"... underscores the undisciplined, uncontrolled nature of Mr. Trump’s post-presidency just 10 days into his third campaign for the White House. A handful of Republicans, including at least one close ally of Mr. Trump’s, castigated him over meeting both Mr. Fuentes and Mr. West.... Mr. Fuentes... is best known for running a white nationalist youth organization known as America First, whose adherents call themselves groypers or the Groyper Army. In the wake of Mr. Trump’s defeat in 2020, Mr. Fuentes and the groypers were involved in a series of public events supporting the former president. At a so-called 'Stop the Steal' rally in Washington in November 2020, Mr. Fuentes urged his followers to 'storm every state capitol until Jan. 20, 2021, until President Trump is inaugurated for four more years.'... On Jan. 6, 2021, Mr. Fuentes led a large group of groypers to the Capitol where they rallied outside in support of Mr. Trump. The next day, Mr. Fuentes wrote on Twitter that the assault on the Capitol was 'awesome and I’m not going to pretend it wasn’t.'"
Writes Maggie Haberman, in "Trump’s Latest Dinner Guest: Nick Fuentes, White Supremacist/The former president’s table for four at Mar-a-Lago on Tuesday also included Kanye West, whose antisemitic statements have made him an entertainment-industry outcast" (NYT).
Haberman never explains the term "groypers," which I don't remember seeing before. There's a Wikipedia article "Groypers":
Groypers are named after a cartoon amphibian named "Groyper", which is a variant of the Internet meme Pepe the Frog. Groyper is depicted as a rotund, green, frog-like creature, often in a sitting position with its chin resting on interlocked fingers....In 2018, a group of computer scientists studying hateful speech on Twitter observed the Groyper image being used frequently in account avatars among the accounts identified as "hateful" in their dataset.... [T]hey detected that the users were not "lone wolves" and the individuals could be identified as a community with a high network centrality....
Followers of Nick Fuentes began to be known as Groypers beginning in 2019. Fuentes' followers are also sometimes called "Nickers."...
I blogged yesterday about Trump's hard-to-believe assertion that he knew "nothing" about Fuentes, that Fuentes was just "a guest" that came along with Kanye West. I see from Haberman's article that Trump went on to make another statements. Here it is, on Truth:
Ye, formerly known as Kanye West, was asking me for advice concerning some of his difficulties, in particular having to do with his business. We also discussed, to a lesser extent, politics, where I told him he should definitely not run for President, “any voters you may have should vote for TRUMP.” Anyway, we got along great, he expressed no anti-Semitism, & I appreciated all of the nice things he said about me on “Tucker Carlson.” Why wouldn’t I agree to meet? Also, I didn’t know Nick Fuentes.
Also, I didn’t know Nick Fuentes — just an afterthought. I guess there are Trump diehards who accept that statement, but come on? Who believes that? I guess it depends on the meaning of "know." He didn't say I've never heard of him or I didn't know anything about him. "I didn't know" him means I'd never met him personally. Completely 100% true.
But if you belief that, the assertion is utterly meaningless as an explanation for why he had dinner with him. If he knew about him, he wasn't just Ye's plus-one.
Posts
151 comments:
You should be able to have dinner with anybody.
To use soccer terminology, looks like another own goal. I don’t expect Donald Trump to know who Fuentes is, but with his wealth I expect him to have a trusted advisor who can explain to Ye that Mr. Fuentes is politically unwelcome -/ snd Ye, too, for that matter.
Usually Maggie Haberman has to reach way beyond the rational to make her extremist points. It’s a mistake for Trump to give her material that lets her sound like a normal individual.
You should be able to be criticized for whomever you have dinner with.
If you want to be President, you have to meet a higher standard than what people in general are allowed to do.
I'm going to assume Trump did this quite intentionally and wants to use Fuentes — with deniability — to signal to right-wing extremists that they should invest their hopes in him.
It's perfect signaling by Trump to his right wing fanboys. They know who Fuentes is, approve of this, and love it when the Donald agitates the press.
f you want to be President, you have to meet a higher standard than what people in general are allowed to do.
Translation: Women aren't rational.
Explain what your higher standard is. Mine seems to me to be higher. Talk to enemies.
Right now I'm listening to Maurice Dobb Soviet Economic Development since 1917 part 2"
Does that make me a communist? How does higher standard apply here.
I'd cook dinner for Hardin and Howard so I could listen to them talk it out. They'd get a good dinner, and I'd get some entertainment and find out who would throw rocks at them for having dinner with each other.
If either of them decides to attempt a run at the oval office, I suspect we'll know on this forum. I note that as the more palpably normie presentation of RDS gains strength, Trump talks and lives further out toward the fringe with his appeals for loyalty. This is something I watch, along with the highly credible news sources our host shares with us here.
Before the 2024 cagematch gets going in earnest, I suspect these sources will make an effort to give life to propping up Trump v RDS for the same reasons the DNC puts money into the fringiest GOP candidates in the primary season. And the beat goes on...
"If you want to be president, you have to meet a higher standard..."
Ann. Really? I
This dinner was a mistake and makes no sense, given his goal. Trump needs to entice independents and moderates, which comprise a much much larger voting block than any extremist block. This dinner cuts against that.
"If you want to be President, you have to meet a higher standard than what people in general are allowed to do."
Probably a true statement until Brandon came along. In his case the only thing he was required to do was to not be Trump. Something similar could have been said about becoming a senator until Fetterman was needed to maintain Democrat control of the senate. Now one can even be an incoherent, brain damaged non-communicator and be a member of "the worlds greatest deliberative body." Or even POTUS for that matter.
Am I the only one who finds Ann particularly cute when she pretends that the same standards apply equally to both Republicans and Democrats?
"If you want to be president, you have to meet a higher standard..."
But it's OK to meet with and seek Al Sharpton's approval...right?
It's OK to attend Reverend Wright's church of course.
Perfectly fine to endorse the BLM and invite them to the White House.
Cruel neutrality doesn't appear to be all that neutral.
2008: Sure, Obama had some relationship with Bill Ayers, but it apparently wasn't a close relationship. Whew. In 2016, only one candidate had an event cancelled because of threats of violence. The candidate was Trump, and Ayers had something to do with it.
