May 21, 2020

"Some farmers are injecting pregnant sows to cause abortions. Others are forced to euthanize their animals..."

"... often by gassing or shooting them. It’s gotten bad enough that Senator Chuck Grassley, an Iowa Republican, has asked the Trump administration to provide mental health resources to hog farmers. Despite this grisly reality — and the widely reported effects of the factory-farm industry on America’s lands, communities, animals and human health long before this pandemic hit — only around half of Americans say they are trying to reduce their meat consumption. Meat is embedded in our culture and personal histories in ways that matter too much, from the Thanksgiving turkey to the ballpark hot dog. Meat comes with uniquely wonderful smells and tastes, with satisfactions that can almost feel like home itself. And what, if not the feeling of home, is essential? And yet, an increasing number of people sense the inevitability of impending change....  One of the unexpected side effects of these months of sheltering in place is that it’s hard not to think about the things that are essential to who we are.... We cannot protect against pandemics while continuing to eat meat regularly. Much attention has been paid to wet markets, but factory farms, specifically poultry farms, are a more important breeding ground for pandemics. Further, the C.D.C. reports that three out of four new or emerging infectious diseases are zoonotic — the result of our broken relationship with animals.... As in a dream where our homes have rooms unknown to our waking selves, we can sense there is a better way of eating, a life closer to our values."

Writes the acclaimed novelist Jonathan Safran Foer in "The End of Meat Is Here/If you care about the working poor, about racial justice, and about climate change, you have to stop eating animals" (NYT). He also does non-fiction with "Eating Animals" (2009) and "We Are the Weather: Saving the Planet Begins at Breakfast" (2019). From his Wikipedia article:

Foer was a "flamboyant" and sensitive child who, at the age of 8, was injured in a classroom chemical accident that resulted in "something like a nervous breakdown drawn out over about three years," during which "he wanted nothing, except to be outside his own skin."... He has been an occasional vegetarian since the age of 10... In his childhood, teen, and college years, he called himself vegetarian but still often ate meat....
I thought that meat-as-home image was interesting. Meat almost feels like home, but you know those dreams where you find other rooms in your house? In your home that smells of meat, there's another room, and it has no meat in it, you've seen it in your dreams, and you can find it in real life. Or something. It's a bit cornball, and the references to "home" are at the beginning and the end — much farther apart in the actual article that in my snippet above — so it would be easy to miss.

Something else that caught my eye: At one point, he says: "These are not my or anyone’s opinions, despite a tendency to publish this information in opinion sections. And the answers to the most common responses raised by any serious questioning of animal agriculture aren’t opinions." There's something dictatorial in that: This isn't opinion, this is truth. Ironically, that makes him sound more opinionated. It yells: I am a polemicist, an ideologue.

I can appreciate a good polemic, and Foer seems to be striving to be a first-rate polemicist. I suspect that his great success as a novelist makes him think that if he does polemics he'll trounce the other writers. This didn't work on me, though. Who exactly is supposed to be horrified by pigs getting abortions and euthanasia? People who support abortions and euthanasia for human beings? People who accept that pigs are raised for slaughter, want to eat meat, but are morally opposed to abortions and euthanasia for human beings? If it's just people who feel sorry for the farmers who won't make the money they'd planned to make from their hogs because of the pandemic, that has nothing to do with the inevitability of an impending transition to vegetarianism.

AND: Senator Grassley has been advocating for mental health resources for farmers since long before the current pandemic. See "Grassley Signs Onto Bipartisan Ernst Legislation to Provide Mental Health Support to Agricultural Communities" (press release from Grassley, May 24, 2018)("("[O]ur farmers and agricultural workers experience disproportionately high levels of suicide... 'We must do more to ensure those who work tirelessly from sunrise to sundown to feed and fuel our world have access to the mental health resources and supports they need'")).

126 comments:

Rabel said...

I'm warming up to the idea that damn near every person who works as a professional writer, wherever they sit on the political spectrum, is a fucking asshole.

Mattman26 said...

They can have my meat when they pry it . . . you know the rest.

Birkel said...

I have been predicting starvation, especially for the third world's citizens. Those folks won't be able to pay the higher prices caused by reduced supply. Reduced supply is inevitable. Poor people in this country - more created every day - will similarly suffer.

For pointing out this inevitability - starvation - I was called an idiot. I was told I did not care about people.

Holomodor = Caring for people
According to the Leftist Collectivists, that is.
Walter Duranty smiles and shines his Pulitzer's.

Don't be a cvnt.

Michael K said...

Nonsense from the usual leftists.

The farmers' problems are from distribution networks that should be fixed soon, as least in states with Republican Governors.

Yancey Ward said...

The Left is relentless.

Howard said...

Cutting back from grotesque gluttonous gorging is all that is needed. Prohibition don't gonna fly.

Birkel said...

