Here's the transcript:
Speaker 16: Mr. President, more than 22 million Americans are currently unemployed as a result of this. Today we hit the grim milestone of more than 40,000 Americans now having died from the coronavirus. Can you explain then why you come out here and you were reading clips and showing clips of praise for you and for your administration? Is this really the time for self-congratulations?ADDED: Diamond brought up "the Wall Street Journal online" with Trump's "name in it" because earlier in the briefing, Trump had referred to it. This, to Diamond, was part of Trump using the press briefing to congratulate himself. Trump had said:
Donald Trump: I will tell you this. What I’m doing is I’m standing up for the men and women that have done such an incredible job, not for me, for the men and women, admirals, Vice President, if I might, but all of the men and women, thousands, tens of thousands of them, they built hospitals in New York and New Jersey and all over this country in record time. They’d throw up a thousand beds in four days. I’m sticking up for those people. Those people have been incredible. I’m also sticking up for doctors and nurses and military doctors and nurses.
Speaker 16: But the clips that you played and what you read earlier was praising you and your administration-
Donald Trump: All I played today was Governor Cuomo [crosstalk] saying very positive things about the job the federal government has done [crosstalk]. Those people have been just absolutely excoriated by some of the fake news like you. You’re CNN. You’re fake news, and let me just tell you, they were excoriated by people like you that don’t know any better because you don’t have the brains you were born with. You should be praising the people that have done a good job, not doing what you do, even that question. So just so you understand-
Speaker 16: The question is why now, sir. The question is why now, not why are you doing it, but why now?
Donald Trump: I’ll tell you why now. Are you ready? Because these people are right now in hospitals. It’s dangerous. It’s going to a battlefield, and I want these people, I want you, [crosstalk] It’s all about that. It’s not about me. [crosstalk ] Nothing’s about me. Look, you’re never going to treat me fairly, many of you, and I understand that. I don’t even know, I got here with the worst, most unfair press treatment they say in the history of the United States for a President. They did say Abraham Lincoln had very bad treatment, too. Let me just-
Speaker 16: Sir, the Wall Street Journal online I just read has your name in it. It talks about Trump’s remaking the playbook.
Donald Trump: Well, that’s a positive thing because that’s an exercise in how to do it and what to do and that’s good for the future. People can learn from that. But I want the men and women of this country that are in danger, the admirals and the generals that have done a job like they’ve never done before, they’re in war. We’re in war. You know, I call it the invisible enemy. That’s their war and it’s a dangerous war. We’re also at a level when you said 40,000 people, and you’re right, almost 40,000 people and-
Speaker 16: More than.
Donald Trump: Oh, more than, okay, good. Correct me.
Speaker 16: 41,000.
Donald Trump: Correct me. Good. Well, I’m really glad you corrected me, CNN, but here’s the story. Let me just tell you something. If we didn’t do what we did, the 40,000 right now could be a million people. It could be a million people, not 40,000. it could be a million. We’re tracking at much less than the lowest possible estimate, and that’s a great tribute to a number of people in a number of things. One of the things that it’s attributed to is what’s taken place in this country with the American people because they’ve gone inside. They’ve done it. They’ve done a job that nobody thought was possible, and in fact, when they did the models, as they call them, nobody thought it was possible. They did models not based on this kind of success. I’ve seen New York streets and I see it in the morning. I’ve watched all my life, New York streets, and you can’t even see the pavement, there’s so many people. And you take a look this morning, you take a look even on Friday morning, I looked at it. I saw it through a camera. There wasn’t a person on Fifth Avenue. There wasn’t a person on Madison Avenue. I’ve never seen anything like it because people have really listened to instructions, and they’ve listened to what we’ve had to say, and the professionals, they’ve listened, and people should really give them a lot of credit, including people like you, because you just don’t have the sense to understand what’s going on. All right. Yeah, please...
In fact, and I appreciate it very much, the Wall Street Journal wrote a fantastic piece, a highly respected gentleman, Christopher DeMuth, and this piece was just in the Wall Street Journal, weekend edition. “Trump rewrites the book on emergencies.” That’s what’s happened, too. And we, just read one paragraph. “He’s given pride of place to federalism and private enterprise, lauding the patriotism and proficiency of our fantastic governors and mayors,” meaning I do call them fantastic when it’s appropriate, “and our incredible business leaders and genius companies,” I guess I probably use those terms too, when they’re doing a good job. When they’re not doing a good job, I don’t use those terms. “Our heroic doctors and nurses and orderlies and our tremendous truckers.” They have all done good jobs. “By shouting out many of them by name and documenting their deeds on a fully daily basis, he has vivified the American way in action. Once it was reluctantly aroused,” it was hard to get it aroused, and it is hard to get it aroused, but we got it aroused. “When asked why he has not issued orders for nationwide home and business lockdowns, he has emphasized that the intensity of the epidemic varies widely and is best met by calibrated state and local judgments.” That’s the judgments of governors and local people. “And added pointedly that such steps would conflict with the Constitution."Trump stopped reading from the article at that point, I think because he does not want to concede that he lacks the constitutional power to take a top-down approach if he sees fit. Trump continues taking a bit more distance:
But very importantly, he’s just a very respected gentleman. To see this was a very nice feeling. Not for me necessarily, but for all of the people that have worked with us. I mean, they’ve worked so hard and we’ve developed tests that are so fantastic. We’ve come up with things that nobody had ever heard of and we did it during this pandemic. We did it under pressure. It’s called reaction under pressure. It’s pretty amazing what our people have done and that includes all of our military people and our CDC, just about everybody you can imagine, including Tony and Deborah, and they’ve worked long hours. There’s nobody that’s getting a lot of sleep. We’re close to finalizing, I want to thank the writer Christopher, for this article, and it’s a great article. That was frankly, at least of it what I read, it was a great article. We appreciate it.AND: Let me give you a bit more from the Wall Street Journal article:
Mr. Trump has received criticism from all sides for these measured responses. It is said, on the one hand, that he should aggressively commandeer state police powers and industrial resources to mount a uniform national response — and, on the other (sometimes by the same critics), that the crisis will sooner or later unleash the authoritarian ambitions Mr. Trump has supposedly been harboring all along...."Commandeer" is a key word in the constitutional doctrine. The federal government cannot commandeer state and local government. That is, they can be invited to enforce a federal policy (such as to do the background checks on gun buyers, at issue in the key case Printz v. United States), but they can't be forced to do the federal government's enforcement. But the federal government can simply take over in an area that has traditionally belonged to the states and do its own enforcement (assuming it has a basis for exercising federal power), and the federal government can lure states into enforcing federal programs through spending money and attaching conditions.
As the prospect of reopening the economy approaches, Mr. Trump has asserted that he is the ultimate authority. Governors are making state and regional plans, and mayors are claiming to be the deciders for reopening schools. This jousting is preliminary to a next-phase division of labor that will continue to combine practical and constitutional considerations. The federal government will issue guidelines for phased screening and social-mitigation practices by states, and attend to national priorities such as economic liquidity, air travel and increased testing capacity. States and localities will take the lead on procedures for reopening schools, churches, restaurants, offices and parks. There will be a variety of state approaches and disagreements between the states and the feds. It is shaping up to be another round of creative, knowledge-generating federalism....ALSO: We listen to all the press briefings, and we've been talking about how Trump is finding a way to use them to replace the rallies he can no longer do. During this fight with Diamond, we were saying out loud, this is better than the rallies for Trump, because he's got his opponents right there in the ring with him, and we get to see him beat them up before our eyes. And Trump haters are watching too. Presumably, they think their guy is winning and Trump is getting pummeled. What a show! And, of course, to say that is to restate Diamond's original question: Aren't you using this solemn occasion the wrong way?
[T]he administration seems intent on keeping the crisis from generating a permanent expansion of federal and executive powers. President Trump's calling himself a "wartime president" has sounded authoritarian to some of his detractors. It is better viewed in conjunction with his constant assurances that the "invisible enemy" will soon be subdued and national life returned to normal -- as a vow that his use of emergency authority will be as transitory as public-health conditions permit....
Diversified centers of authority and initiative... are the keys to resilience in the face of emergencies large and small.
Posts
318 comments:
1 – 200 of 318 Newer› Newest»You’re CNN. You’re fake news ...
I hope that whoever succeeds Trump as president will use that line occasionally, just for old time's sake ...
Did he EVER ask Obama the same about H1N1?? I'm sick of the Media working against the President. I know they are pissed that Hillary lost, but really....would she have done anything any different?? (besides stopping China from traveling here, which she probably would NOT have done???) The media sucks.
"It could be a million people, not 40,000. it could be a million. We’re tracking at much less than the lowest possible estimate, and that’s a great tribute to a number of people in a number of things."
That's the real story.
CNN.....holding China's water daily.
Damn, he's good.
it was never going to be two million or a million or even 300,000, we've been seriously fnorked,
Jeff Zucker, head of CNN, should have the guts to come to the briefings and debate Trump in person. Instead, he sends his lackeys. Its always fun to see Trump beat up on the left-wing Press, since their only purpose is to help the Democrats and make him look bad.
