March 8, 2021

"Mitt Romney didn't do it. John McCain didn't do it. There's something about Trump. There's a dark side and there's some magic there."

"What I'm tryin' to do is just harness the magic. To me, Donald Trump is sort of a cross between Jesse Helms, Ronald Reagan and P.T. Barnum. It's just this bigger than life deal. He could make the Republican Party something that nobody else I know can make it. He can make it bigger. He can make it stronger. He can make it more diverse. And he also could destroy it."

Said Lindsey Graham, quoted in "Graham deals with Trump 'dark side' to 'harness the magic'" (Axios).

121 comments:

wendybar said...

Unfortunately, Republicans like Lindsay didn't have his back when it mattered the most. Lindsay is a big talker...

Lyle said...

Lindsey Graham is on the dark side. Washington establishment all the way.

Fernandinande said...

Article: even after Trump harshly criticized McCain — Graham's longtime friend — and helped spark the Capitol insurrection.

EOT.

boatbuilder said...

Trump has absolutely nothing to do with Jessie Helms or P.T. Barnum for that matter.

More dog whistling for the libs. Or dog begging.

EdwdLny said...

Yea, the Jesse Helms / P.T. Barnum reference is rubbish. The Donald at the least worked for and is concerned with America and Americans. Unlike the fascist chicom sychofants currently occupying the white house and thoroughly populating the left as well as the disinterested GOP establishment.

Leland said...

Trump can’t destroy the GOP. Only those that seek Trump’s “magic” without accepting his message, that politicians should represent their constituents first, can destroy the GOP. Reagan had a similar message. Trump is nothing like PT Barnum.

Humperdink said...

Conservative Tree Treehouse critiques Lady Graham. It is not positive, too put it mildly.

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2021/03/07/senator-lindsey-graham-deploys-uniparty-outrage-chaff-and-countermeasures/

rehajm said...

I'm eligible to run against Lindsey. I'm thinking I can run on the I'm not Lindsey platform...

stevew said...

If the Republican party were to be made into something greater and bigger then what it is today would be destroyed. Thus destroying it, if you don't like what it currently is, is not a bad thing. The magic comes in with the notion that it can be remade into something different and better. I suspect Lyndsey Graham and the other GOP lifers (Romney, Collins, Murkowski, McConnell, etc.) will fight tooth and nail to maintain the status quo.

Mattman26 said...

What else did Romney and McCain not do? (Think hard.)

iowan2 said...

make the Republican Party something that nobody else I know can make it. He can make it bigger. He can make it stronger. He can make it more diverse. And he also could destroy it.

"Destroy it". The establishment spouts their crap and somehow wants us to believe it is a bad thing.

Lots of established entities have been destroyed. It's the natural process of evolution.

I can say farming in the midwest has been destroyed. In the sense that it has no resemblance to what I experienced growing up as a child. My point is, President Trump accepted the reality of the day and shepherded the Party into reality. Shedding the old, that no longer served a purpose.
I was living the evolution of business, and bristled at things like the ubiquitous "Mission Statement". What are you doing and why? What is the goal? I have been railing about the wu flu, and the lack of a defined goal at every single fork in the road. The goal of leadership was not the communicated goal to the people. That's why 1/2 the nation is in an uproar.

So I ask Grahm. What is the goal of the Republican Party? Because President Trump did as much to advance the stated goal, as any Republican President.

Russell said...

Uh oh, Graham is also making a criticism of Trump while also showering praise. That is not allowed. You are either 100% in favor of everything, including every objectively dumb tweet, or you are a RINO. Seriously, as the Democrats plan to run roughshod over the country, too many Trumpers (look at the comment feed over at Instapundit) act like its the Republicans who supported and voted for Trump but are also still critical of him as being all that is wrong with the country and must be purged, as if that is the avenue to a majority party. I think Graham is right. Trump has some secret sauce that appealed to a broader audience. That is to the good. But you cannot ignore that he also turns off a lot of people who otherwise would vote Republican and that's because he is incredibly mean spirited and he has zero tolerance for any criticism whatsoever and wishes to literally destroy anyone who criticized him. McConnell is the primary reason he had any domestic success and the Trumpers now want to primary him. He thinks Fox News is his enemy!! You can't get to a majority party by settling scores with every remotely critical person who would otherwise be a political ally. THAT'S WHY he could/will destroy the Republican party. Until he and his followers understand what a big tent actually means, we are doomed to have increasingly terrible ideas pushed by Democrats becoming law. And as I like to say, politicians come and go, but bureaucracy is forever. Democrats know that what they want to pass could be electoral kryptonite. But once they get it passed, they know Republicans won't be able to easily undo it even if they gain power. Not when you have literally every cultural institution pushing progressivism.

pacwest said...

The GOPe is trying to figure out the best way to make use of Trump. They still havent figured out that Trump was a wakeup call. The GOPe wants to sleep in in the comfy featherbed they've made. Good luck trying to use Trump. Ain't going to happen. As he said at CPAC, why start a new party? I already own this one.

Jeff Brokaw said...

LOL he says “destroy it” like it’s a bad thing. Well I suppose for DC swamp creatures whose very existence depends on the status quo, it is a bad thing, but for the rest of us, who despise the status quo and liked Trump’s disruption, maybe not such a bad thing ...

Trump showed the GOP consultants how full of shit they were: the party can get black and Latino voters, and he showed exactly to do it. They can win fair elections. They can take actual conservative positions!

But Orange Man Bad! Mean Tweets! This is how you know none of these people give a shit and are just along for the ride and the $$$.

narciso said...

How many of the den of thieves has lindsey confirmed again, including (jeff) garland.

CWJ said...

The GOPe destroyed itself for me when after nearly four years to come up with one, they had no replacement strategy for Obamacare when given the votes to do so. Being the minority part IS their strategy.

Amadeus 48 said...

Sounds about right.

Has Trump promised to use his super-powers only for peaceful purposes?

CWJ said...

Party not part.

Amadeus 48 said...

"Trump has absolutely nothing to do with... P.T. Barnum for that matter."

Surely you jest. Trump is more like P. T. Barnum than any other character in American history.

