Althouse: At the Sunrise Café...

April 21, 2020

At the Sunrise Café...

11B63A5A-9365-4CB4-A3CF-06DF020FE7E8_1_201_a

... you can talk 'til dawn.

235 comments:

1 – 200 of 235 Newer› Newest»

Jersey Fled said...: This picture looks very familiar; 4/21/20, 7:58 PM
J. Farmer said...: Fun fact: orange's complementary color (in RYB) is azure, and this is the origin of so called "safety orange" (e.g. vests, traffic cones, prison jumpsuits, etc.); 4/21/20, 8:02 PM
Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...: who charges more for their harvested organs?

...China, or Planned Parenthood?; 4/21/20, 8:07 PM
ngtrains said...: Testing - testing-testing

information as of the end of 2/20 (11pm 1st)

There has been testing in all 50 states.
just 23,000 short of 4,000,000 tests.that just over 1% of the population -
but remember that not anyone can be tested. primarily they test people
with some sort of symptom.

OK - results to date in one state - 49.9% of the people tested are positive - New Jersey
NY is 39,9% positive. CT 31%, MI 28%, MA 24%, GA 23, Co 21, DC 21,PA 21, LA 17
All others under 20%
lowest state - north Dakota 2.42% positive.

Median of states - 10.55%
Average (wtd by population) 15.98%
22 states are under 10%.

Fauci made statement that if the testing shows 10% or less positives -
then they are oversampling.

I would expect that widespread sampling would lower the high % test states.

I recognize that these are not random sample tests, but the low % of many states
says to me that in those states it may be logical to start reopening some
of the economy.; 4/21/20, 8:07 PM
narciso said...: its like dejavu all over again; 4/21/20, 8:08 PM
Inga said...: In the last month, far more people died in these countries than in previous years, The New York Times found. The totals include deaths from Covid-19 as well as those from other causes, likely including people who could not be treated as hospitals became overwhelmed.

Where we found higher deaths than normal
AREA PCT. ABOVE NORMAL EXCESS DEATHS − REPORTED COVID-19 DEATHS = DIFFERENCE
Spain
Mar. 9 - Apr. 5 66% 19,700 − 12,401 = 7,300
England & Wales
Mar. 7 - Apr. 10 33% 16,700 − 10,335 = 6,300
New York City
Mar. 11 - Apr. 18 298% 17,200 − 13,240 = 4,000
France
Mar. 9 - Apr. 5 21% 10,500 − 8,059 = 2,500
Netherlands
Mar. 9 - Apr. 5 33% 4,000 − 2,166 = 1,900
Istanbul
Mar. 9 - Apr. 12 29% 2,100 − 1,006 = 1,100
Jakarta
March 36% 1,000 − 84 = 900
Belgium
Mar. 9 - Apr. 5 25% 2,300 − 1,632 = 700
Switzerland
Mar. 9 - Apr. 5 21% 1,000 − 712 = 300
Sweden
Mar. 9 - Apr. 12 12% 1,100 − 1,160 = -50

These numbers undermine the notion that many people who have died from the virus may soon have died anyway. In Paris, more than twice the usual number of people have died each day, far more than the peak of a bad flu season. In New York City, the number is now four times the normal amount.; 4/21/20, 8:09 PM
Drago said...: It's all coming out now:

In an exclusive clip from the Showtime documentary “The Longest War,” premiering April 19, CIA agents explain how Bill Clinton blocked the U.S. from killing Osama bin Laden."

https://www.thedailybeast.com/cia-agents-reveal-how-bill-clinton-stopped-them-from-killing-osama-bin-laden-and-preventing-911?ref=scroll

And as of today, we now know for a fact that the democrats second best "republican" friend ever (Romney has assumed the title of best democrat in Republican livery), John McCain, was indeed one of the schmucks who leaked the obviously hoax dossier to the media...and FBI lovers Lisa Page and Strzok and a bunch of other FBI'ers thought it was all just hilarious, according to their texts and emails.

So, that makes it just about 100% that every single claim made by the dems/LLR's against Trump during that entire sordid episode was a cooked up lie foisted on the American public.

And every single dem/lefty/LLR-lefty at Althouseblog bought into every single one of the hundreds of lies during that entire period.

Without exception.; 4/21/20, 8:13 PM
320Busdriver said...: I recognize that these are not random sample tests, but the low % of many states
says to me that in those states it may be logical to start reopening some
of the economy.

