Said Sarah Molina, 25, a "newly single" "event planner in Phoenix" who had been eager "to get back on the dating scene" until the overturning of Roe v. Wade "changed" her attitude toward sex, even though "abortion is currently legal in Arizona."
I read that article, then clicked a link at the bottom of that page, and it took me to this wedding story: "His Better Banter Won Her Over/Daniel Ogorzalek and Blair Dawson met in 2016 at the Brooklyn bar where she was working. He was drawn to her 'quick wit,' while she appreciated his 'incredible repartee.'"
The last line of that, spoken by the bride, is: "At the end of the day, we both think life should be fun above all else. Laughter is an integral ever-presence and underscores every aspect of our relationship."
Fun above all else. Says a bride, binding her life to a partner forever. Once you have a partner who values fun above all else, you don't have to fret, like the "newly single" ladies, about sex leading to childbirth that could bind you forever to some random man, like back in the olden days.
From the wedding article: "Instead of being accompanied down the aisle, Ms. Dawson sauntered into the venue alone to the song 'SpottieOttieDopaliscious' by Outkast."
So I started to listen to “SpottieOttieDopaliscious” on Spotify.
My personal, ethical rule is to turn off any recording if it contains the n-word. After the intro, which consisted of many repetitions of the words "damn" and "James," the verse began, and the 18th word was the word that requires me to turn it off. So you tell me, what is this life of "fun above all else" that begins with a beautiful blonde in a white dress "sauntering" to:
Dickie shorts, Lincoln's cleanLeanin', checking out the scene
Gangsta boys, Bigga's lit
Ridin' out, talkin' shit
N****, where you wanna go?
Sing along with that, white person, and your life of fun will instantly transmogrify into a life of crushing pain.
I'll just sign off by repeating the NYT question: "Is there hope for enjoying the once fun season?"
Posts
133 comments:
"July 23, 2022
"I feel like women have to be more careful and more selective now in who they have intercourse with."
"If something happens with your birth control or your condom breaks, this potentially could be a partner stuck in your life forever because now you have to raise a child together."
I left the date up there because, of note, 53 years ago + 3 days, we landed on the moon. Today our current generation-in-waiting is wailing over the fact that they should think about who they allow to penetrate them, just in case the same biology that stared humans in the face for millennia continues to stare this generation- particularly this poor, recently single professional- in the face.
It's staggering, what they have to face today. Thankfully, their Government is ready to jump and take 'care' of them- cradle to grave- if given the OK to do so. I think the younger generation is ready to do so. I'm glad I won't be around to see that stunted world. Talk about fun!
People are still free to be perfect idiots! All is not lost, yet.
"I feel like women have to be more careful and more selective now in who they have intercourse with."
Good advice in any circumstance. You might have to raise a child, or contemplate driving four whole hours to California for an abortion.
Ah the good old days. Such fond memories. The times I had chasing the kinds of girls good enough for a fling (or two) but not good enough to be in my life forever.
I'd ask myself all the time, "Ridespacemountain, what if she's lying about being on birth control? What if the condom breaks? Maybe I should reevaluate my dating strategy." Lol, just like Sarah's little monologue, I'm just kidding that never happened.
Imagine, the HORROR! of no longer being able to have promiscuous sex with hundreds of anonymous men, with them sometimes wrapping it, sometimes not.. Having Abortion after Abortion (after Abortion) when things slip.. or are 'forgotten'.
What is a slutty little tramp to do, without easy access to abortions? I mean, where's the fun in that?
"I feel like women have to be more careful and more selective now in who they have intercourse with."
Good God. That has never NOT been true.
---I'll just sign off by repeating the NYT question
Btw, that is your problem right there. Dump their GIGO and get happy.
"If something happens with your birth control or your condom breaks, this potentially could be a partner stuck in your life forever because now you have to raise a child together."
Um ... no, you don't.
First, the efficacy of the "pull out method" is 97%. Then there's Plan B, an abortifacient available at many pharmacies. Second, you can still get abortions in the United States. Thirdly, you can place the child up for adoption. Fourthly, millions and millions and millions of single mothers - all of them black - have been raising children without their fathers for decades and nobody cared. But now that permissive white women are "threatened" with childbirth, all of a sudden it's a real problem we should do something about?
Women who have such little understanding of how child-rearing works in the United States probably shouldn't be littering our gene pool in the first place. But then again, this is the New York Times. Their subscriber base are not very intelligent.
"If something happens with your birth control or your condom breaks, this potentially could be a partner stuck in your life forever because now you have to raise a child together."
So women have to think about sex like men now?
Women have always been careful and selective about having sex with me.
"What is a slutty little tramp to do...?"
Do you consider your male friends or acquaintances to be "slutty little tramp(s)" who have (or have had in their past) several or many sexual partners, many of them transitory relationships or one-night stands?
"I feel like women have to be more careful and more selective now in who they have intercourse with."
There will still be more casualties from the Sexual Revolution.
When it comes to sex, never never ever pay attention to what women say. Pay attention to what they do. And if you are in fact paying attention, when you look around you're going to notice that lots of women make terrible sexual decisions across the board. Real fucking head scratchers. The kind of things that make you ask yourself what the hell they were thinking.
They're not thinking. You're assuming that being the 'controllers' of sex they're all doing mental calculus. They're not. They're just as dumb sexually as horny dudes are.
Never never pay attention to what women say about sex. They do not, in fact, know themselves what they really think or want.
"I feel like women have to be more careful and more selective now in who they have intercourse with."
Men too.
I doubt this whole story. The NYT has decided to selectively quote foolish young women in order to advance their narrative. And they didn't just choose AZ, home of a critical governor's and senate race, randomly.
"Newly single..." Somewhere in Arizona, there is a young man who has hopefully learned a painful lesson. Fun and games.
I do agree that women who want to enjoy casual sex without commitment, (as many men have done for, like, always), should always be (and should always have been) "careful and selective" in choosing sex partners. (Men should, too.) Why would anyone want to have sex with a sub-par partner?
women have to be more careful and more selective now in who they have intercourse with
Imagine, If this turned out to be true!?!?
Imagine, if women had to think twice about who they let inside of them?
Cheer up girls!
You can just suck them off; or let them cum in your ass. You don't have to get pregnant to be a whore!
"I feel like women have to be more careful and more selective now in who they have intercourse with."
Think of it as event planning.
"Btw, that is your problem right there. Dump their GIGO and get happy."