Mike Petrik said...

Protestations from cultists notwithstanding, Russell at 7:44 nailed it.

Readering said...

What was he thinking with the Helms comparison?

narciso said...

Where have they chosen to stand

https://mobile.twitter.com/JimDeMint/status/1368922839194230785

Readering said...

By risk of destruction I assume he has in mind 1/5, 1/6, his "fakenews" ruminations about forming a new party, and his cease and desist letters to his current party.

Readering said...

By PT Barnum I think he has in mind his rallies and spectacles.

Humperdink said...

"Protestations from cultists notwithstanding, Russell at 7:44 nailed it."

I disagree. The only thing the Turtle helped Trump with was the judges. The swamp was in pause mode from 2016-2020. It has now resumed it's ever increasing growth, except now on steroids. And McConnell and Lady Graham are not displeased. These two clowns had the opportunity, when they held sway over the senate, to expose the Dems for what they were and are. They punted like cowards.

wendybar said...

CWJ said...
The GOPe destroyed itself for me when after nearly four years to come up with one, they had no replacement strategy for Obamacare when given the votes to do so. Being the minority part IS their strategy.

3/8/21, 7:56 AM

THIS!! They lie outright to us, and then blame Trump.

Andrew said...

I obviously don't know what Graham was intending with his comparison, but I think his Jesse Helms reference is accurate. If you've never read Helms's speech to the United Nations (January, 2000), do yourself a favor. You can find it online. Or watch it on YouTube. It's very Trumpian.

Amadeus 48 said...

"By PT Barnum I think he has in mind his rallies and spectacles."

Trump's whole business career was built on hyping up things that at best were OK. That is not to say that he didn't have some real triumphs, because he did, but it really was the old razzle dazzle all the time.

Mr Wibble said...

The modern GOP and conservative movement were built by men who came out of WWII and the early Cold War. It shaped their views on the world, the US' role in world affairs, and the arguments made for policies such as free trade and immigration. However, the men and women who followed, who entered politics from the early 80s to the early aughts, were those who'd risen up in the movement. Rather than building institutions and developing new ideas, they learned to rising through the ranks of existing organizations and to refine, or outright parrot, existing ideology. The problem is that this stopped working around the mid 90s, when the fall of the USSR threw everything into disarray. The early War on Terror gave the establishment some hope that they could make the existing order fit this new reality, but it's been a mixed result at best. Trump's appeal is that he represents an attempt by the base to question the assumptions that drive the ideology of the right, and to challenge policies that are no longer working. That's not going away, as it forms the basis for much of the alt-right and will continue to grow.

Ray - SoCal said...

He is a fair weather ally of Trump.

narciso said...

Thats more mitt romneys game shuttering store fronts across the country with his chinese partners like huawei.

Mr Wibble said...

Trump's whole business career was built on hyping up things that at best were OK. That is not to say that he didn't have some real triumphs, because he did, but it really was the old razzle dazzle all the time.

Trump is a salesman, and I'm fine with that. Politics is sales, and often involves a certain amount of showmanship and theater. Part of the GOPs problem is that too many in the establishment are obsessed with playing the "sober, somber" statesman. It's become a cover for cowardice and indecisiveness.

narciso said...

We see the left steamroller every institution, and lindsay and janfu mcconnells answer is a plaintive arff.

J. Farmer said...

@boatbuilder:

Trump has absolutely nothing to do with Jessie Helms or P.T. Barnum for that matter.

More dog whistling for the libs. Or dog begging.


"Absolutely nothing to do with...P.T. Barnum"? Wtf?

Barnum was a showman, a promoter, an author, and a politician who liked to name things after himself. There is no contemporary figure more in the mold of P.T. Barnum than Donald J. Trump. I'm not sure if Jessie Helms was just a reference to stridency or an attempt to call Trump a racist. Either way, a cross between Reagan and Barnum is a pretty apt description of Trump's style. And that's the problem. Reagan's ghost has been haunting the GOP for years and needs to be exorcised.

Trump cannot lead the Republican Party. He has no grasp of the relevant issues, is too driven by ego and self-obsession, and is too influenced by the Kushner clan. No thanks.

narciso said...

Thats mandarin for warlord,

Kevin said...

"Mitt Romney didn't do it. John McCain didn't do it.

There was a brief moment during the Kavanaugh hearings when it looked like Lindsey Graham might do it.

That moment has long since passed.

narciso said...

Kavanaugh and gorsuch and barrett were awol and have cancelled themselves

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

zero tolerance for any criticism whatsoever and wishes to literally destroy anyone who criticized him.

What a load of crap this is. He couldn’t stand the LYING about him 24/7 that the DNC-Media complex adopted as their mission, with everything oriented as Trump hate — including medical professionals making up ant-HCQ arguments just to oppose him — and no mention of any success. Like the whole “kids in cages” bullshit, a #FakeNews extravaganza meant to smear Trump as racist while covering up for Obama’s legacy (win win for fake news!) and of course there was russia collusion! Right?

The part bolded is especially ripe bullshit: “literally destroy” LOL. The DC establishment and various D-controlled “investigations” have gone after Trump, Trump’s business long before running for POTUS, his children and their businesses; SWAT raids on Stone and other Trump associates, extraordinary legal torture of Flynn and Carter (innocent men!), FBI and CIA and traps set by the very people he was supposed to depend on as president. This was and is an ongoing effort to destroy Trump. Utterly erase him and smear him now as an insurrectionist. My god they broke the constitution going after him after he LEFT office, which by the way they all said he would never leave.

Trump “destroyed” no one. He pulled the curtain back on the swamp and exposed these people. I’d argue that Pelosi has effectively killed her own reputation by being a lying little paper-ripping bitch. Like Graham. Linsey can fuck right off.

Ron Winkleheimer said...

Trump cannot lead the Republican Party. He has no grasp of the relevant issues, is too driven by ego and self-obsession, and is too influenced by the Kushner clan. No thanks.

Even if what you say is true, I don't but for the sake of argument, they're irrelevant. Trump is leading the GOP currently and will continue to do so because he champions the issues the base considers relevant and he has charisma. This idea that we need to abandon Trump because some people find him distasteful and build a "movement" is nonsense. Come back to me when you can find someone else who can fill up stadiums.