All of this for a disease that may not be as deadly as the flu?

https://spectator.us/stanford-study-suggests-coronavirus-deadly-flu/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Stanford researchers join the list of Covidiots.
Abused Canadian lady parts are not a thing.

Pillage Idiot said...

In essentially every country in the world, when the working poor achieve slightly higher levels of income, one of their behavior changes is to add more meat to their diet.

Why does the author want to hurt the working poor?

The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...

I don’t care about any of those things. Well, not care care. Pass the gravy!

Fernandinande said...

"The End of Meat Is Here"

Predict away, acclaimed novelist!

"If you care about the working poor, about racial justice, and about climate change"

Nope, I don't care at all about any of those phony causes.

I care about the horrible way that factory farm animals are raised.

"One of the unexpected side effects of these months of sheltering in place is that" the cure is far worse than the disease.

gilbar said...

Despite this grisly reality ... only around half of Americans say they are trying to reduce their meat consumption

They're having to do this, because they can't sell them
IF you don't like this grisly reality, EAT MORE MEAT!

MadisonMan said...

Missing from the op-ed piece: Actual identification of just who the farmers are who are doing this. Color me suspicious.

tim maguire said...

Like logical proofs of the existence of God, proofs of the moral imperative of vegetarianism always fall down at some point. It always relies on the acceptance of some key detail that hasn't been argued and can't be demonstrated as logical.

Sam L. said...

MEAT!!: It's what I LIKE to eat!

Lucid-Ideas said...

They can pry my bratwurst from my cold dead hand. Animal euthanization in agriculture over feed prices. But as they say, never let a crisis go to waste.

I'll start worrying about livestock slaughter when animal rights activists give a crap about PETA's kill shelters (look it up).

Temujin said...

People like Foer are always the ones getting up close and in your face before they shout the word "Science" at you. Except in this case he did not use that word. He inferred it. There is a science to farming. A lot of it. He knows nothing of farming, either animals or vegetables/fruit. This is not the first time in the history of civilization when animal farmers have had to cull or diminish the herd. It will not be the last time either.

There is nothing pretty or kind about raising animals for slaughter. But it is the accepted way of things and has been since...well...almost forever. And the farmers tend to have more respect for the animals they raise than most. When it comes to eating meat, one can always choose to not participate without having to shove it in others faces and tag onto it things that have zero to do with eating meat.

"The End of Meat Is Here/If you care about the working poor, about racial justice, and about climate change, you have to stop eating animals"

To draw that stupid line between the moral good of vegetarianism that brings a climate that does not change, removes poverty miraculously, and puts an end to racial disharmony, borders on the insane. To offer that these things are a side product of eating meat is well...

But he furthers it by saying that We cannot protect against pandemics while continuing to eat meat regularly.

This is a crazy man writing. Perfectly at home among peers sitting (or longing to sit) at Blossom restaurant on the Upper West Side.

Sebastian said...

"a life closer to our values"

A life closer to my values affirms our position at the top of the food chain, with a taste of our evolutionary superiority in every meaty bite.

Fernandinande said...

CDC sez:
The zoonotic diseases of most concern in the U.S. are:
-- Zoonotic influenza
-- Salmonellosis
-- West Nile virus
-- Plague
-- Emerging coronaviruses (e.g., severe acute respiratory syndrome and Middle East respiratory syndrome)
-- Rabies
-- Brucellosis
-- Lyme disease

++
Following their links:
influenza
"While it is unusual for people to get influenza infections directly from animals, sporadic human infections and outbreaks caused by certain avian influenza A viruses have been reported."

Salmonellosis
"Most people who get food poisoning do not go to a doctor or submit a sample to a laboratory, so we never learn what germ made them sick."

"West Nile virus (WNV) is the leading cause of mosquito-borne disease in the continental United States. ... Fortunately, most people infected with WNV do not feel sick."

Mr Wibble said...

I'm not going to live in a pot.

I'm not going to eat tofu and bugs.

Bruce Hayden said...

Note to Foer. SARS-CoV-2 (the COVID-19 virus) was apparently not, in fact, transmitted to humans from other animals outside a laboratory (most likely one of the virology labs in Wuhan China) setting. It is relatively safe to say this now. Actual zoonotic diseases show their adaption from other animal to human. Genetic footprints showing the transition. This one appeared, miraculously right Next to virology labs known to be doing research on similar coronaviruses, completely adapted to humans - “human ready”. That doesn’t really happen in the real world.

Also, humans have adapted over probably much of the last the ten million years (before our evolutionary split with chimps and Pygmy chimps, and probably after our split with gorillas) to do better with some meat (or fish) in our diets. It doesn’t have to be red eat - poultry is fine. But humans are healthier, bigger, stronger, etc with meat in our diet. And I expect that this applies a little more to males than females. This does not appear to be new - chimps engage in similar male hunter/female gatherer sexual differentiation as we do, with the males typically consuming more meat than the females (before they return from a hunt).

