"Did WaPo report on the hostages? Seems like a bigger deal than [what you've chosen to blog about]," one commenter wrote. I've been irked by comments of the don't-blog-that-blog-this kind since 2004. Maybe you've noticed.
Anyway. This morning, speaking of WaPo, I see this headline over there: "Blinken denies Taliban holding Americans in Afghanistan ‘hostage.'"
I don't trust Blinken, and I think avoiding the word "hostage" might be something you'd do if you had a hostage situation. So let's read:
“It’s my understanding that the Taliban has not denied exit to anyone holding a valid document, but they have said those without valid documents, at this point, can’t leave,” Blinken said. “Because all of these people are grouped together, that’s meant that flights have not been allowed to go,” he said....
On Sunday, Republican Rep. Michael McCaul of Texas said he received classified briefings indicating that Americans and Afghan allies are stranded at the Mazar-e Sharif airport. Taliban militants “are not clearing the airplanes to depart,” he told Fox News on Sunday. “This is really… turning into a hostage situation where they’re not going to allow American citizens to leave until they get full recognition from the United States of America.”...
But Blinken acknowledged Tuesday that without U.S. personnel on the ground, Washington is unable to verify the manifests and check the documents of passengers seeking charter flights out. As an alternative, the State Department has begun facilitating ground transportation of U.S. citizens and others, including the departure of four U.S. citizens on Monday.... The Taliban was aware of the operation and did not impede the Americans’ safe passage....
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61 comments:
Okay, but can we say "stranded"?
have been prevented from taking off because they included passengers without valid travel documents
They are no boots on the ground. There is no issue with travel documents.
It's a hostage situation. They want the pallets full of cash.
Just wait until 9-11-21. TB will demand that all Gitmo detainees be released in exchange for 24 CA school kids that are still in Afghanistan.
KSM. Free as a bird.
Don't say 'hostage' until you know it's a hostage situation.
Critical Hostage Theory. It's only a hostage situation when I say it is.
"As an alternative, the State Department has begun facilitating ground transportation of U.S. citizens and others, including the departure of four U.S. citizens on Monday.... The Taliban was aware of the operation and did not impede the Americans’ safe passage..."
The State Department confirmed the report in a statement.
"U.S. has facilitated the safe departure of four US citizens by overland route from Afghanistan. Embassy staff was present upon their arrival," said the statement.
Contrary to the claims from the State Department, one of the organizers of the mission accused them of exaggerating their role in the rescue.
"The fact that they're spinning this, trying to take 100% credit when they didn't track this family, when they placated this family, when the mother, who was under extreme stress and extreme pressure, reached out to the State Department multiple times and got no help," said Cory Mills in a statement to Fox News.
Mills and a private team of military veterans were funded in their mission by private donors including the Sentinel Foundation.
"This is an attempt to save face by the administration for the Americans they left behind. This is a woman with three children from age 15 all the way down to two-years-old. And they did nothing to try to expedite this," Mills continued. "But at the very last minute you have these 'senior officials' at the State Department trying to claim credit for this like 'oh yeah look what we've done.'"
Mullin corroborated the accusations against the State Department.
"This is a flat out lie. The Biden Administration abandoned them. Let's be clear, it was our team of patriots who worked around the clock for two weeks to get them out, despite the many roadblocks from the State Department," he tweeted.
Mullin added that there are many more Americans still waiting to be rescued.
"There are still many families like Mariam's who are desperately wanting and waiting to get out. America cannot rest until we get them all home," he tweeted.
if someone wants to leave and has the ability to do so, but are not "allowed" to, then they are being held against their will. if there is bargaining going on, they're hostages.
But no MSM figure wants to call them "hostages" because they know what that did to Jimmy Carter.
"But Blinken acknowledged Tuesday that without U.S. personnel on the ground, Washington is unable to verify the manifests and check the documents of passengers seeking charter flights out."
