"What, exactly, was different about this one? Is warmed-over critical theory prohibited now? And why does anyone care?... The View is a talk show, and a particularly stupid one to boot.... I simply do not understand the mechanism by which viewers are supposed to be damaged in some way by watching an actress make mistakes on live TV.... In its statement, ABC insisted that 'the culture at ABC News is one that is driven, kind, inclusive, respectful, and transparent.' Okay... [but] Goldberg’s only crime was 'being wrong in public' — an eventuality that is all-but guaranteed to arise when we televise spontaneous political debate. Why have such productions if we intend to police them like this? Bit by bit, and mob by mob, we are destroying our open culture and the organizations that we have constructed to serve it."
Writes Charles C.W. Cooke, in "Whoopi Goldberg’s Suspension from The View Is Illiberal and Irrational" (National Review).
The link on "critical theory" goes to an Andrew Sullivan tweet: "Goldberg's basic point is classic CRT: if it's 'white people' vs 'white people,' i.e. Jews, it cannot be racism."
The link on "particularly stupid one" goes to Cooke's own article, "Whoopi Goldberg’s Nonsensical Abortion Rant." In response to Justice Alito's statement that "the fetus has an interest in having a life and that doesn’t change... from the point before viability to the point after viability," Goldberg had said: "How dare you talk about what a fetus wants? You have no idea." Sample comment from Cooke: "Is she arguing that, as a rule, unborn children might be suicidal, and that abortion is doing them a favor?"
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So about Rosanne?
Rosanne had more viewers than the View I believe as well.
Dang! Whoopi's put on a bunch of weight!
I simply do not understand the mechanism by which viewers are supposed to be damaged in some way by watching an actress make mistakes on live TV....
Cooke's just being an asshole here. He knows well enough that looking bad on TV is the one humiliation these people cannot bear.
Hitler just believed that Jews had heritable traits that weakened the nation, cunning deception being foremost. He complained about it in Mein Kampf, e.g. when arguing with Jews they'd never remember that he won the same argument on the previous day. They're smart enough to argue but cunning in misremembering the results.
A lot of the cunning would be taught, e.g. in Talmudic studies; and you've got to be smart to do it.
That's not a race exactly, foremost today by racism always being towards people that are dumber that you are (hence blacks can't be racist; and refusing to admit Asians can't be racist either).
So it's not even wrong, what she said, but curiously it's still incorrect and cancellable to say that. She's got to apologize where what would be called for is an explanation and expansion. Showing her work. There's so much to learn from that.
I'm surprised he didn't call it RACISM. What about when you get fired for saying that one of your friends is NOT a RACIST...like Sharon Osborne was?? SHE didn't say anything stupid at all, she just defended a friend.
There's something not being discussed here which arguably - and controversially - is missing the perfect opportunity for discussion:
Are Jews 'white' or aren't they?
To anybody who pays attention, there's a lot of clown nose on clown nose off regarding this subject within the Jewish community itself. One day, Jewish people/a Jewish person will say "I'm white" and the next day, month, or year they will will change their identity to 'Jewish'. So many Jews make Jewish an either/or/both/and however it suits them whenever such identity is necessary to make or secure cache for arguments sake, only to discard it like changing a pair of pants.
So, which is it? ADL? AIPAC? Who speaks for Jews and Judaism on the subject of being 'white' one day and 'Jewish' the next?
One sympathizes with the thought - except that Goldberg was the biggest proponent of Cancel Culture on TV. No sympathy for those Jan 6th "Insurrectionists" either.
So, hard to care. Sometimes no matter how hard you clap for Comrade Stalin, you end up in the Gulag yourself.
Sads.
Forget it Jake, he's a NeverTrumper. He's working for the enemy.
The person that asked Goldberg to take 2 weeks off for calling Nazi's a white person thing is named Kim Godwin.
You can't make this shit up.
Hannity was going on and on about how he doesn't believe in boycotts just because the other side does it.
Is he joking?
It's a street fight, and the reason republicans/independents/libertarians/conservatives keep getting their asses kicked is because they have some warped, misplaced sense of honor.
Start fighting or die.
Leftists know this.
I would like to hear what Gina Carano has to say about all of this.
But I would be more interested in what her lawyers have to say.
I don't think anyone should worry about whether Nazism is racism or not. But I saw someone point out here that Goldberg's comment really sounded like, I don't have to care since it's not racism. Kill each other, white people!
If so, it was nasty. But the article is right. Stupid people saying stupid stuff. Chill. Better yet, don't watch stupid shows that feature stupid people saying stupid stuff. Life's too short.
I've never watched The View, I was subjected to The Talk occasionally while visiting my mother. What I remember most from seeing The View is the panel denouncing somebody for being an alleged child molester and then right after that praising Michael Jackson. I've got to assume that the people on The View must at least match that level of vapid empty headedness.
In its statement, ABC insisted that 'the culture at ABC News is one that is driven, kind, inclusive, respectful, and transparent.'
F off, ABC.
Watch snips of The progressive View fem-o-nazis attempting to give anyone not A Democrat a fair shake. It's a hate-filled bullshit session.
Google the Rand Paul goes on the View interview. Go on...
Roseanne lost everything over a stupid joke. I just want a level playing field.
The View is one of many reasons our culture is stupid and full of rot.
Whoopi Goldberg deserves to be censured, but not over being stupid about the Holocaust. Lots of people are stupid about the Holocaust. What no honorable person should let stand is her effort to minimize the pain and suffering of Roman Polanski’s 13 year anal rape victim. That feminists never dragged Whoopi kicking and screaming out of her studios to be anally raped with oversized dildos will forever be to the shame of feminism.
In theme I agree with him, but the alternative is to lie back and take it, which I cannot abide. The other side doesn't appear to be slowing down in collecting their PC scalps so holding them to the same standards appears to be the only way to combat it. Sure, MAD between the US and USSR spiraled into being along the same lines of logic, but hell, that worked out pretty well, didn't it?
