September 3, 2020

Trump restates his advice on how to vote... and he's not really saying to vote twice.

I called it "confusing and inflammatory" yesterday, based on something he said, so let's look at how he put it in tweet form this morning:
Based on the massive number of Unsolicited & Solicited Ballots that will be sent to potential Voters for the upcoming 2020 Election, & in order for you to MAKE SURE YOUR VOTE COUNTS & IS COUNTED, SIGN & MAIL IN your Ballot as EARLY as possible. On Election Day, or Early Voting,..

.....go to your Polling Place to see whether or not your Mail In Vote has been Tabulated (Counted). If it has you will not be able to Vote & the Mail In System worked properly. If it has not been Counted, VOTE (which is a citizen’s right to do). If your Mail In Ballot arrives....

....after you Vote, which it should not, that Ballot will not be used or counted in that your vote has already been cast & tabulated. YOU ARE NOW ASSURED THAT YOUR PRECIOUS VOTE HAS BEEN COUNTED, it hasn’t been “lost, thrown out, or in any way destroyed”. GOD BLESS AMERICA!!!
There's an assumption that the state has adequate safeguards, and it will prevent anyone who has mailed in a vote from voting in person and will refuse to count a mailed-in vote if it is received after an in-person vote has been cast. If that is so or if the voter believes it is so, then the person who votes twice isn't intending to vote twice, only intending to make sure one or the other vote is counted.

But why would anyone be in this situation? If you're going to go in a try to vote in person on election day, why would you vote by mail at an earlier point in time? It could be that you're worried about all the people who are going to trust their mailed-in vote, and you want to test the entire system and put the state on notice that the system will be tested. And Trump has already put this pressure on the state. Regardless of what anyone actually does, Trump's statements tell the states they need to put strong safeguards in place, which is a good idea.

One might say Trump's threat of chaos forces the state to create order and even that he has no better way to create order than indirectly, through chaos.

ADDED: The executive director of the North Carolina State Board of Elections has put out a statement, and it coordinates with Trump's idea:
It is illegal to vote twice in an election. N.C.G.S. § 163-275(7) makes it a Class I felony for a voter, “with intent to commit a fraud to register or vote at more than one precinct or more than one time…in the same primary or election.” Attempting to vote twice in an election or soliciting someone to do so also is a violation of North Carolina law.

There are numerous checks in place in North Carolina that prevent people from double voting. Electronic pollbooks with information about who has already voted are used at every early voting site. If a voter tries to check in who has already voted, they will be prevented from voting a regular ballot. A voter will be offered a provisional ballot if they insist on voting, and this ballot will be researched after Election Day to determine whether it should be counted.
Those who are following Trump's directions are not trying to get through these safeguards but to see for themselves that the safeguards are really there.
On Election Day, voters who have voted absentee are removed from the pollbook, which is updated before voting starts at 6:30 a.m. Absentee ballots that are received on Election Day are not counted until after the election, and this prevents double voting.
That's what Trump said was the case. He just wants people to test to see if that is indeed the system.
Also, the State Board conducts audits after each election that check voter history against ballots cast and would detect if someone tries to vote more than once in an election. Because absentee ballots and early voting ballots are retrievable, if someone tries to get around the system, their ballot can be retrieved and not counted, so it will not affect the outcome of an election.

The State Board has a dedicated investigations team that investigates allegations of double voting, which are referred to prosecutors when warranted....
Good!
If you have already placed your ballot in the mail but are not sure whether it has been accepted by your county board of elections, North Carolina offers a few ways to check the status of your absentee by-mail ballot without leaving your home.
These are be alternatives to the method Trump is suggesting.
Voters can: Check your voter record at the State Board’s Voter Search Tool to find out whether your ballot was accepted by your county board of elections. This information will appear in the voter record after a ballot has been accepted.

Sign up for BallotTrax, when it launches in the next few days, to track your ballot through the system. BallotTrax is a new service that will allow voters to track their ballot through the mail and confirm receipt by the county board of elections, much like they can track their online order or pizza delivery....
These alternatives sound much more orderly than Trump's method.

103 comments:

Owen said...

Nice move by Trump. Nice analysis by Prof. A.

veni vidi vici said...

It's really beyond tiresome to hear this referred to as "Trump's threat of chaos". For Pete's sake, look around: In NJ a month or two ago they threw out an entire election based on vote-by-mail fraud issues. Moreover, Trump is presenting a solution to what is rather obviously a prescription for "chaos" (namely, mail in voting) that is being pushed almost exclusively by the opposition party.

Why is the Democrats' pet project that lacks safeguards, where their foxes will be guarding the vote-integrity henhouses in various battleground states, somehow "Trump's threat"? How is he the one you're holding responsible for this?

rhhardin said...

Trump is a problem solver.

He puts it out there that mail in voting is a huge risk, especially puts it out to the left, who perhaps will stop arguing for it.