CNN = Chinese news network.
Jeremy is a hero of the resistance. See, Trump lied about the number of deaths and Jeremy jumped out of the foxhole and corrected his lie. Risked everything to correct Trump. It was 41000 not 40000 Mr liar Jeremy said that as people were dying. Brave Jeremy.
I choked over Begley’s comment because that kind of mass death is precisely what the usual suspects here deny. Trump is right, if hyperbolic, and even Begley is right, that success is the big story.
Someone here, was arguing that the small business bailout was going great and there would be no problems with chain stores gaming the system. As predicted this is not the case:
Shake Shack RETURNS $10million government loan meant for small businesses as pressure grows on other chains to follow suit as the fund runs out of money
The actual death total is 40,620. Stop lying CNN!
I saw a story over the weekend that shed some light on the deaths. Did you know almost 40% of the deaths in USA have been in New York city? 4 out of every 10 deaths! No wonder the Acela Line crappy MSM has lost what little was left of their minds.
slo jo can't see the mailman coming
How many people die in a good year? An average year? Shut down XiNN and salt the parking lot.
I've noticed lately the press people are doing a lot of "what if"ing, and talking about the numbers of people out of work as if they haven't been pressing every governor to shut down. It's like they don't realize shutting down business puts people into unemployment.
Every press conference, there is some NY or DC reporter complaining about Florida not being closed enough. And then they complain about the numbers of unemployed.
I'm all for a sober assessment of what happened and what we could do better. But they can't keep coming into press conferences blaming Trump for killing people (GRIM MILESTONE!), for not shutting down fast enough, and for millions being unemployed and think he isn't going to push back.
Speaker 16: The question is why now, sir. The question is why now, not why are you doing it, but why now?
You know Trump was winning the exchange when the CNN reporter beats a hasty retreat into the timing angle.
Chain stores/restuarnats gaming the system? Depends on what you mean. With lots of Franchises, each store/restaurant is owned individually by a small businessman. Unlike say, star bucks with owns ALL hits stores.
I personally don’t like it when Trump praises his administration because it does seem to be self-praise. When he answers like this he shows much more nuance. That said, Trump does self-promotion because that’s how he rows through these waters. The press will not report Trump positives but by saying them himself they’re forced to, even while framing it in an ugly way. So in the end, he’s doing what he has to do.
If Trump wants to run against the overt bias of the media, there's no better foil than CNN. I was disappointed Jim Acosta wasn't there lending his pomp and glory to the CNN brand, but I guess Diamond will do.....Trump won because for all his crassness and braggadocio, he's a more appealing figure than those photogenic jerks in broadcast media.
it was never going to be two million or a million or even 300,000, we've been seriously fnorked,
No, it wasn't, but as many around here pointed out, claiming victory for having kept it under whatevergiantnumber is easy money on the table for Trump.
I liked it when Trump asked a reporter how many corona deaths there had been at the point she retroactively thinks they should have shut down the US.
OH! And....people who are implying Trump did something wrong because he allowed US Citizens and green card holders to come here from China after the travel ban-- are gross. That is a disgusting talking point. Bill Maher tried it, and a reporter at the briefing yesterday tried it.
If you are complaining that US Citizens were allowed to return home from a place of global pandemic, you need to reevaluate your thoughts in the face of fear.
CNN is and will hallway be CLINTON NEWS NETWORK. also CHI COM NETWORK.
CNN is hot garbage, all the time, for the glory of The Party.
‘Jobs created or saved”
they can't process those two realities, like Harvey mudd's androids,
kennedy center got their 25 mil though, that's the important thing,
Did Obama ever have any Grim Milestones? Or are those for Republican presidents only?
Did he EVER ask Obama the same about H1N1??
Of course not. Obama never got a tough question in eight years, because the press corps liked him and agreed with him. (And even if they didn't, would YOU be the one making life difficult for the First Black President [tm]?. Not if you don't want to be back covering city council meetings in Tulsa, you don't.)
Let's hold off on the applause for the doctors and nurses. Something strange is happening in the hospitals. In a normal week, medical errors "kill enough people to fill four jumbo jets a week." We're not living in normal times. Burned out doctors and nurses are dangerous and we have no idea how many serious medical mistakes they're causing. And the hospitals themselves are filthy. NYC's hospitals look worse than Romania's. Can we be sure that exposure to these environments isn't causing otherwise healthy patients, or people that would at least recover from Covid 19, to suffer acute complications that lead to their deaths.
It's time to bring back the house call doctors! Save the hospitals for very specialized care...
they all are except for chanel rion, who they drummed out of the landru circle, maybe a few others,
The first instinct would be simply to label the CNN guy as a douchebag and then move on, but as others have often pointed out, this represents CNN's business model. A consistent attempt to portray Trump and his administration in a bad light. Their declining viewership is by now very selective in what it believes and wants. This isn't reporting or journalism; more like painting by numbers with a very limited palette of colors. The CNN guy is just doing his job as he understands it and will surely get a round of figurative high fives back at the office.
"The actual death total is 40,620. Stop lying CNN!"
Even that is inflated, and we all know it, becuase they admit it, and it has been documented. The question is how much?
Yes, stop lying, but not just CNN. Have you notice that a lot of people are rooting for a higher number on a daily basis. They love to tell you it's higher, and they get a little ticked if you tell them it's lower. Isn't that weird?
Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...
Someone here, was arguing that the small business bailout was going great and there would be no problems with chain stores gaming the system. As predicted this is not the case...
Contra, I've said repeatedly the forgiveness in the PPP loans is likely to go to those who need it least.
What this points out, however, is how hard it is to implement "need-based" government programs without distortion of incentives.
You almost have to assume that second- or third-best will be the order of the day in order to do something to address a crisis like this.
Now, apply that same standard of scrutiny to the permanent welfare state.
remember when he tried to do that with Acosta, a Hawaiian judge said put him back in,
How many of those almost 41,000 were really caused by the WuFlu? The usual suspects here still ignore that the all-cause death rate is LOWER than normal.
On April 5th, the U.S. saw 1,344 COVID-19 deaths, as the number of cases in the U.S. accelerated. The overall number of deaths in the U.S., or the crude death rate did not show a correlated rise.
At the very least, this data shows we need to analyze COVID-19 deaths in the context of the broader U.S. mortality rate from all causes. It appears normal deaths are being attributed to COVID-19 if the patient is COVID-19+, even if another underlying chronic cause is responsible.
The doomsayers ignore the fact that WuFlu deaths are being added with no verification of cause. The worst offenders are New York with 4500 at least added with no proof and New Jersey, which is part of the New York cluster.
“Self-congratulations” has been Trump’s business model for 40 years. He’s the consummate bullshit artist and self-promoter wrapped up in a very odd personality. The hair, the tabloids, the Slavic wives, the germaphobia, the adolescent sexuality. Nonetheless, the most curious thing I ever heard about Trump was that he wasn’t a fan of music.
There are 3 big, big, big issues swirling about:
1. What do about the virus
2. What do about the government lockdown in response to the virus
3. Whether and how the effects of 1 and 2 impact Trump's re-election chances.
CNN and its idiotic followers, unbelieveably, care most about 3. They want to fan flames of fear and panic on 1; they want a vigorous authoritarian nationwide lockdown for 2, and then when the economy tanks, they wanna ask Trump, how he's gonna save us from all the unemployment.
"Have you notice that a lot of people are rooting for a higher number on a daily basis."
That's the default worldview of the media. In Omaha, the weather people just love it when it is 100 degrees or there is 5 inches of snow on the ground. They love drama.
yes they are cooking the books as badly as Paramount did with 'coming to america'
Dan Crenshaw is a TX Congressman and a former Seal. He's the guy with the eyepatch. In an appearance on Bill Maher he said, "Panic breeds panic. Calm breeds calm."
Trump is calm. The Fake News is panic.
The D Governor of Washington was going crazy over Trump's "Liberation" remarks. His state has 634 CV-10 deaths. People are posting "Florida morons" stuff on Facebook and attacking the R governor for not locking more things down. Florida has 20 million people - and 774 deaths. Texas has 29 million and 500 deaths.
Its obvious that the left-wing DNC-run Main Stream Media wants the Crisis to get worse, wants everything locked down, and wants the economy to crater because of one thing:
It will guarantee the election of Joe Biden.
meanwhile they try to extinguish all hope, by rubbishing any treatment option, like the fairly inexpective hcq zpak cocktail, other components are probably more expensive,
who wrote this legislation, they should ask why it was so deficient,
Calling Joe Biden--needed STAT in the White House press room to go all Corn Pop on these CNN clowns.
I'm surprised Trump can still walk with all the ankle biting that he gets from CNN.
Let's hold off on the applause for the doctors and nurses.