If ABC allowed a real conservative on the show -to balance the other 3 progressive ninnies - perhaps the real conservative could actually, you know, provide a viable argument.
nah.
The funniest thing about this whole debacle, is that ABC considers The View as part of their News division. Tells you ALL you need to know about ABC News.
It's always helpful to see someone like Cooke serve up a large helping of ridicule and sarcasm to show a better way to deal with whatever is today's exemplar of bad-speak than the usual 'cancel her' insanity. But those promoting that insanity are slow learners, and so the process of educating them to the better way may require that many more ostensibly lefty fellow-travelers must first be sacrificed before the lesson sinks in.
I agree.
The main lesson should be....there is no reason to listen to Whoopi Goldberg. She has her own opinions, some tremendously ill informed. What she and any of her compatriots at The View say is unimportant fluff. Nobody serious should go on her stupid show, and nobody important should report her utterances as news.
Not because of a boycott, but because people with their faces on tv for a living aren't any more important than anyone else, and we need to stop elevating them. And also because you will be a happier person if you don't watch The View. It is not adding joy to your life.
Writes Charles C.W. Cooke: “In its statement, ABC insisted that 'the culture at ABC News is one that is driven, kind, inclusive, respectful, and transparent.”.
I would say that the token conservatives on “The View” would dispute the “kind, inclusive, and respectful” part of that comment, especially Meghan McCain since the other panelists treated her like s**t on an off camera. Although the other panelists are certainly “transparent” of their disdain over the years of the lone conservative panelist. I did see the clip from Nov. 2021 of visiting conservative panelist Morgen Ortagus where she asked tough and legitimate questions of Adam Schiff (D-CA) that no one else on The View or elsewhere that forced him to try to answer that he should be answering. I would guess that Ms. Otagus will never be invited back to “The View” in her lifetime for straying outside her lane.
"Whoopi Goldberg’s Suspension from The View Is Illiberal and Irrational"
Certainly not irrational. For the moment, even progs have to feign concern over the Holocaust, if only so the they can accuse Israel of being Nazi-like toad the Palestinians, so suspending "Goldberg" signals useful virtue.
Maybe a tiny bit illiberal. But then, there was nothing liberal, in the old sense of liberal, about The View or about ABC or about any of the current MSM to begin with, so suspending is nothing peculiar and just another corporate power move. And even if ABC wanted to practice liberal liberality, it could set some limits to stupidity.
I disagree with Cooke. People generally shouldn't be fired/suspended for saying stupid things that don't affect their job responsibilities. But The View (amazingly) is a production of ABC News, whose ostensible mission is to provide accurate information and informed commentary relative to the issues of the day. If Cooke thinks that nobody should pay any attention to what Whoopi says because she's just a vapid actress, then he should really be calling upon ABC to fire her on that basis, not just suspend her for two weeks for this particular misstep.
The important thing about The View is the V for vagina. V even works as a sketch. They should make it part of the logo if they haven't already.
The question is not "Should Caryn Johnson* (aka Whoopi Goldberg) be cancelled for saying something painfully stupid?"
The question is "Why, given the endless stream of stupid things said on The View, has the whole show not been cancelled?"
*I'm still laughing over the fact that, phonetically speaking, she's a "Karen."
@MikeR .. that's been my position.
Debating what to call Nazi (or anybody's) Jew-hate is something of a distraction.
If there's anything particularly unique about the Holocaust, it's that it was carried by a (relatively) liberal democratic society that very rapidly went off the rails and managed to demonize entire groups to the point of committing mass murder on a truly industrial scale.
Debating what to call it is comfortable. Recognizing how that much of that situation applies to Western democracies right now is not.
IMO Whoopi should take the two weeks learning a little about Jewish history, and the people she claims she so deeply admires. That way she won't make the mistake of minimizing the murder of half the world's Jews, thinking they were white people fighting other white people as if the Jews decided to start a war against the Germans. That's not a small mistake. That's insanity. They say you can't fix stupid but at least she should try. And maybe she should knock off smoking so much weed if that has affected her brain.
A lot of Jews claim to be nonwhite now so it's getting really confusing. Like my high school friend, from a family of red-headed, freckle-faced Polish Jews who emigrated 100 years ago. She's not white now?
I don't get it.
And Whoopi chose "Goldberg" as part of her name and claimed to be part Jewish, until she found out otherwise. Is that racist or antisemitic or what now?
Henceforth, a two-week "vacation" given to a liberal who says something stupid and has to be given a slap on the wrist shall be known as a "Whoopi cusion."
He is correct that it is "illiberal and irrational." The problem is we have been living with "illiberal and irrational" for at least a decade, fully supported by our elites and all "right thinking" people, trumpeted to the heavens by the main stream media, enforced by big business in a quasi-government role, and taught by our institutions of higher "learning." This is the society that Whoopi wanted. She just wanted to be immune to it. It is good to be the king, but the position is filled by legion.
I have not read the article. That said, I bet there is something in there that conservatives should not support this because we wouldn't want it used against conservatives, completely ignoring that it has been used against conservatives freely and openly over and over again with no signs of stopping and no consequences to the champions of cancel culture. Please stop asking me to conserve things that no longer exist.
Five dumbass Karens thinking the same left wing thoughts is not helping any dialogue in this country. Even Meghan McCain's half-baked Neoconism was deemed too right wing for these women.
Goldberg had said [about abortion]: "How dare you talk about what a fetus wants? You have no idea."
If that isn't convincing, I don't know what is.
By the way, the people who recently have been murdered -- and I mean those people who prior to their murder were adults living outside anyone's womb -- if they aren't on the record a short time before their murder saying they don't want to be killed, does Whoopi's argument apply to them, too? Should one of the elements of murder be that the victim desired to continue living?
For the record, I don't want to be killed. Just in case.
Also, don't take advice from someone named Whoopi.
The Holocaust was not, as Goldberg put it, about ‘man’s inhumanity to man.’ It was about man’s genocide of Jews.