Readering said...

Might.

mccullough said...

Now the states, cities, and counties are scrambling. Very clever boy.

rehajm said...

It's another Althouse-Documented-Trump-Persuasion win! Second one today...

CStanley said...

Yes, this is not that hard to understand once you recognize that the advice is meant to show citizens a way to hold their state election board officials accountable. I prefer voting in person and had not intended to mail in a ballot but now that I think about it, I may follow the course of action he recommends.

Mr Wibble said...

It wouldn't surprise me if Dem governors try to impose last-minute restrictions on voting in person.

Or Antifa/BLM decide to storm polling places.

JB71-AZ said...

Years back, I saw the following:

The Left takes Trump literally, but not seriously.
The Right takes Trump seriously, but not literally.

I sometimes think that it's because the left's had any semblance of a sense of humor, or ability to laugh at themselves, or ability to laugh at something ridiculous surgically removed.

With a dull, rusty spork.

Birkel said...

Trump has boxed the defenders of mail-in voting quite nicely.

If they admit this would be an easy form of casting two ballots, they admit mail-in voting is dangerous to the "one person, one vote" concept.

That means Trump wins the issue and American elections are more secure.

And if they say "Trump's position is reasonable " then Trump's voters vote twice all across the country.
Just like Democratics were planning.

stever said...

The problem is "adequate safeguards" are "voter suppression". There are professionals working to get as many votes as possible for the right candidates. Takes money (think Soros), wins elections (ballot harvesting - 2018) and is predominately a Democrat Party strategy. They will cheat so better to plan on it.

Goetz von Berlichingen said...

I thought Trump was pretty clear yesterday. And the reasons why he said that were clear as well.

BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

The democrat plan is what they are telling us. If Trump wins on election night, just keep finding boxes of ballots to count. There are always boxes of ballots for team D sitting around.

DKWalser said...

Trump is forcing those demanding a dramatic increase in mail-in voting to describe what safeguards are in place to prevent fraud. His original response to the demand for increased mail-in voting is that it would lead to fraud. His opponents objected that voting fraud is rare and Trump was overstating the potential for fraud.

In response to his revised take on the mail-in voting question, his opponents are NOW saying Trump is encouraging massive voter fraud. That was his point all along -- mailing everyone a ballot, whether it was requested or not, makes voter fraud far easier than it has ever been.

WWMartin said...

It highlights one of the ways that vote fraud can be accomplished and thus the possible inadequacy of vote-by-mail scheme security.

Narayanan said...

in story lil-chile giggled out emperor nekkid

in USA 2020 GEOTU points out don't be nekkid - we is rich we gots clothes also check closet

Ken B said...

I told you why: fear of chaos at the polls. Trumps advice applies to when that chaos does not eventuate.

And Yancey Ward told you about “unsolicited”.

Bay Area Guy said...

Most sane people know how to vote. It's easy. You register, well in advance, you show up on election day, you vote. Not a big deal.

The Democrats don't like this. Apparently, their voters are so clueless, so inept, so down and out, that they can't figure out how to register, show up, bring an ID and vote.

So, they twist this simple process into knots. Same day registration, no ID, mail votes, harvesting ballots, vote multiple times, multiple lawsuits, etc, etc, etc.

In Philadelphia, they had menacing thugs -- the New Black Panther Party - at the voting location

They want to make the US like Chicago - a one party town. There are many great things about Chicago, true. But too much violence in the ghettos, and corruption in the government. Widespread. Systemic.

Don't let the Democrats turn the US into Chicago.

Mr. Majestyk said...

Why encourage his supporters to vote by mail if they're going to vote in person? One answer: if the states will be double counting votes, they might as well double count Republican votes too.

Narayanan said...

If double (eyes wide shut) blind is scientific ; double-eyes-open-awareness is political vigilance

stress testing + scalability testing >>>> Trump is SUPER NERD

Joe Smith said...

Vote early, vote often.

Hell, even vote when you're dead. It's the Democrat way.

Yancey Ward said...

I wrote it in the other thread- the Democrats won't support more secure elections until the Republicans up their game and start doing everything Democrats do, including cheating. So, you can read Trump that way, too.

YoungHegelian said...

Sign up for BallotTrax, when it launches in the next few days, to track your ballot through the system

Oh, sure, because in the great & storied history of IT projects, there are just billions & billions of mission critical applications thrown up at the last minute that work perfectly well right out of the box.

[Author Rolls Eyes Bigly]

Limited blogger said...

Looks like another Trump win to me.

reader said...

California is explicitly telling us that there will be fewer polling places open, that most likely the location that we vote has changed, and, “[d]on’t be surprised, lines may be long!”

It gives me the impression that they want to make in person voting more difficult. So I could see myself mailing in my ballot and then voting in person if my ballot doesn’t show as being processed.

