December 23, 2020

Credit/blame for saying the right/wrong number.

163 comments:

rhhardin said...

Outrage and disgust are the standard plays at the moment. I don't know who's still listening.

rhhardin said...

I'd propose $2000 for black people and $600 for white people. Out-virtue that.

David Begley said...

That bill with all the pork and foreign aid symbolizes what is wrong with Washington. America hates Congress.

MayBee said...

David Begley- I totally agree.

stevew said...

Trump, and Rand Paul, says there's too much pork in that bill. Too much for foreign entities. Too much for folks that are not burdened or hurt by the pandemic policies. Take it all back and increase the amount that will go to individuals that are truly hurting from the effects of the pandemic panic policies. Nancy tries to turn that into a bad thing, but as usual she is a lying sack of shit. Loathsome she is.

Ann Althouse said...

Comments need to be responsive to the post. Go to the last café if you want to talk about something else. This rule is especially important if you're writing the FIRST comment on a post and if you write something very long. (Don't respond to this comment. I am only addressing a deletion that already happened.)

Kevin said...

Marianne is confused.

The Democrats weren’t there to negotiate for the American people.

Mark said...

If Trump actually cared about this he would have spent his political capital on this.

Instead he has been spending it courting House members to resurrect the dead Kraken.

Its smart for his base to appear to have fought for this, though.

Temujin said...

These people are not just a disgrace, they are an insult to every hard working, tax paying, struggling American who has had their country turned upside down over the past year- all through Democratic Party operatives and an unwelcome virus from China.

After inciting, applauding, and otherwise encouraging riots and the destruction of major cities from coast to coast, they insisted on shutting down all commerce going into the election for...whatever reason other than to kill the once great economy and to try to win the election. Placing party over their citizenry, they have spent months beating us over the heads to close our businesses, or run them at 20% and be placated with that. Thousands cannot feed their families. Their entire lives, dreams, and bank accounts- gone. Schools are closed. People are without hope. They see riots approved. Destruction approved. Being a hardworking citizen disapproved. Then 75 million watch an election get jerked around so badly that no one outside of CNN and the NY Times think this was on the up and up.

We've watched as our country has been literally turned upside down and destroyed. And now Nancy Pelosi and her friends decide it's a good time to hold a stimulus bill hostage, hold it out for months, then after the election, pack the bill with so much pork it cannot even be read by Muslims and Jews. It's filled with millions/billions for other countries and ridiculous causes. And for the people? $600. There. Suck on that- peasants.

Oh wait...here...we've destroyed your lives, but we'll give you a one time bonus of $2000. Now, go away and shut up. We're still giving more to Pakistan for gender reassignment, but that's just because we're trying to save the world in the same way we saved America over this past decade. They should cut out everything that does not explicitly work to help those here in the US hurt by this shutdown. Simple and clean. All Pork should be cut out. This should be a kosher or halal bill.

Tar and Feathers are too soft for these people. Trump was right. The swamp needs to be drained. But not one of us realized just how much they hated their own citizens. They despise us. Our leaders.

From where I stand, it's time to clean out the entire house. Starting with Nancy and Chuck. Tomatoes and eggs for them, every time they stand in front of a mic. Nancy should be hit with a dozen tomatoes and eggs the next time she shows up anywhere.

Kevin said...

If Trump actually cared about this he would have spent his political capital on this.

He did.

That was before the election.

Ron Winkleheimer said...

Why don't they just give everyone $100,000? It would speed up the destruction of the economy and wipe out any remaining small businesses, which seems to be the goal. Oh, and as an added bonus it slap in the face to people who stay out of debt and save money. The chumps.

wendybar said...

We are most mad at the pork they filled up the omnibus bill with, whilst we are losing our businesses, homes and jobs daily. They never cared about us, only their own power...so they need payoffs to their cronies and lobbyists who keep them rich with bribes.....

J. Farmer said...

It's good politics to bring up the pork as contrast to the inadequacy of the direct payments. In reality, the pork spending is chump change. The real problem is the inadequacy of support it provides directly to Americans. $600 is a fucking slap to the face. The big delay over aid to state and municipal governments came down to a difference of $200 billion. That was mostly red state vs. blue state bullshit. Another no-brainer is to extend the Fed's Municipal Liquidity Facility, scheduled to expire at the end of the year.

lgv said...

Change the number to $2000. Keep the number $900B. Now, delete the $1400 pp from somewhere else. That is whole point of Trump veto.

Hidden in the thousands of pages that no one has read is the most pathetic, corrupt, and wasteful dispersion of money ever seen. Yes, that is saying a lot. The devil is in the details, but the details are never discussed in the swamp.

jim said...

Agree that $600 is a pittance for those who need it. It will be bizarre getting whatever when I don't remotely need it.

Trump's point is to put more cash in the pockets of his marks, on the theory that if they don't NEED it some percentage will pass it on to the "campaign fund", and Don can get out from under DB.

Browndog said...

David Begley said...

That bill with all the pork and foreign aid symbolizes what is wrong with Washington. America hates Congress.


Thing is, it's not foreign aid. It's direct funding to Soros affiliated NGO's.

J. Farmer said...

@wendybar:

We are most mad at the pork they filled up the omnibus bill with, whilst we are losing our businesses, homes and jobs daily.

That is not what should you make you the most mad. The pork spending is a fraction of the money. It is mostly going to things like the Payroll Protection Program, unemployment benefits, and direct payments. If those numbers are inadequate, and I believe they are, it's not because of pork spending.

exhelodrvr1 said...

The Democratic establishment cares nothing for the people. Republican establishment only slightly better.

Leland said...

I've already accepted the next 2 years are out of my control. I'll spend my time seeking those wanting to enter a primary and pushing them. Otherwise, the uni-party will do whatever wants. And yeah, it has never mattered in the past what a lame-duck President wants. Pelosi is just using that remark for the pretense that Trump is a pro-stimulus big spender (which he sort of is). The bill is bad, but it will get passed anyway, and if not signed, then passed by veto override.

MayBee said...

Oh, and as an added bonus it slap in the face to people who stay out of debt and save money. The chumps.

The biggest slap on the face is people with legitimate businesses who have been told they can't operate. And the people who work for them.

Ron Winkleheimer said...

