He was the lone holdout on the mask requirement. He seems to be framing mask-wearing as a free-speech issue. He has a point of view and his form of expression is not wearing a mask as he takes his place in the legislature, and he characterizes himself as representing "millions" who are being "silenced" if he cannot "say" what he has to say in the form he prefers.
From the position of his antagonists, he is engaging in an action and the action is dangerous, and that outweighs his interest in saying what he has to say in the form he wants to use. It's a neutral rule that wasn't, presumably, motivated by the desire to suppress a viewpoint, so it's highly unlikely Bailey could win the argument that his free-speech rights are violated, but he isn't claiming to make a legal argument, just to protest in the language of freedom.
And yet, Bailey is suing the governor — J.B. Pritzker (D) — over the lockdown (he "won a temporary restraining order against Pritzker’s stay-at-home order last month, which only applied to him").
On Wednesday, Bailey told The Post that he believed the mask rule... was “not about health” but was instead “just another Democrat bullying tactic.” He said he would wear one if he were concerned for his health, but he isn’t, and doesn’t like being told that he must. “This whole thing that it’s concern for other people? I don’t buy that at all,” he said....I understand that skepticism. The idea that the mask protects other people works to deprive the individual of the ground to say I will decide for myself how much risk I want to take and what freedom not to cover my face means to me. That doesn't mean the experts aren't right when they say it's for other people. It just means that people decide for themselves what to believe and this is the sort of thing that can make you skeptical. It's so convenient.
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“'As I explain above, I chose to begin wearing a mask in public primarily to put others at greater ease, as they might fear me as a possible carrier of COVID-19.'
"That’s absolutely absurd, Cookie."
How so? I have had people ask me not to stand so close to them, (when I was only three or four feet away, rather than six or ten feet); refuse to get on an elevator with me--though I was masked; swerve around me on the street in wide circles to be sure I didn't come within a certain distance to them; and so on. I think some of these people are a bit hyper vigilant and over anxious, but it does not inconvenience me or harm me in any way to accommodate their fears. Accommodating their fears in a time of pandemic is a small and painless courtesy.
“He seems to be framing mask-wearing as a free-speech issue. ... It's a neutral rule that wasn't, presumably, motivated by the desire to suppress a viewpoint, so it's highly unlikely Bailey could win the argument that his free-speech rights are violated, but he isn't claiming to make a legal argument, just to protest in the language of freedom.”
If burning the flag is protected speech then not wearing a mask is protected speech.
If you maintain social distance, there's no need to wear a mask.
If you've been tested and don't have the CV-19 virus, there's no need to wear a mask.
Everyone was NOT wearing a mask and going to the grocery store for two months. How many of us got CV-19? And if you wear a mask or face covering and don't wear it right, its as bad as not wearing it.
There should be a LOT of scientific data supporting it, before we start forcing people to wear masks. Especially out of doors. Right now, it just seems to be "fashionable" and its being hysterically pushed by the same crowd that wanted Florida and GA to be locked down forever.
John Henry,
Just a little note. If a submariner is in an EAB for drills or casualty, ventilation is secured. No AC. Or heat. Ambient temperature changes depend on which compartment you’re in and whether seawater injection temperature is 31 or >90. In the North Atlantic you can get water temps below 32 degrees at 400 feet. You can draw a really great condenser vacuum underwater in the North Atlantic. It gets chilly fast.
It'd be nice if the Politicians and Main Stream media instead of giving us hysterics would give us the facts and the numbers. And the reasons behind wearing masks. I'm not doing it, just because they say so. They've been wrong on this CV-19 situation, so many times, its not funny.
Did you see that CV-19 is NOT easily spread by touching surfaces? So, says the CDC after telling us the opposite for 2 months!
Oh, I see that WWMartin said the exact same thing.
Even if you are between 60-70 and get CV-19 the chances of you dying are VERY Small, and even smaller if you are not morbidly obese or have a heart/kidney problem.
And people need to stop wearing masks while inside their own fucking cars, or out biking and walking around in 80 temps. just don't stop and talk to strangers.
I see Tim is having Control Dreams Withdrawal.
But if they do find a pore, they will fit through.
John Henry
JH, the virii are typically not naked. They are suspended in lipid globules, I believe, which are larger than the (N95) filter. Hence, should be effective.