They have replaced, perhaps temporarily, the military as the object of Americans' weird need to venerate people based on the work that they do.
even in the bag of cats, that was the democratic primary, he couldn't get any traction, Wilhelm also ran for a fraction of a second,
Once Biden is elected, they will do their usual flip flop. We'll be told the CV crisis is over, and the economy is doing gangbusters. The whole "Crisis" will disappear, just like the homeless crisis disappeared in 1993, and the Iraq war protests went away in Jan 2009.
Commander in Chief Trump wins again. The only problem with that is the women voters who decry his cut throat and mean way of winning. They want Trump to admit he is a weak thinking peace therapist....like them. And then he should give his attackers a hug and a flower like the Summer of Love nice people.
But the nice Trump has been MIA in the last few weeks. He seems to know what comes next for the Human Scum he has had to be nice to.
Why does it bother the DNC-Media Complex so much that Trump spreads the credit and the blame were appropriate?
Trump has been very good about defending the lower-level people who work for him and the Executive branch. Its one of his good qualities.
Trump has been trying to extract praise from the hack press on behalf of members of his administration who, if they were democrats, would be receiving praise from CNN.
Not that the press should be in the praise business. But they are. And they only cheer-lead for The Party(D).
Instead it's death counts, grim milestones, and out-of-context Trump quotes.
If Hillary were in there, you can count on CNN to heap praise.
Who is the real scam artist?
My money is on Clinton Newz.
Have you notice that a lot of people are rooting for a higher number on a daily basis. They love to tell you it's higher, and they get a little ticked if you tell them it's lower. Isn't that weird?
It's like the people who get excited about extreme weather. People are wired for drama and danger, I guess, and if it's not there they will invent it.
I have to watch this in myself to make sure I'm not doing the same thing in regards to economic collapse.
One thing I have learned from the Wuhan Virus panic is that the Fake News still has plenty of power. It has scared the hell out of people and caused an unwarranted nationwide shutdown of the economy that is unwarranted.
The better approach would have been a tailored approach as in shutting down NYC and the subway. Or doing something different about the subway as in limiting passengers and constant cleaning.
Another tailored approach would have been just to make old people with other health issues stay home.
We just got a one size fits all approach.
remember when zaphod signed away the demolition of earth
Even that is inflated, and we all know it, because they admit it, and it has been documented. The question is how much?
I just did a routine check of the tally numbers. Bing (Microsoft) still shows 0 recoveries for my state despite over a 1,000 in my area as reported by the county health department. They provide a caveat that not all states are reporting complete information, so I looked at what Texas is reporting. So the fatality count is inflated and the recovery rate is under reported. Yet, we are expected to respect the science of the models.
remember when he suggested that, a few weeks ago. I'm sure our numbers were goosed up by those who exfilled from the big apple and jersey like kree warriors,
Just picture in your mind's eye Joe Biden doing these daily press conferences.
We're winning! We're unified. Not China's fault. China is not a competitor. They're good people. Come on man!
Members of the press always have leaned left, always. But this is the first time they have exulted publicly about the further spread of a deadly, economy-killing pandemic because they believe it will make a sitting president look bad.
Maybe the network can bring back James Earl Jones, the great voice of "This is CNN," to record its new motto.
"Keep hate alive."
@Farmer: the most curious thing I ever heard about Trump was that he wasn’t a fan of music.
Not everyone feels the love of music. My parents were entirely unmusical, and so am I, and so are my kids, despite the pretty substantial talents of their mother. I can’t read music, can’t play any instrument, can’t sing, and rarely turn on music for my own entertainment. I have favorite songs, and don’t actively dislike music, but if for some reason it disappeared, I would barely notice. Some people are just not wired for it.
and you're a fat dog faced pony soldier, remember when they locked a reporter in a closet, in a biden fundraiser, and the reporter didn't complain?
Today we hit the grim milestone of more than 40,000 Americans now having died from the coronavirus.
Well, they better quit dying pretty soon or my prediction of a month ago won't be as accurate:
"Based on the current stats, I'm going with "overblown media-driven panic" and that it'll be similar to a bad flu season, where, according to CDC, 50 to 60K Americans die in a year: that's an average of 4-5,000 deaths a month, though they're mostly in one season."
Sad.
Trump gets criticized for praising his own work.
Obama gets lauded for his Nobel Prize for Nothing.
they have a laser like focus though
Noth the liberal use, by Trump, of the word "we" and the relative absence of the word "I". Obviously he is subtly trying to make this all about himself. /s
The usual suspects here still ignore that the all-cause death rate is LOWER than normal.
That's a direct consequence of the shelter-in-place policy, isn't it, Michael K?
There will be many stories about this virus when this is all done, but the only stories we'll get from the MSM are that Trump killed people and he's too narcissistic to be President during these very trying times. This from the people who missed the two biggest stories of the century (China diseasing the world and killing a global economy & the MSM taking part in a coup of the American President).
But among the real stories are that people, everyday people in this country mostly live from paycheck to paycheck. Month to month. Year in and year out. They are mostly 1 pay gap away from getting behind. Cancel their jobs, their livelihoods and they are now living with a very real fear of how to feed their kids, how to pay rent to keep a roof over their heads, water, electricity. And, God forbid, unforeseen medical needs (non-coronavirus related). This is most of America. While our rock stars and late night TV hosts go on TV to do a feel-good-for-themselves money raiser for our new heroes- doctors and nurses, they tend to miss the very fabric of the people that make this country work- day in and day out. And we're squeezing out those people. We are taking a wrecking ball to their lives. No song by John Legend will make that feel better. In fact, you might say it's an insult.
They say nothing about grocers, the dry cleaning guy at the corner who has fed his family through the business for years and is now closed- for good. Or the small manufacturing plant up the road. Or the dozens of restaurants employing thousands of people. Or the furniture store, gas station, clothing store, hair dresser, etc., etc. All of these and more are staring at the closure of their lives. Our Journalists! are starting to feel it to because- let's face it- they've made themselves non-essential.
And why is this? Well- we were all afraid (and still are) of this virus. But what are the actual numbers? The actual numbers are in New York and environs. Not the rest of the country. And you can tell me that's because we did the mitigation. Maybe yes. Maybe no. There's no way to know for sure. But what I know is that New York is the problem. And that's where these people view the world from. And that's why the family in South Bend, IN who has had to close their business forever will not be able to make rent this month. St. Joseph County, the county where South Bend resides, has 8 deaths from coronavirus. They've had more traffic deaths this year.
And that's the story of the rest of the country. New York's outsized influence on how we fight this battle
@Skookum John:
Some people are just not wired for it.
Yeah, I get it. I just can't help but I feel a little unsettled when I hear that about people. Back during the election, the BBC published an article, "Donald Trump's unexpected thoughts on music." I was curious because of what I had heard about Trump not liking music. It's a collection of quotes from his books, which are almost certainly ghostwritten, and it seemed pretty phony. Ironically, when he was "interviewed" by Ali G many years ago, he was asked what the most popular thing in the world was. He answered "music," and I remember thinking at the time that it was a very insightful answer.
“The better approach would have been a tailored approach as in shutting down NYC and the subway. Or doing something different about the subway as in limiting passengers and constant cleaning. “
The people running the NYC subways did exactly the wrong thing. They should have either completely shut down the subways (likely not possible) or greatly increased the number of trains running. They did neither - instead, they cut service faster than their traffic dropped off, necessarily resulting in increased, often much increased, passenger densities, on their trains. In response to a virus where the best defense is distancing, they forced their passengers to crown in closer. Your government at work for you.
yes they are cooking the books as badly as Paramount did with 'coming to america'
Who is they? What books?
p.s. Love Coming to America. Hate John Landis.
I was curious because of what I had heard about Trump not liking music.
Sensory issue? One of my daughters just hates music - I think it’s just noise to her.
the public health authorities in new York, among others,
why he screwed up with that stunt in twilight zone, but that was just hubris,
Two weeks ago Wisconsin had its election. You would expect to have seen by now a big increase if voting in times of Pandemic were as dangerous as touted. At least for Dane Co (link and Milwaukee Co (link), I don't see much.
I usually sub in the word "control" when I hear a politician say "in an abundance of caution" -- this outbreak isn't going to break me from that.
The funny thing about Trump is that he really does appear to appreciate what the common people do for him and for the country. I was struck, the day after his nomination, when he gave a thank you speech to all of those who made the convention possible. He thanked the carpenters who built the stage. He thanked all of the different law enforcement agencies that had worked to make it safe, calling them out agency by agency. Etc. He didn’t need to have done it. Crooked Hillary didn’t do it. Obama didn’t do it, nor did probably McCain or Romney. He constantly thanks and lionized the troops deployed around the world, and esp those in harm’s way. And now he thanks the doctors and other health workers, working long hours, risking COVID-19 themselves, who have worked hard to fight this pandemic.
Sure, maybe it all is fake (I don’t think so). Maybe it is just his management style. But it is good, and it works. People work much harder for bosses who appear to appreciate their hard work, as opposed to those who just expect it.
