September 12, 2020

Anxious and unsettled?

90 comments:

Roughcoat said...

How very droll. To the point of jejune, I should think.

Unknown said...

The solution is to try to look like Joe Biden?

n.n said...

Social in contrast to physical distancing, and a false sense of safety and security.

rehajm said...

When people ask Steve for his autograph he doesn't sign but instead hands them a card that says This certifies that you have had a personal encounter with me and that you found me warm, polite, intelligent and funny. -Steve Martin

He often riffs on his own celebrity...

mikee said...

Steve Martin is at least self aware of his extreme narcissism and self aggrandizement.
Or at least he pretends to be.
Which is the joke. I guess. I hope.

I owe him for the line, "I was born a poor black child..." which enlivened many questions from first dates about my early life.

Original Mike said...

He's still got it.

Cloudesley Shovell said...

How could Steve Martin, of all people, forget the arrow?

Ralph L said...

"I'm ready for my pap walk, Mr. DeMille."

madAsHell said...

I walk the dog in a 350 acre park.

Sure, most of the dog walking is focused on the shoreline.....

Butt Fuck You, don't put your mask on as I approach from 20 yards because I'm not wearing a mask outdoors. This has become virtue signaling for infants.

...and fuck Jay Inslee!! He's still laundering your unemployment insurance through Nigeria to pay for his failed presidential campaign.

Original Mike said...

"See the latest COVID-19 information on Twitter"

Right after I check in on the latest on the Flat Earth Society website.

Static Ping said...

He should just carry a banjo. Problem solved!

tim in vermont said...

A commenter here on a now dead thread said that asymptomatic people did not spread the disease so people who felt fine didn’t need to wear masks, probably based on a statement made by a spokesman for WHO who said asymptomatic transmission was “rare” but then she walked it back the very next day saying her statement was a misunderstanding of the research.

CDC says this:

Redfield [CDC] — who cautioned that COVID-19 is about three times as infectious as the flu — also said the CDC learned that those who do present symptoms are usually contagious up to 48 hours before symptoms appear, meaning they could be transmitting for days before realizing they have it.

“This helps explain how rapidly this virus continues to spread across the country,” he told NPR. “Because we have asymptomatic transmitters and we have individuals who are transmitting 48 hours before they become symptomatic.”
- NPR

If it were only people who are sick spreading the virus, it would have been contained by now, like SARS. Maybe instead of saying asymptomatic, I will start saying ‘pre-symptomatic’ though, because they seem to account for most of the spread from people who don’t have symptoms. Its a fine distinction, but there is a difference.

There was also the idea that asymptomatic people had lower viral loads, and it was then theorized that they were less likely to infect others. It is not true that they have a lower viral load.

Only 19.1% of those asymptomatic patients went on to develop symptoms during isolation compared with 80.9% who remained asymptomatic and did not develop symptoms during an average of 24 days they were followed in the study.

Nasal and throat swabs were collected from each patient. The researchers then analyzed those samples and examined viral genetic material called RNA, taking a close look at the patients' viral loads, which refer to the amount of virus a person has inside them.

The study found that the viral load in asymptomatic patients -- those who were not showing symptoms -- appeared to be similar to that in patients showing symptoms.


https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/07/health/covid-asymptomatic-transmission-study-wellness/index.html

The above study doesn’t *prove* that asymptomatic people spread it, but other studies have shown that it does.

If a symptomatic person and an asymptomatic person stand close together and talk without masks, “their chances of spreading it are about the same,” said Dr. Claudia Hoyen, co-director of infection control at University Hospitals.

https://www.cleveland.com/coronavirus/2020/09/asymptomatic-people-with-covid-19-may-spread-virus-as-much-as-patients-who-cough.html

This stuff is not hard to find, it’s just that a lot of people believe their jerking knee over the evidence and so have no interest in looking to see if their opinion may not take all of the facts into account.

I find it very strange to be on the other side of an argument from n.n., but here we are.

Wince said...

Anxious and unsettled by a need to be recognized... as a celebrity?

Mid-Life Lawyer said...

