"... how we can best ensure that police officers are serving the communities they are tasked with policing? But that subtlety is lost in chants of 'Defund the Police.' And Trump, desperate for an issue to latch onto as he watches his poll numbers both nationally and in swing states tumble, will destroy any nuance in the conversation over police funding in order to paint Biden (and Democrats more broadly) as wanting to get rid of the police entirely."
Ha. Yeah. Trump IS the destroyer of nuance.
I'm reading "Is 'Defund the Police' a massive political mistake?" by Chris Cillizza (CNN).
Liberals love to present themselves as the People of Nuance. But if you're going to do slogans and chants — and especially if you're going to do vandalism and looting — you're not doing nuance. And if your knee-jerk reaction for everything you do wrong is to flip it into ORANGE MAN BAD, you are not doing nuance.
I've been following this "nuance" theme since I started this blog in 2004. Remember how John Kerry was fawned over as the candidate of nuance, compared to that vicious dimwit George Bush?
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151 comments:
They do nuage, not nuance.
What they need, strictly, is chaos, so that everything possible gets worse leading up to the election. That seems to be the plan.
They don't care what gets worse, just anything and everything.
The nuance of the mob! Bwahahahaha!
Are the police going to take black woman's complaint when they get an insulting text from a white teacher, like what happened recently in Madison? Or is that going to be out-of-scope for police work.
0bama fluffers
are daily slammers of Trump
EPIC PRESS FAILURE
If the cops are defunded, then the richer neighborhoods will just hire private security to patrol their streets.
Guess which demographic group will be S.O.L then?
Indeed
https://thefederalist.com/2020/06/09/if-you-want-to-know-what-disbanding-the-police-looks-like-look-at-mexico/
This defund the police narrative is really about union busting. The Dems are against the police unions.
The last few weeks we've seen BLM and Anti-Fa rioting, burning of police precincts, and murders of police officers.
We've seen white women forced to kneel before blacks and beg for forgiveness. White police and NG prostrate themselves and beg.
Now we have every large city run by the Democrats planning to defund the police.
Trump's poll numbers are tumbling both nationally and most importantly in the swing States.
Obviously the Dems have found the winning formula against Trump. They need to really push these tactics between now and November. Maybe up the pressure by embracing reparations.
"It's not defund-defund."
"You Keep Using That Word, I Do Not Think It Means What You Think It Means"
professora says - I've been following this "nuance" theme since I started this blog in 2004.
can nuance have such long shelf life? or is it fool me once you can fool me again and again or is nuance = don't take it literally but do take it seriously
The brains at CNN have suddenly realized they are in deep shit.
Hemingway: "How do you go bankrupt? Gradually, then suddenly. "
Nuance is their code word to indicate that they are smarter than you. To me it is evidence that the nuanced thinker is cotton-headed and easily confused. It also can mean that the nuanced thinker is over-complicating the matter in order to deceive.
As I think you pointed out in a post yesterday or the day before, why wouldn't these folks advocate and argue for what they want, rather than resort to ambiguous catch phrases? You would probably win more support from a wider range of people by being clear and direct. Now they are trying to clean up the mess they made, and are shocked no one is believing them.
"I'm reading "Is 'Defund the Police' a massive political mistake?" by Chris Cillizza (CNN)."
Well, progs sometimes miscalculate.
"Liberals love to present themselves as the People of Nuance."
Sure, as along as we all understand that, like anything else, nuance is a tool.
Anyway, they are incorrigible, aren't they, in pushing the defund meme, and then, within days, when Trump exploits the absurdity, blaming him somehow.
But as YoungHegelian has pointed out, one missing "nuance" is that a prime purpose of the exercise is to redirect money toward lefty groups, to lock in prog power at the expense of law enforcement.
Speaking of those tanking poll numbers...after the ousting of Bennett and Dao from the NYT, I really don't put it past the press to fake anything if it serves the purpose of Orange Man Bad.
I agree. How does the party of nuance survive in an era of Twitter and hashtags?
How do you explain that #DefundThePolice really means #TransferPoliceMoneyToRiotOrganizersAsReparations? Which is not quite as catchy, but probably more accurate. Much of the country will be stuck at the thought that their 911 calls will not be answered as quickly.
Nuance essentially means lying out of both sides of their mouths. It means telling the public one thing, while your supporters know that you mean just the opposite.
More nuanced.
Fuck that. I follow their rules. Understand them literally. 5 years of interpreting President Trump literally.
They are so freaking desperate, they are spinning their lies into a tornado that is going to wipe out the Democrat party. What do they stand for anymore??? All they do is call whites RACISTS and Privileged, and they pander to minorities in embarrassing ways. Funny, how their little African Kente wearing Photo Op was staged, and then the old hags couldn't even get up, they needed help....just like their party.
I remember John Kerry and his sophistication. I also remember him saying, "I can't believe I'm losing to this a**hole".
I'm beginning to understand why the left is against freedom of speech. The characteristic of free speech is that people show themselves to be blithering idiots. Can't have that.
All I can say is that when you rip away an important part of a societal contract, in this case the police, the replacement is much worse. Please look at Argentina, Peru and Chile for examples.
Nah Cilizza just realizes the BLM dopes stuck his side with a stupid unworkable slogan.
Ha ha.
Applying the reporting on Trump standard:
CNN asserted, without evidence, that Trump's support was tumbling.
Once upon a time, a long time ago, I had a smidgen of respect for Chris Cilizza.
But here he writes an articles quoting CNN's own poll which is inconsistent with other polls, cites the chant of "Defund the Police" as removing all nuance then blames trump for removing nuance....
Wtf man. At what point do you realize your arguments have truly just become "Orange man bad."
Well, Althouse, yesterday you blogged about Minneapolis City Council president Lisa Bender claiming that calling police in response to a home intrusion is just a matter of “privilege.” That doesn’t strike me as being particularly nuanced. Sounds as though if you don’t have a gun for home defense, you’d better buy one.