“I have to watch this in myself to make sure I'm not doing the same thing in regards to economic collapse.”
I’m very happy to see this.
Trump's ability to take on the lightly-schooled and ill-prepared reporters is a thing of beauty. Can anyone present a video clip of a churlish reporter challenging Obama? GHB? Bill Clinton? GHWB?
Corporate media did not survive Trump.
Left Bank of the Charles said...
Sad.
4/20/20, 9:19 AM
Cheer up little buccaroo. Orange Man Bad will be gone in 4 1/2 years.
@Pookie Number 2:
Sensory issue? One of my daughters just hates music - I think it’s just noise to her.
They actually call it "music anhedonia," though I'm skeptical about how discreet a condition it really is. Back when fMRI's were all the rage in neurobiology, it was claimed that it has something to do with the nucleus accumbens, a subcomponent of the basal ganglia. Interestingly, the nucleus accumbens is part of what they call the "reward system" in the brain and has been implicated in addiction and some forms of anxiety. Trump is famously a teetotaler and germaphobe. This probably all means nothing, but there you go.
Reply: Mr. Diamond, is it really the time for partisan hackery?
Also, I loved the "XiNN" upthread! I'm stealing that one!
Yes thanks to these "press conferences" more people are beginning to see Trump as a pathetic egotist who spends time whining and blaming others rather than showing leadership to the whole country. Yes he is a great supporter of the military claiming they suffered nothing more than a headache from the rocket fire in Iraq, or they are being politically correct at the Air Force Academy when they follow the guidelines of social distancing recommend by CDC.
or the xao yao network, Chinese word for dezinforma,
If anyone is self-congratulatory it's the "liberal" Hive, of which the MSM is its propaganda arm. "Look at us--we're so enlightened and compassionate, you could plotz!" Never mind that their "enlightenment" consists of a retrogressive State-cultism, and their "compassion" consists of a willingness to spend other people's money.
Chris DeMuth is a national treasure.
Blogger Kai Akker said...
The usual suspects here still ignore that the all-cause death rate is LOWER than normal.
That's a direct consequence of the shelter-in-place policy, isn't it, Michael K?
To some degree, that is probable. Maybe this is a mild flu season. The point is that we don't know what the Chinese virus real numbers are. Nobody is going to test 330 million people.
We know that, even in closed systems like cruise ships and aircraft carriers, only 20 to 30% of people get immunity from infection.
The hysteria is going to kill a lot of people, too. I have no problem with the decisions made early when we did not know as much as we do now. Now, we should be opening up the economy to save jobs and homes and businesses. Those at higher risk, and I am one, can shelter in place with little harm except not seeing grandchildren.
Some businesses are going to have a prolonged problem. Movie theaters and airlines, for example, will be along time recovering. Cities like New York and Tokyo, with crowded public transit, will be hot spots.
California, where few use public transit, should be opening up but the Governor is having too much fun ordering people around. I am really annoyed by the few still flogging the disaster theories.
"it could be a million"
Actually, 11 million, according to "real calculations." So: about 10,940,000 "lives" "saved." Is there a greater savior in American history than Trump?
DeMuth is wrong: "federalism" in this case did not simply decentralize authority but centralize it in the hands of petty tyrants at the state level, who showed that they can ignore any legal constraints or any basic rights on their mere say-so.
Far from advancing liberty, as he thinks wishfully, The Panic of 2020 promoted security as the ultimate value, to be guaranteed by government.
Darrell said...
How many people die in a good year? An average year?
According to CDC figures 233,000 Americans (on average) died each month in 2018.
The Wuhan coronavirus "devastation" that drama queens fear has caused 40,000 deaths in 3 months. That number is obviously inflated.
Thanks Madison Man, I've been making the same point to my friends. The election was going to kill us all and in reality had no effect on the case count. Also, U.S. Grant had the same problem with music. Disliked it, thought it was all just irritating noise. I believe he once said he only knew two tunes, one was Dixie and the other wasn't.
I get the dinghy mostly for larfs
"But among the real stories are that people, everyday people in this country mostly live from paycheck to paycheck. Month to month. Year in and year out. They are mostly 1 pay gap away from getting behind."
I see lots of new cars on the street, certainly newer than mine. Summer weekends, there seem to be plenty of trucks out, hauling jet skis and boats to the lake and there are probably half a dozen self storage businesses within a short drive of my house, to hold all the stuff people don't have space for at home.
So I have to wonder at least a little bit about the rest of the story behind the "most people live paycheck to paycheck" stat that gets reported so regularly.
"The Wuhan coronavirus "devastation" that drama queens fear has caused 40,000 deaths in 3 months. That number is obviously inflated."
Right. Numbers are being massaged as we speak, and many of the "fatalities" occurred among sick old people with very limited life expectancy. So, worst case, less than 15K excess death per month. On which the shutdowns had almost no impact, as Wittkowski, Giesecke, et al., explained, for those who want to "follow experts" rather than just common sense. So: minimal gain at maximum expense.
and when there's no income, or insufficient for all your expenses, lets use a little logic,
These daily tangles are the best worked shoot press conferences since Stone Cold Steve Austin and Mike Tyson. Everybody gets their stuff in.
“I choked over Begley’s comment because that kind of mass death is precisely what the usual suspects here deny. Trump is right, if hyperbolic, and even Begley is right, that success is the big story.”
Trump is telling you people it could’ve been a million people if not for him and his administration supporting the Governors’ mitigation in the form of social distancing. So while people here are saying this was a fiction all along, Trump is using the number to pat himself on the back. It’s one of the things he can actually be given credit for, yet you people here keep wanting to snatch this victory away from him. So why are people here adamant about Trump being mistaken about the million number and at the same time not blaming him for being wrong (in their estimation).
Sorry to say it but Trump and people here sound schizophrenic at times.
good questions
As observed 69 years ago by Hannah Arendt, terror is the central experience of humans in a totalitarian system. The main driver of that experience (and its concomitant isolation) is witnessing entire swathes of humans being deemed superfluous to the historic process, and dealt with accordingly.
Now consider that every governor's shutdown order divides all workers into one of two categories: "essential" and "nonessential." And every day for the last month, huge numbers of those "nonessential" workers are getting notices that they are fired, laid off, furloughed. No groceries for you, maybe line up in a food line for hours (but keep your distance from your fellow nonessential humans.) If the 20th Century teaches us anything, if there's one thing worse than being considered "deplorable," it's being considered "nonessential."
The lowered death rate applies to all areas of the country pretty much except the hot spots. In the hot spots it’s higher.
So two obvious explanations. The first is that the distancing is reducing flu etc everywhere. The natural inference is that the excess death in the hotspot undercounts what we would have seen sans distancing.
The other likely explanation is that the flu is milder this year. Again the same inference is implied.
It makes little sense to look to areas where the virus is not to assess its effect. You look at the infected areas.
Blogger rcocean said...
The D Governor of Washington was going crazy over Trump's "Liberation" remarks. His state has 634 CV-10 deaths.
Ten deaths yesterday. Washington is well past it's plateau and adding minimal deaths daily. Yet the Governor shows no signs of lifting restrictions. Ever.
Expect the same from other blus state governors.
Movie theaters are over. Home streaming is becoming ubiquitous, and those who were not on the streaming bus before are getting on it now. Pay-per-view will become the new original release.
My movie theater attendance has been in free fall for several years, I don't imagine now that I will ever visit one again. What would be the reason? Because I like hearing other people talk over the film? Because I love to navigate parking lots?
Airlines, on the other, will recover. They will add scent to the ventilation system to make it smell like a hospital inside the cabin to reassure all the passengers.
Inga “ Sorry to say it but Trump and people here sound schizophrenic at times. ”
With their burden shifting, changing standards of evidence, and flat out contradictions it reminds me of arguing with communists.
A nice example of the contradictions. A few weeks ago they pointed at crowded subways as evidence the disease was nothing. Now they argue it’s deadly in NYC because of the subway. And that flip happened without a blink or murmur.
I have the brains I was born with, for what it’s worth.
Whitmer announced the protests will add time on to the stay at home orders. So what is she going to do when we approach 14 days from the protests?
A= Look desperately for cases to prove herself right?
B- Easily find cases that will prove she was right?
Or
C- admit the protests didn't hurt anything if there aren't more cases?
Vote now!
Trump could have said “Why did we celebrate Doolittle’s raid on Tokyo”, and that would have baffled most of the press.
Kai Akker: We are missing two months worth of iatrogenic deaths this year do to cancelled elective procedures and testing. We’ll catch up later, though.
If I were a NY Health official, II would study if there is something about the airflow in the subway that is increasing the spread of the disease.
Yesterday, I read about a study of restaurant patrons in Hong Kong. People within a few feet of a Corona person in the direct line of airflow from the air conditioner got sick. Waitstaff passing through and passing nearby did not get sick.