The World Economic Forum says that by 2030 you will own nothing. Oh, and you will be happy. The thing is, they also say that you will be renting everything, so its not socialism, apparently. Somebody owns it, just not you. Which is great for the people in charge because people who own stuff have something to lose. You know who else didn't own anything, they just rented it? Peasants. Serfs. Vassals.

peasants (plural noun)
a poor farmer of low social status who owns or rents a small piece of land for cultivation (chiefly in historical use or with reference to subsistence farming in poorer countries).

serfs (plural noun)
an agricultural laborer bound under the feudal system to work on his lord's estate.
synonyms:
bondsman · slave · servant · menial · villein · thrall · helot · ceorl · vassal · liegeman

vassal
[ˈvasəl]
NOUN
historical
a holder of land by feudal tenure on conditions of homage and allegiance.
synonyms:
villein · liege · liegeman · man · bondsman · vavasour · serf · helot · slave · thrall · subject

Theoretically, obligations flow in two directions in a feudal system, with the lord owing protection to his vassals while they owed him a portion of the food they produced and military service as needed. But, since the peasants had no effective way to enforce their rights, their lord could pretty much treat them as he pleased. Occasionally, when conditions got really bad, or some wacky monk started talking smack about the Catholic church, peasants rebelled, but they were usually put down quickly and brutally.

Browndog said...

It's too bad it wasn't until after he got the boot from office that Trump figured out a statement in front of a camera at the White House is a million times more effective than twitter.

J. Farmer said...

@Igv:

Change the number to $2000. Keep the number $900B. Now, delete the $1400 pp from somewhere else. That is whole point of Trump veto.

Individual people are not the only ones with financial obligations. Direct cash payments would not provide sufficient support to small businesses.

Fernandinande said...

Here's a picture of a Kennedy thinking about Pelosi's boobs.

Left Bank of the Charles said...

Donald wants to play Santa and Nancy has happily signed on as Mrs. Santa, but will Mitch be the Grinch Who Stole Christmas? Mitch certainly looks the part.

Breezy said...

I’m angry that Congress persists in these omnibus spending bills to begin with. Paul Ryan was supposed to stop this mechanism and he failed to do so. There should be 12 (I believe) separate bills to fund the govt. The one omnibus gives them ability to hide ginormous waste and hold the whole govt hostage. No one reads the thing!!

MayBee said...

And I am mad that my state never got it's UI act together so when our business was shut down we didn't get the UI we were promised. And our Governor feels free to just shut down businesses still.

narciso said...

The democrats wanted 15 billion for movie studios money for newspapers, not for everyday americans

J. Farmer said...

@Ron Winkleheimer:

But, since the peasants had no effective way to enforce their rights, their lord could pretty much treat them as he pleased.

True. The peasant couldn't call the cops and have the guy thrown in jail for assault. Luckily, we can. Even granting the premise that we all became renters, why would that subject us to brutality by landlords?

Left Bank of the Charles said...

The responsibility of the first commenter. It’s much like being seated in an exit row. Don’t open the exit door unless directed by the crew.

narciso said...

The shutdown and the riots were designed to crush main street, while make big tech oligarchs.

sterlingblue said...

I would personally pay $2000 to never have to see or hear from Pelosi as Speaker ever again.

Francisco D said...

The WuFlu relief bill is forcing grandchildren to give money to their grandparents.

Browndog said...

This seems important:

2020 Federal Tax Collections

We've gone from the highest tax collection in history due to the strongest economy in history to...China funding the federal government in a matter of months.

I'm Full of Soup said...

It's amazing that in my area, suburban Philly, there are 3 newish far left woman Congress critters and not a one spoke up re this bill to express any outrage that a measly $600 would be given to individuals. Not a one spoke up about the waste and boondggles in this bill. Not a one spoke up about a 5,600 page bill that must have been in production for months.

Would someone in the media ask who wrote this bill, who exactly authored al the pieces and why it is business as usual for even the 3 newish far let woman Congress critters? And btw, one of them, Scanlan, send out a self-congratulatory email before Trump made a stink re the measly $600. How come Biden didn't speak up?

Achilles said...

Mark said...

If Trump actually cared about this he would have spent his political capital on this.

Instead he has been spending it courting House members to resurrect the dead Kraken.

Its smart for his base to appear to have fought for this, though.


If you got your information from a broader set of sources you would know how stupid this post was.

Achilles said...

Temujin said...

Tar and Feathers are too soft for these people. Trump was right. The swamp needs to be drained. But not one of us realized just how much they hated their own citizens. They despise us. Our leaders.

From where I stand, it's time to clean out the entire house. Starting with Nancy and Chuck. Tomatoes and eggs for them, every time they stand in front of a mic. Nancy should be hit with a dozen tomatoes and eggs the next time she shows up anywhere.



As I have been stating for years, Donald J. Trump was set up by history to be Georges Danton.

roesch/voltaire said...

This five thousand plus bill is a disgraceful give away to the rich in tax breaks and subsidies while offering the average Jill and Joe six hundred dollars. I wish Trump had made his input sooner, but for once I agree with him.

Ron Winkleheimer said...

True. The peasant couldn't call the cops and have the guy thrown in jail for assault. Luckily, we can. Even granting the premise that we all became renters, why would that subject us to brutality by landlords?

The point is that a large, property owning middle class is a necessity to secure political rights. And that class of people are being destroyed, in the name of climate change and globalism. Its actually not surprising that someone like Trump came to political prominence as a defender of the middle class against the globalists. Its somewhat reminiscent of the struggles between kings, nobility, the Church, peasants, and the merchant class in the late middle ages. Anyway, Farmer, cops are enforcers of the status quo. Who do you think will be paying them? Whose will will they enforce? As for brutality, there probably won't be. For the most part peasants were not brutalized, after all they were assets needed to work the land. They just didn't have any rights that had to be respected.

D.D. Driver said...

I remember when only the "RINOs" would agree to hand out $600 checks. Now, it's still the RINOs but for a different reason.

Browndog said...

roesch/voltaire said...

This five thousand plus bill is a disgraceful give away to the rich in tax breaks and subsidies while offering the average Jill and Joe six hundred dollars. I wish Trump had made his input sooner, but for once I agree with him


The statement released by AOC could have been written by Ted Cruz.

Ron Winkleheimer said...