Whoopxi continued, “These are two white groups of people.”
"This is the version of the Holocaust that Goldberg and her cohorts agree children should be taught. A butchered, ahistorical, Americanized, watered-down, downright incorrect version of the Holocaust, in which white people were being – I guess – unkind towards one another.
It reaches new depths of a pernicious desire to favor intersectionality over accepting Jews as a minority. Even worse, it’s an argument that gives modern-day attacks on Jews the green light.
As far back as September 1919, Adolf Hitler issued a statement in which he defined Jews as a race, specifically a “race-tuberculosis of the peoples.” His ideology urged a superior Aryan race, exclusive of Jews. That was by definition racist.
If race is a social construct, the Nazis believed in a hierarchy of races, in which they were superlative and the Jews were lesser. Not just lesser, the Jews were subhuman vermin. "
[hang on -this next bit is great]
"Ignoring this inconvenient historical truth is in line with the current agenda of U.S. corporate media – a navel-gazing, arrogant, and U.S.-centric schedule that promotes that all global events must be interpreted through American racial tropes, often weaponized behind the mouthpieces of “people of color,” who are the gatekeepers of the definition of racism."
I just want to watch the world burn. And I am enjoying watching the liberals burn down their side. It's so schadenfreude-alicious. Faster please. Unfortunately I think it's going to take another decade or more before there is a reboot. Probably going to be a violent civil war and destruction of the United States too.
We've been advising against the leftie approach for decades but there seems to be no changing it. Pretty convinced dissolution/civil war are now unavoidable with more than 50% of citizens believing it's coming (depends on the poll - but a surprisingly high percentage). With that many believing it will happen, it becomes self-fulfilling.
Too bad we cant have an amicable national divorce. I think the right would go for one, but the lefties wont...and so war it will be.
Writes Charles C.W. Cooke, in "Whoopi Goldberg’s Suspension from The View Is Illiberal and Irrational" (National Review).
Yeah, this would be why I completely stopped reading NR.
Canceling people on the Right? No big deal.
"Canceling" someone on the Left? Now THAT is wrong.
I don't know where Charlie's had his head buried for teh last couple years, but I really don't care, either.
One set of rules for everyone. Since I could get fired / have my life destroyed for saying something as obnoxious to the Left as Whoopi's comment was to ever decent person, she should get nailed to the wall
Yes yes keep talking Progressives! Nothing has advanced the clarity of CRT thinking so much as Whoopi's explication of how the Nazis weren't racist because they "targeted white people." That is a core tenet CRT: that only whites are racist and discriminating against whites is deliciously anti-racist. Please please let this "knitting circle from Hell" that is Da View keep talking. America learns from their mistakes.
One thing to keep in mind when discussing fire/not fire Whoopi options; The View fired Sharon Osborne for defending Piers Morgan after he let his opinions be known on the Oprah/Meghan/Harry interview. He said nothing anywhere as bad as this.
The funniest thing about this whole debacle, is that ABC considers The View as part of their News division. Tells you ALL you need to know about ABC News.
If they called it ABC Agitprop it would be more truthful but less effective.
The left created the world of woke cancellation. They must live in it too.
Of all of the countless stupid things said on The View it falls on the black woman to be the one who gets suspended.
Two weeks is a lot of time to simmer over perceived wrongs.
I suspect collateral damage to come.
-Loren
Could be, would be, should be a fetus for social distance, per chance a baby, evolving from conception. Civilized people err on the side of life. #HateLovesAbortion
That said, Critical Racists' Theory presumes diversity (i.e. color judgment, class-based bigotry) that denies individual dignity, individual conscience, intrinsic value, normalizes color blocs (e.g. "people of color"), color quotas (e.g. "Jew privilege"), and affirmative discrimination.
The Pro-Choice religion ("ethics") denies women and men's dignity and agency, and reduces human life to a negotiable asset for social, clinical, redistributive, and fair weather causes.
often weaponized behind the mouthpieces of “people of color,” who are the gatekeepers of the definition of racism.
Mandela's Zhosa vs Zulu and apartheid to mitigate their progressive conflict. Obama's Kenyan elite vs Kenya deplorables. Hutu vs Tutsi vs Hutu. Black vs Black new old world order. A color bloc "people of color" under a diversity regime. And so on and so forth. #HateLovesAbortion
The View fired Sharon Osborne for defending Piers Morgan after he let his opinions be known
Precedent. Super precedent. But, was it fired-fired, cancel-cancel? h/t Whoopi
Okay this really belonged on the first thread about Goldberg's statements, including her belief that she was Jewish.
I remembered a song from the musical Caberet. Now, I've never seen Caberet, I'd only heard the soundtrack, as my parents tended to play soundtracks from musicals during long car rides. Anyway, I remembered a song where the man was singing about the girl he loved, her virtues, and society not accepting their relationship. It ends with him saying if they could see her through my eyes, she wouldn't look Jewish at all. Never having seen the musical, I interpreted this as a love conquers prejudice in Nazi Germany sort of thing.
So Nazis and not looking Jewish resonated, and I went to look for a clip on YouTube.
Wow, was my previous understanding wrong. And I'm probably going to hell just for posting a link.
If you could see her through my eyes
So a suspension is illiberal but the ongoing cancellations aren't worthy of comment?
I suppose his argument is much easier to make if you can't CTL-F Roseanne Barr, Joe Rogan, Jordan Peterson, or Donald Trump.
Whoopi is looking more and more like the women who watch that program. She needs her jaw wired shut for awhile for two reasons.
Goldberg's father Menachem is rolling over in his grave. (His mother tried to warn him about making whoopi with a shwartz.)
'Hey, look. I expect my Black Privilege and my Democrat/Liberal cards to be honored. Chop, chop."
And I'm probably going to hell just for posting a link.
Ah, she's dressed as a gorilla.
Believe it or not, "Caberet" was performed at West Charlotte High School in 1976. West Charlotte is a majority black neighborhood, and I was part of Supreme Court-ordered busing from the east side.
