September 12, 2020

"Sometimes called paltering, the artful use of small, truthful statements to convince people of a much grander lie is a common propaganda technique..."

"... In reality, the existence of arsonists is non-controversial. To wit, arsonists do not cease committing arson simply because of naturally occurring wildfires. Indeed, while revenge, extremism, and profit are all recognized motivations for arson, other fire-setters seek 'thrills, attention and recognition,' according to FEMA.... Close to midnight on Thursday, Facebook said that its third-party fact-checkers had rated as 'false' the allegations of coordinated attacks, which had by that hour spread to hundreds of thousands of its users... Kyle Reyes, the national spokesman for Law Enforcement Today, emphasized in an email that while LET did cite a police source claiming fires may be part of a 'coordinated and planned' attack, LET did not attribute the claim to any specific group or political ideology...."

From "Debunked 'Antifa' Wildfire Rumors Spread on Facebook Overload 911, Spur Calls to Violence" (Gizmodo).

100 comments:

Jupiter said...

Everybody knows it's those Gazebo guys. The ones in the Hawaiian shirts. They're the ones causing all this brouhaha!

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...

It's OK to blame the "right" when you don't have proof.

Not OK to blame the left, even while we see left-wing Antifa arsonists lighting shit on fire every night in parts of downtown Portland.

Your lying eyes.

Birkel said...

If they can "debunk" the theory that it was areonists, they must be able to tell us what the cause was, definitively, to a metaphysical certainty.

Or they're lying.

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...

Rumors that "fire spreads" are rated as "mostly false" from MSM(D)

Ice Nine said...

>>FBI Portland: Reports that extremists are setting wildfires in Oregon are untrue.
Facebook said that its third-party fact-checkers had rated as “false” the allegations of coordinated attacks<<

And who could possibly doubt such paragons of veracity as those two!

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...

Fact checkers for the democrat party rate this as "mostly false"

Jett Thomas, 36, has been arrested in Portland & charged w/1st-degree felony arson, felony unlawful use of a weapon, 2 counts of felony criminal mischief & more. Law enforcement says Thomas tried to set a NW Portland hotel gas pipe on fire.

No way, man. It's all lies, man. A myth.

MadTownGuy said...

The word 'debunked' has been devalued.

Krumhorn said...

Where there’s smoke, there’s fire.

- Krumhorn

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...

We are at a loss for words. Deputies & @Corbett_Fire
responded to a small brush fire in the 1700 block of NE Brower Rd in Corbett at 3:52pm. Neighbors heard pops and saw 6ft flames in the forest. Using a shovel and water, they were able to put it out. Deputies found fireworks...



We are all sure this is a happy coincidence. Leftwing Antifa arsonists are a figment of our imaginations. They would never play with fire, because they only want more medicare for all.

daskol said...

It's truth as fuck, and that's the standard today. Deal with hit.

daskol said...

er, truthy.

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...

What? No way, man.

And here we have Antifa bragging about starting fires in Oregon

Temujin said...

Two things I've learned in the past decade to trust with my life: Facebook and third party fact-checkers.

Anyway...I'm sure any arsonists appreciate the clean bill of health they've been given. I doubt those who study how a fire started use Facebook as it's guide. Gizmodo and WaPo, no doubt, do. (Just tossing WaPo into the same pit because, let's face it, they've earned it.)

Ken B said...

Cute. The bit about arsonists always existing, many reasons for fires, etc. Those might all be ... paltering.

We could wait for the facts, or we can make pronouncements. I will wait, but Gizmodo clearly has no interest in waiting for the facts.

Bob Boyd said...

There is no such thing as Antifa, but if there was, they wouldn't start forest fires, only buildings and cars and their own shoes and stuff like that.

Iman said...

Where there’s smoke there’s fire.

tim maguire said...

The art of lying, like the lying done by WaPo two posts below.

Bob Boyd said...

Official sources, news media, fact checkers burned their own credibility to the ground.
Their denial of these rumors now only pours gas on the fire.

Lem Vibe Bandit said...

93% of the forest is not on fire.

MD Greene said...