Fuentes said nice things about Trump and is an ardent election denier. In Trump’s mind that is all he needs to hear. If Charles Manson had complimented Trump the. Trump would have discounted or justified Manson’s evilness.
The minds of Trump and the Trumptards is a wonder. If you are a racist, anti-Semitic, Holocaust denying BU attending douche but you say nice things about Trump you are misunderstood, but if you supported John McCain then get the hell out! I am unclear on how that math gets one to victory.
Mark said...
It's perfect signaling by Trump to his right wing fanboys. They know who Fuentes is, approve of this, and love it when the Donald agitates the press.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ahh, another dog whistle to which our Leftist friends are so keenly attuned. Especially when it involves some joker no one has ever heard of.
I'd be curious to know how many "right wing fanboys" there are. 74,223,369?
I'm waiting for a signal to pussy-grabbers.
Hardin is correct. This dinner was equivalent to the Yalta conference, the Munich agreement and the Helsinki accords all rolled into one with Trump driving the car with a free spinning plastic wheel. The horn works!
I read many things in order to know how people I disagree with think. I'm surprised, Althouse, that you would lean toward restricting discussion with the unseemly.
Did Fuentes really state anything denying the holocaust? That is now his main label as is being used to attack Trump. I can t find it.
Althouse uses “right wing extremist”. Fine. We’re used the that cliche. But that’s not why they are propping this guy up.
They wan to link Tump to the new fake wave of anti-semitism.
But seriously. Did Fuentes ever say the Holocaust never happened?
So, we’re starting out the 2024 campaign with the usual Hate Whitey and Hate Men foundation as a given. And, you’re a Nazi if you won’t eat that shit.
Screw that.
I didn't know who Nick Fuentes was so I looked him up. He does appear more extreme than might be desirable for a dinner guest. If I hadn't looked him up and had just read a news article calling him a white nationalist or supremacist it wouldn't even register with me because those terms have become almost meaningless. They've been used to describe people who say things like "all lives matter" or who want better border control.
I'm not surprised Trump met with him. From his point of view, the man probably was not a physical threat. Fuentes would not be able to change Trump's view on anything. If he's not a physical or mental threat and he's a friend of Ye's, why not meet with him? Politicians are worried about the optics of the thing. Maybe Trump should worry about that, but he still thinks like a business man and not like a politician.
I am still trying to figure out what black Kanye West is doing hanging out with white-supremacist Nick Fuentes.
What a sad statement that we expect our politicians to be so cloistered from the rabble that it’s considered irresponsible for Trump let a friend bring a guest to dinner.
Ann Althouse said...
If you want to be President, you have to meet a higher standard than what people in general are allowed to do.
I'm going to assume Trump did this quite intentionally and wants to use Fuentes — with deniability — to signal to right-wing extremists that they should invest their hopes in him.
This person voted for a person that met with Louis Farrakhan.
She also voted for a person that met with Richard Epstein and several people that met with Harvey Weinstein.
Ann knowingly voted for Bill Clinton knowing he was a rapist.
It is so transparent what is going on here.
Ann is so enamored with the NYT's and the people that write it that she accepts the premise of this story with zero self reflection.
I wonder who Ann has met with in the past? I bet some of her fellow professors had some bad thoughts.
Maybe we should judge Ann for everything said by a University of Wisconsin Professor at any point? I am sure she met with almost all of them and associated with them at some point.
And Obama is so dreamy that Ann could never apply this standard to him.
“If you want to be President, you have to meet a higher standard.”
*stunned silence*
*looks at anything and everything ever done by Biden*
*shakes head in disbelief*
Ann Althouse said...
"If you want to be President, you have to meet a higher standard than what people in general are allowed to do."
Practiced more in the breach than in actuality. Wouldn't you have wanted to be invited to the Clintons post presidency dinner parties where you could meet the Epsteins? Or the Obama. And meet the Ayers?
I'm going to assume Trump did this quite intentionally and wants to use Fuentes — with deniability — to signal to right-wing extremists that they should invest their hopes in him."
Or maybe. Like the Black Panthers at an upper east side New York dinner party you just wanted to see up close and personal what black anger looked like.
You have to understand. There are , like nazis in America, not enough white supremists in the country to make a voting demographic. They're more of an interesting oddity.
Obama used to hang around with some dicey characters. People here held it against him, but his supporters said it was irrelevant. There's a double standard when it comes to double standards....I would fault Trump not on his outreach towards Fuentes, but his lack of outreach towards people like Pence and DeSantis. I don't particularly want Trump to fade away, but maybe he should turn off the blinking neon signs.
Annie C. said...
I am still trying to figure out what black Kanye West is doing hanging out with white-supremacist Nick Fuentes.
The NYT said Nick Fuentes is a white supremacist and that is enough for Ann and really for a whole cast of Never Trump class conscious jerks who all shit strawberry ice cream.
They are just better people than Trump supporters.
They will constantly tell you so.
No further thought needed.
Achilles.
I think that our esteemed hostess is laboring under the delusion that the demographic not in the immediate vicinity of a university town is rife with racist antisemite types. That is the picture often painted of the south. Where, in fact , you'll more likely meet more white supremeists in Lake County Illinois than in Macon County Georgia. Even then, for the left, an alarmingly small number.
Joe knows and shakes hands with Pee Doughs
Ye wants to be Man-baby's VP.
LOL. Crikey - we can just hand the keys over to the Corruptocrats right now.
Gusty Winds (Elon Musk Fanboy) said...
Did Fuentes really state anything denying the holocaust? That is now his main label as is being used to attack Trump. I can t find it.
He has said some pretty edgy things apparently.
He has a tribal orientation to his thinking that matches some on this board.
I don't agree with the focus of most of these quotes. He is focusing on the wrong problems.
I can see why Ye likes him. They are both too tribally oriented.
My tinfoil hat was a rip-off.
Despite my full right-wing nutcase credentials, I have never heard of Nick Fuentes or "groypers."
Why have my right-wing sources been letting me down for so long?
These 2 posts on Nick Fuentes are the first I've ever heard of him. Never heard of "Groypers" before either. Everything I know about him I learned here.
I have to wonder, though, is Nick Fuentes an FBI asset?