But...it makes my feel fidgety to have the state have an electronic information packet directly tied to my (most likely?) scannable ballot. Beyond the standard address and affiliation will the vote tracking registration require email and cell phone number? If my email is gmail do I trust google not to give the state access to my information?

wild chicken said...

All states should do more public 'splainin too. Tell people the law and how the safeguards work.

Our elections admin here is still little too "yeah we got this, no worries" to really reassure the voters.

Nichevo said...

If Trump wins on election night, just keep finding boxes of ballots to count. There are always boxes of ballots for team D sitting around.


How is this even legitimately conceivable to occur? Why isn't anybody who "finds" a box of ballots outside the chain of custody thrown in prison for twenty years? Along with whoever lost custody of it (last signed for it)?

Corners? Attics? Trunks of cars? Horseshit! Where are the armed guards and Brink's trucks or their public equivalent? Anybody unauthorized to touch a ballot should catch a mag dump.

Greg The Class Traitor said...

Althouse asks: But why would anyone be in this situation? If you're going to go in a try to vote in person on election day, why would you vote by mail at an earlier point in time?

Because things happen. Because you might not be able to get their on Election Day, and if you can't then your vote is still in.

Some people like belt AND suspenders

Greg The Class Traitor said...

The State Board has a dedicated investigations team that investigates allegations of double voting, which are referred to prosecutors when warranted

Ah, so if a registered Republican does it, they report it, and if a registered Democrat does it, they don't?

How about "we always and aggressively follow up every attempt to cheat the election system"?

They can't say that, because it's not true

Because Democrats like vote fraud

boatbuilder said...

I am more concerned that my daughter and son, both of whom left the state many years ago but who got unsolicited ballots mailed to our home, might nonetheless be counted as having voted. Unless they actually show up and check (which they won’t ) who would know? Multiply this prospect by all of the unsolicited ballots mailed to the dead and departed, and the potential for abuse seems rather large here.
I don’t trust the system-especially when the new stuff is all pushed by one rather untrustworthy party.

Greg The Class Traitor said...

reader said...
But...it makes my feel fidgety to have the state have an electronic information packet directly tied to my (most likely?) scannable ballot.

Yep, that sounds like an invitation to fraud by the election officials.

It's yet another reason why early voting shouldn't be allowed, and absentee voting / vote by mail should be strictly controlled / regulated / limited to those with a valid excuse.

Because you shoudl not lose your vote because someone else "early voted" in your name.
You shoudl not lose your vote because someone else sent in a mail in ballot in your name.

You show up at teh election site, you show your State issued photo ID to prove who you are, and that you're a citizen of the State where you're voting, and you vote.

After all those ballots are tabulated, you go through the mailed in ballots, throwing out any ballots where that same person voted in person. No "electronic record" needed, because nothing was added to any counts before all voting was over.

John henry said...

I was working in the living room and my wife had CNN on. I know, I know. But I love her.

I normally don't pay much attention but Fredo was really, REALLY, upset that his president was advising people to vote twice.

Almost foaming upset.

First I'd heard but I figured that if it worked him into such a lather, good on PDJT.

Later I found out what was going on and it was NOT PDJT sayng vote twice.

I think he couches it in such confusing language on purpose. Some people say he was unclear, I think it was a carefully crafted statement.

Now it is on CNN and I would guess MSNBC and the other news outlets. People who would never pay any attention to him because they are good demmies are seeing this and thinking about how easy it must be to vote twice. Perhaps they will see it as a problem.

Perhaps they will tighten up the process to prevent Trumpistas from voting twice.

One can hope.

If there is ever a Nobel for trolling one's political opponents, they should give it to Donald Trump and then retire the award.

John Henry

MayBee said...

Yesterday showed me that people do not know their voting rights. They do not know their voting options.
We already knew that states are not forthcoming about their procedures. How can you get yourself off a voting roll? How do they purge voters rolls and how are they maintained?
Who is handling absentee ballots? As Althouse said yesterday, what happens if you show up to vote and they say you sent in an absentee ballot--- but you didn't?

I will tell you last election I went to vote and they told me I already had. I have a really uncommon last name, and I knew my son had voted earlier so I asked them to check to see if he was marked as having voted. He was not.
So they had to reassign his vote and then give me my ballot. It was all really weird, and kind of lucky that I knew what mistake was probably made.

Why is voting so murky and mysterious? Why did people freak out so much thinking you *could* vote twice if that's what Trump was suggesting?

But why would anyone be in this situation? If you're going to go in a try to vote in person on election day, why would you vote by mail at an earlier point in time?

Sometimes your opinion changes. Some states even allow you to re-cast your ballot. Sometimes you don't trust the system.

eric said...

Imagine you are someone who believes the Democrats cheat. The only way they win elections is they use fraud. All kinds of fraud. Encourage illegal aliens to vote. Purchase votes with cigarettes. Hire people to vote multiple times. Etc.