Why don't we have people on the ground to handle this sort of thing? We have the Taliban to protect them.
We could fix this is an hour with a Lear Jet and a State Dept Rep if we actually wanted to.
I have no idea what Biden's objective is.
What exactly is a travel document? I have a US Passport and the small, driver's license version of that passport. Are those the travel documents I'd need to leave Afghanistan?
Or are travel documents some sort of official exit visas provided by the Taliban? You know, a document to show that you aren't on any of the "detain for trial, rape, torture, murder, or official execution" lists used by the Taliban to keep good sharia compliant Muslims safe from infidels?
Of such details are news stories made by inquisitive reporters. Too bad there are no longer any reporters in DC, just journalists.
So the estimate is that the Administration got about 15-20,000 Americans and SIV holders among the 120,000 people they claim to have gotten out. Is Blinken claiming that the other 100,000 all had complete paperwork? Blinken is fourth in line of succession after Harris, Pelosi and Leahy. I don't trust him either.
Watch Tony carefully to see if his eyes are "Blinken" out "hostages" in Morse code ...
Come to think of it, those clips of Joe with Kamala and the cabinet members behind him in black masks do look a little like hostage videos ...
"some evacuation flights out of Afghanistan have been prevented from taking off...
an explanation that undercuts Republican claims that the Taliban is holding Americans hostage...."
So,
if the Taliban are doing ONE bad thing; this 'undercuts' claims that they're doing ANOTHER bad thing?
“It’s my understanding that the Taliban has not denied exit to anyone holding a valid document"
I think this is what is known, as Willful ignorance?
The downside for the Taliban in letting these folks go is.... Right. Loss of leverage. So call it paperwork and State eats that up with a shovel and expects us to, as well.
My understanding is before the Taliban took over, the State Dept. would not get permission from neighboring countries to let the privately funded rescue planes land.
And after the Taliban took over, you have the current situation.
Question is what do the Taliban want in exchange for letting the planes leave?
And I have read the Taliban were deliberately not letting Americans into the Kabul Airport, but were letting other people. Why? Future negotiating chips?
It sounds more hostage than 'hostage'.
"As an alternative, the State Department has begun facilitating ground transportation of U.S. citizens and others, including the departure of four U.S. citizens on Monday.... The Taliban was aware of the operation and did not impede the Americans’ safe passage...."
Translated from Bidenspeak to English:
'Private security teams bribed the Taliban to let them safely convoy four Americans out of Afghanistan. The US State Department desperately tried to stop the operation but without resources on the ground the State Department's desperate cries of 'Stop!' were repeatedly ignored. Once the operation succeeded the State Department issued a carefully worded press release that makes look like they should take he credit.'
So in other words we were right and the WAPO was wrong.
The taliban is holding hostages.
1 pallet of cash per plane?
Well, you learn something new every day. I thought "Blinken" was a derogatory name for Biden. But its not! Its actually a whole different person.
Well, well, well.
Sounds like BS to me. How many people without "valid travel documents"? What is a "valid travel document" anyway and who issues it? Is it an exit visa issued by the Taliban? Is it an entry visa issued by the receiving country?
There are 6 planes ready to go. How about load the people with "valid travel documents" onto 5 of the planes and the others can wait till their "valid travel documents" are straightened out then go on the remaining plane. That doesn't solve the problem but it does help and reduces the number of hostages. (Yes, hostages")
The US has not been vetting anyone else. Flew tens of thousands of Afghanis out of Kabul without vetting, planning on vettng at the destination. Why are these folks, assuming the "valid travel documents" are not Taliban exit visas or the like, not treated the same. Several countries have apparently said they could land there.
Oh, geeze. I completely forgot.
These folks are not being rescued by our incompetent government. The 6 planes were chartered by a private organization funded by donations (including mine) Even worse, a dreaded Christian organization with whom that lunatic, MAGA, rodeo clown Glenn Beck (Their opinion, not mine) is closely affiliated and raising money.
