June 12, 2020

"Yes, racism is real, but as a crucial factor that enables or prevents social advancement, it has lost a lot of force in the past half century."

"I am sure that there are deep-seated inequality problems in America that affect everyone, and black people in particular. Some are institutional, but many have to do with the culture and behavior of black people themselves. I’m talking about lack of educational achievement, and about the higher crime rate; I’m talking about the collapse of the black family. Seven out of ten black children are born outside of marriage. It is a plausible surmise that households where a mother is present, but no father, are more likely to produce adolescent males with behavioral problems. People are frustrated that conventional political solutions, such as expanding anti-discrimination and welfare programs, have not worked. That’s why they take refuge in the empty thesis of racism. They speak of 1619, when the first blacks landed in America, and they speak of slavery, which was abolished more than 150 years ago. They talk of 'centuries of oppression.' But, they don’t talk about how the social condition of blacks in America well may have been healthier in 1950 than it is today—the integrity of family structure, the level of the crime rate, the relationship to work of the poorly educated, and the values with which many children are raised.... I think we do not live in a really free space where we can discuss these questions. Pressure to conform is intense because nobody wants to give the impression that they stand on the wrong side of the great moral questions of our time.... Because racists say that black crime is terrible, you are afraid even to address the issue and admit that it may be part of the problem.... So you’d rather be silent. And that gets us nowhere—or rather, it gets us to where we are today."

From says Glenn Loury in "Racism Is An Empty Thesis/An African-American professor says that blacks hold their fate in their own hands" (City Journal).

148 comments:

whitney said...

Oh having a black man validate them makes white people feel so good!!

Gusty Winds said...

That professor is obviously not really black. I'm sure we can find a white woman in Madison to point it out to him.

Browndog said...

This isn't about racism. It's about slavery.

"Racism" is a natural, human condition. Further, it's a belief that is not inherently good, bad, or indifferent.

Once again we are stuck debating issues on the terms set by liberals. So, go ahead and admit you're a racist. Denying it proves you.

Enjoy the show.

Heartless Aztec said...

When I was an inner city school I could tell by attitude and behavior which black males had a daddy at home.

Casey said...

Is it more racist to say that, or to say that only government and benevolent white people can solve the problems?

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

Do the math: over one-million interracial marriages a year vs ten-thousand acts of interracial violence. Love is winning. The media obscures the truth not presents it. Love is 100 TIMES as powerful a change force as hate. Words are meaningless. Look what America actually does.

AustinRoth said...

Well, so much for HIS academic career.

The leftist angry hate mob religion brooks no dissent, especially from the plantation. The heretic must be burned alive.

Owen said...

Glenn Loury is a rock star. But in today’s superheated environment, I fear for him. The sleep of reason breeds monsters, and they are abroad in a burning landscape.

Dave Begley said...

I just read this piece by Ann's old Blogging Heads cohort. I posted it on FB with the comment that he might not have his job much longer.

He's right about the Black culture in some big American cities; especially about out-of-wedlock births, violence and education. Education is a real sore spot with me. The Omaha Public Schools have horribly failed Blacks in Omaha and they spend something like $15k per kid K-12.

One of my former high school teachers, Fr. Jim Michalski, S.J., started a Jesuit grade school in North Omaha. His school has great results at a much lower cost.

Oso Negro said...

"I think we do not live in a really free space where we can discuss these questions. Pressure to conform is intense because nobody wants to give the impression that they stand on the wrong side of the great moral questions of our time. Ironically, this reticence undermines the possibility of genuine and effective moral reasoning. Instead, everyone follows the other, spouting platitudes, as in a herd. Everyone wants to underline their virtue by showing the world: I stand for “justice” and against “racism.”"

Glenn C Loury certainly got THAT right. I was banned from Facebook for 30 days as of this morning. My thoughtcrime? A post I made in 2017! The post consisted of the following image, without text: https://quadrant.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/hitler-on-a-sled.jpg

sunsong said...

My opinion: Presenting the views of an uncle tom doesn’t change anything. Even he agrees that blacks have bad schools! [hence substandard educations] What I’m suggesting to you is that racism is NOT likely to be tolerated in our future. Today’s youths do NOT accept it! [..and that includes education and ALL systemic racism in our country.]
The times have changed. What the cold-blooded murder of George Floyd sparked, what it unleashed, cannot be unleashed. Police brutality will NOT survive either, imo.

Big Mike said...

Glenn Loury wrote that? Now I have to see what else he’s written.

Fernandinande said...

Loury isn't nearly as bad as most "analysts" (experts!) on race issues, which isn't saying much, but he's still working from the fantasy world of the "blank slate".

Perhaps the most stunning finding is that once one accounts for the AFQT [IQ] score, the entire racial gap in mobility is eliminated for a broad portion of the distribution. At the very bottom and in the top half of the distribution a small gap remains, but it is not statistically significant."

Jersey Fled said...

Professor Loury is about to learn that he is not black.

Liberals always talk about having a dialogue. But that apparently just means listening to them. I think we can all predict the kind of dialogue the Left is going to have with Professor Laury.

Chris of Rights said...

I can't disagree with any of this. In fact, it mirrors my own thoughts. I did a quick analysis of murder numbers this week, and what I found will probably surprise no one.

Per capita by race, blacks have the highest chance in the U.S. by far of being a murder victim.
Per capita by race, blacks have the highest chance in the U.S. by far of being a murderer.
An overwhelming majority of this is black on black crime.

But...
Per capita by race, blacks have the highest chance in the U.S. by far of being a murder victim where the murderer is of another race.
Per capita by race, blacks have the highest chance in the U.S. by far of being a murderer where the murder victim is of another race.

If you're in to quick points based upon statistics, you can make whatever points that "prove" your narrative, no matter what that narrative is.

But to me, it seems clear that blacks are just involved in an overwhelming majority of violent crimes. We do not provide enough opportunities for blacks to escape places and situations where these crimes occur. We need better family structure and we need better education in the inner city. People have been saying both of these things for decades. And guess what? They're still true.

The environment of our inner cities is the problem. I don't think there's a racial component other than that our inner cities are often almost entirely populated by blacks. Whether this is desired by the black community or forced upon them by white suburbanites is up for debate. And while it might be an interesting debate, I'm much more interested in the debate as to how we solve it, than how we got here.

Quaestor said...

An African-American professor says that blacks hold their fate in their own hands.

Decent people hold this true because to believe otherwise, that some people by reason of their race are less responsible for themselves than others, i.e. are possessed of diminished agency, is tantamount to the ethics of the slavery institution of the antebellum South. Slaveholders justified "Negro bondage" partly from their interpretation of the Great Commission, the duty of Christians to evangelize the heathen, which had been taken as a justification of slavery since at least the time of Charlemagne (Slaves taken during Charlemagne's conquest of Saxony were sold in Rome and bought by bishops and cardinals.) and partly from readings from Aristotle on the nature of masters and slaves, which assert that persons incapable of self-government are by their immutable nature slaves and therefore better off held as chattel and governed by force.

Roy Jacobsen said...

whitney said...
Oh having a black man validate them makes white people feel so good!!

Was anything he said demonstrably false?

Do non-white people not feel good when someone validates them?

rhhardin said...

It's the free speech problem that Scott Adams is hinting at, perhaps to fend of cancellation for something coming up.