So your advice is for me to end this 18-year blogging project of mine?
Part of NYT's continued efforts to convince its readers that Dobbs outlawed abortion across the country.
Reddit women of Texas are complaining that Dobbs wrecked their sex lives, maybe even their marriages, because they have to be sooo careful now! They're afraid to have sex with their husbands!
I mean was abortion really the everyday backup plan?
OMG. Sad. Double sad.
Ann Althouse said...
So your advice is for me to end this 18-year blogging project of mine?
personally, i'd read your blog, even if you quit reading the NYT's
Libs see nothing wrong with sauntering down the aisle to that “song.”
Culturally, we are in a bad, bad place.
Isn't this all good?
People are thinking about their hop into bed with choices and perhaps considering that abortion should not be used as contraception..
Ha. In golf or blogging, unsolicited advice is rarely welcomed.
Once, back in the olden days of 50 years ago just before Roe vs Wade dropped, I was walking by the Dean of Girls office on the way to my teacher box and I was stopped by the elderly Dean admonishing a small room of 15/16 year old girls that "Maybe you should just keep your legs closed" and the girls - all in mini skirts - were just rolling their eyes and barely concealing their mirth. I think we called it the Generation Gap. I guess that argument had come full circle with a frisson of familiarity.
If it was going to be this easy to get people to smarten up, we should have done it earlier.
The stumbling block, though: some people will never smarten up.
Long time lurker here (pre-Meade and well before carrot sticks and onion rings) with a first time comment to give this post a chef's kiss
With the monkeypox gay men now have to worry about who they have sex with.
Maybe they'll need to start schtupping women. Women seem immune to the disease.
Actual women, that is. Not chicks with dicks.
John LGBTQBNY Henry
Meanwhile - evil Elizabeth Warren wants to close down pregnancy centers.
There Have Been 76 Attacks on Churches and Pregnancy Centers, Not One Attacker Has Been Sent to Prison.
Abortion is legal if it's legal anywhere.
Life itself doesn't think life should be about "fun above all else." And it has a nasty way of imparting that message, one little clue at a time, to married couples--especially those who *aren't* of a certain age.
College in the Sixties. Everybody knew--and was sure more existed--women who started relationships which looked like wanting a relationship. And then moved to sex. It looked as if they were trying to make a good selection. Maybe not trying really, really hard, and maybe not as smart as would have been a good idea. But a kind of conventional progress
But, as said earlier, even with the appearance of some rational choice...good heavens, what were they thinking? HIM?
Worked with a woman who was quite attractive, to the extent her "don't even think it" affect was obvious even in her yearbook photo.
She was sharp, clear-eyed, took no crap, cheerful colleague if she thought you wouldn't be pestering her.
But got all mushy showing me pix of her true love.
Found out decades later, everybody in her orbit knew he wasn't the marrying kind. Didn't know what she had seen in him.
If a case which I knew about could be that extreme....how many must there be outside my limited orbit?
And we knew, presumed possibly there were more than actually existed, those who chose numbers over careful assessment. But that looked like a really fast and erroneous assessment, not a complete lack of concern whatsoever.
Watching the whole scene in a population-dense residential university with north of 35k students and their external connections was a pretty concentrated set of lessons.
All of which is to say that, even sixty years ago, putting yourself in the family way might not have been a really good idea without the tie that binds.
Plenty of room for what looked like fun...didn't always turn out that way but that was for later...and a fallback position was always valuable. Take away the fallback position and things could change.
Some folks above think this article represents the NYT furthering its preferred narrative. It doesn’t, though. (I also think they know that it undercuts certain narratives, and they don’t mind doing that.)
Black people need to get over that word.
The feigned outrage is unbecoming and unconvincing.
Democrats invented it, and it's mostly democrats and blacks themselves that still use it.
"If something happens with your birth control or your condom breaks, this potentially could be a partner stuck in your life forever because now you have to raise a child together."
LOL! Men do this all the time. Not as much or carefully as they actually should be doing, but doing it. Welcome to the party, Pal!
There was a viral tweet yesterday about a woman who had a man come in between her thigh and vulva and many responses from other women saying how dangerous it is to tell men what to do during sex.
Yes, a lot of women need to be more selective. A lot more selective.
Ambrose Wrote: "Part of NYT's continued efforts to convince its readers that Dobbs outlawed abortion across the country."
Well, the NY Times knows exactly how "intelligent" its readers are and knows that if they just say it, that those idiots will believe it.
They've done this so many times before without any problem. Why wouldn't the do it in this instance?
Take a look around New York in the news lately. Seen any signs of intelligent life lately?
Everyone with any intelligence got the hell out of New York a long time ago.
"At the end of the day, we both think life should be fun above all else. Laughter is an integral ever-presence and underscores every aspect of our relationship."
Sounds like something a kid would say. Let's ask them about this after 10 years.
Laughter is a BIG part of my married life. But it is not omnipresent.
Gee, do "pregnancy centers" provide ob-gyn services?
Are you aware that Planned Parenthood clinics are the default ob-gyn providers in poor urban neighborhoods, and that it's not just birth control and abortion? Of course you're not.
I read the article about the couple who were drawn to each other by their ability to banter well together. The bride said "life should be fun above all else". You can interpret that as either vacuous or optimistic....According to the article, they're both young, attractive, and doing well in their careers. So far, so good. Maybe it's possible to have a life that's mostly fun. Apparently that's been their experience in life so far....Woody Allen. Now there's a guy that knows how to banter. Most of his marriages were successful, and he's had a life that's been mostly fun. So it can be done.
In reading Sarah Molina’s quote, my first thought was how many men has she slept with by age 25? I certainly wouldn’t want to date a woman (back in my dating days prior to meeting Mrs. Scott, that is) who hopped from bed to bed, especially a woman who wasn’t interested in a (potentially) long term commitment. Some day in the future, Sarah or a woman like Sarah will wake up to find she is no longer desirable by single men in the dating pool and she may start to question her choice of sleeping partners, since she wasn’t interested in any of them for a long term commitment. And what about STD’s? The more men she has one night stands with, the better the odds she gets infected. That would be quite a turn-off to guys Sarah might be interested in.
Sarah being more choosy of her choice of mates will be a good thing in her life. And if she is politically a flaming liberal / Regressive (TM), all the more better for our society and culture that she doesn’t reproduce…
Til death do us party.
’Is there hope for enjoying the once fun season?’