This "Groyper" business makes me suspicious. It's so close to Pepe the frog. Sounds like something the FBI would come up with to monitor online activity and perhaps more.
if Chinese are watching they would call this >>>
The Historical Event- aka Hongmen Banquet (Feast at Hongmen Gate)
The Historical Event- Hongmen Banquet (Feast at Hongmen Gate)
I'm going to assume Trump did this quite intentionally and wants to use Fuentes — with deniability — to signal to right-wing extremists that they should invest their hopes in him.
Trump is not a political extremist. His personality is somewhat extreme, so that nice liberal White women are terrified of him.
Althouse uses “right wing extremist”...
Yeah, pretty common to see.
But can anyone give me a list of "left wing" extremists? There are plenty that meet MY definition. But I'm looking for a list of those so labeled by, say, MSNBC, CNN, NYT or WaPo.
I thought USA Thanksgiving Tradition to include unwanted guests arriving to disrupt tranquility and family >>> otherwise why all the stories about how to etc.?
It would be interesting to see a how to Nick Fuentes story!
Obama had Al Sharpton in the White House over 80 times. THAT disgusted me, and many others. Do you think THEY care?? I don't care who Trump has over his house when he isn't the president.
The larger problem is that Trump is out of adults.
Yeah - the Clintons are worse than Trump - of course. That goes without saying. And yes- I find it head scratching how anyone could vote for a Clinton at this stage. However- A Trump will get people to vote for a Clinton. or a Biden.
We all want some of Trump's policies - but without the dick-stepper.
Rh -
We all know you hate women - so we aren't really dazzled by your take.
Ann is right when she states: "If you want to be President, you have to meet a higher standard[...]
It's especially true for all R's. Democrats are allowed to screw up any moral standard - but they are not being watched and hounded. Ask Crook Biden.
Now show us the White House visitor lists from Barack Obama and Joe Biden. Please. It would be so enlightening.
Trump could be spending his time maturing and surrounding himself with the best people. Instead his paranoia has pushed most of his former supporters away. Candace Owens the latest. She's not an insider, either. Not all his fault - but much of it is.
Realty.
When the black racist and the white racist show up for dinner, even Donald Trump finds the energy to distance himself from them. Althouse’s dopey commenters, not so much.
I don't really care about this because I have given up on Trump, but I completely agree with Althouse on this. Trump is not looking at why he lost in 2018, 2020, 2021, and 2022. He just keeps being Trump: undisciplined, willful, and hucksterish. It hasn't worked since 2016, when he beat the most unpopular woman in the USA in the electoral college, but not the popular vote.
Trump is a great vote-getter, but he is an even greater vote-getter for the awful, disgusting, corrupt Democrats. Our country circles the basin while Trump dines with Kanye and Fuentes--one crazy, the other goofy.
Great.
Well it does have the advantage of keeping "extremists" in the voting booth rather than out doing their version of Antifa electioneering. I'm only curious about the probability of Fuentes being one of those FBI confidential human sources that we sometimes hear about. It would sure explain the high visibility of negative coverage.
Clearly there is a huge double-standard in this area, but Trump (or any Republican pol) needs to plan for that. Too often he doesn't.
Bob Boyd - Interesting take.
I’m just sick of Trump’s drama.
He continually hands material to the Left. They were just screaming about this topic on MSNBC.
This kind of stuff is why Trump can’t win in 2024.
It should not be shocking that NY Times readers know significantly more about Nick Fuentes that most Republicans do.
@PB, @Achilles, if we start with the observation that Althouse is demonstrably not a dim light bulb, but that — like many other millions of voters — the media know precisely which buttons to push (and precisely how hard to push them) to gin up their daily dose of Trump hatred. I do not want to spend the next one year, eleven months, and two weeks defending Donald Trump’s misjudgments. I want to spend the next one year, eleven months, and two weeks pounding on Democrat corruption, Joe Biden misgovernance and crappy economic policy, and news media bullshit. I have not seen Trump doing any of this, except news media bullshit and only when it applied precisely to him, but it needs to be done, and we need a leader who can organize us into a single, multimillion person, voice that cannot be ignored or brushed aside. We need a leader who will make Biden sorry he ever dreamed of running for President, who will make Fetterman sorry the stroke didn’t kill him, who will force Fauci to admit that he blocked effective, low-cost, low-risk COVID-19 treatments so he could collect royalties on dangerous, ineffective vaccines.
That’s my position. You be you.
Perhaps Trump is doing DeSantis a huge favor by making himself the poopy-diaper. The Joy Behar-MSNBC left love the smell of a poopy diaper.
why would this be shocking, if you don't know by now you probably still think this fella is president. You know "Jews better get their act together and appreciate what they have in Isael before it's too late" JEWS said don't need no JEWSPLAINING from that guy who associates with white nationalists and anti-semites."People in this country no longer love Israel he says, Christians love Israel more than Jews in this country. My Jewish relatives think differently, oh well just more drama. See it's in the news that's the goal. That fella never was or would be a standard bearer for highest office in the land, thats old news.
If you want to be President, you have to meet a higher standard than what people in general are allowed to do.
In theory, but a Dem candidate will be always meet the standard (Hunter Biden's laptop) and the Republican will always be called Hitler.
I guess there are Trump diehards who accept that statement, but come on? Who believes that? I guess it depends on the meaning of "know."
I, Mike Sylwester, accept and believe that Trump did not know Fuentes.
Ann, does that make me a "Trump diehard"?
Blogger Gusty Winds (Elon Musk Fanboy) said...
Did Fuentes really state anything denying the holocaust? That is now his main label as is being used to attack Trump. I can t find it.
Althouse uses “right wing extremist”. Fine. We’re used the that cliche. But that’s not why they are propping this guy up.
They wan to link Tump to the new fake wave of anti-semitism.
But seriously. Did Fuentes ever say the Holocaust never happened?
11/26/22, 7:04 AM
————
https://twitter.com/calebjhull/status/1189594371030695937?s=61&t=J-XbkWU8mUQM8_JTNd6KEQ
There was no "assault" on the Capitol. Is Fuentes part of a Whitmer plot to sustain the handmade tale and excuse Pelosi and "heros" aborting and endangering unarmed people, forcing a riot, and violating their civil rights in progress?