Human health and stature declined significantly when we moved from a hunter/gatherer society to an agrarian grain asked one. And human height increased dramatically in East Asian countries after WW II, when they were able to add significant meat to their rice based diet. My father, having spent the end of that war in rural China would likely have been amazed at Chinese playing in the NBA. The small stature of the Japanese we fought and the Chinese we worked with were apparently not a result of genetics, but more likely a low meat, high carb, diet.

Our tastes for food are to a great extent evolutionarily derived. Sweet was craved, because it identified a high energy food source. Meat is likely craved because we do better physically if we eat it and thus those who have the craving did better evolutionarily by having more and healthier children.

JackWayne said...

Acclaimed by what idiots?

D.D. Driver said...

Covid-19 proved the thing I believed all along!

chuck said...

This is why we need more states. City people like Foer should not rule rural areas, they haven't any useful knowledge or experience with agriculture, mining, and the other activities that underlie civilization.

gerry said...

According to Wikipedia, Foer lives in Brooklyn (New York City). I wondered if he stayed there for this plague, or if he went to Connecticut or Florida to escape the harrowing of New York?

DanTheMan said...

>>Jonathan Safran Foer in "The End of Meat Is Here"

Not as long as I'm here, it's not.

hombre said...

“If God didn’t intend us to eat them, he would not have made them meat.” Anon. meat eater.

zipity said...


Might I suggest the author proceed to have sexual intercourse with himself?

"Never let a crisis go to waste...." indeed.

MartyH said...

Zootonic means transferred from animals (including insects) to humans. The CDC recommendations for avoiding zootonic disease does not include eating less meat. Their top three recommendations to avoid zootonic diseases is to wash your hands, avoid getting it from your pets, and avoid insect bites.

mikee said...

I've raised a pig. They can be factory raised or farm raised or wild range raised (google feral hogs). And theywill be raised for consumption again, as they have been for the last ten millenia or so. Because they taste good, and provide protien and fat in ham-shaped pieces.

Same for the cows, chickens, sheep, goats, and every other form of farm raised animal. Same for veggies that people want to eat. It is called market based capitalism and it tastes fucking wonderful!

Carol said...

Help the working poor by running them out of a job. Got it.

Kinda like how we ran them out of those awful places they lived in. I mean, who could live like that? Put them all in council houses or tower blocks. Scratch that, put them in tiny houses. And let 'em eat soy.

Todd said...

We cannot protect against pandemics while continuing to eat meat regularly.

And why the hell now? We are NOT talking "wet markets" here, we are talking about [at least here] American farms raising animals.

Much attention has been paid to wet markets, but factory farms, specifically poultry farms, are a more important breeding ground for pandemics.

And how MANY pandemics have been caused/started on US chicken farms? I don't recall hearing of ANY at least not in the last 50 years.

If you want to stop eating meat, go right ahead. I am not going to try and stop you just DON'T expect me to join you.

Jamie said...

A vegetarian who frequently ate meat - is that like a "staunch defender of women" who diddles female interns or fingers female employees?

I guess if you declare yourself to be something, that's all that counts. Henceforth I declare myself a gifted coloratura - so it doesn't matter, does it, that I'm a mezzo-soprano who doesn't practice?

Leora said...

I'm astounded how every solution people come up with for pandemics seems to be exactly what they wanted to do before. That includes the folks who just want to open things up, protect the nursing homes better, and let everyone assess their own risk who hopefully will be the majority.

RNB said...

Q: If I go to a party and a vegan is there, how can I spot him?

A: Don't worry. Inside ten minutes, he'll tell you all about it.

policraticus said...

This entire period in American life brings into sharp focus the desire of some to regulate society according to their own principles. If you scratch just beneath the surface of almost all these new regulations you'll see that the it isn't about caring for the working poor, or racial justice, or climate change, or even the global pandemic. It is all about control for control's own sake. It is about achieving compliance and submission.

Well, good luck to Mr. Foer, but I am afraid he will be disappointed. Again.

Or, at least I hope so.

Fernandinande said...

Deaths per year from CDC's list of zoonotic diseases (#s from wikipedia).

Zoonotic influenza - ?
Salmonellosis - 450
West Nile virus - 130
Plague - 60
Emerging coronaviruses - ?
Rabies - 1 or 2
Brucellosis - Zero?
Lyme disease - Zero?

Car accidents: 36,000

policraticus said...

This entire period in American life brings into sharp focus the desire of some to regulate society according to their own principles. If you scratch just beneath the surface of almost all these new regulations you'll see that the it isn't about caring for the working poor, or racial justice, or climate change, or even the global pandemic. It is all about control for control's own sake. It is about achieving compliance and submission.

Well, good luck to Mr. Foer, but I am afraid he will be disappointed. Again.

Or, at least I hope so.

Unknown said...

Seems to me that if he thinks "not eating animals" is a necessary condition for racial justice, helping the poor, or stopping climate change, his definitions of those three might need work.