Anyway this is all obvious to all but only a black guy is allowed to say it at the moment.

One nit: "many more whites are victimized by blacks than vice versa, speaking in absolute numbers"

That has to be adjusted for relative population sizes. If there are a 99 whites and one black, and everybody victimizes one person at random, the black guy victimizes a white and the whites mostly victimize other whites, with racism having nothing to do with it.

Kevin said...

ML:
Look at those Korean motherfuckers
across the street. I betcha they
haven't been a year off da
motherfucking boat before they
opened up their own place.

COCONUT SID
It's been about a year.

ML
A motherfucking year off the
motherfucking boat and got a good
business in our neighborhood
occupying a building that had been
boarded up for longer than I care
to remember and I've been here a
long time.

SWEET DICK WILLIE
It has been a long time.

COCONUT SID
How long?

ML
Too long! Too long. Now for the
life of me, I haven't been able to
figger this out. Either dem
Koreans are geniuses or we Blacks
are dumb.

This is truly a stupefying question and all three are silent.
What is the answer?

COCONUT SID
It's gotta be cuz we're Black. No
other explanation, nobody don't
want the Black man to be about shit.

SWEET DICK WILLIE
Old excuse.

ML
I'll be one happy fool to see us
have our own business right here.
Yes, sir. I'd be the first in line
to spend the little money I got.

Sweet Dick Willie gets up from his folding chair.

SWEET DICK WILLIE
It's Miller time. Let me go give
these Koreans s'more business.

ML
It's a motherfucking shame.

COCONUT SID
Ain't that a bitch.

Roy Jacobsen said...

sunsong said...
My opinion: Presenting the views of an uncle tom doesn’t change anything.

Straight to ad-hominem. That's dialog for you.

Was anything he said demonstrably false?

Quaestor said...

sunsong wrote: My opinion: Presenting the views of an uncle tom doesn’t change anything.

Your opinion is disgustingly racist, sunsong. You ought to hang your head in shame and offer a personal apology to Dr. Loury. However, besides being a racist you have in the past exhibited nothing here but firm evidence of arrogant and implacable ignorance, ergo decent people will expect you to continue to live down to the most vile aspects of your nature.

Pookie Number 2 said...

Presenting the views of an uncle tom doesn’t change anything.

How dare that black man think in a manner that sunsong hasn’t approved?!

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

sunsong - your calling Glenn Loury an "Uncle Tom" reveals what a low-life imbecilic racist YOU are. Shameful.

Kevin said...

Racism is a terrible thing in this country.

Until it means you have to stop discriminating against Asians.

Then the race hustlers are all for it.

AMDG said...

1. The prejudice that blacks face today is a function of the crime rate.

2. The crime rate is a result of the breakdown of the family structure and the failure of education

3. These issues will never be addressed because there is too much grift available in maintenance of the current course.

ColoradoDude said...

Loury’s conversation certainly has more nuances than the brief excerpt chosen by Althouse. It’s worth a read.

I really wish tha Loury had mentioned two important studies about the impact of extracting working aged men out of their villages.

A study of 20th century economic success/failure in West Africa found that today’s nation states that percentage wise lost more people to the trans-Atlantic slave trade are worse off than neighboring states who weren’t as severely impacted by that terrible trade.

A study of Andean highlands considered the colonial “mita” system where working aged men were “drafted” to work the silver mines of Potosi (in today’s Bolivia). These communities, all about the altitude of Potosi, were compared to villages that were either more than 500 feet higher or lower than the targeted villages. The study found that, even in the 20th century, those villages were poorer and less entrepreneurial than their nearby no-draft villages.

American historians have counted the number of broken slave families where, pre-Civil War, the men were sold away from their spouse and children. Those broken families may well be the precursors of today’s mom only households.

Loury’s conversation mentions today’s African American family structures as an impediment to economic success for the children in those families. It’s horrifying to contemplate that today’s problems didn’t start with today’s inequities.

How we assist in creating a culture of successful child rearing is well beyond my pay grade. But we ought to consider whether virtue signaling AND “they need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps” ay both be just plain wrong.

wendybar said...

And all of your donations to BLM are going to the DNC. To donate to BLM you donate to Actblue. ActBlue is a political action committee that raises funds for Democratic and progressive candidates, campaigns, and organizations through its online platform. The organization says they "build and power the premier online fundraising platform for Democratic campaigns, progressive organizations, and nonprofits working to create a better future." So tell me again how this isn't all political in an election year?????

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

Wow, sunsong. “Uncle Tom”!?

As your side likes to say, FOUND THE RACIST!


exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...

sunsong is a racist.

mezzrow said...

You're not allowed to say or even think these things. Glenn has been able to do so to date because of his intelligence, charm, and undeniable blackness. Let's see what happens.

He knows what he's doing and he's at a place in his life where he probably thinks he doesn't care what they do to him for it. They knew what they were getting when they hired him.

That was then, this is now. This bears watching, and I watch Glenn regularly.

rhhardin said...

But, they don’t talk about how the social condition of blacks in America well may have been healthier in 1950 than it is today—the integrity of family structure, the level of the crime rate, the relationship to work of the poorly educated, and the values with which many children are raised.

Curiously, I wrote exactly this somewhere yesterday....

"To break the loop, it's hopeless to concentrate on the policing. You have to teach good character instead of resentment. Good character beats IQ as a ticket to advancement in the U.S.

That's more or less the state blacks were in in the 50s. Good character worked. As MLK pointed out. Still banned from restaurants in the South, but rising economically."

http://disq.us/p/29vcv29

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

How come black kids learn just fine in private schools but public schools are unable to even keep them near their grade level work? Using ProgMetrics my analyses says “Public schools are obviously racist” because of the obviously disparate outcome between private and public schools. Ergo Democrats who run the schools are obviously racist!

Quaestor said...

Arguing that, because of the undeniable correlation poverty and violent crime, poverty causes crime is as attributing the wind to the swaying of the trees.

The statistics of violent crime committed by blacks are alarming, however, it is difficult to extract from those FBI data reliable information regarding the pervasiveness of black crime, i.e. the scale of the minority of black males who are habitual criminals.

gilbar said...

Seven out of ten black children are born outside of marriage.

Ignoring race....
What percentage of this years rioters (sorry! 'protesters') are born outside of marriage?

ProTip: Don't want your kids to end up in prison, or the morgue? TRY MARRIAGE!!!

William said...

You can't make omelets without chicken coops and tons of chicken shit. I'm pretty sure that slavery, Jim Crow, and racism have had some lasting impact on the souls of black people. I'm also sure that black people have made decisions that aggravated rather than eased the burden of racism, but to make such a point aggravates rather than eases the burden of racism.....I suppose in another century or so it's posssible that we'll have this straightened out. Four generations ago my ancestors were Catholic, Lutheran and Jewish. So far as who cheats on their wife or sleeps in on the Sabbath I don't think these religious differences counted for much, but people thought they did. A few generations earlier they killed each other for religious differences...Maybe the world will get better so far as racial differences go, but people will just find some other reason to hurt and hate each other.

rhhardin said...

Lourey doesn't mention average black IQ, but I think that's what's responsible for the racism narrative. Groups are not allowed to have different average IQs, so it must be racism when standardized tests of various kinds, like lieutenants' exams, produce different results.