Rabid diversity (e.g. racism, sexism, ageism) is a phenomenon of authoritarian character.
Does Haberman call Fuentes a "Holocaust denier" in her article.
In a previous thread yesterday, I commented that I searched the Internet to find exactly what Fuentes ever said in his life that should make me think he is a "Holocaust denier".
I could not find that information anywhere on the Internet.
Blogger Dave Begley said...I’m just sick of Trump’s drama...He continually hands material to the Left. They were just screaming about this topic on MSNBC...This kind of stuff is why Trump can’t win in 2024.
Mr. Begley. I enjoy your comments a presence here, and agree with you mostly. Last week when I was searching for Althouse's opposition to Texas vs. PA, I was looking through the comments.
On her post announcing that the Supreme Court had refused to hear the case you commented
This is the end of the Republic. A Republican will never be able to win the Presidency again. What has changed?? NOTHING.
I think it's important to remember that, even if you are jumping quickly on the Ron DeSantis is our savior ship. If it wasn't for the coordinated, targeted absentee ballot voter fraud, Trump would rightfully be in the White House today, and Putin would not be in Ukraine.
They exhaust us on purpose and they just did it again right in front of our tired eyes in Maricopa County. To think DeSantis has a chance in AZ, MI, WI, and PA with the current absentee fraud, ballot harvesting, and post election ballot curing is nothing more than wishful thinking.
Unless DeSantis appeases the corrupt establishment (no, I do not believe he is a part of it)...he will suffer the same fate to some corrupt liberal opponent like Gavin Newsome.
MSNBC is a pure propaganda network. They lie about Trump, and everything else. They will do the same to DeSantis. Perhaps he is the next young leader. But Trump is still needed in the fight. Making him walk the plank now it to what I understand to be your own, and the rest of our resisting detriment.
Left-wing ideology.
Blogger MattJ said...
It should not be shocking that NY Times readers know significantly more about Nick Fuentes that most Republicans do.
Also, they much that isn't true about such people. I also wonder a bit about his FBI connections, if any.
Ann, since you yourself know so much about Fuentes, could you please explain to us why he is called a "Holocaust denier"?
I myself have not been able to find the explanation, but you seem to be very well informed about him.
Gusty Winds (Elon Musk Fanboy) at 7:04 AM
Did Fuentes really state anything denying the holocaust? ... But seriously. Did Fuentes ever say the Holocaust never happened?
It's a mystery to me too!
Why are we all supposed to nod approvingly when Fuentes is called a "Holocaust denier"?
I don't get it! What did Fuentes say about the Holocaust ?????
Boatbuilder.
Yeah. Me neither. How important can he be?
Lloyd W. Robertson at 6:27 AM
Obama had some relationship with Bill Ayers
Since Obama wanted to be President, he should have been held to a higher standard.
Clearly there is a huge double-standard in this area, but Trump (or any Republican pol) needs to plan for that. Too often he doesn't.
@exhelodrvr1, +1
Newsom, meanwhile, is knuckling under to the mob-Boss Bidens.
That's how it is done, folks.
If you want to be President, you have to meet a higher standard than what people in general are allowed to do.
This comment is so absurd and ignorant. Has it ever been true? Maybe early in US history. Today you’ll go nowhere politically if you don’t demonstrate you’re willing to play ball…
I'm going to assume Trump did this quite intentionally and wants to use Fuentes — with deniability — to signal to right-wing extremists that they should invest their hopes in him.
Dangerously close to the Althouse sin of I know what’s thinking.
Alternative theories- Trump ALWAYS doubles down on what his critics say he shouldn’t do. Also, Ye is a friend and friends don’t abandon their friends to maintain political viability, especially viability as judged by their critics…
Couple days ago I saw a video of Ye lamenting his cancellation, saying something like, 'Yesterday I was a billionaire and today I can't use my Apple Pay.'
Next thing you know, Ye shows up with an FBI CI poster child and takes out the guy the FBI has been trying to take out since 2016. Too perfect.
It's a totally legit criticism that Trump could've and should've prevented this. He seemingly walked right into a haymaker. I wonder why? I wonder who, if anyone, advised Trump to let Fuentes in?
I also wonder why Trump didn't try to spin it that he was encouraging a black leader's befriending of a white racist in the interest of better race relations.
Gusty Winds..
To think DeSantis has a chance in AZ, MI, WI, and PA with the current absentee fraud, ballot harvesting, and post election ballot curing is nothing more than wishful thinking....
How and why would Trump fare any better?
Presidents hear a lot of names. How many of them do they remember and correctly associate with more information about them? Judging by Biden, not many. It's like that on the internet. I'd heard the name "Nick Fuentes" somewhere, but couldn't tell you anything about the guy. From what I read today, he definitely is anti-Semitic as well as anti-a-lot-of-other-groups. He's been called a Holocaust denier, but Holocaust mocker may be a more accurate description. Maybe that's worse. I doubt Trump has or feels any need to signal anything to Fuentes's tiny group and others like it.
Bob Boyd - You're simply not understanding Trump's 3-D chess move. Never-mind that probably NO-one is advising Trump because he has pushed everyone out the door. (all those icky CoC Ryan-Jebs) Now the nutters and the FBI agents can infiltrate the increasingly paranoid and frustrated lasher-outer with ease.
I party feel bad for him - and yet I'm also exhausted. It's time to move on. Unless people want more losing. His blind faith supporters seem to enjoy all the losing.
“Yes, but Trump!” = “Yes, but Biden”
Meanwhile, independents ask “There’s got to be another choice out there!”
AMDG,
I don't know if you're familiar with TVTropes, but "racist, anti-Semitic, Holocaust denying BU attending douche" is a wonderful example of "Arson, Murder, and Jaywalking."
BU attending? Cracking up here.
@ Hook
What's a CoC?
AMDG, thanks for your convincing link about Fuentes' Holocaust denial.
But the Big O can sit in Rev. Wright's church and listen to him blaming whitey for everything for years and that's OK.
But in general, ex-president's should have more discipline, and it's the same issue I had with Trump's personnel choices; they were almost uniformly terrible...