DrSquid said...

When are you going to stop reading that bullshit newspaper?

Tyrone Slothrop said...

Oh brother.

Swede said...

No.

Jupiter said...

"Acclaimed", is he. Sounds a little high-strung.

Bob Boyd said...

Piggy poo.

Ambrose said...

"If you care about good thing X, you have to do what I say." The evergreen tyrannical reasoning.

Earnest Prole said...

If you care about all that is sacred, you'll [do some crazy thing I dreamed up as a substitute for traditional old-time religion].

mandrewa said...

This is just so many lies, but I guess here we are being told what the hive mind will soon be believing.

Reducing the consumption of meat has nothing to do with helping farmers or helping the poor or racial justice.

It may have something to do with the climate since reduction of emission of methane, which is a greenhouse gas, and is a byproduct of animals being alive and if we stop eating meat there will be fewer animals and the farmlands can be converted to mansions for lawyers.

But even that is debatable. Because there is an argument that methane emissions don't really matter since the infrared wavelengths that they absorb are already being taken out by the water in our atmosphere. And I'm talking about very small amounts of water, not just rain but what most people would experience as dry air.

Plus we know that atmospheric methane breaks down relatively quickly. Wikipedia claims methane's half-life in the troposphere is 6.7 years.

So ever since I've heard of that idea I've thought, wow, that's a really good question. I looked for an answer when I first realized the issue but I didn't find an explanation of why this didn't matter and I haven't found an explanation since.

It's very odd. Wikipedia has an extensive entry on methane and it's effect on the atmosphere, but no where in that article do they discuss the absorption spectrum of methane let alone it's overlap with that of water.

Typically when you do see a discussion of the absorption spectrum of methane no attention is drawn to the fact that they are talking about completely dry air and that in our real atmosphere the air is mostly not dry.

It's so very odd that it is so difficult to find any discussion of this.

Richard Dolan said...

"One of the unexpected side effects of these months of sheltering in place is that it’s hard not to think about the things that are essential to who we are...."

So he's looking for the meaning of life, thinks he's found it in his veggie/climate shtick and wants to convert the world. Good luck with that. Live and let live is a very American approach to millenarian seekers, even if (as is usually the case) they aren't into returning the favor.

Tomcc said...

Interesting post. Mr. Foer's viewpoint is not particularly unique, I don't think. I do get a bit of a Greta Thunberg vibe, though. Absolutists make me uneasy.

Tom T. said...

Everything I've read says that meat demand is way down due to all the restaurant closures. Yet somehow the economics and regulatory climate of food production are such that the price to consumers has not been dropping. It would be interesting if some journalist were to try to figure out why this is.

As for Foer, he certainly doesn't seem to be stable enough to be giving advice to others

BarrySanders20 said...

Jonathan Safran Foer's wet market dream is to control what other people eat. He wakes up and thinks, "Dang, it was only a dream."

Roy Lofquist said...

Memories!

https://youtu.be/8I5rtQKP85I?t=47

dbp said...

"Much attention has been paid to wet markets, but factory farms, specifically poultry farms, are a more important breeding ground for pandemics."

This is the first pandemic which resulted in a global economic shut-down, so maybe there have been poultry farm versions, but what impact did they have? Too little for us to notice.

Which makes me think the guy is either unhinged or over-reacting.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

This little piggy went to market
This little piggy stayed home
This little piggy had roast beef
This little piggy was ripped from the womb...

rhhardin said...

People used to go outside and kill a chicken for dinner without needing grief counseling. Now everybody is running around with their heads cut off.

Bob Boyd said...

Still waiting for Impossible Snakon plant based snake bacon edible product.

Lance said...

I'd never heard of Jonathan Safran Foer. So I looked him up via the Althouse Amazon portal. So unless I'm mistaken he's written three novels and two polemics.

Is he an acclaimed novelist the same way Barack Obama was an acclaimed Nobel prize winner?

Foer asserts that farmers are aborting and euthanizing their livestock, and they need mental health support. I see news articles supporting the destruction of surplus livestock. But they're also destroying other crops as well: potatoes, beans, cabbage, etc. So if destroying livestock means we should stop eating meat, does destroying grains and vegetables mean we should just stop eating altogether?

As for farmer mental health, I see Grassley has been pushing that notion since long before the pandemic. Smells porky to me. Not very honest for Foer to treat that as an argument against meat production/consumption.

Todd said...

So this is YET another thing we have to worry about due to climate change? Well a Russian scientist said the following in regard to Elon Musk's plan to terraform Mars:

“For example, for a thermonuclear explosion on Mars’ pole, one of the plans of SpaceX, to have tangible results, more than 10,000 launches of missiles that can carry the largest payloads and are being developed now are needed,” that official said in an interview.

The state media outlet concluded, “According to the Roscosmos executive director, humanity does not have the capacity to influence in any tangible way Mars’ or Venus’ climate.”