Then you tell the blacks that it's hopeless, you're being discriminated against, and that's why you haven't gotten anywhere. Hence culture of resentment and angry young males who can't get anywhere. Mostly because they're resentful and who hires a resentful person.

But good character trumps IQ. You fit in where you fit in, and fitting in is success. Identify as American, not as black.

RK said...

In the meantime, dark-skinned Asians are doing fine in America.

Wa St Blogger said...

If all you have is a hammer, then all problems look like nails. The people who are the spokesmen for the black community see only racism as the cause of every inequity in America. Any effort by someone to assign agency to blacks for part of their plight have to be destroyed. If they are white, they are simply dismissed as racists. If they are black they are vilified as Uncle Toms. When the attitude that STEM is racism, that academic achievement makes you an oreo, then it will be hard for blacks to compete in America. That is why it is important for the left to declare that whiteness itself is a racist condition. They have to destroy everything that white people have created (remove all books from your shelves that were written by white people.) So, if you are using logic to solve this problem, that makes you a racist, and thus your solution racist. Every black problem is a the result of white racism from the very foundation of western society and of the United States (1619). Thus you can only solve the problem by destroying the cancer of white society. No other options are valid. To say otherwise is to prove your racism.

gilbar said...

Gusty Winds said...
That professor is obviously not really black. I'm sure we can find a white woman in Madison to point it out to him.


THIRTEEN MINUTES LATER...
sunsong said...
My opinion: Presenting the views of an uncle tom doesn’t change anything. Even he agrees that blacks have bad schools! [hence substandard educations]


Can you BELIEVE IT? IT took THIRTEEN MINUTES

rehajm said...

Presenting the views of an uncle tom doesn’t change anything.

Yah, that's disturbingly racist language. Today's young people are not going to tolerate it from a privileged white guy.

wildswan said...

If I were police chief in Minneapolis I would go through the records and find all the police officers trained by Derek Chauvin and all the police officers then trained by the Chauvin trainees and so on. And get them together and retrain them. After all, we have on tape exactly what Chauvin's training methods were and exactly what he taught rookies. I would use that dreadful sequence to lead to discussions maybe everywhere in police training - why the rookies did nothing, when is it time to learn and when is it time to speak up (questions for rookies); why was Chauvin training police officers (a question for police leaders) and. in retrospect, were there red flags and, if so, what were they? I've been arrested in the prolife wars and I can say from personal experience that there are police officers that get control of the situation and then there are a few police officers that continue to inflict pain, on and on and on, because they like it. They don't just behave that way to members of the black community but to anyone in a weak position socially and that's what prolifers were. But that means that members of the black community have been their target often and often. When you're the target of these rogue police it is unmistakable what's going on but it's also impossible to prove. It's similar to what the regular police are doing but pointlessly prolonged or includes unseen nerve pressures or includes tricks like suddenly letting your weight drop onto and hang from a twisted arm. There's a picture of the young Bernie Sanders being "arrested" with this kind of trick going on. Look at his right arm.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-bernie-sanders-1963-chicago-arrest-20160219-story.html

Browndog said...

Hate your fellow man yet?

That is the goal.

Take a break and enjoy 30 seconds of love. You'll feel better.

rcocean said...

Loury is right of course, as he usually is. The real question is why so many well-to-do whites are obsessed with "racism" and getting rid of Confederate monuments, banning GWTW, and enforcing speech codes and censoring people. Most black people aren't out burning, looting, and rioting. In fact, the MSM quite deliberately REFUSED to do any analysis of the racial and political makeup of the "Protesters".

That wasn't part of "The narrative">

Fernandinande said...

Was anything he said demonstrably false?

"Our fate is in our hands."

Most of what he said was a bunch of fluffy platitudes.

But good character trumps IQ.

No it doesn't. You can't enter, or function in, any of the professions he mentioned — "lawyer, doctor, engineer, or scientist" — by being dumb and having a good character, but you can get there by being smart and having a shitty character, hence the term "high-functioning psychopath", perhaps e.g. the Clintons.

Birches said...

Loury, McHorter and a couple of other "unconventional" black academics are being very courageous, trying to get a conversation started that disrupts the narrative. I don't agree with Loury on much, but I'm grateful he's trying to make a front line so that others can take cover behind him.

Rick said...

sunsong said...
My opinion: Presenting the views of an uncle tom doesn’t change anything.


Another white woman deciding what beliefs a black man can have. Lovely.

Quaestor said...

William wrote: I'm pretty sure that slavery, Jim Crow, and racism have had some lasting impact on the souls of black people.

I don't know what a soul is or whether a person's skin color tints the pneuma as well. However, as it is invisible and untouchable by the outside world, the soul can only affect itself.

As a frequent traveler in Ireland, I have encountered an attitude among some Irishmen toward the British similar to attitudes held by some blacks and many neofascist whites like sunsong against other American races, chiefly whites and Asians. These people profoundly resent the fact their island republic is consistently at or near the bottom of social and economic statistics within the EU. They blame their condition on "the bluddy English" and "the fucking Protestants" of Ulster, and they have convinced themselves that among the member states of the European Union, Ireland is uniquely unfortunate and historically oppressed. One well-lubricated Irishman put it to me in these terms, "We're the niggers of Europe, boyo."

When I pointed out that many former Soviet satellite states that are prosperous today, chiefly Poland, the Baltic states, and the Czech Republic, have much more tragic and bloody recent histories than Ireland has had since the 17th century -- well, they said I was an arrogant and stupid American of illegitimate birth. It occurred to me then that Ireland's claim to nationhood would be enhanced by a healthy dose of self-reliance.

rhhardin said...

Derbyshire

Linguistically, this whole zone is a mess. It's a mess because we're afraid to speak honestly about what's going on. When people are afraid to speak honestly, it's because there are true facts in the world that they'd prefer not to face.

True facts like these: For white yuppies from gentrified neighborhoods, a free public swimming pool is a place to swim a little, sunbathe a little, have fun with the kids a little if you're married, flirt a little if you're not, and catch up on some reading. For young blacks and Hispanics from the projects, it's a place to show off, status-challenge other young toughs, get in fights, and defy authority.

The two things don't mix. Whoever thought they would — whoever spent $50 million to bring this pool back to commission, with open admission for all who show up — is an idiot, an idiot whose brain has been addled by the kind of dishonest, reality-defying linguistic malpractice on display in the New York newspapers this week.

https://www.johnderbyshire.com/Opinions/RadioDerb/2015-06-13.html#07

Jersey Fled said...

I would rather my kids be of lower IQ and good character than high IQ and low character. People of high character tend to find their way in life.

Maybe you heard about the two lawyers arrested in NYC for fired bombing police cars.

Jersey Fled said...

A community pools is a lot easier to build than a functioning school system, yet still allows smug liberals their full measure of virtue signaling.

Quaestor said...

I stopped reading sunsong's 7:58 comment when the phrase uncle tom registered in my brain.

A few minutes ago I returned to her comment to be certain my denunciation was fitting and proper, which had me reading this gem:

The times have changed. What the cold-blooded murder of George Floyd sparked, what it unleashed, cannot be unleashed. Police brutality will NOT survive either, imo.

Now I'm unsure of my opinion regarding her racism. It may be the case that sunsong is too fucking stupid to be fairly classed as a racist bigot.