I’m having so much fun I can barely contain myself!! And, no, I’m not seeing any slowdown of extracurricular activities since Roe has been overturned. (Not a humblebrag - just a datapoint)
Aphorisms to live by (none original by me, of course):
1. Not my circus, not my monkeypox.
2. Don't stick it in crazy.
3. If you spend your life looking for Mr. Goodbar, you will find him.
"So women have to think about sex like men now?"
Hahahaha!
So...you really think many men think like this...more so than women?
This is much ado about nothing.
Well it looks like sport fornication is going to decrease.
oxymoron - definition
A figure of speech which contradicts and therefore negates itself.
example:
Most of his marriages were successful
Guys who don’t care about how promiscuous their wife is have a way of getting selected out of the gene pool while feeding and protecting the offspring of other men. It’s not some irrational idea to prefer a chaste wife. It’s evolved into men like migration is evolved into Canada geese, not every goose migrates, but most do even if it seems a waste of energy.
Ann Althouse said...
"Btw, that is your problem right there. Dump their GIGO and get happy."
So your advice is for me to end this 18-year blogging project of mine?
You could always choose non-shitty sources of information instead.
I understand it is a lot easier to blurb out a post when you use the NYT's/WAPO. There is just so much concentrated stupid right there and the easiest post for your format is "Look at what those stupid leftists are believing now what a bunch of idiots."
But that is like sarcasm. It is the lowest form of thought/humor. There is no intellectual challenge for anyone involved with the NYT's as a source/muse for discussion.
Maybe just broaden out the selection of sources and stop giving so much weight to the 80 IQ echo chamber?
Well it looks like sport fornication is going to decrease.
Pity fucks will be the first to go.
RideSpaceMountain said:
"When it comes to sex, never never ever pay attention to what women say. Pay attention to what they do. And if you are in fact paying attention, when you look around you're going to notice that lots of women make terrible sexual decisions across the board. Real fucking head scratchers. The kind of things that make you ask yourself what the hell they were thinking.
They're not thinking. You're assuming that being the 'controllers' of sex they're all doing mental calculus. They're not. They're just as dumb sexually as horny dudes are.
Never never pay attention to what women say about sex. They do not, in fact, know themselves what they really think or want."
Coulda written this myself. My cynical side gets a schadenboner every time I witness the young and stupid re-invent the wheel, suddenly discovering that things like promiscuity are really bad ideas... For individuals and society.
The real irony here is that the young sluts of today fail to recognize that the reasons the old rules existed had decent provenance and a track record of success--For society. And, that the primary enforcers of those quaint old rules weren't a cabal of patriarchs somewhere, but the exact opposite--The old biddies who were worried about keeping the family going in a stable way, and who recognized that a bunch of "easy-lay" little chicklets running around screwing everything in sight served nobody's best interests, including those young women themselves.
Step back and analyze the "rules", both the stated and the unspoken, that run society. I defy you to show me one that is actually arbitrary and purposeless. They may appear to be both, but if you dig deep enough, you'll find that they have purpose. Unlimited and unrestrained coupling outside marriage is not a net social good, at any life stage. And, in the end, society is worried about just the one thing in regards to sex: Successfully producing the next generation. Stable marriages and family situations produce successful young adults; anything that detracts from that is detrimental to society as a whole. Which is why the old biddies don't want their daughters and the daughters of other women running around like sluts, cheapening the sex that attracts young men into humble domesticity and undermining the relationships they have with the older males, who might be seeking easily available younger and more attractive mates.
The funny thing here is this: Sexual license is absolutely a thing that old women loathe, because of the effect that it naturally has on their own status. When you're old and blown out from bearing children, that sweet young thing is a threat: Best to get her tight little ass under control, and keep her there. Thus, we have a bunch of social institutions meant to do just that, and they're mostly enforced by the old women in a society. Men could really care less; they love the idea of lots of sex with young, attractive women. Which is why it ain't the "patriarchy" that comes up with these things or enforces them; it's the old women. Polygamy? You can analyze that as a mechanism wherein the successful male gets to have his cake and eat it, too--Or, more accurately, you can analyze it as the senior wife making damn sure she maintains her place in society while simultaneously keeping those younger and more attractive sluts under her thumb.
Same with a lot of the conventions in traditional Western societies. A free-wheeling anarchy when it comes to sexual access serves no one well, and we're in the process of re-discovering that fact. You wonder why the fertility rate has dropped so precipitously? The "Sexual Revolution" is a significant factor. The idiots tried to re-invent the wheel, not understanding why it was on the wagon, or that it needed to rotate freely. From the results, they apparently also failed to note that said wheel needed to be round...
Robert Cook said...
"So women have to think about sex like men now?"
Hahahaha!
So...you really think many men think like this...more so than women?
Your depth of thought on this subject is just like your depth on every other subject.
You are a boring shallow thinker.
Men and women who put future concerns over short term hedonism will always be more successful.
Men and Women face different risks with promiscuity. Men face financial and societal status risk. Women face the risk of having to drive to another state or the risk of having to make a decision within 6-15 weeks.
I know you don't think women are capable of taking that much responsibility, but I think almost all women can manage to make that decision and drive down to the clinic within 42 days.
"That's from "Sorry, Summer/We all know what happened with summer 2020. Then 2021 was dampened by Delta. This year, any anticipated return to revelry has been hampered by … *waves hands at everything.* Is there hope for enjoying the once fun season?" (NYT).
The average woman is going to understand the general meaning of this.
The average NYTs woman reader is obviously an over educated dumb shit.
Abortion isn't used as contraception. Contraception doesn't always work, and depending on frequency of sex you can run the probability of eventual failure up pretty high. Quoted failure rate is per exposure.
"I feel like women have to be more careful and more selective now in who they have intercourse with."
Reminds me of the widely circulated comment – I assume it was dry trolling, but you never know – purporting to be from a young woman who says she and her friends discussed it, and they'll no longer have sex with a man unless he's willing to make a binding legal commitment to stay and to support any children that come out of the arrangement.
As for harrumphs about sluts or tramps, well - any such woman has a delighted male counterpart.
Buckwheathikes:
"First, the efficacy of the "pull out method" is 97%."
I take your point, but that other 3% makes for quite a lot of surprises over time.
Hahahaha!
So...you really think many men think like this...more so than women?
Only the smart ones, Robert.
I can't speak for the rest of you.
And, by the way, who do you think is going to provide ob-gyn services in the states with draconian anti-abortion laws, especially in poor areas where a ticket to elsewhere is not going to happen?