Democrats love Republican presidents, as long as they are ex-presidents.
Same goes for failed Republican candidates. Romney was a grandma murdering, dog abusing, bullying Nazi monster when he ran against Obama.
Now that he is bashing Trump? Democrats LOVE him for his helping with Orange Man Bad.
It’s motte and bailey. (Google if you don’t know the Scott Alexander post on this). When addressing the still sane “defund” doesn’t mean what it says, but the committed chant it.
"More community involvement" sounds good.
But will unarmed mental health professionals, untrained in handling the violently combative actually go out to handle people who are off their meds and behaving in threatening ways? Dealing with the threatening and/ or violently combative mentally-ill is the issue since everyone else is already handled without the police. And how will the mental health police differ from the regular police in their tactics? Will they use tasers and restraints? How many will go together? How will they call for backup? How will they transport them? Where will they take them? And won't we shortly see lawsuits from one side claiming that the city did not train and equip them properly and from the other side saying that untrained community police injured or allowed the mentally ill or family members and by-standers to be injured. Won't there be overuse of tasers. How will untrained people handle being pressed upon by crowds shouting abuse. Moreover, there are continual scandals about how the mentally-ill, especially juveniles, are treated within institutions when they become violent.
Green Oaks worker accused of using choke hold on juvenile Jun 13, 2019
Texas youth prison guards allegedly choked teen unconsciousapnews.com › Texas-youth-prison-guards-allegedly-choked-teen-unconscious
Feb 3, 2018 - AUSTIN, Texas (AP)
Lincoln Hills
"A 2017 federal class action suit filed by the American Civil Liberties Union and Juvenile Law Center had alleged that, “The State routinely subjects these youth to unlawful solitary confinement, mechanical restraints and pepper spraying. Prior to state and federal raids on the facility at the end of 2015, staff also regularly physically abused youth in the facility. Currently, Wisconsin’s juvenile corrections officials lock up approximately 15% to 20% percent or more of the facilities’ young residents in solitary confinement cells for 22 or 23 hours per day.”
Start by losing the assumption that the underlying cause is racism - much more likely that the problem is structurally with the police forces and the laws.
Modify the union contracts so it's not as hard to get rid of the bad apples. If the unions squawk, start decreasing the police budget.
Identify the specific laws/actions that cause a disproportionate amount of the incidents (those middle-of-the-night raids comes to mind) and fix those processes.
Get rid of stupid laws - i.e. deregulate to the maximum extent possible
To paraphrase a great American humorist, “I don't like Trump supporters, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like Trump supporters, denigrate means 'put down'”.
Except Cillizza < Bob Newhart.
I bag on what you say a lot, Professor
So here I'd just like to say "well said", because you hit the response I would have given. :-)
I saw a TV ad this morning showing rioters and saying "Trump has failed America." I think a lot of people are going to react to this ad by thinking "We need Trump more than ever." In short, to me at least, this ad was clueless.
Thank God we have the media to help us stupid people understand the REAL meaning of "Defund the Police". So far I have it progressivesplained in about a dozen different ways. Each is targeted to entice me to believe that it does actually mean the actual words.
There is a level of definition that correlates to the level of reduced police evil that makes you feel OK with the idea. It ranges from "re-direct funds to help people in order to prevent crime instead of buying tanks and other military gear", to "get rid of police".
If you don't like the Meme, then it is only because you are mis-interpreting it. It is you who are wrong. Stop it! Don't be fooled by Trump and his racist supporters!
700 police officers injured in the riots, I mean, protests.
You think once the Police are decimated, it will get better or worse for ordinary citizens?
Nuance, for the left, is committing the crime, then pointing at the other guy and shouting "he did it!"
&
Liberals love to present themselves as the People of Nuance. But if you're going to do slogans and chants — and especially if you're going to do vandalism and looting — you're not doing nuance. And if your knee-jerk reaction for everything you do wrong is to flip it into ORANGE MAN BAD, you are not doing nuance." - Ann Althouse
A+
We're the good guys, but that subtlety is lost on the enemy who is desperate for victory as they watch our army charge their lines. They will use their superior tactics, an overwhelming terrain advantage and superior numbers against us.
Is This Battle We're Already Engaged In A Massive Mistake?
And Trump, desperate for an issue
It's funny how only the other side gets desperate; the Good Guys never do.
If they are going to "defund" the police departments...aka...take away the money....Do we get a tax refund for the various things/bonds/measures that have been voted in by the public to FUND those things?
The public voted for the funding for police and for jails. If you aren't going to use them and won't use the jails, instead just letting everyone go free then We want a refund!!
Where's my money!!!!
In the end, however, Bush was a vicious dimwit.
Then consider sending unarmed, untrained neo-police to handle domestic disputes. It's the law that if violence has been used by one domestic partner, the other must be arrested. Will the neo-police make the arrest? Will there be equal numbers of men and women? Will unarmed, gentle women counsellors be sent to handle drunken wife-beaters at the height of their rage?
Or consider various therapeutic counsellors. It's no part of their training to go into homes, to treat the unwilling and indifferent. They sit in their offices and wait for those who agree to come and that isn't going to change.
In short, sending untrained, unarmed people into situations characterized by danger and potential violence is a non-starter, yet those are the situations which the police now handle. So what are we talking about?
What do we want?
To best ensure that police officers are serving the communities they are tasked with policing!
When do we want it?
Now!
What do we want?
To best ensure that police officers are serving the communities they are tasked with policing!
When do we want it?
Now!
In politics, Nuance means superficial, simple and emotional. Trump is the King Kong of political nuance making.
It does not help that another slogan of the protests and riots was ACAB. "All Cops Are Bastards" is not exactly nuanced either. And it also does not help that we have protesters on camera insisting that the police be abolished.