I know I mentioned before, but the Amoy Gardens during SARS had an airflow in the bathrooms and between the bathrooms that increased spread,
If you've ever stood over a subway grate, you know the air whooshes up when the train passes underneath. Maybe something is going on with that.
(sorry to use such specific scientific language)
Half the WuFlu deaths in Colorado are in nursing homes. Explain how shutting down the entire economy and social distancing has reduced those deaths. What if we had dealt with the predictable vulnerability of those folks and kept the economy open? We'd have reduced virus deaths by 50%, offsetting any incidental deaths of the general population who are working and achieving herd immunity as in Sweden. But, totalitarians prefer drastic measures. Pour l'encourager les autres.
So why is it acceptable to characterize people who believed Trump’s estimation of a “million people” as “panic-ers”, was Trump himself a panic-er? I’d say if there were to be more honesty here people would include Trump in that group of people they call a panic-er.
ro: "Half the WuFlu deaths in Colorado are in nursing homes. Explain how shutting down the entire economy and social distancing has reduced those deaths. What if we had dealt with the predictable vulnerability of those folks and kept the economy open?"
Makes way too much sense. Advocated by yours truly from the outset.
But no. Instead, let's do the senseless thing: shutting down the economy in a way that has no material impact. Minimal gain at maximum expense: hallmark of the insanity epidemic.
These governors like Whitmer, Inslee, and Pritzker are going to get a swift wake up when they see their tax receipts from the first half of the year. Whitmer and Pritzker are delusional if they think they can conjure money out of thin air. For the first time in my lifetime, state and local governments are going to have to do RIFs. Welcome to the party!
Online journalists are already finding out what the disappearance of advertisements means.
as Trump himself a panic-er
I would say Trump was pushed into acting really strongly. But the people I consider panickers are the people who want there to be tests every day for everyone before we open up, or who are washing their grocery bags, or who won't go out of the house at all, or who freak out if they come closer than 6 feet to anyone. Things like that. People who (in my state) are asking me to join the Facebook group in support of Whitmer's laws agains buying paint and seed. People who report other people for standing too close in the park. People who embraced all this with gusto, fear, and who tried to shame anyone for asking questions or doubting the wisdom.
Am I wrong to think there are also a lot of deaths in nursing homes because the people were never going to be put on respirators?
I take him at his word here: he's genuinely angry that the effort of many thousands of people is dismissed by some nitwits, even when the evidence of the efforts is shown to the nitwits in great detail.
Remember when there was no hope, not enough ICUs, not enough ventilators? That was the word three weeks ago. Governors were being shorted by the feds! We want our 20,000 ventilators!
The feds rationed them instead of simply giving them to the first requester and then saying "no more" to the rest, and no one went without. That's a huge success. It SHOULD be blindingly obvious.
“What if we had dealt with the predictable vulnerability of those folks and kept the economy open? We'd have reduced virus deaths by 50%...”
If there were to be more cases of Covid in the general population by less or no mitigation efforts, the staff who works at nursing homes would have a higher incidence of having Covid and with that a higher incidence of infecting the vulnerable population of nursing homes they work with. With not enough PPE and especially not enough testing how do people here think nursing homes could’ve been effectively isolated? Unless robots give care, clean and cook in nursing homes, there is no effective isolation of this population, that is now being decimated. It would be even worse without the mitigation efforts.
I remember Tapper, in the early days, pushing out information about the Henry Ford Hospital System making choices about who would go on respirators. Remember all of that? And nobody in this country has been denied respirators, even as we make more and more and more of them. But the reporting was that it was happening, even though HFH pushed back saying no, these were just contingency plans.
That was instilling panic.
I see rumors everywhere that someone's sister who is a nurse said there are bodies piling up in the hallways of her hospital and they've had to bring in refrigerated trucks for all of them--- even though the death numbers in any nearby hospital didn't support that at all. That's instilling and succumbing to panic.
Ken B said:
A few weeks ago they pointed at crowded subways as evidence the disease was nothing
I guess I missed those posts. Must have been a lot of them.
Kai Akker: We are missing two months worth of iatrogenic deaths this year do to cancelled elective procedures and testing. We’ll catch up later, though.
I don't know what iatrogenic means. We are obviously not passing any of the customary diseases around. The miles driven have fallen steeply and that means fewer auto fatalities. People are home and not falling off cliffs somewhere. They're not going into hospitals and getting MERSA. There are many ways this policy has reduced deaths. Comparing last year's death numbers to the current situation is meaningless -- there'd better be fewer deaths as a result of this shutdown!
KenB
Give a link to one of those “nice examples”.
Kai Akker- CBS reported yesterday that traffic is down, accidents are down, but more of the accidents are fatal. (presumably because people are using the empty roads more carelessly/dangerously)
You want the "crisis" to be over by Friday? Start furloughing government employees (including all in congress), without pay and no back-pay catch-up (like the phone gov shutdowns), tonight.
Do that at the state (for those that don't have a re-open plan) and the federal level AND boy-o-boy you will see some cleanup on those numbers and a flattening of that curve. States will start opening on Monday
“Remember when there was no hope, not enough ICUs, not enough ventilators? That was the word three weeks ago. Governors were being shorted by the feds! We want our 20,000 ventilators!”
Without social distancing, that could’ve been a reality. Trump himself is giving mitigation efforts of the Governors credit for saving hundreds or thousands of people. Why don’t you believe him?
Inga- I think we'd have to figure out why nursing homes were/are so low on PPE, and correct that for the future.
Without social distancing, that could’ve been a reality. Trump himself is giving mitigation efforts of the Governors credit for saving hundreds or thousands of people. Why don’t you believe him?
I mean, *could've* is a pretty big word here.
We didn't social distance!!! We quarantined! We can't buy paint!
(although I saw a bunch of golfers out yesterday. I think a little golfing protest was underway.)
“There wasn’t a person on Fifth Avenue.”
That’s just an excuse for Trump to renege on a campaign promise.
Trump himself is giving mitigation efforts of the Governors credit for saving hundreds or thousands of people. Why don’t you believe him?
I do; it's a team effort.
That's the whole freaking point. It's a team effort at all levels. Starting with the people themselves, all the way to federal efforts providing vital coordination and assistance.
“Inga- I think we'd have to figure out why nursing homes were/are so low on PPE, and correct that for the future.”
Great idea! Add hospitals to that because even without Covid older people are being hospitalized more than young people. Lots of figuring things out as to why there wasn’t enough PPE and isolation supplies.
(although I saw a bunch of golfers out yesterday. I think a little golfing protest was underway.)
In Michigan, some private clubs have set up rules where club members can just show up and play with on-line tee time sign up and a lot of rules (twosomes only, no carts, etc.). So basically no interaction, carry your own clubs.
It'd be fun in a way; much less complicated. But I don't play so what do I know?
“I do; it's a team effort.”
A lot of people here don’t though. They think Trump is wrong about the one million number without mitigation. They think mitigation was an act of PANIC!
Trump praise for isolation with only 41,000 dead:.
"It could have been a million people"
The Derp State has turned him.
Which Howard is this? Getting tough to know the players without a program.
moving benchmarks
So, I must ask, if Trump brings up the one million deaths as a possibility without mitigation, how is he not as much of a “PANIC-ER!” as those of us who believed him about the one million fatalities number? Are we panic-ers for believing Trump?
Lots of figuring things out as to why there wasn’t enough PPE and isolation supplies.
My crazy guess: The hospitals and nursing homes spent the money on other things.
(although I saw a bunch of golfers out yesterday. I think a little golfing protest was underway.)
Lots of golf being played in Tucson but driving ranges and shooting ranges closed.
“I mean, *could've* is a pretty big word here.”
Tell that to Trump. He said it could’ve been a million people without mitigation, that Trump, what a PANIC-ER!
ARM
They didn’t game the system, they were caught out. They own all their restaurants corporately and thus did not qualify for loans under the PPP. Ruth’s Chris in contrast franchises their restaurants so the owners of those outlets do qualify for PPP having less than 500 employees each. Almost every hotel chain uses a franchise system and so hotels with less than 500 employees qualify for the loan program. Most fast food chains franchise as well
Trump and his supporters will claim victory no matter what happens. His opponents will claim disaster and defeat no matter what happens.
I maintain that nobody knows what they are talking about. Therefore, I’ll go with victory because the defeatists have been wrong about so much other stuff.
“My crazy guess: The hospitals and nursing homes spent the money on other things.”
Not a crazy guess at all, I agree with you. The nursing home industry is a multi billion dollar industry and one of the dirtiest , most underhanded business there are. They make a huge profit off of warehousing the elderly and most vulnerable people in our society. Nursing homes are hell holes to live in and hell holes to work in, no matter what beautiful furnishings and decor they may have. It’s an illusion. They are chronically short staffed and staff are underpaid and overworked.
"The usual suspects here still ignore that the all-cause death rate is LOWER than normal."
"That's a direct consequence of the shelter-in-place policy, isn't it, Michael K?"
