March 13, 2021

"I want to keep wearing a mask after this is over. I can just go and do my thing, and I don’t have to interact with people. It’s liberating."

Said the 16-year-old son of the author of this WaPo column, "Here are the people who love wearing masks."

The author, Petula Dvorak, collects some other pro-mask statements:

“I love wearing a mask. I want to do this forever. It has helped my social anxiety so much.”...

“Wearing a mask is really letting me be ugly in peace. I love it here.”...

“I like not catching colds, not wearing makeup and not being noticed... So even vaccinated and with herd immunity, I’m still going to be hiding behind it.”...

“Wearing a mask means people can’t see my facial tics, and I love that... I’ve always chewed on my tongue ever since I was a kid... I also have a lot of facial acne that masks hide. Acne so bad that random people I meet on the day-to-day feel the need to comment on it and give me advice, as if I haven’t been to tons of dermatologists. I feel much less self-conscious out in public when I’m wearing a mask”...

“[My tardive dyskinesia] manifests as constant contortions of my mouth and tongue twirling... I was mortified to go out in public.”

From the comments over there:


1. "My brother has autism. He loves wearing a mask. It helps him feel more comfortable when he's out among people. As far as I'm concerned, he can wear his mask everywhere when this is over and double dog dare anyone to say a word to him about it. Because I go everywhere he goes and I'm fierce. Everyone who wants to wear a mask when this is over...go ahead. You are not here to decorate anyone's life."

2. "Oh how I love the mask. It hides the jowls, lip lines, double chin, marionette lines. And I love to play with my eye makeup. It took 10-15 years off my face...."

3. "I thought the article would mention Muslim women who chose to wear the niqab (face cover). When I was in Austria, they were heavily fined if they wore a face covering in public. Now everyone is doing it, and they are free to follow their beliefs."

116 comments:

Jersey Fled said...

My granddaughter likes wearing her mask, but she is 2 years old and it has Minnie Mouse on it.

Robert Marshall said...

Just don't make the rest of us wear masks in order to make this 'normal' for the folks who want to hide.

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

What a time to be alive.

wendybar said...

Stay in your basement then. The rest of us want to live free.

tcrosse said...

The mask makes it easier to stick up gas stations and liquor stores.

todd galle said...

I've noticed while grocery shopping that when masked it is difficult to judge the intentions of other cart pushers in the aisles. I had never realized the amount of information that can be projected just from a face.

m stone said...

People are free to choose. I wouldn't wear a mask.

I miss the facials, emotional expressions, and unobstructed vocals that make interpersonal communication so enjoyable (in most cases).

The mask does seem to follow social distancing, from my experience. Two paired behaviors, oddly.

For the hearing impaired, like myself, I'm at a disadvantage. I read lips.

m

Jamie said...

Just don't make the rest of us wear masks in order to make this 'normal' for the folks who want to hide.

This is the crux. We now live in a society in which causing a minority of people - however tiny a minority - to feel in any way singled out, different in any way that causes (or that they can claim causes) them any discomfort, is unacceptable. No more do we encourage kids to grow stronger by ignoring people who make fun of them - now they gain social power through loud declarations of victimization.

Tucker Carlson had a hell of a point the other night: he observed that the actually powerful are making claims of victimization in order to arrogate even more power, in essence all the power, to themselves. Formerly, the actually powerful were expected to express feelings (if not always actions) of noblesse oblige toward the less powerful or powerless. Now, they remove any expectation that they owe society anything at all by declaring themselves victims. No one expects a victim to give anything to anyone else. Victims receive.

mockturtle said...

LOL! From now on when we see someone wearing a mask, we'll think: "What are they hiding?"

Joe Smith said...

The pandemic has been a boon for ugly people.

Win-win I guess...

mockturtle said...

My daughter got me a mask that says: Jesus, the Way, the Truth, the Life so when I have to wear it I don't mind so much. But I still find masks uncomfortable and they tickle my nose.

traditionalguy said...

That’s why God invented dark glasses and hoodies. The crazy people living in fear need it. The question is why our own government suddenly. wants to reduce us to crazy people living in fear...like ChiCom serfs.

NCMoss said...

This sounds strangely similar to Muslim women in favor of the Burka.

Amadeus 48 said...

Every time I go a bank branch to use an ATM, I stop outside to mask up. So transgressive! And in Chicago, too!

Dillinger and Capone smile.

Original Mike said...

" I had never realized the amount of information that can be projected just from a face."

I don't like talking all that much. I use my face to communicate a lot. It's a shame to lose this important communication channel; one that the human race evolved to use. But if there are people who like it, fine. It (used to be) a free country.

Michael K said...