When they tell you what they believe, believe them.
Don’t they mean “defang” the police? But, the intersectionalism is insane. In order to defang the police, we’d need to end qualified immunity AND neuter police unions. We’d also need to end the drug war.
Chris Cillizza--not so good at nuance. But he's really good at nonsense.
I'm waiting for the movement to defund government.
The nuance argument was one of the two most memorable things about Kerry. The other was how he said "nucular"
For four years I heard and read nonstop mockery of the way Bush said "nucular." Many of my friends insisted only an idiot would ever pronounce the word that way. Then Kerry became a major candidate and it was like a switch flipped.
Once again some White man presuming to tell Black folks what they want or mean when Black people say something.
And I agree that Trump is a destroyer of nuance, but in multiple ways. The press regularly takes his statements out of context and even splices completely unrelated statements together in order to make him look bad. Though I suppose that could be considered "nuance" in a completely dishonest and corrupt way.
Refuge in nuance is typically a failure to communicate.
if you're going to do slogans and chants — and especially if you're going to do vandalism and looting — you're not doing nuance. And if your knee-jerk reaction for everything you do wrong is to flip it into ORANGE MAN BAD, you are not doing nuance.
This should be obvious, but for some reason it evidently isn't. Or at least people behave as if it isn't.
Since we were toddlers we've all known that antisocial behavior gets attention. The squeeky wheel gets the grease. But the problem is it may not achieve the actual result desired. Throwing a tantrum in a toy store doesn't always get you the toy. Sometimes it just gets you spanked. Smarter children eventually figure out that there's more effective,less painful ways to get what they want and adjust their tactics.
Give that, it's amazing to me that many adults agitating for change don't see how all this mass destruction undermines their very efforts. Why haven't more protesters and people in the media strongly and clearly denounced the looting and destruction in no uncertain terms? Why are they constantly making excuses? Why don't the protesters themselves ferret out the bad actors? Why can't they see the evil in their midst?
Democrats feverishly embrace an utterly stupid and extreme idea. Their noisy nitwit base applauds. It takes a few days to sink in but they gradually realize it's not very popular outside their noisy nitwit base. So they start denying they meant what they said and start with the hedging.
Nuance!
Yep - It's Trump's fault BLM made their slogan "Defund the Police".
Why should we believe Cillizza's whitesplaining over BLM?
When someone identifies a goal you disagree with should you rationalize their goal into something less alarming? Or is this their allies' tactic, an effort to reduce opposition thus making the goal more likely?
It seems like we learned this lesson already:
Elie Wiesel, holocaust survivor, once said, “When someone says they want to kill you, believe them.”
But that subtlety is lost in chants of 'Defund the Police.' And Trump...will destroy any nuance
So "Defund the police" is a Trump chant?
Does Cillizza read his own writing? Does CNN still employ editors?
More wish casting from the left. I keep getting emails from corporations that I'm a customer of informing me that they are donating money to BLM. BLM is, at best, a radical political group. At worst, they are terrorists. I see people kneeling to blacks and washing their feet. People are rioting and looting and the authorities are talking about defunding or even eliminating the police. Even my hard core democrat friends are starting to look sheepish and suddenly don't want to talk politics with me any longer.
Orange man bad is just a mantra that must be stated to ensure that you are still on he side of right think.
It is going to be fun to see how well respected Trump will be during the next republican adminstration that comes down the pike, just as W is no longer the new Hitler that he once was.
And yet your leaning is toward the people who pretend at nuance. (READ: Lie to voters about their true intentions.)
How odd.
The nuance is that there are some people, left and right that want to reform aspects of policing. I am of the right and I want to see some reform (end qualified immunity, reverse the militarization of police, end the stupid "war on drugs", and end no-knock raids to start).
But the far left is not nuanced. They really do want to end police and prisons. Which is, at the risk of not being nuanced, bat shit crazy.
The far-left got out over their skis, but don't for one second think the far left doesn't want to get rid of the police.
Good god, they tell us this. Progressivism always goes further and further. Always. They are bat shit crazy.
why leftists are assholes part 512.2
tweet:
Me: "If you're going over to Starbucks, you can't wear the Hawaiian shirt. Its a protest zone."
Husband: "Why?"
"Because its a symbol of white supremacy now."
"But I'm not white. I'm *Hawaiian.*"
"I don't make the rules."
"Who does?"
"The Internet."
Wasn't the shooting in Georgia of Ahmaud Arbery a case of community policing?
Do I remember? Yes.
Narr
And many another
I was on the Civilian Review Board for a small college town for almost a decade and learned a lot about how the police work. We had about 90 hours of classroom training and did about 24 hours of ride-along. I did some extra ride-along because it was fun in a Alice-In-Wonderland way.
I have a *lot* or criticisms about how police forces work, about individual police behavior that seems very common across geographies, and etc.
However, leaving the truly bad/evil guys out, and you still see behavior that is puzzling or seemingly counter-productive. But for individuals in the environment there are very good reasons why individuals behave the way they do.
For example, imagine if EVERY SINGLE PERSON you spoke to all day long lied to you reflexively. White yoga mom's in a big Volvo. Black dudes on Harleys. Shop-owners. Everyone lies to cops until cops don't believe anyone.
Ever notice how jumpy cops are about being touched on duty? I have never met a cop who wasn't hurt on the job when they weren't expecting it.
Notice how fast cops go to higher and higher levels of violence? They're taught that IN EVERY POLICE FORCE to protect themselves. They also believe it teaches most repeat criminals to stop escalating fights - which protects everyone.
I know that a lot of the well-meaning people, who don't understand the constraints, think there are easy solutions. You might ask yourself if this is a parallel problem to how "more gun laws" don't do anything about gun crime.
-XC
Statism is "nuanced" until the IRS or ATF enforcers come a-knocking on your door.