The school had been built a long time ago, but recently received a new auditorium / stage that was the best among the city schools, with dressing rooms, lighting booth, top-quality sound, etc.
I only mention all this because we put on "Caberet" and "Six Characters in Search of an Author" and nobody blinked. No uproar. No letters to the editor. If there was any problems, the kids never heard about it. We were putting on a play!
The View fired Sharon Osborne for defending Piers Morgan after he let his opinions be known
Precedent. Super precedent. But, was it fired-fired, cancel-cancel? h/t Whoopi
Not fired. Whoopi took a two-week vacation. She's rooming with Puxitawney until all this blows over.
They protect their own, while the rest of us gets the chop.
The View attacked for Holocaust disrepect.
Blacks hardest hit.
"I simply do not understand the mechanism by which viewers are supposed to be damaged in some way by watching an actress make mistakes on live TV.."
And this, after the Rogan/Young incident?
Whoopsi has defended Roman Polanski's anal rape of a 13-year old girl by saying it wasn't really "rape-rape." Well, this wasn't really "race-race," so what's the problem? Idiots like her should be allowed to speak so that the rest of us can see how stupid, ill-informed, and uneducated the left really is. That's reading about her and the View crowd, not watching, because studies show that watching only an hour of the View can decrease your IQ by 5-10 points.
That was odd, Bliss… what’s that saying about remaining silent lest we remove all doubt? Yikes. I promise not to shoot the sheriff…
ABC/Disney cancels someone for what they said. It is "Groundhog Day", and just like the movie, ABC/Disney cancelling someone for what they say happens over and over. Ask Rosanne Barr. Ask Tim Allen. Ask Chris Harrison. Ask Gina Carano. Ask James Gunn. And those are just well-known actors and directors fired in the last few years. They fired a Senior Executive over "racists" comments.
Despite ABC/Disney's routine behavior in censoring opinion, you can bet if Whoopi leaves (through firing or resignation), the right will be blamed for "cancel culture".
I'm with the head of the ADL:
“I heard Whoopi say that she’s committed to doing better. I accept that apology with the sincerity with which she delivered it,” Greenblatt added.
Yeah, this would be why I completely stopped reading NR.
Greg The Class Traitor: "Canceling people on the Right? No big deal.
"Canceling" someone on the Left? Now THAT is wrong.
I don't know where Charlie's had his head buried for teh last couple years, but I really don't care, either.
One set of rules for everyone."
This is absolutely spot on.
National Review 2022 = Weekly Standard 2016
“ Whoopi Goldberg’s Suspension from The View Is Illiberal and Irrational"
“Certainly not irrational. For the moment, even progs have to feign concern over the Holocaust, if only so the they can accuse Israel of being Nazi-like toad the Palestinians, so suspending "Goldberg" signals useful virtue.”
The first thing to keep in mind is that though Jews are a small percent of the country’s population, they have an outsized presence in entertainment and media. A lot of Jewish actors, but now, probably even greater presence in the executive suites. And most of them either had relatives executed by the Nazis, or have good friends who did. They also have an outsized presence in Congress - last time I checked, 10 of 100 Senators, far higher representation there than Blacks, or probably even than blacks and Hispanics combined. And the numbers get even more lopsided when you look at Jewish political contributions to Dem politicians. The Dems need Black votes (and, at least in GA, Black corrupt election workers) and Jewish money to win elections.
Yes, I know Jews who lost family members to the Nazis. But, for me, I know that the Holocaust happened, because my grandfather was a judge on a war crimes tribunal (1xO7+2xO6) for one of the concentration camps. He got over there shortly after the camp was liberated, and stayed throughout 1946 or so. His diary makes interesting reading. And, yes, they had a number of Nazis at the camp hung. He went back a quarter of a century later with my grandmother, and the memories that triggered caused him to walk away. He remembered the ovens before they were cleaned up and sanitized, etc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRLAKD-Vuvk
This is a Milton Friedman Equality production w/a very young Thomas Sowell. Worlds ahead of Whoopi and probably us. I miss level heads. Integrity for Integrity’s sake. Where are all the grown ups?
Micheal K- oh shit- dying lol
"I heard Whoopi say that she’s committed to doing better."
Ahhhh...the ol' "do better". The newest Karen phrase beloved of Progs to try to shame non-Progs into conforming to some Prog-defined "better". Rooted in the Prog theory that humans are perfectable, and will respond to social cues and education to bring us into the Progressive, socially-just utopia.
Of course, those who don't "do better" will be killed. But that's a small price to pay for Prog utopia.
Far more important that Whoopi is that this put the spotlight on the ADL's recent updating of their definition of racism. Whoopi's whopper shows just how shallow that decision was as their new definition doesn't track with their own history. At all.
Today is the first day of Black History Month.
Whoopi is Black.
And she's history.
How fitting.
Whoopi has defended Roman Polanski's anal rape of a 13-year old girl by saying it wasn't really "rape-rape." Well, this wasn't really "race-race," so what's the problem?
Whoopi, who looks like she's buying clothes in the bedding department these days, would say "that wasn't really gas-gas."
If aborted fetuses are simply tissue, why don't we preserve the aborted fetuses to be dissected in HS biology classes? I'm sure the pigs and frogs wouldn't mind and dissecting tissue is just dissecting tissue, right? Imagine how much those high school students would learn about biology and humanity.
Hell, Mika sez ENOUGH! Lay off Whoopi already! Maybe cancel culture is wrong. Bullshit Tag warming up on runway 21.
Are Jews 'white' or aren't they?