"The source familiar with the dinner conversation said the dinner grew heated after Ye — who announced another run for president in 2024 on Thursday — asked Trump to be his running mate. Trump then began insulting Ye’s ex-wife, Kim Kardashian, according to the source and a video that Ye posted to Twitter on Thanksgiving Day recounting the dinner."
wow - flinging insults in the inner circle, to get ahead. Insult the Ye's ex-wife. Trumpian genius.
Kanye abandoned Trump when the kitchen got too hot circa 2016 era. Now Kanye is back, after saying some distasteful anti-Jewish garbage.
Why would Trump think it's a good idea to talk to this guy? Invite him to dinner? Oh - Kanye's been so amazingly loyal. *pfffft.*
Again - must be more of that 3-D chess.
Annie C said: "I am still trying to figure out what noted wealthy black public figure Kanye West is doing hanging out with white-supremacist Nick Fuentes."
Which is the more serious offense? Ye, in disfavor now because of his alleged anti-Semitic views, or Trump, because he's running? It was a tough call to make for an editor, missing the opportunity to pile on Ye for his further transgressions, forsaking his race by hanging out with known White Supremecists (in NYT scare quotes), but where Trump is involved, well the choices are clear. Nobody mentions Ye!
It has always seemed odd to me how the Trump haters seem so willing to swallow whatever amplified, mis-cast quotes of what Trump says (sometimes outright lies, the list being too long to mention) at broadcast face value. Astonishing, how easily gamed people can be. Are you really 'sick of Trump', or are you really just sick of the relentless, determined nature of the negative coverage, so unfairly, that you're worn down into a weary acceptance of its faux-validity? Do you wishfully think that mindset will go away if Trump does?
'Not even 10 days into the race....... Dude, the election is 2 years away! Puh-leeze.
Here is an example of Fuentes being a dick
Trump's cucks will like, tho.
@ Hook
Or...
Trump, having no other advisors, called Ryan and Jeb and said, "Ye's here for dinner, but he brought some guy named Nick Fuentes with him. They're out on the stoop right now. What do you think?"
And Jeb said, "Fuck you, Donald Trump! I hate you forever!" and hung up.
But Ryan said, Nick? He's cool. Oh and Mitt said to tell you he still wants to be your Secretary of State if you win, so..."
I'm completely shocked that the NYT's and Maggie Halberman (she used to "Tee it up" for Hillary and Obama) who've been attacking and Lying about Trump almost every day for 6 1/2 years are attacking him again.
yes, see my shocked face?
Anyway, Trump was POTUS For 4 years. He gave us peace and prosperity. But if want to think he's unfit now because he had dinner with Ye and some guy called Nick Fuentes. Then go for it.
This will have zero impact, because the D's, the Never-Trumpers, and leftists been implying or explicitly calling Trump a Nazi for 6 1/2 years. And when haven't been calling him that, they've been calling him a "Russian Agent" "Putin's Cockholster" "Traitor" "Insurrectionist" "QA supporter" "White Supremist" etc. etc. etc.
As for "Trump gave them ammunition" - what a childish and false way of looking at the situation. It implies the MSM and Trump's enemies are somehow Good faith actors who only attack Trump when there's some reasonable basis to attack him. FALSE. THey hate Trump, they want to destroy him and they don't need "ammo" or an "Opening".
If they didn't have this dinnner, the NTY and Halberman would be attacking Trump over something else. They are out to WIN baby. By any means neccessary. And some cuckservatives with their "Gosh, gee whiz, Trump shouldn't have given them ammo" are simply pathetic. Good God, even Rod Dreher has stopped writing this weak kneed crap.
BTW, is it ever possible for you fucking "Moderates" and GOP establishment types to stop attacking Trump? If you think De Santis is the best candidate then say why. You characters are ALWAYS trying to help out the D's and start a Republican civil war.
Quit helping the Democrats and giving Joe Biden another 4 years. But yeah, I know. You just can't help yourself. Like Mitt Romney, you hate Trump more than the D's, but somehow, someway, you're still a TRUE REPUBLICAN.
If you’re wondering what kind of person has “open anti-semite” and “open racist” on their Donald Trump 13-Dimensional-Chess Bingo Card, you’ve come to the right place.
You should be able to have dinner with anybody.
Cannibals excepted.
Rcocean - Is it ever possible for Ever-Trumpers to wake up? Why are you all so sensitive and unable to admit when Trump steps on his own dick?
We are not even talking about DeSantis in this thread - or any other potential rival to King Trump.
rhhardin
Don’t be absurd. Listening to a podcast or video about Soviets is not the same as sitting down to dinner with a communist. If you were running for president and were politically far left of center and having dinner with a communist people would talk. And they should because it might mean you harbor leftist beliefs.
Second, please stop with the misogynistic comments. You seem to have a lot of them, which makes me wonder why you read this blog.
Earnest Prole - Not everyone here.
Certainly true at the standard Trump-tree club/ Trump-Forever fan-boi sites, however.
Bob Boyd -
It's plausible! hahahaha
Ann Althouse said...
If you want to be President, you have to meet a higher standard than what people in general are allowed to do.
*********
OK. Now apply that higher standard to Joe and Hunter. And Bill Clinton. And Hillary.
We haven't seen much of that from you over the years.
AMDG
Thanks for the link
Trump had no idea who he was!
That's just more Trumpian genius we fail to understand.
Funny how Althouse conveniently forgets Barack hanging out with Louis Farrakhan..........
"Even taking at face value Mr. Trump’s protestation that he knew nothing of [Nick] Fuentes, the apparent ease with which Mr. Fuentes arrived at the home of [the] former president..."
"... underscores the undisciplined, uncontrolled nature of Mr. Trump’s post-presidency just 10 days into his third campaign for the White House."
Who would read past this sentence?
Haberman is the almond milk of columnists.
April is stealing my material without attribution.
Blogger Hunter Biden's tax payer funded Hooker said...
Blah blah blah
Trump's cucks will like, tho...
Rc Ocean
Obscure blog posts are not going to take out Trump. Trump will take out Trump.
No longer matters what Trump accomplished. He didn't understand the power of the left... and now he is in bed with the nutters because no one of substance wants to be around him. His own daughter doesn't want to deal with the hot mess he creates for himself. It used to be about the nation - now it's all about Trump and his ego.