Peasants did not have a vote. Their opinions simply didn't matter. They did what they were told and believed what they were told to believe.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Mark said...If Trump actually cared about this he would have spent his political capital on this. Giving everyone $2000

Instead he has been spending it courting House members to resurrect the dead Kraken. AKA trying to get the election from being stolen by fraud and corruption.

I would far rather give up any financial hand out from the Government in exchange for having a Government that isn't corrupt to it's core.... or elected by out and out fraud and theft.

The $2000 will last for a few moments. It is a nice sum, but it is just a SOP to appease the peasants.

A stolen election, corrupt government and the loss of any assurance that anything will ever be fair and free again....THIS will last a lifetime and have dire long term consequences.

Kate said...

Marianne, as always, with the truth bomb. Goddess. The absolute and total opposite of boring.

Gusty Winds said...

Yeah. Pelosi held op any help all through the election season, while millions of Americans suffered through unnecessary Democrat lock downs. She filled the bill with pork, and screwed everyone. Only the residents of Madison would believe she is being honest. The woman is a despicable witch. To Trump’s credit he just boxed in the GOPe, which is the best part.

Ron Winkleheimer said...

A stolen election, corrupt government and the loss of any assurance that anything will ever be fair and free again....THIS will last a lifetime and have dire long term consequences.

Fortunately, our nobility is on par with France's under Louis the 15th and Louis the 16th. I wonder if Biden likes to work on clocks?

Lurker21 said...

That Kennedy Center money must end up being of benefit to politicians somehow. It can't be pure love of the arts that inspires Congress to fork over more money to them when they are already federally funded and have already laid off so many employees. I don't know if trustees are paid (they probably don't need the money) or if staffers can donate to political campaigns. Is it just that the capital city's need to be entertained comes first, or do money and favors make their way back to the senators and representatives? If we had a free press in this country somebody could to look into that.

Browndog said...

Jack Posobiec

NEW: Some White House advisors tried to stop Trump from making the $2000 video. He vetoed them. GOP leadership wanted to talk tonight afterward, but the President said there was nothing more to talk about.

tim maguire said...

Increase it from 600 to 2000, but without changing the final cost. Do that and they will do something with supporting.

narciso said...


The medium is the message


https://mobile.twitter.com/davereaboi/status/1341738378446991363

Birches said...

I don't care if the other crap is part of the omnibus bill...pass a stand alone bill and then pass the omnibus.

And if the government shuts down? Hmmm. Join the rest of America. Maybe you'll understand how restaurant and gym owners feel now.

Mr Wibble said...

NEW: Some White House advisors tried to stop Trump from making the $2000 video. He vetoed them. GOP leadership wanted to talk tonight afterward, but the President said there was nothing more to talk about.

GOP "advisors" should all be whipped through the streets. They are what's wrong with the party.

Birkel said...

A few of the Leftist Collectivists above sound the right notes.
But they will return to their Team almost immediately.
They can see the corruption but they root for the Home Team and will never root for the dreaded Other Team.
Not even when they know it is for their own good.

Personally I hope the destruction affects the big cities quickly.
I want it to destroy people, property, and delusions of adequacy.
You need to get it gooder and harder until you die or see the light.

(The Soros NGOs are happily joined by all the other NGOs, btw.)

Mark said...

What practically everyone is missing here is that these STIMULUS checks are not really about personal need. One's need or lack thereof is supposed to be irrelevant. They are stimulus checks, not personal relief checks.

They are meant to be spent by people in the general economy to stimulate the economy -- buying things so that the people who sell them can have jobs. And a rich person spending that money accomplishes that goal just as well as a poor person spending that money. The checks are not supposed to be about paying your rent, much less about being a government dependent.

Mark said...

AND the money is meant to be SPENT, even by people of means with big stock accounts, and not simply put away in the bank. Saving the money defeats its whole purpose.

Birkel said...

EXAMPLE:
For once I agree with Trump.

The unexamined life expressed by typing messages to strangers.
Here it is on full display.

Eric the Fruit Bat said...

It's only just occurred to me that this whole COVID thing must be terrible for prostitutes.

Achilles said...

Birkel said...

Personally I hope the destruction affects the big cities quickly.
I want it to destroy people, property, and delusions of adequacy.
You need to get it gooder and harder until you die or see the light.



It needs to happen while the memory of freedom is fresh in the minds of everyone alive.

Mike of Snoqualmie said...

We don't need a "stimulus" bill. We need to tell our idiot governors to STFU and get the Fck out of the way of the citizens. People want to work and earn a living, not get a pittance from our governing class. King Jay I Inslee is a prime example our idiot governor class.

We need term limits for both Congress. Twelve years for both the House and the Senate. Total of 24 years. The life time careers warps their mind into feathering their nests rather than doing what's best for the country.

MD Greene said...

What the Democrats "demanded" was 5,000 pages of line-by-line pork.

I'm fine helping out people who need it, but I'd draw the line well before assuming that the needy group includes people who had incomes of $150,000 before the pandemic.

And, yes, I know how expensive rent is/was in Manhattan and Southern California. Tough.

Michael K said...

I wish Trump had made his input sooner, but for once I agree with him.

Do you understand why Pelosi held this thing hostage for months, until after the election ?

Of course not.

Mike of Snoqualmie said...

A stimulus check can't stimulate a business that's closed. This "stimulus" bill should have been a resolution urging the governors to stop choking the life out of their businesses. Seventy-five percent of the infections occur in the home and social gatherings. Businesses account for little infection, and are vital for people to make a living. But, choking the life out of small business is a feature, not a bug. It removes an independent power base and concentrates power into government.

Darkisland said...

Blogger jim said...

Don can get out from under DB.

I keep hearing this and it is really bizarre. And ignorant too.

Donald Trump, in 2015, had a net worth of a bit more than $9 billion. As he swore under penalty of perjury to the Federal Election Commission.

Now that declined a bit because of his presidential run. It also increased a bit due to his smoking economy. So still probably at least $9bn

He owes DeutscheBank something like $400mm

A bit more than 4% of his net worth. He could pay it off with the change under his sofa cushions.

And you see this as a problem?

Do you think PDJT is as stupid that he sees it as a problem?

What percent of your net worth do you owe on Mortgage, car, credit cards, student loans etc?

John Henry

Darkisland said...

Blogger Eric the Fruit Bat said...