Just to clarify, I think you mean
“Ha. Yeah. Trump IS the destroyer of nuance.”
to be
“Ha. Yeah. TRUMP is the destroyer of nuance.“
But I could be wrong. Back in the ‘60’s grammar handbooks didn’t teach the proper usage of all caps.
Many of the issues with police misconduct would be solved by abolishing Police collective bargaining agreements and outlawing versions of Blue Flus.
Same with the education system btw.
It would also, over time, help balance the books on pension funds.
It's revealing that the media is willing to work so hard to try to save the Democrats from a disastrous political position. He can't even argue that Trump's wrong -- just that he's "not necessarily" right. Further, he can't point to any actual Democrats that have raised any "nuanced" position; that's just his forgiving political spin as he speculates without evidence that that must be what most of the protestors really want. He knows very well that this is a gigantic unforced error.
The two-part notion that George Floyd was a street perp who probably deserved to be intervened upon by the cops, but he did not deserve to be intervened upon in the way these particular cops carried it out, is a nuance I see many people unable to grok nowadays.
And Trump, desperate for an issue to latch onto as he watches his poll numbers both nationally and in swing states tumble
But are Trump’s poll numbers tumbling? That fact that CNN says so doesn’t make it true, does it?
What poll numbers is he looking at? Or is he just blabbing about the fantasy of how this is all supposed to work? More oh please oh please oh please...
Trump still not worse than moving to Canada 🇨🇦. If it doesn't work out maybe one or two of em will actually move this time.
The Green New Deal is approved by every single Democratic candidate for president back when there were a dozen or so. Specifics from the originator of the GND are brought up. The general public finds the details to be madness. Suddenly the GND is simply aspirational and the crazy parts are denied.
Defund and end PDs is loudly cried throughout the land by leftists. Ordinary people look out their windows and ponder WTF are these people thinking? Polling must be horrible. Because defund means something other than the words plain meaning.
Someone read the polls before the Biden campaign (second tier) spokesperson said I'm agin it.
To paraphrase Lou Grant, "I hate nuance."
I'll have to look up a more modern/woke dictionary. Does nuance now mean, "Don't believe your lying ears"?
Their argument, then, is not necessarily that we don't need police officers. It's... we don't WANT police officers
similarly....
"Their argument, then, is not necessarily that we don't need armed forces.
It's... we don't WANT armed forces
Defund the police - so far all the ideas I heard are old and already in use.
After Eleanor Bumpers in the 1980's NYC and the NYPD revamped how emotionally disturbed people(edp) are responded to. In NYC those whose mental illness requires heavy medication are already visited by social workers and psychologists.The problem is when they stop taking their medication and the visiting therapist is unable to convince them to go to the hospital voluntarily - They call the police.The reality is there is no quick easy way to get someone who is refusing to comply, restrained and ready for transport to a treatment facility and/or jail.Both Eric Garner and George Floyd were very large men. I have seen two 6' fit police call for backup because they could not get a 5' petite woman handcuffed. Yeah - they could have easily beat her up, but they were trying not to hurt her.Not easy to do.Hot sweaty arms (and they are always hot and sweaty) are slick, you can not get a firm grip. All those cute maneuvers they use on television are not so easy to do, or actually work in real life. Who knows, maybe they will invent a net gun, shoot it at the individual and they are netted like in cartoons.Until then we are going to have cops wrestling people and that may not always end well - for either party. Because, guess what, plenty of times it's the cops that lose the fight.
"... how we can best ensure that police officers are serving the communities they are tasked with policing?"
Which community was George Floyd a member of?
Physically living in Minneapolis?
The borderless "Black" community?
The community of drug addicts?
The community of felons?
The community of tobacco smokers?
Today's racists, like yesterday's racists, believe that only your race matters. They want to jam George Floyd into the same community as blacks who are law-abiding and hard working.
They want to jam me into the same community as neo-nazis, kkk types, and bourgeois whites.
You will have to forgive Chris Cillizza, English must be his second language.
So the peaceful protestors get to do nuance. OK. The rioters, no nuance for you!
Seriously though, it is very important now to be clear as to what reforms should be made, don’t do do nuance, the righties won’t get it and will twist it into something that doesn’t even resemble what is intended, as is already being seen. Now is the time to be exceedingly clear.
I was at Ferguson, Missouri, in August of 2014. I saw the aftermath of the death of Michael Brown. I stood with others next to the convenience store that had been burned. I saw the New Black Panthers roll in and direct traffic. I saw members of the Revolutionary Communist Party with their flags and regalia in the bed of a parked truck. I saw members of the ACLU witness team with their hard hats and emblazoned shirts. I saw the state police move in with tracked armored vehicles and machine guns pointed at the crowds. I saw the state police arresting people without warning - firing tear gas overhead. I listened as Governor Jay Nixon (D. Mo) talked about martial law and curfews in radio interviews. Then later, Nixon and the Democrat administration removed the armed police because of criticism. They left Ferguson completely un-policed. Looting broke out, shootings broke out, riots broke out. Meanwhile a slaphappy media horde began to develop the Ferguson narrative including "Hands Up Don't Shoot!"
Several grand juries later, both state and Federal (Eric Holder was the AG),it turns out that the "unarmed Michael Brown, a gentle giant" actually attempted to kill the police officer. He never said "Hands Up - Don't Shoot". The police officer, whose life was ruined by the events in Ferguson, was exonerated....not charged with wrongdoiing or police brutality.
But, the narrative developed by the Media and claimed by Black Lives matter has not abated.
