"...and most families with a lot of kids are like ours: middle class. Generally speaking, the data indicates that the more income one makes, the fewer children one has. Having a baby roughly every other year for the last decade is... not as expensive as many might think.... Around the country and around the world, people are having fewer children, if they’re having any at all.... The anti-natalists run a wicked good PR game. Even among mothers, the 'wine mom' content is what rules social media: with kids portrayed as tiny dictators and mothers feeling the need to booze or hide in bathrooms in order to make it on a day-to-day, hour-to-hour basis.... Having kids, especially lots of them, is now counter-cultural; it’s so far outside the norm that I’m used to random strangers commenting every time we’re all out in public.... I like to think that, by making not just one or two babies, but by bringing into the world a whole brood, we are doing our part to inject more vitality into it."
From "I Never Wanted Kids. Number Six Is Due In a Few Months. We just outgrew our Honda Odyssey" by Bethany Mandel (Common Sense).
It's a startling breach of etiquette to question a stranger about her childbearing choices, but consider the urge that drives this transcendence of normal politeness and distancing. We need humanity to carry on, even as we depend on private decision-making to make it happen. Unfortunately, we're also conflicted, worried that there will be too many people or — in our least beautiful moments — the wrong kind of people. And so we keep track of women and their childbearing. We always have and we don't seem able to stop, even as many of us would like to believe that childbearing is a woman's individual, personal, private choice.
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NBA and NFL players need to be mentioned when we talk fecundity...not just the billionaires but the multimillionaires. Rock Stars too ....Mick Jagger has 8.
I had 5 because I figured someone would have to pay the taxes to support all the losers.
I am delighted when the young people I work with have children. They are smart and hardworking, despite the reputation of the "generation" they are part of. One of their kids could be the next Norman Borlaug, Thomas Edison, or Nikola Tesla.
Also, each additional child results in production of more CO2, which is plant food and helps to feed my vegan friends.
In my LA neighborhood, there is an astonishing contingent of Orthodox Jews who all seem to have 4 or more children. The vehicle of choice is the Honda Odyssey.
I suspect that there exists some sort of biological mechanism by which humans whose cohort has passed through a demographic funnel (war, pogrom, etc.)respond by reproducing with furious abandon.
Celebrities realize that when your kids are scattered with different mothers in different homes around the country you don't have to worry about buying a bigger SUV.
I can identify with quite a lot of this, except for Bethany's childhood. I especially love when she says she's too wimpy for an epidural and would rather have pain like death. It actually is an accurate description of my thought process, although going drug-free during delivery is usually portrayed as the braver choice.
She makes it all sound easy, and, frankly, she's right. It is, if you release all the social expectations for how to parent.
I'm the oldest of seven children. My father taught at Concordia College in Seward, Nebraska. Most of my childhood friends had fathers who were involved in that college. I would guess that most of those families had at least three children.
For several years, I wrote a blog about my Seward Concordia Neighborhood.
"And so we keep track of women and their childbearing."
Don't we, just? And how could it be otherwise?
Matriolatrous cults and religions exist of course, and in royal Prussia every pregnancy was a matter of bureaucratic concern. Governments left and right in early 20th C Europe pursued pro-natalist policies and rewarded the fecund.
I had three brothers, and my wife had four, but even of those that married only one had many kids--five, with two wives. We have only one child, and of our friends very few have more than two, and grandchildren are scarce though not unknown.
"Unfortunately, we're also conflicted, worried that there will be too many people or — in our least beautiful moments — the wrong kind of people."
I appear to be having my least beautiful life.
"Unfortunately, we're also conflicted, worried that there will be too many people or — in our least beautiful moments — the wrong kind of people."
I think the opposite. It is irresponsible, hiding your head in the sand, not to worry about what kind of people are born. Every child has done the, "what if you could have prevented Hitler from being born?" Is humanity worse off that nowadays many people with Downs Syndrome are aborted? Assume, in a law school kind of way, that amniocentesis could tell a potential mother that her child would lack some limbs or be schizophrenic or--let's really go for the hard case--just be kind of stupid. Would it be one of her "least beautiful moments" if she decided to abort?
How about when Britanny says, "I want to have kids some day so I just can't marry Barry. He's gorgeous but stupid and I can't have a stupid kid?"
Seriously, what good does it do if there are plenty of people, but on the other side of the planet?
When they come here they don't want to be friends with me, they just want to keep to themselves and bring more of their own over.
I say have lots of babies.
From the male point of view, my biggest regret was not getting married and having a large family. I will have to learn to live with this regret. Glad to see Ms. Mandel chose otherwise.
From a progressive perspective the problem with having children is that it foments families.
Yes, the world's population is growing, but only because of a few regions that still like making babies. The most advanced societies today are no longer producing enough offspring to replace themselves.
Part of this is that for so many years, so many people were warning those who are now of child-bearing years that the earth was overpopulated and that having more babies was killing the planet. Ooops. They were wrong. I'm still waiting to see their apologies for what'll follow when there are not enough people to fill jobs, produce goods, or take care of us old people when we are no longer able to do so for ourselves. (PS- we/you will all be one of them some day, if we're lucky enough to live through Biden's term).