So if "humanity does not have the capacity to influence in any tangible way" either Mars or Venus, what has Earth to worry about? Science says!

Achilles said...

"The End of Meat Is Here/If you care about the working poor, about racial justice, and about climate change, you have to stop eating animals" (NYT).


Remember Ann calls PJMedia "trashy."

Kevin said...

"If you care about the working poor, about racial justice, and about climate change, you have to stop eating animals"

The Left is full of litmus tests so as to create more opportunities for virtue signaling.

Every day in Progressive-ville will begin with a national test of caring that those outside the defined affirmative action groups will struggle to pass.

chickelit said...

Fuck that author and the high horse he rode in on.

tcrosse said...

Has this guy asked the working poor how they feel about giving up meat?

Achilles said...

This has been the plan all along. We are having he Green New Deal imposed on us and the sheep are going along.

COVID-19 is not going to kill that many people. The numbers they have been spouting are lies and the officials with their souls are adjusting their numbers accordingly.

But notice that there are specific places where a lot of people died:

Nursing homes where democrats forced COVID-19 patients into enclosed places with vulnerable people.

The left used the same "models" and "science" that they use to push global warming and they are murdering people to keep the crisis going. They used to say "Flatten the Curve" but there was never any risk of hospitals getting overwhelmed.

This is all garbage. But it is a preview to the globablist desires should they ever get power again.

n.n said...

Faith, religion/ethics, and politics. Abortion, excess deaths, diversity (e.g. racism), social (i.e. relativistic) justice, and vegetables. Assuming a "plausible" origin of the Wuhan virus (formally known as SARS-CoV-2), and ignoring the human transmission of antigens caused by poor hygienic habits, liberal socialization, and dark holes. Also, [catastrophic] [anthropogenic] climate cooling... warming... change (i.e. chaos or "evolution").

h said...

Another Senator, I can't remember who, is seeking to fund mental health resources for vegetarians.

Achilles said...

Andrew Cuomo just said this:

“Look, this is a political season. I get it. I have refrained from politics,” Cuomo said; if there was laughter in the room, it was inaudible in the video.

“Anyone who wants to ask why did the state do that with COVID patients in nursing home, it’s because the state followed President Trump’s CDC guidance,” the governor said. “So they should ask President Trump. I think that will stop the conversation.”


Cuomo should hang.

n.n said...

"Some farmers are injecting pregnant sows to cause abortions. Others are forced to euthanize their animals..."

Ah, the poetic justice of NYT scalped while wielding the double-edged scalpel of close association. Also, anthropomorphization of animals with a faith, religious, and ideological fervor above and beyond demonstrating a respect for life in its diverse color, shapes, and forms.

Automatic_Wing said...

There should be a place in this world for the sensitive and flamboyant. But it's probably not a good idea for these folks to have a lot of influence over public policy.

pacwest said...

One of the unexpected side effects of these months of sheltering in place is that it’s hard not to think about the things that are essential to who we are

A productive member of society? Taking care of our family members? I dunno, you tell me. Four fingers or five.

Ray - SoCal said...

Issue seems to be FDA regulation that made supply chain for butchering into large scale slaughterhouses in late 60’s, away from state control, and lowered prices to farmers.

https://www.aei.org/op-eds/consolidation-among-meat-packers-is-dangerous-big-government-is-the-cause/

Static Ping said...

I remember watching a video discussing why the Americas were absolutely devastated by disease when the Europeans arrived but the Europeans suffered no such issue. Part of his conclusion was that the Old World had a wide variety of useful animals - horses, camels, donkeys, sheep, goats, pigs, cattle, etc. - that could be domesticated, while the New World only had llamas which, while useful, are not remotely on the same tier. Good luck domesticating a buffalo. Unfortunately, domestication came with a variety of nasty diseases. The Europeans who arrived were either immune or resistant to those diseases. The natives... not so much.

Ah, here we go:
Americapox: The Missing Plague by CGP Grey
https://youtu.be/JEYh5WACqEk

The thing is those animals from which those diseases came from were a small cost for the advantages they provided. There are several reasons why most of the New World was still in the Stone Age when the Europeans arrived and the lack of domestication was one of them.

Related, I would love to see Genghis Khan's reaction to this guy trying to convince him to not eat meat. He'd be executed within the hour.

wild chicken said...

"When are you going to stop reading that bullshit newspaper?"

Nah nag bag.

Althouse does what tf she wants.

Not Sure said...

There's probably been a big spike in the demand for emotional support animals in NYC. Some entrepreneur should connect the emotionally unstable urbanites to the sad farmers. Think about the potential for greater happiness!

PHenry said...

You can't have any pudding until you eat your meat.
How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?

I WANT MY PUDDING!

Mary Beth (the commenter) said...

Much attention has been paid to wet markets, but factory farms, specifically poultry farms, are a more important breeding ground for pandemics.

