From "With higher inflation, living with your parents makes economic sense/Let’s stop joking about young adults living in their parents’ basement/Financial independence doesn’t have to come with a monthly rent payment" by Michelle Singletary (WaPo).
Singletary is a personal finance columnist. She has virtually nothing to say about the social development of young adults, and her son and daughter — in their 20s — seems to be diligently working and squirreling away money. Presumably, they behave within a range that fits the parents' conventions, and the financial boom would be lowered if they did not. But, she says, her son is "lovely" and he walks the dog. There's no adjective like "lovely" attached to the daughter, perhaps because it's presumed that daughters will be docile, perhaps because mom wanted to elbow her toward increased loveliness.
Singletary assures us that kids in this phase are not suffering from "arrested development," but who knows how they'd develop if they lived outside of the surveillance of their parents? But, sure, privacy and independence may pale in comparison to painful economic need. And now I'm picturing devious politicians swarming in the backroom, celebrating these economic hard times.
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61 comments:
We've been joking about adult living at home since before the turn of the century.
The driving force was crushing student load debt. Something the Government, baited and switched them into amassing.
Can't buy a house, or pay rent, and, service your college debt.
The writer is looking at way to excuse, inexcusable behavior.
This makes a massive amount of sense on a family farm or running a family business.
It might also make sense in a family with a tremendous work ethic and spirit of cooperation.
For many, though, it would result in arrested development.
I also imagine it would be very difficult for those who went away to college to suddenly be back home under their parents rules.
The parents who can do this well are setting their kids up for massive advantages. That’s probably rare.
Independence versus familiality. Either way something is gained and something is lost. How to judge?
All I can say is all those Bidens and Finnegans living together cheek and jowl seventy years ago don't make a good case for extended families living together.
Familiality. Is that the word for it? Is there a better word for it?
Ugh. Seems like professional grade excuses for the fact that their kids don't have the ability to go out into the world and face life. That life is sometimes a struggle seems like something the parents are trying to hide from these kids.
Look- I'm locked out from reading the article, but I'm assuming these people are well off. That their kids went to great schools, had everything they've ever needed. Went to high level universities where they paid too much to get a degree that is not working out to actually make a living. Or the kids had to take out massive loans to pay the artificially high tuitions and room and board at the universities so that the administrators and Directors of DEI could live like US Senators, attending well-honed cocktail parties while their former students live at home with their parents paying off the administrator's salaries.
Either way, once you get the generation living at home with their parents, the next step, once the parents can no longer take care of them, is for the government to step in and offer to take care of them. Which is what will happen. Remember Life of Julia under Barack Obama's vision? It's a view of the world by those currently running things.
Until fairly modern times, it was normal and expected for adult children to remain living at home while they established themselves, often even after they married. Children leaving the home at adulthood was largely a function of people moving from farming/rural areas to cities/urban areas as agricultural advances made their labor unnecessary and industrialization provided employment for them.
Married at 20, two children by 23, 5 grandchildren by 56, comfortably retired at 64. The only way I can see to have it all as defined by my wife and I is to get an early start. Sure, sex was our only entertainment during our early years, but we weren't complaining!
Lovely? That’s a Brit word per Dennis Quaid in “The Parent Trap” Lindsay Lohan edition.
The baby formula shortage and this insane inflation - especially in oil and natgas - was all avoidable. The fucking idiots in the Biden Administration are the proximate cause. Hell, I could lower WTI by 20% in a month.
I say impeach Biden and Harris as the same time. Make McCarthy president. There’s a real insurrection.
One need not go very far back in time to find that it was common for children to live at home until marriage for economic and cultural reasons. The cultural reasons centered on preventing children from a wayward lifestyle, which could hurt their standing as an acceptable marriage partner to upstanding folks. Not bad intentions at all, but considered repressive by today’s anything goes standards.
I used to tease my kids that on their 18th birthday I change the locks on the doors and they don't get the key, but that is not how I am really handling it. I have 4 adult children ages 18-22, so this issue is real for me now. All are in college, so we are their home base. 2 are living on campus, and so I think they are developing their independence. A third is actually living with her Grandfather a mile away. She also has more independence that way.