I like when he plays that part. Very funny.

eddie willers said...

I think an arrow through the head would have sufficed.

bagoh20 said...

The whole mask bullshit is kind of a boon to celebrities seeking to get out unnoticed.

whitney said...

It's very important that he not lose face. He doesn't want to think he's one of the faceless masses

tim in vermont said...

I liked the arrow through the head prop better, and if he used that, people would still recognize him.

Indigo Red said...

I tried that. People told me I didn't look anything like Steve Martin.

wild chicken said...

The reply that added the arrow to his head was brilliant.

ga6 said...

Carry your banjo at all times..

Unknown said...

Regardless of how the world compels us to wear masks, it’s a less civilized world out there.
-willie

bagoh20 said...

An analogy to mask wearing:

Wearing seat belts made of lace,
only wearing them when driving north,
taking your eyes off the road over and over as you put them on and off to make turns, and
driving much faster than normal when you have them on.

In Nevada, we have to wear masks through the door to the restaurant where everyone inside has them off.

There is tons of science showing them ineffective or even counter effective. One study of college students showed people wearing masks touch their face 23 times as often as those without, leading to far more transmission. The studies that show them effective are in well-controlled and highly infectious environments with good practices, places like hospitals where the whole scenario is nothing like the real world.

I have been making an effort talk to servers and store clerks about it for the last week or so. They are universally disgusted with the policy, and none have told me they prefer masks. They are told that they will be fired immediately if they are caught by the health inspectors serving anyone without a mask. Some places even have signs up saying that. One place I was at yesterday was inspected 4 times that week alone. The workers desperately want and need to work, but are terrified of their own government when they do. It's our tyrant governor essentially holding a gun to the heads of working people and telling the rest of us to mask up or the clerk gets shot. It has created a strong dislike in me and many other people here for our governor. I hear him constantly called an idiot, and never hear anyone defend him, even those who voted for him. I hope he is justly rewarded for his efforts.

gspencer said...

He'd do better putting the arrow through his head, like the old days,

https://vonsimeon.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/stevemartin_tucec9.gif

Thistlerose said...

He gets anxious and unsettled if people don't recognize him when he goes outside so he wears a sign so people can't mistake him for just a random person. How pathetic.

rosebud said...

Shouldn't that arrow go through his head?

James K said...

“Do you know who I am?”

john said...

Horizontal arrow would have been funnier.

Slipping.

Birkel said...

My solution: what mask?

jrohio said...

Comedy is not pretty

Tom T. said...

It's a shout-out to his old arrow-through-the-head gag.

Lawrence Person said...

He should have just used the arrow...

walter said...

5h
I always wear a mask when I go outside. But something about it was leaving me anxious and unsettled.
--
You can't fix stupid.

zefal said...

Every Steve Martin routine I see on old tv shows is embarrassingly unfunny. The only movie of his that actually holds up is The Jerk and he has either disowned or is embarrassed by it.

Lem said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Narr said...

Love it.

Narr
Why not body temp while he's at it?

Narr said...

Felling better, Roughcoat?

I don't read all posts and comments, so maybe I've missed some.

I'm surprised Steve Martin didn't just use the old arrow through the head.

Narr
Now that would have been funny!

pious agnostic said...

Love this guy.

Narayanan said...

Roughcoat said...
How very droll. To the point of jejune, I should think.
-----------==========
is Steve Martin capable of How very TROLL?

Original Mike said...

"In Nevada, we have to wear masks through the door to the restaurant where everyone inside has them off."

Wisconsin too. Went to a bar in northern Wisconsin for a burger. Several signs at the front door, 'can not enter without a mask'. Fine. Then you go inside and everybody has them off, as they must to eat and drink. I don't want to participate in the "mask debate", but that's just stupid.

Big Mike said...

Here's what you really need, Steve.

wildswan said...