Anybody wearing a mask while driving probably stole the car.

MayBee said...

3. "I thought the article would mention Muslim women who chose to wear the niqab (face cover). When I was in Austria, they were heavily fined if they wore a face covering in public. Now everyone is doing it, and they are free to follow their beliefs."

I have thought of this several times, how there used to be kind of a push to see the Muslim face and hair coverings as really empowering and sexy. Althouse posted an article, too, by Naomi Wolfe talking about how sexy it is that Orthodox Jewish women cover their hair except in front of their husbands.
So I'm not surprised there is this push now, too.

I think there are a lot of super empowered women who really don't like the life they've created and want to make new rules they "have" to follow so they can jump off the merry-go-round. Maybe men, too.

Amadeus 48 said...

The thing is, I can recognize every single one of my friends when they are masked up. And I can tell if they are smiling.

The eyes tell all.

Original Mike said...

It certainly puts a damper on the surveillance state. Was watching The Minority Report recently. All the advertisements talking to Tom Cruz as he walked around town was scary; realizing we are just about at that ability now.

Freeman Hunt said...

C.S. Lewis wrote a book about a woman who felt liberated by covering her face. Till We Have Faces (1956)

MountainMan said...

We moved from our condo to our house here in GA almost exactly as the face masks started. One of the few pleasures I have had during this whole pandemic mess has been shopping at the Publix grocery just up the road. The store is well-stocked, clean, has a great bakery and deli, but most of all the staff there is super-friendly and helpful, especially the young women who are the cashiers. Only one problem - I have never seen any of them, only their eyes and face masks. I look forward to the day when the masks come off. I have missed seeing smiles. And I have regretted they cannot see mine in return.

tcrosse said...

In Japan they have transparent face masks, but it looks like they vent your breath up into your nose and eyes. Luckily for them, they don't eat much Mexican food.

wildswan said...

A new insult forms: Have you thought of masking up?

wildswan said...

Skits on a woman who comes into bar masked (this is after we are free). Patrons betting on why she masks - burns, acne, three bagger, too beautiful or famous to go out uncovered. Various attempts to get her to voluntarily unmask.

Lurker21 said...

“Wearing a mask is really letting me be ugly in peace. I love it here.”...

Amen. You're preaching to the choir.

Skits on a woman who comes into bar masked (this is after we are free).

Probably not wanting to get hit on by the kind of mooks who hang out in bars.

Ann Althouse said...

Facial privacy.

Emotional privacy.

Mikey NTH said...

Those who want to indulge in their panic porn can do so, just leave me out of your neurosis thank you very much.

Mark said...

So, is this kid's alienation due to his upbringing? To Paula Dvorak's mothering?

I've never read anything from her that wasn't obnoxious and hateful.

Narr said...

IDK. I can't really argue with any of the points made already. It would certainly be nice to see the pretty gals full-face again.

We still have mask and distancing rules here, and most people go along, including me. I'll probably mask up on a tactical basis-- how much do I want to interact where I'm going?

One idea I'm considering is to make visitors to my home wear a mask in my presence according to the degree of their paranoia about COVID-19. Bedwetters will have to wear masks, whether they have had the vacc or not; those that thought masks were a farce all along can go without. It will be interesting to see who among the vaxed continues to mask.

My own mask policy in other people's spaces will be to wear masks at bedwetter's homes or offices regardless of their or my vacc status.

Narr
I have a little mask stockpile

JAORE said...

"As far as I'm concerned, he can wear his mask everywhere when this is over and double dog dare anyone to say a word to him about it."

Yeah, the people that want the freedom to wear masks or not are JUST the kind of people that are waiting for the chance to gang up on your kid.

The delusions of the left must be a heavy burden with no respite.

Ann Althouse said...

"Oh how I love the mask. It hides the jowls, lip lines, double chin, marionette lines. And I love to play with my eye makeup. It took 10-15 years off my face...."

I think there are a lot of people who have much a better looking upper face than lower face. Tiny lips, bad teeth, weak jawline, jowls, insincere smile — lots of stuff goes wrong in the lower face. These people are getting a big beauty boost from the mask. There are also people who have an unusually great lower face — luscious lips, sculptural jawline, perfect teeth, delightful smile. Put a mask on them and suppress the competition. The process of feeling drawn to faces is different with masks.

Lyssa said...

People are free to do what they want here, but as a person with a hearing impairment, I certainly hope most people I might need to speak to will get over this quickly.

Tom T. said...

Next up: Showing one's unmasked face is oppressive toward women.

Browndog said...

Secret undercover video of Althouse walking Zeus on her hiking trail

Mark said...

It's not liberating. It is dehumanizing.

Browndog said...

