May 4, 2020

"... used them beautifully... dumped them nicely..."


I don't know what he's talking about or how that #OPENJOECOLDCASE hashtag is doing. I see the top trending hashtag this morning is DON LEMON, and I know what that is....

Anyway.... "used them beautifully... dumped them nicely" — that's pretty cruel. And what the point of stating something "on the record" and then using quotes — "nuts"?

Ah... here's an article explaining what that "Florida Cold Case" is. From Mediaite:
The “Florida Cold Case” here is the death of Lori Klausutis, the 28-year-old intern found dead in Scarborough’s district office when he was still serving as U.S. Congressman for Florida’s 1st Congressional district. An autopsy concluded that Klausutis’ death happened after heart problems caused her to fall and hit her head on a desk in 2001.

Even though there were no indications of foul play or suicide, the tragedy prompted a number of conspiracy theories....
I've got to say, Trump's tweet this morning is some really trashy trash talk. Psycho... Crazy... "nuts"....

222 comments:

1 – 200 of 222   Newer›   Newest»
Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Stress brings out the worst in some people. I hope Trump finds peace after Tuesday, November 3.

Kai Akker said...

Trump's clearly feeling terrible pressure; that's when he gets so defensive. Two months of misery from the CCP virus arrived just when he thought he was on top of the world. Now America and other parts of the world in shambles and who knows the extent of the damage we will see when we try to spread our wings again. "This never should have happened."

MayBee said...

These are my least favorite Trump tweets. I'm not somewhere where I can play the Lemon clip. What does he say?

Danno said...

Matt Gaetz is a much better Congressman than Cup of Joe. Scarborough has developed such an elevated case of TDS he should be put down like a rabid dog.

Temujin said...

Don Lemon's still got a show?

Todd said...

What is it about Obama that upsets him (us? me?)? Maybe that he was promoted WAY above his pay grade and that the only reason he got elected in the first place and then re-elected was the MSM/DNC carrying water for him 24/7. Scandal free admin? What a JOKE! Wife MORE accomplished than Melania, HAH! Hey Don, what has Trump "actually" done to get so under your skin?

MayBee said...

I have. a problem seeing the way Obama was treated by the press vs how Trump is treated. It's not fair to the American people.

rhhardin said...

The lady was Vince Fostered.

David Begley said...

When Comey, Brennan et al get indicted, Obama won’t look so good. Barack ordered the FBI and CIA to spy on the Trump campaign.

JackWayne said...

What is it about Obama? What got under my skin early on was his penchant for giving the finger to people while being photographed. What a silly Man-Child!

Quaestor said...

Stress brings out the worst in some people.

ARM talkin' 'bout hisself agin.

Please try to get over yourself, ARM.

The rest of us have.

Freder Frederson said...

What got under my skin early on was his penchant for giving the finger to people while being photographed. What a silly Man-Child!

Bullshit.

Freder Frederson said...

Barack ordered the FBI and CIA to spy on the Trump campaign.

There is absolutely zero evidence of this.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Quaestor ... talkin' 'bout hisself agin.

As requested by our hostess, let's try to avoid personal attacks on other commenters.

Big Mike said...

Even though there were no indications of foul play or suicide, the tragedy prompted a number of conspiracy theories.... I've got to say, Trump's tweet this morning is some really trashy trash talk.

No indications of suicide, I can buy that. People are not famous for killing themselves by bashing their heads against desks.

But before you so quickly accept that Klausutis had a serious heart issue, you might want to consider that she was a distance runner, and an avid enough runner to be member of a running club (the Northwest Florida Track Club), and she had run an 8K race shortly before her death. Also the medical examiner had his license lifted in two states (Florida and Missouri) for giving false testimony about autopsies he had performed.

The problem for me accepting the finding that Klausutis fractured her skull after suffering a cardiac event is that she'd have to fall forward pretty hard to do that. I'd like to defer to doctors (paging Michael K.!) as to whether that's even possible.

@Althouse, "gullible" includes not looking to see why many people think that there is something smoky about a person's death. Any person's death.

Ralph L said...

Female interns are nothing but trouble.

William said...

I don't think it's four dimensional chess. Mika, Joe, and The Donald really hate each other. All filters are off. No insult is too low....I think this particular insult is un-Presidential but, on the other hand, Donald Trump is President. I suppose this will be good for Morning Joe's ratings. Maybe this is some kind of weird symbiotic relationship.

Michael K said...

Boy, ARM and Freder up early this morning and goofier than usual.

Freder of course won't read this.

The lies, manipulation, disinformation within the FISA application now frame every single report about what the FBI, DOJ and Intel Community were doing. In essence, the fraud within the FISA application transfers into all the media reporting of the New York Times, Buzzfeed, Politico and the Washington Post about the FBI investigation.

As a consequence; and because the reporting was predicated/justified based on the evidence the media was physically holding, but could not admit; all of the FBI FISA lies transfer into the media. As the FISA fraud collapses, so too does the media reporting which was based on the fraud.

The dossier was junk… it infected the FISA application. The FISA application was junk… it was leaked…. and as a consequence infected the media reporting. However, the media cannot admit how they wrongly reported on the FISA lies because they would have to admit they received the FISA through the James Wolfe leak.


This goes right back to Obama and Sally Yates and Susan Rice.

J. Farmer said...

How many times has Don Lemon jumped the shark at this point?

Quaestor said...

What got under my skin early on was his penchant for giving the finger to people while being photographed.

What I found most annoying were his cowardly surreptitious bird flips.

Obama is a large-scale passive-aggressive case study all by himself. His use of the CIA and the FBI against Trump is only the most recent atrocity visited upon the Republic by that backstabbing mutahfuckah. Trump at least is forthright in his trash talk. Trump takes ownership of his deeds. Obama won't even reveal his GPA at Harvard. What a prissy sissy.

Michael K said...

The problem for me accepting the finding that Klausutis fractured her skull after suffering a cardiac event is that she'd have to fall forward pretty hard to do that. I'd like to defer to doctors (paging Michael K.!) as to whether that's even possible.

Skull fractures usually don't kill people. William Holden bled to death from a scalp laceration when drunk do there are bizarre cases.

David Begley said...

With dopey tweets about Morning Joe, I sometimes think Trump will lose. Even to China Joe.

Mika and Joe are nobodies.

traditionalguy said...

“...used them beautifully in the last election, dumped them nicely...” shows that DJT is past playing a game with the Enemy Media and is taking a triumph parade leading them behind his chariot. In his mind the war is over and he has won. Wonder what he knows is coming out soon. Maybe more military jet flyovers of the Dem big cities and arrests of the Obama Admin. Regicides.

wendybar said...

So Klausutis died from Corona Virus?? That's pretty much how they are counting the deaths of people today (even if they didn't) (Got to raise those numbers to get more federal dollars!!!)

gilbar said...

Serious Question

Is Orange County going to stay blue next election? Assuming that California has another election

Fernandinande said...

Lori Klausutis

She was from Niceville, which is having a

Free Shredding Event

"Bring all the unwanted personal documents you can carry and have them shredded free of charge Tuesday, May 5th between 10 am and 12 pm.

Look for the Shred-it truck in the Softball Complex Parking Lot on Campbell Drive."

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Michael K ... goofier than usual.

You may have forgotten this request from our hostess, let's try to avoid personal attacks on other commenters.


zipity said...


Perhaps OGH would prefer Trump respond to the fire hose of hate and hostility routinely aimed at him by the Lame Stream Media© as did the milquetoast Mitt Romney did.

Look how well that worked out for him. As a now forgotten historical figure once advised "Punch back, twice as hard...."

Quaestor said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
J. Farmer said...

As for whatever the conspiracy theory is, I don’t believe it. It’s not possible that there is anything interesting about Joe Scarborough. Except maybe this tidbit from his Wiki: “Scarborough released his debut EP, Mystified, on June 23, 2017. A music video for the title track of the new wave-inspired EP was also released on the same day.” Is that a threat?

David Begley said...

FF

Hey, I was just speculating like the Fake New does 24/7.

Actually, it makes perfect sense. Comey and Brennan weren’t going to break the law unless Barack told them to do it. As another President once said, when the President does something it isn’t against the law. Furthermore, the notes released last week mention the WH. Previously, texts between the two lovers state that the WH wanted to be kept informed.

What did the President know and when did he know it?

Howard said...

look Trump might be a little bit off this morning but it is only because of all of the bad press and the bad things that people are saying about him what do you expect huh?

He's the greatest human being that has ever lived and everyone in the media and the Democrat elite Coastal libtard globalist gangster krowd is trying to tear him down by purposefully making the Coronavirus pandemic and then exaggerating the coronavirus pandemic and then under-exaggerating it causing him to recommend people to commingle too early now he's going to lose the election and he's feeling that bite that panic

It's always everyone else's fault

Quaestor said...