It's only just occurred to me that this whole COVID thing must be terrible for prostitutes.

Not at all. Politicians of both parties as well as their lobbyists are doing just fine

Thank you for your concern, though.

John Henry

J. Farmer said...

@Ron Winkleheimer:

The point is that a large, property owning middle class is a necessity to secure political rights.

How do you know that? If about 1/3 of the current American population is not property-owning, what secure their political rights?

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Mark said They [the checks]are meant to be spent by people in the general economy to stimulate the economy -- buying things so that the people who sell them can have jobs. And a rich person spending that money accomplishes that goal just as well as a poor person spending that money. The checks are not supposed to be about paying your rent, much less about being a government dependent.

Wow. Mark. Thanks for telling everyone how they can use their money. I didn't know you were a fan of John Maynard Keynes.

But...Is it ok if some people buy food? Rent...pshaw...who needs a place to live or utilities to stay connected to keep from freezing.

Buy STUFF!!! New blenders. Flat screen TVs. Nintendo Switches!!

You must be a government employee with a guaranteed salary and nice cushy pension plan.

Birkel said...

Smug has found a fence and wants it removed.
Chesterton smiles.

Charlie Currie said...

Don't forget, 10 years in prison for illegally streaming a crap Hollywood movie. Now that's some stimulus.

Mike of Snoqualmie said...

We need a single-subject constitutional amendment to prevent these 5,600-page monstrosity bills. Congress has been punting on its duty to pass individual bills for decades now.

Quayle said...

"How do you know that? If about 1/3 of the current American population is not property-owning, what secure their political rights?"

The possibility that they one day *could* own property. Democracy is by votes and by dollars. Since one could work hard and get rich, it meant that the dollar-votes were not capable of being collared.

Ron Winkleheimer said...

How do you know that?

I graduated from high school. There is nothing controversial about the statement.

https://underground.net/aristotle-and-the-middle-class/

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/03/middle-class-constitution/519909/

https://www.salon.com/2016/04/08/kiss_our_democracy_goodbye_partner/

As you can see, the links are all to left-wing sites.

And as to the second half of your question, If about 1/3 of the current American population is not property-owning, what secure their political rights?

Jack shit as far as I can tell.

Birkel said...

For all the "Trump should have been involved before the bill was passed" idiots:

https://mobile.twitter.com/derekahunter/status/1341581133163728896

It's almost like you're willfully ignorant.

Ron Winkleheimer said...

I've always assumed J. Farmer was a leftist, but since he appears to be all in for income inequality and for oligarchy, I must have been mistaken.

Ron Winkleheimer said...

That is, I graduated from high school back when they still taught civics and history.

donald said...

They won’t feel squat Birches. They’ll get it all back when they return. I bet half of federal government employees ( Hacks for the overwhelming majority, useless hacks, damaging hacks) plan vacations around these shut downs.

Assholes. The lot of ‘em.

narciso said...

https://legalinsurrection.com/2020/12/netanyahu-gantz-government-collapses-israel-headed-to-4th-election-in-2-years/

donald said...

“Hack shit as far as I can tell”. You’re right. I realized it this year.

MayBee said...

buying things so that the people who sell them can have jobs

I'm going to repeat what someone else said: You can't spend your stimulus checks at a business that has been closed by the governor.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

Nancy is a corrupt lying sack of shit

Wince said...

Pelosi believes she can persuasively control the narrative, and expects everyone to be on board with that.

Watch the spectacle with Wolf Blitzer.

jim said...

And you see this as a problem? Yes

Do you think PDJT is as stupid that he sees it as a problem? Yes, Trump knows he'll have a problem, but thanks to you he sees a way out.

What percent of your net worth do you owe on Mortgage, car, credit cards, student loans etc? 0

I'm Not Sure said...

"You can't spend your stimulus checks at a [small, family-owned] business that has been closed by the governor."

Big box stores and Amazon are open.

So you've got that going for you. Which is nice. If you're a big corporation.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

Is anyone talking Corrupt Nancy's corrupt pork...

International money drop so her family can continue to rape the American tax payer?

Howard said...

I hope Trump can pull this off. It would be a nice parting gift to the American people.

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

Mark. People with means - at least in terms of income - are not getting checks. Just like last time, my household isn’t getting anything. Husband made it through five rounds of layoffs, had his bonus cancelled (30% of compensation) and had his salary cut twice, but we can just fuck off. We would probably save and not spend it, or spend it on basic necessities to set aside, so that kind of makes your point. However lower income people are not using their stimulus money to save Main Street. They’re giving it to Amazon, Walmart and Target.

Michael K said...

Blogger Mike of Snoqualmie said...
We need a single-subject constitutional amendment to prevent these 5,600-page monstrosity bills. Congress has been punting on its duty to pass individual bills for decades now.


It's John McCain's gift to the American people and keeps on giving. McCain-Finegold, it's called.

Howard said...

J Farmer: thanks for cutting to the chase on the Covid credit card bill.

Earnest Prole said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Chuck said...

Lurker21 said...
That Kennedy Center money must end up being of benefit to politicians somehow. It can't be pure love of the arts that inspires Congress to fork over more money to them when they are already federally funded and have already laid off so many employees. I don't know if trustees are paid (they probably don't need the money) or if staffers can donate to political campaigns. Is it just that the capital city's need to be entertained comes first, or do money and favors make their way back to the senators and representatives? If we had a free press in this country somebody could to look into that.


The Kennedy Center appropriation -- in the exact same amount of $40m -- was in Trump's own original 2021 budget proposal. So reports CNBC contributor (and former Treasury and WH staffer) Tony Fratto:

George Conway Retweeted
Tony Fratto
@TonyFratto
·
2h
Not only is the $40m the president singled out for the Kennedy Center NOT in the Covid relief bill, it's EXACTLY the amount he asked Congress to appropriate in his 2021 Budget request.

And remember; we had this discussion about Kennedy Center (where Mrs. Donald Trump sits on the board) appropriations in the CARES Act, when Trump defended the appropriation.

D.D. Driver said...

Our Last Defense against Socialism demands that the Government give out bigger checks.

Earnest Prole said...

Birkel: Die or see the light.

The ideology Mao, Stalin, Hitler, and Pol Pot used to justify the murder of well more than 100 million people.

But I'm thankful for your willingness to tell us what you really believe.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

The right to own property is a right that belongs to 100% of everyone.