It sounds from what Blinken said as if these people are being held hostage but perhaps not by the Taliban. They seem to be held hostage by Democrat/USG politics.
But Blinken acknowledged Tuesday that without U.S. personnel on the ground, Washington is unable to verify the manifests and check the documents of passengers seeking charter flights out.
Now all of a sudden they need documents? Shame on Blinken.
The planes are charted by The Nazarene Fund www.nazarenefund.org I sent $150 a couple week ago. I just sent another $150.
Don't just moan about how bad it is, help out.
John Henry
I do not like it when anyone exaggerates or over-plays a situation. It not only undermines the credibility of the person making the claim, but generates a bias against the whole political tribe the person belongs to, making the ability to get to the truth that much harder. If "our side" misrepresents a situation in one case, then the next claim will be discounted because we are unreliable. This is evident everywhere in our political discourse.
In this case, hostage might be too strong a word and not evident in the details we have now. Being delayed at the airport is one thing, even blocked, but unless there is a demand or a particular effort to make a point about the people being delayed, then it is not a hostage situation. Don't call them hostage yet. Ridicule the administration for their failure to get those people out, but just because you hope that it is a hostage situation so that you can rub their noses in it makes you the baddie
As an alternative, the State Department has begun facilitating ground transportation of U.S. citizens and others, including the departure of four U.S. citizens on Monday..
I doubt that I will be the first to point this out but this is a blatent lie.
These 4 escaped with the help of private citizens, not the USG which did NOTHING to help them.
John Henry
What was that phrase they used back in the 1950s to hint that someone was a communist, without actually calling him or her a communist? Ah, yes. “Premature antifascist.” So now we have “premature recognizer of a hostage situation.” Got it.
(Yes, I am aware that during the early days of World War II hard core communists in the US and Great Britain were not antifascists, and did not become so until after Hitler initiated Operation Barbarossa.)
There is so much going on in these few paragraphs--none of it verified, none of it verifiable. So, Blinken speaks with total authority that there is nothing to see here, but admits that without U.S. personnel on the ground, Washington is unable to verify the manifests and check the documents of passengers seeking charter flights out.
OK. No...not OK. He's just talking.
But "the State Department has begun facilitating ground transportation of U.S. citizens and others, including the departure of four U.S. citizens on Monday..." I don't know what was in the ellipsis, but I do know that the four US citizens were a mother and her three children who were extracted by a private operation, and the private operator says the role of the US State Department was minimal, i.e., they greeted the fleeing party across the border.
We really don't know what is going on, and neither does WaPo. And in fact, if you believe that State Department, they don't know what is going on, either. They don't know how many US citizens and permanent residents are left in Afghanistan, and they keep saying they don't know how many want to leave. They don't know much that is important, if you believe them.
Joe F-ed up, and left Americans in Afghanistan. Now, don't you dare call them hostages, even though the Taliban refuses to let the planes leave. Look...Texa's is denying abortions on demand!! (squirrel) Who cares about Americans stranded in Afghanistan, we have babies to abort.
A week or two back there was a post here about California HS kids being stuck in Afghanistan. A little digging, no help to the article that Ann linked, showed that these students were Afghanis visiting relatives and that apparently this was a common thing to do every summer.
I also found that there is a large Afghani community in El Cajon CA.
From the stories I read at the time some of the kids were born in the US (US citizens) some brought here by parents. I assume legal residents for courtesy but have no way of knowing.
In any event, under Afghani citizenship law, having Afghani parents makes those kids Afghani citizens, regardless of US status.
I am now wondering if this has any effect on the situation. If they are Afghani citizens, are they subject to being drafted into the Afghan army, for example? Would that be an excuse to hold them there against their will?
Not saying it would be right. It would not be. But it might be used as an excuse.
John Henry
The 2000 Afghans in Wisconsin do not have SIV? Smells like Cloward-Piven. Totally Transform America.