Yes, the same people who told us to stop making babies are now stopping us from producing energy from oil or natural gas, which has as a byproduct, producing food, lighting, heat, cooling, medical products, and virtually every product you are looking at in the room you are sitting in.
Still waiting for their apologies.
A young couple in my neighborhood have six children. One day I told the Mom that those kids will benefit their entire lives from having each other. She almost started to cry. Said all she gets is criticism from people who are aghast at their decision.
The only reason people can choose to have 'just one or two' is because it is almost certain they will survive to adulthood.
Also, not many people run family farms anymore where lots of hands are a necessity.
I suspect that there exists some sort of biological mechanism by which humans whose cohort has passed through a demographic funnel (war, pogrom, etc.)respond by reproducing with furious abandon.
And God blessed them. And God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”
Genesis 1:28
Moving to the South stopped all the weird remarks I used to get out West about my 5 kids. We don't even have the most kids in our neighborhood! It's wonderful.
"childbearing is a woman's individual, personal, private choice"
Yet the act is a fundamental requirement for continuation of society.
China has embarked on futile too-late effort to reverse years of enforcing the one child policy. But as the excerpt notes, affluence tends to result in fewer children per couple. Elon is correct (again) that our current population trajectory is unsustainable. Which is ironic because the lefty liar Paul Erlich published The Population Bomb at a time our rising income in America had already eroded our replacement rates.
I’m sure this has nothing to do with progressives flooding the country with 3rd world workers who are eager to make new American anchor babies.
Kids are cheaper once you've raised a babysitter.
The Mandels are indeed Orthodox. Having that many children commits the mother to staying home. Bethany Mandel is a part-time writer. That's just part of the deal for an Orthodox woman, but other women aren't necessarily going to want to make that choice.
Rock stars and athletes get around this by spreading their children out among multiple women.
It's a startling breach of etiquette …
Only if you’re a Normie. Lefties in general don’t much care about etiquette (or am I wrong — do they say “Pardon me” before throwing a Molotov cocktail?). My observation is that feminist Karens have always been willing to stick their noses into the personal and private business of other women.
“ It's a startling breach of etiquette to question a stranger about her childbearing choices”
Yes, it is! Why do people assume it’s OK to do so? I only had 4 kids, but I was treated to comments all the time by complete strangers. The most common one was, “Haven’t you ever heard of birth control?” That one especially bothered me because it assumed my children were unwanted.
+10 West TX!!!
That racist Cannon can KMA.
billionaires and celebrities are the anomaly..."
wait a minute! Wait Just a Doggone MINUTE!
Are they saying, that Most people AREN'T billionaires? Or Pornstars?
Could this Actually be TRUE?
"We need humanity to carry on, even as we depend on private decision-making to make it happen."
Agreed. But the premise that we need humanity to carry on is now contested, by the usual suspects. Therefore, "private decision-making" is also at risk. A paradox of progressivism: celebrating women's bodily autonomy while demanding that it be used for the benefit of planet and climate. At what point will Extinction Rebellion call for all women to have abortions? Will the right to abortion turn into a lefty duty?
We gifted the world five. In upper-middle-class San Francisco-area neighborhoods anything more than two is an indisputable status statement, especially if they attend private school.
Mike Sylwester said...
My father taught at Concordia College in Seward, Nebraska.
I've been through Seward, at least 20 times (and, Seward is NOT a place you just happen to drive through), and i NEVER knew (or thought (or drempt)) that there was a college there.
I actually had to look up Concordia, to see If we were talking about the Same seward.
You learn something Every day
ps. The Cafe on the Square, is Why *i* go there
pps. ok! YES! the cute waitresses at the Cafe are WHY *i* go there
I think the general judgement against large families began when liberal feminists labeled such people as "breeders" (i.e., conservative, religious folk).
Mother of 6. First 4 were about 2 years apart, and then we had an 8 year gap before what the older kids call the expansion pack came along. With the first 4, I got plenty of "you've got your hands full" (yes, but it's a good hand!); when out with the younger 2, people assume they're my only 2, so not so many comments.
I've grown accustomed to most of the commentary, but am always taken aback by the question of whether or not my children were all planned. I've tried to be gracious and say stuff like, "they'e all been hoped for", but the meaner side of me wants to rephrase the question for them in Britney Spears titles. As in, was this 'Hit Me Baby One More Time" or "Oops, I Did It Again"?
That breach of etiquette is very common in the SF Bay Area. My friends in Berkeley with lots of kids (4 and up to 6 or 7) have dealt with it for years. That and the type of car you drive are considered fair game.
Definitely called a Breeder in Colorado.
My mother was one of 9 children.
My father was one of 19 (two sets of twins).
They wanted a large family but were disappointed - two girls 15 years apart.
I have never wanted children. Ever.
“And so we keep track of women and their childbearing. We always have and we don't seem able to stop, even as many of us would like to that childbearing is a woman's individual, personal, private choice.”
Then the resulting children should also be a woman’s individual, personal, private responsibility. It’s like as soon as women have kids they look around and say, “Gosh, now that I have kids, who’s going to take care of them for me? Gimme taxpayer-funded daycare, pre-K, etc. so I never have to see the little brats!”
If they are the poster children, who is their Sally Struthers?
always taken aback by the question of whether or not my children were all planned
Say “No, we just love to fuck” — never fails to shut rude people up.
Joe Smith said...The only reason people can choose to have 'just one or two' is because it is almost certain they will survive to adulthood.
Absolutely and it applied mostly to city families. Farm families were always healthier. My great grand parents had 12, all of whom lived to adulthood.
My grand parents had 10. My parents were city dwellers and had 2 but my mother was 40 when I was born and 43 for my sister. The Depression intervened.
Probably most of us here are boomers, and this was the norm when we were kids. I was one of four, and we were a smaller than average family in my neighborhood. It was great--lots of kids around to play with, and of course back then our parents weren't arrested for letting us run around without supervision.
The people making nasty comments about someone's large number of kids are the same ones who complain about others not wearing masks or using plastic bags.
Safe sanctuary follows with consent implied by her first choice.
I'm the middle child of seven. 5 brothers and 1 sister. My siblings are teachers, truck drivers, delivery drivers, mechanics, carpenters, draftsmen. I'm the only one who became a professional by becoming a lawyer, but I would much rather have a few beers and a barbecue with my working class siblings than almost any of my professional white collar associates.
You know, the personal is the political. Except I think I heard that somewhere, a while ago.
In the next generation the present situation will reverse. A majority of adults will be the children of those who had three or more children, the vast majority will be those who had two or more children and, of course, there will be no adults whose parents had no children. It will be a pronatalist group. Moreover, we'll have passed through a crisis in which those who had no children finally realize that they won't get Social Security unless the "breeders'" children consent to giving less support to their own parents and in which the "breeders'" children realize that their own Mom is not eligible for Social Security and the HINKS (High Income No Kids) haven't saved. With this double realization, things will get a little strange, a little hinky. It would be better if people realized now what the demographic regime they live in really is and changed their behavior to respect those who will provide Social Security. Or will not.
Out of 98 women this generation
15 have no children 0
16 have 1 child 16
33 have two children 66
Total Next Generation 82
22 have three children 66
12 have four or more 48+
Total Next Generation 114+
As this table shows an overwhelming majority of women, 74%, have two or fewer kids in this generation. But the table also shows the majority of adults in the next generation will come from the 34% minority of women in this generation which will have three or more kids, a minority that's getting insulted in this generation. How smart is it to insult your own future, the only one you've got?.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nhsr/nhsr113.pdf p. 10
Talking to a good friend on Sunday. His daughter and husband just had their 6th. She is a surgeon. Hubby, a stay at home dad. They hire a lot of day care. Had a buddy that was one of 8. He said after 4, the older ones take on a lot of tasks of keeping the home. Mother becomes more of a drill sergeant.
The elites have brainwashed the masses, the world is overpopulated and/or too dangerous/uncertain to bring new life into. Its just idiocy what those that consider themselves smart, believe. You would think, after the Dr Paul Erliech debacle, " The Population Bomb" got things so totally wrong. His basic premise. Humans quickly outstrip the earths resources.
Just the stuff that was not imagined, but exists in fully functioning form today, is astounding, yet academics keep predicting the future and miss by light years.
We have plenty of food. Any shortages are created by crooked, or inept governments.
Baby food shortage in the United States? How does this happen in the US, but for a federal govt that has grown to such a level of incompetence, simple things blow up.
Organic food? It can feed the world right? Nope, at least not if it is managed by the govt.
Sri Lanka has proven that in less than 3 growing seasons.
The same thing is going on in the Netherlands where the govt is limiting Nitrogen use. The results are very predictable.
Govts are starving the people right now, all over the planet.
Heard a piece on the radio over the weekend about a couple that adopted 3 kids to keep them together, because they could not concieve. Almost immediately she became pregnant. Through a couple more unique situations they ended up with 10. The Husband was the one telling the story. In the end he talked about strangers looking and judging them when they had 5 to 8 out in public. The Husband said when some one was staring in disbelief, he would whisper to them on the the way by, "we have more of them at home"
Bethany is the person I learned about the baby formula shortage from.
Thank goodness because we helped my daughter, who had a new born, get formula for her baby.
Her community in Colorado had none of the kind she had started her baby in so we shipped a lot of formula from the Madison area.
Times have changed. When I grew up as oldest of 6 comments were always of the "what a beautiful family" variety. (But how come they were never looking at me when they said it?)
It's a startling breach of etiquette …
Yeah before I cut her off permanently because she had become a zealous convert to an angry, humorless, intellectually arid, hostile religion*, my childhood best friend sent me a wine-fueled rant when I was pregnant with #6 slurring my "ridiculously outsized family"
It's funny that the people who Want To Control Women's Bodies, like little old pro-life me, never say anything about anyone else's procreation other than "having kids is fun! if you're up to it, you should do it, but nothing wrong with not, if you don't wanna!" while the We Trust Women crowd feel perfectly comfortable and justified in verbally attacking the family planning of friends and strangers
*wokeism, of course
Life is reproduction. Everything else is a hobby.
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