Now imagine a new way to encourage your voters to defeat Hitler is to vote twice. First, you'll get a mail in ballot you didn't request and then you'll get to vote in person. Oh! And to help you out, have you heard of all the chaos in voting? Zero chance you're going to get caught doing this. So why not, Democrat voter? Go ahead and vote twice. We promise to limit the controls over this so it'll be easy.

Then Trump comes along and exposes the entire scheme. By encouraging HIS voters to do this. Now what? Now you've got to either put in controls to account for this type of fraud, or, Trump wins in a landslide.

Brilliant!

Owen said...

See also AG Barr’s interview with Wolf Blitzer on CNN where he explains —repeatedly, as he must to the deliberately obtuse Blitzer— why mail-in voting is fraught with risk of fraud and coercion. He cites the 2009 findings of former President Carter’s commission, as well as other academic and informed, independent sources, which point to such dangers. He notes that this move at this scale at this speed and without test cycles and proper challenges is unprecedented. Spoiler alert: He says “We are playing with fire.”

MayBee said...

wild chicken said...
All states should do more public 'splainin too. Tell people the law and how the safeguards work.

Our elections admin here is still little too "yeah we got this, no worries" to really reassure the voters.


Exactly!
The voter track thing is great....but what if your ballot doesn't get registered even though you sent it in? I believe you go and vote and it's a provisional ballot. But for heaven's sake....tell people!

It's all so murky and I have to believe its murky because they want it to be.

mikee said...

Scott Walker only won his first election as governor by causing the Dems to total their votes without knowing the Repub total - but thinking they did. Dems put in a large enough number of votes to win over Walker's stated vote total, adn then, mirabile dictu!, an entire precinct (or county?) of votes, mostly for Walker, were found to have been left out of his reported total. HAHAHAHAHA

And it apparently was an innocent mistake, explained clearly on TV at the time it happened by the election officials who made that mistake in reporting. Well, anyway, Walker won.

Trump will win, too. Bigly.

StoughtonSconnie said...

Although it’s in Dane County, I generally trust that in my small town our city clerk will faithfully deliver all of the early vote ballots to the correct precincts as required. But if I were in a crazy progressive stronghold like Madison, Milwaukee, Chicago, etc.? Not a chance. And mail it? Not after the postal service workers endorsed Biden. For my friends in the left who think that’s paranoid, ask yourself this: would you be more or less likely to vote by mail if the NRA had the responsibility for transporting all mailed ballots, rather than USPS?
The best route for right-of-center voters is to vote in person on Election Day. The problem is that in any decent-sized blue city, which is most of them, the lefty leadership knows that, and will put up as many barriers to it as they can. Reduced and inconvenient polling locations, understaffing, disallowing GOP observers, looking the other way when BLM/Antifa show up to intimidate voters. It’s all been done in limited doses before, and will happen on a massive scale this year.

rcocean said...

The question is NOT is voting twice illegal. Jay walking is illegal. The question is:

Are there sufficient controls in place to PREVENT votes from being voted twice?

To repeat, no one has gone to jail for voting twice. The D's constantly say there is no significant vote fraud, so they are not - repeat not- putting people in jail for it.

Trump is saying, make sure your vote is counted. I'm more concerned with D election officials in swing states turning a blind eye to people voting once in person and once by mail.

rcocean said...

BTW, a liberal talk show host is STILL talking about Trump telling people to vote twice (har, har). They just fucking lie about Trump over and over and over again.

rcocean said...

finally, i see no follow up to a federal judge ordering votes mailed on election day be counted in Georgia. Is the R party going to appeal this? We should be fighting to make sure the election is concluded on Tuesday. We should not be encouraging mail in voting that will mean weeks of waiting to determine who won.

MayBee said...

YoungHegelian said...

Yes!! The Dem Iowa Caucus App says "hello!"

stevew said...

Wolf Blitzer attempted to grill AG Barr about the feared fraud from mail in voting. He demanded that Barr validate his concerns about such a voting scheme by citing examples where the feared fraud had materialized. Barr snarked an answer that he has no examples because a scheme like this, on this scale, has never been tried, thus he was relying on logic to assess the threat. Wolf tried a rejoinder, "what about absentee ballots". Weak challenge, implies Barr, that is not the same thing as this grand mail out/mail back voting scheme.

Someone named Steph Solis reported on her (?) experience voting twice in the most recent MA primaries and how it worked perfectly, i.e.; only one of her votes counted. And she was not arrested.

Go Ahead and Vote Twice - It works like a charm!

There is only one conclusion I can draw from all this: Orange Man Bad. Again.

Night said...