How many times has Don Lemon jumped the shark at this point?

Shark jumping is MSNBC's stock in trade. How else can one account for the salary Comcast pays the "Reverend" Al Sharpton?

Picture the enormous front to logic that the clerisy of Al Sharpton represents. If I were the DM Sharpton could only play an Orc of the Rotting Eye clan.

(OK, ARM. Truce.)

Laslo Spatula said...

Joe and Mika have made a sport out of taking cheap shots at Trump for the last several years.

Trump just threw a brushback pitch.

I am Laslo.

MikeR said...

I wonder if this is in response to Mika's interview of Joe Biden. Perhaps Trump can't afford to have people start thinking of Joe and Mika as the "impartial" TV hosts, since they have been so over-the-top critical of Donald Trump. Russian asset...

J. Farmer said...

Shark jumping is MSNBC's stock in trade. How else can one account for the salary Comcast pays the "Reverend" Al Sharpton?

Al is at least fun to listen to. The only thing that guy ever did well was talk. Dom Lemon is basically the equivalent of giving one of the characters from Mean Girls a cable show. He has mastered the black man art of sounding smart while simultaneously revealing he doesn’t have a clue. He’d be fine if someone with a brain would just write down opinions for him to read aloud.

MayBee said...

I have no idea what used them beautifully, dumped them nicely refers to.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

Democratics say that allegations are true crime.

So - Joe S is guilty.

Matt Sablan said...

"When Comey, Brennan et al get indicted, Obama won’t look so good."

-- Both of those men lied to Congress at a time when lying to Congress allegedly was a high crime and misdemeanor. Nothing happened to them. Nothing will happen to them.

Todd said...

LOL Howard!

Your just still mad that Trump doesn't play Charlie Brown to the MSM/DNC Lucy.

Darn it! He is supposed to just keep taking it like all the other Republicans do! When oh when will he get with the program! Doesn't he know "WE" make the rules around here? {insert foot stomp and poutie face here}

Matt Sablan said...

Obama really is a lucky guy. The FBI did all their illegal and immoral stuff to help him without asking; same with the IRS. Same with the Fast and the Furious Operation.

If it was bad, Obama had no part in it. Just a bunch of people willing to break laws to help the guy out.

robother said...

Joe and Mika aren't worth it. But I must say, the breaking news the past week on just how dirty the FBI and Mueller case against General Flynn was (including compromising his own lawyers) has put me in the blackest mood of the last 4 years. Maybe Trump is experiencing that as well. The thought that Strozk, McCabe, Comey and Brennan will all walk...well its about as dark as The Joker.

J. Farmer said...

@Matt:

Plausible deniability.

James K said...

William Holden bled to death from a scalp laceration when drunk [s]o there are bizarre cases.

Like the husband of Cheryl Sandberg.

Amadeus 48 said...

Welcome to campaign 2020.

Does anybody think Trump is trying to take the spotlight off Slow Joe Biden so he’ll stay in the race? Biden took a lot of torpedoes over the weekend and is listing badly. Trump just went by in a speedboat and mooned MSNBC. CNN is self-destructing with online talent like Don “I got no brains but I am beautiful” Lemon.

Just wait until Trump starts calling him Meadowlark. No disrespect to the Globetrotters great at all. Don Lemon ought to be honored.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

All this Obama hate seems irrelevant to the topic of the post, Trump's psychic meltdown.

Shouting Thomas said...

The CDC’s death count of 67,000 seems to be fudged. It could be interpreted at 37,500 if you count only deaths directly attributed to the virus, or 53,000 is you add in deaths attributed to the virus and pneumonia.

In any event, the 67,000 is 3% of the original estimate of 2.2 million that set off this panic.

Not a single patient has been denied a bed or a ventilator.

If your standard is that President Trump is responsible for the outcome of a pandemic, then he is succeeding spectacularly on the very terms his opposition demanded. 3% of the projected fatalities is a huge win. None of the dire outcomes in terms of hospitals or ventilators has happened.

Trump won. Howard and ARM are simply, extravagantly, wildly wrong.

Ray - SoCal said...

Agree with Laslo mostly.

My guess is there is something recent to trigger the response. On attacks, Trump is a counter puncher.

Matt Sablan said...

"All this Obama hate seems irrelevant to the topic of the post, Trump's psychic meltdown."

-- Eh, "Trump said a mean thing to people who are also mean to him" is a well that has run almost as dry as "Obama's 'scandal free' administration."

J. Farmer said...

All this Obama hate seems irrelevant to the topic of the post, Trump's psychic meltdown

Hating the previous guy is always a useful diversion. Obama was accused of doing it. Bush did it against Clinton. Probably why we have a party turnover in the presidency. You can blame the last guy, and at least half the country will agree with you.

Darkisland said...

Shorter ARM,

SLURP!

your ass sure does taste yummy this morning, Ann.

SLURP, SLURP

John Henry

Shouting Thomas said...

ARM is committing the very ad hominem sin he’s accusing others of using, which is standard for him.

Don’t be taken in by that omniscient sage persona bit he plays. It’s bull.

He’s pretending he can read Trump’s thoughts.

Over the past 3-1/2 years, I’ve learned that the supposedly wildly crazy things that Trump says are usually true.

Remember how insane Trump was for saying that his campaign was under surveillance?

ConradBibby said...

The suggestion that Joe S. had something to do with Klausutis' death is about as serious a question as whether the moon landings were faked or whether 9/11 was an inside job. There's no evidence she was murdered. Moreover, when she died, Scarborough was in D.C.

It's rare that young, fit people drop dead of some unforeseen heart problem or brain malady, but it does happen from time to time. And plenty of people die from striking their heads in some kind of a freak fall. (I worked with a non-elderly, non-disabled guy who broke his neck in a bathroom fall. He lived to tell what happened, so I'm pretty sure Joe Scarborough had nothing to do with it.)

Most of us here despise JS, but full conspiracy retard is never a good look.

Quaestor said...

Al is at least fun to listen to. The only thing that guy ever did well was talk.

Not anymore. Not since Phil Griffin took away his bullhorn.

Amadeus 48 said...

Maybee—Trump was on their show all the time—they thought the exposure would kill him. Instead, he won the election. They immediately turned on a dime, mocking him relentlessly. He returned the favor, and as I recall, publicly cut them down in Palm Beach in December or January after the election.

Like Comey when he let Hillary off and announced that the FBI had miraculously processed all Anthony Wiener’s laptop emails in 4 days, Joe and Mika thought they were killing him, but they helped him.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Darkisland ... your ass sure does taste yummy this morning, Ann.

Strange locution.

Howard said...

I'm glad you like the taste of his bodily fluids, Todd. Donald needs you people now more than ever. It's a tough disgusting job but somebody's got to do it for the cause. Thank God for useful idiots or comedy would be dead.

Gunner said...

Nobody thinks Trump is the best person who ever lived. He is just better than the Obama butt kissers like Lemon, Mika and fake conservative Scarjo. I remember back when Scarjo was still pretending to be a Republican, his intern problem was frequently brought up by lefty websites. Noone cared about denouncing them for conspiracies.

Shouting Thomas said...

So, ARM, I challenge you.

3% of projected fatalities. No patient denied a ventilator or bed.

Your statement that Trump failed is an error, correct?

The stats prove you wrong, correct?

Shouting Thomas said...

No distractions, ARM.

These were the standards the opposition set from the beginning.

I want an answer. Trump delivered magnificently on the terms demanded by the opposition.

Admit it.

MayBee said...

Amadeus- thanks! Is that what Lemon talks about? I can't run his video right now. I don't like video and paywall dependent posts!! I want to know what's going on!

Howard said...

You got to give Al Sharpton his props. He kick the dogshit out of Christopher Hitchens in a debate about atheism. Also Al does look like a werewolf from London his hair is perfect

J. Farmer said...

Not anymore. Not since Phil Griffin took away his bullhorn.

Fair enough. I don’t think I’ve heard him utter a word since his ‘04 presidential campaign. But I still have a soft spot for the guy. Sure he’s a race hustler and a bullshit artist, but I wouldn’t mind having a drink with him.

Quaestor said...

He lived to tell what happened, so I'm pretty sure Joe Scarborough had nothing to do with it.

Call me an idiot. Call me brain-damaged. Call me anything. (Call me a taxi.) But I cannot follow the logic of that argument.

There is such a thing as conspiracy, and there's also conspiracy after the fact. Being in Washington when foul play occurs in Florida does not clear one of all possible criminal involvement.

Like Conrad, I see no evidence of a crime, but then I'm not privy to such important information.

Shouting Thomas said...

The DOW has regained half its lost value.

We're ready to re-open the country. The Mountain West and much of the South has already opened for biz.

So, on the financial level, Trump is also succeeding.

The only holdouts are the states run by Democratic governors, where oddly enough, the vast majority of fatalities occurred.

