Althouse: At the Sunrise Café...

December 22, 2020

At the Sunrise Café...

... you can talk about whatever you like.

222 comments:

1 – 200 of 222 Newer› Newest»

mockturtle said...: Is it true that 'gender training in Pakistan' is included in the Relief Package? Someone reported that yesterday, IIRC. Not to mention, of course, the usual array of programs designed to further instill victimhood status in minorities. Is this the Chinese Cultural Revolution? At what point, exactly, did we become one big re-education camp???; 12/22/20, 6:12 PM
Crimso said...: I assume the gender training in Pakistan is graft. Having trouble believing that anyone could be brave enough (or stupid enough) to try to push something like that in Pakistan. Or did Pakistan become real woke in the past few years and we somehow missed the news?; 12/22/20, 6:18 PM
Achilles said...: Inaugurating Biden is a mistake.; 12/22/20, 6:19 PM
Big Mike said...: Very moody photo. Matches this sorry excuse of a Christmas season.; 12/22/20, 6:21 PM
Jupiter said...: How they stole the election in Wisconsin; 12/22/20, 6:24 PM
Michael K said...: Althouse seems to have fixated on trivia to avoid the election issues. Understandable, I guess.; 12/22/20, 6:27 PM
iowan2 said...: I assume the gender training in Pakistan is graft.

Gosh, I wonder who would conduct the training??? Maybe an NGO non profit, like the Clinton Global Initiative. See how that works? I think every congress critter has at least one, and probably several "charities" and "think tanks" that would bid and get govt funded grants to help a lesser developed country.
This Pakistan gender training pot of gold should be tracked down 10 month from now and see whos pocket that money ended up.; 12/22/20, 6:30 PM
FullMoon said...: WTF?Bidenism:You’re a one horse pony.’”; 12/22/20, 6:33 PM
n.n said...: Gender training: masculine and feminine sex-correlated physical and mental attributes. A male has a penis. He likes females. A female has a vagina. She likes males. Men and women are equal in rights and complementary in Nature. Note the transgender spectrum exceptions that progress through genetic and phenotypic anomalies, and indoctrination and medical corruption in socially forward societies.; 12/22/20, 6:33 PM
FullMoon said...: Dog faced pony soldier, One horse pony...some kind of fetish goin' on.; 12/22/20, 6:35 PM
David Begley said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 12/22/20, 6:38 PM
Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...: "So you are telling me that the people who wrote a bill stealing your money for Sudan, Pakistan, Burma, Nepal, Cambodia, illegal aliens, windmills, solar panels, 1908 Springfield race riots and horse performance enhancing drugs while giving you only $600 wouldn't steal your votes?"
@rising_serpent; 12/22/20, 6:38 PM
David Begley said...: Ann:

Is “one horse pony” a Delaware expression? Or did Dementia Joe mean to say “one trick pony?”

We have certain Nebraska sayings and odd pronunciations starting with the town of Beatrice.; 12/22/20, 6:40 PM
John henry said...: "We have never been at war with EastAsia"

"The Atlantic has always been willing to give President Trump credit where credit is due. "

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/12/the-things-trump-got-right/617424/

John Henry; 12/22/20, 6:45 PM
Howard said...: Blogger Big Mike said...

Very moody photo. Matches this sorry excuse of a Christmas season.

It's a beautiful X mas season here in Center Mass if you live by The Spirit of America. Snow shoveling, blowing and sweeping kicked butt replacing the need for my basement gym for a couple days. The snowshoeing with my ytounger workout friends has been off the hook. Did a nice packed single track hill charging hike today in Yak Trax with raking sun gusting wind and swift clouds rolling in... gorgeous. NBA season starts and my Warriors suck.; 12/22/20, 6:46 PM
Big Mike said...: Repeating my comment from yesterday's cafe thread:

$900 Billion divided by 330 Million Americans = $2,727.

Actual amount sent to Americans = $600.

Who is getting the other $2,127?

(Besides Pakistan.); 12/22/20, 6:50 PM
Doug said...: In her warnings, Dr. Birx forgot to mention that if we wanted to travel and get together with our families, we would be allowed to do so as long as we were winterizing our vacation homes and not having turkey.; 12/22/20, 6:53 PM
320Busdriver said...: Trump has to veto the bill.; 12/22/20, 6:54 PM
Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...: Madame LaScarf to retire, blames the peasants

...Hermès hardest hit; 12/22/20, 6:54 PM
Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...: Not to be outdone by amateur evil-doers

...Satan proposes a 666 dollar Covid relief check.

Just think what you can do with that extra $66 bucks!; 12/22/20, 6:59 PM
Howard said...: Trump's right here: "I am asking Congress to amend this bill and increase the ridiculously low $600 (direct payment) to $2,000 or $4,000 for a couple," Trump said in a video posted to Twitter of him speaking from the White House. "I'm also asking Congress to immediately get rid of the wasteful and unnecessary items from this legislation and to send me a suitable bill, or else the next administration will have to deliver a COVID relief package."; 12/22/20, 7:00 PM
D.D. Driver said...: Repeating my comment from yesterday's cafe thread:

$900 Billion divided by 330 Million Americans = $2,727.

Actual amount sent to Americans = $600.

Who is getting the other $2,127?

Why would anyone care if it's other people's money anyhow and they get a cut!; 12/22/20, 7:00 PM
Michael K said...: Howard is enjoying himself and I understand that his team stole the election and he has no worries about such minor annoyances as transgender athletes killing off women's sports. I was never much in favor of all the money spent on women's sports, so I don't care. Trannies in girls' showers I don't like but one of my grand daughters is going to be 6 feet tall and will probably be able to kick Howard's ass. She is in 8th grade and is taller than her mother.

Guns, of course, are something Howard has had no experience with and knows nothing about. If they leave us alone, maybe peace will continue.

Taxes I don't care about since almost all my income is tax free. Not rich but secure.

The US military is mostly hollowed out with SJWs running things. Nobody above O-6 is worth a shit.

The US Navy is a joke.

Howard is not worried as long as Mass voters can drive up to the NH border liquor store and avoid Mass taxes. I would wish they went back home but I don't live there anymore. I-94 ruined Vermont and the proximity of MA to NH has ruined that state.; 12/22/20, 7:06 PM
mockturtle said...: Day Care for Congress, for one. I'm sure the cost of that is greatly inflated to include the necessary graft.

Trump is threatening to veto the Bill and I hope he does. He wants people to get more money and, frankly, it's not worth $600 if it means we have to pay for all those special interest items.; 12/22/20, 7:07 PM
Michael K said...: Howard, Thanks for the update on Trump. Fox today announced that he would sign the piece of shit. Maybe he got a lot of feedback.; 12/22/20, 7:07 PM
mockturtle said...: I just emailed President Trump and asked him to please veto this legislation.; 12/22/20, 7:11 PM
Kate said...: Congress is free. The Trump years are done and they no longer have to pretend to respect MAGA. I hope he vetoes this monstrosity. At least we now know who really meant it when they said they were with us.; 12/22/20, 7:18 PM
Rt41Rebel said...: @ Big Mike

Not every American is getting that $600. I'm not, I worked in 2019 and made more than $75K. Family members of illegal immigrants will get $1800, $600 for this round and $1200 retroactive from the last package.; 12/22/20, 7:20 PM
William50 said...: It's 900 Billion in "Covid relief" (yeah right) and an addtional 1.4 trillion in catchall spending.; 12/22/20, 7:26 PM
Rt41Rebel said...: I hope Trump signs it, so that Inga's, Howard's, Readering's, Uhr's, and Chuck's grandchildren have a little something to remember us for.; 12/22/20, 7:31 PM
Big Mike said...: @Rt1Rebel, I'm not getting anything either. You're not alone. My point was that damned little of the COVID relief bill is actually going to relieve the economic pain of the overreaction to coronavirus.; 12/22/20, 7:47 PM
Lewis Wetzel said...: Here is what Nancy Pelosi said on the house floor, today, about why it took so long to get the covid-porculus. I think that the woman actually believes every word that she is saying, and that it works as a rational statement about the real world:
"We didn’t do it, we couldn’t pass legislation until now because the administration simply did not believe in testing, tracing, treatment, wearing masks, sanitation, separation, and the rest – scientific approach.It becomes clear to us now that they believed in herd immunity – quackery springing right from the Oval Office and not denied sufficiently by some of the CDC and the rest.”

“Now we have a vaccine, and that gives us hope. A vaccine that springs from science. People say around here sometimes, ‘I’m faith-oriented, so I don’t believe in science’ and I said ‘Well you can do both.’ Science is an answer to our prayers, and our prayers have been answered with a vaccine. In this legislation, we have provisions for it to be developed, purchased, and distributed in a way, again, that is fair and equitable and free.”

Now Nancy was born to the wealthy, politically connected Maryland D'Allesandro family. She married a wealthy developer with connections to Bay Area politics in 1963. Pelosi has never experienced so much as the shadow of a moment of want in all of her life. Wikipedia says that she is the 13th wealthiest member of congress, but that is deceptive. Because whe has long standing political connections and wealth through her own family on the East Coast, and long standing political connections and wealth though her husband's family on the West Coast, Pelosi represents wealth beyond the dreams of Croesus. Trumps grandkids could end up broke and destitute. Not Pelosi's.