Kevin said...

He has no grasp of the relevant issues, is too driven by ego and self-obsession, and is too influenced by the Kushner clan.

You can say just about anything about Trump other than he doesn't understand the relevant issues.

China is an enemy and we are already at war with them.
The Southern border is what's keeping wages down for low-income Americans.
Energy independence keeps our sons and daughters from dying in the Middle East.
The Palestinians are no longer players in the region.
The American economy should not accept 6% unemployment and 3% growth.

The list of things Trump has a grasp on like no other politician in Washington is long and shocking. It's what gets him excused for all of the other issues people cite.

Kevin said...

Kavanaugh and gorsuch and barrett were awol and have cancelled themselves

Roberts has convinced them not to get involved until the right moment.

A moment that will never appear to Roberts.

narciso said...

As the left devalues legitimate elections silences opposition voice and purges the military, lindsay says what

Humperdink said...

"Trump cannot lead the Republican Party. He has no grasp of the relevant issues... "

Farmer, I don't know how you can type this with a straight face. See China, jobs, abortion, 2nd amendment, getting out of wars, Mideast peace. Yeah, Trump's clueless (barf).

Ron Winkleheimer said...

I know I shouldn't, but I'm looking forward to seeing the sputtering of some of my friends and relatives when the equality act passes and national guard troops are deployed to high school track meets. Or when gas goes over $5 a gallon with the resultant increase in the price of everything.

Ron Winkleheimer said...

Or when a national draft is instituted because no sane person is going to join the military. Also, people who don't go to college need to be educated in the correct ideology too.

rcocean said...

Lindsey Graham ran for POTUS and got 1%. I seriously doubt he could get elected Senator anywhere except South Carolina. for some reason, southerners like to elect a senator and then keep re-electing them forever.

People should remember that Graham was calling Trump a Racist/sexist/Bigot/Homophobe in 2016, and forecasting his defeat. IRC, like McCain he called for Trump to drop out in October 2016 and hand the Presidency over to Hillary. He was part of McCain "Gang of 14" that helped the Democrats filibuster conservative judges, and he supported McCain picking Joe Lieberman as his VP in 2008.

IOW, he's not only NOT a consistent Conservative, he's a loser when it comes to understanding national politics. The Republican Party listened to him, McCain, Romney, and Bush and led us to defeat. In fact, as shown by his behavior in 2016 and Jan 2020, Graham doesn't want to win. He's perfectly happy as minority, and TALKING BIG.

Michael K said...

Another good reason to ignore Farmer.

rcocean said...

After his death, we found out that almost every close McCain aide in 2008, was either a sexual abuser or a closet liberal democrat. I wonder what the story is Lindsey. I'd bet his aides are all liberals too.

D.D. Driver said...

"Mitt Romney didn't do it. John McCain didn't do it."

To be fair they were also running against Obama. Either man would have beat HRC and probably by a wider margin than Trump. Trump eeked out a victory by the skin of his teeth.

Reminder people: Trump got his ass kicked in the Wisconsin primary but won the head to head against HRC. MRC united the party in 2016. Not Trump.

rcocean said...

Take Trump out of the Republican party and what do you have? Silly, motor-mouth lindsey, Mumbles McConnell, and Plastic Man McCarthy. Not to mention warmonger liz cheney who just called her voters "White supremists".

IOW, its a disaster area. These characters stand for nothing except "Hey, the Democrats are worse". That's it. Imagine a Mitt Romney presidency! Tax cuts for the Rich, and 70% of what of the Democrats want. That's all they stand for.

rcocean said...

Last Post. Lindsey Graham is personally liberal, and like McCain LOVES To punch Right. Imagine calling Trump "part jesse Helms"! Yes, because enforcing the Immigration laws, looking out the American worker, and wanting good trade deals is "Right Wing".

Per Miss Lindsey.

D.D. Driver said...

Another good reason to ignore Farmer.

You should ignore everyone and everything that doesn't confirm your beliefs.

This is also how the proggies control their ranks.

Michael K said...

Blogger Ron Winkleheimer said...
Or when a national draft is instituted because no sane person is going to join the military.


This is an interesting question. A family member who is a Navy SeaBee CPO has decided not to reenlist and go civilian where his job skills are in demand because of the political BS in the Navy. For about 7 years I interviewed young men and women entering the military. The staffers at the MEPS are all retired military and they heaved a sigh of relief when Trump canceled the tranny enlistment rules. I wonder what will happen to the military with the Obama/Biden rules ?

wendybar said...

You can say just about anything about Trump other than he doesn't understand the relevant issues.

China is an enemy and we are already at war with them.
The Southern border is what's keeping wages down for low-income Americans.
Energy independence keeps our sons and daughters from dying in the Middle East.
The Palestinians are no longer players in the region.
The American economy should not accept 6% unemployment and 3% growth.

The list of things Trump has a grasp on like no other politician in Washington is long and shocking. It's what gets him excused for all of the other issues people cite.

THIS!!!...Obviously the original poster watches too much CNN to know the truth.

Temujin said...

I think Lindsey got this much right: "He could make the Republican Party something that nobody else I know can make it. He can make it bigger. He can make it stronger. He can make it more diverse. And he also could destroy it."

The other reality is that this stuff that he has, this 'dark side' if that's what he's calling it, is just who Trump is. It's not dark. He's just abnormal when it comes to having a societal filter; knowing what to say, what not to say, when to say it, and how to say it- in front of other people. That's a societal norm. He's unaffected by the 'norms'. And that's one of his super powers.

I wish he was 20 years younger, because there's so much he gets that the rest of the politicians and Journalists! don't get. And his results spoke for themselves. Barack Obama, John Podesta, and Susan Rice are now calling the shots for Joe Biden. You can clearly see how little they understand. Only their own power. That's their one and only goal, Every day. Every time they speak. To me, that's the dark side.

GMay said...

"Trump cannot lead the Republican Party. He has no grasp of the relevant issues..."