Now Now Howard - You must admit that Trump is still better than all the crooks on team D.
Problem is a mired-down Trump will have little power to overcome the mob.
I was raised to be dubious of accusations based on personal friendship with open communists and remain dubious of the utility of making anyone persona non grata because they have stupid opinions. I might be more accepting of the concept if people like the Reverend Farrakhan and Al Sharpton (who is directly responsible for anti-Jewish riots and arson on two occasions) were treated the same way we are told we should treat Fuentes. But if politicians actively seek their blessing today, I say let Fuentes have dinner with Trump.
YE wants to be Trump's VP... So Trump insults YE's ex-wife.
Up next on "The Young, the Old and The Desperate - As Mar-A-Lago Turns"
Will Trump apologize for insulting YE's ex wife, a Kardashian? Will YE forgive Trump if he does? Will Trump select YE to be his forever-strong and loyal running mate? Will Kim Kardashian step in and calm the storm between these two strong men!?... Will the Holocaust Denier (possible FBI kook) have enough material for his book? Will Joy Behar lose her mind on The View...
Stay tuned....
Buried the lede.
"Even taking at face value Mr. Trump’s protestation that he knew nothing of [Nick] Fuentes, the apparent ease with which Mr. Fuentes arrived at the home of [the] former president..."
The story begins and ends with the total preposterousness of Trump’s “protestation that he knew nothing of Fuentes.” There’s no point in debating that. Trump is lying. So let’s examine why he felt the need to lie. Why he felt he could get away with the lie. Why Trump fans might credulously fall for the lie. Anything else is foolishness, built on lies.
It’s toxic, to dance around Trump’s lie that he knew nothing about Nick Fuentes. Trump is lying. Trump needs to answer a cross-examination-level press inquiry on how Nick Fuentes got to join a private dinner at Mar A Lago with Trump and Kanye West. When Trump claims he didn’t know who Fuentes was. FOIA the Secret Service, and put them under oath.
Althouse Blog Commissar (self-appointed): "Here is an example of Fuentes being a dick
Trump's cucks will like, tho."
Prior to this I'm sure most of us had never heard of this 24 year old who is basically a nobody and appears to be trying to leverage a Ye relationship for greater exposure. Wow, shocker.
As predicted, Althouse Blog Commissar (self-appointed) decides today is a great day to go ALL IN on the leftist BS that Trump and anyone who supports his policies are all anti-Semites.
Because of course you are. You can't help yourself. You have been given your directives and you will follow them precisely as directed.
Meanwhile, as noted above, your GOPe heroes are already selling us out on multiple key policy fronts while you remain distracted by this nothingburger that will in no way impact how the increasing working class component of the republican base voters see Trump.
Next up for the OrangeManBad-deranged, if you want a real challenge for any potential 2024 matchup between any democratical and Ron DeSantis: Explain away DeSantis' strong support for handing obama Fast Track Authority (via the Trade Promotion Authority vote) for the Trans Pacific Partnership (TPP) which even the democraticals couldn't stomach because it meant the obvious and inevitable loss of millions more jobs in the US, given the TPP was just NAFTA on steroids.
But oh, it gets even worse politically for that "strong defender of our values" Ron DeSantis who basically followed Paul Ryan and John Boehner around like a puppy dog on Trade and economic policy: Given how bad the TPP (and TTIP, but whose counting?) was going to be, a bill was put together to try and mitigate the damage to US workers called the Trade Adjustment Assistance (TAA). Guess who voted against that? The Great and Powerful Oz...DeSantis.
I'm sure that's going to play just fantastically well in those midwest industrial states that were hollowed out completely by our GOPe-beloved globalist "betters".
Now after your done with that question, why don't you have a whack at that other question that's been asked almost daily for months now: How is it DeSantis is going to deliver all the policies we supposedly all support (wink wink, eh Althouse Blog Commissar (self-appointed)?) that Trump was not able to push thru when ALL of DeSantis' biggest backers and GOPe led advisor team OPPOSE each and every one of those policies.
Go ahead. Spin away.
At present the operating theory seems to be that DeSantis will pocket $1.5B to $2B for a combined primary and general election campaign and then turn around and stick a knife in the back of all these globalist supporters.
Hmmm, that doesn't strike me as particularly compelling, though it might be enough to get Earnest Prole on board. I suppose that might be why no one has even attempted to offer up an explanation for how that will work.
It also partially explains why the commentary from the "true" and "principled" republicans often times resembles an MSNBC panel of talking head all-stars.
It goes without saying that our Althouse Blog Commissar (self-appointed) didn't even know DeSantis had voted that way because, well, it would have taken about 30 seconds of research, and "research" is a four-letter word for some people, which is also wrong, which makes it perfect.
Howard: "April is stealing my material without attribution.
Blogger Hunter Biden's tax payer funded Hooker said...
Blah blah blah
Althouse Blog Commissar (self-admitted): "Now Now Howard - You must admit that Trump is still better than all the crooks on team D.
Problem is a mired-down Trump will have little power to overcome the mob."
Don't blame Howard for recognizing his operational ally. The venn diagram overlap between the far left/dems and the BadOrangeMan crew is becoming ever more a pure overlap.
Althouse Blog Commissar (self-appointed), would you like for me to search for and forward a discount coupon for David French's podcasts to you for Christmas?
Althouse Blog Commissar: "Rc Ocean
Obscure blog posts are not going to take out Trump. Trump will take out Trump."
Then all your problems are solved and all will be right with the world...so why the panicked claims that Trump will destroy the party?
Your simultaneous and contradictory claims that Trump is both completely washed up with no one decent supporting him (more of your words and thanks btw for your slam on the working classes, very Nicole Wallace of you) AND Trump somehow has the power to destroy the republican party is rather amusing.
See if you can square that circle for us. I'm sure it would be fascinating....but not necessarily in a good way...if you know what I mean.
Althouse Blog Commissar (self-appointed): "AMDG
Thanks for the link
Trump had no idea who he was!
That's just more Trumpian genius we fail to understand."