I certainly don't expect my kids to live at home into their 30's! I expect that most will be married and thus should "leave their father and mother". Also, before someone can run their own household, they need experience doing it. Not leaving home until you get married could put added stress on a young marriage because you have not learned how to budget and manage things. I also will charge all my kids rent and have them pay their expenses if they are not actively pursing higher education. It will be less than market, but it will teach them the value of things. I would expect them to also put money away. If they are instead living a lavish lifestyle and taking advantage of us (I hope that I have taught them better, and all sighs point that I have), then I would also send them on to their independent living sooner.
In a decade or so, we will get stories of how parents who paid the bills for kids to continue to live in the house, failed to save for retirement and can't afford to retire.
One cannot become an adult without leaving one's parents' home. One does not age into adulthood.
There is nothing quite so soul sucking as poverty. It is hard to overcome it. Our housing prices now are ridiculous and almost only obtainable by the “elite” educated.
Of course she says stop making fun of them. They're her kids and she wants to protect them from the harsh world.
Does it make her proud of her kids that they can't be self-sufficient in this world despite 20 years of preparation? Is she worried they will fail and it will reflect poorly on her parenting?
Can her son be proud of himself? Is that important?
Do we need more mothering in our adulthood?
How does this affect her daughter's potential partners? Is it any man's idea of an independent life if his partner's mom is in control, that is, any man other than another adult boy living at home with his parents?
What does this say about how the country is going? What has changed?
It's not really an argument about smart financial strategies. You could just as easily say it would be financially beneficial if they stayed through their 40s or later.
I lived at home for 3 out of 4 years of college and the first couple of years of graduate school. Economic need. It didn't kill me. Rather, it set me up for a lifetime of financial stability, as is described here.
Huh. Our daughter lived on her own in New Orleans for 4 years getting her master's degree. When she graduated we let her come and live at home while she looked for work in her field. At the time mainly because she would have trouble living on her own while working at a coffee shop. Eventually she got her dream job working at our state's flagship university with a good starting salary.
Now we're letting her live at home while she saves and are *mostly* happy to do so. Although even if she saves like crazy for a year she will have a hard time affording a home given the current state of the market.
I understand the logic of the article. But to be honest there's another side of this coin which is that my wife and I grew to enjoy our "empty nest". We have our own rhythms and routines and didn't have to worry about twenty-something daughter. We get along but to be frank there's occasional drama. I should add that one benefit of a live-at-home-adult-child is we've been a one car family since 2015(?) and sometimes it's nice to have that second car (mainly car in the shop, grocery runs, rides to/from airport).
I've offered my adult children the chance to live at home, and I'd enjoy their company if they did. I think it's important to give them that option. However, three of my four children have declined and live independently. My youngest still lives here, and she's a blessing. My elderly father lives with us, and extra eyes on him are a welcome relief.
Does the article address multi-generational living? I'm skeptical that it does.
Obama started this with the 26 year old rule for Obamacare. Adulthood is slipping away for the young. Fortunately, my kids grew up before this.
Hey, you arranged their freakin' "play dates;" armored them in high-impact polystyrene so they wouldn't get a booboo; chauffeured them to school every day to protect them from the boogeyman; did their homework for them; gave them their participation trophies for doing nothing of note...so sure, why not continue to carry them and coddle them, for the first ten years of their adult lives? Because, you know, this is the first time in history that fledgling adults have had to head out into the world in tough economic times...
What she is trying to tell us is that thanks to Brandon the US is heading towards third world status where children can’t afford to live on their own.
With inflation at a 40-year-high, it just makes economic sense for adult children to live at home for several years.... I feel for the men who are ridiculed for still living at home — and for the daughters who feel pressured to leave. My husband and I have taken a different tack with our children. We have begged them to live at home.
And with our nerves in an all time state of rawness, Mrs. NorthOfTheOneOhOne and I are begging ours to get the Hell out as fast as they can.
You will own nothing and like it...
Not having to pay rent for 10 years while fully employed could be a huge financial boon, but she’s encouraging young adults to wait far too long to begin their adult lives. She is far less likely to have grandchildren than if she encouraged her children to be more independent in their 20’s. Of course, not having children will also make economic freedom easier, if that’s your biggest goal in life.