Not everyone can afford property - but that can change.
I know a lot of people who started with NOTHING. and they worked hard in order to own property.
The idea that private property rights must be removed --- [BECAUSE NOT FAIR!] or for any reason is... communist propaganda.

Mark said...

You know better than that DBQ. You're not a fan of being reduced to government dependency any more than I am.

The question is whether we look at these checks as (a) economic stimulus or (b) personal relief. That these checks are effectively welfare checks for some people is not a good thing -- and we should not be encouraging people to desire government relief or want these payments to be seen as relief checks. And those that point this out should not be criticized for doing so.

That it is vastly better that people should instead get their livelihood from a job should be, and is, obvious. Keeping the economy going -- those sectors that government still allows to function -- through spending, even pointless and wasteful spending on crap that no one really needs, allows at least some of those jobs to continue. Giving the $600 to a bank by putting it in one's $200,000-balance savings account does not help the poor schmuck trying to feed his family by trying to sell his goods or services.

The Keynesian aspect of it all is another matter entirely. I sure as hell don't support that. But that isn't what my point is about.

(Same point with taxes. A person does far greater good spending $10 at McDonalds than he does in giving that same $10 to the greedy government to spend for him.)

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

A government that does this to its people - needs to die.

Laughing Fox said...

Stimulus--oh yes, stimulate the big businesses that have been doing business throughout COVID. When some barriers went down 3rd quarter the economy grew by 33%. That's stimulation. Let's do it again, instead of adding to the debt, and to Congress ability to aid their friends and favorite causes.

MeMySelf said...

Well the steaming pos Pelosi came up with was $600,school and math class was a long, long time ago for me but I do believe if I search my memory and use a calculator $600 is a little less than $2000.

Mark said...

And, no, I don't buy that most of the country is living paycheck-to-paycheck, that we are only days away from bread lines.

The full amount of the checks go to individuals making up to $75,000.

If you think that is small change, then it is you who are privileged. Plenty of people making less than that who have large savings. I certainly have never made that much in a year.

(It is always curious when people try to argue that someone making well over $100,000 is low or middle income.)

jeremyabrams said...

Better a direct payout than an entitlement. Also, the sooner we get tapped out, the sooner we can stop worrying about socialism, and start worrying about bankruptcy.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

It takes 5593 pages to help Americans after the Chi-Com Get Trump out of office so we can restore the Biden-Pelosi-Clinton etc... there's more! international money whore scheme.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

my 10:11 post ***(in the US)

Michael K said...

Blogger Mark said...
And, no, I don't buy that most of the country is living paycheck-to-paycheck, that we are only days away from bread lines.


Not all people are government employees who get paid for not working, lefty Mark.

Mostly just Democrats.

Joe Smith said...

Nancy Pelosi is the most evil cunt in the history of evil cunts.

I used to think Hillary was the queen, but Hillary was just trying to get rich.

Pelosi has always had more money than God.

What's her excuse?

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Mark (Same point with taxes. A person does far greater good spending $10 at McDonalds than he does in giving that same $10 to the greedy government to spend for him.)

On this we are 100% in agreement.

The issue in the Covid relief bill is that most of it is NOT going to anything remotely related to Covid. Government is out of control, corrupt and the biggest waste of money in the form that it is now.

The crushing of small businesses by Government restrictions...especially in the Blue States (California where I live) is where the relief needs to go. Not to the Smithsonian. Gender studies in Pakistan. Ship rebuilding in Sri Lanka etc etc etc.

A person without a job and no prospects of hire because businesses are now closed. A person who has lost their life's work in the small business they used to own. $2000 is a drop in the bucket to those people. That "most" of the country is living paycheck to paycheck is an exaggeration....HOWEVER. Even before Covid panic, there are plenty of working class people who are living on that razor's edge. It doesn't take much to fall off of that edge.

Personally, I believe the answer is to get Government out of the way. Trump was doing a good job of this by reducing ridiculous regulations that impede progress and are punitive to the small business guy. SMALLER government. Less bureaucratic employees. And GTFO out of our faces. This is was good start.

Unfortunately, with the new Socialist Progressive Regime being weaseled into power.. Katy bar the door and hold onto your wallet, because it is all going to go Dixie. (as planned)

Joe Smith said...

"That Kennedy Center money must end up being of benefit to politicians somehow."

You don't know how it works?

The Democrats write a bill that contains $100 million for the Sierra Club or some other worthless organization that can't survive solely on the dues of members.

Later on, the Sierra Club gives the same Democrats $20 million in campaign contributions.

Do you see what happened?

The Dems gave away your money, and the pet cause organization kicked back a percentage of, again, your money.

Sweet deal if you can get it.

DINKY DAU 45 said...

Pelosi to call out trumps bluff tomorrow, put up $2000.00 or stop nonsensical games. trump will punt , you know Mitch is spitting out his false teeth, Rand very excited ,though he knows this is just noise to remain relevant. Let's go, all the Socialists waiting for bigger payday,,7 trillion in increased debt on this watch ,just another drop in the bucket ,sell back that Hydro they bought thats useless ,that will put a few bucks back. Its the RIVER CARD, lets see it.

I'm Full of Soup said...

None of the media are rushing to ask Biden if he would have signed this bill?

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

Biden will sign a pile of bills just like this...

It's all for the grifting ability and extortion for the Pelosi family and other powerful democrat families to rape the American tax payer and line their dirty corrupt pockets.


DINKY DAU 45 said...

“If the President truly wants to join us in $2,000 payments, he should call upon Leader McCarthy to agree to our Unanimous Consent request,” she wrote in her “dear colleague” letter.

There was no immediate response from McCarthy’s office. If it passes the House, it would be sent to the Republican-led Senate for approval.

Pelosi and other Democrats had been pushing for the $2,000 payments but Republicans led by Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., had shot the idea down during negotiations. The $600 amount per individual (or $2,400 for a family of four) that Congress finally settled on had been proposed by Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin.

But only a day after Congress overwhelmingly passed the $900 billion relief bill, Trump called the deal a "disgrace" in a tweeted video and urged congressional leaders to make changes to the bill, including increasing direct payments for Americans.