There's not really that much confusion from the standpoint of Jewish history. For many centuries Jews were seen as a foreign people (Christ killers), and were restricted in where they could live and the occupations they could enter, were not allowed to own land, etc., were subjected to physical violence and expulsions. IOW not only did they have a different religion, they were seen an entirely different people (a different race if you will) and a threat and definitely weren't considered "white." This was true in Western Europe and as the Ottoman Empire, because obviously Jews weren't willing to become Muslims and they had a separate status called dhimmis with special taxes and demands. With the Revolution in France 1789 Jews were granted full citizenship. That was a turning point in Europe or so many thought. However the belief that they were accepted was shattered by the infamous Dreyfus Affair c.1894 which exposed the depth of anti-semitism in French society. See:Emile Zola. Likewise, Nazi antisemitism didn't arise in a vacuum. There is a lot to tell about the history of Jews in Europe and the Ottoman Empire which is why I suggested Whoopi should take a couple of weeks to familiarize herself, if she actually is interested in the Jewish people.
Jews in the US have been somewhat lulled into believing that anti-semitism isn't a threat here because until recently we haven't seen violent attacks. My parents who were born in the US experienced anti-semitism and restrictions in employment and things like membership in country clubs etc., back in the 1930's. Jews opened their own clubs. In the 1990's Donald Trump famously opened his golf club in Florida to Jews. “When Donald opened his club in Palm Beach called Mar-a-Lago, he insisted on accepting Jews and blacks even though other clubs in Palm Beach to this day discriminate against blacks and Jews. The old guard in Palm Beach was outraged that Donald would accept blacks and Jews so that’s the real Donald Trump that I know.” Author Ronald Kessler in a July 2015 interview with Newsmax.(https://www.chron.com/neighborhood/katy/opinion/article/Trump-insisted-on-including-Jews-blacks-at-Palm-9702222.php)
I would say it's only since the Left's obsession with racial identity politics that Jews are identified or are identifying as white because Jews in the US are generally Askenazi (Eastern European) and because of their financial success Jews don't fit in the victimized minority category. In reality Judaism is a combined people with all its customs and a religion, and not limited to any race. Some Jews are white, some Jews are not white.
This is scratching the surface of the topic but hopefully helpful.
The Germany of the Holocaust considered themselves to be the high point of culture and civilization. Jews were deemed inferior. Any of that sound familiar? Germans required subjugation and sequestration. Anyone yet? Bueller? Bueller?
"Whoopi cushion." Great one, Roy.
*****
Daily dimwit View.
Retard-ladies got to spew.
Low IQ catfight.
Of course a writer from National Review doesn't get why people might be offended. They are one of the offenders.
NR has been writing crap for over a decade now. To whatever they are saying now, my response is: Whatever.
'Whoopi, who looks like she's buying clothes in the bedding department these days...'
She is really enormous in recent photos.
Not sure how she would survive any kind of covid with her bulk.
But I have it on good account that she buys her clothes from the same people that make Barnum & Bailey tents, or wherever Hillary shops...
Goldberg had said: "How dare you talk about what a fetus wants? You have no idea." Sample comment from Cooke: "Is she arguing that, as a rule, unborn children might be suicidal, and that abortion is doing them a favor?"
Whoopi has talked about performing an abortion on herself when she was a teenager. I think this was before Roe v. Wade. I also think she damaged herself, psychologically, of course, but also physically. So the subject of abortion makes her very angry.
In general I think a lot of the support for abortion comes from people who have had abortions. The idea that an unborn baby is a person, or that we might have killed a lot of babies, upsets them horribly.
This is why, of course, the media never runs a photograph of an abortion in any story of an abortion. It upsets people.
Many young people have no idea how upsetting abortion is. All this censorship (to protect the feelings of those people who have had abortions), leaves them ignorant and vulnerable.
I believe that sex education classes should include photographs of aborted infants. And also a field trip to a neonatal intensive care unit. At a minimum, kids in a sex education class should watch this amazing documentary from National Geographic.
People should try to treat Whoopie -- and other women who have had abortions -- with compassion. But that doesn't mean we should censor ourselves or hide the truth. Nor should she be punished for saying what she thinks.
The View has been saying stupid shit for years. Insane that cancel culture is now eating its own. But of course that's why more and more people hate cancel culture, and the woke. I'm a Republican and a pro-lifer but I respect Whoopie's right to speak, and to say bad things in public.
"This isn’t just illiberal, it’s irrational. What Goldberg said was factually incorrect, yes. But so what? Figures on political TV shows say stupid and historically illiterate things every day — including about the Nazis — and nothing much happens to them as a result. What, exactly, was different about this one?"
- National Review
"Derb is effectively using our name to get more oxygen for views with which we’d never associate ourselves otherwise. So there has to be a parting of the ways. Derb has long danced around the line on these issues, but this column is so outlandish it constitutes a kind of letter of resignation. It’s a free country, and Derb can write whatever he wants, wherever he wants. Just not in the pages of NR or NRO, or as someone associated with NR any longer."
- also National Review
Tough crowd, some of you. I think Cooke is spot-on here.
robother, 12:50:
"Goldberg's father Menachem is rolling over in his grave. (His mother tried to warn him about making whoopi with a shwartz.)"
Oh man. Who knew Mel Brooks posted here? Great to have you, sir!
Bruce Hayden, thanks for a very interesting post.
Of course a writer from National Review doesn't get why people might be offended.
I don’t get why people are offended. Why on earth would anyone attach any significance or importance to the current tenets of American leftism that are unthinkingly swallowed and brainlessly regurgitated on The View?
This is a Milton Friedman Equality production w/a very young Thomas Sowell.
Farmgirl, this was part of the freshman syllabus at my college...I can't recall anyone objecting to it...
@Rosalyn C.
I view Jews as a distinct race, partially because Jews consider themselves a race even within themselves - sephardim & ashkenazim - among other reasons.
I didn't think this was controversial until things like this 'Whoopi Cushion' happen occasionally...or when I've called out 'white' Jews for using racial flip-flopping to gain unearned authority for the sake of making an argument.
No, you do not get to play both sides of the fence for points and prizes championing your selected minority clients (blacks) and causes. No, you do not get to masquerade as white to shame white people for imagined racism as the champion of everyone who isn't white. Yes, you will be called on such racial behavior that coincidentally leads to the ambiguities and confusion we're all discussing at this moment.
