If we can parse what he's saying here, it's illegal.
— Vote Save America (@votesaveamerica) September 3, 2020
Even if we can't, it's illegal.
Vote. Vote once. Don't vote for him. https://t.co/paMdqe3pIj https://t.co/zoF1TSEkEl
September 2, 2020
Very confusing and inflammatory advice from Trump on how to vote.
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I just read an article on Masslive that advised doing the same thing. Vote by mail and then vote in person to make sure your vote counts. This story was told, and advice given, to reassure that your vote will be counted, but only once.
I Voted by Mail and In Person
Seems like Trump is saying go check if your mail-in ballot was tabulated and, if it wasn't, go vote in person.
Probably in response to the reports about Postal workers deliberately diverting ballots sent from Republican districts.
I dont get what's illegal about it. He's saying make sure you vote and make sure it counts. Am I missing something?
Very clever, boy.
If you're going to vote in person, why would you vote by mail?
I understand how if you vote first by mail you might worry that it won't get counted, but if you're solution is to *also* vote in person, why are you choosing to vote twice?!
It seems to be deliberate chaos... and it's advising people to commit a crime.
Now... I do understand that it is lighting a fire under state authorities to have a system that will catch double voters.
Are we all going to have to send the next news cycle pretending Trump was seriously telling his supporters to commit voting fraud.
I was told at my polling place that if I had mailed in a ballot I could vote in person and the mail in would be canceled, I thought it was for people who changed their mind.
TRUMP: “If you get the unsolicited ballots, send it in and then go, make sure it counted, and if it doesn’t tabulate, you vote. … send it in early and then go and vote, and if it’s not tabulated, you vote, and the vote is going to count. You can’t let them take your vote away."
I think this is good. With the messy transition to mail-in voting, there are going to be a lot of election-eve and post-election lawsuits to keep polls open, to allow extra provisional balloting and to keep waiting and waiting for more mail-in ballots to arrive. Anything that the Democrats might come up with to run up vote totals in Detroit, Milwaukee, Philadelphia and Cleveland Trump should start pushing for Republicans to do now. We want these people on the record that all the elements of confusion they are introducing have to be dealt with and that strict protocols need to be followed to prevent cheating or accidental over-voting.
One of the best things Trump did in 2016 was to hedge on accepting a loss before talking to his lawyers and announcing that he expected massive fraud that his lawyers were getting ready for. In past elections, Detroit, Milwaukee and Miami-Dade kept discovering new ballots for weeks until certain races changed. All three finished their main counts in a pretty reasonable amount of time in 2016, I think because they realized they were in the spotlight.
If Trump wants to win, he needs to keep a spotlight on potential fraud, potential over-voting and potential problems from the switch to mail-in voting. Publicly speculating about ways things might get messed up and what Republicans should do about it is the best way to keep big city Democrats on the defensive and keeping good enough records that they can't "accidentally" make a lot of mistakes in one party's favor. He still has to win, too, but reducing the margin for fraud will help and the best way to do that is to make Democrats worry that they're up against someone who will only hold himself to rules they hold themselves to.
How in hell can any of us know our vote is tabulated and counted correctly? This sounds idiotic.
Vote by ham radio is another option.
Trump is saying if you vote by mail and its not counted, go in person and vote. I think. Or maybe he's saying vote in person because you can make sure its counted. Or maybe he's saying "Vote Twice". which brings up the question. Who is in charge of making sure people don't vote twice?
what's to stop someone from voting by mail on Monday, and voting in person on Tuesday? We're counting on the people counting the mail-in votes AFTER election day to prevent double votes. But will the Democrats do that? You tell me.
And BTW, a Fed Judge just ruled the mail-in votes ONLY have to postmarked by election day.
We know the Democrats are going to cheat.
The average Democrat will not even feel bad about it.
I am not going to listen to anything the media says about this.
Especially not a statement that makes perfect sense to anyone who doesn’t try to purposely twist Trump’s words like Ann is doing.
If everybody in the world lit just one little candle, somebody would probably light two. - Roger Price, 1950s
Althouse says "Its a crime" but so what? Will anyone be prosecuted for it?