Yeah- whatever the familial center decides, right? No hard and fast rules.
What I think is bring under evaluated are the numbers of older/old people living alone and their desire/need to remain independent. Lots of different scenarios could be hatched into cohabitation w/younger folks who seek shelter w/maybe a bit of scratching e/others backs, so to speak. Shopping, rides to the dr, some maintenance around the house- living pretty rent free but sharing the amenities, you follow?
I’m sure there are programs like this- a match dot com for companionship? It seems better than living at Mom and Dad’s b/c of the psychology of it all…
It makes me sad and a little angry that community is dying as a way of existence. If it takes a village- then act like it takes a village. Not a taxed governmental feed trough or handout…
We told our 2 kids when they were in high school that they better stay out of trouble because we have college money saved up but not bail money. We told them that they get 4 years of college tuition paid, then they were off the payroll.
We got "lucky." Both did STEM majors, both got 6 figure jobs after grad school (that they financed themselves), both married with kids. Both happy to see us, either at our house or theirs.
I recall that I had a similar deal with my parents back in the last millennium. I needed money for professional school after college. It literally did not occur to me to ask my parents for more funding. I made it through with some penny pinching.
Yes things are more expensive today, but doing without is not an option for many of today's young people There are way more resources for them also.
No one will ever learn to solve everyday problems when mom and dad are doing it for them.
Get them out of the house.
Chores. Responsibilities. When young adults used to live with their parents, and sometimes grandparents, until marriage and sometimes even after, they were expected to contribute to the household in meaningful ways - walking the dog is dandy, but what about cleaning the gutters?
We weren't great about chores when our kids were little, for various reasons that mostly came down to our laziness (easier and faster for me to load the dishwasher than to teach the kids how to do it and then continually check up on their efforts, redoing as necessary). I'm not proud of this. But when they reached high school, they got a bump in allowance, had to start paying for almost everything but groceries and their back-to-school outfit, had to do their own laundry, clean their own bathroom and bedroom (to my standards whenever I chose to inspect), and learn to cook by swapping off on making one dinner a week. It worked okay, I'd say; they still have an easier time than we did growing up (I had more chores and less money), but the oldest is fully launched and independent since college graduation including funding his 401(k), the middle one is in college in an apartment and cooks for herself every day, and the youngest, now 18 and graduating from high school, just took care of himself and the dog for a week while my husband and I were out of town, and the house was standing and the dishes were clean when we returned. So I'll take that.
We're fortunate to be able to pay for our kids' education. My husband's rule has been while in college, you can live at home for free in the summer, or you can live somewhere else and pay for it yourself. (Pursuing a trade didn't come up with our kids, but I imagine his rule would have applied to training time.) Our older two have both chosen, as college has gone on, to live away during their latter summers, and it's a stretch but they've made it work. Our youngest - we don't know what he'll choose to do, but he knows the rule.
...it's presumed that daughters will be docile...
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, (Breath) ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha! No comment on that little remark!
Both my kids (daughter, son) started working while in high school. They have been working ever since, except daughter lived with us when she had the grandson and she became eligible for free post-HS education after the plant she worked at closed down. Son lived at home for most of the time while pursuing his higher education, but also worked part-time. Both kids now own their own homes and don't depend on Mom and Dad.
Singletary is an extremist Christian who argues against incurring any debt whatsoever. As in, don't buy a house until you can pay cash. Unless one shares her religious views, her financial advice is worse than useless.
I wanted my adult son along with his wife and my granddaughter to live with me in my very large house. They were in an upstairs apartment with no yard and very few windows. I spent lots of money to improve the space they would be living in. Alas it only lasted for a few months. Due to alcohol abuse and fighting amongst themselves and blaming me for their problems, they moved out again. To me the situation was ideal, I was cooking for them every day, doing their laundry, babysitting when needed, and best of all I got to spend a lot of time with them. The fights were surreal, police were called on several occasions. Now I am persona non grata. Sometimes these situations just don't work out well. Of course after they moved out they left their inconvenient dog with me LOL.
"Our housing prices now are ridiculous and almost only obtainable by the “elite” educated."
Depends on where you want to live. In metro Detroit, you can get decent house for 100K still. And in Detroit, you can get it for well below that.