Nancy Pelosi; 12/22/20, 7:47 PM
John henry said...: 7:00 PM

Michael K said...

"The US military is mostly hollowed out with SJWs running things. Nobody above O-6 is worth a shit."

Never trust anyone over E-9 was my motto.

And now, with selection boards instead of straight, quantitative, promotions, I'm not even sure about sr/master chiefs any more. They seem to have been politicized starting 20 year ago.

Navy promotion for e4 - e9 used to be based on a navywide exam, twice a year. Add exam points, time in rate, time in service, points for medals and so on. They needed an additional 1000MM1s, worldwide? The top 1000 names on the points list got promoted.

It didn't matter if the skipper hated your ass because you were unpc. Neither they nor anyone else had any say whatever in the matter.

I miss the old navy.

John Henry; 12/22/20, 7:48 PM
Howard said...: What ever happened to the stiff upper lip?; 12/22/20, 7:49 PM
Josephbleau said...: Congress is a den of thieves. Look at what we are giving the poor, don’t look at what I am giving to myself. A true criminal conspiracy. I will grant you your mite from my clutching claw, for I can fill my craw while you snatch it up. There has never been a more contemptible group of alleged human beings. The elites smile behind the scenes, congresses job is to take the bribes, and take the public’s anger. Congress has no shame so there is nothing for them to worry about. And now we have Biden, the ex senator of MBNA bank. Is he not an inspiration for us all, the stinking criminal?; 12/22/20, 7:50 PM
Browndog said...: Like they said-

If nobody in Congress read the 5,000 page bill that contained one sentence to give you $600....WHO THE FUCK WROTE IT?; 12/22/20, 7:53 PM
stevew said...: Hear, Hear Lewis.; 12/22/20, 7:55 PM
John henry said...: Lewis Wetzel said...

"Now Nancy was born to the wealthy, politically connected Maryland D'Allesandro family."

Something of an understatement there, Lewis. Also should have included the word "corrupt"

They were wealthy because they were the Baltimore Democrat political machine for 40 years or so.

Nancy pelosi's family is directly responsible for the shithole city that Baltimore has been for a long long time.

John Henry; 12/22/20, 7:56 PM
John henry said...: Preach it, Joseph!

John Henry; 12/22/20, 7:57 PM
Qwinn said...: Just saw video about an hour ago, just released by Trump, where he lists a LOT of the awful pork in the bill. He is calling on Congress to get rid of the pork, add relief to restaurants, and raise the aid to $2000 per person.

Nothing anyone with a soul could argue with. The Left will make it sound like only Hitler could object to that horror show of a bill.; 12/22/20, 7:59 PM
MadTownGuy said...: Big Mike said...
"Repeating my comment from yesterday's cafe thread:

$900 Billion divided by 330 Million Americans = $2,727.

Actual amount sent to Americans = $600.

Who is getting the other $2,127?"

Deep State functionaries and their bosses.; 12/22/20, 8:00 PM
Howard said...: Nobody likes the bill except congress and their contributors.; 12/22/20, 8:02 PM
Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...: she's quite the 'crumb' herself

Pelosi called the $600 direct payment checks to suffering Americans
“significant.”
... a curious reversal from January of 2018 when Pelosi called $2,500 employee bonuses stemming from Trump’s tax cuts “insignificant crumbs.”; 12/22/20, 8:06 PM
mockturtle said...: Some of this bill is beyond pork. Pork usually involves projects in someone's Congressional district or state. Many of these items are not even for Americans. My Congressman voted against it. Looks like both of my Senators voted for it. How can we contact our elected officials about legislation if we don't know what's in a bill until after it's passed? I want my money back!!!; 12/22/20, 8:10 PM
Josephbleau said...: Remember in fiction where the industrialist sits in his walnut paneled office in his Hudson Valley estate and hears rumors that his evil plan is in danger. “I’ll call ‘my’ senator on this, it’s about time I got some use of the stinking slug for all the money he costs.” That senator was Joe Biden.; 12/22/20, 8:12 PM
Flat Tire said...: Can someone post a link that lists all the ridiculous stuff in this bill? Thanks in advance.; 12/22/20, 8:13 PM
mockturtle said...: John Henry says: I miss the old navy. .

Not the old British navy, I hope. Churchill described its tradition as, "rum, sodomy and the lash".; 12/22/20, 8:20 PM
Chuck said...: Qwinn said...
Just saw video about an hour ago, just released by Trump, where he lists a LOT of the awful pork in the bill. He is calling on Congress to get rid of the pork, add relief to restaurants, and raise the aid to $2000 per person.

Wait; why is Trump just now making that suggestion?

Why wasn't Mnuchin demanding that all along?

Has Trump spoken to McConnell and McCarthy about what he wants?

In two weeks while this bill was being negotiated, there must have been 250 Trump tweets about the election having been "stolen." What did Trump say about the COVID relief bill, or the budget CR? And apart from the naming of military bases after Confederates and Trump's silly bitching about "Section 230" of the Communications Decency Act, what has Trump said about any spending bill?

It's not that I find the idea of cutting pork and boosting stimulus direct payments to $2000 per person so objectionable; I just don't think that Trump is going to veto it. Trump likes bitching. He doesn't like working on legislation.; 12/22/20, 8:21 PM
Chuck said...: Qwinn; about Trump's video...

Speaker Pelosi calls his bluff immediately, and offers that Democrats will bring his $2000 per person payment proposal to the floor.

Nancy Pelosi
@SpeakerPelosi
· 48m
Republicans repeatedly refused to say what amount the President wanted for direct checks. At last, the President has agreed to $2,000 — Democrats are ready to bring this to the Floor this week by unanimous consent. Let’s do it! twitter.com/realDonaldTrum…; 12/22/20, 8:25 PM
mockturtle said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 12/22/20, 8:31 PM
narciso said...: In other sham news

https://mobile.twitter.com/HisBlakeness/status/1341497379464368130; 12/22/20, 8:33 PM
mockturtle said...: Flat Tire: Here is a link to a summary of the $908 billion COVID Relief Bill [not the total Spending Bill]:Link. Be sure to scroll down to List of Provisions in the Bipartisan State and Local Support and Small Business Protections . The recipients are: States, counties, municipalities and tribes.; 12/22/20, 8:34 PM
Rt41Rebel said...: "Nancy Pelosi
@SpeakerPelosi
· 48m
Republicans repeatedly refused to say what amount the President wanted for direct checks. At last, the President has agreed to $2,000 — Democrats are ready to bring this to the Floor this week by unanimous consent. Let’s do it! twitter.com/realDonaldTrum..."

That's great, Chuck. Is Nancy Palsy offering to cut the pork out to pay for $2000 per, or is she just offering to add to the cost of the bill to get to $2000?; 12/22/20, 8:34 PM
effinayright said...: Michael K said...
Althouse seems to have fixated on trivia to avoid the election issues. Understandable, I guess.
******************
I agree.

As each day offers new revelations about how her soul-mate progs engaged in traitorous and seditious criminality to fix the 2020 POTUS election, our retired Con Law Prof averts her gaze.

Why? Because she now understands that to her Radical Prog ilk, the Constitution is now DOO-DOO, and the "Republic of Virtue" now a declaration of "White Supremacy".

If she were teaching today she knows her syllabus would be met by her "woke" students with hot, mocking laughter.

So "Rigorous Mortification" has set in.; 12/22/20, 8:36 PM
Roughcoat said...: mockturtle:

The actual quaote was "rum, BUGGERY, and the lash."

More colorful version, wouldn't you say?; 12/22/20, 8:36 PM
Rt41Rebel said...: And what about unemployment? A huge chunk of folks made more than 75K last year don't qualify for any of the direct payment still lost their jobs and have exhausted all state and fed unemployment benefit at this point. $300 for 10 weeks is enough for them?; 12/22/20, 8:38 PM
Rt41Rebel said...: The actual quaote was "rum, BUGGERY, and the lash."

IOW "The beatings will continue until morale improves."; 12/22/20, 8:42 PM
effinayright said...: mockturtle said...
John Henry says: I miss the old navy. .

Not the old British navy, I hope. Churchill described its tradition as, "rum, sodomy and the lash".*******************

Yes. Let's not forget the "Peg Boys" so beloved by the British swabbies.; 12/22/20, 8:43 PM
narciso said...: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-9078599/amp/Archaeology-Ritual-bath-time-Jesus-Garden-Gethsemane-Jerusalem.html; 12/22/20, 8:44 PM
Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...: dont keep us in susPence

"...the federal check to the states’ elections resides with Vice President Mike Pence in his role as President of the Senate. Additionally, Pence has the sole power determine whether to reject impermissible states of electors. However, Pence is legally required to do this on the fourth Wednesday in December, which this year falls on December 23."

https://nationalfile.com/exclusive-white-house-memo-details-how-pence-card-can-save-trumps-presidency-on-dec-23/; 12/22/20, 8:45 PM
mockturtle said...: Roughcoat, I've read it both ways and agree that Churchill was more likely to have said 'buggery'. Guess I was trying to be graceful about it. ;-); 12/22/20, 8:49 PM
mockturtle said...: As each day offers new revelations about how her soul-mate progs engaged in traitorous and seditious criminality to fix the 2020 POTUS election, our retired Con Law Prof averts her gaze.