I don't believe that false narratives can prevail. But, they are demanded by Democrat partisans. The story about George Floyd will elevate him to sainthood. They'll name airports and avenues and buildings after him. They'll blame the Republican racists and forget liberal Minneapolis'a mayor just like they've forgotten Jay Nixon and the Democrat administration in Missouri. But the people of Missouri haven't forgotten. Aside from the Auditor there are no longer Democrat statewide office holders. Two term Democrat US Senator Claire McCaskill was defeated by Republican Josh Hawley. And Trump is favored in Missouri this Fall. Ferguson was not the only factor in Missouri, but it sealed the deal.
Geoff Matthews said...
Wasn't the shooting in Georgia of Ahmaud Arbery a case of community policing?
6/9/20, 9:59 AM
It's exactly what is going to start happening more and more!!
This "nuance" represents the split between the Ivory Tower Liberal elite, and inner city African Americans. The inner city African-American Americans are serious. I believe the woke Mayor Jenny Durkin has been asked to resign by the members of the City Council. The pandering photo op by Washington DC Dems yesterday is going to cure it. Kamala Harris wouldn't answer the question directly on The View.
From the Seattle Times: “Three council members — Kshama Sawant, Teresa Mosqueda and Tammy Morales — now are asking Durkan to resign or consider resigning as Seattle grapples with protests sparked by the killing of George Floyd in Minneapolis.”
Soon the flames of Defund the Police will rise higher, when the trials of the Minneapolis Police Officers start. This is all about making sure Trump doesn’t shave off a percentage of African-American votes that would bury Democrats. They did it to themselves.
Well it’s Cillizza. He’s a liberal hack, not a journalist. So not surprised he’s trying to sling this as something it’s not.
“Defund the Police”. WTF ? Who do you call if something bad happens ? “well it doesn’t really mean that, it’s more nuanced, you just don’t get it. Ahh right I’m the one that doesn’t get it.
“Black Lives Matter” Sure, all lives matter, even aborted black babies. “Omg you fuckin racist, you should lose your job. How can you say something as horrible as “all lives matter” and how dare you bring up abortion. You just don’t get it. Riiiiight.
“Colin K and other NFL players kneel for the national anthem”. WTF? Don’t disrespect the flag like that! “OMG you just don’t get it we’re not disrespecting the flag or the country but blah blah blah reasons!
Good Lord!
It's fun being lectured on nuance by people who claim any position other than their own is white supremacy - even if that position is caring about dead black people other than Floyd.
They never seem to get around to the actual nuanced explanations. Just rest assured that there’s some valuable nuance going on somewhere important. -willie
Defund the police? Fuck, all I hear is "lock and load". This is the advent of civil war.
In order to defang the police, we’d need to end qualified immunity AND neuter police unions. We’d also need to end the drug war.
That works for me!
Cilizza's essay is what it looks like when someone realizes they are riding a tiger.
If you have any doubt about what is really meant by "defund the police", I invite you to go watch that video of Jacob Frey at the BLM rally from this past weekend. You cannot misunderstand what "defund the police" means to the protestors themselves if you have watched it.
In times of riot, defund the police, and arrest officers that are assaulting looters.
Mass protests, OK. 11 people in church, against the lockdown order.
I wish I could find the quote, from Mudderidge I think, that speaks to how it is now impossible to do satire, since no matter how insane an idea you present, somebody will promptly act it out in reality.
JAORE nails it. What Cillizza etal. are doing is writing, "Believe us, not your lying ears." It is a common tactic of the Left, as evidenced by pretty much every single Leftist troll posting here.
Isn’t “defund the police” an admission that the blue governance of your city has failed?
What's with the foot draggers in Minneapolis? They have the votes, and it’s a CRISIS!!, so defund the police *today*. Action this day!
Dave Begley said...
This defund the police narrative is really about union busting. The Dems are against the police unions.
Not true. In fact Dem support for police unions has been the major obstacle to law enforcement reform for decades. Defunding police is about activists wanting that funding for themselves.
People who have demonized businesses their entire lives aren't about to get productive jobs making cars or networking computers. But there are only so many jobs in academia and media and industry doesn't have a need for people whose only skill is calling everyone else racist. So what can they do? The scam is to set up non-profits to deliver "sensitivity training" and other racial / political events. Then their allies in government re-direct funding to these groups instead of legitimate government functions. When people notice the legitimate functions aren't being done the left's solution is to raise taxes to fund them - never to return funding from the failed NGO network. The next step will be for the NGO network will blackmail businesses into paying for these "services" similar to Jessie Jackson's Rainbow-PUSH scam. In fact I'd bet just about anything this is happening all over America this minute.
Inga: "So the peaceful protestors get to do nuance. OK. The rioters, no nuance for you!"
LOLOLOL
Democrat DA's in every democrat run city/war zone have mass released democrat rioters and looters.
Without exception.
Meanwhile, those same democrat governors and democrat attorney generals and democrat mayors and democrat district attorneys continue to cite, fine, arrest, harass barbers who are simply cutting hair and Christian and Orthodox Jewish congregations/funerals/gatherings, up to having armed police kick mothers and children out of synogogue playgrounds.
Liberals love to present themselves as the People of Nuance.
I'm beginning to think that "People of Nuance" is newspeak for "dumpster full of cloth-eared nincompoops."
A list of recent nuanced projects by the Left:
>Steele dossier (now that was some stunning fiction, complete with whores urinating on the President.)
>Russia Collusion case (featuring nuanced unmaskings of US citizens, arranged leaks to political players and media lapdogs, out of control prosecutors getting away scot free, love affairs between co-conspirators, and a Warm Body to oversee it all. (Mueller). Note: many of these folks are now regaling us with their nuanced view of things over at MSNBC and CNN.)
>Impeachment. That was pretty nuanced. Fictional, yes. But definitely nuanced. So nuanced no one actually knew that there was no crime committed.
>Covid defense. This is also known in more nuanced circles as "destroying the greatest economy in history so the architect of that economy does not get elected. Instead, Stacy Abrams does. Much to the chagrin of Gretchen Whitmer, who is so nuanced that she arrests barbers for cutting hair, while she parades shoulder to shoulder with protestors.