Quaestor said...

I stopped reading sunsong's 7:58 comment when the phrase uncle tom registered in my brain.

A few minutes ago I returned to her comment to be certain my denunciation was fitting and proper, which had me reading this gem:

The times have changed. What the cold-blooded murder of George Floyd sparked, what it unleashed, cannot be unleashed. Police brutality will NOT survive either, imo.

Now I'm unsure of my opinion regarding her racism. It may be the case that sunsong is too fucking stupid to be fairly classed as a racist bigot.

Sebastian said...

"People are frustrated that conventional political solutions, such as expanding anti-discrimination and welfare programs, have not worked."

They have worked from a large segment of the black community. They have made things worse for another segment.

"That’s why they take refuge in the empty thesis of racism."

Some nice liberals take refuge. But most activists eagerly embrace it as the most powerful tool in the prog struggle for control and structural change. Frustration has nothing to do with it; in fact, progs would like ordinary programs to fail a little more, and make living conditions of blacks a little worse, the better to foment revolution. Hence the support for destructive riots.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

Sunsong reveals the disease that is the left. the modern left are unwilling to read, comprehend, or attempt to understand history or reality or an open dialog. No - the white left shut down dialog and condemn anyone of color who chose to express an opinion that is contrary to the leftwing hivemind. That is why Sunsong is a racist.

'Shut up', said the racist left.

The funny deal about the Russia Russia left - they are the true SOVIETS - the real jailers of free speech - the modern leftwing-hivemind group-think clap-trap.

sunsong said...

clearly what I hear Loury saying is that blacks should try to be 'more white' and value money and 'power over' like whites, he admires, do. They should worship money, not Love and look up to the 'money changers'

Ben Carson is another uncle tom...they're out there arguing that if blacks were just more like whites, and admiring of them...they too could become wealthy and important

"pull yourselves up by your bootstraps" he says to those with no boots!

Michael K said...

unsong said...
My opinion: Presenting the views of an uncle tom doesn’t change anything.


You meant your knee jerk.

chuck said...

I agree with Loury. The decay of Black institutions beyond the family has also played a role, as has the decay of female institutions for the feminist movement.

what'supberg? said...

And I'm afraid that if I post this excellent letter I'll lose my job.

Jersey Fled said...

One of the things I enjoy about the NFL draft is the back story of some of the young men who are drafted. Stories about the struggles of parents, grandparents, and others to raise them with the right values. Stories of the young men themselves and the daily struggles they faced growing up in tough circumstances. All stories about character.

Some teams rank character as one of the first things they look for in a young recruit. High character kids are regularly drafted ahead of more talented recruits with more pure talent.

William said...

I read a book about Wellington's army in Spain. The Irish made up thirty percent of his army but received sixty percent of the floggings. Floggings were administered for such trivial offenses as breaking route step to walk around a mud puddle. Catholics--read the Irish--were not allowed to hold commissioned rank.
Irish resentment of the English is not based on some paranoid delusion...I can't think of any time that anyone here in America has discriminated against me because I'm Irish Catholic, but the effects of such long ago discrimination are bred in my bones.....My father was first generation Irish. The Germans made several sincere efforts to kill him, but he didn't hold it against them. Those wacky krauts, always trying to kill you. His deepest resentment was against the English. Perfidious Albion....Well, he has an Irish father, which is to say an absent one so I never acquired those prejudices. But people are entitled to some of their prejudices.

jnseward said...

I'm glad he said it because as a white man I am forbidden from saying it.

Narayanan said...

I do so wish ivy-tower intellectuals would reference with their cultural understanding with imagery

for me the most thrilling and relevant and meaningful scene from Conan The Barbarian -

when Conan strikes the chain off for the female warrior so she can fight her tormentors

Yancey Ward said...

WTF does Loury know- he ain't black.

Narayanan said...

In 1982, at age 33, he (Loury) became the first black tenured professor of economics in the history of Harvard University. He is the Merton P. Stoltz Professor of the Social Sciences and Professor of Economics at Brown University.
-------------============
I wonder if William A. Jacobson at Legal Insurrection can round up his support

Craig Howard said...

Lourey doesn't mention average black IQ, but I think that's what's responsible for the racism narrative.

I agree.

The racism narrative falls apart when you consider the millions of extremely successful blacks in the U.S..

n.n said...

America is an experiment in reconciliation of individual dignity and general Welfare. Americans were defined by their unique reconciliation of prudence and boldness, of classical liberalism tempered by Christian philosophy.

Diversity or color judgment, is not limited to "racism", but includes sexism, classicism, etc.

High character kids are regularly drafted ahead of more talented recruits with more pure talent.

A team sport. A nation, a community, if you will. A family, mom and dad, equal and complementary, at its foundation.

That's more or less the state blacks were in in the 50s. Good character worked.

Yes. The obvious forcing of their progress was "The Great Society" and its aftermath of social rackets, where men's stature was reduced in their eyes and the eyes of women. Where children would develop without the equal and complementary influence of mom and dad. And at its root was the poorly conceived forward-looking movement to keep women barefoot, available, and taxable. #BabyLivesMatter

The Crack Emcee said...

This is silly:

Like there "Hands up, don't shoot" obsession, you guys fret over what's not true to avoid dealing with what is.

Here - fight real racism for a change and quit battling with phantoms.

hombre said...

“Because racists say that black crime is terrible, you are afraid even to address the issue and admit that it may be part of the problem....”

Loury speaks with great courage, no doubt earning himself the enmity of the leftist hive mind. However, I think he is slightly off in the observation above. Black crime is terrible! It is not racist to say so.

If black crime were reduced to proportionate levels, it could change everything. THAT is the reason the collective is “afraid even to address the issue.” If fear of black crime and criminals were diminished, there would be no Democrat plantation, young black men could pursue productive lives without fearing forceable recruitment to gangs, race-baiting black grifters like Sharpton would have no power, the police could stop worrying that the next black man would shoot them, black girls could pass puberty without being raped, and on and on.

Think about it! Blacks kill each other by the thousands. Silence. Blacks commit more than half the violent crimes in cities. Silence. Black criminals dominate the drug trade in their community. Silence. If the black crime conversation heats up, who loses? Democrats. Gangs. Drug dealers. Race baiters. BLM Marxists, reparationists, professors. You know, all the good guys. /Sarc

So it won’t happen.

Roy Jacobsen said...

Not "fluffy platitudes:"

"Let politicians, schoolteachers and administrators, community leaders, ministers and parents drill into children the message that in a free society, they enter adulthood with three major responsibilities: at least finish high school, get a full-time job and wait until age 21 to get married and have children.

"Our research shows that of American adults who followed these three simple rules, only about 2 percent are in poverty and nearly 75 percent have joined the middle class (defined as earning around $55,000 or more per year)."

https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/three-simple-rules-poor-teens-should-follow-to-join-the-middle-class/

Francisco D said...

The racial dialogue has become mired in bullshit and guilt tripping.

What is the difference between "racism" and "prejudice"?

What is "systemic racism" and how is it built into a society? (vs. the results of poor behavioral choices)

People making the lefty arguments about systemic racism cannot define their terms because they are gaslighting those with poor reasoning skills.

hombre said...

Whitney: “Oh having a black man validate them makes white people feel so good!!”