No. Has any illegal alien been prosecuted for voting by mail? Maybe one or two. Dead people vote in Chicago, who goes to jail for that? what Democrat Big City prosecutes people for vote fraud unless its on a massive scale? None.
It seems to be deliberate chaos... and it's advising people to commit a crime.
Sending out automatic unsolicited ballots is deliberate chaos. There is absolutely no way to determine if people mailed in their votes, if those mail votes got to the election office, or if the legal person it was sent to was the actual person who cast the vote.
Trump is pointing out the impossibility of govt making sure that those voting by mail are prevented from also voting in person.
So Trump talks about The Chicago Way, and it's illegal. Hmmm...
Still, thinking on a different tangent, I can't help but wonder, given the toddler attention span of most Americans, if we haven't seen peak Trump already in the polls. The Dems, according to National People's Republic Radio, hauled-in over $360 million in donations in August. That's a lot of media time to be buyin'. With the NYT squealing with delight that Late-to-the-Party Joe is going to do ads condemning looting, I am just reminded it's a long way to November.
Really, Althouse, you didn't understand that? The key word there was "unsolicited". Trump is warning his voters that their "mail in ballots" might not be authentic ones, especially when they are unsolicited. It is a known method of suppressing the vote- send the opponent's voters fake ballots- they think they voted and actually haven't.
Indeed, as I read that, it is very difficult to not understand what Trump is saying- it almost takes a deliberate intent to misread it.
"This is going to be a fucking disaster." ~ Bernard Shaw 1993.
"Now... I do understand that it is lighting a fire under state authorities to have a system that will catch double voters."
It is also possible that Trump is encouraging exactly that, but he is definitely not encouraging his voters to vote twice- he is telling them to make double sure that their vote isn't tossed into the trash or is conned out of them with a fake ballot.
this is well worth a watch.
Here in MT if a mail vote was received your name wouldn't even appear in the poll book, or it would be flagged as voted. They print that thing off the night before.
You can also check with the secy of state to see if it was received.
But maybe my unimportant low-pop state is more functional than the others. I can even call and actually talk to a human.
Just had the discussion this evening with my wife as absentee ballot request form came in the mail. Ohio. Only reason to vote absentee would be a concern with polling places being open/crowded/staffed on voting day. I plan to vote in person. Either early or on Election Day. Son is away at college. He plans to come home to early vote in person. Don’t trust the mail. Son voted absentee last time and vote was rejected as signatures didn’t match. They don’t teach cursive any longer and kids don’t have signatures. He said he wasn’t letting that happen again.
To be clear, I don’t know what the law in North Carolina is. Maybe it’s not a crime.
Oh for pity sake.
I have worked the Wisconsin polls for a decade in various communities and this happens all the time.
This is how it works.
1. As a poll worker we get a list of people in our ward that have requested absentee ballots.
2. We mark that fact in the signature book next to their name.
3.(a) If they come in and try vote in person they must sign the book.
3.(b) If we have not yet processes their absentee ballot they can get a ballot and vote.
3.(c) If we later find their absentee ballot there is a process to void that ballot. And mark the ballot as void so it CANNOT be run through the machine.
4.(a) When we process an absentee ballot we must go the signature book and actually get a voter number slip and the book is marked that it was processed as the number in the slip.
4.(b) We then turn in the number to the number collector (where an in person voter would get their ballot).
4.(c) We take the absentee ballot and run it through the machine and wait for the beep to make sure the vote has been registered.
I use the word “we” because there is always a minimum of two volunteers that process absentee ballots.
We confirm with each other what we are doing at all times and if a ballot has to be voided because someone has already voted in person
BOTH VOLUNTEERS have to sign off on that voiding of the ballot.
Yes! Absentee ballots are a pain in the ass to process.
As a poll worker I much prefer people coming in person to vote.
But, since it is not my decision I take extraordinary care in processing absentee ballots so their vote counts BUT ONLY ONCE!
This is information from City of Madison in 2016:
Q: When are absentee ballots counted?
A: No matter when people submit their absentee ballots, they are counted on Election Day, Madison city clerk Maribeth Witzel-Behl said.
Absentee ballots are checked into a poll book when they are received, Witzel-Behl said, and poll workers then feed the ballots into a tabulator machine on Nov. 8 as other voters cast their ballots at polling places. Witzel-Behl said poll workers take precautions to maintain the status of a secret ballot.