How many have come from factory farming and how many from more primitive farming where the animals are living closely with humans?

jimbino said...

Pet cats and dogs each carry up to 40+ zoonoses, from toxoplasmosia to rabies. Time has come to ban mistreatment, like eating and ownership, of cats and dogs. Some people are known to cuddle them, scratch them and even kiss them!

Char Char Binks, Esq. said...

You’re either with us or against us.

bagoh20 said...

When we run out of meat, this writer is gonna be the first one in the pot. Unessential and a Karen.

Michael K said...

Isn't Foer the guy who published that fake story about driving a tank in Iraq and squashing dogs ?

PJ said...

He also does non-fiction

Ha!

Kyzer SoSay said...

"Zoonotic influenza - ?
Salmonellosis - 450
West Nile virus - 130
Plague - 60
Emerging coronaviruses - ?
Rabies - 1 or 2
Brucellosis - Zero?
Lyme disease - Zero?

Car accidents: 36,000"

The author's retort would be that meat-eating causes aggressive driving.

Matthew Heintz said...

Acclaimed novelist Foer, after several weeks snarfing down his new 'vegan" diet,was found stumbling around like a blind dog in a meat factory!

iowan2 said...

The issue today with hogs and chickens, is vertical integration.

If you breed 200 sows, you first have to have kill times at a packing plant, for 1600, 200 lb hogs

When a packing plant went idle because employees were infected and they had to close down to sanitize. Then wait till they could staff up to run the lines. No big deal right? Except there are fat hogs ready to put on trucks those very same days. So? Well, a hog finishing building holds around 2000 head of 200 pound hogs. The finishing buildings are managed on an all in, all out system. 2000 hd go out, power washing and sanitizing takes place, about a week after the first hog leaves, 2000 hd of 40 pounders show up.

There is no place to put 2000 hogs ready to slaughter, that MUST make room for 40 pounders.
This cascades down the verticle chain. 40 pounders are coming out of nursery facilities that that take 10 day old pigs, just farrowed. Those pigs coming out of farrowing houses.

All of these buildings follow standard cleaning and sanitizing procedures, in an all in, all out system. Further down the chain a decision has to be made to breed back the sow (artificial insemination)on its first heat cycle, in order to average 2.5 farrowing per year, per sow.

caveat: These numbers are close not actual, for demonstration purposes only. There could be another link in the chain, but the example stands. I won't get in a back and forth with some one that insists on quibbling over exact numbers.

tcrosse said...

Now try to convince the Chinese to give up pig-meat.

Leland said...

So why does this clown think farmers are forcing cows to have abortions? It seems an absurd claim not supported by anything else written, unless he thinks farmers, who own cows (which would be ranchers, not farmers, go see "Oklahoma!"), have decided that climate change is bad, so we don't need more meat yet they want to own cattle?

doctrev said...

I absolutely see what fiction novelist Jonathan Safran Foer is trying to say. The first step, that should really be done immediately, is to raise awareness of ritual slaughter of animals. We don't permit neo-Aztecs to carve out the hearts of their victims, why do we think some butchers are above the law just because they use outdated methods? Once this is done, we need to immediately criminalize all outdated ritual killing as animal cruelty, forbid the import of meat gained by such practices, and bring criminal charges against any butcher or grocer involved in selling such meat. Denmark has already banned such animal cruelty, so it's hardly foreign to the Western world.

Heyyyy, I'm really starting to enjoy telling people how to eat meat! Great job, Jonathan Safran Foer.

doctrev said...

Oh, and I should add, Jonathan Safran Foer narrated "If This is Kosher," so I know he agrees with me about the fundamental cruelty of religious slaughter.

D 2 said...

So many great comments above. I think particularly apt is the idea that in a major crisis, or maybe for any event in their lives, there are some personalities who see it - whatever the “it” is - as proof to reaffirm their existing world views. But they enjoy parading it in language as being that the idea is NOW a sure-run thing.

Pandemic? - less meat
High rise apartments going up in your community? - less meat
Brazil invades the Congo? - less meat.

Note it’s not just veganism, it’s just easy to see it sometimes with some interests than with others. We all probably suffer from a little bias, it’s just odd that some parties can never see it in themselves, when it’s so baldly apparent.

You wonder If this guy ever finds himself on the road to Damascus. That, I think, would be more interesting than whatever he is trying to say now.

Iman said...

More horseschiff from the NYT. Being a sibling of Frankie "the Fly" Foer gets him an instant disqualification from me.

Iman said...

Blogger Mattman26 said...
They can have my meat when they pry it . . . you know the rest.

Another dedicated onanist, lol...

walter said...

Perhaps he has TBI cognitive impairment from the chemical exposure.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

D 2 said...

You wonder If this guy ever finds himself on the road to Damascus.

He's constantly on the road to Damascus, just waiting for Paul to show up.

Anne-I-Am said...