We're getting more stupid by the day. You can almost see the IQ points leaking out of people's ears as they walk down the street.

A new Netflix doc, "The Social Dilemma," features a bunch of ex-techies pondering, with regret, the effects of their algorithms.

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...

All it takes is one person to set a fire.

Or is that a myth too?

rcocean said...

They haven't "debunked" anything. Why is the MSM so intent on protecting Antifa? Too bad, Fox News or someone could analyze and report on that.

Anyway, no one knows who set the arson attacks. That Antifa did it, is a good educated guess. Saying that's "false" is itself "false". You can only say its NOT antifa, if you know who is setting the fires. And the MSM and the Left, doesn't know. IT COULD BE ANTIFA.

rcocean said...

Without evidence, the MSM says Antifa didn't do it.

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...

Antifa are angry for being blamed for... stuff they do on video for 100+ nights...
Antifa more angry and call for more violence.

got it.
but do not blame antifa rioters.

Kate said...

Fascinating that "palter" has no etymology on any site I chose, from urbandictionary to lexico, which says it dates to a 16th century usage. I've never heard of it and must now adopt it. What a beauty.

Dad29 said...

Just like the FEEBS have stated that they found no "extremist" groups responsible for the fires.

Two weasel-words in there: "found" and "extremist." No ANTIFA? OK, but what about RevCom?

Wince said...

"Sometimes called paltering, the artful use of small, truthful statements to convince people of a much grander lie is a common propaganda technique..."

The Democrats should know.

And notice the words "artful use" invoking a conspiracy behind those rampant suspicions. Do you really have to assume a plot is behind a resulting firestorm of social media gossip when the nearest metropolitan area is besieged by nightly riots and arson, with threats to take that violence to where you live?

As with so much on the left, they are projecting their own actual conspiracy mongering.

TreeJoe said...

There was an arrest for arson. I’ve seen no details on the arrested suspect.

JAORE said...

Not proven = debunked.
Not proven = lie.

Is this like the guy who yells, "Aloha Snackbar" and slices the throats of a few dozen people next to a Jewish community center and the "authorities" say we have no clue as to motive?

I don't know. But it's amazing the speed and certitude on display.

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...

The Portland FBI assures you that this guy would never set anything on fire.

narciso said...

you were saying,

https://legalinsurrection.com/2020/09/arson-investigations-launched-in-california-oregon-and-washington-wildfires/

Achilles said...

Facebook and Google and various censors can try to hide it.

They are failing.

Everyone knows what is going on. There have never been fires like this in these places. The videos of people setting fires on the side of the road get deleted but people still see them.

It is also easy as fuck to tell where these fires start.

Democrats/GOPe political class douchewads need to come to terms with not being in control of our lives.

Or we need to wipe them out.

bagoh20 said...

This paltering is the basis of most fact-checking I see done. We are definitely becoming a dumber, more easily-fooled society every day.

Narr said...

How dare people spread misinformation! Why, it's downright dangerous, and Unamerican to boot.

I wonder what the Venn diagram would look like for BLM/Antifa rioters and the smokejumpers and other first responders.

Narr
O O would be my guess

Ken B said...

Paltering is a word I have never heard before, and it seems a useful one.

JAORE said...

Proven no Antifa involvement.

Proven no graft when Biden's son gets the big bucks from the Ukraine and China.

Darrell said...

Interstate 5 is starting the fires. It's bloody obvious.

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...

the left LIE.

They will burn it all down and blame someone else.
They do it everyday on CNN, and MSDNC.

Ann Althouse said...

"Fascinating that "palter" has no etymology on any site I chose, from urbandictionary to lexico, which says it dates to a 16th century usage. I've never heard of it and must now adopt it. What a beauty."

I looked it up in the OED before posting. It's there, with no known origin. It goes back to the 1500s. Milton used it. Shakespeare used it.

The origin of "paltry" is also unknown. "Paltry" is a pretty common word.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Achilles Everyone knows what is going on. There have never been fires like this in these places. The videos of people setting fires on the side of the road get deleted but people still see them.