Todd said...

Howard said...

I'm glad you like the taste of his bodily fluids, Todd. Donald needs you people now more than ever. It's a tough disgusting job but somebody's got to do it for the cause. Thank God for useful idiots or comedy would be dead.

5/4/20, 8:17 AM


What the heck are you talking about? Projection, thy name is Howard? Off your meds again due to the lock-down?

I'm Full of Soup said...

I am surprised that Althouse had never heard of the sudden death of Joe's intern.

J. Farmer said...

He kick the dogshit out of Christopher Hitchens in a debate about atheism.

The source of the famous “those who really believe in God” swipe at Mitt Romney’s Mormonism.

Todd said...

Matt Sablan said...

If it was bad, Obama had no part in it. Just a bunch of people willing to break laws to help the guy out.

5/4/20, 7:59 AM


Well, Obama did often say that the first time he heard of various issues was when he read them in the paper. If you hold a briefing but the President doesn't show up, did it still happen?

Howard said...

As they say all the time on sports talk radio shows Jay farmer "good knowledge"

MBunge said...

1. How is it that people can say/write the most hateful and deranged things about Trump and they’re never accused of “melting down.”

2. To those of you belittling the Scarborough intern thing as a conspiracy theory, have you heard of this person called “Jeffrey Epstein?”

3. The real point of the intern story, which Markos Moulitsas brought up and got banned from MSNBC for doing so, is how no one was EVER allowed to bring it up, even as similar conspiracy theories are openly indulged for others like Gary Condit.

Mike

Howard said...

"Used beautifully and dump nicely" could describe all of his previous marriages assignations.

Darkisland said...

Re ventilators,

Remember how there weren't going to be enough of them? As someone else pointed out, that turned out to be a lie. Probably a lie, in error for sure.

Now, 3 months into this meggillah, or medical "experts" don't even know whether they work or not.

Some very high percentage, close to 100%,of kung flu patients put on respirators died. Did the respirator help them or did it hasten their deaths? The "experts" simply don't know.

I wonder if the fact that putting them on a respirator earms the hospital an extra $39m per patient has anything to do with it? That's $39m revenue whether they lived or died.

John Henry

stevew said...

"How many times has Don Lemon jumped the shark at this point?"

Seems to me one can only do this once, if we are being consistent with the metaphor (and Happy Days reference). But I do understand your point that Don Lemon is trying to re-energize his woefully under-performing show, and he hasn't yet completely faded into talking head oblivion.

Quaestor said...

Sure he’s a race hustler and a bullshit artist, but I wouldn’t mind having a drink with him.

Whatever soft spot you may have will probably harden to Mohs 9.5 were you to read this book. What was done to Steven Pagones was inhuman.

Sharpton isn't a clown sent to amuse you. Like Tommy DeVito he's an agent of chaos.

frenchy said...

It's good to see Trump is still playing 5-D chess, and those that can't even play it in 2-D are still muttering and clutching their pearls.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

Allegations against the R are real.

Against the D? the media will wipe that clean. with a cloth.

oh and ...

"Mueller wasn't appointed to get to the bottom of the Russian collusion conspiracy theory. After Comey was fired, Mueller was appointed to help FBI and DOJ cover up the evidence of their coup and all the crimes they committed running it."

-Sean Davis

J. Farmer said...

similar conspiracy theories are openly indulged for others like Gary Condit.

The Gary Condit/Chandra Levy story was one of Mickey Kaus’ early blogging obsessions. He got quite paranoid there for a moment. But that’s one of Mickey’s functions in the ecosystem. He’s a conduit for bubbling under stories to break through to the mass audience. He broke the Journolist story, and he was early to the John Edwards’ love child scandal. Juiceboxers like Ezra Klein and Matt Yglesias pilloried him for it.

whitney said...

Experts. What a joke. Worldwide death rate is less than half of 1/10000 of a percent.
And a bunch of pod people will jump up and say it's because everyone's sheltering in place but that's not true, tops 50% of the people are but I'm out everyday and the thick of it with a whole bunch of other people and none of us are getting sick it's really weird. My mother did test positive for it she's 84 and in poor health had a 99 to a hundred degrees temperature for about a week and felt kind of crappy. She's all over it now and I have to admit I probably gave it to her. I never had any symptoms

Quaestor said...

He [kicked] the dogshit out of Christopher Hitchens in a debate about atheism.

You certainly are an astute cookie, Howard.

Anyone interested in checking the veracity of Howard's observation ought to invest 90 minutes here. I believe the viewer will find the only "dogshit" is piled under Sharpton's chair.

Char Char Binks, Esq. said...

A murder investigation should boost Joe’s ratings.

J. Farmer said...

Whatever soft spot you may have will probably harden to Mohs 9.5 were you to read this book. What was done to Steven Pagones was inhuman.

I’m well aware of the Tawana Brawley hoax. Being a good guy isn’t a prerequisite to having a drink. Sharpton’s sins don’t even hold a candle to Obama’s.

Ann Althouse said...

"I am surprised that Althouse had never heard of the sudden death of Joe's intern."

I could have *heard* of it but forgotten it.

Why should that have possession of my brain cells?

The trash that people keep in their head! Doesn't anyone forget things any more. It's like you're a pack of hoarders. Let it go. It does not spark joy.

cubanbob said...

Sharpton should be strapped into the electric chair at Sing Sing for Freddy's Mart. Or at least doing life without parole for all of his crimes. I wish Congress would unbundle cable so I wouldn't have to subsidies CNN, MSNBC and other garbage networks. To be fair that would also delight the progs since they wouldn't have to subsidize Fox.

Ann Althouse said...

I didn't even remember that he'd been a Congressman.

MBunge said...

“The Gary Condit/Chandra Levy story was one of Mickey Kaus’ early blogging obsessions.”

And, of course, there is Andrew Sullivan’s legitimately deranged obsession with Sara Palin’s uterus. All that kind of stuff is fair game for so many others but Scarborough having a dead intern on his resume somehow becomes That Which Must Not Be Named.

Mike

Quaestor said...

Being a good guy isn’t a prerequisite to having a drink.

Agreed, but he who would sup with the Devil must have a long spoon.

(Or something like that.)

iowan2 said...

AA, wins the cruelest comment award this morning!

Michael K said...

Sharpton’s sins don’t even hold a candle to Obama’s.

I tend to agree with this. Sharpton has been a clown since he was child "preacher."

I still don't know the real story with Obama. Where did he come from ? Who steered him from Occidental to Columbia to HLS ?

He really is an enigma.

Quaestor said...

It's like you're a pack of hoarders. Let it go. It does not spark joy.

Yeah! Tell it, sistah! For that, you need two sticks and a Boy Scout.

Iman said...

Al is at least fun to listen to. The only thing that guy ever did well was talk

“but resist we much… we must… and we will much… about… that… be committed.”

Birkel said...

ARM hopes Trump finds peace after his re-election.
I appreciate those non-partisan thoughts for the president.

Good for ARM.

iowan2 said...

Sharpton. Shameless, absolute shameless. Never seen another person that can blot out his past they way he is allowed. The most memorable for me? Years back he was under IRS audit?? He was explaining during some inteview, he had no assets, no cash. He owned nothing. Not the house he lived in, not the suit he wore, not the watch hanging off his wrist. He possessed nothing. All was provided by the organization he worked for. All with a straight face...the interviewer, I mean had the straight face. Al's was always that way, lying is like breathing to that man. Involuntary, muscle movement.

Laslo Spatula said...

Twitter is where we get to see the social media sausage getting made.

Not pretty, but in the end there are a few weiners all set for Anderson Cooper and Jake Tapper.

I am Laslo.

TJM said...

Howard, ARM, and Inga,


How can you honestly being pushing Senile Joe Biden? You have zero intellectual or moral standing if you are. You should also be very frightened that the Dem Party and the Media are carrying Joe's water.

hawkeyedjb said...

What Trump is doing has nothing to do with chess, 2-3-4- or 5-dimension. It's nonsense, punching so far below him. It's like kicking chihuahuas. Undignified and pointless. Giving status to a couple of minor-league television yappers.

iowan2 said...

Heart attack to a young dedicated runner? Jim Fixx

On a side note, concerning running. Tiger Woods said in an interview this weekend, he deeply regrets running. 30 miles per week. It has ruined his back and knees.

Lesson? Simple. Listen to your grandmother. All things in moderation.

hawkeyedjb said...

"Tiger Woods said in an interview this weekend, he deeply regrets running. 30 miles per week. It has ruined his back and knees."

Me too. And I don't have a billion-dollar bank account to console me in my arthritic old age.

Big Mike said...

Doesn't anyone forget things any more. It's like you're a pack of hoarders. Let it go. It does not spark joy.

May I remind the law professor emerita that if the case of Lori Klausutis is homicide then there is no statute of limitations?