Note his clever conflation of observations in order to indict the US/West...

Wet markets....factory farming in the West...claims that new diseases will derive from zoonotic sources...Danger, danger, danger.

Fact: No pandemics have arisen from US animal operations. Not even any zoonoses. And no citation that emerging diseases will be mostly zoonotic--nor any definition of what that means.

The bubonic plague is zoonotic. Cowpox. Swine flu. Bird flu. Some STDs. Malaria.

When you think about it, what other sources of disease are likely? Other than those that arise from intrinsic malfunctioning of the body (neurodegenerative disorders, metabolic disorders, congenital disorders, etc.).

Most bacterial infections outside of hospitals don't come from people (unless one consumes human e coli). No viral diseases originate in humans. Inanimate objects don't give rise to bacterial or viral diseases.

Really, that little factoid is needlessly panic-mongering.

dbzdak said...

If you want to have any chance at convincing meat-eaters to quit, write like David Foster Wallace in his essay "Consider the Lobster".

Bob Smith said...

Shove it.

Big Mike said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Big Mike said...

I am so far past being fed up by vegans looking for reasons to push their mental aberration on the rest of us. Perhaps our tolerance of their unhealthy eating habits is a mistake, and perhaps we need to force them to eat meat at least once a day. Yes, for the sake of the working poor everyone must eat at least a half pound of meat a day. Or else.

rcocean said...

"acclaimed novelist Jonathan Safran Foer"

Acclaimed by who? I've never heard of him.

Diamond said...

1986. I was flying a bunch of RC-135 missions off the coast of Kamchatka during that time period. That's when the Russians were really the bad guys. And yes, the Russkies knew that KAL 007 was not a spy plane.

Nichevo said...


doctrev said...
Oh, and I should add, Jonathan Safran Foer narrated "If This is Kosher," so I know he agrees with me about the fundamental cruelty of religious slaughter.



Ah, it's you. You seem nice.

Any point in engaging you on a discussion of the merits of kosher slaughter, particularly in comparison with the process of halal slaughter?

Of course not. I believe you make cogent remarks on other subjects but on this topic, will always find you here.

Just one question for my edification: are you a doctor, Trev?

iowan2 said...

As a population comes out of subsistance existance, they naturally want meat. No matter how some want to spin it, we have a instinctual need for meat.

Q.Why do you think wet markets exist? A.To fill a need.

Friendo said...

What a fucking cunt. Jeezus.

Banjo said...

I have heard of Sofer but haven't read any of the yarns he spins. No chance I will now.

Skeptical Voter said...

Iowan2 at 2:59 has it right when he talks about the problems of interruption in a vertical supply chain. There's a pipeline from that pregnant sow to the porkchop on your plate, and it's got to keep moving. It's true about pigs, chickens, cows and such. Disrupt things and you've got trouble right there in River City.

There are lot of other supply chains out there that have been disrupted by these lockdowns, and it's going to take some time to recover.

doctrev said...

Nichevo said...

Ah, it's you. You seem nice.

Any point in engaging you on a discussion of the merits of kosher slaughter, particularly in comparison with the process of halal slaughter?

5/21/20, 5:26 PM

I'm absolutely wonderful. And yes, engage away! I must say, even a few hours of research have been a real eye-opener. I wasn't aware so many European countries had banned shechita outright. So while I'm not terribly serious right now, I could ante up pretty fast if I absolutely had to. Given that the dude who brought us the Althouse bait is fanatically opposed to shechita AND is an acclaimed author, where I'm just poking a hornet's nest, you'd probably want to address his perspective on this issue before mine.

If I had to make a serious point: the NYT tends to focus on elites offering guidelines for us proletarians. Which is all well and good, but some of us have been noticing a certain hypocrisy on four topics by the elite media.

1) Sexual Assault.
2) Transparency in large-scale accounting
3) Rule of law issues
4) Racial relations ("black supremacy" to some unenlightened minds)

So far, conservatives have been giving up a lot of ground on most of these issues, and it might have something to do with the "Dems are the real racists" rhetoric being the general strategy. Now, we could double down on an obviously losing hand against a cultural juggernaut, or come up with new ideas. The wedge between Farrakhan and mainstream academia on "The Secret Relationship" offers promising ground for neutralizing the 1619 Project as a core election issue. It's not very nice, but if neocons can punch their way to the front of the movement with things they don't actually believe, then they can expect other people to eventually pick up the finer points of their tactics.

Josephbleau said...

"Some Farmers inject sows to cause abortions."
And some newly hired Planned Parenthood BSBA kids try to buy the little piggy fetuses to sell to big Pharma.

Josephbleau said...

"As a population comes out of subsistance existance, they naturally want meat. No matter how some want to spin it, we have a instinctual need for meat. "

No, in all cases male procurement of food is only instrumental for access to pussy.

Francisco D said...

Michael K said... Isn't Foer the guy who published that fake story about driving a tank in Iraq and squashing dogs?