Exactly. That most of the fires are near major highways, like I-5 through Oregon and off of other easily accessible highways shows that the are almost all man-made. Arson. By people who are too lazy to get far away from freeway access. Fire Map Today See where the main roads are?? Hmmmmm.

Fires in remote areas occur but rarely and are usually sparked by dry lightning or by careless campers. Most of these fires recently are created by neither.

It is arson. By whom? well, we don't know. But we do have that gut feeling that those who are trying to burn down the cities are just expanding to other targets.

Until "they"...the people who "think" they are in charge can prove otherwise....it shall remain so. Arson by domestic terrorists.

wildswan said...

I can refrain from thinking that I know that Antifa actually started these fires but not from thinking that it's the kind of thing they do. And we only have the media to investigate and find out what actually happened. This is why they shouldn't have allowed themselves to become known liars.

madAsHell said...

This is Gell-Mann amnesia.

Did you miss the dumpster fires in Portland, Seattle, and Minneapolis??

AllenS said...

Once again, I shall proffer --

True or false --

Antifa and Black Lives Matter like to start fires.

Anonymous said...

I live in Oregon, some of these fires are set.

AllenS said...

Does anyone know if were thunderstorms/lightning strikes in the burn areas at the time of the fires? Thunderstorms? Can you just have lightning strikes without rain clouds around? Should be able to check if there were storms at that time, but my thinking that nobody has claimed that the fires were caused my lightning strikes leaves only one other way to start the fires. Sorry, all of you antifa and black lives matter commenters here, but your people did it.

n.n said...

It's OK to blame the "right" when you don't have proof.

Yes, the debunkers were long ago debunked when they indulged liberal license to judge and label their competing interests as National Socialists, Fascists, and other bariants of left-wing ideologues, and, of course, allegations of diversity, projections of phobias, and similar progressive conditions.

n.n said...

1530s, "speak indistinctly" (a sense now obsolete), a word of unknown origin. It has the form of a frequentative, but no verb palt is known. Connection with paltry is uncertain. Via the notion of "talk in a trifling manner, babble," hence "talk insincerely," comes the sense "play fast and loose" (c. 1600), also transitive, "trifle away, squander" (1620s). Related: Paltered; paltering; palterer.
-- palter (v.)

rehajm said...

Eighteen of 20 board members tasked with oversight of Facebook fact-checking have ties to George Soros or his organization: Report

Ambrose said...

I thought everyone learned how you can't prove a negative last week with the Atlantic Trump allegations.

Fernandinande said...

Facebook said that its third-party fact-checkers [snort snort] had rated as 'false' the allegations of coordinated attacks,

So the antifa arsonist assholes are uncoordinated.

cubanbob said...

How fortunate we are that our hostess subjects herself to the palter of the NYT and the WaPo for our benefit.

hombre said...

It’s best that Antifa confine its arson to downtown in Democrat cities.

It is interesting that so many of the usual suspects are certain despite suspicions of arson that Democrat Brownshirts are not responsible. For example, the police chief in progressive Ashland, Oregon, confirmed that arson investigations by several agencies were ongoing, but that he was “100% certain” that Antifa was not responsible.

Simply not possible, is it.

Now is the winter of our discontent made glorious summer by this son of New York said...

I love that word “paltering,” it’s such a perfect description of how the press operates in its unstinting service to the left.

iowan2 said...

Fact checkers, aren't. On the plus side, the media have admitted no one trusts them to report facts. The just farm it out to other media to "fact check". I thought news gathering WAS fact checking.

The media is nothing but partisan propaganda distributors.

95% of Americans still have no idea the Obama administration actively spied on the Trump campaign, and transition team. That's a fact nobody wants to check.

Now is the winter of our discontent made glorious summer by this son of New York said...

I have a feeling that the word is going to climb the usage charts now, it’s way better than “beclown” ever was.

Now is the winter of our discontent made glorious summer by this son of New York said...

I have a feeling that the word is going to climb the usage charts now, it’s way better than “beclown” ever was.

Jim at said...

The dude who deliberately set fires along Highway 167 and Highway 512 in Washington state admitted he was Antifa. It's on his fucking Facebook page.

mikee said...