J. Farmer said...

@Michael K:

He really is an enigma.

I never really got into the Manchuria candidate stuff with Obama. He always struck me as a rather dull technocratic kind of guy. He really did seem like a blank canvas on which his supporters and detractors projected. But of all the whacky theories, I think D’Souza’s Kenyan anti-colonialist was the most hilarious. How D’Souza ever got a reputation as a serious conservative thinker is beyond me.

Inga said...

Trump’s voice isn’t always soothing, is it? It’s bitter, hateful and spiteful and with the stress he’s under he’s not keeping that part of himself under wraps. He sounds like he is the one who is unwell. Things will only get more interesting the closer we come to November. Also, is there is no conspiracy theory that Trumpists won’t glom onto?

hawkeyedjb said...

"Also, is there is no conspiracy theory that Trumpists won’t glom onto?"

It's not a good look for anti-Trumpers to be yakking on about conspiracy theories. The media and congress have made their lunch on Russia-Russia-Russia for the last 4 years. Trump may not elevate the public discourse, but let's not forget that it was pretty much in the gutter even before he came on the scene.

Pookie Number 2 said...

Also, is there is no conspiracy theory that Trumpists won’t glom onto?

Russia

iowan2 said...

Morning Joe? I watched him whenever I had the chance. Pre Retirement, that was rare, as I woke 5 to 5:30, shower, breakfasts, morning local news weather, and out the door no later than 6:30 earlier "in season". But always thought he balanced out the loony left. Then of course, When they would have Trump on during the campaign, it was like a slow motion train wreck, Joe and his paramour, sweat on their brow attempting to keep Trump on point, and/or get him cornered into making a statement the wanted so bad they could taste it.

But now? I noticed this morning they fell completely off my hulu recommendations for whats on live now.
hulu has some algorithm that puts your top three live shows at the top of the list for any hour you turn the TV on. Morning Joe used to be #1 at 6 to 8, but it has become so unwatchable when I would select it, and watch to see what was going on, I rarely lasted more than 1-2 minutes. Now its not even on my list.

I'm Full of Soup said...

Joy? There is no fun in that. Most of us here tend to be curmudgeons. Have you failed to notice that too?

Pookie Number 2 said...

I hope Trump finds peace after Tuesday, November 3.

Me too, but widespread and hysterical Democratic dishonesty suggests that his re-election will be poorly received, especially by the brainless types that unquestionably swallow intentional media falsehoods.

Inga said...

“It's not a good look for anti-Trumpers to be yakking on about conspiracy theories.”

It’s only the flu.

iowan2 said...

Inga bemoaning conspiracy theories! Really just now!

Documents released last week show the IC conclusion that Russia interfered with the election and was attempting to aid President Trump, show none of it is supported by any evidence.
That's DC speak for, "complete fabrication".

Amadeus 48 said...

The great Harry Carey chacked out after falling (probably a few too many beers, too many times, in his eponymous restaurant.

Shouting Thomas said...

Inga the Russia collusion loon ranting about conspiracies!

Commit yourself to the psyche ward, Inga. It’s your only hope.

Next up, Inga the pathological liar ranting about other people lying!

alanc709 said...

O.T.- apparently French news site are reporting that a backdated coronavirus test showed a positive result from last December 27. So none of the models are even close to accurate.

Lurker21 said...

My guess was that Joe and Mika used Trump to boost their ratings and then dumped him, because they couldn't believe he actually got elected and didn't agree with him at heart and knew that their audience didn't either. Or something happened, maybe at Mar-A-Lago. Something personal that nobody is talking about. Most likely, they were using each other, as people in the political and media games do, but the president's tweet saying that he dumped them makes me more not less convinced that it was the other way around. President Trump definitely seems like he's the kind of person who always wants to be seen as the dumper, not the dumpee.

Quaestor said...

Also, is there is no conspiracy theory that Trumpists won’t glom onto?

[Insert spit take here]

Drago said...

Collusion Conspiracy Truther Inga: "Trump’s voice isn’t always soothing, is it? It’s bitter, hateful and spiteful and with the stress he’s under he’s not keeping that part of himself under wraps. He sounds like he is the one who is unwell. Things will only get more interesting the closer we come to November."

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

OMG!

Inga is doing the "Walls are closing in" thing! Again!

You knew Inga couldnt help herself even after her 5 straight years of conspiracy lies have been exposed.

Inga will only get more conspiratorial and crazy as November gets closer.

Count on it.

hombre said...

This is Trump doing the “turnabout is fair play” thing to dump on his calumnious detractors. It doesn’t look any better on him than it does on them. It’s a mistake. Scarborough and Mika are nothing.

Lurker21 said...


Context matters with tweets like this. Joe has been having meltdowns about Trump on a regular schedule. This is just Trump responding to the last few, more or less in kind, but it can be made to look like something out of the ordinary, a breakdown on the president's part. It isn't. Just part of a cycle that's been going on between the two of them for three years.

I don't know what kind of a congressman Scarborough was. Probably, to judge by who he is now, he was lousy. Matt Gaetz, though, can make even people who agree with him shudder a little. He projects too much the privileged, opportunistic rich boy image that Republicans want to avoid.

Dinesh D'Souza, also shudderworthy. His family left Goa around the time the Indians invaded the Portuguese colony. So he's a victim of Indian imperialism who sees himself as a victim of anti-colonialism and assumes that Obama shares his obsession with something he calls "anti-colonialism." He doesn't understand that whatever dreams Obama got from his father aren't as important as other influences in his life. D'Souza shouldn't have gone to prison, but he seems like a rank opportunist, who doesn't think very deeply but just tells people whatever he thinks they want to hear.

J. Farmer said...

He doesn't understand that whatever dreams Obama got from his father aren't as important as other influences in his life.

Agree. Also, Dreams From My Father is basically a description of how Obama formed a black American identity despite having no connection to such an identity. Oddly, he seems to have succeeded. Although some of Obama's authenticity problems were acknowledged around the start of his first term, he is now almost universally adored within the black community.

Birkel said...

I assume Trump is once again hoping to suck all the non-Winnie-Xi-Flu oxygen out of the air, if there is a purpose at all.

I do not assume there is a strategy.

Ann Althouse said...

"Joy? There is no fun in that. Most of us here tend to be curmudgeons. Have you failed to notice that too?"

I "fail" to read a lot of the commenters... in that I scroll right by them because I can see that they're no fun but a bunch of sourpusses going back and forth over the same old bullshit. Get a clue! Pounding out words does not make you readable. The idea that I'm "noticing" you because you're here in my space demanding to be looked at is todderthink.

Howard said...

Obama married into his black credentials.

TobyTucker said...

I still think Scarborough expected to get some sort of policy position in the Trump administration. (If you watch the show, he thinks he's a real operator, constantly giving political advice that, to my knowledge, NOBODY has ever followed) And when that didn't happen, that's when he turned on Trump.

Wince said...

Freder Frederson said...
"Barack ordered the FBI and CIA to spy on the Trump campaign."

There is absolutely zero evidence of this.


FBI official texted 'POTUS wants to know everything we're doing': report
The Hill BY MAX GREENWOOD - 02/07/18 11:45 AM EST

The exchange, in which Strzok wrote that Obama "wants to know everything we’re doing," was included in a report released Tuesday by Sen. Ron Johnson (R-Wis.) and Republican staff on the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

hawkeyedjb said...
Me too. And I don't have a billion-dollar bank account to console me in my arthritic old age.


I also have sports related arthritis, more from playing pickup basketball on concrete courts for years than from running. Try swimming. I have had no joint issues from swimming regularly. The biggest problem in this lockdown for me has been the loss off access to my local swimming pool, which makes it very hard to retain aerobic fitness.

Rosalyn C. said...

I'd also forgotten that Joe served in Congress, never knew about the intern's death. The reminder is a nice counterbalance to the online persona Joe has created of being immaculate.

Unknown said...

Maybe in his own weird and quirky way, PDJT is persuading us to be more cynical and circumspect about the leaders we elect. In his case, though, actions speak louder than words. Because with all his faults, President Trump going the extra mile to secure borders, push against globalism and identity politics, appoint conservative judges and cheer-lead for the USA is far superior than what the Democratic party has to offer.

cubanbob said...

Inga said...
“It's not a good look for anti-Trumpers to be yakking on about conspiracy theories.”

It’s only the flu."

Thank God it isn't the Spanish Flu. Not a good look for the anti-Trumper's who relied on models that predicted 2.2 million deaths in the US. It appears that half the number of the Covid 19 deaths are actually directly Covid 19 deaths. The rest being deaths wrongly attributed to the virus or deaths of people who died of other causes who also were infected with the virus. Less would have died if doctors were more proactive in using Dr. Trump's cocktail at the onset of the symptoms instead of waiting until the patient is in the ICU and on a ventilator.