Trump doesn't know some very young random guy. For the Althouse Blog Commissar (self-appointed), that sounds impeachable. But for those guys, everything about Trump is impeachable.
Our very own Blog Schiff-ty.
Althouse Blog Commissar (self-appointed): "We are not even talking about DeSantis in this thread - or any other potential rival to King Trump."
Yes, it has been noted you "very strong" DeSantis supporters spend very little time speaking about DeSantis' congressional record and who is backing him now and what that might portend.
It's almost as if you believe you can sleepwalk thru a nominating process, which is why whatever the latest OMG! Did You See What Truuuuuummmmppp Did Today! story of the day is much more preferable.
The Democrats, unlike the Republicans maintain party discipline. When the last time any prominent Democrat tore into Joe Biden? When did Biden or Pelosi ever attack Antifa?
Meanwhile, Lisa Murkey endorsed the Democrat in Alaska. McConnell refused to give the R Senate Candidate in Arizona any significant money, but gave Lisa Murky $6 million to beat another Republican. Romney refused to endorse his Utah Republican Senate teammate, seems he was "friends" with Egg McMuffin, so he stayed neutral. You've had an endless stream of R's attacking Trump for the last six years, and they were prety happy when biden got elected.
Moderate republicans are just democrats who like tax cuts. With them its "Rule or Ruin". The same people smearing trump and saying he will lose in 2024, are perfectly happy with Biden. They just hiding it - for now.
Saw the same behavior from the Republican"Moderates" in California in 1990s. Today all these Calf Republican "Moderates" are either D's (remember Carly Fiona or Meg Whitman?) or they've left the state, or left politics. Their only REAL purpose was to be the "Controlled opposition".
What Gusty Winds said @ 9:32am
Unrepentant Domestic Terrorist Bill Ayers and Bernadette Dohrn helped Obama get his start. He was married by Black Supremacist RACIST Reverend Wright. He marched and hung with RACIST Nation of Islam guy, Louis Farrakhan AND he kissed Reverend Al Sharpton....ANTI SEMITE, RACIST who he held court with in the White House over 50 times. Get over Trump having dinner with an idiot, when Obama fundamentally changed American with those creeps help.
Hooker, you sure like to hear yourself cackle, don't you??
How dare YE!
Hunter Biden's tax payer funded Hooker said...
Gusty Winds..
To think DeSantis has a chance in AZ, MI, WI, and PA with the current absentee fraud, ballot harvesting, and post election ballot curing is nothing more than wishful thinking....
How and why would Trump fare any better?
Trump will get millions more votes than Desantis.
They wont even need to cheat to beat Desantis without the working class voters.
Guess Who's Coming to Dinner (2022 Remake)
Hunter Biden's tax payer funded Hooker said...
Rcocean - Is it ever possible for Ever-Trumpers to wake up? Why are you all so sensitive and unable to admit when Trump steps on his own dick?
We are not even talking about DeSantis in this thread - or any other potential rival to King Trump.
What happened to that 11th commandment?
Oh we already know you are a hypocrite and you don't really care about anything other than your tribe.
"Now Now Howard - You must admit that Trump is still better than all the crooks on team D."
When you're right, you're right: the Dems are not better crooks than Trump.
Trump has not demonstrated any propensity to exercise liberal license in order to indulge diversity [dogma] (e.g. racism), let alone rabid (e.g. DIE). The press and associated experts are prone to conflation, so it's understandable that he would not acknowledge time spent with far-left ideologues by their standards. That said, know your enemy...
Don’t be absurd. Listening to a podcast or video about Soviets is not the same as sitting down to dinner with a communist.
Dobb was a communist, explaining what economic problems faced the Soviet Union and how it solved them.
April: you called him out by name and Drago pooped out of the woodwork
Credit 45 one thing. Imagine the GOP outrage if he was still mulling his announcement.
Oh lordie, what fun reading Wendybar, Drago and April’s Adams Apple duking it out over Trump.
Howard, LLR Chuck and the Althouse Blog Commissar (self-appointed) all together iike peas in a pod.
"Unexpectedly".
"...Obama fundamentally changed American (sic) with those creeps help."
Obama didn't "fundamentally change" shit. He was smoother and less obviously a crude thug than his predecessor and successor, but he applied himself to the American project that has been in place since 1945, namely, seeking to achieve American domination of the world by whatever means necessary.
Scott Adams reported somebody observing that the Democrats are America's ex-wife, for aptness.
Russia Collusion Truther and Hillary/FBI Hoax Dossier Inga: "Oh lordie, what fun reading Wendybar, Drago and April’s Adams Apple duking it out over Trump."
This isn't about Trump. Its an argument about realignment that goes back decades and is reaching an inflection point, as it should.
You dont understand that because it requires you to remember things that happened more than 15 minutes ago...so, you're out.
We went from boogabooga to groowpers just like that.
And I didn't even get the memo.
It's perfect signaling by Trump to his right wing fanboys. They know who Fuentes is...
Oh, bullshit. I never heard of the guy before yesterday and I still don't know who he is.
Blogger Hunter Biden's tax payer funded Hooker said...
Gusty Winds..
"How and why would Trump fare any better?
I'm not saying he can. I didn't expect a red wave. I'm not in shock. The voter fraud has settled in. Maricopa???
Trump is a needed voice. So is Ron DeSantis. I love that fucking guy. Now I have to go either or on these two?
Trump will call out the voter fraud and the crazy ways we vote and count in this country. They just did it again in Maricopa. They did. This time in broad desert daylight. DAY OF THE ELECTION. DeSantis know this.
It might be the only thing that paves the way for...Ron Desantis. Good.
Musk just bought Twitter. House goes GOP with investigations in Jan. Trump back on Twitter by then I would guess. Let it play out.
Kicking Trump to the curb now isn't good for Ron DeSantis.
All this back and forth (and back and forth and back and forth) among the same group of usual suspects is getting tiresome. A bit reminiscent of the situation that caused Althouse to shut down comments and then institute the current moderation approach a while ago.
I see Drago finally noticed the return of Chuck (I assume "the" Chuck). Seemed for a while that it had flown under the radar. Another nail in the coffin?
--gpm
Trump will get millions more votes than Desantis.