I’ve been annoyed at WaPo for averting their eyes from the crisis. Some good fact-based reporting would help answer the question about hostages. I’m not interested in Blinken’s Clintonian parsing of the term. If they aren’t hostages of the Taliban what IS the reason they are stranded there. And maybe if psycho Psaki hadn’t thrown a shitfit over the word stranded before we would be less apt to assume hostage reports are true now. Can we say they are STRANDED now?
If you're depending on the media to bring you a story you can trust...
You're going to be waiting a LONG time.
People without proper documentation are not allowed into the United States?
The folks along the southern border will be surprised to hear this news.
"There are 6 planes ready to go. How about load the people with "valid travel documents" onto 5 of the planes and the others can wait till their "valid travel documents" are straightened out then go on the remaining plane."
Yeah.
Throughout this whole thing it's as if the administration doesn't want to get people out. What I wonder is, why would that be?
Achilles: "So in other words we were right and the WAPO was wrong.
The taliban is holding hostages.
1 pallet of cash per plane?"
Are you kidding?
This is the Installed *"president" and his team of democraticals/LLR-democraticals/NeverTrumpers: 1 pallet of cash per person plus other "considerations" to be named shortly.
Wa St Blogger: "Don't call them hostage yet."
Joe Biden: "The mission hasn't failed -- yet."
Dave Begley said...
Just wait until 9-11-21. TB will demand that all Gitmo detainees be released in exchange for 24 CA school kids that are still in Afghanistan.
KSM. Free as a bird."
I hate to say it but you are probably right. As for those who are steadfast in denying there is a hostage situation does the term detainee seem too harsh?
“But Blinken acknowledged Tuesday that without U.S. personnel on the ground, Washington is unable to verify the manifests and check the documents of passengers seeking charter flights out.”
So the State Dept. is holding them hostage?
Strange as it may seem, US Dept of State foreign service officers (FSOs) are actually trained not to do anything to help US citizens if it might in some way be objectionable to the host nation, as many overseas travelers have learned to their dismay for many decades before the present one. Blinken and his people are just doing what the State Department always has done.
This is why this isn't going away: the lefties/LLR-lefties/tech-lefties in the US can't pull another "Hunter's Laptop" and "Hunter's Underage Chinese Girl Romps With Cocaine" news blackouot because the rest of the world is all in on seeing and saying what is obvious.
Candidate for German Chancellor called Afghan withdrawal "greatest debacle that NATO has experienced since its founding"
Czech President labeled @POTUS ' actions "cowardice"
Boris Johson has already ordered Whitehall to come up with a completely new global diplomatic strategy given our Installed *"president's" clear incapacity, failure and retreat.
Meanwhile, the ChiCom's are buzzing around Taiwan like Dementia Joe and Hunter Biden at an elementary school recital where the parents are not in attendance.
cubanbob: "I hate to say it but you are probably right. As for those who are steadfast in denying there is a hostage situation does the term detainee seem too harsh?"
Soon all the Hostage Deniers will shift their talking points as Howard has:
Howard now argues, and simultaneously mind you, that there are no hostages, there are hostages but that was to be expected, the republicans are too lazy to do anything to help the hostages, the republicans/conservatives have mounted independent rescue operations but that doesn't count, the State Department owes nothing to those Americans in Afghanistan and are right to do nothing to help them, the rescue operations executed by non-governmental types (republicans/conservatives) really should be credited to the State Department and its the republicans/conservatives who are lying about what they did.
I didn't think it could happen, but there it is: Howard has out-Chucked LLR Chuck.
I suppose it was inevitable but seeing it happen in real time is truly something.
RoseAnne said...
So the estimate is that the Administration got about 15-20,000 Americans and SIV holders among the 120,000 people they claim to have gotten out.
Last estimate I read was they got 5,500 out, which was "90% of the American citizens who wanted out."