J. Farmer said...

Obama married into his black credentials.

That and the black church were his tickets to entry. He has practically no experience of African-Americans before he was an adult. And I imagine his interactions with Altgeld Gardens‘ residents were instructive.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

I can never look at or think about Joe and Mika without bring this image up in my mind...and then laugh a lot at them.

Look A-Like of the day!

I don't think that two more slimy and clueless people exist.

rcocean said...

Trump has every reason to dislike the press, and he gains points with his followers by showing. His m.o. has been to counter-attack against his critics, and people like that he fights back and doesn't "take it" like Bush-II and mittens did.

Mitt Romney LIKES the Liberal Media. He created a fake twitter account and would follow media reporters and tell them "Mitt Romney ia a great guy". He's written WaPo Op-eds attacking the sitting Republican President. Mittens wants the press to love him.

Trump has gotten 92% negative coverage for almost 5 years. And like the Lincoln said of Grant "I like this man, he fights".

J. Farmer said...

Because with all his faults, President Trump going the extra mile to secure borders, push against globalism and identity politics, appoint conservative judges and cheer-lead for the USA is far superior than what the Democratic party has to offer.

I agree it’s far superior but it’s still woefully lacking. Trump is a good campaigner; he’s not a very god executive. He has made pretty consistently bad staffing choices. He lacks a confidante with institutional knowledge. He’s shown no real skill as a negotiator. The primary skill of his original occupation, real estate developer, is the ability to bullshit the right people at the right time while you fake it til you make it.

rcocean said...

Joe Scarborough is a very weird man. A total fake. He went from a New Gingrich supporting Congressman in the 1990s to a Liberal MSM talking head in the 2010's. Another "Life long Republican" presented to us by the Left-wing MSM. The death of his congressional intern/aide was very odd and has never been adequately explained. Looking forward to pictures of Joe with a "Live boy".

rcocean said...

Althouse: Look at me! I'm an airplane, see my wings, wheee.

Char Char Binks, Esq. said...

Strzok saying what Obama wanted isn’t the same as Obama saying, or wanting it. It’s not nearly as bad as the second and third-hand accounts of what Trump said/thought, but it’s akin to them. I believe Strzok, but it’s not proof.

Yancey Ward said...

Scarborough and Brzenzinski were major Trump promoters before and during the Republican primary season. Trump got enormous free media coverage from the left, a lot of it very positive before it became obvious he was actually going to win the Republican nomination rather than be forced to run third party.

So, yes, Trump used both of them like a sex doll. I like to imagine them late on November 8th 2016 thinking to themselves, "I hope no one remembers our role in tonight's election."

Ice Nine said...

>>Big Mike said...
The problem for me accepting the finding that Klausutis fractured her skull after suffering a cardiac event is that she'd have to fall forward pretty hard to do that. I'd like to defer to doctors (paging Michael K.!) as to whether that's even possible.<<

It is very possible. If she had a cardiac event that led to a fall, she would likely have had a free fall to the desk resulting in an unprotected blow to her head, which hit the edge of the desk - a very focused impact. That is handily enough force to cause a skull fracture and more than enough to cause a subdural hematoma, which is what killed her. I've seen plenty of subdurals with less impact; it always impressed me how little it actually took, in fact. Mortality rate of subdural hematoma in someone her age (28) is about 20%, incidentally.

Yancey Ward said...

And, yes, it is much more likely that the intern was killed in some kind of altercation than not. This is simple common sense.

Yancey Ward said...

Let's suppose your daughter was found dead in similar circumstances- what would you be willing to believe happened?

Char Char Binks, Esq. said...

“... better looking than you... “.

Only a woman or a gay man would care much about that, Dawn.

Kai Akker said...

"Tiger Woods said in an interview this weekend, he deeply regrets running. 30 miles per week. It has ruined his back and knees."

Is that what he said?

OT, with a link. ESPN got the whole story a few years ago, regarding how much damage Tiger did to himself physically playing war-game exercises with Navy SEALs, thanks to over-indulgent officers. What caused him to try to keep up with them is a matter of speculation, but his father had just recently passed away and his father had been a Green Beret.

http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/15278522/how-tiger-woods-life-unraveled-years-father-earl-woods-death

LA_Bob said...

Trump could be a lot more selective in the battles he fights. In this instance the tweet just seems stupid, spiteful, and petty. It demeans him and the office he holds. And it jeopardizes his chances of re-election. That means giving Senile Joe or Crooked Hillary or god-knows-who-else a shot at the worst possible time. Not smart on Trump's part.

Trump is absolutely correct that you have to fight back. I love that he doesn't genuflect to the press like most all the political class. But, there's such a thing as overdoing it.

Drago said...

Yancey Ward: "Let's suppose your daughter was found dead in similar circumstances- what would you be willing to believe happened?"

Well that depends, doesn't it?

Lets say, for instance, that your bright, beautiful 20's age daughter was found dead from drowning in an overturned sedan in a body of water below a small wooden bridge on Chappaquiddick Island.

In cases like that, I'm sure its not surprising at all that a well known Senators family with deep connections would get that body removed as quickly as possible to a more "controlled" environment and the Senator's family would have high ranking Catholic officials come to the grieving family and tell them its a sin to do horrible autopsy things and/or dig up the body after the burial to further any investigation.

Then there would be tremendous social pressure on the grieving family to shut their stupid yaps while the democrats construct a fantasy scenario to maintain the political viability of the Senator for future campaigns.....and then the entire dem party and media would spend years lauding this "Brave and Heroic" Fighter for America's Women...up to this very day.

Why, those same dems/lefties might even be so confident of their ability to get away with manslaughter (in the middle of 5th Avenue or similar) that lefty columnists for the New York Times might even pen articles with amazing lines and sentiments like along the lines of had Mary Joe Kopechne survived she would have supported what Teddy had done.

Amadeus 48 said...

Maybee— I can’t tolerate Don “Meadowlark” Lemon, but he appeared to be launching a think piece addressed to President Trump expounding the Meadowlark’s theories as to why and how Obama is superior to Trump in every way. It reminded me of Franz Liebkind’s comparison of Hitler and Churchill in The Producers: “Hitler was better looking than Churchill, he was a better dancer than Churchill, he was a better painter than Churchill...”

Don Lemon is failing and flailing.

Francisco D said...

Howard said... Obama married into his black credentials.

Obama had an established group of Chicago political activists as mentors, including Bill Ayers, Bernandine Dohrn and Community Psychology professors. I knew a few of these people. They struck me as having the same superficial intelligence as Obama and were committed Saul Alinsky followers.

He was their golden child. All they had to do was to turn him into a Black man.

iowan2 said...

Trump could be a lot more selective in the battles he fights. In this instance the tweet just seems stupid, spiteful, and petty. It demeans him and the office he holds. And it jeopardizes his chances of re-election.

Yea...Trump has been doing it wrong since he came down the Golden Escalator. That's why is not President...whoops, no, that's way he is President, because...no that can't be right...I'll get back to you

Birkel said...

iowan2 (and some others),
Everything experiences diminishing marginal returns.
There are no exceptions.

The question is where we are on the curve.

(And to be a little more technical, there is a temporal aspect to the diminishing. And that varies too.)

J. Farmer said...

He was their golden child. All they had to do was to turn him into a Black man.

This would be more convincing if not for Obama’s actual record. He was fairly neoliberal in his economic policy, and he was highly interventionist abroad. His signature domestic policy was a massive subsidy to the health insurance industry. It’s long been acknowledged that from a left wing perspective, Obama’s presidency was long on hope and short on change.

Gk1 said...

"He has made pretty consistently bad staffing choices. He lacks a confidante with institutional knowledge"

Farmer, you are aware that Trump is saddled with swamp creatures to pick from, yes? It's even a point of pride by liberals that they shame and hound any "respectable" official not to ever work in a Trump administration and this is Trump's fault?

Other than his family and maybe Pompeo, he has no one he can rely on. Good god, look at FBI director Chris Wray who remarkably went through the confirmation process unscathed. I wonder why? I'' concede Trump has had a few clunkers for picks but they have made it impossible to operate like any other administration in our history.

J. Farmer said...

Yea...Trump has been doing it wrong since he came down the Golden Escalator. That's why is not President...whoops, no, that's way he is President, because...no that can't be right...I'll get back to you

I'm Chevy Chase, and you're not.

I honestly do not understand this point. Being good at running for president is not the same thing as being good at being president.

TJM said...

J. Farmer,

That’s all Obozo the Magnificent was good at, running for President, unless you think losing over 1,000 Dem elective offices in 2010 is an accomplishment

J. Farmer said...

Farmer, you are aware that Trump is saddled with swamp creatures to pick from, yes?

