From "How to Make Sense of Scents/Can language ever capture the mysterious world of smells?" by Rachel Syme (in The New Yorker)(discussing "Smells: A Cultural History of Odours in Early Modern Times" by Robert Muchembled).
January 29, 2021
"Smell can never truly be understood through science, Muchembled argues, because it is always vulnerable to the whims of popular taste."
"In sixteenth-century France, amid religious moralizing and the pervasive fear of witchcraft, the scent of a woman’s undercarriage, once considered an ambrosial ideal, became synonymous with the occult. The stigma was worse for aging women, who became seen as olfactory ogres; Muchembled quotes the poet Joachim du Bellay’s disgust at an 'old woman older than the world / older yet than squalid filth.' Our own experience confirms that smells are subject not just to major cultural changes but also to minor shifts in context: the same smell that greets you at the door of a cheesemonger has a very different effect when confronted at the door of a porta-potty."
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91 comments:
“Home in 3 days, don’t bathe!”
Is the hardcover scratch and sniff?
If not I ain't buying,
"undercarriage"?
Likewise flavours.
Is undercarriage a euphemism for front hole?
I assume we’re still talking about court packing.
Those four tags on this post are, in a list, just plain gross.
One of my sisters in law can be made to wretch just by mentioning the smell or use of sour milk. Yet she has no trouble eating any sort of cheese - even the really smelly kinds.
And isn't it true that once you have smelled burning marijuana you recognize that smell every day after? Occasionally when cycling a car will pass by and I'll get a whiff, a hint, of that smell. Always makes me smile. Even though it's been years since I would partake of that stuff.
Some time ago you had an article dealing with covid and smell which I commented on extensively. Within the last week I'm happy to report my sense of smell has shifted a little bit further towards normal. But yes it is frustrating to try and describe smells. In my case it isn't only that I lost the sense of smell but that what I did have didn't smell right. Urine smelling like parmesan cheese various other things having a distinct nail polish remover taste. Other commenters on that thread said they couldn't smell very well and what was the big deal. My experience of not being able to smell things well he didn't bother me it's when I couldn't smell things as they were supposed to.
Sniff an in season durian on a hot day in Hanoi and you might not be able to describe the smell, but you will have a very deep understanding of it.
Undercarriage issues? We've got Ziebart for that...or Krown for the people who live in America's hat.
Is he referring to this sort of thing (in part):
Vaginal aliphatic acids
A class of aliphatic acids (volatile fatty acids as a kind of carboxylic acid) was found in female rhesus monkeys that produced six types in the vaginal fluids. The combination of these acids is referred to as "copulins". One of the acids, acetic acid, was found in all of the sampled female's vaginal fluid. Even in humans, one-third of women have all six types of copulins, which increase in quantity before ovulation. Copulins are used to signal ovulation; however, as human ovulation is concealed it is thought that they may be used for reasons other than sexual communication.[44]
Aesthetic pungency that stimulates engagement in the real world.
"Can language ever capture the mysterious world of smells?"
Let's ask Joe Biden.
I had Covid recently. While not losing my sense of smell or taste, I have noticeably lost for now a desire for many food substances I had before. Local wine merchants hardest hit.
My periodic Wuhan Flu Murder rate per 100,000 by state:
USA average is now 131 deaths per 100,000.
30 states are at or below the USA average including the Cheesehead State at 109.
11 states are above the average of 131 but below 172.
These 10 States are at 172 or higher:
AZ 176
CT 197
LA 188
MA 206
MS 200
ND 189
NJ 240 [the champ so far]
NY 222
RI 202
SD 199
hs per 100,000
Meade wins the thread. Talking about “winning ugly”!
Misremembered, so let's just say...
Noel Coward helicoptering to airfield in Southeast Asia.
Noel: Good Lord, what is that smell?
Pilot: Um, that's shit, sir.
Noel: I know it's shit. But what have they done to it?
While growing up, we would get a lot of skunks in the alley behind my home. I was never sprayed, but I smelled them.
The smell of skunk is a bit nostalgic for me now. My wife thinks I'm weird with this, but . . .