Since they'd previously admitted to 11k Americans wanting help, I think the main thing we know is that no number from teh Biden * Admin can be trusted
Nazarene Fund raised money from citizens all over the world but mostly from rank and file Americans. They're a Christian organization originally devoted to helping Christians and Yazadi's escape the horrors of ISIS while Obama was playing golf and calling ISIS the JV team, and Joe was arranging meetings with members of the CCP to put his son in business- for a few million dollars. While they were doing what they do, the Nazarene Fund helped hundreds of people escape that area and sure death.
For this Afghanistan run-away, they had no time to work, little money to start, and needed to organize planes, routes, fuel & supplies, and coordinate with all the powers that be. It was made clear- early on- before the Americans had left in full, that our State Department was the problem in getting our own people out as well as approved Afghanis.
Our government is again, and not surprisingly, the problem here. And our media is again, not surprisingly, covering up and not telling this story. Instead they are working as Biden's mouthpiece declaring that a storm in the Northeast is the result of Climate Change. Or how us crazy Southern folk have the nerve to talk freedom during the time of Covid. (clearly they missed the Wisconsin game last weekend).
Seriously- we have the most mediocre people in history in positions of leadership and media today. It is strangling us. And it needs to be cut out.
So, let's see what we think we know:
1: There were planes at the airport, filled with passengers
2: At least some of the passengers were American citizens
3: The Taliban did not allow the planes to take off
4: The US isn't doing anything about it, other than insist that the Americans are not "hostages"
5: To be a "hostage" does not require that you be locked up. If you can credibly threaten to do harm to person X if person Y does something you don't like, then it is reasonable to say "X is being held hostage to ensure the good behavior of Y"
6: If you have a group of 1,000 people (for example), they're not being allowed to leave, and an attempt to get them out would fail for most of those people (not all, just most), then it is reasonable to say that those people are being "held hostage".
It's not the Iran hostage crises, but that's not the only way to reasonably use that word
So, what can we conclude from this:
1: American citizens are currently being held hostage in Afghanistan, by the Taliban, for reasons unknown. It might be for cash payoffs, it might be to prevent the US military from doing anything the Taliban don't like, or are paid by someone else not to like. We just don't know
2: The Biden* Admin is lying to us about the situation
3: We're not going to get any useful information about the situation from the US press
4: We might eventually get useful information from the UK press
I have no idea what Biden's objective is.
Neither does Biden.
Isn't it obvious that there is already a quid pro quo in discussion here? It really doesn't matter what you call these unfortunate folks. They are bargaining chips.
"But Blinken acknowledged Tuesday that without U.S. personnel on the ground, Washington is unable to verify the manifests and check the documents of passengers seeking charter flights out."
These people aren't stranded naked and afraid on a mountaintop. Every one of them has a cell phone. The charter company has contacts on the ground, the pilots have phones and airline comms...
The "we're helpless" act coming from the administration is disgraceful.
Pallets of currency should take care of this 'situation'.
The taliban is holding hostages.
1 pallet of cash per plane?
What are you, kidding? You think we're getting the 'Friends and Family' discount?
How about one pallet per soul.
If you have an aircraft full of people, and some people are deemed not able to continue on the flight, you don't hold the whole aircraft. You remove the people who cannot continue on the flight and allow the rest to go on with the trip.
Unless, of course, you're the Taliban, apparently.
I didn't live through Vietnam, but I've never before seen our country abandon a position so quickly at such loss for no visible gain.
Bagram
Equipment
Citizens
Allies
On-the-ground Afghani support with explicit promises to be aided
Made up withdrawal dates. Made up withdrawal terms. For what gain? To give a country over to the Taliban + invite an emergent ISIS who immediately killed 13 of our best?
Now this.....again, more IMMEDIATELY BROKEN PROMISES made by the SoS and President.
Hey, thanks for the sermon, Wa St Blogger.
Howard vs. Chuck.
Records are made to be broken.