Body temp is no good because you can be a spreader 48 hours before that. But there's saliva test coming that can give result in 5 minutes. So - two people approach. They spit into the spittoon. They wait six feet apart. (I only have two feet but that's a different issue. Similarly in Europe they have to be a meter apart but what kind of meter. Pyramus and Thisbe meet on each side of a water meter? And why can't European spell - metre indeed. Metra, what word. But on...) For five minutes. Then, at last. "My darling, I've missed you" etc. Or, "You are infected, sayonara, spreader." But suppose it's both. Do they then pod up? "Honey, I couldn't help it, we both were infected and had to pod up at the Hilton." "Oh, yes, I know your pod-up stories. Last month, remember, you had to pod up at the Marriott." "My darling, they mean nothing to me, it's like being caught in a storm, Humphrey Bogart, Key Largo." "There was no storm in Key Largo and you're no Humphrey Bogart." "Well, let's spit and see, oh look!! Stay away, spreader!" Blam. "Officer, she came within six feet without a meter. It was self-defence."

Anonymous said...

>>>He gets anxious and unsettled if people don't recognize him when he goes outside so he wears a sign so people can't mistake him for just a random person. How pathetic.<<<

He's a comedian. It's a joke.

stevew said...

Hahaha, that's pretty good. "Anxious and Unsettled", isn't that the essence of his ouevre?

I happened to catch a view of myself in a mirror on my way out for a walk recently. I had on a ball cap, my dark sunglasses, and my mask. Looked pretty badass if I do say so, but no one that knows me would would recognize me. I didn't feel anxious and unsettled but did think that the get up was pretty depersonalizing and, maybe, dehumanizing.

Rabel said...

Scott Adams says that one third of the population doesn't have a sense of humor. I didn't agree when he first said it, but I'm coming around.

The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...

“Butt Fuck You, don't put your mask on as I approach from 20 yards because I'm not wearing a mask outdoors. This has become virtue signaling for infants.”

Come south, young man. As I’ve travelled the Pugetopolis and some of the tonier parts of the Olympic Peninsula (and Friday Harbor worst of all) I’ve frequently seen this kind of douchery on display. And it’s occurred to me that these people were shitty, panicky human beings long before the KungFlu rolled in. My own part of the Evergreen State, often maligned as hicksville, has really shown it’s latent charm these last six months.

gadfly said...

There are 1,020 people in the U.S. named Steve Martin.

John henry said...

I figure that if I have to wear a mask I'll really wear a mask. For the past couple months I've been wearing a gaiter that's about the consistency of black panty hose. I can breathe freely.

It is almost transparent and I wear it up over my head when I go in stores. I can see pretty well but if I need to read the fine print I pull it down for a moment.

From the outside, it is pretty opaque.

The stores here all have people at the entrance taking temperatures and checking for masks. I've been waiting for someone to say something.

So far the closest is at Costco. The woman checking temps and member cards asked me to turn mine over so she could see my picture. Then she waved me through. I asked how she verified my photo with the muffler over my head.

"your arm matches the color of the photo.

John Henry

Roughcoat said...

Narr:

Yes, I am feeling much much better. Still tired/easily fatigued but improving steadily. Have started taking short slow walks. That's about the extent of my workouts for now. I've been cautioned against pushing it and I'm following that advice. Letting nature take its course. I can almost feel my body wanting to heal; but also telling me: "Steady, lad. Steady now." (In the voice of CSM Bourne in "Zulu.")

Bottom line: confidence is high.

Thanks for asking.

John henry said...

I also have a black balaclava. Same stretchy spabdex, very breathable. I put sunglasses on and it's just as concealing as the gaiter.

I wear it like a stocking cap, pull it down as needed.

I like that better than the gaiter which I wear around my neck when not in use.

I highly recommend either the gaiter or balaclava (available via portal). They provide every bit as much protection to wearer and others as any other muffler. That is, none whatsoever other than legal.

If you have to cover half your face, you might as well cover the whole thing and get the benefit of anonymity.

That way the muffler is not a total waste.

John Henry

Narr said...

Some people don't get deadpan. Their loss.

Narr
That Steve Martin is a national treasure

alanc709 said...

If you can smell the smoke through your mask, just think what that means about a virus that is smaller, thus harder to block.

John henry said...