"Smells: A Cultural History of Odours in Early Modern Times" by Robert Muchembled
Please, please, please tell me it's a "scratch 'n sniff" book.
Don't bother going to the reading. He just muchembles his way through the book.
It's been said that smell is the most evocative of senses.
The late Poul Anderson, fantasy and sci fi author, remarked about the issue. When reviewing a manuscript, if he didn't find a reference to a smell every third page, he'd go back and put one in.
I've noticed that the new yorker, new republic, and the New york times, love to write about shit. And mensuration. and disgusting smells. a lot.
It sorta like, their writing about open marriage or child sex. Are they obsessed because they like it or because they think they're being "shocking" and "edgy". I vote for the former.
The perfect left-wing movie for new yorkers:
"Cuties" with the kids taking a shit
Leon said...
I couldn't smell things as they were supposed to.
1/29/21, 2:13 PM
Do you mean as you remember them or as they were described to you?
How would you describe a smell to someone that has never smelled anything.
That same issue exists with color. Try describing color (like red or green) to a blind person. Also, due to color blindness, some people "know" a color as something completely different from what you know.
I experience occasional olfactory hallucinations. Not really a problem, but annoying enough that I searched for a cause and found that impressive definition. Also known as phantosmia. Generally burning wood.
FullMoon said...
I experience occasional olfactory hallucinations. Not really a problem, but annoying enough that I searched for a cause and found that impressive definition. Also known as phantosmia. Generally burning wood.
1/29/21, 3:10 PM
Burning wood? If you have these "hallucinations" near restrooms, you might not be hallucinating...
While growing up, we would get a lot of skunks in the alley behind my home. I was never sprayed, but I smelled them.
The smell of skunk is a bit nostalgic for me now. My wife thinks I'm weird with this, but .
---------------------
Here in middle TN with the lengthening days we are starting to get into the "dead skunk in the middle of the road' winter season.
the same smell that greets you at the door of a cheesemonger has a very different effect when confronted at the door of a porta-potty.
No.
Muchembled
What a great name. Searched for the origin and found this wide-ranging (and interesting) discussion: http://languagehat.com/muchembled/
Somebody (I think it was Robertson Davies) pointed out that in the past if you were a servant you were emptying your masters' chamber pots, and the smells involved had much to do with why class and caste divisions were so rigid. George Orwell made a similar point, having to do more with the absence of bathing and washing facilities among the poor.
Does the Scent of a Woman arouse blind men in the Brave New World of the transgendered? And does the scent of gunpowder still arouse the Deplorables? So many questions .
the same smell that greets you at the door of a cheesemonger has a very different effect when confronted at the door of a porta-potty.
-----------------
Japanese say "I'm going to vomit."
Americans say "What died?"
French say "Who's got bread?"
I distinctly remember walking into a little antique shop on M52 between Perry and Owosso and thinking, "This smells like Grandma Cross' kitchen!" I can't describe it to you but there it was - a memory that I didn't even know I had.
Get Smellcheck for your phone.
Then there's scent, which is a parsing of smell. Dogs do it.
Training a dog to track is just training him to stay on the track that you start him out on, ignoring cross tracks and whatever else might interest him.
The dog already uses his nose to find stuff that he wants. You're just training him to use his nose to find stuff that you want.
Wm Koehler, somewhere probably in his tracking book.
I remember walking past a cheese shop in Paris on a summer day and I was immediately put to mind of a nephew's roller hockey locker room in Florida.
A low tide smell oft betides the best fried clams.
“Everybody secretly likes the smell of their own farts” - Erica Jong
In recent years I have noticed a strong similarity between the smell of coffee--which I love and experience everyday--and the first aromas of skunk in the air as you near it driving in the country. I've never experienced full on skunk and I hope I never do, but before it gets too strong it sure smells like when a coffee roaster vents a batch of fresh roasted beans.
I love my coffee, but I sure wish it tasted as good as it smells.
Meade said... “Home in 3 days, don’t bathe!”
"And come with me Josephine in my flying machine, singing UP we go, UP we go ..."
Propaganda influences perception colors reality.