That is not entirely true. I agree that that is a general difficulty for anyone who claims that are going to "change Washington" (they won't). It's curious that you named Pompeo, who I think is a terrible Secretary of State, since his only qualification is being a groveling yes-man. Trump is 73 years old, and the only person he can trust is his 39-year-old birdbrained son-in-law? Trump is further hindered by the fact that he seems to have no real platform beyond whatever plays well to his target audience. As best I can tell, Trump was a Rockefeller Republican who didn't like "free" trade. His foreign policy is incoherent, and we have yet to see an immigration plan 3.5 years into his first term. But Jared was still working on it last I heard.

Gk1 said...

Smug, always the winner of every argument never made. ;-P

J. Farmer said...

@TJM:

That’s all Obozo the Magnificent was good at, running for President, unless you think losing over 1,000 Dem elective offices in 2010 is an accomplishment

I think the Great Recession played some part in that, and the Tea Party movement, which galvanized voter participation, was at least partly in response to TARP, which predated Obama. However, I grant that domestic efforts on Obamacare and the Stimulus were also very controversial. But regardless of your opinion on the policies, Obama was a pretty competent political operator, though not as good as Bill Clinton. Obama's worst instinct was his strategy to seemingly rise above partisanship by pushing against each side. Clinton's triangulation was much more effective.

J. Farmer said...

@Gk1:

Smug, always the winner of every argument never made. ;-P

Oh, my bad. I could've sworn someone had written, "Other than his family and maybe Pompeo, he has no one he can rely on."

narciso said...

the medical examiner in that case, lost his license, wouldn't that be reason to review the case, it's always curious how they leace have the story out,

TJM said...

J. Farmer,

By 2010 the Great Recession was over, at least according to the media.

I think Obama got his head handed to him in 2010 because he was not an effective leader (except for himself). Obamacare scrapped by with NO Republican votes and using legerdemain of the most ham-handed kind. He was also an arrogant prick, with nothing to be arrogant about.

Obama NEVER helped a single Dem politician get elected. He would only show his face in heavily Dem weighted areas. Obama received a daily tongue bath from the media which really did not help him in the end. Adulation breeds incompetence because your positions are never challenged.

Now he resides in his palace by the sea, strange, since it violates all environmental and climate change "principles."

Ray - SoCal said...

I am surprised Trump has gotten as much done as he has.
>Trump is saddled with swamp creatures

Looking back:

1. No Recess Appointments
2. CIA / FBI / DOJ doing their best to get him to resign
2. First two years of House under Ryan, Passive Aggressive
4. First two years of Senate - McCain Passive Aggressive
5. No Honeymoon. Press has been after Trump since day 1 of his administration
6. Huge amount of Obama Moles trying to hurt Trump
7. Lots of Never Trumpers trying to hurt Trump.
8. Intelligence Agencies, NSA particularly, full of anti Trump people. Grennel is finally cleaning that up.
9. Senate Democrats slow going on appointments. And McConnell has been allowing it. It was only AFTER Trump knocked off 3 Incumbent Democratic Senators, that the Senate did more for Trump. Senate is full of GOPe that only go along with Trump because they have to.
10. Going through Impeachment
11. Surviving a Special Investigator - Mueller
12. Sessions was sidelined - beautiful political hit job making that happen, until Trump appointed Barr.
13. Look at what is coming out that has been hidden for 3 years by the FBI. So the current head of the FBI, Wray, appears to be another swamp creature.
14. Having his DNI Nominee, Flynn, taken out with trumped up charges.

doctrev said...

J. Farmer said...
His foreign policy is incoherent

5/4/20, 11:19 AM

I'm going to drill down on this, because even as an amateur observer I think Donald Trump's foreign policy is almost -too- coherent. You don't want to be terribly predictable, as I generally think he is. Anyways:

1) Make America Great Again
2) Hit China.
3) Hit China! (and support Japan, Taiwan, South Korea, the Philippines, Hong Kong... North Korea? Did someone screw with this list?)
4) Support Israel and Saudi Arabia, attack Iran.
5) Wreck the EU.
6) Write a new North American free trade deal. I mean, if we have time.

In general, the agencies that are most "ineptly" run are filled with resistance bureaucrats, so there isn't any sufficient management strategy besides firing them all- and then you arrest a goodly number of them. This is a major problem when you consider that example agencies are the State Department, the FBI, the CIA, and the DOJ itself. Leaving aside the fact Congress and the courts will probably declare that the President can't actually fire anyone, though I imagine we'll cross that bridge if we come to it.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

What would be the point of wrecking the EU?

Dr Weevil said...

doctrev (11:51am):
You (like just about everyone else) forget the greatest achievement of Trump's foreign policy. Obama stood idly by while ISIS or ISIL or whatever you want to call them seized half of Syria and a third of Iraq, slaughtered Christians and Yazidis and Iraqi soldiers by the tens of thousands, and proudly sold women as sex slaves in open markets. Our allies did most of the fighting on the ground, but Trump certainly helped them totally crush ISIS. The only territory they now hold is a few underground acres on the Turkish border, and they can't even stick their heads out of their caves to look around without getting hit by drones. It's an amazingly successful reversal of Obama's pathetically incompetent Mideast policies, and the cost in U.S. (also allied) lives has been very low.

J. Farmer said...

@Ray - SoCal:

I'll grant you all the obstructionism, but it doesn't change my assessment of Trump's weaknesses. In fact, given the obstructionism, the consequences of Trump's weaknesses have been magnified. To take one example, the Paul Ryan legislative agenda, where was Trump denouncing Ryan and using his bully pulpit to call for a more populist agenda. Ryan's two biggest legislative achievements, lower marginal tax rates and more defense spending, were supported by Trump. We don't have to consider how Trump would have reacted to Ryan's efforts to reform entitlements since they died in the Senate.

Trump bungled the government shutdown, admitted on camera that he was willing to take the blame for the shutdown, and then ended it by giving up. He gave away a big Democratic wish list item in exchange for Democratic support for the creation of the Space Force. What on that list explains why Trump said he wanted immigrants to come "in the largest numbers ever"? The area where the president has the greatest degree of latitude, foreign policy, has not been reassuring. We have more troops in the middle east now than before. What are we doing in Syria? He doubled down on two Obama-era positions--arm sales to the Saudis and support for their war on Yemen.

J. Farmer said...

@doctrev:

3) Hit China! (and support Japan, Taiwan, South Korea, the Philippines, Hong Kong... North Korea? Did someone screw with this list?)

Trump's "phase one" trade deal increased American dependence on China. The US-South Korean relationship has been damaged by Trump's ridiculous demand that the South Koreans "pay more," as if US troops are a bought and paid for mercenary force.

4) Support Israel and Saudi Arabia, attack Iran.

In this case, our "support" for Saudi Arabia has largely consisted of blindingly backing MBS and all of his reckless behavior. The Saudis are stuck in a quagmire in Yemen, and their behavior has primarily succeeded in wrecking the country and empowering radical Sunni forces. Their attempt to diplomatically isolate Qatar went nowhere. We are as far away from a new deal with Iran as when Trump took office, and there has clearly been no restoration of deterrence.

narciso said...

Obama succeeded in fundamentally transforming more of the country than we thought possible, he did as much to punish israel and reward iran, sow antagonism against law enforcement, extort settlements from subprime players that went to a slush fund for progressive forces,
plant minefields in the bureaucracy, at state defense and the company, transform the cdc away from epidemic containment to just another woke social welfare agency,

J. Farmer said...

@Dr Weevil:

You (like just about everyone else) forget the greatest achievement of Trump's foreign policy. Obama stood idly by while ISIS or ISIL or whatever you want to call them seized half of Syria and a third of Iraq, slaughtered Christians and Yazidis and Iraqi soldiers by the tens of thousands, and proudly sold women as sex slaves in open markets.

Obama did worse than simply stand idly by. He actively encouraged it to happen by supporting insurgent forces in Syria to wage a violent campaign against the government. Ironically, the removal of Assad was seen as a positive as it would weaken a major Iranian ally in the region and break the so called "Shia crescent." And once ISIS emerged, the US absurdly remained committed to its anti-Assad position while also fighting Assad's primary enemy.

Stv30 said...

Joy>Deplorable Todderthink {sic}

Lyle Smith said...

How can the swamp ever be cleaned up if someone like Trump doesn't fight fire with fire? Is fighting fire with fire consider "nuts" or "crazy"?

narciso said...

the Saudis get involved in yemen, about every 30 years, from nawaf Obaid's grandfather's conquest of asir, baha and Najran, considering what happened two generations later, probably not a smart move, then in the 60s, they fought against Nasser's proxies, in the 90s there was the civil war, that involved many of the Afghan Arabs, which would eventually turn against Saleh and King Fahd,

narciso said...

that move would benefit sunni islamists, like the Syrian franchise of al queda, nusra front, like the Ansar al sharia in Libya, and Tunisia, and aqim in Algeria, same with boko haram,

narciso said...

it's arguable that only removing bin laden, allowed Zawahiri to franchise operations from south asia, to west Africa, something general Flynn noted and was dismissed out of hand for,

narciso said...

the encourage of the toppling of Mubarak, qadaffi and bin ali, was another negative much like carter going ahead with letting the shah and somoza fall and a power vacuum arise,

rehajm said...