My sisters 27 year old kid has lived at home in Boston since after he returned from one year at college. He finally graduated last year, but with 60K in debt. AFAIK, he doesn't have any ambition about getting out on his own, and his mother aids and abets it. He could probably afford an apartment with roomates, but definitely not a house.
Him and his siblings are counting on loan forgiveness I think. Good luck with that!
Should charge rent and a share of the other household expenses. Then just put the money in an account, unbeknownst to the kid, to give to them later. The purpose it to pay their own way. I know for me, in my first apartment in college at 19, realizing I had to meet the utilities, rent, etc., every month on the month was a maturing moment.
Of course, Lindybeige makes a good point that students should not be rich, should have limited money and have to budget as part of their educational experience.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4LXgMVlLC4
why basement? as a joke?
if the kids also grew up in the house don't they have own rooms too?
I say impeach Biden and Harris as the same time. Make McCarthy president. There’s a real insurrection.
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and then >>> I say impeach McCarthy . Make anybody president. There’s a real insurrection.
" who knows how they'd develop if they lived outside of the surveillance of their parents?"
Yeah, parents are the worst. If it wasn't for that helicoptering bitch Singletary, they'd both probably have a whole new set of taxpayer-funded genitalia, and no chance whatsoever of having children. Parents ruin everything.
People lived in extended families, including grandparents, for centuries. They still do in many places.
There are many ways to mature. And there is ample evidence that many of the youth who move out at 18 or 21 are in no way growing into responsible adulthood.
Most of my mother's sisters lived in the same house as our grandparents when they were young marrieds. One couple moved next door, another nearby. It was very beneficial for all of them, as they could lean on each other in hard times and sickness, and family was the center of their lives. A full household often offers less neurotic interdependence and monitoring than a typical nuclear family far from kin. My cousins had a healthy sense of independence and a joyful sense of family commitment. It's not all about money.
It's not a bad idea to keep living at home, but it isn't ideal. Part of becoming an adult is to be able to do things that you think that your parent's wouldn't approve of.
What I did was keep living with my college roommates after I graduated from college. Real estate and rents are extremely expensive here in Southern California. After a few years, we pooled our money and bought a house. When we sold it seven years later, we each had enough equity for down payments for our own houses.
I left home at 18 and never went back. I was 2000 miles from home so I was on my own. My kids (4 of 5) went to college and graduated. I paid for the first degree. The rest was on them. Two are lawyers (and lefties) so we avoid politics. My lawyer daughter has moved back with her mother which is sort of an old tradition with unmarried daughters. My younger son, who is the only one without a college degree, is doing very well and close to retirement as a firemen. He is now in an administrative job which means he has every weekend off. His kids are teens, one is in college at U of Alabama. None of my kids lived with me after high school. I helped them with buying cars, etc, but they were all independent. I have trouble understanding this living with parents once you are an adult. My stepson builds houses in Oregon and his three sons lived with him until they married. They also worked for him building houses.
People lived in extended families, including grandparents, for centuries. They still do in many places.
Most of that was agriculture related. Agricultural families, in the age before machinery, were very dependent on help from children. My great grandfather had 12 children, 9 of them sons. All grew up to adulthood and worked for him until they married. When they married, he gave them a farm, gave them half and loaned them half. With the loans, he bought more land. Eventually, most of the county were his family.
Narayanan said...
why basement? as a joke?
if the kids also grew up in the house don't they have own rooms too?
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Did they pay for the house? Did they pay to insure it, decorate it, and maintain it?
Alas, an article not hidden, unlike NYT, behind a paywall ! The comments on that are interesting---adults all living together under one roof, and the various reasons why, sometimes financial, sometimes not.
Makes me think of a situation I told years ago on this Blog: In my old suburb, there were two older ladies living together, no children, no pets, and no visitors ever, it seemed. Me being a classic nosy neighbor-- dying to find out the household relationship between these two women in their late 70s, early 80s?--were they sisters, companions, something else altogether?
Well, I never did get up the courage to ask outright. In a small town, it would probably be well known right down to the exact sleeping arrangements, but this being a suburb adjacent to a large urban area----just have to accept that nobody knows anything about the neighbors or their mode of living.
Here's a similar but different perspective.