I rather think Althouse is more concerned about losing her blog platform and not unreasonably so. But, heck, if we can't talk sedition here, where can we? :-); 12/22/20, 8:52 PM
Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...: too pooped to Pope??

"POPE FRANCIS will step down before the end of the year, according to a source close to the Vatican, who said there was "no doubt" the Pontiff "will resign in 2020".

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1373375/pope-francis-resigns-christmas-vatican-benedict-christian-jesus-christ-midnight-mass-spt; 12/22/20, 8:54 PM
Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...: wait a minute-- is Patrick Byrne
really Steve Bannon with a shave and haircut??; 12/22/20, 9:00 PM
narciso said...: But thats not what we meant

https://mobile.twitter.com/ianmSC/status/1341492675191713794; 12/22/20, 9:01 PM
FullMoon said...: Feel free to add on..

Why does Althouse post things that don't interest me)

Why doesn't Althouse post about (current big deal)

I usually skip past ( so and so) but this time..

I usually don't respond to (so and so) but..

I never read (NYT, WaPo)

I canceled my subscription to (left wing rag) in 1977

Althouse finally gets it about (such and such)

Why is ( so and so ) still here?

(So and so) is here, I'm gonna read a book

Oh, great, another boring (so and so vs so and so ) thread

If it was me, I would have..

Why didn't they just.....?; 12/22/20, 9:05 PM
walter said...: LLR Chuck! carrying water for Pelosi...unexpectedly!
Chuck!'s "a one horse pony."
Chuck said...
"I am afraid you are mistaking me for someone who has an interest in fair treatment of Donald Trump. I'm not your guy. I am interested in smearing him, hurting him and prejudicing people against him."
3/4/16, 4:46 PM; 12/22/20, 9:07 PM
narciso said...: He set out 2,000 per person and sufficient monies for ppe; 12/22/20, 9:08 PM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: Hey
chuck - Will corrupt Pelois agree to remove all the garbage diversity and other waste & garbage from the bill she and her whores wrote?; 12/22/20, 9:16 PM
D. said...: Between now and Jan. 1 2021, the data dump on everything will be non-stop. Soften up the enemy positions before over taking them.; 12/22/20, 9:16 PM
Chuck said...: This is my favorite post-election story of 2020.

Reported brilliantly by Alex Kirshner for Slate.com; "How Offshore Oddsmakers Made a Killing off Gullible Trump Supporters."

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/12/trump-betting-markets-sportsbooks-offshore-2020-election-gambling.html

So U.S. laws prohibit commercial gaming operations from doing bookmaking on election outcomes. But offshore sportsbooks and oddsmakers can do it. And in 2020, it appears that gambling on Trump's re-election may have been the biggest gambling event in American history!

Some selected quotes from this fantastic article:
Offshore sportsbooks do not share detailed financials, but the 2020 election appears to have been the biggest online betting event in at least American history, to say nothing of what licensed bookmakers in Europe might have made...

“Everybody knows that the Super Bowl is the biggest bet event of the year by far, and this doubled the last two combined,” Mason says. “It was absolutely insane. Not only the amount of people betting it, but the big bets that were coming in. Five figures and even six-figure bets coming in on both sides. We’d never seen anything like it...”

For most of the year, Trump’s short odds to win (requiring bettors to risk more money for smaller winnings) were not a reflection of inside political knowledge, or of the oddsmakers being MAGA guys. Bookmakers were taking on so many Trump bets that they consistently tried to discourage people from betting on him.

“The Trump guys were just out in full force,” Mason says. “According to the true odds, they probably could’ve got a better price, but us and probably every other book kept it lower than it should, just because we were all so exposed on it...”

A few factors might explain the yearlong surge in pro-Trump bets. First, think about the median person who regularly engages in online betting. The stereotype that popped into your brain is probably correct.

“Trump supporters are loud,” Morrow says. “They love Trump in a way that most candidates are not beloved, but they also represent the demographic of a lot of sports bettors. These are people that are 18 to 45, generally white male...”

You don't even have to have been much invested, personally or financially, in the 2020 election. This story in Slate is just great writing about psychology, markets, gambling operations, and in the end, mass insanity.; 12/22/20, 9:16 PM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: Chuck - is your precious wealthy international pay to play money whore Nancy and liar going to remove all that garbage and pork from her bill?; 12/22/20, 9:17 PM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: Chuck - yeah - the poor saps lost all that money to the election fraud by your Party - the corruption machine that is the corrupocratic party.; 12/22/20, 9:19 PM
narciso said...: On the 1997th eve of the Lords birth this emerges; 12/22/20, 9:20 PM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: despite fake news CNN, The Party network NBC, etc.. and Big Brother Google - news is getting out that the pile of crap bill Nancy and her corrupt whores wrote is a steaming pile of fraud and waste.

A preview of the swamp filling, corruption, grift and waste we face. Chuck is delighted.; 12/22/20, 9:22 PM
Chuck said...: BidenFamilyTaxPayerFundedCrackPipe said...
Hey
chuck - Will corrupt Pelois agree to remove all the garbage diversity and other waste & garbage from the bill she and her whores wrote?

Hell, I dunno. I expect that she regards Trump's entire speech and proposal as unserious. I think she regards Trump as unserious now. Trump can go ahead and veto the bill if he doesn't like it, right? Or he can negotiate. He's a great negotiator, right? It'll be kind of weird, with Congress no longer in session.

Here's what I think; it's just going to be a colossal clusterfuck all the way as long as Trump has any involvement. What I am not sure about is whether there will be enough time to impeach Trump if he does veto the bill. Pretty sure that if he does veto it, Mitch McConnell and John Thune will both switch their votes to "convict" in the impeachment trial.; 12/22/20, 9:23 PM
Rt41Rebel said...: Chuck, I didn't read much of your post. Does it mention how Trump shot to 6:1 to win the election just before midnight on Nov 3rd?; 12/22/20, 9:23 PM
walter said...: Whitmer took the boot off casinos...for Chuck!
(All those emails); 12/22/20, 9:24 PM
mockturtle said...: too pooped to Pope??

:-D ICTA!; 12/22/20, 9:24 PM
Chuck said...: BidenFamilyTaxPayerFundedCrackPipe said...
Chuck - yeah - the poor saps lost all that money to the election fraud by your Party - the corruption machine that is the corrupocratic party.

I was sorely disappointed that I couldn't get John Henry up to $1000 on our election bet.; 12/22/20, 9:25 PM
Flat Tire said...: Thanks Mockturtle.; 12/22/20, 9:25 PM
Michael K said...: Chuck:

It's not that I find the idea of cutting pork and boosting stimulus direct payments to $2000 per person so objectionable; I just don't think that Trump is going to veto it. Trump likes bitching. He doesn't like working on legislation.

And of course your sucking up to Pelosi. More of your mind reading, Chuck. If only you had a mind.; 12/22/20, 9:27 PM
Chuck said...: Rt1Rebel said...
Chuck, I didn't read much of your post. Does it mention how Trump shot to 6:1 to win the election just before midnight on Nov 3rd?

Yes; and how Trump himself has been trumpeting that little factoid.

You should read the story.; 12/22/20, 9:27 PM
Michael K said...: I was sorely disappointed that I couldn't get John Henry up to $1000 on our election bet.

Yeah, you gotta pay off those MI election workers somehow.; 12/22/20, 9:28 PM
Rt41Rebel said...: "I was sorely disappointed that I couldn't get John Henry up to $1000 on our election bet."

Why? If I bet you $1 on that scam, I wouldn't pay you.; 12/22/20, 9:29 PM
Chuck said...: Michael K said...
Chuck:
"It's not that I find the idea of cutting pork and boosting stimulus direct payments to $2000 per person so objectionable; I just don't think that Trump is going to veto it. Trump likes bitching. He doesn't like working on legislation."

And of course your sucking up to Pelosi. More of your mind reading, Chuck. If only you had a mind.

You're angry. And people like me, are laughing at people like you. It's a near-perfect state of affairs, for my tastes.; 12/22/20, 9:30 PM
I'm Not Sure said...: "He doesn't like working on legislation."

Assuming this is true, do you suppose it's possible that's why he didn't run for office in the legislature?; 12/22/20, 9:30 PM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: smaller Chuck: I hate Trump so much - Nancy's waste and fraud are fine with Chuck!; 12/22/20, 9:30 PM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: Trump calls out vile Nancy and her parliament of whores:

Trump referenced the bill, which is more than 5,000 pages in length, that members of Congress failed to read before passing.