Doesn't anyone forget things any more. It's like you're a pack of hoarders. Let it go. It does not spark joy.

Tokimeku! I shall cherish this statement for sparking joy...

Dust Bunny Queen said...

What would be the point of wrecking the EU?

To star with:

Create open markets and better trade agreements...to start. Negotiations between countries based on their individual needs, products, resources..... instead of a bunch of elitist un-elected bureaucrats in Belgium ruling by fiat.

Ray - SoCal said...

J Farmer

Yemen is a mess, unfortunately the Saudi's need to live with it on their border. And the Iranian's are doing a low cost way to keep the pot simmering. Al Qaeda was already strong in. Yemen is a failed state. I don't see Yemen as a US problem or concern.

On selling arms to Saudi's, so what. Either they buy from the US, or someone else. I don't see it as in the US interest to not support the Saudi's. I am VERY aware of the Saudi's support for their brand of Islam, especially after the Mecca Siege, as a way to buy off rebels in the country.

Trump is moving the US away from it's our job to save the world, and make it a better place. He is not a Wilsonian, but more of a Jacksonian with a bit of Hamiltonian. My guess is your more of a Jeffsonian.

On Syria, US is more out of it and the amount of push back Trump got surprised me. He has made it more of an Iran, Russia, and Turkey's problem. Not ours. I wish the US would move our Nukes from Turkey.

Afghanistan, I wish we were more out of it. Trump is going that direction, it is hard.

Lots of areas that Trump could have done better.

He also renegotiated NAFTA, and is actually building a wall. So many US Presidents talked about this, and did nothing. I have a lot of anger about McCain with his commercial, "Just Build the Dang Wall". So many Republicans talk a great game (Trey Goudy, Ryan, McCain, and Lindsay Graham to name a few), and do nothing once elected. The amount of corruption in DC is amazing.

Stuff I wish Trump did more of:

1. Cutting Red Tape
2. Getting the Navy Reformed
3. Getting the CDC / FDA reformed
4. Getting US footprint abroad reduced
5. F-35 - canceling as done to the F111, that was replaced with the F-16, A-10, F-18, etc instead of one aircraft that did everything.
6. Reforming NASA - It's not welfare program for Boeing.
7. Reforming K-12
8. Reforming Colleges

rcocean said...

Yeah, its amazing how these thing happen.

1) Scarborough's intern/aide turns up dead. Questions, but no resolution.
2) Ted Kennedy drives off a Bridge while Drunk, kills a girl, leaves the scene. Everyone covers it up.
3) Jeffery Epstein's Guards don't do their rounds, cameras go off, suicide watch rules are violated. Still no one punished.

rcocean said...

BTW, the parents of Mary Jo Koepchene were paid off by the Kennedy family. Its good to have money. And be a liberal Democrat.

J. Farmer said...

@narciso:

the Saudis get involved in yemen, about every 30 years,...

I don't really disagree with anything you wrote, but it's beside the point. We don't have to get involved or assist and underwrite the Saudi position. Two of the biggest flaws in US strategic thinking towards the middle east is the Iran obsession and elevation of MBS as some kind of modernizing reformer. That was mostly the window dressing MBS applied to his flagrant power grab and subsequent consolidation. Granted, MBS is almost certainly more moderate than the average Saud, but there are structural reasons that make modernizing Saudi Arabia difficult. It would take a deft hand to accomplish, and MBS' record hitherto are not encouraging. MBS has revealed himself as heavy-handed, impulsive, careless, and having extremely poor judgment. He launched the war on Yemen expecting a quick operation to restore Hadi to power. His attempts to diplomatically isolate Qatar went nowhere and led to a mini crisis in the region. The assassination of Khashoggi achieved little and cost them a great deal. There has been another round of purges, including Ahmed Al Saud and Prince Nayef. His oil price gambit could blow up in his face, but the jury is still out.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Dust Bunny Queen said...
To star with:
Create open markets and better trade agreements...to start. Negotiations between countries based on their individual needs, products, resources..... instead of a bunch of elitist un-elected bureaucrats in Belgium ruling by fiat.


You want to deny European countries the right to organize their affairs independent of interference from the US? As GB has shown, they can leave whenever they want.

chickelit said...

Dust Bunny Queen said...Create open markets and better trade agreements...to start. Negotiations between countries based on their individual needs, products, resources..... instead of a bunch of elitist un-elected bureaucrats in Belgium ruling by fiat.

To be fair, individual countries in Europe may have banded together to react to a bunch of elitist un-elected bureaucrats in Washington, DC who rule by fiat and with a fiat currency. I think we're overdue for a realignment.

J. Farmer said...

@Ray - SoCal:

I don't see Yemen as a US problem or concern.

We are diplomatically supporting it and are involved in its execution. We provide critical assistance to the Saudis, and we are directly involved through special forces involvement and activities like mid-air refueling. The primary outcome of the intervention has been to vastly increase the destruction of infrastructure and to massively increase human misery in the country, including attempts to weaponize starvation.

Either they buy from the US, or someone else. I don't see it as in the US interest to not support the Saudi's. I am VERY aware of the Saudi's support for their brand of Islam, especially after the Mecca Siege, as a way to buy off rebels in the country.

They could not quickly switch to another foreign provider due to their dependence on US supplies to maintain their current systems. But that is a smaller point. As for supporting the Saudis, it all depends on what you describe as "support." We don't need to station troops in Saudi Arabia, which increases US liabilities and achieves little in terms of our security. The Saudis need us more than we need them. And though they are at most a client state of America's, our foreign policy seems always concerned with "reassuring" them.

The Saudi relationship cannot be detached from our posture towards Iran. And so long as we remain devoted to the Iran obsession, it will distort all other regional issues. A more sensible strategy would be to pursue relations with both countries and balance them against each other. Between the Gulf Arab states, Iran and its regional allies, and Turkey, none are in a position to dominate the region, and so there is a basic balance of power orientation.

narciso said...

Qatar who has lavished great sums in Europe, supporting islamists mosques, whose al Jazeera and tabloid cousin middle east eye has been waging proxy war against the kingdom and the emirates, and by extension Libya and Egypt, who use the whole khashoggi kerfluffle, to buy into turkey's military procurement networks, who lavish similar attendance in this country,



https://babalublog.com/2020/05/03/details-emerge-about-gunman-who-attacked-the-cuban-embassy-in-washington-d-c/#respond

J. Farmer said...

He also renegotiated NAFTA, and is actually building a wall. So many US Presidents talked about this, and did nothing. I have a lot of anger about McCain with his commercial, "Just Build the Dang Wall". So many Republicans talk a great game (Trey Goudy, Ryan, McCain, and Lindsay Graham to name a few), and do nothing once elected. The amount of corruption in DC is amazing.

I certainly do not deny that there have been achievements, and I agree Trump has done more than any recent predecessor. But while I have spent my entire adult life arguing for the positions that essentially became "Trumpism," it is disappointing to see it in Trump's hands. A more competent political operator could've achieved so much more. Trump's over-the-top rhetorical style has its benefits, but it also comes with costs. Undoubtedly part of Trump's appeal was his frank talk. But by approaching major issues in such a rhetorically surreal way, he only made problems more difficult for himself down the line.

The other basic problem I see with Trump is that too much of it is wrapped in him personally. We need Trumpism after Trump. And we're barely getting any Trumpism. This is basically the third George W. Bush term. And they are still chained to Reagonomics at home and rollback abroad. My hope was that Trump's 2016 election would be part of the catalyst that realigned the GOP. Trump has pursued relatively minor adjustments, and the establishment has reacted with all hands on deck.

rcocean said...

Trump had a townhall on Sunday, I'm trying to find a transcript.

Rory said...

Morning Joe and Mika were invitees to the Clinton cocktail party where the Clinton gang started telling their press allies to pump Trump's candidacy before Trump had even announced. It seems Joe couldn't make it that night, but he was in on the ground floor.

J. Farmer said...

@narciso:

Qatar who has...

All of those sorts of behaviors are standard operating procedure in the region and is part of what the balance of power arrangement would predict. Any individually powerful state will use a variety of overt and covert means to increase its influence and power in the region. There is nothing uniquely nefarious about Qatar.

Instead of choosing good guys and bad guys and getting involve on one side against the other, we should pursue a push and pull strategy with all of the relevant powers. Cooperate and trade where it makes sense and balance them in areas where our interests diverge. For all the claims of a Pax Americana, our presence in the region as a hegemonic power has not been a stabilizing force. It's produced the exact opposite. By insisting on a hegemonic presence, we end up defining stability as all the countries in the region doing what we want them to do. That is an absurd and unrealistic demand.