Got married while in grad school, moved in with my wife's parents, who did not charge us rent. Got a job, saved money, had our first child, kept saving, had twins, all while living with the in-laws. Then built a house and an in-law apartment. Moved to new home, the in-laws moved into the apartment, and they sold the old house to help us pay down the mortgage.
The extended family solution, and no social retardation of the kids. Bonus: unlimited free babysitting with grandparents so handy.
"why basement? as a joke?"
Seriously? Have you always lived in a mansion? The basement offers a modicum of privacy, which the ground level of a small house does not.
I read articles (and many comments) with a sense of unreality.
I (brother 2 of 4) got out of my widowed mother's house as soon as I could--first time for a freshman summer, but then a year or so later out for good. I left behind two younger brothers, who never left at all, and the periodic emergency returns of my worthless older brother, who had many experiences but never learned from them.
My wife (who left home when we got married after college graduation) and I rented for our first ten years, with the exception of a three-week term trying to live with my senile Oma in her very nice house. That didn't work, and she remained alone and senile for the next four years, with me as conservator.
My mother never charged anything to my younger brothers, who both worked and had decent incomes themselves, and it suited the three of them, especially as she got older and less well. (Our idiot brother, in his inimitable fashion, once calculated that our mother -owed- him a sum equivalent to the rents that the younger brothers would have paid if they lived
on their own . . . We all laughed in his face. He OD'd on May 13 2004. Good riddance.)
Our son was gone for a semester of college, flunked out, and was back for a year or so in the nicer house we bought in 2006, long after raising him in a small one. His landlord has offered him and his roommate a great deal for purchase, but he hasn't the resources and job tenure to get approval, and my wife and I don't have the money to help.
My youngest brother, who lives alone now in the house we grew up in (brother #3 died 2010), has more ready money but is not inclined to help out either.
My wife and I have taken over the various bedrooms (one for us, one is my game lair, the smallest is the 'office' where I sit now, and the big den at the other end, which was son's room when he was here, is now mostly her gym, and storage.
Since whatever is left of our or my brother's wealth will devolve on him eventually, he can look after himself until then.
Her approach would not have worked with me very well. I would have stayed, being lovely and walking the dog, for decades. Instead, my mother moved out of the apartment shortly after I turned 18 (and I was not invited to join her and her boyfriend). Some young people simply have to be kicked out of the nest.
"With inflation at a 40-year-high"
I'm curious what the author thinks is going to happen to home prices for the 12 years she wants her kids to live with her (assuming they are adults at 18).
According to the Federal Reserve, the median home price in the United States is $428,000 (one presumes this would buy a 3-bedroom, 2-bath home on 1 acre or less).
In 12 years, at 8.7% inflation, that home will cost $1,164,000. Assuming inflation stops rising right now (and it's not stopping rising right now.)
Those kids' salaries will NOT rise that much during this time period. They are ONLY getting poorer with the passage of time. The only solution is for them to buy a house NOW, so they are getting the benefit of these rising house prices. A dollar saved now is LOSING value. So don't save dollars. Spend them.
It is expensive now, but I'd bet these kids won't know what is going to hit them. Tens of millions of illegals already taxing the government for housing, healthcare, schooling and welfare are one thing. Several million more during Biden's administration additive. Then, feature the costs to capture, arrest, incarcerate then process the bad apples (at least). The kid's future is for shit. All they can look forward to is paying off debt, and the occasional suicide bombing. As mentioned upthread, they will own nothing and like it.
At that point, Fentanyl will make a great deal of sense.
One fine example illustrates... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhDfMfV7Zf0
Tucker clarifies it.
Please note the condescension towards the public, "After all, we’ve been conditioned to think you’re not a real adult until you have your own place."
If the public holds an opinion that differs from that of the Washington Post columnist, it is because they have been "conditioned to think" it.
'In 12 years, at 8.7% inflation, that home will cost $1,164,000. Assuming inflation stops rising right now (and it's not stopping rising right now.)'
If Dems can keep killing all the babies then the demand for homes will dry up and the prices will fall.
I don't see how you can pursue the process of being in your 20s/30s living at home with your parents. I can see needing to do it — for example if you are poor and a single parent and your parents will help you with childcare — but doing it just to put a lot of money away seems like a choice to toss away your youth as valueless.