You do not get to 'play white' for the purpose of being offended on Whoopi's behalf when it's convenient, and angry when it's not.
"Figures on political TV shows say stupid and historically illiterate things every day — including about the Nazis — and nothing much happens to them as a result."
really? if i was a figure on a political TV show, could i say something stupid an historically illiterate, about black people? I'm guessing NO!
It's plain enough that Whoopi wants to justify reverse racism and anti-Semitism while condemning racism. It can't be done. CRT tries to square that circle and that's one of the things wrong with teaching CRT-based curriculums in the schools. When you take on the consequences of racism by teaching that racism must be fought with racism, you are essentially teaching racism. What if people learn it?
So is this part of "cancel culture"?
Anyone who took personal offense to Goldberg's comments needs to address his own emotional immaturity, incessant desire to force others to their point of view, and inability to relate to others with whom they disagree. People who don't want to hear Whoopi Goldberg's opinions have a very simple solution: don't listen to them. I was starting my sophomore year of high school when The View debuted and in the 25 years since, I have managed to not see a single episode. And honestly, it didn't really take much effort.
If others had not been previously cancelled for similar (or not-so-similar) remarks, Whoopi would not be in the doghouse right now. So its lesson-learning for everyone that sooner or later the worm turns for thee. Let free speech prevail, let debates happen, let mea culpas happen, and let's move on. All of these censorship plays are downright embarrassing for our country, IMHO.
It’s not so much what she said, but what it revealed. She believes that white people can NEVER be the victims of racism.
ABC sent Roseanne into exile, so they at least had to put Whoopi in a time out. For balance, I guess.
It's tit for tat at this point if we want cancel culture to stop.
Cooke knows the left will show no restraint. He knows his "both sides" essay will only restrain free speech idealists. That helps the left. He knows that too.
The progression has been
1. Leftists have little power, so speech rights should protect us
2. Lefts have all the power, and only our speech is correct
See: Neil Young, Joni Mitchell etc.
Also, Gramsci.
@gilbar:
if i was a figure on a political TV show
The View is no more a "political TV show" than Live with Kelly and Ryan. They're talk shows. Nonetheless, I do take your point on obvious double standards.
Some commenters have approved of Goldberg’s suspension, on the basis that there be “one rule for everyone.”
But, if those commenters have regarded actions taken against Roseanne Barr, R.K. Rowling, Joe Rogan, and others, as wrong and un-American, the rule they presumptively favor is the American principle of free expression: that the only valid response to speech, however ignorant or malicious, is more speech--corrections, criticisms, counter-arguments, facts, etc.--rather than attempts to muzzle other speakers through the imposition of personal or professional harm.
Accordingly, by the principle those commenters implicitly support, they are wrong in approving Goldberg’s suspension: Goldberg’s ignorant statements should be criticized and refuted, but she should not have been suspended for making them.
QED.
@Dave:
He knows his "both sides" essay will only restrain free speech idealists.
What does ABC's choice of on-air talent have to do with freedom of speech? The broad legal protections for freedom of speech in the US were only achieved in the 1960s and remain the standard today.
what if Ilya Shapiro had said about AA hiring and admissions and haunting ghosts of incompetence etc, =>>>> D against D/black
@Frank:
It’s not so much what she said, but what it revealed. She believes that white people can NEVER be the victims of racism.
Now that I've clutched my pearls, let me ask you this: who gives a shit what Whoopi Goldberg believes?
Why on earth would anyone attach any significance or importance to the current tenets of American leftism that are unthinkingly swallowed and brainlessly regurgitated on The View?
Why on earth would anyone attach any significance or importance to the current tenets of American leftism that are unthinkingly swallowed and brainlessly regurgitated on National Review?
Granted, NR isn't as left as Hot Air, but left enough.
The View bitched about Rogan and "misinformation" Then Whoopie Cushion goes on about the Holocaust and shows she's as ignorant as she claims Rogan to be. From my chair all the Talking Head shows could be replaced with reruns of Mayberry RFD, Green Acres and Gilligan's Island, might raise the collective IQ of this country. You could also replace oll of the "news" channels with Barney Miller, Maude, The Jeffersons and All in the Family! Me? I'm just going to keep on Wordleing till the NYT starts charging for it.
Farmer: "Anyone who took personal offense to Goldberg's comments needs to address his own emotional immaturity, incessant desire to force others to their point of view, and inability to relate to others with whom they disagree. People who don't want to hear Whoopi Goldberg's opinions have a very simple solution: don't listen to them."
Those are not the rules established by the left and the only way possible to get the left to constrain themselves is to force them to live by their own rules.
1 set of rules for everyone.
Period.
I suspect most people think what Whoopi said was wrong. But by wrong I mean incorrect. What she said was in no way anti-Semitic. She is simply giving her view on the Holocaust using the lens that is probably the most prominent in the left today, at least most prominent in the most vocal contingent of the left. To support this idea, let me quote a portion of the ADL's definition of systemic racism.
A combination of systems, institutions and factors that advantage white people and for people of color, cause widespread harm and disadvantages in access and opportunity.
By the ADL's own definition systemic racism is something that ONLY non-white people can be the victim of. Now I think most people here would disagree with the ADL's definition and acknowledge that racism whether systemic or otherwise is something that anyone can be the victim of. But in no way did Whoopi advocate for anything malicious or in any way suggest that Jewish people were inferior or in any way deserving of mistreatment. Her being suspended is cancel culture. And if she supported other people's cancelations she deserves it. If she didn't then she does not. Regardless I don't feel sorry for her. And yes her being canceled does hurt our national discourse where people should feel free and to express their ideas and opinions without suffering a wildly disproportionate backlash.
Loren W Laurent said...
Of all of the countless stupid things said on The View it falls on the black woman to be the one who gets suspended.
Two weeks is a lot of time to simmer over perceived wrongs.
I suspect collateral damage to come.
--------
bonus on the table when she returns?