Bluff called. lets see the card. guarantee fold! Merry Christmas Comrades! For the Righties they'll have to send theirs back ,you know Socialism.(and the COLA 1.3% and the Medicare Advantage program perks)

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

Michael Walsh:

They call it the “Great Reset,” an opportunistic power grab by the international oligarchy to finally destroy the nation-state in the name of global governance, whose motto, like the Left’s, is “by any means necessary,” which very much includes both COVID-19 and “global warming” in their tactical philosophy. As Matthew 7:16 says, “By their fruits shall ye know them. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?”

So it is with the thorn-and-thistle-strewn 5,593-page “stimulus” bill, which includes $10 million for “gender programs” in Pakistan and a whole section on “horseracing integrity and safety.” Their contempt for you is a bitter mockery of the Founders’ aspirations to republican democracy, pearls before swine except the “pearls” are faux and the swine are you. Trump should veto it immediately.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

Are you leftwing hiveminders OK with all the non-covid related garbage in the bill?

We don't seem to hear a peep from you on the garbage Nancy inserted....
in her 5593 page bill.

Michael K said...

Bluff called. lets see the card. guarantee fold! Merry Christmas Comrades! For the Righties they'll have to send theirs back ,you know Socialism.(and the COLA 1.3% and the Medicare Advantage program perks)

Says the comrade. If only Comrade Stalin knew of this.

Joe Smith said...

"For the Righties they'll have to send theirs back..."

We won't be getting it in the first place.

Even if we did, it would only be a tiny rebate on the enormous amount we've already 'contributed' to the IRS.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

WE are all so impressed with the hack press in bed with the democrat party and their planned bullshit of raising 600 to 2000.

and how the press(D) ignore all the garbage and tax payer waste in Nancy's bill.

Birkel said...

Fopdoodle quotes a hack who points out that the Kennedy Center money is in the other bill, the one tied to the COVID bill.

Masochism is a bad look.

narciso said...

reaboi points out where the scam is, with the ngos,

Birkel said...

Earnest Prole:
I am suggesting the inevitable will happen due to Leftist Collectivists.
So that you see the connection to all those communists is correct.
And I am further saying you voted for them.

That you own your own complicity is a nice twist.
Inform the other Leftist Collectivists so they can quit denying the truth.
Thanks in advance.

rcocean said...

"That bill with all the pork and foreign aid symbolizes what is wrong with Washington. America hates Congress."

center-right people have been making this sort of vague complaint for 20 years. Then they go out and vote for and nominate the same RINO's and establishment types who vote for this crap. Start Naming names! Its McConnell and McCarthy and people like Romney, Collins and Lisa M who are behind this crap and sellout of the American people.

The only person standing against this is Trump, but he sends out mean tweets, so who cares if the election was stolen and we get Comrade Biden. personally i hope the two R's in GA lose, because having them in the Senate accomplishes nothing. Look at their votes for the DoD Bill, this abortion, and the H-1b sellout to Google and facebook.

rcocean said...

As long as R voters keep voting for the same characters election after election nothing will change. My own opinion, is that they just love to complain and beef about "Those men in Washington" but don't actually want to do anything about it.

rcocean said...

BTW Mittens is 110% on board with this. How tragic we didn't get President Romney in 2013!

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

Look everyone. The corrupt hacks agree to 2000! They got Trump! That will show em.

This horrendous corrupt lard filled disgrace is being sold to us in this manner.

Joe Smith said...

"BTW Mittens is 110% on board with this. How tragic we didn't get President Romney in 2013!"

I was so pissed off at Obama's socialist/racist bullshit that I actually sent Mitt some campaign money...a decent chunk.

I haven't (before or since) donated to politicians because they're all corrupt assholes.

What a mistake...but desperate people do desperate things.

That cocksucker owes me money.

Birkel said...

https://www.wsj.com/video/empty-grocery-shelves-miles-of-trucks-as-france-closes-border-to-uk/69F80449-4961-4F9F-9EC5-FE30A4BF4CA7.html?mod=trending_now_video_1

The lockdowns of European cities make prisoners of people who used to be citizens.
The Leftist Collectivists salivate.

Chuck said...


"Trump’s not trying to get people more money. He’s trying to set up telling people he wanted them to have more money but the establishment wouldn’t do it."

https://mobile.twitter.com/NGrossman81/status/1341590255556829186?s=20

Birkel said...

As with everything else, fopdoodles read minds poorly.

pacwest said...

The recent dust up Pelosi had with Blitzer on CNN was very instructive on the current Dem gameplan. "WE feed them Wolf. WE feed them. We feed them." From Pelosi's hand to our mouths. So be sure to wag your tails when you get your government handout. Good boy!

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

Wondering...
Why does it take 5593 pages to give everyone $600 each. Or $2000 each?
Odd. Stranger still – the press refuse to discuss the garbage within those 5593 pages. The narrative is the same, as always - the wonderful democrats, under Nancy’s leadership upped it from 600 to 2000. And mean old Trump is bad. Oh – joy!
Ignored still – all that rotten tax payer waste and international grift that remains in the Bill.
Does all that international money drop/grift aid the Pelosi family, or other democrat families? The democrat party press will not ask. Never.

Chuck said...

I regret having to observe the obvious here; but what exactly did Marianne Williamson mean, by the comment contained within her Tweet?

No one seems to have asked. Is it obvious, and I am just missing it? I don't get it. Ms. Williamson doesn't seem to understand that Trump's agent -- Treasury Secretary Mnuchin -- was an integral part of the deal all the way through. And against that backdrop (does Marianne Williamson even understand that?), Trump's turning against the bill is strategically incomprehensible. It is tactically understandable, as Trump throwing Congressional Republicans under the bus after they voted for a bill that had the blessing of Mnuchin/Trump. And Trump doing it for his own personal gain in some misty political future. (Per the Noah Grossman quote I posted above.)

Simply and directly, what is Ms. Williamson suggesting?

Birkel said...

Verbiage. Verbiage. Verbiage.
Simply and directly...
Too fucking late.

Meanwhile, Trump was asking for larger direct payments and a clean bill for the last few months.
Some people lie.

Readering said...

At least president elect is not Williamson. I guess she did not study politics before running for president.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

Chuck - nobody read Nancy's 5593 pages. Including Trump.

That is why it's 5593 pages.

Drago said...

It became quite clear to me yesterday why it was LLR-lefty Chuck had come out and happily and passionately endorsed an openly marxist radical left democratical candidate for the Senate (Warnock) in GA last week.