“They process at least three absentee ballots at a time to preserve the secrecy of your vote,” Witzel-Behl said.
So, it sounds like if your ballot has been received, the poll book will reflect that you have already submitted a ballot. You will be ineligible to vote again.
If your ballot has not been received, the poll book will not reflect that you have already submitted a ballot. Thus you will be eligible to vote.
If your mail in ballot is received after you have voted (before the end of the day), when the poll workers go to the poll book to log it, they will reject the ballot as the poll book will show that you have already voted.
Just Ask Us: When are absentee ballots counted?
Maybe Trump made an inelegant statement, but I think it is stretch to say he is promoting some kind of illegal behavior.
Will be interesting to see who piles on and makes an ass of themselves. For some reason, I think the "corrections" will help Trump get the message out that if one is doubtful that their ballot made it in time on election day, they can still make sure their vote counts.
Imagine if significant numbers of people who mailed their votes in with plenty of time to spare show up on election day and find that their mailed in votes are a "no show." Maybe some will be smart enough to take a picture of their envelope as they drop it in the mail slot. Imagine if the Postal Service realizes there may be a higher level of scrutiny of their performance.
OFFS!!! Jesus Fucking Christ and his brother Harry on a Pogo-stick!!! Stop purposefully trying to twist this man's words to make it seem like he said something he didn't... Just like Charlottesville... there is no lie or fabrication the left will not champion in their quest for power...
Trump can CLEARLY be understood to say that, because of the MASSIVE potential voter fraud that the Dem's are planning, that *IF* you vote by mail, make fucking sure it was counted by going down to your assigned voting location to check (because we all know that the Dem's will do everything in their power to ensure Trump supporter's can't vote once, let alone twice...), and *IF YOUR MAIL-IN VOTE WAS NOT COUNTED*, then vote in person to ensure the Dem's are unable to cheat their way to victory...
It's clear as fucking day to anyone not completely succumbed to TDS... it's really not that hard to understand the man if you try...
Massachusetts Sec of State let’s you track your mail-in ballot. I believe all mail-in ballots must be requested.
That said Mass is a safe Dem stronghold, so no need to cheat.
https://www.sec.state.ma.us/wheredoivotema/track/trackmyballot.aspx
only Democrats are allowed to vote multiple times
Send in your car payment by registered mail. Check to see it arrived. If it was never delivered visit the bank and pay. Don’t give them an excuse to add a late fee!
Why is that confusing?
"Why are you choosing to vote twice?!
C'mon, man. You understand what he's saying. If it's true that voter fraud is not a problem, then they will not count both. How else can you test if the system is safe. Are we supposed to trust Democrats and the post office, which are as much the same thing as the media and Democrats. Do you trust the media?
If the citizens don't test the system who will? If there was a consented effort and a plan to test and validate, then yea, this would be uncalled for, but we all know nobody is going to do that, and many votes will be fraudulent. I bet a majority of American expect that to be substantial. Is that a good thing? People who are upset by what Trump said are admitting they don't trust the system either. If I trusted the system, I wouldn't mind Biden saying it. Of course saying it would make no sense if we trusted the system.
“If you're going to vote in person, why would you vote by mail?”
Do you carry fire insurance?
One reason to vote by mail is you might be stopped from voting by “protesters”. Are you completely confident there will e no disruption or violence? I am not.
SSDD
Has anything Trump's said in the past four years not been characterized as "confusing and inflammatory"?
It would appear there are a not insignificant number of people who are unfamiliar with the fable of the boy who cried wolf.
Its clear to me. Vote by mail early. Then go verify your own ballor. If its not verified then pull a levver.
The state I am in allows provisional ballots. You can cast the provisional. And if you think it didn't work you can go vote in the booth. The provisional ballots aren't audited unless the election is close.
The problem isn't what Trump said, but what the outrage proves about the system. It's an honor system with few safeguards and none that would thwart even a half-assed attempt at fraud. Imagine how nuts that is: an honor system in politics, and it's all we have protecting the whole enchilada. That alone is pure corruption, and it only exists because the Democrats alone want it that way.
Here's a question for our lefty friends:
What changes would you agree with to make the system more honest and reduce fraud?