>BLM/George Floyd. If all else fails, beat the entire country over the head and require all white people to kneel down before you. Now that's nuanced.
These have never been nuanced people, but yes, Ann, you are correct. They do see themselves as nuanced. Just don't use the wrong pronoun when addressing them. They're so nuanced their gender might change at any moment.
And, Rick above is also correct- this is Cillizza doing "Whitesplaining."
Again, I point any doubters to the Jacob Frey video I mentioned above- you watch that, you know Cillizza is lying through his teeth.
Jim in St Louis said... If the cops are defunded, then the richer neighborhoods will just hire private security to patrol their streets.
The Leftist whack jobs are not as stupid as it seems. Guess who will be policing the poorer minority neighborhoods with taxpayer funded equipment.
The street gangs, BLM and various urban officials will work together as they have been in Chicago. This was the dream that the Black Panther Party had in the 60's and it didn't last. It will last this time.
Not only is there going to be a lot of "Blue Flu" but I would expect a lot of retirements and just plain old "screw this, gotta be a better kind of job".
Lots of KMAG YOYO* (kiss my ass goodbye you're on you're own)
And recruiting new police officers? Yeah. Good luck with that...
How many days until door locks and doorbell cameras are racist too?
Ever notice how jumpy cops are about being touched on duty? I have never met a cop who wasn't hurt on the job when they weren't expecting it.
My son's closest friend, until he moved to a suburb of Atlanta, was a cop who was shot twice on duty, He quit and became a sales manager for a food product. He is now national sales manager. Does a lot travel but make ten times the salary. He sold his house in CA and bought a big place on a golf course in GA for cash.
Gun collector.
I remember how hard the press worked to explain what the "open up" protesters wanted. They managed to distill their desires into "they wanted to go to Applebees".
I also remember how hard the media worked to explain the ins and outs of "repeal Obamacare".
So thanks for riding shotgun for BLM, media. What would they do without you "explaining" what they want?
Take these people seriously. When they say defund the police they aren't saying disband the police. Rather they want to turn the police into an Army of tax farmers. Like armies foraging. They expect the police to ticket and fine the middle class and the rich for every possible violation of any misdemeanor to fund themselves.
Now the Democrats are pushing legislation to make it easier to sue the police. Why stop there? Extend that legislation to include Mayors, City Councilmen and DA's. They are in charge of supervising the police. Better still, eliminate qualified immunity for all officials at the state and local levels (except for governors and state cabinet officers) and same for the federal government.
zipity said...
And recruiting new police officers? Yeah. Good luck with that...
There will be plenty of people applying for those jobs, they just won't be interested in catching criminals.
Inga,
You are deluding yourself if you think that the Democrats, as currently led, aren't trying to completely destroy the United States.
If you don't let Antifa and angry BLM Antifa loot your store, you're racist.
Ya can't "nuance" STUPID.
Inga “ Now is the time to be exceedingly clear”
Yes indeed.
Don’t say defund unless you mean defund. If you do you are a charlatan.
Don’t say social distancing is vital if you mean it’s really okay to have huge protests demanding we defund police. If you do you are a charlatan.
You are a charlatan.
The party of Inga is a pack of lies.
Inga blames "rightists" reaction.
madAsHell said...Defund the police? Fuck, all I hear is "lock and load".
I do believe that if this madness continues we are looking at a new civil war... not between the States this time, though.
As to nuance...it is very hard to grasp for some people who are ignorant of facts. Or who think the solution to a problem is simple instead of complex and nuanced. Like not understanding the nuance between a Mossberg 500 pump action 12 gauge shotgun and a Browning A5 semi auto 12 gauge "hunting" gun. Both shotguns, but different. Nuance is everything ;-D
Howard, you and your left friends constantly try to change the definition and meaning of words to fit into your actions or worldview. Words, however, do have meaning. Your 'political definition' of nuance is bullshit. No nuance. Just bullshit.
Derek Kite said...
I'm beginning to understand why the left is against freedom of speech. The characteristic of free speech is that people show themselves to be blithering idiots. Can't have that.
-----------=================
you have it wrong Sir
the Emperor has already shown himself to be idiot.
Emperor is against free speech so that child cannot speak and point his idiocy
>>You are deluding yourself if you think that the Democrats, as currently led, aren't trying to completely destroy the United States.
Destroy? I believe the the left's preferred phrasing is "fundamentally transform".
But don't question their patriotism.
Althouse observed: Liberals love to present themselves as the People of Nuance. But if you're going to do slogans and chants — and especially if you're going to do vandalism and looting — you're not doing nuance.}}}}
You left out "murder." If you're going to do vandalism and looting and murder, you're not doing nuance. Riot-murdered people are so tacky and lacking in nuance.
why is everyone assuming that after police are defunded whoever replaces and comes after will be unarmed?
Dear Looters:
If you hear of a business owner saying that anyone who tries to loot her business will be gutshot and left to die slowly, then please, please believe that she doesn’t mean it literally, and is just being nuanced.
“Inga “ Now is the time to be exceedingly clear”
Yes indeed.
Don’t say defund unless you mean defund. If you do you are a charlatan.
Don’t say social distancing is vital if you mean it’s really okay to have huge protests demanding we defund police. If you do you are a charlatan.
You are a charlatan.”
Are you trying to regain some street cred among the commenters here, that you lost over your (our) stance on Covid and social distancing? I agreed with you there. Social distancing is important, but there are things MORE important. Getting a haircut or a pedicure isn’t important. Protesting the continued execution of black people at the hands of police IS important. Plus most of the protestors were wearing masks. Your problem is that you see are an absolutist. In real life that never works. I haven’t said “ Defund the police”, as a matter of fact I said that defunding the police was bad idea and I was not in favor of it.