Now, normally just being a marxist or far left democratical is all it takes for LLR-lefty Chuck to go to bat for someone, but yesterday the stories came out about Warnock being a "domestic violence"/attacking women and threatening children sort of fellow and then it all clicked.

Given Chuck's long, long, history of attacking children and threatening women at Althouse blog its clear that not only has Chuck found a fellow far left radical democratical policy hero in Warnock, LLR-lefty Chuck has also found a social behavior soulmate in Warnock.

Yes indeed, one sticks around long enough and one finds the root cause/drivers for most actions.

Patience is a virtue.

Drago said...

Birkel: "Meanwhile, Trump was asking for larger direct payments and a clean bill for the last few months.
Some people lie."

Lying about Trump is one of 2 of LLR-lefty Chuck's explicitly stated purposes, which he bragged about, for posting at Althouse.

Recall that Chuck's other explicitly stated purpose for posting at Althouse Blog was to "drive a wedge between Althouse and her readers".

I always found it so strange that LLR-lefty Chuck would so proudly admit such a thing in a thread involving meade, but then I remembered LLR-lefty Chuck "likes", as in really, really, really likes gin and tonics and I found that most of these sorts of declarations made by Chuck are often made after the cocktail hour or late on weekend nights.....

Mikey NTH said...

Why didn't Pelosi just ask Trump in the first place what number he thinks it should be? Would save a lot of work that way, right?

Drago said...

Shorter LLR-lefty Chuck: its Trump's fault Pelosi is Pelosi!

Morgan Freeman Narrator Voice: What Chuck neglected to mention is his complete worshipful adoration of Pelosi "skews" his already pro-dem "analytical" assessment of political tactics and outcomes.

pacwest said...

Some people lie.

And the sun rises in the east.

Chuck said...


Blogger Mikey NTH said...
Why didn't Pelosi just ask Trump in the first place what number he thinks it should be? Would save a lot of work that way, right?


McConnell and McCarthy and Mnuchin all said no.

Jim at said...

Are you leftwing hiveminders OK with all the non-covid related garbage in the bill?

Apparently they are. Because the only thing they can spew is bullshit about Trump.

Fuck them.

Drago said...

"Are you leftwing hiveminders OK with all the non-covid related garbage in the bill?"

Always be sure to include leftists who pose as conservatives on blogsites, many of whom label themselves "lifelong republicans", along with your "leftwing hiveminders" as they one and the same.

Obviously.

Ron Winkleheimer said...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxRkHeQ7-B8

Mark said...

all the non-covid related garbage in the bill

At the risk of being labeled a leftist after I pointed out that the checks were not supposed to be relief checks, but stimulus checks (hence the name), I'm going to go ahead and point out that the bill of course has LOTS of non-COVID stuff in it because it is TWO BILLS IN ONE. The COVID relief provisions were added onto the regular appropriations bill for much of the government.

Then again, it is hard to keep up when you have identity theft going on before I even get here to comment.

Birkel said...

The point of the CR bill, with all the pork, is to set the bar for the next year's budget under the 1974 Budget Act.
The spending that is now increased can be increased every subsequent year - in fact must be increased if no Budget is passed - under that Nixon-era law.

So Chuck, Nancy, and Mitch are setting themselves up for massive increases in spending so long as a Democratical is in the White House.
That is the game they are playing.
This is not a one-off.
This is the Leftward Ratchet in operation.

Joe Smith said...

"The point of the CR bill..."

I know it's unpopular with politicians, but could we please just get a bill with actual line items?

Do your fucking jobs.

Birkel said...

Joe Smith,
They will never take responsibility: that has been passed to the bureaucracy.
The 435 members will have to be substantially replaced and promise to take control.
That requires the Long March through the Republican Party.

Do you have 50 years?
Does the country?

Doug said...

rhhardin said...
I'd propose $2000 for black people and $600 for white people. Out-virtue that.


I'll see that and raise you $1800 for illegals.

Michelle Dulak Thomson said...

I am curious about the "stimulus bill" business. Paul Krugman, for one, has been saying for months that it's not "stimulus" at all, but rather relief/bailout: People are anxious to spend money, and the problem is that they haven't got it, whereas in a stimulus situation it's demand that's down. And yet the rest of the NYT Op-Ed page persists in calling it a "stimulus bill." Maybe they can't imagine such vast sums being spent on anything else?

Michelle Dulak Thomson said...

Joe Smith,

I, too, would appreciate line items, and the accompanying ability to veto them individually. Apparently that has fallen by the wayside since the last serious attempt at it (under Reagan?).

Michelle Dulak Thomson said...

Meant to add: This is how things get passed in a regime w/o earmarks: Instead of everyone voting for a particular Senator's or Congressman's pet project, everyone agrees to vote for a vast undifferentiated glob, in which blame/credit/what have you for each item is conveniently invisible to all. (Nominally invisible, that is; I'm sure Congresscritter-watchers in the know could trace most of the 5500-plus pp. of matter to their original "onlie begetters.")

There was a piece in favor of earmarks (really!) on one of the Op-Ed pages last week. I can't remember now whether it was the NYT or WaPo (hoping for Ye Good Olde Dayes?) or the WSJ (mitigating the damage?), but either way it was a sign of the times.

Hercules, not that one though said...

Apparently, we are all beggars now, we're only negotiating the amount we will accept. Throw a dollar into my cup? Where's my Congressman? Why does he countenance this insult? Why hasn't he kept the ravenous wolves of Washington DC from my door? That's his job.

We send good men to the 24hr a day cesspit of our corrupted Capitol City and they are bought off, paid off, tempted and destroyed.

I propose the Federal Gov't give us nothing other than getting off our necks.

Trump was not the savior. Trump was John the Baptist.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

Teh odious 5593 pages began in the house. where is all starts

J. Farmer said...

@Ron Winkleheimer:

How do you know that?

I graduated from high school. There is nothing controversial about the statement.


I most certainly agree that inequality can be destructive towards social cohesion, cooperation, and trust. But that is not the same thing as "a large, property owning middle class is a necessity to secure political rights." In terms of securing political rights, nobody know what is "a necessity." Has it even been true historically? I mean, when would you say the US had a "a large, property owning middle class" and were political rights secured prior to that time?