Considering those that supposedly do grasp the relevant issues have been perennially and demonstrably wrong for decades, someone needs to adjust their thinking; and it's not Trump.

Howard said...

Trump is a one of one. Any attempt to recreate another one is folly. Best to stick with the genuine article and ride him into the dirt.

I disagree with Farmer. If the Republicans ditch Trump, the party will be critically wounded. It's best for Republicans to let Trumpism die a long slow natural death.

Freeman Hunt said...

Pretty sharp insight. Or maybe it's refreshing to get a bit of honest commentary out of a politician. I like Graham more and more over the years.

GMay said...

Graham could have done what Trump did, to an appreciable degree, if he had bothered making a serious effort at achieving stated Republican party goals. Trump was only significantly conservative in a handful of areas (immigration, some economic policy, some defense), and that netted him huge returns from voters.

If the rest of the GOP were concerned for their party platforms beyond corporate tax cuts, they'd be unstoppable. But it took less than two weeks after the election to start singing the same old tunes.

J. Farmer said...

@Ron Winkleheimer:

This idea that we need to abandon Trump because some people find him distasteful and build a "movement" is nonsense. Come back to me when you can find someone else who can fill up stadiums.

I don't give a fuck that "some people find him distasteful." I find him distasteful, but that's not my criticism of him. My argument is that he's ignorant and incompetent. Filling stadiums full of people in denial and then reinforcing their denial is not a healthy thing.

J. Farmer said...

@Humperdink:

Farmer, I don't know how you can type this with a straight face. See China, jobs, abortion, 2nd amendment, getting out of wars, Mideast peace. Yeah, Trump's clueless (barf).

Trump got next to nowhere with China, and the phase one deal was a face-saving, can-kicking endeavor whose signature accomplishment was blatant managed trade mercantilism. We didn't get out of any wars. Mideast "peace" is a bogus PR term.

J. Farmer said...

@Kevin:

The list of things Trump has a grasp on like no other politician in Washington is long and shocking. It's what gets him excused for all of the other issues people cite.

Trump's "grasp" mostly consists of regurgitating horseshit from the right-wing media ecosystem and has thus become the pied piper of the Republican Party. Clap and cheer for Bahrain establishing diplomatic ties to Israel but pay no attention to your demographic demise.

Ron Winkleheimer said...

So Farmer's assertion is that Trump didn't really accomplish anything. I counter with low gas prices (energy independence), 3% unemployment, rising middle class wages, controlling illegal immigration. All while facing a hostile press that lies about him and the deep state who was determined to wait him out and rigged an election to get rid of him.

GMay said...

"Trump's "grasp" mostly consists of regurgitating horseshit from the right-wing media ecosystem and has thus become the pied piper of the Republican Party. Clap and cheer for Bahrain establishing diplomatic ties to Israel but pay no attention to your demographic demise."

Translation: Pay no attention to this real foreign policy achievement and pay attention to this one talking point that circulates on the rightest of right-wing media ecosystems.

stlcdr said...

Graham playing both sides.

Earnest Prole said...

I think we can all agree with Lindsey we’re hoping Trump will use his evil for good.

D.D. Driver said...

Filling stadiums full of people in denial and then reinforcing their denial is not a healthy thing.

(1) Filling up stadiums
(2) ???
(3) Beating Joe Biden while he hides in his basement.

Drago said...

D.D.Driver: "To be fair they were also running against Obama. Either man would have beat HRC and probably by a wider margin than Trump."

False and false.

Both McCain and Romney spent much more of their time attacking their base voters than democraticals. And McCain was downright obsequious to obambi while romney spent his time lecturing republicans while surrendering to Candy Crowley on live TV.

Neither McCain nor Romney would have fought hard against Hillary. They would have spent the entire campaign praising her for being the first female presidential candidate and for being so wonderfully level headed and amazingly brilliant...just a tad too liberal. Yes, it would have been a "powerful" attack against hillary....(wink wink)

Meanwhile, "angry crazy guy who cant lift his arms who owns 7 houses because of his second wife" would have been the successful Destructo-line against McCain while Romney's "binders full of women"/"dog on roof"/"high school haircut for gay dude who killed himself"/"gave a woman cancer and killed her"/"was literally Gordon Gecko" would have buried Romney in his loser status grave by the end of August 2016.

effinayright said...

@Farmer:

Yeah, exorcise "Reagan's ghost", that's really gonna work to unify the GOP.

Why not tell us WHY, and WHAT will replace his legacy?

Snort.

Big Mike said...

Farmer, I don't know how you can type this with a straight face.

@Humperdink, I think Farmer has adequately explained how he can type stupid bullshit with a straight face. He chooses not to live in a real world.

effinayright said...

@Farmer:

Before the 2020 election was stolen , what were the people in the stadiums Trump filled "in denial" about?

You mention demographics, as if the Dems don't have a huge number of white people who are in the same boat re: demographic changes.

Humperdink said...

Did I mention Trump was clueless about energy independence? Ask the middle class and the working poor about gasoline prices in a year or two when Biden goes all green. Yeah Farmer, Trump was befuddled on the issues.

I think you are just a contrarian.

Howard said...

So Farmer, how is the Republican party going to survive if you alienate the roughly 40,000,000 hard corp Trumpers? Even Pence is walking back to Daddy.

Yancey Ward said...

Trump showed the Republican leadership how they might escape the demographic corner they have boxed themselves into in the last 30 years. They didn't listen between 2015 and 2021, so I don't believe Graham has a fucking clue even now.

I think Trump won't run again simply due to his age. My guess is the candidate in 2024 will be some lifelong D.C. creature who will proceed to lose all the states Trump lost in 2020 plus Florida, Ohio, and Iowa while retaking Georgia and Arizona (and this is me assuming we don't do mail-in ballots nationwide again- if we do, the Republican won't win Georgia, Arizona, or North Carolina).

Yancey Ward said...

I suspect Trump is simply sui generis.

bagoh20 said...

"I think you are just a contrarian."

That is extremely kind.

Yancey Ward said...