I also have a black balaclava. Same stretchy spabdex, very breathable. I put sunglasses on and it's just as concealing as the gaiter.

I wear it like a stocking cap, pull it down as needed.

I like that better than the gaiter which I wear around my neck when not in use.

I highly recommend either the gaiter or balaclava (available via portal). They provide every bit as much protection to wearer and others as any other muffler. That is, none whatsoever other than legal.

If you have to cover half your face, you might as well cover the whole thing and get the benefit of anonymity.

That way the muffler is not a total waste.

John Henry

clint said...

@zefal said.. "Every Steve Martin routine I see on old tv shows is embarrassingly unfunny. The only movie of his that actually holds up is The Jerk and he has either disowned or is embarrassed by it."

Dirty Rotten Scoundrels.

He still plays the overly-hammed-up cringy humor, but it's in-story that he acts that way and it forms the core of a running joke at his expense.

J. Farmer said...

The first thing I ever saw Steve Martin in was the 1987 film Roxanne. And then again a few months later in Planes, Trains, & Automobiles. Both are still among my favorites of his work. I can pretty much quote every line of his in either movie.

Fernandinande said...

We were just talking about Steve Martin singing "Rambling Man" in Chinese.

Bilwick said...

For some reason this reminds me of graffiti I saw in a men's room stall:

"I believe in safe sex. I always wear a condom when I'm giving a guy a blowjob."

Bob said...

tim in vermont said, "There was also the idea that asymptomatic people had lower viral loads, and it was then theorized that they were less likely to infect others. It is not true that they have a lower viral load."


So, how do you reconcile that with this NYT article. Viral load appears related to the number of cycles a lab runs the PCR test. The more cycles run to reach a "positive" result, the lower the viral load. The fewer cycles run, the higher the load.

If this is all correct, it suggests asymptomatic people may differ in their viral loads and infectiousness.

COVID appears to be mostly gray areas. Very little black and white.

MD Greene said...

He could have worn a hat to disguise himself. It is possible he's letting us see his receding hairline? Always liked him, always will.

n.n said...

I can almost feel my body wanting to heal; but also telling me: "Steady, lad. Steady now."

What doesn't break you, may make you stronger. Good luck.

wholelottasplainin' said...

J. Farmer said...
The first thing I ever saw Steve Martin in was the 1987 film Roxanne. And then again a few months later in Planes, Trains, & Automobiles. Both are still among my favorites of his work. I can pretty much quote every line of his in either movie.
************
First for me was his brief appearance in the late-70's in the first Muppet movie, which I saw in Japan. He played a rude and officious waiter. I wondered "who is THAT guy?"

As for him being unfunny, per zefal, I always liked "King Tut" and the scene with Bill Murray in "Little Shops of Horrors", where Martin plays a sadistic dentist and Murray a masochistic patient:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYbavuReVF4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XB7R0ZxNgC4

As usual with humor, YMMV.

Paco Wové said...

"80.9% who remained asymptomatic and did not develop symptoms"

So – 4 out of 5 infected people never manifest any symptoms at all?

n.n said...

If you have to cover half your face, you might as well cover the whole thing and get the benefit of anonymity.

That way the muffler is not a total waste.


The benefit is intuitive and em-pathetic appeal.

Yes, the virus evolved and reached peak viability before and in spite of mandates including social distancing and masks. The implication is that they mischaracterized the physics of the virus and transmission modes. There is also the problem of misusing masks, leaving eyes uncovered, and concentrating viral loads in the moist collectors.

Yancey Ward said...

"The first thing I ever saw Steve Martin in was the 1987 film Roxanne. And then again a few months later in Planes, Trains, & Automobiles. Both are still among my favorites of his work. I can pretty much quote every line of his in either movie."

For me, the first thing I remember seeing Steve Martin in was "Saturday Night Live" (he also appeared in the early 70s in "Sonny and Cher's show, but I was too young to really have noticed him). If I remember correctly, he did his first host in the second season of SNL, but will have to double check that, and he seemed to host it 2-3 times a year until the original cast was replaced.