Lets say you really care about your vote. If you knew a lot of people who were gong to vote opposite of you were going to vote twice like this, what would you do? What would you want done about it? That's where I find myself, and the only reasonable answer is stop mail in voting, but we know that won't happen, so now what?
That's one way to get Democrats to start talking about putting restrictions in place to prevent double voting. Before this, they just kept saying things are secure and there's no fraud.
If "Vote Save America" can't parse what President Trump is saying, they're idiots--or they're willfully stupid. It's perfectly clear:
If you receive an unsolicited mail-in ballot, USE it. Then contact the election authorities and make sure they GOT it. If not, vote in person.
It's safe and legal. The Democrats have assured us of that. There's no way mail-in ballots could be used for voter fraud, and if you voted by mail, there's no way you could ALSO vote in person. Right? If/when the Democrats lose their minds over Republicans voting twice, perhaps they can explain how--if Republicans could do, Democrats couldn't?
It's another classic Trump trap. Either what he's proposing is legal and won't result in double votes by Republicans OR it isn't, and then we can demand to know why the Democrats were fine with the system when they thought only their own voters would abuse it.
if you have not requested absentee ballot and get one regardless = are you on the roll or marked off? - when do you get marked off? if not marked off are you not eligible to vote?
in India you vote in person and stain your fingernail indubitably indelibly
USA has joke of election.
The problem isn't the vote being counted twice. It's that your mail in vote isn't counted at all, because it never got there, and it's in the city dump. How would you ever know that happened?
Yancey Ward said...
Really, Althouse, you didn't understand that? The key word there was "unsolicited". Trump is warning his voters that their "mail in ballots" might not be authentic ones, especially when they are unsolicited. It is a known method of suppressing the vote- send the opponent's voters fake ballots- they think they voted and actually haven't.
Indeed, as I read that, it is very difficult to not understand what Trump is saying- it almost takes a deliberate intent to misread it.
-----------=============
time to ponder what such minds can do to twist the Constitution of the USA
Is anyone who has the responsibility for the honesty of our elections telling us how we can be sure the votes by citizens are recorded as voted? From the Russians conspiracies, to illegal alien conspiracies, everyone in the process is undermining our trust in having legitimate elections.
I need to hear more on the methodology of ensuring those who are legally able to vote, vote once and have their vote counted, assurance those who are not legal to vote are not voting. I would like to hear more on vote counting integrity. It's easy right now for neither side to accept an election.
"One reason to vote by mail is you might be stopped from voting by “protesters”. Are you completely confident there will e no disruption or violence? I am not."
Great point. So what do we do if the toddler tantrum brigades decide to shut down polling? If they do, they will target conservative polling locations. Is the election still valid? We know the media will have no problem with that, and will pretend like it happened to both sides and didn't really change things if Trump loses. If Trump wins, the media will be suddenly and inexplicably outraged that Republicans were disenfranchised and call for invalidating the election.
Yancey Ward puts his finger on the key point. Unsolicited ballot.
Althouse really missed the point here. And will never acknowledge it.
This is a trial balloon for our host.
Pretending she thinks he is encouraging voter fraud.
If people agree with her, she can then say her famous: "That's how he lost me".
Later, after the election: "Gee, I really, really hated all the violence and destruction, but I just couldn't pull the lever for someone promoting VOTER FRAUD, boo boo. If only he didn't encourage that...".
Some very fine people vote by mail and then go in person to the polls on election day to ensure their ballots have been received and, if not, cast a vote in person.
3.(c) If we later find their absentee ballot there is a process to void that ballot. And mark the ballot as void so it CANNOT be run through the machine.
--------=============
missing a few steps here :
- find their absentee ballot >>> = envelope with their ballot in it.
- now do you open the envelope to void the ballot? or unopened envelope is marked VOID?
- can any body else (friend of a friend) knowing affiliation run that ballot through machine?
USA election is joke. cruel joke perpetrated by Hollerith - enable German to Nazi record keeping.