"You could always choose non-shitty sources of information instead."
Name some. I bet they are shitty too. I monitor what I'm interested in monitoring: elite media. If you have some good alternatives *for me* — that would work FOR ME, with my interests and my skills — you need to name them. I don't think they exist.
Ambrose said...
Part of NYT's continued efforts to convince its readers that Dobbs outlawed abortion across the country.
Isn't that the truth !
"Joe Smith" (fake name much?) said:
"Black people need to get over that word.
"The feigned outrage is unbecoming and unconvincing.
"Democrats invented it, and it's mostly democrats and blacks themselves that still use it."
I think you're in the wrong topic, bub, but...since you're here:
1. It's not just a word, it is a term than expresses in concentrated form, more than any other, all the hatred and contempt felt and abuse and injustice inflicted by whites on blacks for hundreds of years in the US.
2. The outrage isn't feigned, and that you think it is "unbecoming" and "unconvincing" shows how little you regard black people as human beings.
3. ?????????
(As for blacks who use the term--and don't assume all, or even a majority, do--it is a way of taking possession of a painful term of contempt to try to drain it of its power, just as many homosexuals now use the term "queer" to diminish its ability to wound.)
"Reminds me of the widely circulated comment – I assume it was dry trolling, but you never know – purporting to be from a young woman who says she and her friends discussed it, and they'll no longer have sex with a man unless he's willing to make a binding legal commitment to stay and to support any children that come out of the arrangement."
Trolling? Trolling? Good grief. That used to be the norm called marriage. How pathetically far we have fallen.
"Buckwheathikes:
'First, the efficacy of the "pull out method" is 97%.'
"I take your point, but that other 3% makes for quite a lot of surprises over time."
Yes, indeed, and...how can the woman be sure the man will really pull out (or can hold out long enough to do so)?
'elite media'
Are they 'elite' because they say so?
Or because they're read by 'elite' people?
Not a criticism, but 'elite' is an odd way of describing for-profit media companies who are not above sensationalism and political journalism in order to increase consumption and therefor maximize advertising revenue...
These articles only expose what a horrible degrading effect access to abortion has had on people's ethics. You didn't have to worry about it before because you could always kill a baby? What is wrong with us?
RH cuts thru the Bs..
"Abortion is legal if it's legal anywhere."
Our generation coined If it feels good do it.
Our generation made drugs SNL fun.
Our generation cheered the passage of Roe.
Our generation raised these young adults.
Thanks a lot, us.
It’s interesting how we are hearing more commentary calling women sluts. Does the end of Roe v. Wade give certain commenters nostalgia for the days when calling women sluts made them more masculine? It doesn’t. The aggression toward women seems to be ramping up, it’s evident by the derogatory comments directed toward females, even here in the comments sections. Did the end of Roe v. Wade bring out the extreme assholery of certain males?
"So your advice is for me to end this 18-year blogging project of mine?"
Sunk costs fallacy.
@takirks
That's a whole Lotta Chestertons Fence! And mostly true. At the end of the day I am just as guilty. I'm probably considerably younger than the average age of posters here so I've seen and participated in a lot of modern Western and foreign sexual culture and done my fair share - looking back - of things that were dumb and stupid, and I was just lucky.
The thing that grinds with me and most everyone else is the patent dishonesty, almost all of it from women about sexual choices and sexual impropriety. 'Muh misogyny' and 'muh patriarchy' are really just code words, a deflection, from responsibility for choices made, feelings that got hurt, regrets, and a lingering sense of female shame for behavior that other women (never men) would shame them for if people found out.
They keep screaming 'fuck all that'. Well, THEN FUCK ALL THAT. Play like a big girl in big girl games and win big girl prizes. Society, and especially men, are not responsible for your fucked up choices anymore than women are responsible for incels not getting laid.
"It's not just a word, it is a term than expresses in concentrated form, more than any other, all the hatred and contempt felt and abuse and injustice inflicted by whites on blacks for hundreds of years in the US."
“…more selective…”
That strikes me as an odd thing to say. Is this a decision [to have intercourse] determined by “if contraception fails, do I want to run the risk of getting pregnant by this guy?” Presumably, some other guy would be acceptable as an unexpected pregnancy.
It seems, of course, this has nothing to do with what they are saying. They want to make a point about abortion laws. And if this is the point they are trying to make, then it sounds like they are “too ignorant to be voting on it” (to summarize a common liberal refrain).
@takirks
"Muh misogyny' and 'muh patriarchy' are really just code words, a deflection, from responsibility for choices made"
I forgot to add one thing to the previous comment. What is the cause, the reason behind the 'choices made'? Ask me or any guy on the street what they find attractive, and most men will tell you and know why They find that attractive. Even among the gays. But women aren't as in touch with the 'why'.
Women say things like a guy has to have 'confidence' or be 'cute' or a 'good listener' but none of that translates well into the choices you'll see woken make. Once again never listen to what they say. All of those things won't explain why she actually hangs out with a Ukrainian mafioso who fucks 3 other women, smacks her around, and chokes her during sex (she loved it by the way).
1) women are never going to tell you the truth about why they make the choices they do and 2) women are subconsciously afraid of those reasons. They're afraid of them getting out and they're afraid of, as an example,, what acknowledging an attraction to a powerful man who abuses them would do to their egos vis-a-vis what they tell themselves they want.
There's nothing necessarily morally wrong with liking a dude who doesn't listen to you, beats you, fucks other chicks, and smacks the taste out of your mouth during sex...if that's what you're into. But wishing and saying that's not what you want 1 million times isn't going to make it true.
Tens of millions of women in the West are like this. The real handmaids tail attire they've put on is the facade that feminism has told them they must adopt which clashes to completely and totally with the natural attractions and feelings they have, and it is driving millions of women insane because they can't acknowledge it. Acknowledging it gives up the whole game. It's a feedback loop of epic proportions.
"until the overturning of Roe v. Wade "changed" her attitude toward sex"
So we do agree now, don't we, that abortion was always just a convenient form of birth control, particularly for women who couldn't be bothered to "do morality" a la Althouse about the actual sex.
"Fun above all else. Says a bride, binding her life to a partner forever. Once you have a partner who values fun above all else, you don't have to fret, like the "newly single" ladies, about sex leading to childbirth"
But you do have to fret about whether you are still fun enough for your fun-loving partner.
"So you tell me, what is this life of "fun above all else" that begins with a beautiful blonde in a white dress "sauntering" to . . ."