LOL. hahahahahaha LOL.. OMG - *breathe* the delusion. LOLOLOLOLOL "Millions" hahahahahahahaha
OMH not enough lines of hahahahahaha available.
Forget DeSantis or any other potential nominee. The delusion here that Trump will "get millions" of votes - is level 10 off the charts, on stilts and pumped with steroids.
Trump beat horrid Hillary by 30,000 votes across 3 states... then lost to Biden. (cheating by the left notwithstanding)
Howard - sorry. The Trump-Humper twins get around.
"Trump world is melting-down over Fuentes"
I hope so. What few over-paid sell-outs are stilling clinging to his sinking ship.
Trump had this guy over for Dinner. This is nuclear compared to the lame and private pussy tape.
Althouse Blog Commissar (self-appointed): "Howard - sorry. The Trump-Humper twins get around."
Howard, given the increasing GOPe + dem alliance, why dont you guys just communicate directly so you can coordinate your talking points before posting publicly?
It would be much more efficient.
Althouse Blog Commissar (seld-appointed): "I hope so. What few over-paid sell-outs are stilling clinging to his sinking ship."
Oh, so we're back to Trump has only a "few over-paid sell-outs" still clinging to his supposedly "sinking ship"....
...yet just days ago Trump had the power to destroy the party AND Ron DeSantis (how was never explained, naturally) and just hours ago Trump should just be awarded the nomination because no republican can win anyway.
That dizzying "logic" has led to the inevitable Howard/Inga/Commissar/LLR alliance that has been long predicted.
I just didnt think it would come to full fruition so soon.
The Trump Humper Twin #1 cannot understand unclean impure non-Trump-Humper thoughts and opinions. Roll out the.... Tired false accusations tinged with Trumpian levels of paranoia.
Standard Trump Humper operational procedure from the Tree House Trump-Can-Do-No-Wrong Fuentes corner.
Musk says he’s supporting DeSantis for president in 2024. Drago and Achilles and a few other hangers on are too deep into the cult to feel the earth shifting under their feet. Oh well, it’ll be interesting seeing how these hangers on cope going forward to 2024.
Gusty - I was all in with Trump. Trump keeps making himself more and more insane. I'm just calling him out of it.
Agree with you on Maricopa.
Maggie Haberman is uninterested in who visits with Biden in Delaware, however.
Althouse Blog Commissar (self-appointed): "The Trump Humper Twin #1 cannot understand unclean impure non-Trump-Humper thoughts and opinions."
I understand all of your whiplash-inducing, contradictory and idiotic opinions.
Its just that they are whiplash-inducing, contradictory and idiotic.
I'm guessing thats why Inga and Howard have adopted you as their pet rock. You are a rhetorical kindred spirit to them.
Now, if you were to post fewer whiplash-inducing, contradictory and idiotic things, you would probably get called out less for doing just that. Its a straight forward cause-effect kind of thing.
Good Luck! I'm rooting for you!
Althouse Blog Commissar (self-appointed): "Gusty - I was all in with Trump."
LOL
The self-delusion is off the charts.
I am starting to understand why you continually post such inconsistent and contradictory and invariably wrong things.
rcocean is comoletely right. There are some that cannot accept the political label staring at them in the face.
Russia Collusion Truther and Hillary/FBI Hoax Dossier Dead Ender Inga: "Musk says he’s supporting DeSantis for president in 2024."
That makes sense.
Lifelong democrat voter, tech billionaire, etc.
Musk is not concerned about DeSantis' strong congressional support for TPP, TTIP etc, but those very stances will cost DeSantis dearly amongst the working class, low propensity and new republican voters in the midwest.
Althouse Blog Commissar (self-appointed) remains blissfully unaware of all that because to learn about it would require some uncomfortable "reading and thinkin' 'bout stuff", and who wants to do that when one can sit there and be spoon fed the talking points?
You know Inga, the same way you do.
I will give you this Inga, you routinely post links to articles that actually disprove whaever dumb point you think you are making, but at least you tried.
That's at least a short step up from (head nod - shoulder shrug - wink wink) you know who.......
Rusty: "Boatbuilder.
Yeah. Me neither. How important can he be?"
There is much the dems and their GOPe allies are cooking up and is just around the corner (rail strike, a deal on DACA amnesty, increased funding for the Ukraine-democratical grift machine, winter fuel shortages, continuing record inflation, etc) that our "betters" would like us to not focus upon...and they know just how many rubes out here (present company not excluded) will jump on ANY Trump story of the day to do just that.
Just imagine what story they will launch about Trump after the strong McConnell/Schumer team (the team with the "shared vision") deliver a double/triple dose of republican failure theater at us before January.
It will need to be a good one. I would suspect an indictment.
I'm more disappointed he met with West than with the other guy.
Judas Fucking Priest, I guess this means every thread from now till Jan 2024 will be about Trump vs. Desantis.
Oy vey!
Oh well, I guess it'll keep the dullards from going on an on about Covid, or Trump v. Biden, or Evolution or Abortion or Guns or Climate Change or whatever "Crossfire" topic they usually "battle" about.
Trump humper Fuentes YE army = secret Biden supporters.
Discuss.
Trump had this guy over for dinner.
Yet - the Trump Humper army stays true.
The Memo: Democrats pine for Trump as GOP nominee
Don is good for Biden and leftwing business... and his son in law's Saudi 2 billion in the pocket.
Stay true - Trump Humpers for Biden!
"Members of President Biden’s party are openly pining for Trump to become the 2024 Republican nominee, believing he is just too flawed to win a general election. "
When you're more flawed than Biden? well not really - but the media make big bank when Trump is the discussion.
more...
"I am hoping for Trump’s nomination, ‘cause I think he’s the easiest candidate to beat,” former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean (D) told “The Briefing with Steve Scully” on SiriusXM this week. "
The dems want the fish in the barrel candidate. The fat old inarticulate dick-stepper makes Biden look cool, man.
Oh Look - Trump supporters AND Democrats are on the same page!
Blogger rcocean said...
Oh well, I guess it'll keep the dullards from going on an on about Covid, or Trump v. Biden, or Evolution or Abortion or Guns or Climate Change or whatever "Crossfire" topic they usually "battle" about.
--
Don't forget the always fresh topic protests...
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