When will the words "lying shitweasel" be appropriate for use?

daskol said...

Provide a soupçon of verisimilitude and the whole thing goes down in a truthy sluice.

tcrosse said...

The accusations of arson were pre-paltered weeks ago.

5M - Eckstine said...

So far on the left coast I have seen 6 verifies arsonists pictured in the newspaper web sites. That's without even trying hard. The background of these people seem to be 1 is insane and 5 are active criminals.

Where else do I see active criminals burning on the left coast. Portland!.

Is association causation here? Are these just sympathy copy cat crimes from felons watching too much Portland Twitter?

A couple of these were caused by fireworks tossed into dry foliage. Not far from Portland. Where else do I see fireworks being used to start fires?

I would state again that the only way for Facebook to bebunk the rumor accurately would be to be embedded in the BLM/Antifa riots and also providing them with private organizational groups that Facebook is spying on. The feds should put their eye on Facebook as a distiller of riots.

h said...

THe word "palter" comes from columnist/author Jonathan P. Altar who uses the technique frequently in his writing.

5M - Eckstine said...

There might be some Clintonesque hanky panky going on with the progressive definition of "arsonist". Same as they did with the term "racism".

We should not assume we are talking about the same thing when a government official or a Facebook CEO represent the word arsonist. In their world it's oppressive and racist to identify a protestor as an arsonist. Only someone from the capitalistic patriarchy can function as an arsonist.

Mid-Life Lawyer said...

Mostly peaceful wildfires?

bbear said...

In recent years terror groups in Gaza have employed the charming practice of launching incendiary (and sometimes explosive) balloons into southern Israel. As the Jerusalem Post reports, "Some have sparked large wildfires, mainly damaging crops."

How much of a stretch is it to wonder about possible Antifa copycats?

https://www.jpost.com/arab-israeli-conflict/balloon-units-threaten-response-to-idf-strikes-as-new-fires-reported-638325

Dude1394 said...

Listen FBI and democrat media. I get a LOT more truth from Facebook/blogs than I do from you. Democrat media has been telling me for months that LM/Antifa were not violently rioting, but I’m supposed to believe you now? Bullshit.

And FBI you are the most corrupt government entity in the country. You have spent the last 5 years trying to oust a president. You have NO CREDIBILITY, NONE.

Yancey Ward said...

In a surprising turn in the story, it was learned that "Hot Foot Antifa Guy" didn't actually get his fire put out that night. If you watch the video carefully, he hops off down an alley, and is believed to be Footloosing his way around surrounding Portland metropolitan area.

MadTownGuy said...

"Indeed, while revenge, extremism, and profit are all recognized motivations for arson, other fire-setters seek 'thrills, attention and recognition..."

Isn't that what Vicky Osterweil said? "Looting... provides people with an imaginative sense of freedom and pleasure and helps them imagine a world that could be."

MD Greene said...

The one known arrest is of a 41-year-old transient in Jackson County, in southwest Oregon between Medford and Ashland. A homeowner saw the man lighting the fire in the homeowner's back yard. Police found said transient very near a large burn and arrested him. The arson fire seems to have met up with another fire in the small towns of Phoenix and Talent for a nice big, scorching blaze.

I doubt the transient traveled from Portland to do what he has been charged with doing. People in that part of the state will shoot you for that sort of thing, NTTAWT.

Chuck said...

Lol.

Is this the Althouse portal to 4Chan?

Brand said...

I have three (3) unnamed, non-existent sources in a position to know that say Antifa is behind the fires. Does this prove it is true, or at least worthy of repeated unquestioning media coverage?

Narayanan said...

when compiled together palterings become : A psalter

A psalter is a volume containing the devotional material with liturgical calendar and litany of the Saints. Until the later 21st century emergence of the book of uncancellables, psalters were the books most widely owned by Elite persons and were commonly used for teaching the children learning to read.

Anonymous said...

AllenS said...
Does anyone know if were thunderstorms/lightning strikes in the burn areas at the time of the fires? Thunderstorms? Can you just have lightning strikes without rain clouds around? Should be able to check if there were storms at that time, but my thinking that nobody has claimed that the fires were caused my lightning strikes leaves only one other way to start the fires. Sorry, all of you antifa and black lives matter commenters here, but your people did it.


No, we haven't had thunderstorms.

Arson investigators can analyze fire demographics. Lightning strike fires are random, and fairly evenly spread with increased clustering at higher elevations. the tell tale is fires where nobody goes to.

camp fires have a pattern

out of control burns are identifiable. muffler fires also

cigarettes out the window must be close to a road. though not many of those anymore.

arson fires start near secondary roads off rural highways. near a gravel road because your average arsonist doesn't hike. but not on the main road where the arsonist would have witnesses.

Gk1 said...

"Debunked" You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means.
~Inigo Montoya

I guess we will have to see after the *ahem* smoke has cleared but how can we be so sure of anything with all the jailbirds let loose and non prosecution of thugs and degens? This would be precisely the thing to do to continue the disruption during the election.

It just may be that it has the opposite effect of undermining Trump and getting him handily re-elected. That would be consistent with the uniparty's ACME/Wile E. Coyote approach of getting Trump at all costs.

Joe Smith said...

After 9-11-01 I just assumed that the west would burn every year as a coordinated effort from Al Qaeda...the most bang for your buck terrorism I can think of.

Not surprising that the Antifa and BLM cocksuckers have figured this out.

They're dumb, but they're not Joe Biden or AOC dumb.

zefal said...

Paltering is the new cromulent.

tcrosse said...

The spirit of paltering appears as the paltergeist.

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...

why are the powers that be so interested in covering and excusing for antifa arson?

D.D. Driver said...

Jeffrey Acord, 36, was arrested Wednesday for allegedly starting a fire on State Route 167 at Meridian."

This same man was arrested in 2014 in Ferguson and "charged with possession of a concealed weapon without a permit, carrying a dangerous knife and illegal possession of fireworks."

"Debunked" seems a bit premature.

Drago said...

LLR-lefty Chuck: "Lol. Is this the Althouse portal to 4Chan?"

Pecan-Pie Gate/Russia Collusion Truther conspiracy theorist would like to chat about conspiracies.

Discuss.

h said...

replying to Joe Smith at 3:10. You are making an insightful point: There are lots of vulnerabilities that terrorists could exploit. Being an easterner, I hadn't considered western fires. Isn't the western water system an obvious target as well. Living in the DC area, it occurred to me that I could bring the nation's capitol to a standstill by recruiting a few friends, and driving around the beltway at the posted speed limit.

D.D. Driver said...

Also: Isn't the "six dead teachers" story a textbook example of "paltering"?

Drago said...

D.D. Driver: "Jeffrey Acord, 36, was arrested Wednesday for allegedly starting a fire on State Route 167 at Meridian."

This same man was arrested in 2014 in Ferguson and "charged with possession of a concealed weapon without a permit, carrying a dangerous knife and illegal possession of fireworks."

"Debunked" seems a bit premature."

Actually, as the likelihood that this 2014-Ferguson firesetter/2020-Oregon firesetter is antifa approaches 100%, it will be even more important for marxists and their pals, like LLR-lefty Chuck, to preemptively "debunk" any inconvenient truths.

Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...

proof that Climate Change causes arson.

also-- "Gwyneth" also has no origins. Hmmm.

Josephbleau said...

“For example, the police chief in progressive Ashland, Oregon, confirmed that arson investigations by several agencies were ongoing, but that he was “100% certain” that Antifa was not responsible.“

Absolving a large diverse group of suspects before the investigation is an unserious way to solve crimes.

Joe Smith said...

@h

There are even easier ones.

Use your imagination...

Michael K said...

AllenS said...
Does anyone know if were thunderstorms/lightning strikes in the burn areas at the time of the fires? Thunderstorms? Can you just have lightning strikes without rain clouds around?


Dry lightning strikes set the big fire in the Catalina mountains in June in AZ. I actually saw them on the mountain behind our house in Tucson. Fortunately for us, it burned the other way. 180,000 acres, I think by July. I think I also read about some lightning strikes in northern CA.

Alu Toloa said...