Regime change has blown up in our face, and our regime change posture has remained largely unchanged. We most recently pursued it in Syria and are in the process of pursuing it in Iran. Our negotiating position vis-à-vis Iran is that they give up everything they want, and in exchange, we treat them like a normal country. What regime would negotiate from that position? We say we want a better deal while actively attempting to undermine the regime and hasten its downfall.

walter said...

Having long established a pattern of hitting back via Twitter, seeing what Trump's responding to might be the place to start.


Michael K said...

A more competent political operator could've achieved so much more

Yeah but competent political operators like Nancy and Chuck don't have your agenda.

People on the right keep wishing they had the skills that a lifetime commitment to government brings.

The trouble is that, while it helps to get your wishes into law, it does not make them good ideas.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Dust Bunny Queen said...
To start with:
Create open markets and better trade agreements...to start. Negotiations between countries based on their individual needs, products, resources..... instead of a bunch of elitist un-elected bureaucrats in Belgium ruling by fiat.

ARM You want to deny European countries the right to organize their affairs independent of interference from the US? As GB has shown, they can leave whenever they want.

Of course not. Talk about a leap of logic. I think each country should be free to negotiate with whomever they want and where they will get the best deals. Make their own treaties. Make their own trade deals.

GB is still fighting tooth and nail to finalize their leaving. The Eurocrats aren't cooperating.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

GB can leave under WTO rules whenever it wants. It wants a special deal. Not clear that the EU owes them anything. GB screwed the Commonwealth countries when it entered the EU and now wants to be treated like a princess when it leaves. Not rational.

PM said...

Dear Don,
Obama got into Punaho and Harvard, not on Daddy's money, but on...well...how'd you get your job again?

bagoh20 said...

" used them beautifully in the last Election, dumped them nicely,"

Oh, I like it. I like it a lot. Those two are real pieces of incoherent, dishonest political hackage. It's a nice cut, that probably really bothers them. They deserve no less after years of daily abuse and lies toward Trump. Compare the relative abuse in each direction, and tell me they haven't earned a lot worse from Trump.

J. Farmer said...

@Michael K:

Yeah but competent political operators like Nancy and Chuck don't have your agenda.

I agree. That is why an institutional infrastructure for national conservatism needs to be laid down. McConnell has been in the Senate for over 30 years. Other Republicans have been there for nearly or more than 40 years. But beyond mere governing experience, the movement will need an intellectual foundation, too, most probably through think tanks and periodicals. The establishment's strategy is to contain Trump as much as possible and wait him out, hoping Trumpism will go with him. If the primary defense of the GOP is that it's not as bad as the DNC, then we will be sold out every single time.

robother said...

One good thing came from Trump's tweet. I finally cut the Comcast cable today. Take that, Deep State JoeMika and Madcow!

Anonymous said...

Describe for us which of the Iranian activities that you would be willing to let Iran continue to do with impunity - the things they want, in other words:

- foment war through proxies or through the IRCG in Yemen and Syria; continue to prop up the mass murdering Assad.
- destabilize Lebanon thru Hezbollah.
- actively seek to destroy Israel through IRGC positioning directly and through proxies along the Syrian, Gazan, and Lebanese borders.
- attempt to carry out assassinations in Europe and the US.
- attack US forces directly or indirectly through proxies. The “revered poet” Soleimani’s body count of US military was 608.
- carry our cyber attacks.
- attack shipping passing through Hormuz, and via its Yemeni Houthi proxies through the Red Sea.
- grow their ballistic missile fleet beyond the 2000 conventional warheads they already have; extend the missile fleet range from medium to intermediate range.
- Develop an ICBM capability (only useful to carry a nuclear weapon).
- continue their nuclear activities with the ultimate goal of achieving a nuclear weapon.

These are the everyday activities of the kleptocratic mullahs that the Trump administration asked them to stop. These are NOT the activities of a normal country. If they stop, President Trump has said that he will treat them as a normal country. But, you pick the ones you would let continue.

doctrev said...

J. Farmer said...

Instead of choosing good guys and bad guys and getting involve on one side against the other, we should pursue a push and pull strategy with all of the relevant powers. Cooperate and trade where it makes sense and balance them in areas where our interests diverge. For all the claims of a Pax Americana, our presence in the region as a hegemonic power has not been a stabilizing force. It's produced the exact opposite. By insisting on a hegemonic presence, we end up defining stability as all the countries in the region doing what we want them to do. That is an absurd and unrealistic demand.

5/4/20, 1:47 PM

I imagine Barack Obama thought this, and also tried implementing a similar strategy of dealing with Iran while sponsoring terrorists against them. It was about as stabilizing as one could guess, and was a major factor in the Gulf States funding ISIS against Iran and Syria. The second Donald Trump took a more clear-eyed view of the situation, the ISIS funding stopped and they became extremely vulnerable. This is partly a specific failing of the Obama Administration, but it's also because the idea of one nation "balancing" two warring powers against each other is usually schizophrenic. It mainly worked for the British against tribes who had no experience with such tactics generally and the British specifically, in addition to the Empire having much more competent and ruthless officials than one sees at Foggy Bottom. The concept's having limited success in the modern world.

Anyways, you're concerned about some fairly minor nitpicks in Yemen and South Korea. "Starving" a country over the course of decades is basically Iraq redux, and by Arab standards it probably qualifies MBS for a humanitarian award. It's not something most of the world cares about enough to reverse, certainly not at the risk of angering the Gulf states. As for Korea, Donald Trump is working hard towards unification because it's a core identity issue for all Koreans, and because it can probably hurt China as well. Call that what you will, but it's hardly an incoherent policy even on its own merits, much less comparable to the Obama clusterfuck.

narciso said...

the function of the north Korean and it's Persian analog, is to neutralize regional allies, through direct or indirect action, mobilize its military forces, to hell with the people's needs or wishes,

doctrev said...

SlickWillie Clinton said...

5/4/20, 2:46 PM

You didn't mention sponsoring terrorist groups working against Israel and against the United States in Iraq. That alone would have gotten Iran destroyed by a more competent President than Bush or Obama, assuming they didn't end all proxy terror after the first harsh lesson.

iowan2 said...

Yea...Trump has been doing it wrong since he came down the Golden Escalator. That's why is not
Farmer said
I'm Chevy Chase, and you're not.

I honestly do not understand this point. Being good at running for president is not the same thing as being good at being president.

The point is, its all style over substance. President Trump is accomplishing lots. Working against all the Democrats and all the establishment Republicans (also Dems) plus his cabinet level appointees. My point is, why would President Trump changing his M.O. change anything? The media smeared Bush 45 for 6 years to get his approvals down into the mid 30's. Was there ever a more collegial President? Another President that resided on the high road consistently? Where did that get his agenda? I didn't see experts advising him he needed to be more confrontational.

Your Chevy Chase...yes great snark. But bitching about President Trumps style is like telling Chevy Chase, he is going to fail, and end up among the Hollywood Homeless population, unless he becomes more like Jack Benny. That would be stupid right? Stop doing what is successful, and try to be someone you aren't. That's the comment I can't see the purpose in.

Lurker21 said...


Maybe the secret agenda behind affirmative action is that it makes universities' alumni preferences and donor preferences that much harder to attack.

In any case, for those who are scoring at home, give bonus points for discussing Trump without dragging in Obama or discussiong Obama without dragging in Trump. I know it's hard and we generally do rate presidents by comparing them to their precursors and successors, but biased and unrealistic assessments of other politicians, can weaken or undermine the arguments people make.

Known Unknown said...

"Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...
All this Obama hate seems irrelevant to the topic of the post, Trump's psychic meltdown."

The included Don Lemon video invites Obama love/hate.

Equipment Maintenance said...

"AA, wins the cruelest comment award this morning!"

She won yesterday also with that vicious diss of the Looney surname.

Ray - SoCal said...

J. Farmer - Agree with you on getting US troops out of Saudi Arabia.

Iran has been at war with the US since 1979. The US usually does not notice. How many American's died in Iraq due to Iranian actions? Nice IED's they specially made in Iran.

Iran is fixated on getting Nukes, which I don't blame them after the stupid / disastrous decision that Obama made on Libya. Libya gave up their nuke program, and arghh... Unfortunately if Iran gets nukes, there goes the neighborhood, literally.

On Yemen being a humanitarian disaster, why is that our problem? Somalia is also a disaster, Clinton tried to do nation building, and we got Black Hawk down.

On the Saudi's being a client state, disagree. The Saudi's do push the limits. 9-11, growth in Wahabism worldwide, Islamic Terrorism Growth - all funded by the Saudi's, and ignored for the most part by the US.

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