If it were not so, Obama, Sharpton and Jesse Jackson and son would be on welfare. The lefties and their pet snowflakes love ‘em.

tcrosse said...

They should worship money, not Love and look up to the 'money changers'

If money is to be despised, of what should Reparations consist? Is 'money changers' a euphemism for the Jews?

Jupiter said...

"... blacks hold their fate in their own hands."

Yeah, that's the problem, alroight.

But that's not what these riots are about.

RobinGoodfellow said...

I foresee a great cancelling in Glenn Loury’s future.

Narayanan said...

what is Uncle Tom? is he married to Aunt Jemima? do they have kids?

Quaestor said...

Is 'money changers' a euphemism for the Jews?

Need you ask?

MadisonMan said...

There are too many people who are trapped in the past. I am curious why that is, but it's not something that can be addressed in this present.

JAORE said...

"...racism is NOT likely to be tolerated in our future."

Be sure to make daily updates on what you brand as racism. I quit making own list when I found out "golf" was racist when describing Obama's hobby (but not Trumps) and peanut butter sandwiches were racist. Frankly it was too hard to keep up to speed.

Since then I've just assumed my white privilege made every thought and deed was tainted by racism.

But your list will, no doubt, help me root out the most obvious of my sins.

hombre said...

Sunsong: “My opinion: Presenting the views of an uncle tom doesn’t change anything. Even he agrees that blacks have bad schools! [hence substandard educations] ....”

Uncle Tom? This accomplished black man? Sunsong begins by flinging poo, because it’s what lefties doo. Then he floats a disproved talking point about schools because we all know that black students are clamoring for quality education. Why just look at how they have thrived in first class, expensive educational environments created by court orders. /Sarc.

Just another Honky pointing out that education and academic achievement by an African-American doesn’t insulate him from lefty racism.

exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...

"No - the white left shut down dialog and condemn anyone of color who chose to express an opinion that is contrary to the leftwing hivemind.:

In another thread, the notable idiot anti-shitter or whatever his nic is, said that you are a racist if you have ever criticized Kapernick or BLM.

It's so cute, these white privileged leftists setting themselves up as the Arbiters of Moral Speech.

Just like the elderly, scoldy Mrs. Grundys of the Victorian era.

mikee said...

You want to eliminate most of the actual racism in the US?
Stop government and academia from ever, ever, ever noticing officially the skin color of anyone.

Yancey Ward said...

"How we assist in creating a culture of successful child rearing is well beyond my pay grade. But we ought to consider whether virtue signaling AND “they need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps” ay both be just plain wrong."

You assist by rewarding marriage, not actively subsidizing single-motherhood at the expense of marriage. The problem really is very simple to understand- women cannot raise boys to be responsible adults, and it is increasingly obvious they can't raise the daughters either. There should be an increase in financial support to women who marry, or are married to, their childrens' father. You start there, and hope that, in three generations' time, we have undone the damage done in the last three.

Yancey Ward said...

"How we assist in creating a culture of successful child rearing is well beyond my pay grade. But we ought to consider whether virtue signaling AND “they need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps” ay both be just plain wrong."

You assist by rewarding marriage, not actively subsidizing single-motherhood at the expense of marriage. The problem really is very simple to understand- women cannot raise boys to be responsible adults, and it is increasingly obvious they can't raise the daughters either. There should be an increase in financial support to women who marry, or are married to, their childrens' father. You start there, and hope that, in three generations' time, we have undone the damage done in the last three.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

sunsong griped by left-wing racism,. You can hear it.

exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...

"pull yourselves up by your bootstraps" he says to those with no boots!

6/12/20, 9:38 AM

Tell us, sunsong the racist, what boots did Ben Carson have? Or Clarence Thomas?

Both were born poor in a segregated America.

Char Char Binks, Esq. said...

Sunsong will NOT ACCEPT freedom of speech!

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

Anyone who uses ugly language like "uncle Tom" is no different that someone who uses the "N" word.

vile.

Fernandinande said...

Since I referenced Hsu, here's from a recent post of his (linked from "University of California to end use of SAT and ACT"):

"SAT and HSGPA [HS GPA] are stronger predictors [of college success] than family income or race. Within each of the family income or ethnicity categories there is substantial variation in SAT and HSGPA, with corresponding differences in student success. See bottom figure and combined model R^2 in second figure below; R^2 varies very little across family income and ethnic categories."

"Our research shows that of American adults who followed these three simple rules, ...

Now all you need is some evidence that people can decide whether or not to act that way, IOW change their personalities in order to act with more intelligence and self-control, and with less short-sighted impulsiveness.

Good luck with that - The genetics of impulsivity: evidence for the heritability of delay discounting

"The present results strongly suggest that individual differences in the extent to which individuals tend to discount delayed consequences of their actions in favor of immediate rewards are substantially influenced by genetic factors.

This finding has important implications for the understanding of the etiological pathways to a range of abnormal behaviors such as ADHD, conduct disorder, and substance use disorders.

These conditions are heritable, show a high degree of comorbidity, and share a common dysfunction, namely, abnormally high levels of impulsivity."

wild chicken said...

"public schools are unable to even keep them near their grade level work?"

I highly recommended lurking at reddit /Teachers for a few weeks to see all the earnest liberal sjw public school teachers tear their hair out about it.

You have to read between the lines, because they rarely mention race. Instead it's "I teach at a Title 1 school" or "urban school" or some shit. But you can see what's happening. Social promotion k-12. The students are awful, the parents worse. No matter what teachers do to make it all Fun! and Relevant! It's never enough.

Admin won't allow flunking. Lawsuits are threatened because Racism!! Public school teachers deserve combat pay and I support their unions 100%.

Charter schools don't have to put up with this. And there are some sleazy charters out there too. My company dealt with them so don't get me started.

Jupiter said...

"Warm beer, cold women"? What?

Tell you what, Crack. You want me to boycott that place? It's a deal. Not that I'm ever within 500 miles of it.

FWBuff said...

I appreciate Prof. Loury's courage to express these arguments, but I found this note at the bottom of the article to be very sad:

"Glenn C. Loury is the Merton P. Stoltz Professor of the Social Sciences in the Department of Economics at Brown University. Peter Winkler is the U.S. correspondent for the Swiss daily newspaper Neue Zuercher Zeitung (NZZ). This interview originally appeared in NZZ and is translated, adapted, and republished with permission."

Why does it take a translated article from a Swiss newspaper to present this viewpoint to an American audience? What an indictment against our "free press"!

Richard said...

"The environment of our inner cities is the problem. I don't think there's a racial component other than that our inner cities are often almost entirely populated by blacks."

And run by Democrats!

Richard said...


And right on cue:

"Blogger sunsong said...
My opinion: Presenting the views of an uncle tom doesn’t change anything."

Jupiter said...

"To make matters worse, real racists still exist in America—people convinced of the superiority of whites and the inferiority of blacks. They believe that the problems we are discussing are proof of supposed black inferiority."

Thanks for the shout-out, Glenn. Nice to know someone is paying attention.

I suppose it's tough, being a sharp guy like Loury, and knowing that lots of people think your race is uniquely problematic, even though you are not. But I consider the fact, that most people think my sex is uniquely problematic. They say that members of my sex commit most crime, and almost all violent crime and rape. And that is why so many of my sex are locked up in prison, or get killed by cops. You know what? They're right. That Y chromosome is a killer. No point in denying it.