I later saw him in his TV special "A Wild and Crazy Guy"- around 1977-78, and his first real movie starring role was "The Jerk", which my friends and I saw 3 times one weekend. That one, I can recite the dialogue (or could 40 years ago).

Of his movies, my favorites are still "The Jerk", "The Man With Two Brains", and "All of Me". They weren't the best movies he was ever in, but they are Steve Martin movies in a way none of the other movies he made from the mid to late 80s were.

Jon Ericson said...

Nevada masks

Original Mike said...

Blogger Roughcoat said…"Yes, I am feeling much much better. Still tired/easily fatigued but improving steadily."

Glad to hear of your improvement. Fatigue is my stubborn symptom too. Still have more tired days than feel good days 6 weeks out.

OldManRick said...

The CDC has announced that any mask less that an N95 does not prevent you breathing in smoke particles from the current wildfires.

From https://www.cdc.gov/disasters/covid-19/wildfire_smoke_covid-19.html

Cloth masks that are used to slow the spread of COVID-19 by blocking respiratory droplets offer little protection against wildfire smoke. They do not catch small, harmful particles in smoke that can harm your health.

The problem is this means the cloth mask is also ineffective against COVID 19.

From https://www.redstate.com/scotthounsell/2020/09/10/the-cdc-accidentally-admits-cloth-masks-are-not-effective/

While N95 masks will protect up to 95% of particles, down to .1 microns in size. A quick Google search will tell us that smoke particles and debris are usually .4 to .7 microns in size. According to the CDC, cloth masks are not effective in stopping materials that size.

Another quick Google search will tell us that the Wuhan Virus is .12 microns in size, about a quarter in size of the smoke and fire debris particulate. Even if we factor for the “respiratory droplets” that are allegedly to blame for the spread of coronavirus, those droplets are as small as .5 microns, or as small or smaller than smoke and fire debris particulate.


Another not discussed issue is the evaporation rate of respiratory droplets. There are several papers on evaporation and suspension in air rates based on the size of the droplets that can be found via google. The big ones fall to the ground (especially outdoors) and the small to medium ones become smaller that smoke particles. Bottom line is that most lingering droplets are well under the size of the smoke debris.

Another nail in the coffin of masks prevent COVID-19

OldManRick said...

The CDC has announced that any mask less that an N95 does not prevent you breathing in smoke particles from the current wildfires.

From https://www.cdc.gov/disasters/covid-19/wildfire_smoke_covid-19.html

Cloth masks that are used to slow the spread of COVID-19 by blocking respiratory droplets offer little protection against wildfire smoke. They do not catch small, harmful particles in smoke that can harm your health.

The problem is this means the cloth mask is also ineffective against COVID 19.

From https://www.redstate.com/scotthounsell/2020/09/10/the-cdc-accidentally-admits-cloth-masks-are-not-effective/

While N95 masks will protect up to 95% of particles, down to .1 microns in size. A quick Google search will tell us that smoke particles and debris are usually .4 to .7 microns in size. According to the CDC, cloth masks are not effective in stopping materials that size.

Another quick Google search will tell us that the Wuhan Virus is .12 microns in size, about a quarter in size of the smoke and fire debris particulate. Even if we factor for the “respiratory droplets” that are allegedly to blame for the spread of coronavirus, those droplets are as small as .5 microns, or as small or smaller than smoke and fire debris particulate.


Another not discussed issue is the evaporation rate of respiratory droplets. There are several papers on evaporation and suspension in air rates based on the size of the droplets that can be found via google. The big ones fall to the ground (especially outdoors) and the small to medium ones become smaller that smoke particles. Bottom line is that most lingering droplets are well under the size of the smoke debris.

Another nail in the coffin of masks prevent COVID-19

MadTownGuy said...

First time I saw Steve Martin was on the Steve Allen show. He started his routine by opening a package of sliced bread and dumping it on the stage. His line was "I bet you've never seen that before!" My impression was that he was a dud and would never go anywhere on the biz. I guess he showed me@

buwaya said...

Hurrah!
I still have as much hair as Steve Martin.
@notyetbald

tim in vermont said...