It is utterly fucking delusional to believe any other candidate could have beaten Hillary Clinton in 2016. Trump only managed the feat by winning three states the Republicans hadn't won in 30 years- states Bush Jr. couldn't win even when he won the popular vote with an actual majority of the popular vote in 2004. A Marco Rubio, for example, would have lost WI, MI, and PA for certain, and would likely have lost Iowa and maybe Ohio, too.

The loss of VA, CO, and NV to the Democrats after 2004 killed their chances to win- all three of those states are now solidly blue- they elect Democrats at the presidential, senate, and governor levels consistently. The only way Republicans are going to win the presidency again is to break that lock on the deeply white upper midwest- if they don't, they won't win again in my lifetime or after.

D.D. Driver said...

It is utterly fucking delusional to believe any other candidate could have beaten Hillary Clinton in 2016. Trump only managed the feat by winning three states the Republicans hadn't won in 30 years- states Bush Jr. couldn't win even when he won the popular vote with an actual majority of the popular vote in 2004

Trump got his ass kicked--it was not even fucking close--in the Wisconsin primary. It was was a fucking blood bath. He lost to Cruz by 150k votes. And yet, when given only the choice between HRC and Trump, voters held ther noses and went for Trump.


J. Farmer said...

@Ron Winkleheimer:

So Farmer's assertion is that Trump didn't really accomplish anything. I counter with low gas prices (energy independence), 3% unemployment, rising middle class wages, controlling illegal immigration. All while facing a hostile press that lies about him and the deep state who was determined to wait him out and rigged an election to get rid of him.

I did not say that "Trump didn't really accomplish anything." I voted for him twice. I said that he "cannot lead the Republican Party" because he "has no grasp of the relevant issues."

Tax cuts, deregulation, and more military spending aren't innovative initiatives. They've been Republican Party dogma for 40 years. Yes, Trump has rightly complained about illegal immigration, but his administration also vastly increased H-2B visas and Trump himself has said that he wants immigrants to come in the "largest numbers ever" if they do so legally.

Colonel Mustard said...

Russell says Trump is "too mean-spirited"... YGBSM

From Day 1, John McCain was the personification of vindictiveness. Nancy made it clear that Goal 1 was the removal of Trump from office by any means available to the absurd extreme of impeaching him after he left office. Frankly, Ms. Pelosi's nationally broadcast theatrical insult of tearing up the President's State of the Union address behind his back might have called for pistols at ten paces in an earlier time. Much of the DOJ and Intel establishment did everything imaginable to harass and threaten him and the Judiciary reminded us by refusing to even examine evidence of a fraudulent election why our founders rejected privileged tyrants in robes who remained at court without actual check or balance.

A truly mean spirited Trump would have given Clapper, Brennan, Clinton and a large number of senior DOJ officials the Flynn/Stone/Manafort treatment. He would have also cashiered half the senior military leadership.

His fault, IMO, was heeding deliberately horrible advice in filling key positions in his administration including, perhaps, the three new "originalist" Supremes.

In spite of all attacks against him, he managed to begin revitalization of industry in America by new corporate tax rates that brought American profits home (in stark contrast to Slick Barry who told us to get over it, those jobs aren't coming back), by proving Obama wrong again when that President mockingly asked Americans whether they really believed we could drill our way out of energy dependence, by having the balls to hold our "allies" feet to the fire on sharing the burden of defense. The list of accomplishments benefitting the country is much longer, of course.

I pray this story doesn't end with the Democrats acting out a fate noted in song by J Buffett... Made enough money to buy Miami (the World)/but I (we) pissed it away so fast/never meant to last/never meant to last...

traditionalguy said...

DJT dared to tell truth dovetails with Q intel. That made him the mother of all targets.

J. Farmer said...

@wholelottasplainin':

Yeah, exorcise "Reagan's ghost", that's really gonna work to unify the GOP.

Why not tell us WHY, and WHAT will replace his legacy?

Snort.


It needs to become a more Christian Democratic party, center-left on economic issues and right on cultural and social issues. It needs to be less classical liberal and more classical republican. It needs to advocate "good governance" rather than a Randian worship of private enterprise. America First nationalism.

In 1980, the white working class was 70% of the US population. After 40 years of neoliberalism and financialization, they are 40% of the population. Not only has the white working-class declined as a share of the population, they've declined in absolute numbers. Their share of income earned and wealth owned has also declined. The primary beneficiary of those policies have been the elite who loathe Trump and the deplorables. Reagan, H.W. Bush, Clinton, W. Bush, and Obama were all neoliberals.

Yes, Reagan united the party. But he did it around terrible ideas.

J. Farmer said...

@Howard:

So Farmer, how is the Republican party going to survive if you alienate the roughly 40,000,000 hard corp Trumpers? Even Pence is walking back to Daddy.

I don't have the slightest idea. Our current choices are between crap and crappier.

My basic political outlook hasn't changed much from 20 years ago. Diversity breeds division. As we become a more diverse society, we become a more divided society. We have a nation-state but no nation. The state is controlled by an organized minority of elite interests that dominates our society while the disorganized minority scream at each other on Twitter.

Jim at said...

Protestations from cultists notwithstanding, Russell at 7:44 nailed it.

Calling people cultists probably isn't the best path towards a bigger tent.

Colonel Mustard said...

I'm curious. Why, specifically, would it be difficult to vote for DeSantis/Noem? No doubt the media will dig-up/dream-up something between now and '24 but they look golden now.

FWIW, you can count me as a "Never Pencer". Ditto Haley.

Michael K said...

I think Trump won't run again simply due to his age. My guess is the candidate in 2024 will be some lifelong D.C. creature who will proceed to lose all the states Trump lost in 2020 plus Florida, Ohio, and Iowa while retaking Georgia and Arizona (and this is me assuming we don't do mail-in ballots nationwide again- if we do, the Republican won't win Georgia, Arizona, or North Carolina).

I agree with this. We should have a good clue in 2022. If there is no result similar to 1994, we are in for civil war. Probably after the economy crashes about 2025.

D.D. Driver said...

DJT dared to tell truth dovetails with Q intel. That made him the mother of all targets.

Whatever you do: don't call these nutters "cultists."

The Crack Emcee said...

Jim at said...