You Ken, need to stop being such a damn Karen. Are you still holed up in your house? To think I stuck up for you.
That's just the tactics of the left. Propose something outrageous because you never know when people aren't paying attention and you might be able to slide it by them before they figure it out (re: Affordable Care Act). When signs of adversarial objection appear, have a second proposal put forth as a 'clarification' that is less outrageous to see if that will slide by. And so forth with the third, fourth, etc. Always appearing conciliatory. See what we did there? We're negotiating and you don't even know it.
Seems to me that crowd in Minneapolis was quite clearly rejecting Frey's unwillingness to jump this high.
"We don't want no mo police, is that clear?”
But they do want to *defund* the police, as they're listing a number of other programs directed at black communities for which this money will be used.
Seriously though, it is very important now to be clear as to what reforms should be made, don’t do do nuance, the righties won’t get it and will twist it into something that doesn’t even resemble what is intended, as is already being seen. Now is the time to be exceedingly clear.
Well we're being told "defund" doesn't mean defund and "police" doesn't mean police.
How about "the" does it still mean the?
If defund the police gets Trump out of the White House, we mean defund the police.
Otherwise we don't.
This message brought to you by the party of "it depends what the definition of "is" is.."
Ha. Yeah. Trump IS the destroyer of nuance.
Trump is not going to let the Republicans hide behind their "Democrat Lite" policies. He's not going to let the media hide behind fake news. And he's not going to let the Democrats hid behind "nuance".
If you told me his Inauguration would have the left marching through DC in pussy hats and in 2020 they'd be burning and looting their cities with the demand to "defund the police", I'd say that sounds like one hell of a successful first term.
I expect a Chernobyl-like meltdown of the fake nuance peddlers during his second term.
Their argument is vague and undefined. More of the blowjob is not a sexual act thing. Situational ethics being the crux of the movement.
"Nuance" Lolz. "You just failed to understand me, simpleton - Of course I didn't mean what I said!"
The rioters, no nuance for you!
Yeah because nothing says nuance like looting, burning buildings, and killing people.
Temujin: thank you for highlighting my poorly worded post that was too abbreviated for you to understand. When any politician uses the word nuance, it actually means the opposite. That is a very common occurrence in politics sales and other human endeavors that Require persuasion of the masses. Democrats use political "nuance" all the time too help stifle debate and to delegitimize any opposing voices. That really pisses me off. it has sort of the same effect as civility b*******.
Trump of course is the political nuance master. Just look how you reflexively took my post. you people are so hypersensitive because of all the nuance that Trump has shoved down your throats. That's why it's so easy for you to throw people like general mattis under the bus because he contradicts the nuance of dear leader.
after Trump is defeated the Democrats really need to clean house starting with Nancy Pelosi and all the other nuance whores.
Aggie wrote: 'That's just the tactics of the left. Propose something outrageous because you never know when people aren't paying attention and you might be able to slide it by them before they figure it out (re: Affordable Care Act). When signs of adversarial objection appear, have a second proposal put forth as a 'clarification' that is less outrageous to see if that will slide by. And so forth with the third, fourth, etc. Always appearing conciliatory. See what we did there? We're negotiating and you don't even know it."
isn't that akin to the Motte and Bailey argument, an increasing favorite fallacy among State-cultists?
always gaslighting,
https://theconservativetreehouse.files.wordpress.com/2020/06/martin-gugino-1.jpg
Nuance means never having to admit you're wrong.
Kerry was nuanced enough to tell the Iranians, recently, to hang on until Biden is elected, and then to proceed with their nuclear weapons program without fear of retaliation. I think Kerry's strategery is misunderestimated in its vileness.
Social distancing is important, but there are things MORE important. Getting a haircut or a pedicure isn’t important. Protesting the continued execution of black people at the hands of police IS important.
Never go full Inga. People will think you are crazy. And they will be correct (notice I didn't say "right."
Ask Inga how many unarmed blacks were shot by police last year. No clue.
"I've been following this "nuance" theme"
We need a nuance bullshit tag, by strict analogy with civility bullshit. Used by the same people, in the same selective way.
Inga: "I agreed with you there. Social distancing is important, but there are things MORE important."
LOLOLOLOLOL
The latest greatest lefty lie has been fully exposed along with all the others.
Meanwhile, Inga's heroic De Blasio is having armed police officers kick Orthodox Jewish mothers and their children out of parks in NYC....again. This has become a daily occurrence. Mass mob protest/attacks/looting/burning/murdering? Totally cool.
https://twitter.com/JFNYC1/status/1270148347412832259
Christian Churches and Synagogues meeting? Unacceptable to the lefties.
Moms in parks playing with children? Unacceptable to the lefties.
If you are wondering if the mosques are under any such orders or constraints, well. You already know the answer to that, don't you?
The liberals are champions of "Nuance" because it allows them to engage in double-talk, obfuscate, and assure moderates/average people that they're not extreme, when they are.
Being clear and simple causes Leftists and Liberals Problems.
I always assumed nuance was just a French word for bullshit. It turns out it's from Latin for cloud, nubes, and later from French for shade, nuer. So I was wrong, but lots of bullshit can been hidden by clouds and in the shade.
Actual nuance would be noticing that going after "bad cops" results in more dead black people, as demonstrated by the homicide rates in Baltimore before-and-after the charges in the Freddie Gray case.
"Defund the Police" is just a simple slogan. In order to get the most people behind you, you have to abandon all nuance. The most effective slogan is the dumbest possible version of your opinion. Everybody does this - Black Lives Matter to Build the Wall. This is why these arguments have no end, because we're arguing about the frame of the argument.
Link
zipity said...
Not only is there going to be a lot of "Blue Flu" but I would expect a lot of retirements and just plain old "screw this, gotta be a better kind of job".