At my last residence a person could legally vote twice. Once as a provisional via the mail and once in person pulling a lever. The provisional was if there was a question about your voting status. Go ahead and vote and the elections office would sort it out later ... if the race was close and needed to be audited. IF it wasn't close both ballots counted and no one every checked. Yes a Democrat run state trying to make voting easier. It was already easy. So many people voted provisional then went to the polls and tried to vote in person. Some were allowed some weren't but all went away happy in the experience that they had vote once or twice. I only voted once so my rights were being diluted by the scardy cats.

Fraud occurs every where. Why do we think hotly contested elections with numerous bad actors are pristine and pure? It is just that the rules to prove fraud are too rigorous for the election department budget and the staffing manpower of any election office.

What would make an election reliable with a level of confidence? Voter ID in person. Provide assistance to the person if they need an ID and assistance in mobility to the polling stations. I can't check the status of my voter registration online without a DMV ID number.

Trump is doing the right thing here in asking that we be clear about what a vote is.

Night said...

The lesson should be obvious. Voting by mail is a quagmire. Don't do it.

Those states that have it. Well that's where I was. They produce a system that lets them gloss over any issues.

Night said...

Going postal is going to take on a new meme this year.

Night said...

This is Trump saying. "If you are going to vote twice, then I am going to vote twice. Just to keep it fair." People getting upset about his statement are a day late and a dollar short or have already voted twice.

Night said...

The confusion points out that 60 days before an important election is not the time to change any voting rules.

Night said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Night said...

This is just a theory by North Carolina leaders. They don't have a robust auditing system in place like that. A little bit of fraud to track and the manpower requirements will collapse them. The business decision they make is not to track anything UNLESS the news media catches a really bad actor AND brings it to the publics attention.

Maybe this is a good time to test North Carolinas system and ask everyone in that state to try and vote twice.

It will be utter failure.

Bill Harshaw said...

Simple story: his lawyers and PR people are cleaning up his mess from yesterday. Might have the ironic result that Trump supporters will gain a better understanding of the mail ballot process and the safeguards included in it.

mccullough said...

So when the BallotTrax system crashes like Obama’s health insurance website, then what?

John Althouse Cohen said...

Trump’s Press Secretary bears down: “[Trump] is asking people to vote by mail, then to go down to the polling place on Election Day, and vote again....”

Trump is supposedly responding to those who've said voter fraud or mail fraud is rare. But Trump's response is to tell people to make fraud more common!

That's like encouraging people to shoplift in order to see how good the police are at catching shoplifters. No, that's dumb, because if people take you seriously then people will shoplift more, and we know the police don't have a 100% record at stopping crime.

Trump doesn't get to use the excuse that he's only joking or making a point when he publicly calls on people to engage in wrongdoing. The same thing happened when he encouraged Russians to do surveillance against Hillary Clinton. He has a pattern of doing this out in the open, while he knows he's on video, as if that means he couldn't have done something wrong because he felt no need to hide it.

When he does this kind of thing, it isn't a joke. It's a systematic attempt to cause disruptions that benefit him, while having plausible deniability.

It doesn't even matter how you or I interpret him. What matters is whether some of his followers take him seriously. And we can bet they will.

mccullough said...

We can bet Dems will commit fraud as well.

Trump is telling the state and local officials to improve their systems. They have to now.

Gusty Winds said...

With the Postal Union openly endorsing Biden, and the outside being coded D or R for registered voters, votes will be dumped. If you mail in your vote, you should make sure it is counted. This is ripe for a lot of Democrat vote fraud.

Meade said...

"Trump is supposedly responding to those who've said voter fraud or mail fraud is rare. But Trump's response is to tell people to make fraud more common!"

Not true. He is telling voters to test the (shaky) system. If they find their mailed-in vote has been tabulated — fine, they voted. Don't vote again. We can bet that everyone knows it's illegal to intentionally vote more than once.

But if your mail-in vote has NOT been tabulated, by going to the poll on Nov. 3 and checking, you will still have a chance to vote. On Nov. 3. In person.

Laslo Spatula said...

"...because if people take you seriously then people will shoplift more, and we know the police don't have a 100% record at stopping crime. ..."

So: throw the doors open nationwide but only let the usual shoplifters do the shoplifting. Of whom the police will catch except for the ones they don't.

I can't quite put my finger on it.

I am Laslo.

Birkel said...

JAC is lying in his comments.

Trump was talking about an illegal server that had already been taken offline. How could that be "encourag(ing) Russians to do surveillance against Hillary" which is present and future tense? Do you have a time machine you intended to loan the Russia, Russia, Russians?

Quit lying.

As for the rest of your comment, are you saying voting twice would be easy with mail-in voting?

Then thanks for fucking admitting Trump's point.

We appreciate your candor.

Birkel said...

Bill Harshaw,
Which protections are those? Name them. Be specfic.

Ann Althouse said...

John, you left off the end of the quote! You said "Trump’s Press Secretary bears down: “[Trump] is asking people to vote by mail, then to go down to the polling place on Election Day, and vote again....”