"Calling people cultists probably isn't the best path towards a bigger tent."

Compromising the truth, and your values - for reasons like this - is why Bill Clinton walks free from rape charges.

rhhardin said...

It's not the dark side. It's zingers to call out assholes.

Drago said...

I see our resident LLR-lefty pro-pedophile troll simply cannot help himself.

So many compulsions stacked one on top of the other.

I guess the Whitmer Re-election Team took a break and freed up some time for C****.

Kevin said...

Clap and cheer for Bahrain establishing diplomatic ties to Israel...

I used to think I should take you seriously about the Middle East.

Now we can all stop wasting our time.

Jamie said...

I'm sorry... the GOP needs to be center left on economic issues? In God's name, why? Setting aside the question of whether center-left economic theories work in the real world and over the long term, a la Keynesianism, in what way would the GOP distinguish itself from the DNC (or at least what the DNC claims to be, "really") if it went center left on economics?

Ah. By being the party of nosy sticks-up-their-butts laughable God-botherers who blanch at the sight of two men kissing. I see.

Somehow I'm doubting you want to see the GOP survive this generation in the wilderness.

Drago said...

Colonel Mustard: "I'm curious. Why, specifically, would it be difficult to vote for DeSantis/Noem?"

Because for pro-marxist/democratical political hegemony foot soldiers like LLR-lefty Chuck, no strong conservative combo is ever going to be appealing.

Even worse from a LLR-lefty Chuck perspective, DeSantis served in the military and Noem is smart and attractive.

And if you want to see LLR-lefty Chuck have a complete meltdown, start talking about conservatives who served in the military or attractive smart conservative women.

LLR-lefty Chuck has over 5+ years of spittle-flecked blog rage attacks against such people. And if someone in one of those categories is also black, like Ben Carson or John James or Thomas Sowell, LLR-lefty Chuck goes completely bonkers!

Seriously, the violent imagery he projects us really very disturbing

And dont bring kids into the conversation. He doesnt like them either...unless they are victims of John Weaver and Team Pedophile.

In that case Chuck is very, very cool with it.

cubanbob said...

Screw all the GOPe's. All they do is is text me and email constantly on how we need to beat the Democrats and undo the crap they have done. Like a putz in sent a number of them money as a wish Rep is still better than a Prog. They all tell me how much they support trump while kniffing him whenever they can. Trump is enough for them to raise money. Screw that. Trump did the best anyone could have done given the circumstances, not one of his Republican DC detractors could have won in 2016 and but the once in a century convergence of the virus, the media and the fraud could have the Democrats have "won". I remember how tough all the Republicans were when Obama was president, how they going to repeal Obamacare and they sent bill after bill knowing Obama would veto. So when Trumps get in what do they do? Nothing. The same bills they sent to Obama they could have sent to Trump but didn't. Thats tell you all you need to know about these Republicans. Could Trump have done more? Sure but he wasn't a dictator so blaming him for the Republicans in Congress blowing it is just stupid. Had the Republicans in Congress gone along with Trump they would be the majority now and Trump would have been president. The only thing Trump got wrong was the depth and turbidity of the DC swamp. Even on the judges McConnell wasn't as helpful as he could have been. He could of dispensed with the Senatorial Blue Slip and had judges nominated in Democrat circuits but deliberately tanked that along with plenty of other measures.

As for Romney or McCain defeating Hillary, there aren't enough drugs in the world to believe that. Think of what she did with her Russia Hoax against trump and try to think for a second she wouldn't have done the same to any other Republican in 2016. Will Trump run again in 2024? Who knows. But I do know if the Republicans allow the massive legalization of vote fraud now there won't a Republic President and Congress in 2024 and a long time after that.

J Farmer must grossly over inventoried with Bovine Excrement because he sure tries mighty hard to sell it.

effinayright said...

J. Farmer said...

It {GOP] needs to advocate "good governance" rather than a Randian worship of private enterprise. America First nationalism.
**********

Last time I looked, the Constitution itself was supposed to epitomize "good governance", as in "the littler the better". The last thing Reagan and his follows want is "good governance" as in the smothering embrace of the Nanny State. You effectively want the GOP to embrace the Borg and become progressive, let alone old-fashioned Democrats.

And you certainly ought to know that Rand despised Reagan for numerous reasons, not the least of which was his adherence to Christianity and social conservatives. Whatever he thought of her views on "private enterprise", he knew that the U.S. had long since given that idea up through government regulation and creation of agencies to regulate businesses large and small. The GOP today seems uncomfortably...comfortable with that situation.

We already have huge collusion among Big Government, Big Tech and Big Business.

Odd, isn't it, that such a symbiotic relationship isn't referred to by its historical name:
Fascism.

cubanbob said...

Jeez Chuck, do you seriously believe Senile China Joe actually got eighty million votes? Even you can't be that delusional. Trump on the other hand did get more votes than any other Republican presidential candidate ever, a fact that is not in dispute. If the Democrats really thought they were going to win legit, they wouldn't have done the dirty legal deeds they did such as changing election laws and rules during an election with the blessing of the courts who refused to accept the arguments on their face and let the complaints be heard. Schumer's threat to pack the court worked. Fraud and intimidation got the Democrats the victory, not a legitimate election. But then if you actually were a real life long Republican instead of a troll you wouldn't spouting your nonsense. Say how's you governor doing? Do something useful for your state, help get a recall election going. You are a hot shot lawyer ( so you claim)and a LLR so start doing and put your money where your mouth is.

D.D. Driver said...

Last time I looked, the Constitution itself was supposed to epitomize "good governance", as in "the littler the better"

What do you do with this type of thinking--the naive belief that when government is big enough it will only do all the wonderful things in my imagination and everything will be better. We will start electing angels that will do all the good things and stop doing the bad stuff. Our bureaucratic state take care of people. American people. And we will all be so happy and unified because our "good governance" will be taking care of Americans first.

But what this actually looks like in practice is stolen farms and empty Foxxconn factories in Mount Pleasant.