Unknown said...

Really brave commentator. He gives me hope that we can withstand the BLM destruction. But only a little bit of hope. I see more and more people retreating into their tribes. I know I have.

gadfly said...

Sometimes it is very prudent to pay attention to old fart contrarians like Glenn Loury. His descriptions of reality immediately gets past the emotionalism of today's real racists.

Thanks for the "find," Anne.

Drago said...

sunsong: "clearly what I hear Loury saying is that blacks should try to be 'more white' and value money and 'power over' like whites, he admires, do."

Oh, no doubt that is clearly what you wanted to hear.

No disagreement on that.

wholelottasplainin' said...

sunsong said...
My opinion: Presenting the views of an uncle tom doesn’t change anything. Even he agrees that blacks have bad schools! [hence substandard educations] What I’m suggesting to you is that racism is NOT likely to be tolerated in our future. Today’s youths do NOT accept it! [..and that includes education and ALL systemic racism in our country.]
The times have changed. What the cold-blooded murder of George Floyd sparked, what it unleashed, cannot be unleashed. Police brutality will NOT survive either, imo
**************

By using the term "uncle tom", you revealed yourself to be nothing but a BIGOT.

wholelottasplainin' said...

The Crack Emcee said...
This is silly:

Like there "Hands up, don't shoot" obsession, you guys fret over what's not true to avoid dealing with what is.

Here - fight real racism for a change and quit battling with phantoms.
****************

Crack, I guess you averted your gaze when the Marching Morons passed with their hands up. By the tens of thousands.

What about YOUR phantoms?

Drago said...

Lefties have attacked and defaced and destroyed memorials to anti-slavery abolitionists, blacks who have fought for the United States, Abraham Lincoln, Winston Churchill, and Christopher Columbus.

But remember, the Russia Russia Russia crew told us it was only those darn Confederates they were after......but we always knew they were lying about that, didn't we?

n.n said...

Bias is natural. Prejudice is progressive. Bigotry (i.e. sanctimonious hypocrisy) is a socioeconopolitical construct.

If money is to be despised

Eggs. An egg for an egg, a horse of course.

RichAndSceptical said...

It took me many years to accept that my failures were almost always completely my fault. I think many in a minority community may have been taught that their failures are because of their race, their gender, their sexual preference, etc.

Drago said...

gadfly: "Sometimes it is very prudent to pay attention to old fart contrarians like Glenn Loury."

The Althouse white lefties really don't like Loury, do they?

The Crack Emcee said...

"I’m talking about lack of educational achievement"

I'm not going to take seriously a comment that doesn't address how whites warped blacks and education from Day One. How can you forbid reading for centuries and then expect everyone to want to hit the books?

It's insanity and cruel.

Quaestor said...

FWBuff writes: Why does it take a translated article from a Swiss newspaper to present this viewpoint to an American audience? What an indictment against our "free press"!

But wonder on till truth makes all things plain.

Michael K said...

I'm not going to take seriously a comment that doesn't address how whites warped blacks and education from Day One. How can you forbid reading for centuries and then expect everyone to want to hit the books?

I assume you are referring to the Irish, called "Paddies" by the English and starved and shipped off to America where they also exiled criminals until the American Revolution.

I also assume you know about The Northwest Ordinance of 1787, which banned slavery outside the South.

Considered one of the most important legislative acts of the Confederation Congress,[3] it established the precedent by which the Federal government would be sovereign and expand westward with the admission of new states, rather than with the expansion of existing states and their established sovereignty under the Articles of Confederation. It also set legislative precedent with regard to American public domain lands.[4] The U.S. Supreme Court recognized the authority of the Northwest Ordinance of 1789 within the applicable Northwest Territory as constitutional in Strader v. Graham,[5] but did not extend the Ordinance to cover the respective states once they were admitted to the Union.

The prohibition of slavery in the territory had the practical effect of establishing the Ohio River as the geographic divide between slave states and free states from the Appalachian Mountains to the Mississippi River (an extension of the Mason–Dixon line). It also helped set the stage for later political conflicts over slavery at the federal level in the 19th century until the Civil War.


I assumed you knew that.

Nah. Just kidding.

Jim at said...

My opinion: Presenting the views of an uncle tom doesn’t change anything. - sunsong

The very definition of racism. Congrats.

cubanbob said...

Quaestor you should have told the drunk Mick that best of Ireland emigrated which is why Ireland is at the bottom of the barrel.

The law of no good deed goes unpunished and the law of unintended consequences can be laid at the feet of the Democrat Party. Get rid of government husband and the destruction of the poor urban black family largely goes away. Not just blacks, but Latino and whites as well.

exhelodrvr1 said...

It's not a question of expecting or not expecting. It simply has to happen, or the bottom economic half of the blacks will fall so far behind it will be impossible for them to catch up.

Francisco D said...

The Crack Emcee said...I'm not going to take seriously a comment that doesn't address how whites warped blacks and education from Day One. How can you forbid reading for centuries and then expect everyone to want to hit the books

That was a valid argument until Hmong tribespeople immigrated here after the Viet Nam war. If I recall correctly, they did not have a written language. However, their kids and other Vietnamese did quite well in the CA educational system.

Also, the argument does not account for Blacks with exceptional education achievement, like my former BIL - Ivy League BA, Top Five Law School JD. Highest LSAT score for a Black student at the time. He and his sister were the first in the maternal and paternal families to attend college. His sister (my ex-wife) was even smarter. She made a ton of money as an entrepreneur, after the divorce of course.

The legacy of slavery is awful, but it does not persist forever.

Drago said...

Crack: "I'm not going to take seriously a comment that doesn't address how whites warped blacks and education from Day One."

I went to schools that were majority black (SF Bay) where blacks literally beat the snot out of black kids who did well in school for "acting white".

I get the feeling Crack might have been one of the brutha's beating the snot out of the other kids who got better grades because, lets face it, if those black kids were getting good grades that sort of shoots a hole in Crack's theories.

Quaestor said...

How can you forbid reading for centuries and then expect everyone to want to hit the books?... It's insanity and cruel.

It's insanity because what's implied is substantially not true. In fact, it runs counter to all human nature. When something is officially forbidden, it only whets the appetite for the forbidden thing, particularly when the rationale given for the proscription makes little sense to those affected by the denial of that thing. Think of beer and wine during Prohibition, cocaine, heroin, pot, and the viewing of "soft porn" erotica by 12-year-old boys. Furthermore, the prohibition Crack apparently refers to did not apply everywhere -- in fact, it did not apply generally in the antebellum North, except brief between 1850 and 1861. In fact, much of the activities of Abolitionists like William Lloyd Garrison and Susan B. Anthony consisted of founding and funding schools for runaway slaves and their children when the Congregational church decided to exclude adult black students in the wake of the 1850 Fugitive Slave Act. I believe you'll find whatever indifference to education exists among African-Americans dates from the 1960s and not the 1850s.