Drago said...
Achilles: "So in other words we were right and the WAPO was wrong.
The taliban is holding hostages.
1 pallet of cash per plane?"
Are you kidding?
This is the Installed *"president" and his team of democraticals/LLR-democraticals/NeverTrumpers: 1 pallet of cash per person plus other "considerations" to be named shortly.
Considerations?
Like Joe's 10%
There are Americans in Afghanistan right now trying to save people.
They are talking on other news outlets.
News outlets that give a shit about reporting actual news.
"I don't trust Blinken ..."
Agreed, and the trust deficit is not just limited to him (or Dems). McCaul too has a political agenda, as do the usual suspects in the media. Lacking anything better, you end up trusting (if that's the right word) your common sense, applied to very uncommon situations -- what sounds likely, given what you know about the workings of the world and surmise about the motivations of the players. But that way of looking at the world quickly becomes just another form of confirmation bias.
Yet that's inevitable when there is no objective and trustworthy source of information (even worse when the sources of information deny that the concept of 'objectivity' has any meaning). This is the politicized world that the experts, tech overlords and media savants have created. Lovely.
"But Blinken acknowledged Tuesday that without U.S. personnel on the ground, Washington is unable to verify the manifests and check the documents of passengers seeking charter flights out."
C'mon guys, these aren't hostages, these are undocumented aliens trying to sneak across the border. Or they might be. We have to check. No more malarkey. We're just manning the border.
I'd be willing to bet those poor souls desperately hoping to leave would describe themselves as hostages.
Hey, thanks for the sermon, Wa St Blogger.
Don't forget to leave a little bit in the offering plate.
You people are just pissed because it's no longer a free fire zone to slaughter women and children. You're only defense from being labeled evil is your prideful ignorance and well polished stupidity.
Howard: "You people are just pissed because it's no longer a free fire zone to slaughter women and children. You're only defense from being labeled evil is your prideful ignorance and well polished stupidity."
Just sit back and drink in the unique combination of invincible ignorance married to mendacity.
This latest LLR Chuck-like Howard "submission" is issued forth on a day when a we now know its Biden admin policy to leave US citizens abandoned in Afghanistan and to actively hinder the private rescue attempts being conducted by republicans/conservatives with one particular rescue of a woman and 3 children being successfully concluded despite the biden admin opposition only to have that same biden admin try to claim credit for the rescue op after the fact....a transparent lie being laughed out of the room across the globe but a lie that Howard has been pushing here today.
So, if you want to know why Howard is projecting the "women and children slaughtered" lie on Althouse blog today, its because he actively supports those very policies which will hand women and children into the hands of the Taliban.
The alliance between US democraticals and islamic supremacist groups continues apace.
Nice anecdote Drago
"You people are just pissed because it's no longer a free fire zone to slaughter women and children."
I'm pretty sure it still is.
"When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.”
As a number of people on this thread appear to have concluded, the operative word in Blinken's statement is 'Taliban' because it's the U.S State Department that's holding their exit up.
To the other Chris's point ... Yup, it is.
… but it’s all Trump’s fault. I was told so by my angry(white, male) neighbor. He sat down w/the Taliban- he set this all in motion…
Some people you just can’t talk about things w/: my neighbor.
B/c Trump’s a dink. B/c he says do, that’s why. B/c he heard it on the news!!!
Facts have been out of style since Trump became conservative. What a world.
PS I forgot cis, sis
I don't much like being in a situation where a group of fundamentalist thugs can take Americans hostage whenever they want to.
Oh, and they can torture and rape and murder them. Whenever they want to.
The Biden administration had better pray that they don't want to.
That isn't a position that we usually allow ourselves to be in. Right now, they could get on the phone with the President and tell him, How would it affect the politics of the next election if we started beheading an American every day? Yeah, we thought so. And we both know there really isn't anything you'd do about it. So, here's what we want you to do.
Maybe they already have.
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