J. Farmer said...

@Jamie:

I'm sorry... the GOP needs to be center left on economic issues? In God's name, why? Setting aside the question of whether center-left economic theories work in the real world and over the long term, a la Keynesianism, in what way would the GOP distinguish itself from the DNC (or at least what the DNC claims to be, "really") if it went center left on economics?

By being socially conservative, law and order, personal responsibility, regionalism, localism, etc. Trump ran on a populist economic agenda in 2016, including expressing skepticism towards "free" trade and vowing, "I’m not going to cut Social Security like every other Republican and I’m not going to cut Medicare or Medicaid." He later vowed to provide health insurance "for everyone."

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

Do name a Republican who cut Social Security.

A scare tactic used by the left, that If I recall, is never true.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

Temujin 10:10

I wish he was 20 years younger, because there's so much he gets that the rest of the politicians and Journalists! don't get. And his results spoke for themselves. Barack Obama, John Podesta, and Susan Rice are now calling the shots for Joe Biden. You can clearly see how little they understand. Only their own power. That's their one and only goal, Every day. Every time they speak. To me, that's the dark side.

That.

narciso said...

in other merry melodies,


https://twitchy.com/dougp-3137/2021/03/01/neontaster-highlights-jennifer-rubins-4-part-journey-of-self-discovery-on-gov-andrew-cuomo/

J. Farmer said...

@wholelottasplainin':

Last time I looked, the Constitution itself was supposed to epitomize "good governance", as in "the littler the better". The last thing Reagan and his follows want is "good governance" as in the smothering embrace of the Nanny State.

The Constitution created only a national government. The state governments had much broader power through their so called "police power." The incorporation of the Bill of Rights against the state governments did not begin until the late 19th century.

We already have huge collusion among Big Government, Big Tech and Big Business.

Odd, isn't it, that such a symbiotic relationship isn't referred to by its historical name:
Fascism.


Collusion between business and the state has been with us since the start of the Republic. A national bank, internal improvements, and tariffs were all established to foster commercial development.

Once powerful industrialized states rose in the 19th century, the US was either going to become a powerful industrialized state or it was going to be subjugated by one. There is no country that has an unregulated banking or energy or arms industry. Corporate law aren't immutable laws of physics; they're created by legislative bodies.

Jeff said...

Farmer, how does what you're advocating for the Republican Party differ from National Socialism? Or Mussolini-style fascism?

Leland said...

The GOPe destroyed itself for me when after nearly four years to come up with one, they had no replacement strategy for Obamacare when given the votes to do so. Being the minority part IS their strategy.

Truth! Trump adopted that pillar of the GOP platform. The GOPe created it to gain votes, but when they got the votes which they claimed to need; they failed to act. Trump didn't cause that failure. They did it all themselves, and entirely in the Senate where Romney, McCain, and Graham all had a say.

effinayright said...

Farmer, you slid past my point that Reagan was never a proponent of Randian ideas of private enterprise, in that we have had a mixed economy for more than 100 years, beginning with the Anti-Trust laws.

As to the connections between government and private enterprise, we have clearly reached a point unprecedented in American history, where an Unholy alliance of an enormous Federal Government---in cahoots with Enormous Big Government and a Tech Media with powers to control and squelch free exceeding those of governments themselves---leading us to a fascistic system unlike anything we've ever seen.

As for the relative roles of the states vs. the federal government since the Founding, one can argue that national banks and regulation of Big Business were "necessary and proper" under the Constitution. Ditto the incorporation of Bill of Rights, especially after the Civil War and ratification of the 13th-15th Amendments.

But we've moved way past that now, where the Federal government has achieved utter dominance over the States by using the covid panic to assert unconstitutional "emergency" powers it has no intention to give.

On top of that we've got a radical Dem Congress aiming for a one-party nation, unfettered by state election laws and determined to reduce Flyover states to political and social irrelevance.

Are you down with that?

Just who is it here that's ignoring the Big Issues?

J. Farmer said...

@wholelottasplainin':

Farmer, you slid past my point that Reagan was never a proponent of Randian ideas of private enterprise, in that we have had a mixed economy for more than 100 years, beginning with the Anti-Trust laws.

I never said that Reagan was.

Ditto the incorporation of Bill of Rights, especially after the Civil War and ratification of the 13th-15th Amendments.

Precisely. The 14th amendment changed the constitutional order of the country.

leading us to a fascistic system unlike anything we've ever seen.

How about when we were prosecuting people for opposing American involvement in WWI? "Free speech" as we understand the concept today was developed through jurisprudence over the course of the 20th century.

Are you down with that?

Just who is it here that's ignoring the Big Issues?


The dissident right has been talking about these issues for 30 years, while the GOP was advancing a globalist agenda.

narciso said...

meanwhile


https://thefederalist.com/2021/03/08/15-insane-things-in-democrats-h-r-1-bill-to-corrupt-elections-forever/

J. Farmer said...

@Jeff:

Farmer, how does what you're advocating for the Republican Party differ from National Socialism? Or Mussolini-style fascism?

Democratic elections, separation of powers, and rule of law to name a few. What is it that you think I'm "advocating for the Republican Party" that is peculiar to German Nazism and Italian Fascism?

Achilles said...

The problems with our country go past anything we can do in an election.

We have lost touch with the core concept that we must take personal responsibility for ourselves and to work on ourselves first.

And the people we elect are the worst people among us because the job qualifications for being an elected official are being able to convince as many people as possible to support what you say.

Nobody cares what they do.

Achilles said...

D.D. Driver said...

DJT dared to tell truth dovetails with Q intel. That made him the mother of all targets.

Whatever you do: don't call these nutters "cultists."

The issue here is that most people treat politics like religion. This describes people like DD Driver. It describes most people who are talking about politics here.

The religious paradigm drives the labeling of anyone in a group of people by a pejorative like "cultist" and a gross simplification of their position to something that you can justify dismissing as evil.

You will never see someone like DD Driver try to honestly repeat someone's position back to them, ask them if he has it right, and deal with the arguments made. This is a critical approach.

A critical approach gets you better results in the long run. But religious thinkers do not think about long term. They are stuck in the now.

It is part of being limited.

D.D. Driver said...

The issue here is that most people treat politics like religion. This describes people like DD Driver. It describes most people who are talking about politics here.