I know a little about this subject from a sideline income I earned selling collectible ceramics online. In the genre of antique Catawba pottery, pieces by David Drake (c.1800 - c.1870) are highly prized and sought after because they are often signed and, rarely, are inscribed with Bible verses and lines of Drake's own poetry. Drake was enslaved from birth in South Carolina, where it was a crime from 1740 to educate a black person. Nevertheless, David Drake was taught to read and write by his first master, Harvey Blake, who was never arrested or prosecuted for his alleged crime of teaching a black child to read and write. I sold several of his pots on commission, and own one myself, though it's not a good one as it is cracked and missing about a third of the top. However, on the base it's signed Dave. If it had a verse inscribed it would have been on the top surface under the rim, which is largely gone on my example.

And speaking of making sense, you usually make sense, Crack, but not at 1:17 PM.

Jupiter said...

"Because racists say that black crime is terrible, you are afraid even to address the issue and admit that it may be part of the problem. For example, you are afraid to say that in certain cities police officers fear young black men because those men are too often armed and known to be willing to use their weapons. These are facts—but you are afraid to acknowledge them because these are exactly the things that white racists also say."

Pesky white racists, always saying things that are true!

Jupiter said...

"Anyone who uses ugly language like "uncle Tom" is no different that someone who uses the "N" word."

There is a lot t be said for calling a spade a spade. The suppression of words is always about the suppression of ideas.

Quaestor said...

Irish resentment of the English is not based on some paranoid delusion...I can't think of any time that anyone here in America has discriminated against me because I'm Irish Catholic, but the effects of such long-ago discrimination are bred in my bones...

Malarky. Who mentioned paranoid delusions? Not me. Irish hostility to the English isn't paranoia. It exists like most pervasive hatreds because it serves a wider purpose. It's passed on in dinner table conversation, public house songs, and questionable family lore.

Many years back I was on a riding tour of Counties Dublin, Meath, and Kildare which involved overnight stays at family farms where we got stabling, food, and a dry place to sleep. At one freehold I met a family whose paterfamilias told me his ancestor fought Oliver Cromwell... personally! "He kicked his teeth out!" was the boast. The seat of Cunty Meath is Drogheda and a list of families whose forebears deleted teeth from Cromwell's head would be a long one. He must have had a thousand gnashers in his jaws. Being interested in a peaceful night I smiled silently at the tale but realized even then I was hearing one of the fables that give the Irish a convenient ancient scapegoat for current day woes.

GingerBeer said...

Culture and character matter. And "whitney" and "sunsong" are proof.

tcrosse said...

Over at New York Magazine, Andrew Sullivan gets to write that missing column after all. Worth a read.

rhhardin said...

These conditions are heritable, show a high degree of comorbidity, and share a common dysfunction, namely, abnormally high levels of impulsivity.

Impulsivity can be instructed away, genetic tendency or not, so it doesn't matter. It used to be called good character, and they used to teach it.

hstad said...

"Racism is Real" - which "racism" are you talking about? The 'Narrative'[fictional]kind or the everyday kind? Blacks who now live in China and are getting beat up daily are in the 'real kind' of racism cross-hair versus the reverse racism of 'Affirmative Action'.

hstad said...

6/12/20, 1:11 PM
Blogger The Crack Emcee said...
"I’m talking about lack of educational achievement"It's insanity and cruel.6/12/20, 1:17 PM

Another excuse from "The Crack Emcee"? Well, during the Cultural Revolution in China Mao ordered the jailing of teachers, intellectuals, etc., over 60 million where estimated dead. Chinese today still have a healthy view of 'Education'.

I call your comment an excuse.

Pookie Number 2 said...

How can you forbid reading for centuries and then expect everyone to want to hit the books?

You probably can’t - but how, in your view, does this problem get addressed?

Quaestor said...

AI idiocy alert: Nevertheless, David Drake was taught to read and write by his first master, Harvey Blake, who was never arrested or prosecuted for his alleged crime of teaching a black child to read and write.

The man's name was Harvey Drake, not Blake, which was yet another example of Google's inscrutable stupidity at work.

dbp said...

"How can you forbid reading for centuries and then expect everyone to want to hit the books?"

Do people live for centuries? All four of my grandparents were, what would be considered today, functionally illiterate. They didn't have much formal learning, but they saw that the leaders in society were educated people and they wanted that for their kids and so they made them go to school and bring home good marks so their kids could go to college.

I would think that if my ancestors were forbidden to read and write, this would be an incentive to hit the books all the more. The dysfunction which Loury writes about is that fellow blacks tease and demean those who want to become formally educated. They and paternalists, like Sunsong, are part of the problem.

Gahrie said...

Pesky white racists, always saying things that are true!

The most objectionable thing about the modern Left to me is the idea that either truth doesn't matter, or even truth doesn't exist.

Without truth there is no reason. Without reason there is no civilization.

Feelings and emotions lead to barbarism.

exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...

Pookie Number 2 said...
How can you forbid reading for centuries and then expect everyone to want to hit the books?"

How widespread was literacy in say, Sicily or Russia in the 19th century? Many people who came off the boats at Ellis Island were not only illiterate, they didn't speak a word of English. The poor and desperate came here, not the aristocrats and educated middle classes.

It would be helpful if black kids who do want to hit the books would stop being told by other blacks that such behavior is "acting white."

Gahrie said...

How can you forbid reading for centuries and then expect everyone to want to hit the books?.

(I know I'm going to hate myself)

How exactly is the fact that someone who may or may not have even been related to him was prohibited from reading a hundred and fifty years ago supposed to effect the desire or ability of a Black kid in the United States today to read?

Unknown said...

The Left want to hold blacks up as untouchable and beyond criticism. This is what you do with "victims" in the leftist theology. They are like saints. But Amy Wax pointed out that many of the things that whites do to become successful are available to anyone and are emulated by all sorts of immigrants (I know lots of successful legal immigrants): stay in school, then get married and stay married, get a job and work hard, save. I would add: stay out of jail and avoid too much drugs/booze. Doing these things would probably double the average household income in black communities. Of course Amy was excoriated for her trouble. But she was right. No one just hands success to whites (well to a few but not most). Guys I know have worked 2 jobs, done consulting on the side, worked overtime. Drive around a suburban neighborhood and you will see guys taking care of their homes/yard, pushing a stroller, playing ball with the kids, painting their house. You will not see a bunch of guys hanging out on the corner because they are too busy for that.

Drago said...

BTW, is there anything more enjoyable than watching a bunch of Howard's Heroes soy-boy white lefties attack a police squad car and then have a bunch of black cops get out and beat their a**es?

I think not.

https://twitter.com/RealJamesWoods/status/1271306923652997121


Howard said...

Blogger The Crack Emcee said...

"I’m talking about lack of educational achievement"

I'm not going to take seriously a comment that doesn't address how whites warped blacks and education from Day One. How can you forbid reading for centuries and then expect everyone to want to hit the books?

It's insanity and cruel.


Hey Crack. Next time you are born, pick better ancestors. From a fellow Angeleno:


“We are
Born like this
Into this
Into these carefully mad wars
Into the sight of broken factory windows of emptiness
Into bars where people no longer speak to each other
Into fist fights that end as shootings and knifings
Born into this
Into hospitals which are so expensive that it’s cheaper to die
Into lawyers who charge so much it’s cheaper to plead guilty
Into a country where the jails are full and the madhouses closed
Into a place where the masses elevate fools into rich heroes”

― Charles Bukowski

RK said...

How can you forbid reading for centuries and then expect everyone to want to hit the books?