Things won’t go back to pre pandemic anytime soon, especially if people are expecting others to accept their notion that Covid is no threat. If people are demanding that everything gets opened up and that people should just pretend Covid magically went away then they are are living in some weird right wing fantasy. The aggressiveness toward those who wear masks into stores is on the upswing. From security guards being shot in the head to others being beaten or harassed for wearing a mask or stores requiring that a mask be worn by their customers, it’s getting to be evident who are the violent assholes... it’s not the Karens.
Police: Wisconsin Man Harassed Asian Americans For Wearing Masks At Grocery Store
Michigan security guard killed in mask dispute; suspect said he 'disrespected' them
Three people were charged with first-degree murder in the death of 43-year-old Calvin Munerlyn, a father of eight.
Trump supporters harassed Arizona reporters for wearing masks
And more incidents of aggression toward those who wear masks I haven't linked to.
and then reality sets in
https://www.redstate.com/brandon_morse/2020/05/21/bombshell-study-shows-covid-19-infection-rates-declining-in-states-that-lifted-lockdowns/
Coronavirus: wearing a cloth face mask is less about science and more about solidarity
-Yahoo!.com
.....not to mention thousands of dead Wisconsin voters
Planned Population (PP) is still a possible progression, ostensibly Her Choice, not her Choice. They are counting the babies... bodies and gerrymandering the tally.
I wear a mask at the grocery store, and Home Depot and Lowes, because they won't let me in if I don't. Not their rule, it's a government rule, they're just the enforcers. Have to say they are increasingly half-assed about it too. When I'm feeling really patriotic and anti-authoritarian I purposely go down the aisle against the arrow. Yeah, I'm a total badass.
"Look at us, look at what they make you give."
Michigan security guard killed in mask dispute; suspect said he 'disrespected' them
Three people were charged with first-degree murder in the death of 43-year-old Calvin Munerlyn, a father of eight.
@Inga, you need to read your articles before you link them. The three people who murdered the security guard do not resemble your average Trump voter.
The whole thing is political theater mixed with virtue signalling. Madigan and Pritzker are engaging in political theater, and so is Darren Bailey. The demand that everyone wear masks is political theater, giving the Ingas and others the opportunity to virtue signal by wearing a mask that is utterly useless for stopping coronavirus. Althouse's appeal to "science" is ridiculous. Was it science when we were told that masks are useless? Or is it science now when we're told to wear them whenever we go out of our houses? Pardon my skepticism, but when "science" says whatever Democrats want it to say then it doesn't even superficially resemble real science anymore.
Karen-Inga is hoping for more violence.
No surprise. We might even be able to show you a revolution in Michigan. Nazis get pushback.
More you haven't linked to, Inga? Surely not. Surely you see every sparrow fall. I can point to incidents where there were fights or the police summoned over improper fast food orders. One swallow does not make a summer. One improper behavior, and what you described is certainly improper, is likewise meaningless. I certainly don't agree with it and anybody who wants to wear a mask should go ahead and wear one. I do think that it is typically your side which has wound up the hysteria and if I were pointing fingers I would first point there, but certainly it would be better if everybody would be nicer to each other.
Blogger RigelDog said...
The way I've read that works is that a large number of the viruses get stuck to the particles of cloth and don't continue onwards. Also, the viruses don't travel in zig-zag patterns, so that's why masks should have several layers.
That's why I distinguished in an earlier comment about the two types of filters, depth and absolute.
The absolute filter, like the .3micron we are talking about, is a sieve with very small holes.
The depth filter, such as the cloth filter, or your furnace filter, has very large pores but the air passing through goes through a labyrinth, a maze of twisty little passages (Or perhaps a twisty little maze of passages) As the particle navigates the maze, it gets caught in the corners. (That's a very simplistic explanation but essentially what happens) A virus will, much of the time, get trapped. But many will not. If you have a 95% rated filter, 5% of any particles, including viruses, will pass through. Someone, Aztek?, made a comment about soot passing through when cleaning a chimney.
This assumes that the mask is formfitting and all air in and out passes through the filter media.
The hemispherical N95 mask sort of fits your face so will force most of the air in to go through the filter. That, subject to the limitations above, will keep you from getting viruii. But, these masks also resist exhalation so they tend to put a plastic check valve. When you exhale, pretty much all of your breath (90% or so) passes directly out unfiltered. If you do not have the valve, exhaling will be more difficult for the wearer but more of the air will be filtered. But as you exhale, you force the mask away from your face so about 50% escapes unfiltered. it also affects the fit so your next inhale you will probably get leakage.