The issue, here, is that the person I quoted is a Q Anon nutjob. Maybe you missed that part. Maybe you a a Q Anon loser too....

In the Venn Diagram, the circle for paranoid loser conspriacy theorists and the circle for Trump dead-enders are in missionary position.

J. Farmer said...

@Achilles:

The problems with our country go past anything we can do in an election.

We have lost touch with the core concept that we must take personal responsibility for ourselves and to work on ourselves first.


I agree 100% with your first sentence, and I disagree 100% with your second sentence. The problem with the working class is not that they've experienced some sudden decline in their moral character. In fact, it's a real kick in the dick for a society to pursue policies that suppress wages at the bottom, deindustrialize entire regions, contribute massive demographic changes, and expose the working class to a great deal of insecurity and alienation and then say that their problem is they lack personal responsibility.

It's not lack of personal responsibility that is harming our society but the lack of social responsibility. There is no nation that unites us. We're balkanized into various ethno-regional and sectarian identity groups. This balkanization prevents any serious opposition to the bourgeois bohemians who run our society.

J. Farmer said...

@Achilles:

The issue here is that most people treat politics like religion. This describes people like DD Driver. It describes most people who are talking about politics here.

I tend to agree with this, as well. In fact, it seems that over the last couple of decades partisan identity has taken on the characteristics of ethnic identity. In fact, Americans tend to be less mistrustful of people of differing religious, linguistic, or racial backgrounds than they are of people with differing party identities. It looks as if political polarization is being driven more by out-group animosity than in-group favoritism.

Kansas City said...

I sort of like Graham, but he always talks too much and shows up on TV too much. He always sounds sincere, but I don't know. Instead of trying to make Trump a future savior, he should focus on exposing the fraud in Washington and, if it does not work, go home in six years. Or someone should.

effinayright said...

J. Farmer said...
@Jeff:

Farmer, how does what you're advocating for the Republican Party differ from National Socialism? Or Mussolini-style fascism?

Democratic elections, separation of powers, and rule of law to name a few.

** AS IF H.R. 1 doesn't do away with democratic elections!

** AS IF the attempts to pack the Supreme court isn't a means to make the judicial branch a rubber stamp for the leftist legislature!

** AS IF the utter failure to hold ANYONE at the top accountable for the Obama FBI and DOJ's attempt to destroy Trump's candidacy and Presidency isn't an example of the end of the rule of Law!

What is it that you think I'm "advocating for the Republican Party" that is peculiar to German Nazism and Italian Fascism?

** You began by arguing for the GOP to embrace "good government", when we can see the Dems offering a smothering Nanny State that destroys people who don't surrender to it.

** "Everything within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state."

sound familiar?

J. Farmer said...

@wholelottasplainin':

** "Everything within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state."

sound familiar?


Sure. It just as fuck all to do with anything I've talked about. The US would only have to increase its public sector or spending as a percent of GDP by a few points to be more on par with other well-developed economies. This has nothing to do with "everything within the state." But it is a good example of the kneejerk anti-statism that pervades so much of the Republican Party.

The problem we face is a globalized, financialized elite driven by profit-seeking and capital accumulation and abhors restrictions on the free movement of labor and capital provided by national borders. Pissing your pants about 1930s Italy is fiddling while Rome burns.

effinayright said...

Farmer, as usual you slide right past the refutations I made regarding your comment to Jeff:

Jeff:

Farmer, how does what you're advocating for the Republican Party differ from National Socialism? Or Mussolini-style fascism?

You: Democratic elections, separation of powers, and rule of law to name a few.

********

Report back when you can address what I said to respond to your nonsensical claim.

What a pseudo-intellectual poseur you are, pretending to offer wisdom from 40,000 feet.

About everything.

J. Farmer said...

@wholelottasplainin':

Farmer, as usual you slide right past the refutations I made regarding your comment to Jeff:

Report back when you can address what I said to respond to your nonsensical claim.


The question was "how does what...[I'm] advocating for the Republican Party differ from National Socialism? Or Mussolini-style fascism?" Your list of things the Democratic Party is doing has nothing to do with the question. For example, if I said that the Republican Party should advocate a pro-life position on abortion, it isn't a refutation to say, "AS IF Democrats aren't pro-abortion!"

What a pseudo-intellectual poseur you are, pretending to offer wisdom from 40,000 feet.

Here's a simple solution: don't read what I write. But if that is too difficult, feel free to call me every name in the book. I don't give a fuck. Whatever else I am, I am at least capable of having a calm, respectful, rational conversation with someone I disagree with. I have no need to take what you write personally, insult you, or attack your character.

I generally suspect that when people require their ideological opponents to be either stupid or evil, it is because they have not arrived at their positions through reasoning but through emotionalism. It's the tribal aspect of partisanship.

About everything.

I apologize for writing my opinions in a comments section. I am sure the fact that someone somewhere on the Internet disagrees with you must be infuriating.

readering said...

You have too much patience for comments.

Lurker21 said...

I wouldn't say a "dark side." Trump has a wild, uncontrolled, or at least undisciplined side. Maybe everybody has a dark side, Trump included, but he seems to me to have less of one than most people in politics. It's not that he broods and schemes, but that he doesn't discipline himself or take good advice.
_

McCain would not have won against Clinton. No Republican could have won in 2008. Clinton was indeed a weaker candidate than Obama, but McCain probably couldn't have beaten her under different circumstances. He just didn't have "it" or enough of "it" to win. Romney could possibly have eked out a narrow victory against Clinton, but the country was going to hate him, whether it happened before the election or after. Part of why Trump won in 2016 was his ability to win over people who usually don't vote and people who are only tempted by anti-Establishment candidates and parties. McCain and Romney didn't have much appeal with those groups.

Lurker21 said...

To be fair, Trump wasn't always an easy guy to work with. If you're in the Washington game, you know that people aren't going to vote with you 100% of the time, but you can still work together with them when you have to. Trump didn't quite get that, and neither do some of his fans. I don't have a problem with the fact that Graham wasn't 100% with Trump on everything. 70% or 80% was good enough.