Althouse: At the Big Snow Café...

December 12, 2020

At the Big Snow Café...

... you can't read the signs...

... so make some footprints.

221 comments:

«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 221 of 221

Michael K said...: That's precisely the outcome I'm warning about. If the GOP takes its cues from Trump, it's finished.

It may well be. What communitarian solution do you see? China is pretty communitarian, aside from the 100% corruption in the ruling class, of course,. But our ruling class is 100% corrupt so it works out well for them. The only losers are those people referred to as "voters."

You say you do not live in "a bubble" but you sound pretty theoretical to me.; 12/13/20, 12:28 PM
Qwinn said...: The position of the Left is that every single person who filed an affidavit under penalty of perjury in Trump's favor is in fact committing perjury, readering.

Why *wouldn't* they be imprisoned? Because you have no history of acting like fascists? Heh.; 12/13/20, 12:29 PM
Michael K said...: Let's start with the fact that neither you nor I have personal knowledge of facts sufficient to decide the question of whether there was result changing fraud in any state, let alone in multiple states. For example, the Georgia counting videa we've all viewed proves nothing without other testimony to put it in context and allow us to interpret it.

More typical non-argument. You are now in my "scrolling past" category. There are commenters here who have said they were present, let alone a thousand sworn affidavits.

Some "law professor." You and Freder are a pair.; 12/13/20, 12:32 PM
mockturtle said...: Farmer, thank you for the thorough summary of your social involvement. My post was not a personal attack but rather a genuine question regarding that involvement or perceived lack thereof because you don't seem to understand the Trump phenomenon. For us 'Trumpists', it's not all about Trump. It's about our country. Trump is our champion in the true sense of the word and has stood firm for our values, unflinchingly, in the face of unprecedented assaults by the media and by his political enemies. These values will survive Trump and are quite independent of either major party.; 12/13/20, 12:40 PM
J. Farmer said...: @Michael K:

It may well be. What communitarian solution do you see? China is pretty communitarian, aside from the 100% corruption in the ruling class, of course,. But our ruling class is 100% corrupt so it works out well for them. The only losers are those people referred to as "voters."

You say you do not live in "a bubble" but you sound pretty theoretical to me.

"Communitarian" mostly refers to a particular kind of critique of classical liberalism rather than a specific political agenda. But generally it is classified as culturally right and economically left. It's closest parallel in contemporary politics is probably the Christian Democratic parties. You can conceive of communitarianism as a right-wing critique of liberal capitalism. It argues that you cannot pursue traditionalism and liberal capitalism simultaneously.; 12/13/20, 12:52 PM
J. Farmer said...: @mockturtle:

It's about our country. Trump is our champion in the true sense of the word and has stood firm for our values, unflinchingly, in the face of unprecedented assaults by the media and by his political enemies.

On this, we will simply have to agree to disagree. For one, I know I am likely much more critical of Trump's presidency than you. Second, championing values is one thing; you still need to govern and have a political agenda and a strategy for enacting it. And thirdly, I think people should be very skeptical of interpersonal feelings towards politicians. That's why I've always said I support Trumpism but not Trump. When Trump does something I approve of, I support him. When he does something I disapprove of, I don't support him. But neither reflexively criticizing nor defending Trump is of much use.; 12/13/20, 1:06 PM
Rusty said...: "I'm well aware. That's precisely the outcome I'm warning about. If the GOP takes its cues from Trump, it's finished."
The good news is you haven't been right about a lot and 75 million people say you're wrong.; 12/13/20, 1:06 PM
Qwinn said...: "For one, I know I am likely much more critical of Trump's presidency than you."

TDS is a powerful force.

"Second, championing values is one thing; you still need to govern and have a political agenda and a strategy for enacting it."

Then you should be among his wildest fans here, because he has displayed the latter two with wildly successful results, and what makes it amazing was he did it all with even an executive branch that is utterly and completely in wild opposition to allowing him to "govern" in any normal or deferential sense at every last opportunity.

If there was any justice in this world, the man would have just received his fourth Nobel Peace Prize, for God's sake.

And no new wars. That sounds like a political agenda and a strategy for enacting it too!

And thirdly, I think people should be very skeptical of interpersonal feelings towards politicians. That's why I've always said I support Trumpism but not Trump.

Yes, because a President who defends the voting rights of his voters *must not* allow that to endear themselves to him. Or is the only way we get to be proud of him is if he concedes to what a massive portion of his voters are absolutely certain was stolen, by both domestic and foreign enemies?

I get how that attitude sounds like a great idea we should all agree with to a certain kind of TDS afflicted person.; 12/13/20, 1:31 PM
Qwinn said...: Virtually every social media site, every last member of Big Tech, slaps "disputed", or outright censors, any evidence of fraud.

Every mainstream media outlet is singing from your hymnal. Nothing they say is ever disputed. Ever.

Only what we say is disputed. And everything we say is disputed, by the completely captured networks of the new normal Ministry of Information.

That's the environment in which you people are acting, and you think no one is noticing? That any of us are so stupid that you could possibly see that and you're not even capable of acknowledging that okay, maybe that looks kinda bad? Kinda fascist?

That you cannot recognize it, or pretend not to, is precisely the quality that makes you fascists.

Well. Communists. Pretty much every tactic is the same.; 12/13/20, 1:41 PM
J. Farmer said...: @Rusty:

The good news is you haven't been right about a lot and 75 million people say you're wrong.

Sure, Rusty. I remember back in George W. Bush's first term when the dissident right was complaining about immigration, outsourcing, globalization, China's joining of the WTO, endless war, and the Bush/Rove strategy of writing off the white working class and banking on Hispanics to save the Republican Party. Meanwhile, Republican partisans were busy cheerleading the "global war on terrorism" and the Iraq War.

Congratulations on finally catching up to where the nationalist right has been for 30 years.; 12/13/20, 1:53 PM
J. Farmer said...: @Qwinn:

Or is the only way we get to be proud of him is if he concedes to what a massive portion of his voters are absolutely certain was stolen, by both domestic and foreign enemies?

Get to be proud of him? Oh, pass me a vomit bag. He's a politician, not your fucking bro. You sound more heartbroken than angry.; 12/13/20, 1:57 PM
Stephen said...: Qwinn,

Your personal knowledge that you were excluded from proving the count is not evidence that a single vote was changed. In both Pa. and Michigan, some folks were excluded, mostly because of crowding and COVID, but hundreds remained and were able to observe. Courts uniformly concluded that the exclusions did no justify setting aside the count.

Your viewing of a video from Georgia--a video whose participants and background you know nothing about personally--also does not show any fraud, particularly when the Trump supporting elecction officials in Georgia, who do know the participants and background, have repeatedly said that it does not.

So your personal knowledge does not permit you to draw any conclusions about fraud, let alone fraud that was "significant." If you are drawing such conclusions, you must be relying on other sources of information, or as you would call them, authorities. Who are they, and why do you trust them over the Trump supporting officials who say no fraud and the 50 courts that have reached the same conclusion?

So I don't think you've done a good or persuasive job of marshalling evidence for your position that there was significant fraud in this election.

I also think that your statement of the legal rule you would apply if there was significant fraud is not the law anywhere in the US, or in any democracy. I get that if a person cheats on a test, they get an F. That's because it is that's persons test, all their work, and no one else is at fault or will be affected by the remedy.

An election is different. It has thousands of officials participating and millions of voters--it's a collective enterprise with a lot of independent actors. It makes no sense to say that if there is any signficant fraud proved against anybody, whether an official or a voter, in an election, that means that the result should be reversed if that result had no impact on the outcome. Why? Because if the fraud didn't effect the outcome, then you are cancelling the work of thousands of officials and the millions of votes cast in good faith for both candidates by people who had no involvement in the fraud, even though they all acted legally and in good faith. Prosecute the fraudsters, then, but the election should stand. At this point, though, the evidence doesn't establish that there is anyone to prosecute.; 12/13/20, 1:59 PM
Qwinn said...: "Meanwhile, Republican partisans were busy cheerleading the "global war on terrorism" and the Iraq War. "

I supported it initially. I was insufficiently cynical about the extent the lengths the political Left would go to fully authorize and then utterly undermine the effort at every. last. possible. opportunity.

Until Trump at least, America has been rendered completely incapable of properly fighting a war. The enemy action is perceivable in every last enactment of the new normal procedures.

Everything else you claim only the dissident right complained about makes me a dissident all along, I guess. Who here have you ever seen defending such things in at least the last 10 of those years?; 12/13/20, 2:01 PM
J. Farmer said...: @Qwinn:

I was insufficiently cynical about the extent the lengths the political Left would go to fully authorize and then utterly undermine the effort at every. last. possible. opportunity.

This is the kind of brain rot partisan thinking leads to. Dick Cheney predicted in 1996 exactly what would happen if Saddam was overthrown. Civil society fell apart, and the country descended into sectarian violence and ethnic cleansing. There was also the matter of the WMD case totally collapsing.

Everything else you claim only the dissident right complained about makes me a dissident all along, I guess. Who here have you ever seen defending such things in at least the last 10 of those years?

Unfortunately, waiting until after the deals are signed, the factories are closed, the immigrants are here, and the regimes are overthrown is a little too late. As early as 1992, Republicans had a choice between America First and new world order. They chose the latter.; 12/13/20, 2:16 PM
Qwinn said...: "As early as 1992, Republicans had a choice between America First and new world order. They chose the latter."

Until Trump.

Beat ISIS.

Secured and improved large sections of the border wall in the face of monolithic opposition by nearly all offices of government.

Peace between Israel and 4 middle east countries. And if you don't see the agenda and strategy there, it's only because you don't like it.

Vaccine in seven months. (Just saw a focus group - Mark Halperin - where even the absolute looniest of the leftist guests all gave him credit on the vaccine.)

Every market index at all times high in the face of the pandemic.

My only beef is with the overspending we've all gotten used to these few decades, and I *don't* expect the man to face the infinite opposition he's facing on the cheap. We'll be very lucky if a huge deficit is all we have to pay.

Income gains not in the higher income brackets but the lowest. You see that as a bad thing, don't you? Hispanics and blacks *are* quite overrepresented among those who have done well in Trump's economy.

Lots and lots and lots of blacks and hispanics in the crowds cheering for Trump at DC yesterday. Like, seriously, a lot. Including me, by the way.

Raised by Cubans, but not an immigrant, born in Puerto Rico as a full citizen.

I bet that chafes too.; 12/13/20, 2:28 PM
Qwinn said...: And Farmer? The bubble that mockturtle quite easily detected appears to be completely unaware of the complete censoring and other-ization of anyone who sides with Trump.

The leftist position on this fraud is that our concerns have no merit or evidence. Left unspoken is that they have literally done everything possible to prevent any evidence from being observed or maintained, and we *still* have a thousand affidavits and a staggering amount of physical and video evidence that should be shocking you to the core.

In your utopian conservative traditionalist society, that's all okay?

Then keep it, and the reasons you're a "dissident" are pretty self evident.; 12/13/20, 2:38 PM
Qwinn said...: You've also pretty much made it clear that no one in your bubble has suffered from the lockdowns either.; 12/13/20, 2:39 PM
J. Farmer said...: @Qwinn:

Raised by Cubans, but not an immigrant, born in Puerto Rico as a full citizen.

I bet that chafes too.

On the contrary, I don't give a fuck. My position has nothing to do with you personally.

And Farmer? The bubble that mockturtle quite easily detected appears to be completely unaware of the complete censoring and other-ization of anyone who sides with Trump.

I've commented about that numerous times over the years. I've consistently said that the opposition to Trump is unhinge.

Then keep it, and the reasons you're a "dissident" are pretty self evident.

My dissent from GOP Inc is for a very simply reason: it's neoliberal.

You've also pretty much made it clear that no one in your bubble has suffered from the lockdowns either.

Well, except for my husband, my parents, my sisters, several family members, and the two dozen people who work with me. (1) You know fuck all about me. (2) Even if you did, it doesn't make anything I've said right or wrong.; 12/13/20, 5:13 PM
Marcus Bressler said...: For all those here boasting about guns and uprising and rebellion: let us know when you actually do something other than bluster about on your keyboard.

Me: Perhaps you'll be among the first to know.

THEOLDMAN; 12/13/20, 8:04 PM
Mutaman said...: "And you know what other crowd was young, and clearly siding with the President?

Everyone at the Army Navy game."

That's the last live sporting event Trump is going to see until he watches the guards play the prisoners.; 12/13/20, 11:44 PM
Rusty said...: Stephen said, "Qwinn,

Your personal knowledge that you were excluded from proving the count is not evidence that a single vote was changed."
Yeah. You go with that.
There is mounting evidence of vote fraud in swing states. Now disprove the evidence. Rhetoric isn't going to do it.; 12/14/20, 7:37 AM