But she said: "he is asking people to vote by mail, then to go down to the polling place on Election Day, and vote again if they can’t confirm the vote has been counted." The "if" phrase is crucial.

He's talking about a way to ensure that you get to vote once that is done by going in and trying to vote and getting stopped the way they're supposed to stop you. You go in in person and if the mailed in vote was "tabulated," you won't be on the voting rolls and they stop you. If your mailed in vote shows up later, they'll see that you voted in person and they won't count it. So neither way do you succeed in voting twice and that was the intent all along, so it's not a violation of the law.

The statement by the board of elections person confirms that the system is set up to prevent double voting, and Trump's advice is based on the assurance that the system is secured against double voting. If a voter relies on the truth of that statement, the voter isn't in violation but is just making sure to be counted.

Birkel said...

Alternative JAC comment:

How dare Trump tell people to rob the bank that closed two years ago?

The horror!

Ann Althouse said...

I never said I thought Trump was joking. I think he's taking the danger of cheating seriously and pressuring the state to have a secure system. The pressure is serious and I think the state will do as well as it can to avert the problem.

DaveL said...

I have met a lot of Democrats (there are no Republicans to speak of where I live) who are worried about the Post Office and are planning to do exactly what Trump suggested: go to the polls and see if your ballot is checked off as having come in by mail, and vote if it hasn't. If it is not checked off and a mail ballot turns up it will be discarded.

It is perfectly legal in many states, including my own. I have no idea in what states it is not legal.

MayBee said...

So people......

You send in your ballot and IF your state has a tracking system and your ballot isn't registered as received by Election Day, what do you do?

You send in your ballot and your state doesn't have a tracking system but you are concerned your vote didn't arrive in time, what do you do?

You go to vote and it says you've sent in a ballot already, what do you do?

How do you know if you've received a mail-in ballot at a previous address.

Do people care about these things? They seem pretty important to me!

James Pawlak said...

After all, President Trump is NOT a Chicago (Obamaland) Democrat who follows their maxim of: Vote Early AND OFTEN".

Rick.T. said...

Meade demonstrates superior reading and listening skills.

Drago said...

JAC: "Trump is supposedly responding to those who've said voter fraud or mail fraud is rare. But Trump's response is to tell people to make fraud more common!"

Wrong. Clearly.

Be better.

Leland said...

My, what a tangled web we weave when we decide to allow general mail-in voting.

Ann Althouse said...

Here's the relevant part of the press secretary's transcript:

John: (02:58)
Kayleigh, do you acknowledge that it is illegal in this country to vote twice in the same election?

Kayleigh McEnany: (03:03)
Are you referring to the president’s comments earlier today?

John: (03:06)
I’m just asking you a basic yes or no question. Do you believe it is illegal to vote twice in this country?

Kayleigh McEnany: (03:11)
The president does not condone unlawful voting. The president’s been very clear about this. I’m one again not surprised the media is taking the president out of context. Do you recall what the president said on this matter specifically?

John: (03:23)
I have it right here, sure.

Kayleigh McEnany: (03:23)
Okay, maybe you should read it out for me then.

John: (03:26)
Okay, so the president said that you should vote early by mail and that you should go either early voting or the day of and try to vote again. So he is asking people to vote by mail and then to go down to the polling place on Election Day and to vote again if they can’t confirm their vote has been counted.

Kayleigh McEnany: (03:50)
You’re missing a very crucial line from the president’s remarks. If it is not tabulated meaning your mail-in vote, then you will be able to vote in-person, if it is not tabulated. This is why –

John: (04:02)
Kayleigh, there are at least five states in this country that do not count any mail-in votes until Election Day, so those votes won’t be counted until afterwards. So there’s no way to know whether or not their vote has been –

Kayleigh McEnany: (04:14)
There’s a very simple answer and this is how it works. First, a lot of states have what are called electronic poll books and what this means is that in realtime, this is updated, so if your vote is counted, they check the electronic poll book and you will not be able to vote in-person because your vote has been counted. There is a secondary situation so those who do not have electronic poll books, every single state in the country, you can cast a provisional ballot and that is a ballot that is there and if your vote that you have not mailed in is not counted, they will then count the provisional ballot and that is exactly what the president is referring to but what Democrats are doing is saying this, “We want an entire new system for voting,” one subject to fraud.

Kayleigh McEnany: (04:51)
Don’t take it from me, take it from Jimmy Carter, who said in 2005 as part of a bipartisan commission absentee ballots remain the largest source of potential voter fraud so what Democrats want you to do is say trust us but don’t verify. Don’t verify that your vote’s been counted, this president’s trying to enfranchise Americans which is exactly what he’s been saying. He wants every American to have a vote because he understands what Jimmy Carter understood and what so many of us understood until the president started putting the focus on mail-in voting and that was this, that it is subject to fraud, every vote should count and every American should verify that their vote is counted by going to their polling place. John.