"It's called the COVID relief bill but it has almost nothing to do with COVID," he explained in his address. "This bill contains $85.5 million for assistance to Cambodia; $134 million to Burma; $1.3 billion for Egypt and Egyptian military, which will go out and buy almost exclusively Russian military equipment; $25 million for democracy and gender programs in Pakistan; $505 million to Beliza, Costa Rica, El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, Nicaragua and Panama; $40 million for the Kennedy Center in Washington, D.C., which is not even open for business; $1 billion for the Smithsonian and an additional $154 million for the National Gallery of Art; ... $7 million for reef fish management; $25 million to combat Asian carpe; $2.5 million to count the number of amberjack fish in the Gulf of Mexico, a provision to promote the breeding of fish in federal hatcheries; $3 million in poultry production technology; $2 million to study the impact of downed trees; $566 million for construction projects at the FBI."

Trump also took issue with a measure in the bill that allows illegal aliens to receive up to $1,800 in stimulus checks, a combo of the first and second relief bills.

"Despite all of this wasteful spending and much more, the $900 billion package provides hardworking taxpayers with only $600 each in relief pay," the president explained.

Chuck(D) - agrees with Nancy and her waste, fraud and garbage.; 12/22/20, 9:33 PM
Chuck said...: I'm Not Sure said...
"He doesn't like working on legislation."

Assuming this is true, do you suppose it's possible that's why he didn't run for office in the legislature?

Then just sign the damned bill, shut the fuck up, and get out of Washington for good. Which is being arranged at this moment.; 12/22/20, 9:33 PM
Rt41Rebel said...: "You're angry. And people like me, are laughing at people like you. It's a near-perfect state of affairs, for my tastes."

Keep laughing as long as you can. Tick tick tick....; 12/22/20, 9:34 PM
Birkel said...: Fopdoodles now support all the pork and are fully announcing their Leftism.
Why are fopdoodles always the last to know?; 12/22/20, 9:35 PM
I'm Full of Soup said...: Jupiter’s link at 6:24 Is must watch video. I suspect Althouse family friend, Ben Wicler, had a hand in the Wisconsin election lawlessness.; 12/22/20, 9:38 PM
I'm Not Sure said...: "Then just sign the damned bill..."

Why should he sign it?; 12/22/20, 9:39 PM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: Where's the money to educate health care workers on proper hygienic procedures?

The health care workers we so admire - many of them are the ones who transferred covid to the elderly in their nursing homes.; 12/22/20, 9:40 PM
Mike of Snoqualmie said...: Chuck is going to be mighty upset when Baseless Biden kills fracking and gas prices skyrocket to $5/gal. You were warned.; 12/22/20, 9:46 PM
Yancey Ward said...: Trump should veto the bill. If the argument is that the items Trump listed are part of the regular budget and not the stimulus, then that argument should fail immediately- the position is pretty fucking simple- money for Americans or money for foreigners. I would bet on that argument all day long.

The person above is right about all this foreign aid- it is all graft 100%.; 12/22/20, 9:48 PM
Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...: Tulsi Gabbard's new 'do sucks.

...and that
'Lily Munster' white streak doesnt help.; 12/22/20, 9:49 PM
narciso said...: Fracking is what kept prices low, after the drone strike on abquaiq, which palin had warned about 11 years earlier, as a reason why to expand exploration.; 12/22/20, 9:50 PM
mockturtle said...: Nursing assistants in nursing homes know proper hygienic procedure. The problem is, there is a lot of pressure to go to work sick, since they don't get paid otherwise. When my husband was in a NH there was a bout of norovirus running rampant through the establishment. The management blamed visitors but I knew it was staff coming to work sick [norovirus is actually contagious up to four days after cessation of symptoms]. So I took care of my husband myself and he was one of the few who didn't catch it.; 12/22/20, 9:50 PM
Birkel said...: Fopdoodle claims the moniker.; 12/22/20, 9:53 PM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: Grift indeed.

If you look under the rocks - I'd bet anything we would find that Nancy Pelosi and other democrats have children and family members connected to making millions in connection with all those various international money drops.

the democrat party is the swamp.; 12/22/20, 9:55 PM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: Chuck - shut up. You just said you want Trump to sign it.

Really - go F yourself.; 12/22/20, 9:56 PM
I'm Not Sure said...: "My current legislative hero is Justin Amash, and he hates this process. He probably hates most of the bill."

And you're bitching because Trump isn't signing it? Makes sense. *facepalm*; 12/22/20, 9:56 PM
Birkel said...: BFTPFCP:
The Swamp is bipartisan.
Veto proof majorities voted for this bull shit.
We need to face facts and realize the graft is bipartisan.
And we need to retake at least one of the political parties for the interests of Americans.; 12/22/20, 9:57 PM
narciso said...: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FFroMQlKiag; 12/22/20, 10:01 PM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: Birkel - who wrote the bill? It was Nancy and her parliament of whores. This crap originates in the House. The House of Nancy the Toxic.; 12/22/20, 10:01 PM
narciso said...: Thats school house rock where a generation of two learned 'how a bill becomes a law' and other matters.; 12/22/20, 10:03 PM
Birkel said...: I want Trump to hold the bill and pocket veto it.
The new Congress can vote again but after the bill becomes public knowledge.
Those 40 days would do wonders to educate the public and reveal the UniParty.
Trump is under no obligation to sign anything.

As for The Swamp:
McConnell is still holding pro forms sessions of Congress to keep Trump from making recess appointments.
McConnell is fully swampy and he's pushing this bill and keeping Trump from moving an anti-Swamp agenda.

And Trump respects the process well enough not to force the issue, like Obama did with Elizabeth Warren's CPFB Board.; 12/22/20, 10:04 PM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: Mock-T

I understand the nursing staff is under pressure and often under staffed. Many work multiple jobs at different facilities. I think hygiene is part of it (for some and some do not get it) - and yeah - they should never be encouraged to arrive while sick.

I typed something out but blogger ate it.; 12/22/20, 10:04 PM
Birkel said...: This bill was written by donors with almost no involvement by House members.
The K-Street types told the politicians how they were being bribed and that was all they needed to know.

McConnell stays bought.; 12/22/20, 10:06 PM
The Crack Emcee said...: “The lesson is to energetically cultivate ‘Fuck You.’”

(No it's not); 12/22/20, 10:13 PM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: Chuck - who wrote the bill?; 12/22/20, 10:14 PM
John henry said...: So it wasn't you who sent me the anonymous $30,Dick?

John Henry; 12/22/20, 10:15 PM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: Chuck - who loves him some Nancy and some Biden - is suddenly concerned about... the swamp.; 12/22/20, 10:16 PM
Rt41Rebel said...: I agree with Chuck, Trump should encourage Nancy Palsy to rewrite the bill that spends twice as much on pork and gives every American $100,000. Illegal aliens get $200,000. Really fuck this country over good and hard. Really fuck it up. We deserve it. Dems deserve it. Right Chuck?; 12/22/20, 10:18 PM
Drago said...: BidenFamilyTaxPayerFundedCrackPipe: "Birkel - who wrote the bill? It was Nancy and her parliament of whores"

That's precisely why LLR-lefty Chuck has come out so strongly for Nancy and Team Den on this....and all things.

Remember, it was just last week that LLR-lefty Chuck came out and endorsed the openly marxist democratical GA Senate candidate.

LLR-lefty Chuck is simply following in the footsteps of his fellow pro-marxist Lincoln Projecteers who have sent open love letters to AOC and her radical followers via twitter and have fully aligned with the far left.; 12/22/20, 10:20 PM
iowan2 said...: Why feed the retarded troll?; 12/22/20, 10:20 PM
walter said...: Chuck said...

Birkel said...
Fopdoodles now support all the pork and are fully announcing their Leftism.
Why are fopdoodles always the last to know?

I never once expressed my preferences about what is in, or not in, the bill. My current legislative hero is Justin Amash, and he hates this process. He probably hates most of the bill.

I'm not saying that I support or don't support the details.
--
i.e. I am a weasel..classic Chuck!; 12/22/20, 10:20 PM
narciso said...: Yes its tiring, he should go over to the good prosecutors place

https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/elections/tue-cybersecurity-agency-where-trump-fired-boss-was-flagged-repeatedly; 12/22/20, 10:21 PM
narciso said...: Like i said it reminds me of the cyberpunk 2077 roll out.; 12/22/20, 10:23 PM
Birkel said...: Fopdoodles believe the 5600 page monstrosity was "negotiated" by people in Congress and Mnuchin.
And here I type believe to mean "pretends the lies have any chance of being true" for the sake of accuracy.

Nancy passed the bill to find out what was in it, again.
All she knew was which cutouts were for her people to steal and which for other politicians.
She trusts her paymasters to treat her squarely after decades of staying bought.
Same as McConnell.; 12/22/20, 10:23 PM
narciso said...: Its a game that mostly unplayable because there are glitches everywhere. Makes ataris et a masterpiece by comparison

So they stuffed this thing full of junk because its not like you need an incentive to vote for the basic package.; 12/22/20, 10:28 PM
Qwinn said...: Chuck is now pretending that Trump "should have interfered" im the bill before it was passed, as if Chuck wouldn't have found a way to call that the worst thing in the world too.