From Wikipedia, re The Federal Help America Vote Act of 2002:
Part of the Politics series
Vote icon Voting
Balloting
Ballots
Absentee ballot Provisional ballot Sample ballot
Candidates
Write-in candidate Electorate Slate Ticket
Collection
Ballot box Compulsory voting Early voting Electronic voting Open ballot Polling place Postal voting Precinct Vote center Voting booth
Counting
Popular vote Tally Voting machine
Electoral systems
Plurality and majoritarian systems
First-past-the-post voting Two-round system Instant-runoff voting Plurality-at-large voting General ticket
Proportional and semi-proportional systems
Single non-transferable vote Cumulative voting Binomial system Party-list Single transferable voting
Mixed systems
Majority bonus system Mixed-member systems Parallel voting
Voting strategies
Issue voting Split-ticket voting Straight-ticket voting Tactical voting Vote pairing
Protest votes
Abstention Donkey vote Election boycott None of the above Refused ballot Spoilt vote
Voting patterns and effects
Coattail effect Likely voter Paradox of voting Passive electioneering Vote splitting Voter apathy Voter fatigue Voter turnout
Protest votes
Electoral fraud
Ballot stuffing Felony disenfranchisement Voter suppression Caging
Prevention
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Politics portal
vte
A Californian voter fills out a provisional ballot form while voting in the 2004 United States presidential election
In elections in the United States, a provisional ballot is used to record a vote when there are questions about a given voter's eligibility that must be resolved before the vote can count. The federal Help America Vote Act of 2002 guarantees that, in most states, the voter can cast a provisional ballot if the voter states that he or she is entitled to vote.[1]
Some of the most common reasons to cast a provisional ballot include:
The voter's name does not appear on the electoral roll for the given precinct (polling place), because the voter is not registered to vote or is registered to vote elsewhere
The voter's eligibility cannot be established or has been challenged
The voter lacks a photo identification document (in jurisdictions that require one)
The voter requested to vote by absentee ballot but claims to have not received, or not cast, the absentee ballot
The voter's registration contains inaccurate or outdated information such as the wrong address or a misspelled name
In a closed primary (limited to members of a political party), the voter's party registration is listed incorrectly[1]
Whether a provisional ballot is counted is contingent upon the verification of that voter's eligibility, which may involve local election officials reviewing government records or asking the voter for more information, such as a photo identification not presented at the polling place or proof of residence.[1] Each state may set its own timing rules for when these issues must be resolved. Provisional ballots therefore cannot usually be counted until after the day of the election.[1]
It is a Federal Law!!!
what level of willful suspension of belief do you need to maintain or sustain the Gell-Mann Amnesia effect
Trump smart enough to swim among the sharks and survive - does not know other species of sharks
whoever used "super predator' before should polish up and apply to Trump in admiration
This is almost, but not as quite, as dishonest as the 'fine people on both sides' thing. Re-read what he said.
send it in and then go, make sure it counted, and if it doesn’t tabulate, you vote. … send it in early and then go and vote
Unclear, for sure. But that is exactly what I did in the primaries here in AZ:
Requested Mail in ballot
Several days later, checked with my county recorder online and verified my ballot had been received
If it hadn't, I was prepared to go in person and fill in a provisional ballot. Which is exactly as I think it should work, especially since everyone is so concerned about postal system delivery.
Why is this so controversial?
Belt and suspenders method
In Michigan, you can write in and get permission to spoil your absentee ballot and change your vote:
Spoiling an absent voter ballot
If a voter has already voted absentee and wishes to change their vote (because the candidate has dropped out of the race, or for any other reason), a voter can spoil their ballot by submitting a written request to their city or township clerk. The voter must sign the request and state if they would like a new absentee ballot mailed to them or if they will vote at the polls. This request must be received by 2 p.m. the Saturday before the election if received by mail. An absentee ballot may be spoiled in person at the clerk’s office until 4 p.m. the Monday prior to the election. The voter can obtain a new absentee ballot there or vote at the polls. There is no option on Election Day to spoil an absentee ballot that has been received by the clerk.
If it is actually voting twice, then it only proves Trump's point that mail-in voting can't be trusted or they would reject the later in person vote.
Plus nothing stops Biden voters from doing the same thing, obviously.
From what I understand, in California, you can sign up on line and track the progress of your ballot. It seems to me Trump is simply saying that if your ballot disappears into the ethers you should go vote in person.
https://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/ballot-status/wheres-my-ballot/
I think a lot of people are showing they don't know election laws.