So if your goal is to protect others, you are doing NOTHING AT ALL!!!!! Or, if no valve, maybe, sort of, a very, very, minimal amount to mitigation.
On the other hand, if you are re wearing a flat, paper mask it will never conform to your face. The pleats help make it fit, sort of but it is a poor fit.
When you breath in, you force the mask against your month and nose and force much of the airflow through the filter media. So you get some protection. Insert caveat about proper fit and use here. Plus however much filtration the media itself does.
When you breath out, you force the paper away from your face and most, at least 75% probably much more, of your breath goes out the sides, bottom and top. (Where do you think the air comes from that is fogging your glasses?) So if your goal is to protect others, you are doing NOTHING AT ALL!!!!!
Bullshit on masks. They provide neither the wearer nor others protection.
John Henry
Let me know when the anti-Maskers burn down a church.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/05/21/mississippi-church-burns-down-lawsuit-arson-suspected/5237387002/
Blogger Gospace said...
You can draw a really great condenser vacuum underwater in the North Atlantic. It gets chilly fast.
Gee, on our wwii vintage victory ship (USS Great Sitkin AE17) we never had any trouble maintaining 29.5" or better in even tropical waters.
Sounds like your snipes were falling down on the condenser cleaning when in port.
I had a roommate for about a year in the early 70s who was a submariner. MM1 "Fast" Eddie F. It seemed like every other sentence he said involved his beloved boat, USS Flasher.
I doubt he was ever happy other than underweigh and underwater.
Bubbleheads are good people. Batshit crazy but really good people.
Blogger Nichevo said...
JH, the virii are typically not naked. They are suspended in lipid globules, I believe, which are larger than the (N95) filter. Hence, should be effective.
An N95 filter is a depth filter. No pore size at all. Just a little maze of twisty passages. It will catch some of the virii. 95%? Maybe. That's still 5% to get through.
When I was looking for info on the virus size, I did not see anything about the size of the lipid. I had the impression that the 100-200nm was overall size. However there seems to be some doubt about how big the virus actually is.
John Henry
Almost always wrong.
Never in doubt.
So PDJT goes to the Ford plant and doesn't wear a mask.
Reporters harangue him about it.
Pictures of reporters wearing masks improperly, not covering the nose.
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1263575129818161153.html
Fuck them.
John Henry
Food Workers Are Experiencing Hostility and Violence From Customers Refusing to Wear Masks
A Waffle House employee was shot in Colorado after refusing service to a maskless diner
Retail workers at chains, including Kroger, Waffle House, and Costco ,are increasingly caught in the crossfire when it comes to enforcing store or state policies on personal protective equipment.
Death and violence in America over wearing face masks in public. A tragic but predictable outcome #FaceMask #CalvinMurelyn #MaskViolence
Re: Illinois General Assembly
I hope the members wash their hands before they come out from the rest rooms?
How can anybody tell?
A recent study found that at a 2.5 hour choir practice in Skagit County Washington, with 60 participants,one infected person infected about 50 ohers (32 confirmed, 20 probable). Tw died.
Only magical thinking would lead you to believe that a good mask would have made no difference at all
I was thinking of Robert Cook when I wrote it but it applies even more, I suspect, to Inga the State's Handmaiden: that the people who were government humpers and State fellators before and during the pandemic, will be government humpers and State fellators after the pandemic. They will just come up with different rationales, shibboleths and excuses to justify their power trips. Cook at least will come up with something rational-sounding (if not actually rational, where as Inga will just continue saying stupid stuff.
Oh, we never had a problem pulling a vacuum. Just a lot easier when seawater is below freezing. Skimmers are designed for tropical operations, subs, not so much. There are a few freshwater cooling systems cooled by seawater. On one boat the max temperature for cooling water inlet into the cooler was 80. Seawater temp where we were at was 90+. You can’t get 80 degree water from 90 degree water. Any out of spec log readings needed to be circled in red with an explanation and recommended corrective action. We weren’t circling the readings because while they were OOS, they weren’t really. So naturally, I was the one the engineer called in to explain. So I explained. He said to circle in red, explain, and suggest corrective action. Corrective action suggested was “Shift operations to North Atlantic.” That satisfied him. I sometimes wonder if anyone from higher commands ever read that entry....