Maskless is the new MAGA hat

-Emerald Robinson

Greg The Class Traitor said...

None of these people are wearing masks that are worth a damn

It's "health theater", to go with the TSA's "security theater".

Because a functional mask makes it difficult for you to breathe. It requires more effort to get the air in, and more to get it out, because you have to shove it through filters.

It means a lower oxygen content on your inhales, because some of the air you exhale is trapped in from of your face. Which means headaches if you wear it for more than an hour or so.

If the mask isn't making you miserable, then it's not doing jack shit to protect your health, or the health of others.

"I don't have to wear makeup"? No eye liner? nothing for the parts of your face that are exposed? Nothing for your forehead?

How big IS your mask?

Greg The Class Traitor said...

A week or so ago we were discussing a "Study" that used the "you can only see the eyes, what is the person's emotion?" test, and people's performance on that test.

The test was created to find neuroatypical people, who need the whole face to judge emotion, not just the eyes.

So wearing masks is oppressive to the neuroatypical, bigot!

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

Between Thanksgiving 2019 and February of last year I was writing a new comedy act with a plan to wear a mask because a hidden identity was part of the Dinosaur character’s schtick. True story. I thought the plan was genius, as is my mood generally when working on new projects. It might have been but when everyone was suddenly masked and clubs were closed, well the idea lost steam. So yeah I was ready to don a mask last year and man was a surprised how things turned out.

The Vault Dweller said...

I have noticed the masks can make understanding what some people are saying more difficult. I suspect most businesses will not let their employee wear masks, even if they want to after the fact. Most people won't care about other people wearing masks, but there will side-long glances. Perhaps enough to cause people who who have strong social anxiety to wonder if the benefit of wearing the mask is worth the added cost of the side-long glances.

Greg The Class Traitor said...

Lurker21 said...
Probably not wanting to get hit on by the kind of mooks who hang out in bars.

Then why the hell is she going to a bar?

Seriously. Why in the world do you go out to a crowded, noisy place with overpriced alcohol, if not to interact with the people there?

If you are a better class of person than the rest of the people in that bar, why are you there? Why aren't you at a bar with a better class of people?

Ancient Mariner said...

(comment by Deckie 66)"Read Freeman Hunt's comment below. "'Till we have faces" is a wonderful and powerful book -- and anti-Christians can read it without feeling they are being proselytized, since it is set in pre-Christian times, and the only religious views expressed by characters are pagan.

Lewis was not just a great Christian theologian, and a pretty clever apologist, too -- since this novel is powerfully Christian without ever mentioning the religion or its founder.

Yancey Ward said...

Emerald Robinson is completely correct- maskless faces will become the new MAGA hat. For this reason, I welcome the mask wearers to continue to do so- I will know who to avoid like the plague.

Gahrie said...

Many slaves loved their chains.

madAsHell said...

So.....xe is a woman?

JK Brown said...

You know this is going to turn into a "racist" thing because already there are stores that at least want you to expose your face on entering due to crime danger. There was a story last year of some Black activist calling for that very thing, which, of course, violated the Karan control "No touching your mask" edict.

Gospace said...

Yancey Ward said...
Emerald Robinson is completely correct- maskless faces will become the new MAGA hat. For this reason, I welcome the mask wearers to continue to do so- I will know who to avoid like the plague.


Well, that's been said, now I don't need to add anything else.

KellyM said...

I make it a point to not wear a mask when I'm outside getting some fresh air and exercise. I got the stinkeye from some random Karen yesterday as I was out rollerblading. She rolled by me on her bike about a car lane's width from me. I gave it right back and without a mask my thoughts were quite clear.

Narr said...

The thing that gets me about the Atheism vs Religion debate is how the religious frame the history of faiths and unbelief.

The first thing that Sunday-school history does is ignore or obscure the fact that throughout most of human history to deny the existence of a god or gods was an almost certain death sentence. I know of no instance in ancient, medieval, or early-modern history where atheists and agnostics were anything but victims of the pious and powerful; conversely, I know of no instance in the same time periods in which powerful people made war on or oppressed others in the name of Atheism or Agnosticism.

Also conveniently elided from Sunday-school history is that the most savage contests between Europeans prior to the 20th C were those involving Christianity. Catholic vs Lutheran vs Calvinist, all LOOVE each other now, which makes we wonder if they really understand the stakes the way their spiritual ancestors--good Christians all!-- did.
And even after they exhausted themselves in slaughter, they only slowly and begrudgingly became willing to grant freedom of religion and conscience to those not of their faith.

The USA FF's knew that history, and knew it well. That's why they set up a secular system and made a point of allowing no religious tests for public office. (That voters have their own religious tests is a separate topic.)

Nor was the notorious slave trade an atheist or agnostic arrangement. Christian, Jew, and Muslim all made a killing off of it, at a time when non-believers were still well-advised to keep their thoughts to themselves.

But somehow all this is irrelevant, and many of the pious like to pretend that the 15 and more centuries of backwardness and bloodshed from the time of Constantine onwards, the wars and slave-trading had nothing to do with religion or religious beliefs.

Narr
Musta been them seklar-hoomanists!





Anita said...

About a year ago when people started wearing masks, I told my sister that I feared it would become the new normal. I am deaf in one ear and have always relied on lip reading to understand what people say. Now every public interaction is a struggle.

In a couple recent doctor visits, I explained my problem to my doctors. The first solved the problem by simply yelling at me, which was not helpful or pleasant. The second doctor removed her mask, saying that she has had COVID and both vaccine shots. And when I told her how exhausting the masking is, she responded with sympathy.

John henry said...

You know who else likes masks?

Bank robbers and other criminals

KKK

There's a reason why many states have long had laws against the use of masks in public, with a few exceptions.

John Henry

Big O's Meanings Dictionary said...

dogma - definition

A principle or set of principles laid down by an authority as incontrovertibly true.

The truly principled dogmatists believe that anyone who doesn't follow dogma is actually following the dogma of no dogma.

principle example:

Religious people typically believe that atheists are really religious because they follow the 'dogma' of not believing in gods instead of simply not accepting the dogma that gods exist.

Francisco D said...

As a dirty old man, I can't help but notice that ugly women with hot bodies benefit from masks.

It makes grocery shopping more interesting.

Bob Smith said...

Now do you understand the burka?

n.n said...

Your choice, of course, but be wary that your mask does not evolve as a viral concentrator, petri dish, and mass spreader.

Postoperative wound infections and surgical face masks: a controlled study

Effectiveness of Adding a Mask Recommendation to Other Public Health Measures to Prevent SARS-CoV-2 Infection in Danish Mask Wearers

Physical interventions to interrupt or reduce the spread of respiratory viruses

Unless it's an N95 design or similar, and following strict protocol, your chances of infection, with a mask, outside of a greenhouse environment, are, at best, comparable to flipping a coin, and progressively worse. Don't forget the goggles. The eyes are window to viral and social contagion. Oh, wash your hands, and follow other best hygienic practices, to mitigate fecal transmission, the asymptomatic transmission mode of SARS-CoV-2 (HIV, too, but washing you hands won't help).

Charlie Currie said...

So when the mandate to wear a mask is lifted, what becomes of all the laws that prohibit the wearing of masks in certain public and business spaces?

Do they get repealed, ignored or enforced?

This will be interesting.

walter said...

"I got the stinkeye from some random Karen yesterday"
All the more powerful when masked.

n.n said...

The thing that gets me about the Atheism vs Religion debate is how the religious frame the history of faiths and unbelief.

Religious or moral philosophy. Its relativistic sibling "ethics". Its politically congruent cousin "law". A God, gods, or mortal gods and goddesses. And, of course, traditions for a holistic conception.

Other than the theistic Islamic branch, more final solutions, wicked solutions, and denial of human rights have... do occur with ostensibly "secular" religions (e.g Pro-Choice) and motives, progressive (i.e. monotonic) and liberal (i.e. divergent) ideologies, especially when conjoined with the Twilight (i.e. conflation of logical domains) and atheist faiths to social justify/rationalize their ambitions.

walter said...

I watched a collegiate level basketball coach at a game wearing one of those clear masks. She lifted it almost every time she shouted to her players.
Btw, definitely nothing wrong with her lower face....

Sebastian said...

Local gym: majority without masks, some distancing observed but in-your-face racket sports and basketball being committed.

Future battle will be between progs trying to enforce mask etiquette--against stigma you know, a matter of social justice-- and ordinary people who don't want to be bothered or prefer to see and be seen.

Blair said...

This sounds like a Gary Numan song waiting to be written...

Here in my mask
I feel safest of all
I can lock up my jaw
It's the only way to live
In masks...

Leland said...

I have no problem with people who like a mask. I have a problem with those that demand we follow their mask religion. Imagine if we demanded everyone wear shorts because others love to wear them.

Jeff said...

I don't get it. What's the fun in being ugly if you don't impose it on other people?

FullMoon said...

Standard procedure for Chinese around here to mask up during cold or flu season. Never paid much attention before but assumed they already had a cold and didn't want to spread it.

Browndog said...

Bob Smith said...

Now do you understand the burka?


No, they don't. Never will. Understanding requires thinking, and the first objective in propaganda is to eliminate thinking.

mockturtle said...

Never paid much attention before but assumed they already had a cold and didn't want to spread it.

That's been the case in Japan well before COVID. Frankly, if one must go out in public with a cold, it's only considerate to contain it in a mask.

mockturtle said...

n.n., you are right. After all, Communism is an atheist religion and it gives no quarter to individual rights and freedoms.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

I'm pro mask. Even tho I too am sick of the mask. I have NOT suffered the usual seasonal cold or flu... or covid. I am susceptible to upper respiratory junk. I'm cool avoiding gross hippy dribble.

If masks are all it takes to return to normal in every other way - I'm OK with masks. I realize that my opinion will be unpopular. I'll be the dork in the mask. I don't require others to do so.

Greg The Class Traitor said...

Narr said...
The first thing that Sunday-school history does is ignore or obscure the fact that throughout most of human history to deny the existence of a god or gods was an almost certain death sentence. I know of no instance in ancient, medieval, or early-modern history where atheists and agnostics were anything but victims of the pious and powerful;

Oh, bullshit. Ancient Greeks and Romans GAVE us the atheists and agnostics.

Nor was the notorious slave trade an atheist or agnostic arrangement. Christian, Jew, and Muslim all made a killing off of it, at a time when non-believers were still well-advised to keep their thoughts to themselves.

Every culture had slaves. Until the Christian anti-slavery movement started pushing against it.

As for death tolls? Nazis and Communists were both non-Christian. Nazis impulses were non-religious. French Revolution? Anti-religious. Ghengis Khan? Pure lust for power, no religious elements

Their death tolls exceed anything the Christians pulled off, by at least an order of magnitude.

And the KGB was far more murderous than teh Inquisition ever was.

Pull your head out of your ass, loser.

I say all this as a confirmed agnostic. I don't believe in God. But the God believers are far more tolerant, and far less murderous, than the religious fruitcakes of the Left, who don't have a God, but still have all the religious faith

walter said...

Blair,
Remy would do that justice.
I've considered re-framing the Thompson Twins chorus to "Masks Masks Masks Yeah."

Browndog said...

n.n., you are right. After all, Communism is an atheist religion and it gives no quarter to individual rights and freedoms.

The Russian Soviets spent 80 years trying to eliminate Christianity. Russia today, is more of a Christian nation than the United States.

Fact.

Jim at said...

Fine. Wear your damn mask. Wear six of them. I don't care.

But stop forcing the rest of us to do the same.

Joe Smith said...

"I think there are a lot of people who have much a better looking upper face than lower face...There are also people who have an unusually great lower face..."

I have both.

It's the cross that I bear...

ALP said...

Ann said: "I think there are a lot of people who have much a better looking upper face than lower face. Tiny lips, bad teeth, weak jawline, jowls, insincere smile — lots of stuff goes wrong in the lower face."

Ann...are you STALKNG ME??? Add acne scars and 'resting bitch face' - yep, I would prefer a nice patterned fabric over this list of horrors!

daskol said...

This is where I was early in the lockdowns, which ended the personal torment of my business travel and the relentless conference/event small-talk circuit I was on. But that was a guilty thought. As pleasant as it’s been to be relieved of the burdensome aspects of leaving the home and going places and meeting people and fucking disgusting hotel bathrooms and linens, we should leave the OCD germaphobic shut-in stuff to the OCD germaphobe shut-in types. We’re better at it, and less susceptible to the seductive aspects of it. Anyway I worked hard for many years to overcome social and other anxieties such that being out and about and meeting strangers all day was sort of bearable, but I’m out of practice again. My least well adjusted yet not quite fully clinical friend who more or less hadn’t left the house for a few years prior to COVID is unashamedly thrilled that she no longer has to contend with social expectations in her community, and is actually now anxious about what happens when all restrictions are lifted.

daskol said...

My youngest in kindergarten prefers remote school because “at least I can see my friends’ faces.”

daskol said...

Unless you play live poker, this public mask-love thing should not be indulged. It’s an example of how the therapeutic culture actually undermines therapeutically beneficial behaviors—you want to tell people it’s ok to keep the mask on, because feelings, but it really isn’t. Not even if you’re autistic or horribly disfigured or ugly most of the time.

mockturtle said...

Not long ago they [you know, 'they'] were warning us not to use antibacterial soaps because they can result in antibiotic resistant bacteria. Now we're using ethyl alcohol on our hands. I also wonder what our immune systems will be like after sheltering them for so long.

tim maguire said...

Some mentally ill are more comfortable wearing a mask. Good for them that masks exist then, I suppose. But is that a healthy response? Or just a bandaid?

Browndog said...

Jim at said...

Fine. Wear your damn mask. Wear six of them. I don't care.

But stop forcing the rest of us to do the same.


They cut you off at the pass-

Knowing you can't leave it to individual discretion, knowing they spent 4 decades screaming "my body, my choice!"...

They came up with "My mask doesn't protect me, it protects you!"

Oh. the virus suddenly, without warning, isn't much of a threat to the young and healthy?

Got you covered!

YOUR MASK DOESN'T PROTECT ME, IT PROTECTS MY GRANDMA!

all the sheep say.......science!!

Narr said...

Greg, please. Self-proclaimed A/atheists, A/agnostics and C/cynics existed in the ancient world as marginal figures without access to the levers of power. No conqueror proclaimed philosophical and religious doubt the official ideology and proceeded to persecute believers per se.

The Egyptians and Romans both made gods of their rulers, and Christians suffered persecution at times because they were considered Atheists in their (highly principled and admirable) refusal to worship the idols of the majority.

The dominance of the church of Rome is one long tale of heretic and infidel hunts, and those terms were flexible enough to shut most people up most of the time. (Genghis was not a Westerner, you know.)

The Religious Wars of say, 1450 - 1650 left portions of the continent devastated in a way that wasn't matched until the 20th C. The secular and political wars that succeeded them were bad enough, but even Bonaparte's Grand Tours were not fought with the no-quarter, scorched-earth, kill-em-all gusto that faith can supply. (He died a good son of the church, too.)

My remarks were carefully confined to the pre-modern periods (Western) I mentioned. And I did not blame slavery or the slave trade on religion--I merely observed the fact that both institutions persisted without notable diminution throughout the whole period of Official Religions.

That abolition as a movement arose in a Christian context and from the faith of individuals is true. But it took literally centuries to accomplish slavery abolition against the opposition of the atheists and agnostics . . . sorry the opposition or indifference of the pious elites of the day.

At the same time, and this would make an interesting comparative study, that other great liberation story--almost completely unknown to Americans--was the legal equality (or as I call it, the de-sacralization) of Jews. The modern world is unimaginable without that, and it too was opposed and resented by the atheists and agnostics . . . sorry the pious elites of the day.

That Jews in America, and the 30k or so Catholics here about 1776, never suffered the stupid and bigoted systemic religious oppression of Old Regime Europe is a great example of secularist principles in action.

I want to listen to the opera right now, but will return to the other things you mention--
despite the fact that you read into my remarks some attachment to political obscurantism and bigotry, and Leftism (of all things!) that doesn't exist.

Narr
Yours in loserness

Inga said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Inga said...


The flu season has been extraordinarily mild and that can be contributed to mask wearing. I’ll be receiving my second Covid vaccine on the 28th and look forward to getting together with my family who have been vaccinated. My two youngest grandsons usually get one virus after during the winter, but this past year they haven’t been sick once. Since I’m a hugger and a kisser of grandkids, I’ve gotten the flu from my little grandkids more than once. I have a pulmonary issue that makes it precarious to get a URI.

I suspect kids will be required to wear masks in school for quite sometime yet. The lower amount of virus spreading isn’t lost on anyone paying attention. I’m considering wearing a mask indoors during the winter months when my little virus vectors are present, I miss my grandkids during this time of separation but I haven’t missed my yearly bout with a URI. I haven’t made up my mind yet, but if I see runny noses on my two little grandsons, the mask is going on.

Original Mike said...

"The flu season has been extraordinarily mild and that can be contributed to mask wearing."

Or to a lot of flu being called covid.

Tinderbox said...

Now that the pandemic threat is disappearing, how about we agree to go back to letting everyone do what they want to do. Unless this is no longer even nominally a "free country".

Browndog said...

Inga said...

I...I...I...

Browndog said...

Tinderbox said...

Now that the pandemic threat is disappearing, how about we agree to go back to letting everyone do what they want to do. Unless this is no longer even nominally a "free country".


You want a free country?

Lose the "we". Make your own choices.

Narr said...

This has gone far afield from the tags, but I will come back to the Religion: Yummy or Yucky? debate after a few scattershot comments--maybe if the Prof opens a cafe later, or I can hitch on to a better-fitted thread.

I thought about Vidal's boyo Julian, but have forgotten the details.

The Soviets tried to eradicate Christianity by the traditional Russian method of paying the hierarchs to keep their flocks docile during oppression and vengeful during wartime. Nasty old Red O'Hair and her entourage wrote a scathing review and critique of the Soviet Museum of Scientific Atheism (I think it was) in her rag back in the early or mid-80s . . . I need to look that up.

I'm an outsider myself, but again, my remarks were focused mainly on the specifically Western Christian (in Toynbee's definition) matrix of slavery and abolition. The Soviets did a lot of things that had roots in Russian cultural practices and prejudices, including their arrangement with Islamic community leaders to leave them to beating their wives and buggering their nephews on the downlow as long as they waved Red flags and cheered on the holy days.

A very interesting blogsite about A/atheism and Belief is that of my boyhood friend David S. Chumney, Debunking Christianity. I don't follow it closely, but he did have an extensive bibliography of critique of faith there a while back.

Narr
YMMV

sterlingblue said...

Masks in public are here forever, apart from perhaps a brief reprieve this summer.

The Party loves masks and telling other people to wear masks. It's that simple.

Greg The Class Traitor said...

Narr continues being a lying sack of shit...
Greg, please. Self-proclaimed A/atheists, A/agnostics and C/cynics existed in the ancient world as marginal figures without access to the levers of power.

Quite a comedown from "throughout most of human history to deny the existence of a god or gods was an almost certain death sentence." So I see that story is "no longer operative"

The Egyptians and Romans both made gods of their rulers

Bzzt. The Roman Republic did not. The Roman Emperors only got elevated to Godhood after they died, if the Senate decided to do so.

The Egyptians had a habit of taking statues of old rulers, carving out hte name, and putting in the name of the current ruler.

All that was politics, on the order of Der Feurer or whichever thug is currently ruling a country afflicted with Communism.

"You don't show the thuggish rule proper obeisance, you get killed." That's not about religion, and only a liar or a moron would claim it is.

So, first you wrote: "throughout most of human history." ... "I know of no instance in ancient, medieval, or early-modern history"

Now you write "(Genghis was not a Westerner, you know.)". Yes, I know. But I'm not such an ignorant bigot as to think that "Western history" is the only history.

even Bonaparte's Grand Tours were not fought with the no-quarter, scorched-earth, kill-em-all gusto that faith can supply

Ok, so are you just stupid and ignorant, rather than evil? The Reign of Terror killed more people in a few short years than the Inquisition killed in its entire existence. Then there's the destruction of Lyon, and the massacre in the Vendee.

The French Revolution is more than just Napoleon, moron.

America's 1st Amendment, and ban on a State Religion, was pushed by the religious, who were more interested in their own freedom, than in the right to suppress others

Not a characteristic of modern "atheists"

walter said...

"I suspect kids will be required to wear masks in school for quite sometime yet."
Sure. The least susceptible, the least likely to spread it..and the least likely to properly wear a mask.
Seems legit.

n.n said...

Communism is an atheist religion and it gives no quarter to individual rights and freedoms.

God, gods, and mortal gods and goddesses. Judge a religion, its relativistic sibling "ethics", its politically congruent cousin "law", by its principles, not philosopher(s).

It's not just communism, the state, generally, minorities, specifically. Secular incentives are first and foremost the motive for solutions ranging from bad to wicked. However, my point is somewhat different. Principles establish a guide but are not determinative. Generally, there are people with a religion (i.e. behavioral protocol) who self-moderate, and others whose ambitions are tempered through competing interests. This is why single/central/monopolistic progressions pose an elevated risk.

BUMBLE BEE said...

Joe's gonna kill us off! - https://www.breitbart.com/border/2021/03/13/exclusive-leaked-numbers-show-migrant-got-aways-soar-as-border-apprehensions-hit-15-year-high/

n.n said...

YOUR MASK DOESN'T PROTECT ME, IT PROTECTS MY GRANDMA!

You have to give them credit. They are as nimble as they are ruthless, wicked, even.

n.n said...

Russia today, is more of a Christian nation than the United States.

Fact.


They're striving, certainly. Always striving, which is good.

RobinGoodfellow said...

Blogger m stone said...

For the hearing impaired, like myself, I'm at a disadvantage. I read lips.


I have this same issue. I’m not deaf, but in situations with loud background noise I look at lips for a little help when listening to someone talk.

Browndog said...

n.n said...

They're striving,..


Not striving.

Are.

America is striving.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

We do not live in a free country.

We live in a corrupt leftist tyranny.

Antifa can do what they want. The president is a crook. The president is a sack of potatoes run by others. The FBI are liars all the way to the top.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

LOL - yeah - the left care about our grandparents. Gold standard.

stevew said...

I hate the mask, it is dehumanizing and unpersons the wearer. Masks are the antithesis of community and social engagement.

mikee said...

Harrison Bergeron, call Diana Moon Glompers immediately. Your new handicap appliances have arrived from the manufacturer, and are ready to install. And no, this is not a request.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

To be clear - I'm not for mandatory mask wearing. Unless it's a grocery store, or other private business and the store owner wants it that way to protect his/her employees. I'm totally against the government mandating mask wearing.

I myself will wear a mask, for now.. along with large dark glasses, and a hat. In leftwing jerk-ville - it works.

Browndog said...

Talk to me about the origins of the virus, what it is, how it carries, who and what it effects.

Until then, it's witch craft and totalitarianism.

Because, you know, you have no desire to
answer the questions above.

Doug said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Doug said...

n.n said...
YOUR MASK DOESN'T PROTECT ME, IT PROTECTS MY GRANDMA!


Tell you what ... YOU protect your grandma and leave me out of it.

daskol said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
daskol said...

I think there are a lot of people who have much a better looking upper face than lower face. Tiny lips, bad teeth, weak jawline, jowls, insincere smile — lots of stuff goes wrong in the lower face.

This was a premise for the punch-line of a dimly remembered Loony Tunes episode. I could quickly search it up unless it's one of the banned ones, but I'm going to try casting memory back 40 years or so: I think it's Daffy Duck is in Arabia, in a nicely appointed tent, somehow finds himself thrown into a marriage to some chieftain's daughter, leaving our duck aghast.She is summoned in, veiled below the eyes, which are stunning. daffy relents, and then things get a bit hairy when she takes off the mask.

that has to be one of the banned episodes.

daskol said...

might have been Bugs Bunny. but that was the joke.

I'm Not Sure said...

I tend to ignore people wearing masks. I figure they don't want to interact with me anyway, as my talking is a risk of death for them.

Narr said...

I've been quite specific with my criticism of organized religions in the West. They get the criticism because they had the power and influence, and as Crack might say, the doctrine of peace and love. I've also been quite specific in my praise of religious people who will not bend under the pressure of the majority.

That there were periods and places in the ancient world where A and A philosophies were tolerated in elite circles doesn't change the fact that for 1500 years after that it was dangerous to the point of death to question established religions (or be a Jew).
But body counts of course can't measure or balance loss of opportunity, creativity, and knowledge under intellectually repressive conditions.

You seem to think that after ancient times, the tradition of the ruler-thug-priest somehow disappeared thanks to religion or religious people. Charlemagne got the Pope's blessing as well as recognition of the Franks as the New Chosen, and proceeded to mass slaughters of pagans such as the Saxons. We don't know how many died, just as we don't know how many died in most of those epic conflicts. Convince me that Christianity AS PRACTICED for all those centuries didn't support the bigoted and violent thugs-in-charge and I'll grant you a point, body count aside.

The vast majority of the deaths in the period of the great French Revolution and Empire were traditional--war casualties and collateral damage; only a miniscule number of people died anywhere in the whole period on account of their religion. After the first radicalism of the Revolution, Bonaparte's empire left religion alone and exploited it where they could. His pious reactionary enemies tried to put the genie of freedom of thought back in the tube but it wasn't to be. Too many people had seen a better way and as I said, the new approach to life, the universe, and everything is what made the modern world. Why, it only took another century or so for the church of Rome (that's religion, right?) to officially acknowledge a right to question the authority of the church of Rome.

And you say that the FF's wanted religious liberty for themselves more than they wanted to oppress others, as if I argued to the contrary. That's the point: they realized as intelligent and historically clear-eyed men that accepting religious differences and getting on with business were the ways forward, from bitter experience of intolerance.

So, my thesis is that religious tolerance is learned behavior that has NEVER been inherent in religious faith itself, unless one argues that it was always there and somehow always hijacked by bad actors. All those religious massacres and forced conversions and witchhunts were just misunderstandings. It's a theory.

That a 21st C self-described agnostic reacts so screechily and screedily to observations of historical fact about the role of religion in the West between 300 and 1800 roughly, is a
bit of a surprise to me.

That you keep bringing in the bad acts of people I haven't praised just shows me that you have mental boxes and boundaries that restrict your ability to reason.

Narr
You know the difference between Joe McCarthy and medieval witch-hunts? Commie spies actually existed

donald said...

“It's "health theater", to go with the TSA's "security theater".

I fly constantly. I despise the TSA and the thugs and imbeciles that run it. And just for the record anytime you think that George Bush had any redeeming qualities, just remember he is the monster that let this happen.

Bunkypotatohead said...

The Ellen James Society will be making a comeback soon.

The Crack Emcee said...

I am definitely going to keep doing it: life was much better.

EAB said...

To each his own, I’m tired of making adjustments to stop the glasses fogging. And I’m tired of the extra effort to smile with my eyes. It’s speeding up the wrinkles, and I don’t need that help.

Lea S. said...

So many of the people who feel happy about wearing masks have deep insecurities about their looks? Something tells me this is akin to treating agoraphobia by staying happily confined to your house.