The link on "critical theory" goes to an Andrew Sullivan tweet: "Goldberg's basic point is classic CRT: if it's 'white people' vs 'white people,' i.e. Jews, it cannot be racism."
---------
at least CRT is consistent >>> black on black is not racism either
just D fight for turf
Dave said...
It's tit for tat at this point if we want cancel culture to stop.
I disagree.
The best way to stop fascist shitheads is to treat them like fascist shitheads.
We should not start acting like fascist shitheads ourselves.
Society only exists when the incompatible elements are suppressed. Enemies of free expression and equal protection should face a choice between death, exile, or submission to freedom.
We do not strengthen our social fabric by mimicking these barbarians. We in fact aid their efforts.
Joe Smith said...
'Whoopi, who looks like she's buying clothes in the bedding department these days...'
She is really enormous in recent photos.
************
when whoopi hauls ass, she has to make three trips.
Don't overthink it. This isn't some intellectual controversy. On the audio Whoopi sounded so aggressively stupid, that yeah, she, does deserve to be fired -- more because she's an idiot than because she was wrong or offensive.
Vintage Whoopi: 'Get out of my vagina!'
Conservatives and Libertarians need to support Whoopie vs. ABC. There is no reason to suspend her except for virtue signaling.
The only things offensive about her statements are her unbelievable ignorance and usual stupidity. In other words, it's the same old same old with the Hollywood crowd. Let's move on.
She is probably brighter and better informed than AOC.
Oh no! They've done it now! Whoopi's threatening to quit The View!
I don’t get why people are offended. Why on earth would anyone attach any significance or importance to the current tenets of American leftism that are unthinkingly swallowed and brainlessly regurgitated on The View?
because their audience are the people responsible for Biden and the Democratic Party.
@ Christopher B 11:49: well said and right-on. Isn't Whoopi manufacturing the name "Goldberg", for professional advancement and without any documented connection to same an example of egregious cultural appropriation? Good Lord.
Two years ago, Nick Cannon appeared on a radio show hosted by someone known to hold antisemitic views, and -- according to Wikipedia -- "endorsed conspiracy theories about Jewish control of finance, [and] claimed that Jews had stolen the identity of black people as the 'true Hebrews.'"
Not only was he not fired as host of the prime-time Fox TV show "The Masked Singer," he was given his own hourlong daily TV talk show.
Now Whoopi is "threatening to quit". This is starting to look like "Big Time Wrestling".
CSNY are on Rogan's case now. Gonna do a "Social Justice - Cancel Free Speech" Tour?
Narr @2:06 - excellent Haiku!
Nazism viewed the Slavs as a race as well.
In the US, the Irish, the Germans, the Italians, Jews etc were a different race.
CRT isn’t rigorous. The concept of Whiteness is pretty recent. The 1964 Civil Rights act doesn’t even mention ethnicity.
And lumping in Chinese, Indians, Koreans, Japanese, Vietnamese, etc as “Asian” is pretty dumb. Same with Mexican, Puerto Rican, Cuban, Guatemalan, etc as Latino.
The white ethnicities have inter-married and reproduced a lot in the last 50 years in the US. So White makes some sense as a general term nowadays. But the Class differences of Whites is still a problem. We don’t have WASPs really anymore. The term Elite fills the void to an extent. But the WASPs were much better than today’s Elite. They understood racial/ethnic/religious/class issues better.
Oh no! They've done it now! Whoopi's threatening to quit The View!
Big Whoop
Conservatives and Libertarians need to support Whoopie
Whatever you're on, can I have some?
Achilles said...
We should not start acting like fascist shitheads ourselves.
... Enemies of free expression and equal protection should face a choice between death, exile, or submission to freedom.
We do not strengthen our social fabric by mimicking these barbarians. We in fact aid their efforts.
The ladies on The View are enemies of free expression. They have expressed strong support for cancelling others with "problematic" views.
We obviously can't dish out a death penalty, and nothing yet has caused them to submit to freedom of speech, so what is left out of your recommendations? Hello exile.
The President of ABC News is an African-American woman. Did she feel any issue with appearing to favor WG where other on-air talent had been punished?
Thanks, Friendo.
As J. Farmer says, nobody is forced to watch those ninnies, so I'll say my acquaintance with them began about mid-2015, when I started helping my younger brother with Mom-care after I retired. That show was the centerpiece of her morning, and no imbecility they uttered was too much for her. It was just on when I was there, and unavoidable.
The snippets I see now neither surprise nor outrage me, though I admit they often make me feel even more superiorer to them than before.
BUMBLE BEE: "Now Whoopi is "threatening to quit". This is starting to look like "Big Time Wrestling"."
A Public Relations/marketer dream come true.
Accordingly, by the principle those commenters implicitly support, they are wrong in approving Goldberg’s suspension: Goldberg’s ignorant statements should be criticized and refuted, but she should not have been suspended for making them.
With all due respect, the principle that is being lost in these "take the high road" comments is that these cancel culture advocates like Whoopi and The Other View Girls are literally helping to change the country into a hellhole where this type of thing is seen as proper. They condone it in part because they believe it will never happen to themselves. If, in fact, it never happens to them, they will continue to push this type of behavior. And despite all the "who cares what Whoopi thinks" comments, these people do have influence. So, again, if it doesn't happen to them, they won't see it for the poison that it is. So let them drinketh from the chalice.
Now that I've clutched my pearls, let me ask you this: who gives a shit what Whoopi Goldberg believes?
Unfortunately, most women.
>>'the culture at ABC News is one that is driven, kind, inclusive, respectful, and transparent.”.
I find it very interesting that "accurate" and "honest" aren't part of the culture at ABC "news".
It is totally amazing how the left(and their Never-Trumper supporting cast) changes their mind when it is one of THEIR people being forced to play by the rules that they set. In addition, Goldberg gets a two-week vacation. It's not as if she has been "canceled", blackballed, and never to be able to work in Hollywood again.
@This Person
Whatever you're on, can I have some?
Sure. It is called Common Sense. Unfortunately it is not sold in stores nor on Amazon. You need to develop it over time.