You know, that's right. We know for certain that thousands of people will die if we go back to work and leave our homes everyday even without the virus, so what's the reasoning for ever going back to normal? I won't say that staying home is worth it "if it saves one life", but if it saves thousands, which it would? This is a serous question, with all those deaths resulting from living normally, how can we justify ever doing it again?
Tell that to Trump. He said it could’ve been a million people without mitigation, that Trump, what a PANIC-ER!
So....now "could've" and "Mitigation" are the words doing the heavy lifting.
Here's how I see Trump in all of this: he didn't think it was a bigger deal than other diseases we've had of late, as many of us didn't. As his own medical advisors didn't. Then it got bigger, but even bigger was the media response, who wanted to use his lack of panic against him. Models were shown to him medical advisors and him, showing millions of people were going to die, and the panic was set off. He pushed hard to show he was taking it seriously. Various governors shut their states down. Trump pushed to help offset the financial hit from that. Trump was accused of letting people die in the hallways without ventilators and respirators. He got those to the governors. He was accused of not caring about patients dying in the hallways. He had the USS Comfort and the Javitz Center and McCormick place and wherever turned into hospitals by the Army Corps of Engineers. We haven't needed most of that.
Trump talked about opening up the economy. He was accused of letting people die so the stock market could recover.
We still have people too afraid to get back to work until there is a vaccination and tests for everyone everyday. That didn't come from Trump. But he is President, and a President dealing with a panicked public and a panic-inducing press. And he's a politician. So yeah, he's going to say what he's going to say about the number of deaths that he was told there could have been.
He doesn't personally strike me as someone who has panicked, though. He's not holed up In his house wearing a mask.
"So, I must ask, if Trump brings up the one million deaths as a possibility without mitigation, how is he not as much of a “PANIC-ER!” as those of us who believed him about the one million fatalities number? Are we panic-ers for believing Trump?"
Yes, but since you never believed him before, don't you wonder why you suddenly did?, and likely never will again? What could explain that strange phenomenon in your head?
By the way, he was and is wrong about it. Maybe that's it. You do seem to love being wrong about stuff all the the time. Trump found a way to win you over.
Mark O said...
Trump's ability to take on the lightly-schooled and ill-prepared reporters is a thing of beauty. Can anyone present a video clip of a churlish reporter challenging Obama? GHB? Bill Clinton? GHWB?\
************************
Sam Donaldson. Dan Rather Helen Thomas
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TY0CXZO3Y44
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1d2XEdYAzyE (start at 6:30)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7fdCw418WQ (start at 1:45)
Ken B said...
With their burden shifting, changing standards of evidence, and flat out contradictions it reminds me of arguing with communists.
A nice example of the contradictions. A few weeks ago they pointed at crowded subways as evidence the disease was nothing. Now they argue it’s deadly in NYC because of the subway. And that flip happened without a blink or murmur.
There is Ken making things up again because Ken is a liar.
You have been completely unable to argue anything about this in good faith. Makes sense you and Inga agree.
Total deaths are lower this year than most years.
Far lower than 2018.
The numbers of COVID-19 deaths being posted are a sham.
The original mitigation plan was to reduce the strain on the medical systems. That's what we were told. In most places in the country, we have flattened the curve so that this did not happen.
Now, those old goalposts have shifted and it's stay-at-home until what, exactly? Complete financial insolvency? (a bit of dramatic license)
We know for certain that thousands of people will die if we go back to work and leave our homes everyday even without the virus, so what's the reasoning for ever going back to normal? I won't say that staying home is worth it "if it saves one life", but if it saves thousands, which it would? This is a serous question, with all those deaths resulting from living normally, how can we justify ever doing it again?
Exactly, Bagoh20.
I would love this question answered.
The other question I have: What will be required for triggering this response in the future?
Inga said...
So, I must ask, if Trump brings up the one million deaths as a possibility without mitigation, how is he not as much of a “PANIC-ER!” as those of us who believed him about the one million fatalities number? Are we panic-ers for believing Trump?
Trump is doing something much harder than predicting how many people will die or dealing with a crisis.
Remember in the beginning of this Nancy Pelosi was handing out pens impeaching Trump and senators were voting on whether or not to hear from John Bolton.
After Trump banned travel from China the democrat traitors trying to impeach him voted on a bill literally constraining his powers to deal with the COVID-19 "pandemic."
The media that was rooting for him to be impeached was blaring out democrats calling him xenophobic.
In the beginning we knew nothing. Trump made guesses based on what the experts in the bureaucracy were telling him.
He is also trying to project a sense of calm while the media and democrats are pushing panic.
What Trump is doing is much harder than dealing with a pandemic. He is dealing with a traitorous 5th column of shitheads like you and the media and the democrat party and a mass of panicky sheep like Ann Althouse and a bunch of uncompromising live free or die assholes like me.
He is doing decently.
Is there going to be a threshold?
Because the media and the Dems are saying he shutdowns should have happened sooner. Is that going to be the way we handle report of dangers in the future? Lockdown first, ask questions later?
Who would wear a mask on their house?
Joe Biden sent out a picture of himself and Jill wearing masks in their back yard. So you tell me.
What Trump is doing is much harder than dealing with a pandemic. He is dealing with a traitorous 5th column of shitheads like you and the media and the democrat party and a mass of panicky sheep like Ann Althouse and a bunch of uncompromising live free or die assholes like me.
Don't tell Inga that. She knows better.
Then I’d say that all you non panic-ers just go ahead and venture forth! Gather in crowds and be happy for it.
Inga- do you see no middle ground between: illegal to go to work, illegal to buy paint at the store, illegal to go to your own home in the same state and 'gather in crowds'? Do you think those are the only options?
I'm Not Sure said...
"But among the real stories are that people, everyday people in this country mostly live from paycheck to paycheck. Month to month. Year in and year out. They are mostly 1 pay gap away from getting behind."
I see lots of new cars on the street, certainly newer than mine. Summer weekends, there seem to be plenty of trucks out, hauling jet skis and boats to the lake and there are probably half a dozen self storage businesses within a short drive of my house, to hold all the stuff people don't have space for at home.
So I have to wonder at least a little bit about the rest of the story behind the "most people live paycheck to paycheck" stat that gets reported so regularly.
4/20/20, 10:34 AM
A LOT of folks live credit card to credit card. They acquire far more than they need or actually want. No one is used to "delayed gratification" any longer. If you really think you want it, you still will in three months. If so, then get it. Instead lots of folks whip out that plastic and get going, going.
A lot of these people DO live paycheck to paycheck. It is just that most of that money goes to credit card debt.
There are "true" poor people in America but look at how many folks pranced across the screen as poor have smart-phones, have flat-screen color TVs with cable, have a X-Box.
Most "poor" is the result of poor decisions. No self control.
"Society" has been forced (haha) to make up new words to describe this situation. They call it "loosy" things like "food insecurity". Not that anyone is actually going hungry and missing meals but that people are concerned about food. Yes there are folks that DO go hungry because they have no money to buy food BUT that is a very small percentage of those that fall into this other category (on purpose).
I purchased my first car in 1983. Drove it for 5 years (was actually a piece of crap when I bought it new - what did I know?), replaced it with a new car I drove for 15 years. Replaced that with a 2 year old car I drove for 15 years. Last year I replaced that with a "dealer loaner" that I expect to keep for 15 years. I have siblings that purchase new cars every 3 years. Can't explain some things to some folks.
So yes, I do believe there ARE people that are one paycheck from financial ruin. Choices have consequences. Most (not all but most) situations can be improved by making better choices.
“He doesn't personally strike me as someone who has panicked, though. He's not holed up In his house wearing a mask.”
Then I’d say that all you non panic-ers just go ahead and venture forth! Gather in crowds and be happy for it. Let’s see a Trump start doing those massive rallies he loves so much. Good idea? But no pretend to be upset when even more nursing home patients die by the thousands. After all, they were only old people, eh?
Who would wear a mask in their house?
Why did you delete that comment above and then post it after we've already answered it, Inga?
“Inga- do you see no middle ground between: illegal to go to work, illegal to buy paint at the store, illegal to go to your own home in the same state and 'gather in crowds'? Do you think those are the only options?”
I’d say lift all enforced mitigation. Let the people go! and let’s see what happens. Those who feel they should self distance some more should be allowed to do so with unemployment benefits until a time that the scientists think it’s safe for EVERYONE to go back to pre pandemic days. That’s one option anyway.
It's illegal to speak to any Russian, unless you're part of the Obama Re-set committee.
It's also illegal to look into Hillary corruption. it's illegal to speak of Joe Biden's corruption.
But these people know all about how wrong Trump is in every direction.
“Why did you delete that comment above and then post it after we've already answered it, Inga?”
To correct a spelling error, not to irritate you.
I Have Misplaced My Pants said...
Let's hold off on the applause for the doctors and nurses.
They have replaced, perhaps temporarily, the military as the object of Americans' weird need to venerate people based on the work that they do.
I am exercising my weird need by venerating grocery store clerks and long-haul truckers.