But others here are right, as bagoh20 says just above me- if it is that easy to vote twice- if the states don't have a procedure for exactly what Trump said, then there's a big fraud possibility there.
Either
- by voters having no idea whether their mail-in vote was received and/or counted, and then their vote not being counted (someone steals the ballot, for example)
or
- by voters voting twice, both absentee and in person.
Both of those would be huge problems/opportunities, and states have to have ways to keep both of those things from happening.
Here's a question for our lefty friends:
What changes would you agree with to make the system more honest and reduce fraud?
Well, since they scoff at the very idea of voter fraud, perhaps the question would be more effectively worded, "What would you do to safeguard the electoral system against a dishonest incumbent administration that is determined to win by cheating if that's what it takes [since they think that's what they've got now], and reduce its vulnerability to fraud, such as hard-right activists going into neighborhoods with a lot of Biden signs and offering to mail people's ballots for them, but then just tossing them?"
But since they know what side most of us are on, they'll be all about the mythical "voter suppression" via voter id laws and not at all concerned about scenarios such as these. Too bad. We could use an honest discussion of this subject - though it's a little late now, I think.
Still... if the subject comes up among my own lefty friends to whom I'm not "out," I might just try it. Could get their attention, anyway.
Althouse can ( I assume ) parse complex legal arguments but can’t understand what Trump is saying here. Dishonest obtuseness or honest dumbness?
If you're belt is on why would you wear suspenders?
citizen-patriot or spy? Intelligence Gathering at Protests
If only there were a system in place to ensure voting twice couldn't happen...
I call Trump persuasion for the win...
"Here in MT if a mail vote was received your name wouldn't even appear in the poll book, or it would be flagged as voted. They print that thing off the night before."
What's the next step though? Let's say you show up to vote and learn that "your" vote has already been cast, but you didn't vote by mail. Is there a system for letting you make a provisional vote and then an investigation into the first use of your name to vote?
Presumably, there are provisional votes, but they don't matter unless there are enough to change the outcome. But I wonder how they trace the vote that came in by mail.
Narayanan said:
“ missing a few steps here :
- find their absentee ballot >>> = envelope with their ballot in it.
- now do you open the envelope to void the ballot? or unopened envelope is marked VOID?
- can any body else (friend of a friend) knowing affiliation run that ballot through machine?”
Absentee ballots are identified on the outside of the envelope in Wisconsin with what ward you reside in. That insures that if there are also local races your ballot is processed for the correct local race counts. (Remember there are usually many races on each ballot NOT just President, House of Representative, Senator)
Yes-you open the envelope to void the ballot. Both the absentee ballot envelope and the ballot itself are voided. You must record each void with a number and record WHY it is voided on a tally sheet and all voids are placed in a large lockable bag. And since two people have to verify a voided ballot both must sign both the voided ballot and the tally sheet so if there are questions later those people can be questioned.
You may know the voter on the envelope but because you have to check that ballot in with those running the poll book, plus you are working with another person to process the absentee ballot you have many different eyes on the ballot. You are doing this work in front of the whole polling station. Any and all polling locations can also have observers watch exactly what you are doing. They must remain a minimum of three feet but no further than than 6 feet from your work station so they can not see the name on the absentee voter envelope.or the ballot when it is taken out of the envelope.
Last Presidential election my observer was actually someone who knew me from a local election about a school referendum. She was a school teacher whi I butted heads with frequently about the need for a referendum.
By the end of the day she complimented by teammate and I on how thorough and consistent we were about our process.
Yes, you can have others who may not be so conscientious but at some point, IF YOU CHOOSE TO ABSENTEE VOTE, you are putting your vote in the hands of others. It can not be helped.
Which is why, as a poll worker, I say very loudly:
Get your ass to the polls and VOTE IN PERSON!
It’s confusing, but he’s not advocating voting more than once, he’s suggesting that you shouldn’t let yourself get cheated out of a vote by having your mail-in vote “lost.”
It’s typical Trump trolling, but he’s probably making a mistake here as a careless reader could easily conclude that he’s promoting multiple voting.
Some states allow ballot harvesting, which gives opportunity to change mail-in votes.
Next up,voting by telepathy.
Tabulation on the Psychic Hotline(D).