Best of luck.
It's nice to see Whoopie getting some love from you people.
Loren W Laurent said...
Of all of the countless stupid things said on The View it falls on the black woman to be the one who gets suspended.
Two weeks is a lot of time to simmer over perceived wrongs.
I suspect collateral damage to come.
This is insightful.
Maynard said...
Conservatives and Libertarians need to support Whoopie vs. ABC. There is no reason to suspend her except for virtue signaling.
She is a racist barbarian who would strip you of your freedoms because you disagree with her.
If you are supporting her for any reason you are making a mistake.
Christopher Hitchens disagreed with me. But he and I could live in the same society together. He did not demand obeisance.
Whoopi Goldberg is fascist scum. She either undermines the society I live in or she persecutes me if she gets the chance.
You need to get this distinction.
I find it very interesting that "accurate" and "honest" aren't part of the culture at ABC "news".
Not ABC in particular, but the JournoLism profession generally, is infamous for speaking truth through projection and spinning handmade tales. It's a politically congruent (PC) thing.
Yes, dismissing Goldberg is illiberal and irrational.
"The View" is illiberal and irrational. Much, perhaps *all* of ABC is illiberal and irrational.
Not found in the NR article is the responsibility ABC bears for fomenting the cancel culture, now grown fierce and turned back upon its creator.
In its statement, ABC insisted that “the culture at ABC News is one that is driven, kind, inclusive, respectful, and transparent.”
All bullshit and flummery. The first word "driven" is passive, not active, disclaiming responsibility for what happens at ABC News. *Who* drives the culture at ABC News? and on what course?
The rest - "kind, inclusive, respectful, and transparent" - is asserted without evidence or example. What I have seen of The View is none of that. If "The View" is under the "news" department at ABC, that itself is evidence of irrationality.
First of all, Whoopie was never cancelled. She got a two week vacation. Big Whoop. IF she was cancelled like the left likes to do to others, she would have been fired, and unable to find another job like Roseanne was.
@Maynard
Sure. It is called Common Sense. Unfortunately it is not sold in stores nor on Amazon.
Touche. Yours was a perfectly fair response to my glib comment.
On the other hand, the "Common Sense" approach of opposing cancellation of cancel culture advocates and their friends is guaranteed to not convince them to stop doing it to your friends.
Cooke: I simply do not understand the mechanism by which viewers are supposed to be damaged in some way by watching an actress make mistakes on live TV....
That shows that Cooke is fairly stupid. Truth is important. I’m amazed that needs to be mentioned.
That doesn’t mean that Goldberg should be fired, or disciplined. Ridicule suffices. But she should be mocked for talking about something she doesn’t understand, and couldn’t be bothered to find out about.
This controversy revolves around two simple facts. One is that words change their meaning over time. (I read once that “fuck” originally meant something like “die horribly.”) The other fact is that Americans are actively anti-historical. They not only don't know much about the past, they strenuously reject knowing about the past.
If you look up the meaning of “race” in a good historical dictionary such as the OED (probably available to you online through your local public library), you find out originally meant any group that was more-or-less closely related. Families, clans, regional ethnic groups, tribes, and nations have all been referred to as “races.”
Because “related” is a vague term with lots of gradiations of meaning and relatedness, so is “race.” Whether Jews are a “race” depends on what level of relatedness is under discussion. It’s obvious that within almost any area, the local Jews are more closely related to each other genetically than they are to the general population of the area. They mostly marry other Jews, although this is changing in the U.S. But they aren’t nearly as genetically distinct as more-or-less pure whites and blacks.
Whoopi’s error comes from being a typical American, who doesn’t want to know about the past in any detail.
TheDopeFromHope said...
Whoopsi has defended Roman Polanski's anal rape of a 13-year old girl by saying it wasn't really "rape-rape."
Just for the record, it was both vaginal and anal rape.
Hey Skipper said...
Today is the first day of Black History Month.
Whoopi is Black.
And she's history.
How fitting.
_______________________
Ah, if only that were true. But still very funny. Thanks for the laugh.
Hey Skipper said...
Today is the first day of Black History Month.
Whoopi is Black.
And she's history.
How fitting.
_______________________
Ah, if only that were true. But still very funny. Thanks for the laugh.
Rosalyn C. said...
"IOW not only did they have a different religion, they were seen an entirely different people (a different race if you will) and a threat and definitely weren't considered 'white.' "
_____________
This is completely false. Jews were hated and persecuted even though they were (correctly) considered “white.” Hard though it may be to believe, people have persecuted other people for reasons that had nothing to do with skin color.
The idea that Jews weren’t white is an example of CRT lies infiltrating the culture. It’s also another example of American hostility to history. See for example the prominent “non-whites” Lewis Strauss and Judah P. Benjamin.
Ozymandias said...
Accordingly, by the principle those commenters implicitly support, they are wrong in approving Goldberg’s suspension: Goldberg’s ignorant statements should be criticized and refuted, but she should not have been suspended for making them.
QED
___________
Wrong, completely wrong. The principle they implicitly support is “the law of war,” which states 1) that the only limits on targets and methods of fighting are those mutually agreed upon; and 2) if the other side violates the rules, they are in the wrong to do so, and you are in the right when you retaliate by using the same method of combat.
QED.
This Person said...
Oh no! They've done it now! Whoopi's threatening to quit The View!
Big Whoop
_______________
LOL. Very big lately, from the pictures I’ve seen.
DanTheMan said...
>>'the culture at ABC News is one that is driven, kind, inclusive, respectful, and transparent.”.
I find it very interesting that "accurate" and "honest" aren't part of the culture at ABC "news".
_____________
Oh good shot sir!
Having now read all the comments so far posted, it is amusing to see the people insisting that Jews aren't white, when the vast majority obviously are. Or insisting that they weren't considered white, when the vast majority always were so considered. Thank several of you for the lesson in how obvious nonsense gets believed when some people simply repeat it for a while.
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