"Can language ever capture the mysterious world of smells?"
Let's ask Joe Biden."
Damn you, Lucid!! This was supposed to be my joke!
I had Covid recently. While not losing my sense of smell or taste, I have noticeably lost for now a desire for many food substances I had before.
Yes, that happened to me too. My palate is significantly diminished. Many foods I used to like don't appeal at all to me any more.
If you put wheels on Nancy Pelosi she'd have a true "undercarriage". But she's of an age where those 16th Century frenchmen might think she was a witch---and one would have to say, "Good Call".
Does anyone here think semen smells like bleach, or like a certain flower that grows in the San Francisco Bay Area?
“Everybody secretly likes the smell of their own farts” - Erica Jong
There used to be a Steakhouse in Des Moines that had the best onion rings. The next day you got to enjoy them again. Seriously, very nice.
I smoked cigarettes as a young teenager like all of my semi delinquent friends. Then I got into sports and quit.
I never really had the urge to start again, even though I tended bar when smoking was allowed (remember?) and had roommates who smoked, but while attending law school in Durham NC I would often pass by the cigarette factories (which are now luxury condos). That smell, which is the smell of a freshly opened pack, is a wonderful and sorely tempting thing. Almost got me.
Science cannot discern origin and expression, and has a biased perception, not limited to assumptions, assertions, secular sauce, and hopes and dreams, thus the "bill of context" that constrains science to a philosophy and practice in a limited frame of reference, observable, reproducible, deducible. Inference is a creative, created knowledge that fills in the missing links with modes of plausible, per chance possible.
Smell is in the nose, mouth, and brain of the beholder, albeit with overlapping and converging sensory and perceptive experiences.
“Does anyone here think semen smells like bleach, or like a certain flower that grows in the San Francisco Bay Area?”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrus_calleryana
@Althouse, I thank you for introducing me to a new adjective: muchembled.
I think I will find it very useful, particularly during the next 4 years.
Snakes have the problem solved. Taste=smell.
Perfume: The Story of a Murderer Paperback – February 13, 2001
by Patrick Suskind (Author), John E. Woods (Translator)
In the slums of eighteenth-century France, the infant Jean-Baptiste Grenouille is born with one sublime gift—an absolute sense of smell. As a boy, he lives to decipher the odors of Paris, and apprentices himself to a prominent perfumer who teaches him the ancient art of mixing precious oils and herbs. But Grenouille’s genius is such that he is not satisfied to stop there, and he becomes obsessed with capturing the smells of objects such as brass doorknobs and fresh-cut wood. Then one day he catches a
TMI
My first high school boyfriend wore a heavy leather motorcycle jacket all the time. He wasn't the love of my life (though a very nice guy), but walking past that smell - not in every leather goods store, but in some of them, for example - triggers absolutely knee-weakening nostalgia in me, going on forty years later.
Or the smell of my children when they were babies - bliss. Or that mysterious mustiness just inside my grandparents' back door, where you could choose whether to go down to the basement or up to the kitchen - in contrast to most things, I can't even describe it in terms of other things it smelled like, but when I happen upon it out in the world, I'm a child in LaCrosse again.
Blogger Skeptical Voter said..."If you put wheels on Nancy Pelosi she'd have a true "undercarriage". But she's of an age where those 16th Century frenchmen might think she was a witch---and one would have to say, "Good Call"."
You had doubts she was a witch? One of her sisters was killed at the beginning of the movie when a house fell on her and the other melted when she came in contact with water near the end of the movie. Do you have to be shown her flying monkeys?
Wow. Sounds like some one was stretching fot a dissertation topic.
The literary history of smell should include film (Smell-o-Vision) and magazines (perfume samples).
"undercarriage"?
Yes, well, I must say being semi-famous, a star, if you will, has it's pluses and minuses. For example, when I go out and muchamble about town, I hear it all the time. They don't even wait. They practically beg me. They lean out their windows, lean from their doorways and coo, "Hey, Meade, come on up and grab me by my undercarriage." And I could. I could do anything. When you're a semi-star, they semi-let you.