You have a remarkable memory young man!

Josephbleau said...

"D 2 said...

You wonder If this guy ever finds himself on the road to Damascus.

He's constantly on the road to Damascus, just waiting for Paul to show up."

I will say that is a well composed irony.

Josephbleau said...

I wager $100 that my previous post will appear on the blog before 7:15PM this evening. Any takers? (Blog moderating officials are excluded.)

Josephbleau said...

I cancel My Bet because I have heard from none of you in a reasonable time.

BUMBLE BEE said...

Iv'e seen passing reference to this "pandemic" as a set up for "climate catastrophe" lock down control behaviors. The transport industry froze, restaurants closed 39 million workers are broke and feed stock remain hungry. Something's gotta give. In my neck of the woods, pasta beans and rice shelves remain empty in markets. Meats are not sale priced, so it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Gonna be a lot of poor folks not eating. Scary. Still, we gotta find out who is shooting all the toilet paper.

narciso said...




speaking of sows

https://dailycaller.com/2020/05/21/joe-biden-tara-reade-boiled-babies-nation/

cubanbob said...

"The End of Meat Is Here/If you care about the working poor, about racial justice, and about climate change, you have to stop eating animals"

No need to go any further. Whenever you see or hear these progressive buzzwords you know it's just bs on stilts. I

narciso said...

Thats franklin

iowan2 said...

Beef production is not like fowl, or hogs. The difference is their feed. Birds and hogs need grain with added protein. A ground feed product. That lends itself to automatic feeders. Corn,(wheat and other small grains can be used, its an energy per $ equation) So bins full of grain and soybean meal, and your set to feed your confinement operation.
Cattle are ruminants and need roughage for their gut(s) to work. Pregnant cows are must economically pastured for their gestation, and until they come into heat and bred again for and early Feb/March calving season. Then calves and moms stay on pasture until the cows are weened. Calves will stay on pasture until they get into the 500-700lb range, and moved to feed lots to "finish" using grain, Silage and Hay for roughage, and supplemental protein, which a large percentage can come from non protein nitrogen, Urea.

Cattle are the worlds best solar energy converters. The turn sunshine, into protein. (Chlorophyll)

With beef slaughter houses going down due to Covid, fat cattle can be kept on feed and new feeders can stay on pasture. The pain is in extra feed cost. Feeding cattle past their finish weight, ruins feed efficiency, the amount of feed needed to add a pound of meat. The supply chain is much more elastic. For all the reasons above.

wendybar said...

OMFreaking God... Really??? We live in upside down world!!

Michael K said...

Francisco D said...
Michael K said... Isn't Foer the guy who published that fake story about driving a tank in Iraq and squashing dogs?

You have a remarkable memory young man!


Actually, I think ti was Franklin, probably not the same guy,.

Automatic_Wing said...

Great comments by iowan2. Stuff like this is why comment sections are good.

ken in tx said...

God loves BBQ. The smoke is a "sweet savor unto the Lord" Exodus 29:18. Man is made in God's image. Man loves BBQ. Meat!

Lurker21 said...

Jonathan's brother Franklin Foer is a New Republic writer.

It would be hard to say who is more annoying.

Joshua Foer, the third brother, and the parents may be marginally less annoying, since at least they don't make such a big display of themselves.

Mr. Majestyk said...

We got 10 baby leg horn chicks 2 weeks ago. Sadly, four of them (Baby, Candy, Tiger, and Pokey) died within a couple of days. But the other six (Speedy, Smarty, Sweety a/k/a Jumpy, Mini, Sky, and Cow) are growing nicely. I've got to firm up plans for a coop and get building. Given my carpentry experience, I foresee much swearing and cursing in my future.

M said...

This guy has struggled with mental illness since he was a young child. He should not be dictating anything to the rest of humanity that exists in the real world outside of his parent’s wealth bubble.

JAORE said...

Is this the first time the NYT has referred to an abortion as a BAD thing?

Jamie said...

JAORE, I had the same thought: if all the farmers are doing is facilitating sows' elimination of a clump of cells, what's the BFD? Who needs mental health resources for that?

Nichevo said...

I thought the dog-Iraq fables were written by one Scott Thomas Beauchamp, whose wife was somebody who lent him credibility by I guess osmosis or magic. Franklin Foer, J-Saf's brother, was editor of TNR at the time and ate the shit sandwich Beauchamp had prepared for him.

Nichevo said...

Given that the dude who brought us the Althouse bait is fanatically opposed to shechita AND is an acclaimed author, where I'm just poking a hornet's nest, you'd probably want to address his perspective on this issue before mine.


Foer? I didn't even know'er! No, you can have him. Carrion.

Everyone can't laser focus their grudges and resentments, I get that. I would just be hesitant to employ any rhetoric (hypos and devil's advocacy aside) having myself affirmatively saying things I do not believe. He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster.