November 5, 2020

"Whatever happens in the courts, Trump is all but certain to be his own vortex of uncertainty over the next couple of months, until the Inauguration..."

"... and that will be true even after there is a decisive resolution. A vengeance-seeker in the best of times, Trump had already signalled before the election that he might fire a long list of officials in his government whom he views as insufficiently loyal or willing to go along with his orders. These include the director of the F.B.I., Christopher Wray; the Attorney General, William Barr; the director of the C.I.A., Gina Haspel; and, even in the midst of the pandemic, the nation’s top infectious-disease expert, Dr. Anthony Fauci. He could seek to fire them even if he loses, or perhaps especially if he does.... Even defeated, Trump could use his executive powers to wreak significant additional damages before January 20th. He could break norms and traditions even more than he has already, and pardon his family, friends, cronies—even, potentially, himself. He could undermine public confidence in a coronavirus vaccine, or stop the government’s fight against it altogether. There are many scenarios for the havoc we might see....”

Writes Susan B. Glasser (in The New Yorker). 

I wonder if we'll miss this Trump-specific alarmism if/when Trump goes away. Of course, he won't go away. He'll regroup within media and carry on the havoc from the outside. He won't withdraw in humiliation at this seeming rejection. He'll feel immensely loved by the true Americans, unjustly ousted by his enemies, and stronger than you can possibly imagine

I enjoyed Glasser's reference to the idea that the outrageous President Trump might pardon himself. I used that idea on a Constitutional Law exam 20-some years ago. It was a current topic back then. Here's Slate from December 1998: "Can President Clinton Pardon Himself?" 

In 2018, Bill Clinton — no longer in possession of the pardon power — asserted that the President does not have the power to pardon himself. He just said "no" when asked, which, of course, would get zero credit as an answer on a conlaw exam, where it's all about the reasons you can elaborate. You've got to demonstrate your knowledge of the methodologies of constitutional interpretation. That's what matters.

Also quoted at that last link, President Trump:
As has been stated by numerous legal scholars, I have the absolute right to PARDON myself, but why would I do that when I have done nothing wrong?

That's a strong assertion that the President has the power, then an enigmatic question that contains another assertion — that he did nothing wrong. But it's obvious why someone who'd done nothing wrong might want a pardon. A President may have powerful enemies who are threatening to prosecute him even though — in his opinion — he did nothing wrong.  

68 comments:

Birkel said...

Will Flynn keep fighting his prosecution or would he now accept a pardon?
Judge Sullivan is unconscionably pushing that decision.

wendybar said...

I hope he releases EVERYTHING!! Declassify things and release them all before he leaves so we know exactly who did what and when. It is time for the truth to come out.

Michael said...

Trump is the most 'Anti-Fragile' political figure I've ever seen. If you think he is an influential leader as Pres, wait till you see him as leader of the resistance

David Begley said...

Wild, crazy and baseless speculation by Susan B. Glazer. But Wray and Haspel should be fired anyway; especially Wray. He sat on Hunter’s laptop for months.

The Left still can’t understand that Trump fights.

David Begley said...

Forget the courts. We need new elections in MI, WI and PA. It is pointless to count fraudulent ballots.

DOJ needs to supervise. And bring in poll workers and election judges from states like NE.

tim in vermont said...

“norms and traditions” of FBI, CIA, NSA, IRS, FEC, etc interference in domestic politics.

This is largely Obama’s doing, BTW. If Trump doesn’t win this battle, and with the utterly partisan RBG gone, he may have a better chance to overcome Quisling Roberts obedience to the invisible powers that be.

It’s hard to believe it, but our country seems to be ruled by people whose names we don’t even know. We don’t know how they make their money, who their friends are, any of it. All we can really do is deduce their existence from the evidence, and infer that they have a war room somewhere and direct lines to media leaders and loyal politicians of all stripes. They have the power to force or cajole or whatever candidates out of the primary who have real shots at being President in such a way as to eliminate non cooperative candidates like Sanders, to clear the field for and openly corrupt figurehead who will do whatever they want.

They are like that organization Quantum in the Bond Movie that is everywhere and invisible and completely out for itself. The fascists and communists always said that freedom cannot defend itself. They were agreeing with Ben Franklin, and Ben Franklin was right.

Marcus Bressler said...

If Trump loses, the "no-action" Durham investigation looks worse and worse. A Biden DOJ would halt any proceedings begun between now and Biden's first day as POTUS.

THEOLDMAN

If elected, Biden falls right between Obama and Carter as worse presidents ever.

tim in vermont said...

We need a new “Voting Rights Act” that builds out the nations voting infrastructure along the lines of that in Florida. I believe that Congress sets the manner of its own election. But Ryan was more interested in temporary tax cuts and ensuring the supply of cheap labor for his rich crony friends.

Obadiah said...


Blogger David Begley said...

Forget the courts. We need new elections in MI, WI and PA. It is pointless to count fraudulent ballots.


Not fraudulent, there's no evidence for that. Some of them are arriving late, and the issue being litigated is whether it is proper to accept them after election day. But they aren't fraudulent ballots.

There is an issue of citizen reliance on the rules at the time they voted. This issue was already litigated, and the courts upheld the idea that the ballot just has to be postmarked by election day. I think that's the wrong answer because it is not what the statute says, but at this point its too late to undo it. People who relied on that result and procrastinated about mailing their ballot until Tuesday don't deserve to have their ballot trashed by an ex post facto ruling overturning the earlier finding.

MayBee said...

4 years ago, the one true thing we knew about Trump was that he took on the opinion of the last person he talked to.

Do you all remember that? It's just been one true thing we know about him after another these past 4 years.

Political Junkie said...

Why haven't GA and NC pres and senate races been called. Shows 100% counted on state websites?

rehajm said...

Of course, he won't go away. He'll regroup within media and carry on the havoc from the outside.

That's what a career political grifter would do. He doesn't need that and it won't be where he goes.

His enemies still don't understand they're the assholes...

Mark said...

LMAO David Begley.

Biden Derangement Syndrome.

iowan2 said...

The left is populated with an impressive number of mindreaders, and wish casters.

iowan2 said...

PS. Terribly bad mind readers, they have yet to get anything correct about our President.

Temujin said...

I love this. From the people who spent 4+ years doing virtually everything in their power to create a coup, to undo the 2016 election. False news stories requested, received, and planted by them, professional career bureaucrats working against the President, attacking his Supreme Court selections with the wild-eyed craziness of a drug hopped religious cult, the Russia Russia Russia collusion hoax that was virtually nurtured and carried around by the media for years, the ensuing Impeachment bullshit, the constant telling us of Trump's Nazi inclinations, as he moved the US Embassy to Jerusalem and created a path for peace with Arab nations, his obvious white supremacy genes as he created the best employment environment for Black Americans in history AND created a program to keep the Historically Black Colleges funded- forever.

Yes, from these people, let's hear about how vengeful Trump can be.

Lurker21 said...


We're all in that "vortex of uncertainty," and it's not going to end soon. If Biden is declared the winner, will Democrats still try to prosecute Trump? Would Biden try to stop the prosecutions in the interest of "being an American, not just a Democrat, president"? I don't think he could stop state and city prosecutors, but would he even try?

iowan2 said...

Where would SCOTUS find the power to overturn the actions of the Executive Branch exercising enumerated constitutional powers? That seems to be the question.
Strange that unqualified immunity protects judges(Sullivan), prosecutors, and law enforcement.But that is something invented by judges, not found in the constitution, or created by statute. But sustained by stare decisis.

Heartless Aztec said...

On January 10th - or there abouts - President Pence pardons Donald Trump.

tim maguire said...

David Begley said...
Wild, crazy and baseless speculation by Susan B. Glazer.


And exactly what we expect. We'll get lots more of this in the next few weeks if Trump does indeed lose.

Clayton Hennesey said...

Trump will turn it around in the courts, and then the Democrats will unleash the déluge de sang in the streets.

Sebastian said...

"You've got to demonstrate your knowledge of the methodologies of constitutional interpretation. That's what matters."

Which Clinton did demonstrate. The common "methodology" is to make up some "interpretation" that suits you and stick to it. Judges may lard it with "reasons," for the benefit of law profs and hoi polloi. But Bill knew exactly what really matters. He could obfuscate if needed, of course, with other "methodologies."

tim in vermont said...

https://mkecitywire.com/stories/564495243-analysis-seven-milwaukee-wards-report-more-2020-presidential-votes-than-registered-voters-biden-nets-146k-votes-in-city

Doesn’t it go to the legislature if the election is hopelessly compromised?

Had they had a “revote” in Florida, the panhandle would have showed up the next time, and Bush would have won in a landslide. Instead they had been told that Gore had already won by the networks, and that their votes didn’t matter.

mikee said...

Why pardon one's own self, when one can pardon Pence for any crimes he may have committed, then resign on Jan 20 at 11:00am and be pardoned by President Pence a few minutes later, before President Harris is inaugurated? There is a precedent for this with Nixon/Ford, and I don't think Pence worries too much about his future in politics. Pence might just see such a reciprocal safety net as "for the good of the country" to stop any retribution against Trump. Or himself.

As to the firings: They are overwhelmingly deserved in the cases of Wray and Haspel. Barr, I don't know about, but FBI and CIA continued to work against Trump up to the present day.

DarkHelmet said...

Happy to see Wray and Haspel fired. They're terrible. The sooner the better.

If Glazer is concerned about 'breaking norms' she might want to go back to the Kennedy administration with the president placing his brother in the AG office and the two of them carrying on affairs with anything in a skirt, including mafioso dames. That was some norm breaking.

Then we could talk about the grotesque LBJ. Or we could skip ahead to the cigar wielding Bill Clinton.

I love it when the iconoclasts complain about shattered images.

Bunkypotatohead said...

The Dem party has been the anti-Trump party for the past 4 years.
I don't think they know anything else to do or be. So they will persecute him once he leaves office. He'll be the first former president to be charged with crimes and Karmala's new DOJ will be happy to try to prosecute him for them.

Assistant Village Idiot said...

I like Barr, but why would firing Wray or Fauci be a bad idea to begin with? There is the continuing assumption of knowing that Trump has bad motives for everything he might do, and the entire argument is focused on those bad motives. Except no one has invented a Motive-o-Meter yet, and they don't actually know his motives.

If nearly all psychologists and a majority of psychiatrists weren't liberal, we would be hearing more often that the most common reason for believing one knows another's motives is projection. But the left cannot survive arguments without that assumption, neither in logic nor in PR.

roesch/voltaire said...

The tin dictator will never stop tweeting his twisted phantasies but he maybe slowed down by the many law suits and investigations into his business that will pull him into the courts. And then there is the rape case which is going forward.

rhhardin said...

The right is interested in finding out how people voted, and the left is interested in concealing it.

Michael K said...

Blogger Mark said...
LMAO David Begley.

Biden Derangement Syndrome.


Lefty Mark, that's what we have been talking about since last summer. I agree. Biden is deranged.

WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...

Tim In Vermont. 6:26

Agreed. An updated modernized transparent - easy to verify one-person-one vote- vote system is long over-due. We must clean up the corrupt vote/cheat/last minute vote discovery all for the D! the left have been building for years now. Now the left aren't even bothering with fake ballots, they are manufacturing votes out of thin air.
No other issue compares in importance.


The GOP must clean up the left's corrupt system and now. No more kicking the can down the road.

NYC JournoList said...

Stage two is when the state elections are thrown out for fraud and the state legislatures choose the electors. Then we move to stage three. Is the ultimate compromise the House elects Biden and the Senate elects Pence? I could live with that deal if it keeps the peace.

NYC JournoList said...

Democrats say the Republicans suppress votes and won’t count all the votes. They may be right. But don’t worry, Biden’s people have a plan: count all votes thrice!

Iman said...

Nuttin’ from nuttin’, but your opinions are excrement, retch/frigidaire.

tim in vermont said...

I am pretty sure now that Biden will never be POTUS. Which means that Trump will have the time he needs to disentangle the FBI from domestic politics, expose the vast corruption of the Biden family, etc.

If Trump were a dictator, it’s pretty funny how he doesn’t control the press. Biden is far more in the mold of a corrupt banana republic dictator, easily. Selling his official power for money, and intimidating the press, getting rid of pesky pundits who criticize him, etc.

If we had some kind of double blind experiment and we put in what was known about Trump and about Biden, Biden would come up as more the tin pot dictator every time, including his love of war.

D.D. Driver said...

Forget the courts. We need new elections in MI, WI and PA. It is pointless to count fraudulent ballots.

DOJ needs to supervise. And bring in poll workers and election judges from states like NE.


Step back from the ledge.

(1) Trump is one of the greatest businessmen of all time. Some are saying "the greatest" but we don't have to decide right now whether he is merely the greatest living businessmen or the greatest all time. We know he is a great businessmen.

(2) Great businessmen know how to pick the best lawyers. Just like they know how to pick the best accountants, plumbers, pocket squares, and massage parlors.

(3) In all seriousness, the World's Greatest Elections lawyers are working on this right now. These guys are really good and at least as good at practicing elections law as some random paranoid rage monkey gossiping on Twitter.

(4)The next step is to take any allegations of voter fraud to court. Love it or leave it, in America we solve disputes in court not on Twitter. Here is Wisconsin, the Supreme Court is conservative. If there was voter fraud the world's greatest elections lawyers--arguing before a very sympathetic Court--will clean up it up. Thousands of suspicious votes are not going to slip through the cracks without anyone asking where they came from and verifying that they are legitimate.

(5) There are only two explanations if the world's greatest elections lawyers cannot prove that election fraud occurred. (i) aliens; (ii) it just didn't happen.

And, do you even hear yourself? Do you think an Obama DOJ would have helped or hindered a Trump election in 2016? You think the feds would help or hindered Trump this year? Why would a conservative ever want the federal DOJ in charge of our local elections? Madness.

tim in vermont said...

What they are really worried about is the thing they don’t say. Their corruption is laid bare on that laptop.

Money Manger said...

The New Yorker, NYT, MSNBC now face a bleak future without the rabid Trump haters tuning in for their daily confirmation bias fix. Instead Biden will be a mild source of embarrassment, and viewers and readers will quietly turn away. From a different perspective Althouse will share this same fate.

Dave Begley said...

Since Susan B. Glasser can speculate, I can speculate about new elections. A federal judge could order new elections. Federal judges ordered bussing so why not elections?

It is pointless to use these fraudulent tallies based upon made-up votes.

People in WI, MI and PA deserve better. Does WI have a GOP legislature? I can't recall. Pass an emergency bill and force Evers to make a decision.

Real voters' constitutional rights are being violated with all these fake and illegal votes.

iowan2 said...

RV wants the Presidents businesses investigated. He can’t name a crime. Thats the Democrat has in him, acting like the dictators the really are. Prosecuting political enemies.

tim in vermont said...

Well looky what made the news in Michigan:

https://twitter.com/jerrywaynear14/status/1324224796952039424

It wold definitely be racist to remove a voter from the rolls just because he was born during the Monroe administration. We need this kind of long view of history in our voters!

Rusty said...

r/v. maybe you better sit on your hands for awhile. We're in no mood for your sanctimonious, fabulist opinions. Otherwise. Things will get ugly.

tim in vermont said...

Althouse has a point that it wasn’t worth it to vote in Wisconsin, since people’s actual individual votes are not how elections are decided there.

https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2020/11/massive-voter-fraud-in-wisconsin.php

tim in vermont said...

"but he maybe slowed down by the many law suits and investigations into his business that will pull him into the courts. “

So nobody has been able to find any corrupt use of his office then, unlike what is known about Joe Biden. Is that what I am reading r/v? Just a bunch of BAU bullshit and a person who revoked her consent decades later.

tim in vermont said...

"From a different perspective Althouse will share this same fate.”

I look forward to the time, in four and a half years or so, when the next POTUS is sworn in, that Trump no longer dominates this blog.

Mark said...

Yes, Tim, the Democrats managed to get all those red counties to turn out the vote despite being unable to get them to wear a mask.

I think Trump should send his legal eagles across the Northwoods red counties figuring out why they turned out for such a turd

Dave said...

If Trump is defeated, they will go after him hammer and tongs with the full might of the executive office and all the various departments of government.

tim in vermont said...

Wisconsin requires voter ID to stop fraud, Democrats say “Hold my beer.”

This is probably how Walker lost.

tim in vermont said...

"Yes, Tim..."

What’s with the friendly fire? There is a war on now for the future of our country. Let’s leave our differences aside. I think that Trump is going to win this, but he needs popular support.

tim in vermont said...

ic Grenell, the former acting Director of National Intelligence, is slated to hold a Thursday morning press conference in Las Vegas to announce the Trump campaign is filing a lawsuit that seeks to count every "legal" vote. The Trump campaign is alleging that at least 10,000 people voted in the state [Nevada], despite no longer living there.

tim in vermont said...

PA Supreme Court barring Republican observers from the counting.

What could they have to hide?

eddie willers said...

A President may have powerful enemies who are threatening to prosecute him even though — in his opinion — he did nothing wrong.

There is precedent. Caesar/Rubicon

tim in vermont said...

More statistical evidence that the Wisconsin election is rife with fraud

Analysis of vote totals shows that by far the most common ending digits for counts is 00, because that happens all the time in the real world, right?

https://twitter.com/QuasLacrimas/status/1324159485259251714

I always suspected that there was. fraud, but I never imagined it was on this scale. I thought mostly illegals and busloads of out of staters.

D.D. Driver said...

This is probably how Walker lost.

Don't forget: in Wisconsin its often Republicans who end up "finding extra ballots."

So do you think:
(1) When republicans find extra votes they are not cheating, but when democrats find extra ballots, they are?
(2) No one is cheating. With enough counties and enough county clerks, some of them are incompetent which leads to embarrassing, but honest mistakes?
(3) Both sides are cheating, the democrats are just better at it?

As an aside, Walker lost because of Foxconn--a Trump-led boondoggle. I was upset to see Walker sweep aside our Anti-kelo laws in an effort to allow municipalities to take family farms away from private citizens and give it to a Taiwanese company to build a ghost factory.

At least that is how he lost me, and I bet I am not alone.

hombre said...

Some Americans voted for a tin pot republic while the deciding votes were provided by what appears to be massive fraud. It boggles the mind that President Joe is not defending against extortion charges, That Hillary has not been convicted of her email crimes, that Hunter is not indicted foe influence peddling. But they are Democrats.

Trump needs to fear for himself and his family when the tin pots take over. Look at the shit they have already pulled and the sedition that has defined them.

hombre said...

BTW, I suspect this election is a done deal. Trump is out. The Senate is gone. Atlanta couldn’t cheat Stacey in but they can cheat Daffy Joe in.

doctrev said...

Dave said...
If Trump is defeated, they will go after him hammer and tongs with the full might of the executive office and all the various departments of government.

11/5/20, 10:00 AM

They've been doing it since the inauguration, why stop now? But they've miscalculated, and if anything Glasser isn't being alarmist enough. When the media and the polling industry had their credibility DESTROYED, they destroyed it for Joe Biden. Are left-wing Democrats truly going to the barricades in the name of neoliberalism? With a historically narrow House majority and a Republican Senate?

Admittedly, this would have been an amazing plan if RBG, Kagan, and Breyer simply legitimized all this vote fraud. But one of the triumvirs is roasting in hell, and hopefully her partners will join her soon. If the Dems were smart, they'd realize how many secret traps the President set for fraudsters and concede. They're not, so I imagine you're going to see modern use of the Insurrection Act very soon...

MD Greene said...

The bigger question is whether Trump will pardon Lois Lerner, Lisa Page, Peter Sztrok and Hunter Biden between the election and Joe Biden's inauguration.

Oh, wait. None of them ever was charged or tried.

Never mind.

hombre said...

Win or lose, it will be disappointing if Trump doesn’t fire Wray and Haspel, the obstructions.

Qwinn said...

Republicans could've won every election of the last 3 decades by 65% plus, and we'd never know.

Qwinn said...

tim in vermont:

I clicked you "Monroe era" link. "This tweet is unavailable". More censorship?

Qwinn said...

DD Driver: Pres and VP candidates of the last 40 years:

Mondale - Lawyer
Ferraro - Lawyer
Dukakis - Lawyer
Bentsen - Not a lawyer!
B. Clinton- Lawyer
Gore - Failed out of Law School!
Lieberman - Lawyer
Kerry - Lawyer
Edwards - Lawyer
Obama - Lawyer
Biden - Lawyer
H. Clinton - Lawyer
Kamala- Lawyer

And on the other side...

Reagan - Not a lawyer
Bush H - Not a lawyer
Quayle - has law degree but never practiced
Dole - Lawyer, among several other professions
Kemp - not a lawyer
Bush W - not a lawyer
Cheney - not a lawyer
McCain - not a lawyer
Palin - not a lawyer
Romney - not a lawyer
Ryan - not a lawyer
Trump - not a lawyer
Pence - OMG a lawyer! Quit practicing after 4 years.

And of course every lawyer association in the country is leftist.

But if lawyers don't side with Republicans on voter fraud charges, it can only be there was no fraud! Thanks for your awesome insight.

tim in vermont said...

Waukesha County Clerk Kathy Nickolaus just announced that she forgot to report votes from the City of Brookfield on election night, giving Justice David Prosser an additional 7,381 vote edge, ending any free recount possibilities, and giving Prosser the election.

That’s not finding extra ballots at all, the only effect it had was to give the fraudsters in Milwaukee the wrong cheat target.

Static Ping said...

I have seen signs that in this election "Democracy Is on the Ballot".

And indeed it was. And it lost.

I am not sure if the republic can recover from this. When people think - legitimately - that the elections are rigged, the system cannot survive.

BUMBLE BEE said...


Maria Bartiromo
@MariaBartiromo
Some or all of the content shared in this Tweet is disputed and might be misleading about an election or other civic process. Learn more
-4am dump/Wisconsin 65,000 votes 100% for Biden
-4am dump/Michigan 138,499 votes 100% 4Biden
-AZ poll workers forcing voters to use sharpies thereby invalidated ballots
-Trump leading in GA, NC, PA, WI, MI & they stop counting" before the vote fairy visits overnight...
This claim about election fraud is disputed

Michael K said...

At least that is how he lost me, and I bet I am not alone.

You were lost long ago.

Maillard Reactionary said...

Althouse said: "But it's obvious why someone who'd done nothing wrong might want a pardon."

Really? Not so to me. This is what was once recognized as that rare human quality, "greatness". It appears that you just can't see it when it looks you in the face.

Did Jesus protest to Pilate that he had done no wrong? Pilate saw what he saw and said so, but it was the weekend, Saturnalia was in progress, and he gave the barbarian crowd what they wanted.

res ipsa loquitur, as they say in law school. If they still do.

hstad said...


Blogger tim in vermont said..."...I look forward to the time, in four and a half years or so, when the next POTUS is sworn in, that Trump no longer dominates this blog..." 11/5/20, 9:18AM

"tim in vermont" you do know that if Trump loses his bid for the Presidency he can run again in 4 years? What prevents him except for his age, which he demonstrated aptly is not a current issue. Sweet revenge for all these 70 million + voters. Given the stink of "fraud" in the air!