But of course I just have to tell them, "Sorry, ladies, but I'm a one undercarriage man these days."
Stench-Odor-Smell-Scent-Aroma
Stench-Odor-Smell-Scent-Aroma
-Bouquet
Bouquet is a good word as well. I guess fragrance is, too.
Bouquet seems strongly associated with wine nowadays as fragrance seems strongly associated with perfume.
Does anyone here think semen smells like bleach, or like a certain flower that grows in the San Francisco Bay Area?
Just stop eating the Tide Pods, Roughcoat... Damn!
White guys around the country want non-white guys to know that Biden is, technically, a "white guy" but he is delusional, does not know who he is, and as much as I have complete contempt for everything poor Camala stands for, at least she is not bat-shit delusional.
Well, maybe she is, but not in the obvious way poor dementia Joe is.
Listen to the absurd little creep talk, as he did today, as if he were not a batshit crazy old guy, about a vaccine rollout which in his mind is as difficult to comprehend as a chess game is for a chimpanzee.
25th AMENDMENT TODAY.
This crazy old loon is beginning to make me feel very very sorry for him.
25th AMENDMENT, RIGHT NOW, if only to be kind to a crazy old man who is scared and terrified at what has been done on his puppet behalf.
JUST LOOK AT HIS CRAZY SELFISH OLD FACE, you are human, you know how to understand what a look like the look that crazy old selfish man has been sporting for the last week means.
“Home in 3 days, don’t bathe!”
Tom Robbins was all about that too.
Ok, since we are in a confessional mood, I had one girlfriend, let’s just say I think of her every time the ski area Sugarbush gets mentioned.
tim that wasn't natural
Can't believe how well this correlates with Sniffing Joe.
But there it is.
Smells like fish, tastes like chicken.
Obviously, for women, the best term is tang.
Covid has diminished my sense of smell. To what extent, I do not know. When a smelly passenger gets in my minivan, marijuana for instance, I can smell it right away.
I have to be extra diligent that I might not be smelling something a happy lyft texting passenger would.
Like some kid this morning, first passenger around 4:30 am. Comes in asking me if i can do him a favor and drop his buddy off first, I said sure, but his smell of marijuana bothers me enough to alert him the two stop feature on the lyft app. He says he didn't have enough money to cover it. After I drop off his buddy and start following the app directions again he says, "hey boss, could you do me a favor and stop at MacDonald's, I'm really hungry, I said, ok. However, when I pull over the front for him to go in, he says, "no, they are not letting people because of covid." I got to drive thru. I'm so pissed off and I drive pass the ordering device, i have to back up after he alerts me. He orders over $10 worth of food. A homeless man approaches us while waiting for the food and starts a conversating with the kid. meanwhile the app is telling me i have a passenger in the q. After he gets his food and doesn't stop talking, I said "I have to go man." And so I start driving to what I believe is going to be his final stop. No sir, I was wrong. This kid has the gonads to ask me to stop at a bodega already near his final stop. I said "this is going to be the last stop dude". In an annoyed tone he says "are you going to leave me out here to get shot"? I don't turn around to address him. I just said, "that's none of my business". he repeats the same question, about me causing him to get shot, and when I don't answer, he gets out and says "If that's hows going to be, I'm going to report you." He gets out, I close the door and pull off near by to report him myself. Would you believe the kid comes back, after about a minute, and startles me with a knock on the passenger window while i write to ask me, please boss take me home I'm just a few blocks right there" pointing. I said no and drove off.
it's possible if he didn't smell of marijuana, I would been more accommodating, since it was really cold this morning.
Ah well smells; I fell hard for a young lady in my freshman year in college. Her perfume was Estee Lauder Youth Dew. Long since married for a long time to someone else (after 55 years still goiing strong). But a whiff of "Youth Dew: will snap my head around.
And my late Aunt wore White Shoulders---and that perfume gets my attention even though she's been dead for20 years.
But Pelosi or AOC? Brings to mind John D. Loudermilk's "Dead Skunk In The Middle of The Road"--not that AOC or Pelosi would ever have anything to do with "the middle of the road".