"Another nail in the coffin of masks prevent COVID-19”

Why don’t you do a quick google scholar search?

We also demonstrated the efficacy of surgical masks to reduce coronavirus detection and viral copies in large respiratory droplets and in aerosols (Table 1b).

Read the whole thing

Respiratory virus shedding in exhaled breath and efficacy of face masks - Nature

Not going to change your mind, I am sure, even though to someone not emotionally traumatized by the notion of wearing a surgical mask to protect themself and others would find it quite convincing, since it actually tests the efficacy with coronaviruses. Interestingly, the masks are worthless with flu virus, so it might have to do with the static charge of the virus.

tim in vermont said...

"Yes, the virus evolved and reached peak viability before and in spite of mandates including social distancing and masks. “

Do you even read the literature that has been done on this stuff, n.n., before you opine? You are a bright guy, you should know that proper science doesn’t fall out from the implications of an ideology. It just seems like in this case you are being blind to many of the complicating aspects that sort of rule out simplistic answers you are offering.

tim in vermont said...

"So, how do you reconcile that with this NYT article.”

I gave a link to a study done in South Korea to support my point.

COVID appears to be mostly gray areas. Very little black and white.

But still people appear dead set on ignoring the advice of the people with the most training, education, and resources to do the investigations in a matter of life and death.

tim in vermont said...

"Butt Fuck You, don't put your mask on as I approach from 20 yards because I'm not wearing a mask outdoors. This has become virtue signaling for infants.”

Weird how you get all emotional about it. You can piss off if you are offended. I have been out in public and my experience has been that old men will walk right up to within a couple feet of you without a mask, so learning from that, I am going to put on a mask when a person approaches me for some reason, with our without a mask. I went to an outdoor bar to listen to a kid I know play music and had a beer, but pretty soon you had people walking right up next to you, even though there was plenty of room to spread out, just to say things like “Isn’t she great!” I don’t get it.

You have no ideas what health conditions that person is facing either. You guys all smugly say that it just kills people with co-morbidities, but you have no fucking idea who has them and who doesn’t.

tim in vermont said...

"There is tons of science showing them ineffective or even counter effective.”

I am sure you have tons of links then. Observational studies show that states where masks have been mandated have reduced rates of transmission, as reported by The Lancet, regardless of all of the second order effects you cite, which are probably true enough, to some extent. What you are doing is paltering. Most of the stuff you guys here are doing with your objections amount to paltering.

tim in vermont said...

"n Nevada, we have to wear masks through the door to the restaurant where everyone inside has them off.”

I agree, that seems like idiocy, either it’s safe enough in the restaurant, or it isn’t, but their reasoning probably has to do with the idea that the tables are properly distanced, and limited to people who are willing to take their chances with each other, and that there is no way to maintain distancing entering and leaving, etc.

tim in vermont said...

A lot of these arguments that I am hearing remind me of the kinds of stuff my elderly uncles used to say that we always sort of attributed to “hardening of the arteries."

tim in vermont said...

The fact that cheap surgical masks are effective against this virus is one of the few lucky breaks that we have enjoyed in this mess. But politics says that it has to be ignored, I guess.

Jeff said...

Best Steve Martin movie I've seen is Bowfinger.

RigelDog said...

I owe him for the line, "I was born a poor black child..." which enlivened many questions from first dates about my early life.}}}}

We have also laughed and used this line when looking through family photos. My husband was adopted as an infant and there are pictures of him as a toddler where he looks like he could be AA, with his light-brown skin, dark eyes, and wild hair. Who knows? Probably not, though, since he doesn't have an accent.

Bob said...

tim in vermont said, "I gave a link to a study done in South Korea to support my point."

I recall reading that study - not just an article about it - a few weeks back. CNN was gracious enough to provide two quotes from the study I think important.

'"Although the high viral load we observed in asymptomatic patients raises a distinct possibility of a risk for transmission, our study was not designed to determine this," the researchers wrote.

"It is important to note that detection of viral RNA does not equate infectious virus being present and transmissible," the researchers wrote. "For a better understanding of the viral shedding and potential transmissibility of asymptomatic infection, large rigorous epidemiologic and experimental studies are needed."'