John: (05:28)
What do you say to the executive director of the North Carolina Board of Electors who says that this would create a big problem on Election Night?

Kayleigh McEnany: (05:34)
What I would say is that the president has laid it out very clearly, you should verify your vote and not only then I would point them to the fact that in 2016, before we tried this entire new system of mass mail-out voting, 319,000 votes were not counted that were cast by mail, 319,000 in an election that came down really to 80,000 votes in Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Michigan. That’s untenable and hundreds of thousands more will not be counted with the Democrat’s fraudulent mass mail-out voting system. The president wants enfranchisement, plain and simple. John.

Unknown said...

Just another case of the democrats accusing someone of doing what they are in fact doing now.

EsoxLucius said...

I also don't think the Hairy Cheeto is joking, but willfully tearing down the electoral system that he perceives he's loosing. His party sees that as well, as they've gone back to talking about the deficit after four years of spending like a sailor. I'm not much for predictions, but the first rule of holes is that when you're in one stop digging and he seems incapable of doing that.

Birkel said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
narciso said...

it's rather simple, only if the ballot has not been counted, do you vote, as to the dnc server, imagine if the watergate office was unlocked, and so were the file cabinets, imagine further they didn't send the police, but a photographer, that look pictures of the filing cabinets and didn't dust for prints, present those pictures as evidence,

Jason said...

Hi, Professor!

This would be a great opportunity to straighten out your son, who is still falling for the "Fine People on Both Sides" lie.

JAC are you aware of what Professor Althouse has written on this matter, and of the transcripts and unedited video of this press conference?

Do you have any rebuttal to the actual event?

Thanks in advance!

P.S. 1.) Do you also think that Sarah Palin said "I can see Russia from my house?"

2.) Did you also believe Jussy Smullet, like Kamala Harris did?

3.) Did you also fall for "plastic turkey?"

4.) Did you also fall for "hands up, don't shoot?"

5.) Did you also fall for Heartbreak Fridge and the Case of the Smirking Racist Schoolboy?


Narayanan said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Birkel said...

EsoxLucius,

On November 4th please come back.
I will need your tears.

Birkel said...

McEnany: "...mail-out..."

Precisely so

Greg The Class Traitor said...

John Althouse Cohen said...
It doesn't even matter how you or I interpret him. What matters is whether some of his followers take him seriously. And we can bet they will.

Hi John, do you think Trump is "literally Hitler"?

But, of course, it doesn't matter what you and I think. What matters is how many Biden voters take that charge seriously, and so will happily try to double vote in order to keep Hitler from winning the election.

Right?

Or is that vote fraud ok to you?

I'm Not Sure said...

Democrats support "Vote By Mail" but are upset about Trump supposedly telling people to vote twice?

The problem here seems clear. And it doesn't have anything to do with Trump.

Rich Vail said...

Ann, why worry? Election night will only tell Democrats just how many votes they ha be manufacture in order to win. After all, that's how Al Franken won his 1st election. Enough absentee ballots are "found" to put him over the top. Why shoulda presidential election be a any different?

Jamie said...

would you be more or less likely to vote by mail if the NRA had the responsibility for transporting all mailed ballots, rather than USPS?

This is exactly what I'm going to ask. And when my interlocutor says, "But the NRA are a bunch of hard-right gun nuts, and the USPS employees are upstanding government employees [sic]," I shall reply, "...who, as a group, have endorsed Biden for president. Can you at least acknowledge that if the NRA was in charge of delivering the mailed ballots, you might be concerned about your ballot's safe arrival? Now, can you see why Republicans might have their doubts about putting their mailed ballots in the hands of people who have publicly and enthusiastically endorsed the other guy?"

Ken B said...

The “really” is inapt. It was perfectly plain he was never talking about voting twice. That was your misreading.

DavidUW said...

I plan on voting twice.

Michael K said...

The toxicologist is getting steadily more toxic. At least you not another anonymous troll. You are an identifiable troll.

FullMoon said...

Yesterday he said vote by mail, go in person to make sure your ballot was received, if not logged in, vote again in person. Not two votes, one definitely recorded vote.

Seemed obvious to poorly educated me.

FullMoon said...

John Althouse Cohen said... [hush]​[hide comment]

Trump’s Press Secretary bears down: “[Trump] is asking people to vote by mail, then to go down to the polling place on Election Day, and vote again....”


"So he is asking people to vote by mail and then to go down to the polling place on Election Day and to vote again if they can’t confirm their vote has been counted.

good one JAC.

FullMoon said...

The same thing happened when he encouraged Russians to do surveillance against Hillary Clinton.

Bears repeating, for fun. Also, golden showers. Collusion. Handicapped guy.

iowan2 said...

John Althouse Cohen said...
It doesn't even matter how you or I interpret him. What matters is whether some of his followers take him seriously. And we can bet they will.