Speaking of squalid old undercarriage, I’ve resolved not to think of Hillary Clinton anymore.
“Home in 3 days, don’t bathe!”
Tom Robbins was all about that too.
So THAT’s why Susan Sarandon told him to hit the road! Just kiddin’...
I once worked in a rubber plant that made tires. Natural rubber is smoked to preserve it. It smells like bacon. Because I knew it wasn't bacon, it was a nauseating smell. I had a dog whose pee smelled like grape juice. Also disgusting. The body odor of someone who smokes menthol cigarettes and needs a bath, smells like a cedar tree. Finally, when I was younger, my semen did smell like chlorine bleach.
Tim in Vermont- "Ok, since we are in a confessional mood, I had one girlfriend, let’s just say I think of her every time the ski area Sugarbush gets mentioned."
Oh brother, I hear that. Did she have a tail? It's a Canadian thing.
Meade is back. This ain't no Meadepod posting here today.
Isn't this the way it always is? Love/hate. Sometimes you just got's to take a break.
And then...the magnets...the Yin/Yang... is irresistible. The lesson is humility. That's what we teach each other. Totally destroys the whole idea of cruel neutrality. No one has that. So many lessons to be learned at the end.
I lost my sense of smell & taste from a head injury sustained from a car accident in my late teens. I could not taste or smell the complexity of foods and drinks. Coffee, which had been and remains my drink of choice, I could only taste & smell the burn of roasting. I couldn’t smell or taste the fermentation of soy sauce or fish sauce, only the saltiness. I regained my senses gradually over the course of a year, and things started to smell and taste as I remembered them.
In 16th Century France, I believe no one ever bathed at all - no one could have smelled good.
“Undercarriage.”
Jeez.
It’s smelly in here... maybe a little too smelly...
A ripe durian on a hot day in Hanoi or Saigon. That’s some smelly putrid shit.
Also that gal who yells, “One dolla; make you holla!”
- Krumhorn
One very cold winter Sunday, I let my high school girlfriend wear my fur-lined leather gloves at church. The scent of her hand lotion in those gloves lingered for weeks and I’ll never ever forget it. Of course, I looked like a perve constantly sniffing my gloves.
In retrospect, she was the love of my life.
- Krumhorn
mccullough said...
Stench-Odor-Smell-Scent-Aroma
tcrosse said...
Stench-Odor-Smell-Scent-Aroma
-Bouquet
Meade says...
Stench-Odor-Smell-Scent-Aroma-Bouquet
-Nosegay
which brings us back to... Stench
So, we finally learn why attempts to introduce Smell-O-Vision in movie theaters have never been successful?
Or will something like this become (virtual) reality again, should (visual and perpahs audio) VR ever actually become commercial entertainment?
Smells trigger the strongest connections to emotion and memories, or so I have read. Seems true for me.
The smell of homemade cherry or apple pie triggers pleasant memories of both of my two beloved grandmothers. Both now long gone.
My sense of smell declined sharply about 15-20 years ago, and I read later that a particular cold medication containing zinc could — allegedly — cause some loss of sense of smell. I did use that for a while around that time. [insert shrugging guy emoji here]
“ambrosial ideal” ?? “olfactory ogres” ??
So precious. So clever. So “how clever a wordsmith am I?” gag
The smell of skunk is a bit nostalgic for me now.
I was in a road-band back in the 80s that spent a lot of time driving through rural America. Our drummer had spent summers on his uncles farm, so he taught us to be "manure connoisseurs*" To this day can still differentiate. Turkey smells disturbingly sharp, but on the other hand, there is nothing more pleasing that the sweet smell of pig shit.
*the Michael Polanyi definition of connoisseurs
- See Personal Knowledge: Towards a Post-critical Philosophy
"Also that gal who yells, “One dolla; make you holla!”
I ruve rou! No Shit!!
Caligula- "Smell-O-Vision in movie theaters have never been successful?"
I remember those! Went to one in NYC. The magic of movies is that our imagination creates the believability of the illusion. Smell-o-vision detracted from the illusion. Worth a try, though.
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