A good reflection of the transvaluation of values. Nothing matters, anything goes.
Mike Petrik,
"Trolling? Good grief. That used to be the norm called marriage."
My characterization was unclear.
At a glance, you might laugh and think to the poster, "Congratulations, you've just suggested the concept we know as marriage." But looking at it again, I think the poster knew exactly what she was doing, and was being dryly humorous by writing as if unaware the concept has been out there awhile now.
"I think you're in the wrong topic, bub..."
"My personal, ethical rule is to turn off any recording if it contains the n-word. After the intro, which consisted of many repetitions of the words "damn" and "James," the verse began, and the 18th word was the word that requires me to turn it off. So you tell me, what is this life of "fun above all else" that begins with a beautiful blonde in a white dress "sauntering" to:
Dickie shorts, Lincoln's clean
Leanin', checking out the scene
Gangsta boys, Bigga's lit
Ridin' out, talkin' shit
N****, where you wanna go?
Sing along with that, white person, and your life of fun will instantly transmogrify into a life of crushing pain."
Reading comprehension much?
"It's not just a word, it is a term than expresses in concentrated form, more than any other, all the hatred and contempt felt and abuse and injustice inflicted by whites on blacks for hundreds of years in the US."
A word coined and used almost exclusively by slave owners who turned almost 100% Democrat since the founding of the party.
Reading your comments I think I know what it's like to lose 50 IQ points...
LOL... Inga proves the rule. Again.
The "slut" label comes from the old biddies, darling. As a man, I positively love sluts; they give men what they want for free.
That this isn't in their best interest, or societies? Not my problem, really.
Hell, this shit is playing out inside my own family, right now: Sister-in-law has near-daily rows with the niece about what the girl is wearing. Which doesn't even register with her dad, TBH.
The fun thing about watching all of this play out is the misidentification and utter stupidity of the people reacting against "the (imaginary) patriarchy". They think they're sticking it to "the Man", but the Man ain't home, and never has been. Because he's a nonexistent projection of spoiled little girls who've been told they can't do as they like, or have that pony. The actual entity they should be attacking isn't "the Man", but the older women in society who've been there, done that, and who don't want to give up their own positions to some feckless little twit who can't work out cause and effect. Men don't notice this crap, and could frankly care less: Average male really doesn't care about these issues, so long as they're getting sex on the regular. Which is, I am afraid, equally short-sighted.
No, darling Inga... The "Man" doesn't exist. The personages you want to have a little chat with about how things are, and the characterizations of those loose-legged young women as sluts are your peers who're smart enough to recognize the reality of things, and have been fighting a losing battle against idiocy.
I used to think my grandmother was a judgmental old stick-in-the-mud. I now recognize her for what she was: A realist. Every single thing that she "deplored" or found socially offensive about the grand new era we've built after abandoning the old values and mores? Turns out, that stuff actually served a damn purpose, and all the people who espoused and took part in the replacement values and mores are miserable and suffering from the natural consequences of having embraced all these new wonders of the age.
So, yeah... Go have a chat with the right people. Patriarchy ain't here, today, or ever.
Robert Cook, 11:05:
I won't attempt to gauge Joe Smith's regard for black people. Apart from that, I think your comment is exactly right, and really well put.
The people who organized the case that was supposed to precede Roe -- Doe v. Bolton -- all struck me as being dismayed by what had evolved into abortion on demand and the sexual culture of today. They stressed that they were motivated back then by the hard cases -- wanting to make life easier for a woman who already had five children she couldn't feed and her husband beat her and they were poor, or the young woman used and abandoned by someone more sophisticated. I don't think any of them could imagine what the world would become today, with nightly hookups and the utter loss of courtship rituals and commitments. And people forget how poor many still were in the South then, especially black people. Yet I sensed ruefulness, if not regret, battling against their memories of their desire to protect vulnerable women. I think most of them, with such foresight, would have framed the law differently. These were people whose lives were lived in rural courtrooms and big city public emergency rooms, witnessing the many ways a human life can be destroyed. None of them talked about rights or equality, let alone women's "right" to behave like men. It was thought-provoking.
My main professor was a big proponent of single-sex education. She had some saying I can't recall about separating the act of dating and educating. It was more clever than that.
I agree with the rule of not listening to a song after hearing the N-word. Imagine a world where the same rule applied to the C-word, the B-word, and not bashing in people's heads because they are white.
I like Ann's commentary on the NYT, WaPo, etc. And I would regret her folding this up and think she tolerates a bucket load of unnecessary sexism in the comments. And I am probably the most paleoconservative person here. After making sure the Queen is still alive and getting the real headlines at the NYPost and Daily News, I hate-read the NYTimes every day. But I also hate-read National Review and the currently pathetic iteration (with some exceptions) American Conservative.
My advice? Read Takimag for a month. I'm a Zionist and dislike their British-iterated anti-semitism, but otherwise they're the funniest and riskiest and best writers out there. Certainly the very most entertaining. Taki Theodoracopulos plays the fool, but he isn't one. He was once Britain's Christopher Hitchens, though he likely tried to sleep with his wife, as he does all wives. He is more complicated than his Wikipedia entry, of course.
takirks.
If I get this, don't kick over the wall until you think about why those old guys spent time and effort building it.
Right?
Does the end of Roe v. Wade give certain commenters nostalgia for the days
it gives me hope, that the last 50 years of the era of sluttishness is closing
And, some of you; are Too Ignorant to read, but promiscuous people are sluts, no matter their gender
in other words; your argument that "because of abortion, women can be sluts" doesn't impress me
in other words; your argument that "because of abortion, men can be sluts" doesn't impress me either
Hopefully, we could be moving to a world where women don't let guys treat them like sluts
Hopefully, we could be moving to a world where women don't let guys BE sluts
Ann Althouse said...
"You could always choose non-shitty sources of information instead."
Name some. I bet they are shitty too. I monitor what I'm interested in monitoring: elite media. If you have some good alternatives *for me* — that would work FOR ME, with my interests and my skills — you need to name them. I don't think they exist.
You pretend as if we haven't had this discussion before and we haven't given you lists of sources.
Why do you do that?
You often do post a lot of the sources we have suggested. The Greenwald/Taibbi articles almost always start good conversations. Brand is doing good stuff. The Epoch times is an actually honest news organization but you have to pay for it. On the other hand you pay for obvious garbage so that shouldn't stop you. Neil Oliver is entertaining and intelligent.