One of the biggest fires, Beachie Creek, was indeed started by lighting back in August. It smoldered in its old growth wilderness habitat for weeks, and the State of Oregon [whose Fire Marshall was forced to resign today, in another indicia of the utter incompetence of Kate Brown's administration] did nothing to suppress it. It "took off" when the easterly gales fanned it into the current inferno. The Alemeda Drive fire in Jackson county that caused such devastation, was arson and an arrest has been made. No definitive word if arsonist had "political" motives. It is unknown who or what caused the other major fires in Oregon, but it wasn't lightning.
Incidentally, I-5 can cause fires...we had one near our home a couple of years ago south of Cottage Grove, when a car with defective parts sparked numerous fires on the east side of the northbound lanes. My favorite oxymoron is law enforcement saying: "We don't know what caused these fires, but it wasn't Antifa.

Unknown said...

Wow, that was fast

I for one refuse to believe anarchists would set forest fires


Especially when "we all are told" their organization doesn't exist

The only fires they set are police union halls and federal courthouses

Especially forest fires which allow Dem governors to declare Climate Crises and thus wield Supreme Executive Power forever

https://youtu.be/Q5sFyMkmYDM?t=172 Gavin Newsome declares Climate Change responsible for wild fires

did They ever get around to debunking Project 1619?

Oh, 1619 not history, its journalism!

n.n said...

This same man was arrested in 2014 in Ferguson and "charged with possession of a concealed weapon without a permit, carrying a dangerous knife and illegal possession of fireworks."

"Debunked" seems a bit premature.


Debunking the debunkers. JournoLism is a progressive condition.

Narayanan said...

Author: Ashley Stewart and KING 5 News (KING)
Published: 6:21 PM PST November 26, 2014
Updated: 6:21 PM PST November 26, 2014

SEATTLE -- Seattle police arrested a 31-year-old man during Monday's Ferguson protest after officers discovered a cache of weapons, ammunition and explosives in his backpack and car.
Jeffrey Alan Acord was booked into King County Jail and on Wednesday, charged with possession of a concealed weapon without a permit, carrying a dangerous knife and illegal possession of fireworks.

for the record (to foil LLR Chuck) after fact check = TRUER than FICTION

Gabriel said...

Wildfires have happened every year of the 33 years I have lived in Washington State. This year is worse than usual, but so it was in 2017.

The maps I'm looking at, yes it appears like they follow I-5, but if you know the geography of the area these fires are mostly happening in the places where there are trees; the middle third of Washington and Oregon east of the Cascades is desert, so you get fires through the Cascades (the "I-5" ones) and fires also in the northeastern and southeastern parts of Washington where the desert gives way to trees again.

I don't doubt there are some arsonists, even some antifa, but a lot of these fires are in places where antifa never goes, in places where you get fires nearly every year.

Yancey Ward said...

Chuck wrote:

"Is this the Althouse portal to 4Chan?"

Too funny, Chuck. Did the Pastry Squad ever solve your Pecan Pie case?

ken in tx said...

That police chief is probably so sure that Antifa is not settings the fires because he believes Antifa is a right wing myth. In his mind, it's the same as being 100% sure the Easter Bunny didn't start them.

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...

Isn't it funny how anything that points to leftwing guilt is "debunked" by the powerful construct?

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...

The White Left

Young, angry, entitled, stupid, white, privileged, and hot to Trotsky

Lem Vibe Bandit said...

If Antifa/BLM aren't setting the fires, why aren't they volunteering to help put them out?

Nichevo said...

and the State of Oregon [whose Fire Marshall was forced to resign today, in another indicia of the utter incompetence of Kate Brown's administration]


Why did he resign/get resigned?

Fernandinande said...

Facebook said that its third-party fact-checkers

AKA "censors".

GRW3 said...

You understand that this kind of thing only works if there an underlying belief it could be true. Nobody, in their right mind, would believe "TEA Party suspected of starting forest fires..." because they are pretty well known for good cheer and leaving the sites of their protests cleaner than when they arrived (unlike the usual left wing, earth day pigstys). On the other hand, the idea of Antifa or BLM starting them is believable.