Gospace,
Now this ain't no shit:
I stood a lot of engineroom messenger watches. You know what they do but for others, the main job is to go around and write down a bunch of temperatures and pressures every hour.
Seawater inlet temp was on top of the condenser and hard to read. I'd sort of squint at it and if it looked like what I expected, I'd just write down what I thought it was. Nobody ever caught me.
But you can't fool Gaia. Now, after all these years, I find that that a whole cult of global whatsit has been built on my bullshit ocean temperatures. And millions of other phoney temps taken by tens of thousands of other sailors like me.
Karma is a bitch.
I'm sorry for causing this scam.
If it's any consolation, I feel guilty as Hell. My only excuse is that I was an MM3 at the time and everyone knows MM3's don't know jackshit. (I only know a little bit more now)
John Henry
Steve,
Here's a test you can try at home:
Put on a flt paper mask
Get a small mirror
Get someone to watch the mirror for you.
Breathe in
Hold the mirror close to the center of the front of the mask
Breathe out
Did the mirror fog? I'll bet a donut that it doesn't.
Now repeat holding the mirror along the sides and top and bottom of the mask
Does the mirror fog? Another donut says it did.
What does this simple science experiment tell you about how much of your exhalation is being filtered by the mask and how much is escaping unfiltered?
John Henry
Back in the late 70s and early 80s I was involved in designing class 100 (now ISO5) cleanrooms. No more than 100 0.3micron particles per cubic foot of air.
This is usually done with HEPA filters, which are absolute (sieve) filters.
HEPA filters require a monstrous amount of horsepower to move the huge amounts of air through them. HEPA filters are also expensive as hell to buy and maintain as well as being fragile.
At that time there had been a lot of research into using multiple depth filters. You run the air through a 98% filter and remove all but 2% of the particles.
Then you run that through another 98% filter and now you have 2% of the 2% particles or 0.04% of the particles. That would meet the standards for clean rooms.
Huge savings doing it this way. BUT, FDA didn't like it. They did not say we could not. All they cared about, in theory, was no more than 100 particles per cubic foot and 100 FPM velocity.
But they didn't like it.
So we went with HEPA filters.
John Henry
I think we should all have that tattooed on us as a requirement to post here!
If I'm reading the comments of our hostess correctly, that is forthcoming.
Bubbleheads are good people. Batshit crazy but really good people.
Motorcycle cops!!
According to this study published in Science, the value of “k” (the proportion of Covid-19 cases which pass on, propagate to other people averages 0.1. A small proportion of the cases, perhaps 10%, are responsible for passing along something like 80% of the subsequent cases.
For everyone who didn’t understand- The difference between a sea story and a fairytale. One begins “Once upon a time “, the other begins “Now this ain’t no shit”. Or sometimes “This is a no shitter”...
Karen-Inga. Never in doubt but always wrong.
A lesson that Inga will NOT learn.
steve uhr,
That choir incident dates back to March 10 when the scientists were downplaying aerosol transmission. Got anything more recent.
Anthony,
That's not a gas mask; THIS is a gas mask!
@steve uhr, how about you go back to slinging mud at the young men from Covington Catholic? That’s the only thing you’ve ever succeeded at.
To presume that the “action is dangerous” is to get caught in your own underwear. ‘Action could be dangerous” would have led to More perspicacity.
it is fact that wearing a mask when you don't need it to protect yourself is hard on your body -- puts extra work on your heart and lungs. Also the not-N95 masks that people make and wear are INEFFECTIVE and are just make work and false security. This whole thing has been a HOAX designed to accustom Americans to tyranny
Mask wearing is the Blue Tribe's hydroxycloroquine.
Big Mike said...
@steve uhr, how about you go back to slinging mud at the young men from Covington Catholic? That’s the only thing you’ve ever succeeded at.
5/22/20, 4:40 AM
Didn't he have some kind of triumph with some pushback on happy hours or ladies' nights or some human kind of thing? Or did he get his ass kicked, who remembers who cares, the process is the punishment for those eeeevil bar owners!
Paco Wové said...
Mask wearing is the Blue Tribe's hydroxycloroquine.
False equivalence. Tsk.
JH, wish I could find the review of masks I found when I was researching homemade solutions, but I did think they discussed pore size.
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