If I were a good cop in NYC, I'd be applying for jobs in red states. Keep doing the job I was trained to do but in a place where people actually appreciate it.
Inga: "I agreed with you there. Social distancing is important, but there are things MORE important."
Like carrying a fucking sign with a trite cliche on it to show the world how Good you are? That doesn't help one single black person get a job, escape black on black crime in the inner city.
If you actually cared you'd be helping the black business owners in the inner city clean up their neighborhoods.
That doesn't matter to you though, because smug self-congratulations matter more to you than anything. You don't give two shits about anybody but you and your kids.
It's also the height of dishonesty to pretend the lockdown protests were just about people wanting to get haircuts and go to bars. Those people wanted to GIVE haircuts and open their businesses because they wanted to put food on the table.
Smug, dumb sanctimonious Waukesha witch doesn't care about those people.
"Defund the Police" really? I lived in Mexico for 1 year while doing business. Could not move around without bodyguards, mandated by my Company, cause the cops where absent or corrupted. But I was always in fear that someone bribed my personal guards for even higher pay for kidnapping ransoms. Everyone who lives in Mexico and spends some time there knows what 'Autodefensas' means. "...these groups are a mixed bag at best—and at worst they’re not much better than the corrupt local police and cartel gunmen they replaced..."
This article reminded me of my experience.
https://thefederalist.com/tag/black-lives-matter-movement/
Ron Winkelheimer "Even my hard core democrat friends are starting to look sheepish and suddenly don't want to talk politics with me any longer."
Same. My favorite debating partners in the bay area are now all awol. FB feeds went from enthusiastic riot boostering last week to today's embarassed "Thats not what I meant..." "lets all get along now" Now they are tortuously parsing what "Defund the Police" means.
I ask them If "Defund the Police" means all of these reasonable modifications and reforms to "help" police departments and reduce violence on minorities, why not change the slogan to "Reform The Police"? if that's what they really meant? I am met with icy silence.
Um, "Build the wall" is the dumbest possible presentation of my opinion?
Strange. I don't know of a "smarter" or more "nuanced" version that better represents my position. Unless maybe "Build the Fucking Wall Now Already". Would that count as more nuanced?
"And Trump, desperate for an issue ..., will destroy any nuance."
I think that is called projection..
"Getting a haircut or a pedicure isn’t important."
It's not about haircuts. JFC. That's willful ignorance. It's about people being able to continue their livelihoods and be able to take care of themselves and their families, especially if they are barbers or stylists or whatever.
After mass anti-war protests and fire bombings in the 60-70s, the University of Alabama agreed to do away with--as they existed then--their evil campus cops. They were bad because they had tried to quell the disorder. They took away their uniforms and sidearms. Put them in university blazers & ties with gray slacks. They looked kind of like TV sports-casters. However, outside of riots, their most visible function was directing traffic and crowds at class change and ball games. Almost nobody followed their directions. They were ignored by drivers and especially by football crowds. They changed back to being police, I think, after one football season.
Someone should ask the people who actually fund the police...middle class taxpayers.
I'm pretty sure those who want to defund the cops aren't the ones paying for them in the first place.
"Social distancing is important, but there are things MORE important. Getting a haircut or a pedicure isn’t important. Protesting the continued execution of black people at the hands of police IS important."
Don't you think people ought to be able to make their own decisions about what's important to them? You know- like you just did for yourself?
@Qwinn
From the article I linked:
"First, the banner that attracts the most people is always the dumbest version of your opinion. It has to lose all nuance to win over the most people. It’s ironic, because most people have actually pledged their sword to a smarter, more complex version of the idea that ultimately takes off, but they quickly realize they have to unite with others under a big, simplified banner if they are to get the power of accumulating members."
The point is, it takes a coalition of people with similar viewpoints to get critical mass. Build the Wall may be the perfect summary of your belief, but lots of us that are concerned about illegal immigration don't focus on the wall alone, but will rally around the slogan to get your support. Same with the "Open the Border" folks, most of whom prefer something short of that.
I ask them If "Defund the Police" means all of these reasonable modifications and reforms to "help" police departments and reduce violence on minorities, why not change the slogan to "Reform The Police"? if that's what they really meant? I am met with icy silence.
They know they can’t go off message without consequences.
See: All Lives Matter.
I initially thought defund the police was a terrible slogan and idea, but the point is not to defund the police, it's to start a negotiation on how to reform and make the police better. Policies including getting rid of the meat-heads on the police force, make it easier to fire cops, have more specialisations within the police force, and better training. That's good politics.
The point is not to get rid of the police, it's to scare the white middle class into getting off their ass and doing something to fix this problem. The Minneapolis city council has staked out their position, now it's time to hear from Police union on what their proposal is. Let the negotiations begin.
As far as nuance "defund the police" is not a typical lefty slogan, because there isn't any nuance. Trump will try to "defend the police" but somebody is going to have to budge. I expect that in ten years some cities will have significantly reformed their police forces. The reforms will force police to do more with less, take a step back and avoid violent confrontations. And then we will see how those cities fare. My guess is that they will be like New York when stop and frisk ended and the police lessened their enforcement, crime stayed about the same.
Lance, there's an extra word at the beginning of your last paragraph.
As far as nuance "defund the police" IS a typical lefty slogan, because there isn't any nuance.
FIFY.
Hey hey ho ho
Western Civ has to go
Bush lied, people died.
People not profits.
And on and on and on...
Lance, there's an extra word at the beginning of your last paragraph.
As far as nuance "defund the police" IS a typical lefty slogan, because there isn't any nuance.
FIFY.
Hey hey ho ho
Western Civ has to go
Bush lied, people died.
People not profits.
And on and on and on...
I've found rioters have the highest level of nuance
Its a cash grab - oh look at all this money paying people to send others to prison which could got to Midnight Baskeball or turning out the vote for Democrats (Acorn)
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