Chuck would rather we not talk about the WI judge who declared over 200,000 votes in WI as violating the law and invalid.

Kinda puts yet another crimp in the "not one judge agrees" lie.

But Chuck doesn't care if there were 200,000 invalid votes, as long as they were for Biden.

Chuck: "Fraudulent or not, if Trump loses, it's a win for me."; 12/22/20, 10:30 PM
Drago said...: BidenFamilyTaxPayerFundedCrackPipe: "Chuck - who loves him some Nancy and some Biden - is suddenly concerned about... the swamp."

You will find that the more passionately LLR-lefty Chuck embraces far left policies and defends all democraticals at all times and at all levels the more he will hilariously layer on what he believes to be conservative buzzwords that he thinks will sway actual conservatives.

This was most amusingly demonstrated when our pro-marxist LLR-lefty Chuck went toe to toe with Meade on border security when Meade began to peel back on LLR-lefty Chuck's completely open border pro-dem policy position even as LLR-lefty Chuck kept screaming that he actually believed in "strong" border controls...

...just not a wall..

...and just not detaining illegals at the border....

...and just not making illegals turn up for their hearings....

...and just not making it harder to employ illegals....

...and just not ever having mechanisms to return illegals to their nations of origins...

As each of these true LLR-lefty Chuck positions was exposed LLR-lefty Chuck would desperately and angrily add another "very" to his self-description of his open border policy position, to the point where LLR-lefty Chuck eventually described his completely open border position as a "very very very very very strong border control" policy.

LOL

Truly a LLR-lefty Chuck classic.; 12/22/20, 10:31 PM
Churchy LaFemme: said...: When Churchill became First Lord of the Admiralty (approx 'Secretary of the Navy') there was no British equivalent to Annapolis. He wrote:

But it takes a generation to form a General Staff. No wave of the wand can create those habits of mind in seniors on which the efficiency and even the reality of a Staff depends. Young officers can be trained, but thereafter they have to rise step by step in the passage of time to positions of authority in the Service. The dead weight of professional opinion was adverse. They had got on well enough without it before. They did not want a special class of officer professing to be more brainy than the rest. Sea-time should be the main qualification, and next to that technical aptitudes. Thus when I went to the Admiralty I found that there was no moment in the career and training of a naval officer, when he was obliged to read a single book about naval war, or pass even the most rudimentary examination in naval history. The Royal Navy had made no important contribution to Naval literature. The standard work on Sea Power was written by an American Admiral.[8] The best accounts of British sea fighting and naval strategy were compiled by an English civilian.[9] ‘The Silent Service’ was not mute because it was absorbed in thought and study, but because it was weighted down by its daily routine and by its ever complicating and diversifying technique. We had competent administrators, brilliant experts of every description, unequalled navigators, good disciplinarians, fine sea-officers, brave and devoted hearts: but at the outset of the conflict we had more captains of ships than captains of war. In this will be found the explanation of many untoward events. At least fifteen years of consistent policy were required to give the Royal Navy that widely extended outlook upon war problems and of war situations without which seamanship, gunnery, instrumentalisms of every kind, devotion of the highest order, could not achieve their due reward.

Fifteen years! And we were only to have thirty months!; 12/22/20, 10:31 PM
Birkel said...: Qwinn:
I prefer "they stole it fair and square" because it captures precisely the corruption and why we owe it no respect whatsoever.; 12/22/20, 10:32 PM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: Well Drago - You are the expert on Chuck. I bow to the expert.

Seems to me that Chuck is full-blown lefty now. Corruption, fraud, warts and all.
Toxic Nancy and her whores - democrats stuffing their pockets with ill gotten gains. Chuck is kool-aid with it - as long as someone is stabbing Trump somewhere.; 12/22/20, 10:36 PM
Drago said...: LLR-lefty Chuck: "My current legislative hero is Justin Amash, and he hates this process. He probably hates most of the bill."

Justin Amash is completely owned by the ChiComs.

Thats just one reason why LLR-lefty Chuck supports him.

The second reason LLR-lefty Chuck adores Amash is that Amash couldn't win a race for dogcatcher and Amash "courageously" dropped his reelection bid when it became obvious to Amash's republican constituents that he was useless.; 12/22/20, 10:37 PM
walter said...: 12/22/2020 | 9:30 PM ET

ATLANTA – After spending weeks disputing claims of election fraud in Georgia, Voting Implementation Manager Gabriel Sterling took to Twitter Tuesday afternoon to share that the previous owner of his home cast a ballot during presidential election.

“The woman I bought my home from over 2 yrs ago trying to vote from it absentee. I’ve filed official challenge to stop her from casting an apparently illegal vote. Not a glitch, she signed an oath stating she lives here to vote. That’s a false swearing,” wrote Sterling.

He added, “Illegal voting is how I’d classify it. Fraud implies a greater conspiracy. Another irony, Fair Fight sent her a reminder to get the absentee she requested in quickly. They sent it to her name…my address. The Fulton Elections Board has acted and stated that my challenge to the qualifications of the woman attempting to vote from the house I purchased from her 2 years ago meets probable cause.”; 12/22/20, 10:40 PM
Rt41Rebel said...: "I prefer "they stole it fair and square" because it captures precisely the corruption and why we owe it no respect whatsoever."

They stole it exactly in the order predicted and prescribed.

Soap Box
Ballot Box
Jury Box

One box left... Fortunately it's a big box that we control. Tick tick tick...; 12/22/20, 10:40 PM
Drago said...: Pro-marxist dem supporting LLR-lefty Chuck: "F*** off, Drago. Apart from my saying that Trump's "Wall" idea was idiotic, would never be built and Mexico would never pay for it, not one of your purported claims is attributable to me.
As usual, you don't quote me, and don't link to anything that I actually wrote."

Meade called you out and every layer of your FakeCon "pro-strong border security" lies was hilariously exposed for everyone to see.

Seriously, you should stay away from policy discussions since your FakeCon lies are no longer sustainable on any level and you should simply stick to what you do best: defending democraticals everywhere.

No other Althouse lefty can begin to compare with you when it comes to democratical suck-up-ery.

You set the standard.; 12/22/20, 10:42 PM
Birkel said...: To be fair to Amash, the Chinese are comparison shoppers and he was cheap.
The Biden clan was cheap too.
McConnell gave significant concessions off the sticker price.
Romney was comparatively expensive.

All that pales in comparison for the bargain the Chinese got when they bought Mark Cuban and the rest of the NBA.
Disney is on an installment payment plan with an option to buy.; 12/22/20, 10:43 PM
narciso said...: There was a dartmouth naval college of 1905, so they off by 50 years.; 12/22/20, 10:45 PM
steve uhr said...: 30; 12/22/20, 10:48 PM
Drago said...: LLR-lefty Chuck's actual completely open border policy position is consistent with his many other far left policy positions.

Recall how viciously angry LLR-lefty Chuck became when republicans were attacking obamacare and the lies Chuck's beloved democraticals used to sell that BS to the nation.

LLR-lefty Chuck spent months and months weeping on Althouse blog about how those horrible republicans were "sabotaging" the signature legislation passed by Chuck's earthly "magnificent" messiah obama.; 12/22/20, 10:50 PM
narciso said...: Its like pete rose judging a match

https://www.realclearenergy.org/articles/2020/12/21/chinas_green_ngo_climate_propaganda_enablers_654042.html; 12/22/20, 10:51 PM
Birkel said...: China wants all the countries in the world to be equal.
And beneath China.
International communism, they believe, is in full flower.; 12/22/20, 10:54 PM
narciso said...: Maybe they need a refresher course from dartmouth

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/world/1375837/south-china-sea-news-us-war-spratly-islands-beijing-xi-jinping-trump-taiwan-ww3-ont/amp; 12/22/20, 10:55 PM
Churchy LaFemme: said...: There was a dartmouth naval college of 1905, so they off by 50 years.

Yes, but apparently not what he meant as described in "APPENDIX A: MEMORANDUM BY THE FIRST LORD ON NAVAL STAFF TRAINING AND DEVELOPMENTM" here; 12/22/20, 10:59 PM
Drago said...: By the way, if you want to see what a twitter-based "worship a marxist" exercise looks like, pull up LLR-lefty Chuck's "hero" Steve Schmidts public self-degrading perfornance in basically begging AOC to please, please please let him be relevant!!

LOL

I havent seen a collapse like that since Romney "proudly" surrendered in his patented cowardly fashion to obama and Candy Crowley in front of live global audience.; 12/22/20, 11:00 PM
Birkel said...: "...the 5,593 page bill allows the Department of Homeland Security and Labor Department to “increase the total number of aliens” hired under H-2B foreign visas..."

What the UniParty wants is the ability to crush the uppity middle class and its claims on their time.; 12/22/20, 11:02 PM
narciso said...: Well there was certainly a gap

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Naval_Academy; 12/22/20, 11:08 PM
John henry said...: How long?

Until the event of the bet takes place.

The bet is on wh gets inaugurated next month.

I don't expect you to pay off beforehand, though I offered you an opportunity.

I won't either, and don't expect to have to after inauguration day.

I note you don't deny it was you who sent me the $30

I've said before I didn't think it was but now you are causing doubts.

John Henry; 12/22/20, 11:13 PM
narciso said...: This is how you do it

https://mobile.twitter.com/seanmdav/status/1341581469630738433; 12/22/20, 11:19 PM
Rt41Rebel said...: The ultimate insult is that all of our taxes are going up by WAY MORE than $600. Dems think they are so clever. Tick Tick Tick...; 12/22/20, 11:20 PM
narciso said...: Everything is done the bizarro way in california following the arc all the way to virginia

https://mobile.twitter.com/mattwridley/status/1341522319370563586; 12/22/20, 11:22 PM
John henry said...: Re paying for the wall

In September Mexico signed an agreement with the US that the Mexico govt would pay the repair cost for any damage to the wall caused by illegal crossers.

I believe the process is we fix it and send Mexico the bill.

That's pretty direct.

As for the cost of the wall itself, that comes out of Mexico indirectly via concessions on the renegotiated NAFTA.

John Henry; 12/22/20, 11:23 PM
narciso said...: Funny how this wasnt harped on endlessly

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/great-actor-warnocks-wife-domestic-dispute.amp; 12/22/20, 11:24 PM
narciso said...: If you fell for this...

https://apelbaum.wordpress.com/2020/12/21/study-in/; 12/22/20, 11:26 PM
narciso said...: Now we're cooking with gas

Trump's order eliminates the ability of the CIA or other intelligence community agencies from exercising a veto over whether documents or info they generated may be presented to a grand jury empaneled by John Durham to investigate the Russia hoax.
Quote Tweet
Sean Davis
@seanmdav
· 7h
The White House announced today that Trump signed an order on Dec. 18 giving John Durham the authority to present classified information to a grand jury investigating the Russian collusion hoax.

Previous DOJ regulations required the consent of the specific classifying agency.; 12/22/20, 11:33 PM
Joe Smith said...: Re: The Covid pork boondoggle bill.

Do you know why they do this?

Because they can.

Because they know that they can fuck us all in the ass sideways and we won’t burn down their shithole cities.

For now…; 12/22/20, 11:33 PM
Ralph L said...: The actual quote was "rum, BUGGERY, and the lash."

Someone quoted that on CSPAN Booknotes, and Brian Lamb asked him what buggery was. I'm not sure if he didn't know or was just a good interviewer as usual.; 12/22/20, 11:34 PM
narciso said...: Well the first is how they go to the third, the second is how you cut down on both; 12/22/20, 11:36 PM
narciso said...: Its an idea after all

https://mobile.twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1341475189146718208; 12/22/20, 11:38 PM
narciso said...: Elementary

Ayn Oregon court has denied an anti-SLAPP motion filed against Andy Ngo by one of his alleged attackers, stating that punching someone in the stomach is not an act that furthers free speech.”
Andy Ngo’s lawsuit against Antifa in Portland continues after anti-SLAPP motion struck down - Rebel...
rebelnews.com
3:06 PM · Dec 22, 2020·Twitter for iPhone
572
Retweets
14
Quote Tweets
2.8K
Likes; 12/22/20, 11:44 PM
Rt41Rebel said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 12/22/20, 11:57 PM
Rt41Rebel said...: Notes to Chuck:

--Trump somehow convinced Mexico to enforce the border with their own military.

--If you advertise that you're not giving welfare, medicaid, education, food stamps, legal aid, and stimulus checks to illegals, you don't need to build a wall.; 12/22/20, 11:58 PM
n.n said...: Trump somehow convinced Mexico to enforce the border with their own military.

Mexico also has a compelling interest to mitigate immigration reform and normalize emigration reform.; 12/23/20, 12:20 AM
J. Farmer said...: So, folks, what exactly is the optimistic scenario for the future? How does the current polarization resolve itself? What is the American nation?

It's painfully obvious the cleavages in our society are not over policy differences. Paul Ryan may have been "dreaming" of cutting Medicaid in college, but I guaran fucking tee people are not motivated to go to the polls because they have strong opinions on block granting Medicaid. It's culture that separates us. A different set of values. A different understanding of what we were, who we are, and where we're going. You don't want to adopt their values, and they don't want to adopt yours. So now what?

American culture is peculiar in that in aggregate Americans claim to highly value traditionalism and individualism. That's a hard circle to square since the entire point of tradition is to constrain individualism. It's a little bit like voluntary uniforms. Traditionalists want to follow a cleared, proven, well-traveled path through the jungle. Individualists want to hack their own path through the jungle.; 12/23/20, 1:29 AM
jrapdx said...: Farmer says: "Traditionalists want to follow a cleared, proven, well-traveled path through the jungle. Individualists want to hack their own path through the jungle."

It's not that simple. In American individualism IS a tradition that traditionalists respect. This goes back to the "old west" which is really not that old.

Growing up in Arizona barely 40 years after it as admitted to the Union there were many vestiges of the frontier past still visible. There were cowboys around still plying their trades and the ethos of survival on one's own in a harsh desert environment. Those were traditions in my youth that echo in today's American traditionalism.

Of course there are innumerable flavors of "tradition" in America, but to a great degree Americans like to think of themselves as making up their own minds, they value individualism and resent it when others point out their conformity.

In my observation, even obvious conformists react with surprising strength when pushed too hard by arbiters of nominally "correct" (or traditional) behavior (including what they should think or feel). American social norms encode rewards for those who evince "I did it my way" attitudes.; 12/23/20, 2:26 AM
D.D. Driver said...: "It's not that simple. In American individualism IS a tradition that traditionalists respect."

It's almost comical that people can view America through a collectivist lens. In America we delevoped aviation. We sent people to the moon. We developed personal computing and the internet.

Don't forget (everyone already has) that it was an American in Gaithersburg, Maryland who was annoyed at how long it was taking for a global team taking to sequence the human genome. So he founded a company and did it himself. In 18 months. When the world was on fire, Americans developed a vaccine in a matter of months.

Americans developed cinema as an artform and somebody figure out for me how many different genres of music.

It is hilarious to think we accomplished this because we followed a "proven, well-traveled path through the jungle."; 12/23/20, 3:25 AM
Big Mike said...: Fortunately it's a big box that we control.

You haven’t tried to buy ammo lately.; 12/23/20, 3:26 AM
Gahrie said...: So, folks, what exactly is the optimistic scenario for the future? How does the current polarization resolve itself? What is the American nation?

We restore our federal republic by returning power to the states, and repeal the 17th Amendment (19th would be nice too, but that's probably not going to happen.); 12/23/20, 3:39 AM
Clyde said...: Heard on the news yesterday that the bill must be signed by January 3rd when this Congress adjourns in order to become law. Trump has ten business days, not counting Sundays, to sign it. If he doesn’t sign it within the ten-day period, it automatically becomes law anyway. But... That means the bill must be on his desk TODAY, December 23, to start that clock ticking, which it probably won’t be. Otherwise, he can just stick it in his pocket and exercise the so-called pocket veto. I’m sure the Democrats think that he wouldn’t dare do that. Maybe he should.; 12/23/20, 3:58 AM
exhelodrvr1 said...: "Traditionalists want to follow a cleared, proven, well-traveled path through the jungle. Individualists want to hack their own path through the jungle."

Individualists are fine with following a cleared, proven, well-traveled path through the jungle as long as it will get them to where they want to go. But they aren't afraid to leave that path if doing so provides a potentially better route.; 12/23/20, 4:41 AM
J. Farmer said...: Just watched the Trump covid relief video. It was a 4-minute encapsulation of everything that frustrates me about Trump. As is so often the case with Trump, it's one step forward and two steps back.

"Despite all of this wasteful spending and much more, the $900 billion package provides hardworking taxpayers with only $600 each in relief payments and not enough money is given to small businesses."

"Congress found plenty of money for foreign countries, lobbyists and special interests while sending the bare minimum to the American people who need it."

"I am asking Congress to amend this bill and increase the ridiculously low $600 to $2,000 or $4,000 for a couple."

That's Trumpism. If Trump actually understood Trumpism, the White House should've been way ahead of this, when it actually mattered. He should have taken both parties to ask over the issue. This is a PR stunt done in the service of Trump's image.

"Democrats cruelly blocked COVID relief legislation in an effort to advance their extreme left wing agenda and influence the election."

This is Trumpist. This is the stuff that plays well in the right-wing media ecosystem. You can just imagine the nitwits on Fox & Friends or The Five talking about how Democrats want to give money to Pakistan but only $600 to Americans.

Meanwhile, Tea Party douchebag Ron Johnson twice rejected proposals to increase the direct payments from $600 to $1,200, citing concerns over "our children’s future.” Fucking dickwad.; 12/23/20, 5:17 AM
J. Farmer said...: @exhelodrvr1:

Individualists are fine with following a cleared, proven, well-traveled path through the jungle as long as it will get them to where they want to go. But they aren't afraid to leave that path if doing so provides a potentially better route.