“I am exercising my weird need by venerating grocery store clerks and long-haul truckers.”
Hear hear! And add delivery people to that list of those to be weirdly venerated.
A few weeks ago they pointed at crowded subways as evidence the disease was nothing. Now they argue it’s deadly in NYC because of the subway. And that flip happened without a blink or murmur.
Like Jersey Fled, I missed those phantom posts that dishonest Ken references. I pondered on these pages why the subways would continue to operate during the social distancing because it sounded stupid to do that. I wasn't aware it was doubly stupid because Transit reduced the number of cars running so that subways remained crowded. I mean, if you think Trump is responsible because he didn't recommend stay-at-home until early March, how much more culpable are the mayor and governor in NY?
Of course we've all been wrong about things during this Panic-demic. I myself predicted the final body count would be about 20,000. That makes me currently wrong by a factor of 2, which is still makes me 96% more accurate than The Models used to shut down the country.
BCARM: Someone here, was arguing that the small business bailout was going great and there would be no problems with chain stores gaming the system. As predicted this is not the case:
You might want to rethink that:
“We now know that the first phase of the PPP was underfunded, and many who need it most, haven’t gotten any assistance,” [Danny Meyer, Shake Shack’s founder and CEO of its parent company, Union Square Hospitality Group, and Randy Garutti, Shake Shack’s CEO] wrote, urging Congress to ensure that “all restaurants no matter their size have equal ability to get back on their feet and hire back their teams.”
“Our people would benefit from a $10 million PPP loan, but we’re fortunate to now have access to capital that others do not,” they wrote. “Until every restaurant that needs it has had the same opportunity to receive assistance, we’re returning ours.
I’d say lift all enforced mitigation. Let the people go! and let’s see what happens. Those who feel they should self distance some more should be allowed to do so with unemployment benefits until a time that the scientists think it’s safe for EVERYONE to go back to pre pandemic days. That’s one option anyway.
So how could it possibly be scientifically safe for everyone to go back to work? It never has been and never will be.
Trump change his tune after polls showed low support for the social distancing snowflakes.
Trump's argument is that the medical establishment [and the left] left said there would be a million deaths but there haven't been that many, so social distancing worked. But since deaths are declining, open the economy.
And if you are a covid skeptic you think the number of deaths always was going to be like the number of deaths from flu so social distancing did nothing, we didn't need to close the economy, so open the economy.
So, consensus. Open the economy.
Then Trump praised the people whose work kept our hospitals from being overwhelmed. I have a godson working in the hospital supply chain system in Milwaukee and he is utterly exhausted. So I'm glad his efforts and those of others are being recognized. I think there was the potential for a runaway spread of the disease in hot-spot cities other than NYC accompanied by a runaway panic. This was prevented by a lot of people in the health care system working very hard.
But now, open the economy. The reporters, of course, can't see anything except whether a Dem or a Republican is talking and do not care at all, not a bit, whether what is being said benefits the country. All the press corpse thinks about is: what party benefits based on today's calculations of benefit. Some governors fear the bite from this zombie free press if they agree Trump and re-open. But if the governors don't want to make a decision, they could call in county execs and mayors and get their input. For instance, shut places like Cook county and Milwaukee county, if that's what the execs close to the situation (or close to the reporters) want; and open the rest of the Illinois and Wisconsin. It doesn't matter to reporters what happens outside NYC anyway, so let's go. They may not even know for weeks that we've opened everywhere else. After all, they haven't noticed anything unusual about Joe Biden and they think Jeffrey Epstein killed himself.
Mike (MJB Wolf) said...
Of course we've all been wrong about things during this Panic-demic. I myself predicted the final body count would be about 20,000. That makes me currently wrong by a factor of 2, which is still makes me 96% more accurate than The Models used to shut down the country.
The amount you are wrong will depend on how many more "presumed" and "assumed" deaths are added to the total.
This is all based on hot garbage and CYAs.
Things that panic people predicted that never happened:
- "OVERWHELMED" healthcare system
- Running out of ventilators, respirators, resuscitators needed
- Medical personnel "dropping like flies"
- Virulent community transmission
- "Correct" numbers out of China or WHO for China
- Prisons having nursing home-like outbreaks
- Democrats showing common sense and compassion for out-of-work small businesspeople
Nope. Never happened. So what's next?
Howard said...
Trump change his tune after polls showed low support for the social distancing snowflakes.
Intelligent people are able to see what Trump is actually doing and what he is actually dealing with as I listed in my above post.
Stupid people can't handle all of the context and post troll garbage.
"Ken B said...
With their burden shifting, changing standards of evidence, and flat out contradictions it reminds me of arguing with communists.
A nice example of the contradictions. A few weeks ago they pointed at crowded subways as evidence the disease was nothing. Now they argue it’s deadly in NYC because of the subway. And that flip happened without a blink or murmur"
Show us some examples of a "They" Ken. Meanwhile, why is that YOU are never in a thread about the economic devastation that these shutdowns have created?
“Trump's argument is that the medical establishment [and the left] left said there would be a million deaths but there haven't been that many, so social distancing worked.”
And Trump believed them. So Trump is a PANIC-ER!
If there's no variation in how we respond to this virus, how will we know what is the optimum response? I have relatives in North Dakota. I live in NYC. I hope my relatives in North Dakota use different tactics than I do here in NYC......I think Trump in the first part of his pressers is rambling and repetitive. Cuomo presents his info in a crisper, more intelligible way. The reason why I make point of watching Trump's pressers is because he tells those pompous assholes to fuck off.
And Trump believed them. So Trump is a PANIC-ER!
I mean, do you think this or do you think you are convincing other people of this. Have you read any of the responses to you?
“Things that panic people predicted that never happened:
- "OVERWHELMED" healthcare system
- Running out of ventilators, respirators, resuscitators needed
- Medical personnel "dropping like flies"
- Virulent community transmission”
Thanks to Trump’s support for mitigation!
We know for certain that thousands of people will die if we go back to work and leave our homes everyday even without the virus, so what's the reasoning for ever going back to normal? I won't say that staying home is worth it "if it saves one life", but if it saves thousands, which it would? This is a serous question, with all those deaths resulting from living normally, how can we justify ever doing it again?
*****************
Well, for starters, the economy would crash and burn, as the people who provide our food, clothing, shelter. means of transportation, gasoline, oil, and electricity stay home, and every supply chain on earth is broken to smithereens.
Result? Everyone would die a slow death, except for those who end theirs on purpose.
So cringing-in-place would NOT "save thousands" of lives. It would kill tens of millions, and ultimately, all of us.
wildswan, I agree with you re open the economy, but I fear that the mindfuck has been successfully completed and some percentage of the country will resist coming out again no matter what because they have been brainwashed into fear beyond all reason. There are people who think it’s not safe to come out until cv does not exist anymore. Who are incapable of functioning as long as there is a possibility they could become infected. What do we do with such people?
“I mean, do you think this or do you think you are convincing other people of this. Have you read any of the responses to you?”
It’s not my goal to convince people here of anything. I fully understand that they will believe what they want. I’m here to express my opinion. If that irritates you... oh well. I read all responses to my comments, that doesn’t mean I have to respond, some are worth ignoring.
Inga- thanks, So you think Trump is a panicker? I just want to be clear about what opinion you are expressing.
There are people who think it’s not safe to come out until cv does not exist anymore. Who are incapable of functioning as long as there is a possibility they could become infected. What do we do with such people?
Good question, pants.
Inga just recommended these people continue to be paid unemployment.
I am also curious at what point (and how) we can possibly determine there Is no longer the possibility someone might be infected. I know at one time Meade and Ken B wanted there to be testing every day of everyone before they could leave their home (or their cluster of homes). I wonder if either Meade or Ken B are still thinking this kind of testing is necessary, or if you are feeling more at ease with the odds of being able to live a more normal life without such (currently impossible) testing procedures.
Inga said ... The nursing home industry is a multi billion dollar industry and one of the dirtiest , most underhanded business there are. They make a huge profit off of warehousing the elderly and most vulnerable people in our society. Nursing homes are hell holes to live in and hell holes to work in, no matter what beautiful furnishings and decor they may have.
I generally agree based on my professional experience with nursing homes. However, nursing homes today have a two-fold purpose: rehab for all kinds of patients and end-of-life treatment for geriatrics. In that sense, nursing home stays are meant to short term. End-of-life patients are meant to pass in nursing homes (or transfer to home).
Let's not confuse nursing homes with senior care facilities that can be pretty nice. My MIL stays in a very nice, well managed one here in southern AZ. It's like an expensive college dorm for seniors. They have done an excellent job during the Wuhan coronavirus pandemic.
“Inga- thanks, So you think Trump is a panicker? I just want to be clear about what opinion you are expressing.”
He’s no more of a panic-er than us people that have been labeled PANIC-ERS! That is my point.
Mike (MJB Wolf) said...