I'm hoping that on some date, July 1, 2078, for example, blacks will finally get over it and decide literacy is better than whining about whitey and will start hitting the books. But until then, whine away.

Howard said...

We are all happy Drago has plenty of riot porn to watch. Good Times.

William said...

If he said it today, it would get him cancelled but Faulkner remarked that having been private property is probably one of the reasons black people had no respect for private property. Whatever the truth of that statement it does seem fair to observe that no group in America, not even the Indians, had a worse introduction to Western Civ than the blacks. I can empathize with their skepticism and distrust of our institutions.....But it's also fair to say that for the most part our institutions really do work and that if you play by the rules, your life doesn't end in the crapper. Also, it's worth noting that although black/white relations are always tense in America, there's nowhere near the kind of ethnic strife that exists in other countries. We've had our share of murders and occasionally even massacres but nothing like what went on in Rwanda or Kenya or Nigeria or in the Balkan states. Black/white relations here are more on the love/hate spectrum than the kind of hate/hate that exist in other countries.

William said...

Cromwell was the author of most of the Irish troubles. After conquering Ireland, he moved the Irish off the arable land. He distributed that land in small parcels to his soldiers. His soldiers, for the most part, didn't want to stay on in Ireland. They sold their parcels to their officers who formed large estates with those holdings. The native Irish were hired to work those estates or worse those parcels were rented to Irish farmers by absentee landlords who returned to live in England. It wasn't as bad as the collectivization process in the Soviet Union, but it was pretty bad and certainly worse than the sharecropper system in the American south. It wasn't just the Famine Years. The Irish were left impoverished and malnourished after Cromwell's conquest. You didn't have to have spectacular bad luck to starve to death. If ever a man deserves lasting hate, it is Cromwell....It was a long time ago, but some wounds never heal. I remember back in the seventies some Germans wanted to buy land and build factories in Ireland, but the Irish, after their previous experience with absentee landlords, didn't allow this to happen.... There was a bank shot after the formation of the EU and Ireland's entry into it. That's when Ireland allowed investment in their country and became the Celtic Tiger. Ireland is no longer a basket case, although they've had their troubles.

Jason said...

Sunsong Presenting the views of an uncle tom doesn’t change anything.

Liberals are constantly projecting their own insane, vile racism, bigotry and prejudice on normal people.

I'm Not Sure said...

My parents used to tell us kids "Life's not fair" and "The world doesn't owe you a living", with the expectation that we'd get off our butts, stop blaming others for our troubles and make something of our lives.

Just sayin'.

FullMoon said...

sunsong said...
My opinion: Presenting the views of an uncle tom doesn’t change anything.


Howard could take lessons...

Anyway, gotta ask the long timers, are Vickie from Pasadena and Sunsong the same person? And who do you think is behind the performance?

sunsong said...

Here's a good example of what I'm talking about. Gen Z is NOT going to tolerate racism:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydG1WAKdMtg

Quaestor said...

Here's a good example of what I'm talking about. Gen Z is NOT going to tolerate racism

Bullshit. Gen Z will be fortunate to be able to feed itself.

Quaestor said...

Cromwell was the author of most of the Irish troubles.

Wow. Ireland was conquered long before Oliver Cromwell lived. It started shortly after the Norman Conquest and was more or less complete by the time of Richard II. English kings and Queens (both Mary and her half-sister Elizabeth) were handing out Irish estates since Edward I, often with the complicity of Irish chieftains such as Hugh Tyrone. Cromwell's involvement there arose from complaints from Protestant plantations in Ulster over attacks by militias armed and financed by the Catholic League, i.e. France, Spain, and the Papal States. It can be best understood as yet another front in the wide-ranged religious warfare known as the Thirty Years War

n.n said...

Gen Z is NOT going to tolerate racism

Diversity, not limited to racism, is a progresive condition.

gilbar said...

If ever a man deserves lasting hate, it is Cromwell..

well, DUH! when, after Centuries of trying, the Briton's Finally had proper, Scottish Kings, and GOD wanted; and WHAT did the English do?
They hired Cromwell; to KILL the King of Briton, and installed a dictatorship
And even after Cromwell was dead (and in HELL); and proper Scottish Kings were returned to the throne of Briton... It only took a few years, for the English to AGAIN remove GOD'S anointed King, and replace him with a FUCKING GERMAN!!!

exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...

Anyway, gotta ask the long timers, are Vickie from Pasadena and Sunsong the same person? And who do you think is behind the performance?

6/12/20, 8:21 PM

Nah. Their writing styles are quite different. The little old lady from Pasadena flies by every so often and drops a sour, uninteresting one-liner ("Trump is a fascist!") like a bird dropping and leaves. She seldom responds to any points made by other commenters.

I thought sunsong was just a clueless naif who thinks Progressive World is unicorns shitting lollipops. However, in this thread, she revealed she's quite a nasty little racist.

gilbar said...

Here's a good example of what trolls are talking about. Gen Z is NOT going to tolerate racism
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydG1WAKdMtg

so, according to PBS, Gen Z consists of (and, yes, i counted)
A Black girl
An Asian girl
A Black guy
A Black girl
A Black guy
A gay guy
A white chick
A Black girl
A Black girl

YEP! that's a representative sample of Gen Z in America
9 kids, 6 of which are female, 6 of which are Black, ONE of which is a (gay) white male

Drago said...

Howard: "We are all happy Drago has plenty of riot porn to watch."

It is a healthy and positive development that Howard has decided to stop lying about the violence and looting committed by Howard's Heroes.

Even the other lefties were starting to look at him and say uh, dude, really?

Quite embarrassing.

wholelottasplainin' said...

Can anyone other than the uber-Victim Crack actually think that the reason blacks don't read books is because their distant ancestors in the South were forbidden to read books?

Does reading books define "acting white"?

Utter inanity.

Put down that pipe, Crack.

wholelottasplainin' said...

Blogger sunsong said...
Here's a good example of what I'm talking about. Gen Z is NOT going to tolerate racism:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydG1WAKdMtg

*********************

We went through this bullshit back in the 60's. The young were going to teach us. "The Greening of America", and all that nonsense.

Didn't happen. Children's Crusades NEVER succeed.

Oh, and it's telling that a time when we're all lectured about having a conversation about race, PBS turned off the comments at YouTube.

AllenS said...

"Do the math: over one-million interracial marriages a year vs ten-thousand acts of interracial violence. Love is winning."

I shall proffer that this is why so many black women have abortions. It is also the reason so many black families consist of only one adult, the black woman. Black men are not marrying black women.

Until black men start marrying black women the fate of black children will never improve.

Rusty said...

"Blogger sunsong said...
My opinion: Presenting the views of an uncle tom doesn’t change anything. Even he agrees that blacks have bad schools! [hence substandard educations] What I’m suggesting to you is that racism is NOT likely to be tolerated in our future. Today’s youths do NOT accept it! [..and that includes education and ALL systemic racism in our country.]
The times have changed. What the cold-blooded murder of George Floyd sparked, what it unleashed, cannot be unleashed. Police brutality will NOT survive either, imo."

See. this is why we can't have an honest discussion on virtualy anything in this country let alone race. One side. lacking any reasoning whatsoever simply assumes that what narrative they are spouting is the revealed wisdom of the day. They can't be reasoned with because they reason like children. Hence Capital Hill.
Thank you for providing todays example, Sunsong.