Brian said...
" In a decade or so, we will get stories of how parents who paid the bills for kids to continue to live in the house, failed to save for retirement and can't afford to retire."
Yea, I've seen people do that. If we are well acquainted, I suggest a more focused approach to their own retirement years, might be a consideration.
Every financial planner I've ever talked to always ask in a back door sort of way what we are doing to aid adult children or parents. When I say nothing, they often share how many have skewed goals.
We have become entirely much too, a child centered society, I don't think it is a healthy society.
Our adult kids (and two of their friends) have lived with us, off and on, since graduating from college. It was a sensible response to various circumstances. Two months here, six months there, always with a clear goal in mind. They set their own schedules and we stayed out of their business. Steady boyfriends/girlfriends were welcome to stay overnight.
It's an interesting question as to whether it would have been a bad idea for them to stay for years, through their twenties. I think yes, but with enough freedom given by the parents (and responsible saving on the part of the child) it could be a reasonable trade-off.
Some one mentioned farm families may have adult children live at home.
Not so much in the midwest, Iowa at least. It is rare. Usually there are enough acreages for a son or daughter to set up independent living.
Reminded me of a story about farm culture though
Father came into the house and found his son looking at the platt book. (its a county wide book of maps that identifies the owner of every parcel of land outside city limits)
The father seeing the platt book, asked his son what he was looking for. The boy without looking up said, "a wife".
"I don't see how you can pursue the process of being in your 20s/30s living at home with your parents. I can see needing to do it — for example if you are poor and a single parent and your parents will help you with childcare — but doing it just to put a lot of money away seems like a choice to toss away your youth as valueless."
I did it to get a Ph.D. in my chosen field. I did not toss away my youth, I established my career. I am happy with my choice.
Did they pay for the house? Did they pay to insure it, decorate it, and maintain it?
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I am not wading into the financial aspects - just the accommodative real estate available
I think it is a good idea for children to live at home until they get married. It is not just about saving money. It is giving a person who is still maturing access to what is hopefully a stable family life.
Not just "no", but "heck no". I got over my "empty nest" syndrome after about 3 months following my younger son moving to college. Then, I redecorated their rooms and moved on.
My youngest and his wife along with the grandchildren did eventually move back to our property. But, they built their own place and are financially independent from us. There was no need for them to buy land for building when we had some available and they are employed locally. It's nice to see the grandchildren often and my son is available to help out his dad with projects, etc. But, they are not moving back into our home. Hubby and son are both Type A personalities. There would be chaos!
No. Living on your own forces you to perform. No one will improve if they can't fail.
SpaceX almost went bankrupt. Now it's profitable and launching payloads for costs no one thought possible.
Blue Origin is subsidized by Amazon and Bezos. It has done nothing significant. We launched Alan Shepard suborbitally 61 years ago.
So, yeah, leave home if you want to be an adult. Let mom move in when she's really old if you want... with your name on the deed.
I should add the context, that we only had the nice new 3br/2ba because my father was well insured and my mother was wise enough to pay off the mortgage. She worked temp and part-time jobs until my youngest brother got to 7th grade (which took too long, for good reasons) and then taught herself to speed type. Got a job at IRS in data entry and retired after 20 from a more responsible position as a 6 or 7.
We had my father's social security and veteran's survivor bennies too. SS stopped IIRC at 18. The VA would pay college student survivors (me! over here!) a little until they were 22, and that helped too. God bless the 60s social safety net.
I made my own spending money for the most part, from about 13 on, and for the next 30 years or so it was a rare season I wasn't working and going to school at the same time.
My son has proven no scholar, but he has worked since high school. We didn't charge him for the year in the den, and I had to pay his rent a few times since (not recently) but he's making OK money at the cabinetry place and is close to paying off the used CR-V he got in 2018.
All to say, everyone's circumstances are different, and I try not to judge. Personally the thought of living with another adult other than my wife is a downer, relative or not.
Tom T. @ 11:546am,
I'd say it's horrendously bad advice even if you do share her religious views.
Temujin @ 9:23am,
"... Directors of DEI... "
Ummmm, you misspelled DIE.
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