You could choose any source of information in the world and it would be more honest and informative than the NYT's or the WAPO.
Any website. Any publication. Any random writer on Substack. Any 5 year old writing their first words.
The NYT's and WAPO are utterly predictable and dishonest. Every now and then they accidentally post something informative as a result of their complete lack of self awareness. These make interesting posts.
It is not that you use these. They need to be monitored. It is that you are mailing it in by backboning your choices with these 2 sources.
Almost every discussion starting with a post from the WAPO/NYT's starts in the same place and ends in the same place in the discussion. It is boring and lazy.
Inga said...
It’s interesting how we are hearing more commentary calling women sluts. Does the end of Roe v. Wade give certain commenters nostalgia for the days when calling women sluts made them more masculine? It doesn’t. The aggression toward women seems to be ramping up, it’s evident by the derogatory comments directed toward females, even here in the comments sections. Did the end of Roe v. Wade bring out the extreme assholery of certain males?
Most women aren't sluts. They make good decisions and do well with their life.
But apparently the NYT's wants you to be a slut and make stupid decisions.
Why do you think that is?
The dam might break against these women!
Some white guy said:
1. It's not just a word, it is a term than expresses in concentrated form, more than any other, all the hatred and contempt felt and abuse and injustice inflicted by whites on blacks for hundreds of years in the US
That's why, the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of people that use it today are blacks?
That makes just as much sense as most of the things you hear marxists say
Promiscuity, like all misbehaviors, is fun for a season, but always leads to self-destruction.
The Bible offers pretty clear prescriptions for what ails the population. Yet seemingly intelligent people scoff at it. One could start by reading the old testament proverbs.
Promiscuity, like all misbehaviors, is fun for a season, but always leads to self-destruction.
The Bible offers pretty clear prescriptions for what ails the population. Yet seemingly intelligent people scoff at it. One could start by reading the old testament proverbs.
Inga: I think much of the culture of the time, including Roe, is what motivated more sexism, not less. As a young woman in the 80s, I and my female friends often discussed and agreed on this. Men were freed from responsibility to do anything, and we were not. It was expected of us by boyfriends, academic mentors and parents to abort, and usually pay for it, and go alone. The situation has only grown worse.
I have a particular obsession with making the site where Hustler editor Larry Flint lost the use of his man parts into a national monument, not to celebrate his being shot, but to offset his disgusting use of women and minorities and his inappropriate valorization as a "free speech hero" by the ACLU and the Left. It's the courthouse in Lawrenceville, Georgia. Somehow, others disagree. Don't you think pornography, airbrushed or violent, is what is really at the root of misogyny?
Blogger jim said...
Gee, do "pregnancy centers" provide ob-gyn services?
Are you aware that Planned Parenthood clinics are the default ob-gyn providers in poor urban neighborhoods, and that it's not just birth control and abortion? Of course you're not.
Some of that is true. After years of listening to their presentations, they don't do "follow-up" as SOP. They will refer for STD or cancer issues they may encounter but do not handle the care themselves.
So the real problem here is that poor, urban women need better Ob-Gyn providers.
Russel Brand video would start a good conversation.
He interviews Noam Chomsky.
This video would challenge the preconceptions of pretty much everyone reading this blog including you.
It actually gets to the heart of what is wrong with focusing on the NYT's/WAPO as primary sources.
Meanwhile, Monkeypox spreading via distinct behaviors.
Shhh.
It's interesting that pushing abortion to the states hasn't created a clamoring for better, safer or more likely to be used birth control.
Inga,
Perhaps it's a reaction to the crass idiocy Roe's demise brought out of many of the women publishers put forth. See the nut-job gal tearing up a baby in effigy?
Not a good look.
But then, we saw similar idiocy from Sandra Fluke.
Hey, how's mattress girl doing these days?
It’s interesting how we are hearing more commentary calling women sluts.
I am a little confused by this. What is a woman? Please define your terminology better so we can understand your assertion.
I am also immediately, right now, identifying as a woman with pronouns of s'he and her's. I am not offended by that term as it is being applied to a specific subset of the group and not to us women as a whole.
I am now back to identifying as my heteronormal biological gendersex.
Thomas Sowell has words on all of this:
"Much of the social history of the Western world, over the past three decades, has been a history of replacing what worked with what sounded good."
"In area after area—crime, education, housing, race relations—the situation has gotten worse after the bright new theories were put into operation. The amazing thing is that this history of failure and disaster has neither discouraged the social engineers nor discredited them."
The really incredible thing is how people keep failing to note these things, and go on to double-down on the stupid. So long as some credentialed authority figure tells them that such a thing is so, they believe.
Which is really laughable, when you see the parallels between the much-maligned "good old days" when people listened to the clerics, ignoring all else. About all modern life has really managed is a sleight-of-hand substitution of authority figures, trading lab coats for the clergy's vestments. You read the news, and it becomes clear that the most recent press release of some study's findings are treated much the same as the old days, when a bishop or other church official pronounced upon some esoterica of the faith.
And, there's usually just about as much fact behind both of them.
Did the end of Roe v. Wade bring out the extreme assholery of certain females?
Yes. FIFY
1. It's not just a word, it is a term than expresses in concentrated form, more than any other, all the hatred and contempt felt and abuse and injustice inflicted by Democrats on blacks for hundreds of years in the US.
FIFY. Democrats have not been so angry at Republicans since we freed their slaves.
“My personal, ethical rule is to turn off any recording if it contains the n-word.”
That’s RACIST!! You’re refusing to listen to 90% of Black music!
It's all your fault, Inga. Starting with Eve seduced by the snake is responsible for the death of all humans. Fast forward to 1920 in the women getting the right to vote turn the United States from an egalitarian Paradise into the gulag archipelago run by Karen's.
"I feel like women have to be more careful and more selective now in who they have intercourse with."
"If something happens with your birth control or your condom breaks, this potentially could be a partner stuck in your life forever because now you have to raise a child together."
No shit Sherlock. You finally figured that out, at age 25?
Helping people to figure that out? That in and of itself is an argument for Dobbs.
I'm curious, does the word "adoption" appear anywhere in that article?
Freeman Hunt said...
These articles only expose what a horrible degrading effect access to abortion has had on people's ethics. You didn't have to worry about it before because you could always kill a baby? What is wrong with us?
Not all of America is part of that "us". Happily
Gratuitous permissive sex is their want, debauchery is their joy, and they glory in murders of the unborn, so they sure won't let any baby get in their way of a life of pleasure.