Things that panic people predicted that never happened:
- "OVERWHELMED" healthcare system
This is not completely true. Our local hospitals were definitely working well past normal capacity and required help from staff arriving from upstate. Most normal hospital operations were put on hold or reduced to a minimum to make it through the peak. The system didn't collapse as it did in Italy, but it took a lot of extra resources and rationing to make this true. Many of the individual nurses and MDs had a very tough time. My understanding is that it was worse again in NYC. The local places that have been overwhelmed are the nursing homes. The local veteran's home has been through a very difficult period.
Day after day, the same people screaming the praises of the mitigation efforts dishonestly fail to account for this simple fact:
The projected numbers included mitigation efforts. And those projections aren't even coming close to actuality.
But even when this is pointed out time and time again, they claim it could've been worse.
No. Mitigation was about slowing the spread, you dishonest fucks. Not stopping it.
“Mike (MJB Wolf) said...
Things that panic people predicted that never happened:
- "OVERWHELMED" healthcare system”
“This is not completely true. Our local hospitals were definitely working well past normal capacity and required help from staff arriving from upstate. Most normal hospital operations were put on hold or reduced to a minimum to make it through the peak.”
True. Hospitals in New York came perilously close to being overwhelmed.
“The projected numbers included mitigation efforts.”
And Trump has said several times in his news conferences that he believed them to be accurate.
There are people who think it’s not safe to come out until cv does not exist anymore. Who are incapable of functioning as long as there is a possibility they could become infected. What do we do with such people?
Oh, ok. I disagree. I think you people who are really big panicers have pushed his options in the direction of over-reaction. Even so, he isn't someone who doesn't want the economy opened, who thinks the protesters should protest, or who thinks we need to test everyone or ensure there's no more COVID before we open back up. He still let Americans come back here from China, he still let cruise ships dock, and he's never told the more open states that they had to close down more.
I think you grabbed the wrong clip, MayBee - but I see what you meant to reply to.
*thinks the protesters shouldn't protest
thanks pants, you're right. Had the same clip from an earlier response to you and swan!
Responding to this:
He’s no more of a panic-er than us people that have been labeled PANIC-ERS! That is my point.
I said:
Oh, ok. I disagree. I think you people who are really big panicers have pushed his options in the direction of over-reaction. Even so, he isn't someone who doesn't want the economy opened, who thinks the protesters shouldn't protest, or who thinks we need to test everyone or ensure there's no more COVID before we open back up. He still let Americans come back here from China, he still let cruise ships dock, and he's never told the more open states that they had to close down more.
“This is going to be a painful two weeks,” Trump said. “Our strength will be tested, our endurance will be tried.”
By April 15, when the death count is expected to peak, more than 2,200 Americans will die of the disease per day, according to the model. Trump and Birx pointed to the University of Washington study on a call with governors on Monday.
“They’re shocking numbers, you know,” Trump said Tuesday. “You’re talking about deaths. Even at the low end you were shocked, when you see 100,000 -- 120,000 -- 200,000 -- people over a very short time.”
Trump said he envisioned some of the practices Americans have adopted -- such as refraining from shaking hands -- as lasting “long into the future.”
Bloomberg
I absolutely love the way Trump handles the MSM ankle-biters in the Q&A. He did *such* a job on the CNN puppy yesterday: a comprehensive beat-down without raising a sweat. Best part was his defending not himself but all those with whom he is working to fight this thing. As others have noted, that looked sincere and it is the kind of thing that will win strong loyalty. It's amazing how many people will crawl over broken glass to work for (or vote for) somebody who stands up for the "little people" who make big things possible.
I don't know Trump's history very well but it strikes me his experience with televised wrestling is very helpful here. He knows how to use that drama to deliver gratifying knock-down moves on tight timelines. Big obvious memorable moves. The journaiists get into the cage with him thinking they've got the best-ever Gotcha Question: and he just slips their grip and pile-drives them. Crowd goes wild.
Enjoying this immensely. And yes, as Prof. A has noted, this is his way of campaigning while doing his job. Win-win. ...Where's Biden: taking another nap?
Jim: "The projected numbers included mitigation efforts. And those projections aren't even coming close to actuality."
They started with "astronomical error," per Ioannidis. Then they revised, to make the errors merely gigantic. Fueling panic and the insanity epidemic. Not that any of them will do an honest mea culpa. They had "uncertainties" you see, and "lack of data," you see, and, well, better err on the side of "safety," you see.
But since it is now entirely obvious that heath systems are not overwhelmed, half the rationale for the shutdowns has disappeared. Let's accept the panickers convenient lie: mitigation worked! Now back to work.
Inga: But no pretend to be upset when even more nursing home patients die by the thousands. After all, they were only old people, eh?
How about telling the rest of us how much should be paid per life saved? Until you do that, your comment is just empty posturing.
Never mind that, and I'm sure Dr. Mike will correct me if I'm wrong, the whole point of these mitigation measures was to reduce rate, because extent is impossible to control. Presuming that is true, to near as makes no difference, the only real discussion is when people die of Mao Tse Lung, not if.
It’s not my goal to convince people here of anything. I fully understand that they will believe what reality shows them
FIFY, Inga! You don’t have to thank me.
"Well, for starters, the economy would crash and burn, as the people who provide our food, clothing, shelter. means of transportation, gasoline, oil, and electricity stay home, and every supply chain on earth is broken to smithereens.
Result? Everyone would die a slow death, except for those who end theirs on purpose.
So cringing-in-place would NOT "save thousands" of lives. It would kill tens of millions, and ultimately, all of us."
Of course, and that was the point of the question, but the deaths and destruction do not start suddenly on a given day, and can be prevented by experts telling us it's safe just in time, which it never is. The question is how much deaths from virus predicted or actual does it takes for us to destroy ourselves? There are and will be annual deaths like this and exceeding this. How many people need to die and be ruined to prevent people from dying and being ruined?
“Let's accept the panickers convenient lie: mitigation worked!”
Well, us panickers who believed the “lie” are in good company, our beloved President Trump!
I am just grateful that the US is facing this crisis with Trump in charge, and not Hillary Clinton. Who says amen to that?
Also, U.S. Grant had the same problem with music. Disliked it, thought it was all just irritating noise
Scott Adams says 30% of people have no sense of humor. I think there is an even larger number for those who don't enjoy music. I don't mean that they hate it, but just like the pop tunes others like and never dig for more. Like Adams says about humor, they wait to see how others react, then act accordingly. ie. "I LIKE that song too!".
I am one of those that live and breath music. I subscribe to Amazon's highest resolution unlimited streaming even though the audible difference can only be heard on my big stereo rig (which isn't happening with the shutdown and others at home). I hear different time signatures. I am able pull out all the individual instruments in a bubbling stew as well as enjoy the stew.
I think most people just hear the stew and like either the beat and/or the melody.
Weird to me but, like with the humorless, I've learned to accept it and enjoy myself.
So, I must ask, if Trump brings up the one million deaths as a possibility without mitigation, how is he not as much of a “PANIC-ER!” as those of us who believed him about the one million fatalities number? Are we panic-ers for believing Trump?
No, you are "panic-ers" because that's the approach you take. You are perpetually afraid that your agenda will not be accepted by voters. The way it was, the way it is and the way it will be.
"Movie theaters are over. Home streaming is becoming ubiquitous, and those who were not on the streaming bus before are getting on it now"
Jim Gust, you sound like me in late 1990's believing that the AMC mega-plexes would be dead in 10 years. I too thought on demand, home streaming would be the death knell of sitting in gum and urine infused theatre seating and listening to people chew with their mouths open.
The key demographic that Move theaters appeal to feel invulnerable to this virus, thus they should be filled up again within weeks of lifting the quarantine to watch a reboot of The Love Boat" with a totally trans cast.
“President Donald Trump said growth in new coronavirus infections stabilized and new hospitalizations in hot spots like New York slowed over the weekend, providing “clear evidence that our aggressive strategy to combat the virus is working.”
“Over the weekend, the number of daily new infections remained flat, nationwide flat,” Trump said at a White House press conference with the coronavirus task force on Monday. “Hospitalizations are slowing in hot spots like New York, New Jersey, Michigan and Louisiana. This is clear evidence that our aggressive strategy to combat the virus is working and that Americans are following the guidelines.””
CNBC
He even thanked the American people for social distancing. You’re welcome Mr. President!
I’ll end here because I think I’ve made my point, which is that if you accuse us of being PANICKERS!, then you must accuse Trump of the very same, unless you’re dishonest.
A newspaper cartoon I recall from my youth. Panel 1 : a man shredding a newspaper in his front lawn. Panel 2. Neighbor asking What are you doing? Panel 3. Putting down paper to keep the elephants away Panel 4. Neighbor says there are no elephants. 5. It is working.
I’ll end here because I think I’ve made my point, which is that if you accuse us of being PANICKERS!, then you must accuse Trump of the very same, unless you’re dishonest.
Your point is apparently that you'll keep repeating what you think is a gotcha, no matter how many people tell you why they don't agree with you.
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