Like Obama telling his supporters to bring guns to fights with Republicans? Thats what he said.

iowan2 said...

I opened up my Absentee ballot request tonight. Straight forward. Fill out the boxes and mail in to request a ballot. Instructed me to post mark my request 10 days before the General Election. Absentee ballots must be postmarked day of election. This is plenty of time for USPS to do their thing. Not sure what all the media hype is about.

On the radio I heard several takes on Trumps recommendations. Lots of guests gave their opinion. Not a single legal expert on election law, or state officer responsible of elections was interviewed. That is the first and only sign, revealing the media had no interest in facts, only narrative.

Narayanan said...

so professor : if Kayleigh (she is legally blonde - I checked) was in your class - how would you grade her on the give and take

I watched this last night My Cousin Vinny (The Most Accurate Legal Comedy?)
My Cousin Vinny


I found one for Legally Blonde | LegalEagle
Legally Blonde

Yancey Ward said...

Wow, that transcript would embarrass me if I were the reporter asking those questions. You either have to have shit for your brains to ask those questions in that way and then not even understand the McEnany's carefully phrased and lucid answers; or you just have to have shit for your integrity.

This is the thing I just can never wrap my mind around- if one really isn't that stupid, then don't they feel any embarrassment at having to act like it? I simply couldn't do it, which means I will never be a White House press correspondant since they all appear to be complete fucking morons.

Bill R said...

Vote THOUSANDS of time. Request a mail in ballot. Copy it thousands of times and send it in. This is the Democratic strategy this year. If you are not a Democrat, this is the only way your vote can possibly count.

VOTE

VOTE

VOTE

Vote thousands of times.


Yancey Ward said...

Althouse Jr.,

I hope that was an attempt at parody- it is the sort of comment a person like Inga, ARM, or Freder would write with complete seriousness. If it was parody, then well done- you fooled me at first, and your Mom.

Francisco D said...

Ann Althouse said...
I never said I thought Trump was joking. I think he's taking the danger of cheating seriously and pressuring the state to have a secure system. The pressure is serious and I think the state will do as well as it can to avert the problem.

Yes, but you are a serious person. The game planning is to create chaos over the election when Trump wins.

From a more strategic perspective, what do you surmise is the goal?

Francisco D said...

I love the smell of liberal flop sweat in the morning. It smells like ... Victory!

However, the Left will recreate the December Revolution this November. Count on it.

Birkel said...

Trump will win every state he won in 2016 plus a few.
The Leftist Collectivists will try BAMN some more.

But with the House controlled by Speaker McCarthy, a fat lot of good it will do them.
Also, I expect Chairman Jim Jordan to be dogged in his pursuit of corruption.
Hello Marie Yavonovitch!
Hello Colonel Vindman!
Hello Adam Schiff!

Oh, and the expanded majority in the Senate, after picking up MN, MI, AL, and perhaps a surprise state or two...
Well Mitt Romney can switch parties and quit pretending.

BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

we already know the corruptocrats are liars. We already know they will cheat. I fully expect a massive amount of fraud perpetuated on behalf of Biden/D's.

bagoh20 said...

"These alternatives sound much more orderly than Trump's method."

A new government website will fix it all. How did that work with the Obamacare website?

If you trust some unaccountable people at some website with no transparency to protect your vote and our elections, you probably think the FBI under Obama was nonpartisan. Sheese!

Trump suggestion will force the issue into the sunlight and your orderly ones will nicely hide the problem, so let's just not rock the boat. You already got your precious pension. You can rock the damned boat now.

daskol said...

Trump really doesn't want mail-in voting. If Trump gets Democrats to think mail-in voting could help him, and his supporters begin encouraging it, it's quite likely they'll respond in the apparent Pavlovian way they;'vie developed of automatic strident opposition.

daskol said...

If there is supposedly widespread mail-in voting, however, and discovered votes later thrust an election night victory (Trump's) into contention, for a lot of currently peaceable people that's going to be flame-thrower time. Is it chaos to try to reduce the Dem margin of fraud through encouraging extremely conscientious voting of people who'd never commit voter fraud, but may end up getting two votes this year anyway? Even if it helps to avert flamethrower time? I don't think it's chaos. It's how you do politics in a chaotic arena.

John Marzan said...

What if somebody else besides Ted under your name in the mail in ballot?

RichAndSceptical said...

As usual, Trump set a trap for Democrats. If they claim that is voting twice, they prove Trump's point about how easy it is to commit voter fraud by mail.

Nichevo said...

I wouldn't be surprised, or upset, if PDT or his people were at least prepared tactically to play the trunks full of ballots game. I wouldn't love it, but as a deterrent or counter to D trunks, it would be logical.

Even as a stunt - 'here are a million ballots made out for me, the only reason you can tell they're fake is I have the Kinko's receipt right here.'