Marry the father? How would they know who he is? Why they are 'saving' themselves for the right rich man.
Sounds like Rome.. just before the fall.
@JPS -- Thanks for the clarification. Makes sense.
There is no mystery in sex and conception. A woman, and man, have four choice: abstinence or sex, contraception in depth, adoption (i.e. shared/shifted responsibility), compassion (i.e. shared/personal responsibility), and an equal right to self-defense through reconciliation. The wicked solution is neither a good nor exclusive choice.
Society, humanity, have a compelling cause to discourage homicides committed in darkness, under a cloak of privacy, human rites performed for social, redistributive, clinical, political, and fair weather causes.
The Pro-Choice ethical religion denies women and men's, girls and boys', dignity and agency, and reduces human life to negotiable commodities.
That said, keep women, and nine year-old girls, affordable, available, and taxable?
Women, men, and "our Posterity" are from Earth. Feminists are from Venus. Masculinists are from Mars. Social progressives are from Uranus.
FIFY. Democrats have not been so angry at Republicans since we freed their slaves.
Slavery, diversity [dogma] (e.g. racism), political congruence, medical mandates, cargo cult science, and NOW (pun intended) human rites.
Most men love sluts, they just don't want to marry them...
"You could choose any source of information in the world and it would be more honest and informative than the NYT's or the WAPO."
I subscribe to the London Times and often do posts on it.
I often link to The Guardian and NPR and BBC.
I subscribe to and often link to The New Yorker, New York Magazine, The New York Review of Books, and Vanity Fair.
I favor writing that at least tries to be good in the old-fashioned sense.
I'm not too interested in commentators because I don't link just to point and uplift other writers. And I'm not too interested in politics in the wonky way, especially foreign policy and economics, where I don't think I have much to contribute. I want to go somewhere where there's a lot of variety and a decent chance to see things that haven't been talked about before. I blog when it's something I haven't already blogged about, something intriguing, something that fits themes I've followed over the years.
I want sites that follow *culture* and not just politics. I loathe both political parties and am very bored by material that's just about boosting one party or the other.
And I can't stand looking at cluttered sites with moving images and ads all over the place, especially ads for toenail fungus and scalp psoriasis. It's disgusting!
RideSpaceMountain said:
"They keep screaming 'fuck all that'. Well, THEN FUCK ALL THAT. Play like a big girl in big girl games and win big girl prizes. Society, and especially men, are not responsible for your fucked up choices anymore than women are responsible for incels not getting laid."
This is the essential feature that pisses me off about the whinging twits like Inga; they want what they want, but they don't want to pay the price. Daddy is supposed to come rescue them from their bad decisions, and if it ain't daddy, then it better be the government...
People want to act like we've overcome all the limitations of our biology. We have NOT. You want to "play like the boys"? Well, here's a fact of life: As a woman, under today's prevailing conditions, you have a finite amount of fertility. FINITE. You have a certain amount of "sexual health" that's going to evaporate under the impact of constant sexual contact with random males--Things like chalmydia and your own hormonal systems that are meant to be having babies are going to result in infertility and health issues if you're wanting to play the wanton slut like your male peers wrongly think they can, as well. The unfortunate fact is that a male can range the field, and get away with it scot-free. Not so much the ladies. This is unfair, but it is a FACT. You can't wish it away, or stamp your little foot and have daddy come fix it for you.
Much of modern life's problems stem from idiots wanting that make-believe BS to be really truly true. It ain't, and that's a large part of the reason our societies are failing, worldwide. Fertility rates being what they are? LOL... There is no 'effing way you can term any of the societies demonstrating a 1.14 fertility anything close to "successful". That's a dead civilization walking. I'm pretty sure that a civilization coming back from that would be unprecedented--What normally follows is conquest or extinction. And, other people living where they were...
What really pisses me off about all of this? The utter depravity of those espousing it, and the effect it has on impressionable young people. The Kardashians can do what they like, 'cos they've got millions coming in and will never feel the pain of their ill-judged choices. Sonia, the hairdresser down the street? She's got nowhere near the resources to overcome the problems; it's just her and that pair of kids she had with that idiot who left her for that big-titted bimbo a few years back, and now she's in the same situation as Sonia, 'cos she got fat when she had her kids, and the POS they both chased like bitches in heat is on to a third stupid little chicklet that can't seem to see anything wrong with his lifestyle...
Meanwhile, the successful middle-class couple that's just next door is putting off having kids 'cos they're economically raped by taxes to pay for Sonia and Miss Big Tit's kiddos...
All of this enabled by thoughtless twits like Inga, who see nothing wrong with sluts.
There are consequences to actions, and the Gods of the Copyright Headings will have their due. They work like that.
Richard Aubrey said:
"If I get this, don't kick over the wall until you think about why those old guys spent time and effort building it.
Right?"
Chesterton's essay on his fencing issues resonated very powerfully with me, when I first read it years and years ago. At the time, I was dealing with the side-effects of a new commander who wanted to change everything when he took command, 'cos he wanted to "make his mark". Well, he certainly did that, but... Not quite the way he thought he would. He did succeed in setting a benchmark for what could best be termed "f**kupedness accomplished in the shortest time ever". Not a lot of fun to participate in, but loads of fodder for "Can you top this...?" competitions in later years, when discussing the foibles of higher commissioned leadership with other senior NCOs. What was unfortunate was that telling a lot of other people what this guy had done, and actually toning it down a lot...? Resulted in outright incredulity. People didn't believe me about Mr. Change-is-good, but a couple of times, I was able to provide witnesses to verify what this guy actually did, to open-mouthed awe at the misadventures.
You think you've plumbed the depths of human stupidity and feckless decision-making, and then you meet someone like that. What's unfortunate is that you can identify a lot of the same qualities in many of our leading elite "thought-leaders".
Y'know... Here's a thought about traditional gender roles for the sexes.
Our thought-leaders like unto Inga are constantly telling us that a "woman is just as good as a man...", and yet... I keep running into inconvenient little indicators that such contentions are entirely wrong-headed.
Consider this incident:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/2022/07/19/nicholas-bostic-rescue-kids-fire/
Nicholas Bostic was driving by, doing his job as a pizza-delivery man, saw the fire. He then acted to get everyone out, running back into the flames before the fire department or the cops got there. He nearly died getting the last kid out, but managed to save her and himself.
Toxic masculinity, of course.
But, I want you to consider this: I went out looking for equivalent acts performed by female passers-by or bystanders. You can find lots of cases where mom's went in after their kids, their housepets, or other loved ones, but you don't find squat for women going in and risking their lives for random strangers. Your search-fu may be better, but I'm trying to recollect over the course of my life, and I can't recall of ever having heard of a single instance of a woman going into the flames for a stranger.
I can think of an awful lot of men who've done that, though. One of my guys got himself killed while on leave, 'cos he saw flames driving by and kept going in to look for the kids until the smoke got him. Par for the course, with him. Volunteer fireman from the first day he was eligible, still active in the local department wherever the Army assigned him. Know what we all said about him, after? "He died like a man..."
We're told all about how women are equal to men, and just as good, if not actually better. Yet... I don't see them stepping up to the plate and doing man things, like this. Why?
Show me where I'm wrong. Give me some examples of a woman going into the flames for strangers, because I'm sitting here with three search engines going, unable to find a thing.
Maybe boys and girls ain't actually the same. Huh. Go figure.
'I won't attempt to gauge Joe Smith's regard for black people.'
Nor should you because you don't know me.
'Apart from that, I think your comment is exactly right, and really well put.'
Bear in mind you are siding with someone who regards big game hunting to be worse than child rape.
“Why do some men talk excessively?
Reasons that someone may talk excessively include mental health disorders, personality characteristics, and personality disorders. Excessive talking can create a social burden for both the talking person and their listeners.”
Healthline
You Talk Too Much: 8 Words for the Wordy
You can't shut them up, but you can label them appropriately
TakIrks: women subject their bodies and many heroically risk their lives due to cancer or others serious diseases to produce new life. Nine months of pregnancy, then excruciating pain, then months of nurturing that falls almost exclusively to them.
No man has ever done this. Not once.
We all have our heroism, risk, and reward.
but you don't find squat for women going in and risking their lives for random strangers.
as you said, women are FIERCELY protective of what's THEIRS (children, pets, boyfriends, recipes)
men are inclined risk themselves for random people/things
I'm going to postulate, that this ties into women KNOWING who their children are, and men not.
I'm not sure that a guy will protect a random kid because it MIGHT BE his; but i AM postulating that women FIXATE on their personal property (children, etc).
the problem with my theory is that childless women don't rise to the random occasion either..
"Sounds like Rome.. just before the fall." Sounds like Rome for 500 years before the fall.
Also, Takirks, what about the teacher who shielded her students under her body and took the bullets for them? What about Sharon Tate pleading with her killers to keep her alive long enough to give birth, then kill her and let the baby live?
Yeah, your attitude and your research skills aren't adequate.
Ukrainian paramedic remembered for her bravery Valentyna Pushych was shot to death while on her way to evacuate injured people from the outskirts of Kyiv
Over the past two years, a new generation of women has appeared in Ukraine – volunteers, doctors, nurses, medical workers, and soldiers, bravely fighting for their country and saving lives in the war zone. It’s sadly true that the war has pushed Ukrainian women to the forefront, allowing them to demonstrate steel-like strength, true patriotism and no fear. Today, women on the front lines are not a unique sight, but not every woman dares to take such a step. In war, women are equal to men, and in some cases, even better professionals.
Takirks wants us to forget the heroism of the nurses in WW2, Korea, Vietnam, the female Corpsmen/medics in Afghanistan and Iraq.
Takirk sounds very familiar, like another misogynistic asshole that likes hearing himself blather, who used to comment here.
Ann Althouse said...
"You could choose any source of information in the world and it would be more honest and informative than the NYT's or the WAPO."
I subscribe to the London Times and often do posts on it.
I often link to The Guardian and NPR and BBC.
I subscribe to and often link to The New Yorker, New York Magazine, The New York Review of Books, and Vanity Fair.
I favor writing that at least tries to be good in the old-fashioned sense.
Cool.
Just don't pretend like you are intellectually curious or that you have a broad range of sources. All of the sources you listed post the same stories every day from the same point of view.
You like your major media sources well curated and you like living within the windows of thought that the Oligarchs proscribe for you.
If you are comfortable with your sources that's all you. They are limited and intellectually devoid. But at least they don't have pictures moving around. That sounds awful.
Toenail fungus is also a very good reason to avoid sources of information that could make you uncomfortable. Ads for cures to Toenail fungus must be all over those "trashy" sources of information that don't purposely mislead their readers all the time.
We come here for the discussions, not the posts. Again this is just a dead horse.
'No man has ever done this. Not once.'
Transphobic.
Men can give birth.
Your rules...
takirks
Ran into a short essay by a feminist, in a fashion a statement against interest.
She and her husband came to an active accident scene. They got out and started running toward the car in question. A guy who had gotten there first had a fire extinguisher and put out a small fire.
Her husband said, "Thank God. I didn't want to have to go into a fire." She said, "You don't have to.' He said, "Women may, men must."
Different role expectations and....I submit, accurate. Hence the admission against interest flavor of the piece.
The conflict between women and men is artificial. Women and men are equal and complementary. Reconcile.
"We come here for the discussions, not the posts. Again this is just a dead horse."
You say "we," but no one else has picked up your topic.
"Just don't pretend like you are..."
Don't pretend "like you" speak for others. You're just grousing and purporting to tell me how to write a blog. Perhaps, following your advice, I could be a better or more successful blogger. Even if 100 other readers chimed in and said your advice actually means something, is good, and should be followed by Althouse, I wouldn't change my approach, which has been consistent for 18 years. I'm proud of the consistency, and I know I don't repeat myself, even with with more than 67,000 posts.
Joe Smith: men can't give birth. Read before you yap and conflate.
'Joe Smith: men can't give birth. Read before you yap and conflate.'
According to the left they can...it's the new normal.
I like the 'old' rules but it seems I'm being overwhelmed by communists these days...
Inga said...
It’s interesting how we are hearing more commentary calling women sluts.
Well, Inga, what is the proper and easily understood term for a woman who will happily have sex with lots of men she wants nothing to do with after the sex is done?
And what about what Sarah Molina said does NOT led you to believe she's that kind of person, or at least was pre-Dobbs?
Joe Smith: I doubt you have done 1/1000 of what I have done in academia and the political and legal worlds to defend the old ways. Yet you take my words to illustrate the very things I oppose. Be accurate. Or sober up.
Achilles @1:15pm,
Heck, these days The Grauniad is it more honest and reliable source of news then the Times or WaPo.
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