I agree with Meatpopscicle. While it might be the most elegantly crafted statement, it is entirely clear and benign.
I intend to vote far less than the Donald is suggesting.
What's the next step though? Let's say you show up to vote and learn that "your" vote has already been cast, but you didn't vote by mail. Is there a system for letting you make a provisional vote and then an investigation into the first use of your name to vote?
That's another problem. If "your" vote has already been cast via mail in and you say you didn't cast it, that is indeed a huge problem and you have to let someone important in voter fraud know.
There is supposed to be a system in place to cast a provisional ballot. And they do have a way to trace mail in ballots. But if it wasn't you, that's clearly voter fraud.
IF YOU CHOOSE TO ABSENTEE VOTE, you are putting your vote in the hands of others. It can not be helped.
Agree with this, Paminwi. (I have always until this very moment read your name as Pam-wini"
Europe countries tried shotgun mail-in voting in the 1970s. There was so much fraud they made it illegal.
A couple of commenters above allude to or directly say something that I increasingly believe to be true- you will only get more secure elections in this country when the Republican Party starts gaming the system hard- only then will Democrats come around to supporting clearing the rolls regularly, supporting photo ID, and heavily restricting mail-in-voting.
I think he's setting a deliberate trap. His opponents are predictably incensed about this, and are naturally parsing his rambling words in the most uncharitable way possible, but in order to do this, they need to recognize the susceptibility of mail-in voting to fraud.
The problem isn't the vote being counted twice. It's that your mail in vote isn't counted at all, because it never got there, and it's in the city dump. How would you ever know that happened?
worth a repeat
Is the system so weak that it is possible to double vote? Sounds like a systemic problem.
If the system is running properly, then if you vote in person your mailed in ballot will be tossed
If teh system isn't being run properly, a lot fo Democrats will be engaging in vote fraud, by voting mail in and at the polls
So our side should do it too.
You don't want this to be a problem? Then make sure the vote counters throw out every mail in vote where teh person also voted in person
So no vote counting or verifying before the in person voting ends
BTW, because the Democrat Judges won't allow it, many states don't require Voter ID. There's nothing to prevent you from sending in your ballot, and then going to the polls and voting for your friend or relative. Hey, too busy or don't care to vote? No worries, I'll go to the polls for you. Assuming you and your friend/relative aren't too far off in age/sex, its easy as pie.
In Calf its against the law to ask for proof of citizenship. So, any foreigner can vote as long as they're willing to lie and check a box saying "yes, I'm a citizen". There are no penalties and no one goes to jail. People who ARE US citizens SHOULD BE upset. But they aren't. same thing with age. No one verifies age. If you lie to the DMV and say you're 18 - you get to vote.
Democrats: If they're not contesting their loss of a fair election that was held four years ago, then they're contesting an election that hasn't even been held yet. Is there any party on the planet that is more unserious, ridiculous and unworthy?
Classic Trump trolling to get the media and regular people to think about what is being proposed with mail-in voting (which many people are conflating with absentee voting)
Good lord, with all of the things that have gone wrong this year why are we trying to court disaster trying to tempt faith with something that has never been tried before? A national presidential election done by mail-in voting?
The standard line from liberals are "Well there are 5 states that have allowed it and they said there wasn't that much fraud" What they leave out is it has taken those states years to refine and tinker with their system because of the initial counting problems and instances of fraud that took place.
I tried once to vote twice in an election, back in Baltimore. Voted in my home precinct, and tried to vote in the one I'd moved from 6 months earlier. But as a registered Republican, I was prevented from doing so. Voter rolls in Baltimore are kept very, very up to date for Repubs.
In that election, one precinct in Baltimore did not report until hours and hours after every other vote was counted, and guess what? Enough votes were cast there - almost in excess of the number of registered voters, but not quite - enough votes were cast to put the Dem governor candidate over the line. It was later reported as rumor that most of the votes in that precinct had only votes for Governor, none of any down ballot candidates. Go figure.
The only way to get Democrats to crack down on voter fraud is for Trump to suggest it.
Perfect.
I find it interesting that "Vote Save America" is trying to suppress Trump voters and saying a vote for Trump is illegal, or rather only legal if you vote once and don't vote for Trump.
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