So "the people with the most training, education, and resources to do the investigations in a matter of life and death" forthrightly (to their credit) say their study doesn't resolve the most important question: How infectious are asymptomatic people (really, how infectious is anyone)?

I cited the NYT article because it provided a new (for me) look into what "testing positive" means. And it doesn't mean what I thought it meant. Testing positive or negative isn't really a binary condition.

My broader point is, "the people with the most training, education, and resources" can be on opposite sides of the same questions. Which means we lay people and our official "leaders" have to sort things out with uncertain scientific guidance. When the "experts" don't know, we don't either.

Bob said...

tim in vermont said, "I gave a link to a study done in South Korea to support my point."

I recall reading that study - not just an article about it - a few weeks back. CNN was gracious enough to provide two quotes from the study I think important.

'"Although the high viral load we observed in asymptomatic patients raises a distinct possibility of a risk for transmission, our study was not designed to determine this," the researchers wrote.

"It is important to note that detection of viral RNA does not equate infectious virus being present and transmissible," the researchers wrote. "For a better understanding of the viral shedding and potential transmissibility of asymptomatic infection, large rigorous epidemiologic and experimental studies are needed."'


So "the people with the most training, education, and resources to do the investigations in a matter of life and death" forthrightly (to their credit) say their study doesn't resolve the most important question: How infectious are asymptomatic people (really, how infectious is anyone)?

I cited the NYT article because it provided a new (for me) look into what "testing positive" means. And it doesn't mean what I thought it meant. Testing positive or negative isn't really a binary condition.

My broader point is, "the people with the most training, education, and resources" can be on opposite sides of the same questions. Which means we lay people and our official "leaders" have to sort things out with uncertain scientific guidance. When the "experts" don't know, we don't either.

JAORE said...

If I had Steve Martin's money I'd have a mask made that features the lower half of my face in print.

bagoh20 said...

Tim, I'm not retrieving all the links for studies refuting your faith. You obviously know how to find things, so why don't you know about them?

loudogblog said...

I'm surprised by how many people don't really get the joke. A big part of his comedy is to make fun of himself. Steve Martin is a really nice guy. Back in March, I was designing the lighting for the melodrama, Riverboat Revenge, in the Bird Cage Theater at Knott's Berry Farm. Because the park was suddenly closed by the pandemic, we still haven't done the show for an audience. (I'm sure that we will once the park fully re-opens.) Steve was one of the performers in the Bird Cage Theater at Knott's back in the early 1960s and everyone who knew him has only nice things to say about him.

tim in vermont said...

"You obviously know how to find things, so why don't you know about them?”

I am calling bullshit. Why should I spend my time trying to find stuff I don’t think exists? It’s pretty funny that you would use the term “faith” when you are the one who doesn’t bring any evidence to the table.

tim in vermont said...

"large rigorous epidemiologic and experimental studies are needed.”'

More paltering. This is the same excuse that Whitmer used to ban HCQ. Except the observational studies show that HCQ works, for a while Inga used your same argument against it, BTW. The same kinds of studies that show that HCQ works show that mask mandates work.

Do we have “large rigorous experimental studies” to show that belladonna is poisonous? Or is it enough for us to observe that when people eat the berries, they die? Are you happy to eat deadly nightshade, as it is called, since there are no rigorous experiments, double blind of course, and with placebos, to show that it is indeed poisonous?

tim in vermont said...

What a surprise, all you had was bluster.

Bob said...

'"large rigorous epidemiologic and experimental studies are needed.”'

Tim, it wasn't my argument. The study you cited "to support your argument" uses that language. You've ended up arguing against yourself.

GRW3 said...

Actually, a simpler method would have been to pull the fake arrow-through-the-head out of the box of props he used to use in his stand up routines. Of course, if he would just carry his banjo around, that would ensure more than enough social distancing. (That's in jest, he is a very good banjo player. His Bluegrass albums, for which he wrote the music, with the Steep Canyon Rangers are very good.)