The Vault Dweller said...

Look at Marrianne Williamson try to pretend that she would have been the hard-nosed fighter that got Democrats respect. Speaker of the House is arguably the second most powerful position in the Federal Government, but even the most effective wielder's of that position are at a severe handicap compared to even the most ineffective wielders of the President's bully-pulpit.

If Pelosi agrees to $2,000 per person, Republicans, assuming they have their side's support in the Senate and can pass that bill, should pass a clean bill that solely funds the $2,000 per person and then maybe funds the small business paycheck protection stuff a little longer. That is it. There would be unbelievable pressure on the house to accept it. Even the left-wing media would pressure the Speaker to accept the deal. Dig up some cash to run ads specifically against Pelosi featuring her Freezer full of gourmet ice-cream and say she doesn't care if other Americans can't pay rent or buy food as long as she's got hers. I know there is no election but there is some unsatisfaction among Democrats in the house. Plenty of Dem members are not a fan of Pelosi's leadership. And she wants to get elected Speaker for the next Congress as well. Targeted ads against her would be effective. Because they could used as public ammunition by a challenger to her among the Democrats.

Earnest Prole said...

I am further saying you voted for them.

You obviously haven't the slightest idea who I voted for. I, on the other hand, know you're a "die or see the light" kind of guy because you told us yourself.

When people tell you who they are, believe them.

The Vault Dweller said...

Apparently that has fallen by the wayside since the last serious attempt at it (under Reagan?). I think a Line Item Veto bill was passed during Clinton's presidency. I kind of remember footage of him 'Being the first president to exercise it". It was rightfully struck down by the courts as unconstitutional I believe. While in principal I think many people like the idea of a line item veto, I think it is really tough to implement one because essentially you are giving the President grammatical editing powers over the bill. And while most would expect a president to wholly strike a particular spending item, they can also say, strike the NOT in a SHALL NOT and change something into the complete opposite.

Hercules, not that one though said...

Political rights are never secured for long. To what anchor do you secure them? The anchor was God, but who believes in the Spaghetti Monster in the Sky now? The nation is set adrift, to ponder the wisdom of 20-something lime green haired girls with a nice rack, who pontificate about trans-rights.

And yet...the lost can be found.

Merry Christmas.








Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

remember - when democrats demand and force - it's democracy.

When anyone else makes a suggestion - it's fascism.

Hercules, not that one though said...

As a reluctant Republican, I confess I like Democrats. I like to argue with them. This thing we're faced with is not about Democrats. It's progressives. Progressives don't argue...they won't discuss. They have a god, and will not tolerate any dissent. What is their god? Is it Marx' expert class? Is it the 'new Soviet man'? Is it the Utopia that could be achieved if only the knuckledraggin flyover people would stop fighting their betters?

Here's the Progressive Utopia: Workers would have shelter. They would be given clothes and boots to wear. They would have cafeterias where they would be fed. A factory would be across the street so they would not need to have a car, or have to buy gas. Their needs would be met.

And then some asshole asks, 'What about a jetski?

Apparently, the workers are not content to be fed, watered, and sheltered. To have all their needs met is not enough. They have wants. They are ungrateful.

And so it goes.


Marcus Bressler said...

Eric the Fruit Bat said...
It's only just occurred to me that this whole COVID thing must be terrible for prostitutes.

MNe: Why would you think that? Hookers do a vast amount of drugs and practice unsafe sex, AS DO THEIR JOHNS. Why would you think that a flu-like virus that has an over 99% survival rate would ever deter them from practicing their craft. (Not Bob Kraft, sorry)

THEOLDMAN

Marcus Bressler said...

Why is Chuck still here?

THEOLDMAN

He doesn't get it. We DON'T want the Kennedy Center to get $ either then or now in this type of bill, REGARDLESS of Trump's position on it. Asshat.

Marcus Bressler said...

Mark said...
And, no, I don't buy that most of the country is living paycheck-to-paycheck, that we are only days away from bread lines.

Don't care what you buy into. Not only are vast numbers of Americans living paycheck-to-paycheck, but a great deal, thanks to asshat governors, are living NO paycheck-to-NO paycheck.

Obviously you haven't seen the news about handouts during the pandemic, lines that stretched for miles. Either that or you're just stupid. Bets, anyone?

THEOLDMAN

Hercules, not that one though said...

In the '90s, Hillary sent her feminists over to Africa to give micro-loans to women so they could kick their husbands out of the family and not be oppressed. We got Boko-Haram.

Now, we want to send feminists to Pakistan to help them kick their husbands out of the family and not be oppressed.

Didn't we already do this to black families in America?

Are we the baddies?

Birkel said...

Earnest Prole,
I do know for whom you have voted. You are a Democratical through and through.

I wish for you and all Democraticals exactly what you wish for me, as always.

Michelle Dulak Thomson said...

The Vault Dweller,

Oh. I see what you mean. If the POTUS can edit within a line item, yes, he can completely change the meaning of the text, either by striking a negative (as you say) or changing the funding level. But that isn't what "veto" ordinarily means, is it? The POTUS ought to be given two options for each funding item: (1) leave as is; or (2) strike in its entirety.

There might still be Constitutional problems with that, as regards keeping executive and legislative powers roughly equal, but at present the POTUS has the choice of accepting or rejecting the whole thing, which means basically that the opposing party (and his own, for that matter) can throw anything and everything into the one giant Glob, which he can reject only by shutting down the government. Or, in this case, denying needed COVID relief unless it comes packaged with Pakistani gender training and who knows (not I!) what else. That can't be right.

Marcus, I take your point, but one reason the lines are so long is mandatory social distancing, nyet? And the lines are full of people who don't want to take "charity" because they are so conspicuously well-off. I remember an NPR segment -- a quite sympathetic one -- about a woman who hated being in line for the food pantry b/c her neighbors knew she was recently divorced, with two small kids, and yet had a new Cadillac and a new house to go with her two small children. Apparently she wasn't working even before COVID, but all this was accomplished by child support from her ex, who worked as maitre d' at a high-end hotel. Only, whaddaya know, he lost his job due to COVID and, well, what's the poor woman to do? I'd say "sell the Caddy, for starters," but that's only because I'm a heartless right-winger.

Lem said...

https://twitter.com/anakasparian/status/1341627045709680640?s=21