I completely agree with you. I should have said they "want [the option] to hack their own path through the jungle."; 12/23/20, 5:20 AM
J. Farmer said...: @jrapdx:

Of course there are innumerable flavors of "tradition" in America, but to a great degree Americans like to think of themselves as making up their own minds, they value individualism and resent it when others point out their conformity.

I am not referring to traditionalism as merely the passing on of traditions but rather the notion that moral order must be grounded in a transcendent source. That is, it cannot be arrived out or supported by human reasoning alone.; 12/23/20, 5:45 AM
Rusty said...: walter said...
"Whitmer took the boot off casinos...for Chuck!
(All those emails)"
My older brother lives in Stevensville. Every six weeks or so we my younger brother and I visit him and his wife and take them to lunch. The Culvers that we ate at six weeks before that allowed indoor dining at selected tables did allow any indoor dining this week. So being my usual curious fun loving self I did an impromptu not very accurate survey of every Michigander I came across. About two dozen people. Yes I wore a mask. Without exception the Michiganders I talked to were vehemently anti Whitmer. A lot of "fuck her"s. The kind of response you think you'll get from, say, a gun store, but I was asking Drs.; 12/23/20, 6:05 AM
J. Farmer said...: @D.D. Driver:

It's almost comical that people can view America through a collectivist lens. In America we delevoped aviation. We sent people to the moon. We developed personal computing and the internet.

All human societies are "collectivist." We're an interdependent species. Contra Hobbes, there has never been a time in human history that was a "war of all against all." The story of human history is group versus group.

It is hilarious to think we accomplished this because we followed a "proven, well-traveled path through the jungle."

Sure. It wasn't as if the Founding Fathers were obsessed with Ancient Rome or influenced by classical Republicanism, and I can't imagine why the pseudonym "Publius" was chosen by the authors of the Federalist Papers.; 12/23/20, 6:10 AM
donald said...: Civil war is the “optimistic scenario”.

I have informed my accountant, because for whatever reason I still have one, that I won’t be needing him anymore. No 1099’s, no 1040’s. That shit is OVAH. Step two is completed.; 12/23/20, 6:37 AM
Breezy said...: Nancy Pelosi is a gaslight factory.; 12/23/20, 6:47 AM
mockturtle said...: I am not referring to traditionalism as merely the passing on of traditions but rather the notion that moral order must be grounded in a transcendent source. That is, it cannot be arrived out or supported by human reasoning alone.

Because God is a lot wiser than we are. Man's conceit is exceeded only by his arrogance.; 12/23/20, 7:02 AM
Rusty said...: "Seems to me that Chuck is full-blown lefty now."
He was never not one.
" Corruption, fraud, warts and all."
Chuck is the swamp. His livelyhood depends being able to grift the public coffers. Look at any progressive on this site. Nearly all of them are on the public payroll in one way or another.That is why they hate Trump. Trump made it much harder for them to grift the system.; 12/23/20, 7:12 AM
Francisco D said...: The idea of giving people money from the government (to make up for income losses due to the WuFlu) is basically forcing grandchildren to give money to their grandparents.; 12/23/20, 7:47 AM
J. Farmer said...: @Josephbleau:

Remember in fiction where the industrialist sits in his walnut paneled office in his Hudson Valley estate and hears rumors that his evil plan is in danger. “I’ll call ‘my’ senator on this, it’s about time I got some use of the stinking slug for all the money he costs.” That senator was Joe Biden.

Such scenarios make for good drama but are not really the way money in politics operates. It's much more diffuse than merely a quid pro quo

@donald:

Civil war is the “optimistic scenario”.

But what form do you expect that to take? Who is going to be shooting at who over what?; 12/23/20, 8:06 AM
mockturtle said...: Such scenarios make for good drama but are not really the way money in politics operates. It's much more diffuse than merely a quid pro quo

Unless you're Harry Reid.; 12/23/20, 8:08 AM
Achilles said...: J. Farmer said...

American culture is peculiar in that in aggregate Americans claim to highly value traditionalism and individualism. That's a hard circle to square since the entire point of tradition is to constrain individualism. It's a little bit like voluntary uniforms. Traditionalists want to follow a cleared, proven, well-traveled path through the jungle. Individualists want to hack their own path through the jungle.

The traditionalism was the individualism.

The traditionalism was individual responsibility.

The traditionalism was protecting the weirdo that cut his own path.

The traditionalism was a privately funded social safety net that worked better than a publicly funded one.; 12/23/20, 8:12 AM
J. Farmer said...: The idea of giving people money from the government (to make up for income losses due to the WuFlu) is basically forcing grandchildren to give money to their grandparents.

Not quite. It's more like forcing some great-great-great...-grandchild in the indeterminate future.; 12/23/20, 8:16 AM
Birkel said...: Smug defines away collectivism to mean humans work together to accomplish things.
But that is a wave of the hand doing too much work.

Individualism allows for coordinated efforts through privately negotiated, non-coerced mutual agreement.
That two people agree of their own free will to organize their efforts to accomplish a greater benefit for both of them stands firmly within the American tradition.

Collectivism (large C) involves state coercion and threat of force.

But Smug knew that and was sloppy.
Or deceitful.; 12/23/20, 8:18 AM
Achilles said...: J. Farmer said...

But what form do you expect that to take? Who is going to be shooting at who over what?

In Afghanistan if a cell phone company was perceived the wrong way by the Taliban then all their cell towers got broken.

If a town didn't pay the protection food didn't get in.

The electrical grid in Khandahar had to avoid certain areas.

Low Trust societies are very predictable. Private security is going to be a hot business.

But I would not rule out 10 million people descending on DC either. I don't think the DC elite on either side have any friends anywhere except for a few ritzy neighborhoods like the Hamptons or Potero Hill.; 12/23/20, 8:20 AM
Birkel said...: You're both wrong RE: future generations.
Fewer children will be born because parents rationally calculate the lives they might otherwise bring into being will not be better than previous generations and so parents will forego the creation of new life.

That will hasten the problems.
I suspect we will see financial collapse of the current system within my lifetime.
But not the lifetime of Nancy Pelosi or Chuck Schumer.; 12/23/20, 8:21 AM
Birkel said...: Correction: would-be parents; 12/23/20, 8:22 AM
Achilles said...: Francisco D said...

The idea of giving people money from the government (to make up for income losses due to the WuFlu) is basically forcing grandchildren to give money to their grandparents.

That isn't how any of this works.

Wealth = Productivity.

Period.

There are some arguments over how it is distributed but they are marginal differences. This idea of future debt is silly when you can buy a house with free money.

Our government is investing in debt and false promises. A smart investor would take note of this. I am investing in a Chicken Farm.; 12/23/20, 8:23 AM
Achilles said...: I will pay for that investment probably with a credit card.; 12/23/20, 8:26 AM
Achilles said...: Periodic bankruptcies and name changes will become a thing.; 12/23/20, 8:29 AM
Bruce Hayden said...: “I am not referring to traditionalism as merely the passing on of traditions but rather the notion that moral order must be grounded in a transcendent source. That is, it cannot be arrived out or supported by human reasoning alone”

“Because God is a lot wiser than we are. Man's conceit is exceeded only by his arrogance.”

One problem I see is the determination of who gets to determine what human reasoning has determined by reasoning alone? In this country it is the elite, many of whom seem to have limited loyalty to this country over all others. For example, the transgender movement is idiotic. 99% of the population is fine with their god given gender assignment, .9% are confused, and .1% (all wild asset estimates) are misaligned. Maybe. So, we are now allowing the use of hormone blocking drugs for kids that often cause permanent sterility, and even maybe brain damage, because they are, well, kids, and are years away from the judgment areas of their brains being fully formed. Or their mother just wanted a kid of a different gender.

Maybe there is a god. Much of mankind believes that to be so. But much of our religious morality is not based on pronouncements by that deity, or his Prophets (e.g. Islam, LDS), but rather the weight of centuries of societal experience. For example, we consider slavery to be evil, though no doubt Pelosi has some money stashed in her latest COVID “relief” bill for some societies around the world still practicing it. But overall, around the world, unless it is the slavery implicit in a communist regime, it is almost uniformly condemned. Yet, Jesus, two millennia ago, mostly spoke as if it were just a fact of nature. And then, for most Christians, our scriptures were effectively coded almost that long ago.

Heck, Paul only spoke of limiting bishops and deacons to one wife, not everyone else, implying an acceptance of polygamy for the rest of society. It may have made some sense, in an era of high maternal or even paternal (LDS) mortality. But in modern times, it is very disruptive, and one of the likely examples of this is Islam, where their Prophet’s love of young female pulchritude may be part of the reason their societies tend to be so violent, with every 2nd (etc) wife for some rich guy, meaning no wife for some other guy.

How do we identify a viable, if not societally advantageous, morality, if not through long term experience? We can’t trust the ballot box, because, as we saw so vividly in early November, they can be, and are, stuffed. And the stuffing then justified by reference to a higher morality (the same sort of “higher morality” that the swamp dwellers have used for the last four years to try to destroy the Trump Administration from within). The motivations of our societal betters are always suspect, esp when, as we have seen so visibly, they are often so mundane: money and power. Why should we accept their determinations of societal morals? Why should we eliminate our national borders, and allow millions of ignorant uneducated peasants entry into our country, when many of them don’t have the minimum education or language fluency to do most jobs in our country? The ostensible reason is supposedly some sort of social justice. The real reason is that Dem politicians are importing new Dem voters, whose loyalty is being purchased by the national treasury (and why illegals are apparently receiving 2X-3X what citizens are in Pelosi’s new COVID relief bill).; 12/23/20, 8:32 AM
mockturtle said...: But overall, around the world, unless it is the slavery implicit in a communist regime, it is almost uniformly condemned. Yet, Jesus, two millennia ago, mostly spoke as if it were just a fact of nature.

Can you quote that for me, Bruce?; 12/23/20, 8:55 AM
Michael K said...: That's Trumpism. If Trump actually understood Trumpism, the White House should've been way ahead of this, when it actually mattered. He should have taken both parties to ask over the issue. This is a PR stunt done in the service of Trump's image.

You still don't understand. At noon yesterday, Dana Perino on Fox announced he would sign the bill. He is ONE MAN. The entire government, aside from a few loyalists, hates and tries to stop him.

"Daddy, are we there yet?"; 12/23/20, 8:57 AM
Michael K said...: Blogger Howard said...
Nobody likes the bill except congress and their contributors.

True. That "Stiff Upper Lip" comment must have come from your id.; 12/23/20, 9:08 AM
Bruce Hayden said...: Going on a bit - one of the things that we have seen so vividly over the last 9-10 months is the rank hypocrisy of our betters. They require that we wear masks, but get caught going without themselves. They determine what businesses are non essential, and should be shut down for us, but not for them. They determine that we shouldn’t travel to see family over the holidays, then do so themselves. Etc.

We aren’t talking morality here, but the use of raw power, in the name of some higher morality, that in the end is inevitably just their desire to wield power. But maybe more worrisome is that the way that the rich and powerful show that they are better than the rest of us is by violating social norms, and getting away with it. Who would really want a 50,000 sq ft house, except to show that you have it, and don’t have to take care of it yourself? Multiple expensive houses? Big enough pain for us to have two modest houses - I can’t envision wanting another one. I used to dress a lot like Bill Gates does (I have over a dozen Navy sports coats), but dress more these days like the billionaires living in WY by the Teatons (and even drive the beater pickup, when I could afford a new one every year). Which is why we come back to the ability to transgress societal norms as one of the ways to show wealth and power.

Our shared, long term, morality, says that pedophilia is evil. As a society, we need to protect our children against adults. It isn’t just prepubescents, but also young postpubescents, who need protection, because they are still naive and the judgement centers of their brains have yet to fully mature. Yet, post pubescent pedophilia is fast becoming mainstreamed, as one of our ex Presidents has been seen in multiple photos with women younger than his daughter, accompanying the late Jeffrey Epstein on his Lolita Express. You and I can’t diddle underaged women because it is illegal. But Bill Clinton, etc, can, because they are rich and powerful. How better to show that you are rich and powerful, than being able to violate laws against immorality with impunity?

But one of the real dangers here is that morality then becomes a moving target. My parter recently discovered TCM, dedicated to showing classic movies, where married couples still sleep in separate beds. Etc. Now, not only are straight couples shown in bed together, but so are gay couples. Little gay humping action yet, but it is common now for straight couples in movies. A bit over twenty years, Monica Lewinsky attracted the attention of Bill Clinton by exposing her thong. That quickly became passé. The next step was not wearing underwear at all, and we had celebrities is short skirts giving beaver shots to the Paparazzi when they would get out of their limos when going clubbing. We are seeing a race to the bottom, because when one notch down becomes accepted, the rich and powerful have to go another notch in order to shock everyone, and, getting away with it, demonstrating their power and wealth.; 12/23/20, 9:23 AM
J. Farmer said...: @Birkel:

Collectivism (large C) involves state coercion and threat of force.

But Smug knew that and was sloppy.
Or deceitful.

Or, "Collectivism (large C)" is not what I was talking about. I am not talking about collectivism as a set of cultural values regarding the relationship of group needs to the individual needs of its members. When we talk about Japanese or Koreans being more "collectivist" than Americans, we're not comparing our economic systems.; 12/23/20, 9:39 AM
Bruce Hayden said...: ¨Can you quote that for me, Bruce?”

Wikipedia (I know, not the most definitive source...)The Bible and slavery

Bible.

Gospels
The Bible claims that Jesus healed the ill slave of a centurion[86] and restored the cut off ear of the high priest's slave.[87] In his parables, Jesus referenced slavery: the prodigal son,[88] ten gold coins,[89] unforgiving tenant,[90] and tenant farmers.[91] Jesus' teaching on slavery was metaphorical: spiritual slavery,[92] a slave having two masters (God and mammon),[93] slavery to God,[94] acting as a slave toward others,[95] and the greatest among his disciples being the least of them.[96] Jesus also taught that he would give burdened and weary laborers rest.[97] The Passion narratives are interpreted by the Catholic church as a fulfillment of the Suffering Servant songs in Isaiah.[98]

Jesus' view of slavery compares the relationship between God and humankind to that of a master and his slaves. Three instances where Jesus communicates this view include:

Matthew 18:21-35: Jesus' Parable of the Unmerciful Servant, wherein Jesus compares the relationship between God and humankind to that of a master and his slaves. Jesus offers the story of a master selling a slave along with his wife and children.

Matthew 20:20-28: A series of remarks wherein Jesus recognizes it is necessary to be a slave to be "first" among the deceased entering heaven.

Matthew 24:36-51: Jesus' Parable of the Faithful Servant, wherein Jesus again compares the relationship between God and humankind to that of a master and his slaves.

Epistles
In Paul's letters to the Ephesians, Paul motivates early Christian slaves to remain loyal and obedient to their masters like they are to Christ. Ephesians 6:5-8 Paul states, “Slaves, be obedient to your human masters with fear and trembling, in sincerity of heart, as to Christ” which is Paul instructing slaves to obey their master.[99] Similar statements regarding obedient slaves can be found in Colossians 3:22-24, 1 Timothy 6:1-2, and Titus 2:9-10.[100][101][102] In Col 4:1 Paul advises members of the church, who are slave masters, to "treat your slaves justly and fairly, realizing that you too have a Master in heaven.”[103] Adding to Paul's advice to masters and slaves, he uses slavery as a metaphor. In Romans 1:1 Paul calls himself “a slave of Christ Jesus” and later in Romans 6:18 Paul writes “You have been set free from sin and become slaves to righteousness.”[104][105] Also in Galatians, Paul writes on the nature of slavery within the kingdom of God. Galatians 3:27-29 states “there is neither slave nor free person, there is not male and female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.”[106] We find similar patterns of speech and understanding about slavery in Peter's epistles. In 1 Peter 2:18, Saint Peter writes “Slaves, be subject to your masters with all reverence, not only to those who are good and equitable but also to those who are perverse.”[107]; 12/23/20, 9:40 AM
Birkel said...: Smug: "When we talk about Japanese or Koreans being more "collectivist" than Americans..."

It is an interesting choice to use the word "we" when nobody else was talking about Japan or Korea or the people thereof.
When you have private conversations inside your own head you cannot expect others to know what you might have meant.

Also, ignore the part where I define cooperation between parties as distinct from collectivism.
That shows good faith.; 12/23/20, 9:42 AM
J. Farmer said...: @Michael K:

You still don't understand. At noon yesterday, Dana Perino on Fox announced he would sign the bill. He is ONE MAN. The entire government, aside from a few loyalists, hates and tries to stop him.

Why didn't Trump release a video three weeks ago? Why hasn't Trump been demanding a bigger direct payment in the bill for a month? Why hasn't he been tweeting about it daily? Ron Johnson, one of Trump's biggest supporters, was the principle opponent of increasing payments from $600 to $1,200.

I readily accept that presidents are constrained by all kinds of structural forces. I'm not criticizing Trump for the things he had no control over.; 12/23/20, 9:59 AM
mockturtle said...: Bruce, thank you for the effort you exerted but those are not Biblical quotes but merely someone's analysis. Slavery has been, not a 'natural' state, but a fact of human history for millennia. Jesus did not come to re-engineer society but to re-engineer man's relationship to God.; 12/23/20, 10:02 AM
mockturtle said...: We are all slaves to sin and Jesus freed us from the penalty of sin if we accept his sacrifice.; 12/23/20, 10:05 AM
J. Farmer said...: @Birkel:

It is an interesting choice to use the word "we" when nobody else was talking about Japan or Korea or the people thereof.
When you have private conversations inside your own head you cannot expect others to know what you might have meant.

No disagreement from me. I was just explaining that rather than "defines away collectivism," "knew that and was sloppy," "or deceitful," you had merely misunderstood me. I did not introduce the word "collectivist." It was use to describe what I wrote about the cultural tension between "traditionalism" and "individualism."; 12/23/20, 10:17 AM
Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...: Amen! @mockturtle, 10:05; 12/23/20, 10:19 AM