Unless you live in WI with the puppet Governor; 4/21/20, 8:15 PM
Drago said...: Inga the incredibly dishonest hack liar is now attempting to make New York City representative of the US as a whole, when in fact the US as a whole has fewer deaths to date in 2020 than in previous years.

Such dishonest hackery from Inga has, obviously, been par for the course for many years now, but still one marvels at how she keeps it up.; 4/21/20, 8:15 PM
320Busdriver said...: Could be worse though.

Whitmer was caught giving left leaning data miner entity contact tracing contract in MI. Tsk tsk; 4/21/20, 8:18 PM
Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...: Pelosi's approval rating: SUB ZERO; 4/21/20, 8:19 PM
Yancey Ward said...: I have loved the last two evening cafe pictures- both just stunningly perfect.; 4/21/20, 8:19 PM
Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...: Let's see what the Republican controlled Senate report has to say:

'All analysts expressed that they were free to debate, object to content, and assess confidence levels, as is normal and proper for the analytic process'

'While noting details of disagreement in content and confidence levels as reviewed above, the Committee heard no significant criticisms or objections to the ICA process, or the resulting paper, from all the analysts, managers, and agency heads interviewed. Every witness interviewed believed the collaboration was transparent and professionally candid, including disagreements over confidence levels. Every witness interviewed by the Committee stated that he or she saw no attempts or pressure to politicize the findings.'

Republican Senator Richard Burr, the panel chairman, said:
'The ICA reflects strong tradecraft, sound analytical reasoning, and proper justification of disagreement in the one analytical line where it occurred. The Committee found no reason to dispute the Intelligence Community's conclusions.'

The Senate report endorsed the core conclusions of the intelligence community assessment that Russia had interfered on a grand scale in the 2016 U.S. presidential election and that Russian President Vladimir Putin directed the interference. 'The Committee found that specific intelligence as well as open source assessments support the assessment that President Putin approved and directed aspects of this influence campaign,' the Senate report states.; 4/21/20, 8:21 PM
Drago said...: 320Busdriver: "Could be worse though.

Whitmer was caught giving left leaning data miner entity contact tracing contract in MI. Tsk tsk"

Indeed. She was happy to use taxpayer funds to support the democrat party data collection/electioneering operation because of course she was.

Get ready for lots more of that.

Never let a crisis go to waste.; 4/21/20, 8:21 PM
Inga said...: “We estimated the excess mortality for each country by comparing the number of people who died from all causes this year with the historical average during the same period. The Economist is also tracking these deaths, known as excess deaths, in this way.

In many European countries, recent data show 20 to 30 percent more people have been dying than normal. That translates to tens of thousands of more deaths.

Deviations from normal patterns of deaths have been confirmed in many European countries, according to data released by the European Mortality Monitoring Project, a research group that collects weekly mortality data from 24 European countries.

Today’s rise in all-cause mortality takes place under conditions of extraordinary measures, such as social distancing, lockdowns, closed borders and increased medical care, at least some which have positive impacts,” said Vladimir Shkolnikov, a demographer at the Max Planck Institute for Demographic Research. “It is likely that without these measures, the current death toll would be even higher.””

From my link above.; 4/21/20, 8:22 PM
rhhardin said...: Fun fact: orange's complementary color (in RYB) is azure, and this is the origin of so called "safety orange" (e.g. vests, traffic cones, prison jumpsuits, etc.)

Safety vests work by absorbing UV and re-radiating it as a visible color (orange, green). That makes that color brighter than normal and hence noticeable.

It doesn't work when there's no UV (ordinary headlights, say). It works best at twilight when the sky is all UV and everything else is darkish.

It doesn't work if you're standing in the shade on a bright day - the color isn't remarkably bright compared to other things because there's not much UV there.; 4/21/20, 8:25 PM
Drago said...: ARM: "Let's see what the Republican controlled Senate report has to say:"

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

The Senate report has already been completely destroyed by the IG reports and FOIA releases.

Utterly destroyed.

You know what the best part of the debunked Senate IC report was?

Can you guess?

Go ahead, guess......(I'll wait).......

..................give up?

Okay, I'll tell you: a key part of the Senate Intel report is the.......HOAX DOSSIER!!!!

I mean, how can it get any better than that?

Yeah, I wonder what it was that Burr was promised? I'll bet its something good for when he leaves office in 2022. You did know that he had already announced he was leaving in 2022, right? Now why would a former lawnmower salesman leave the cushiest gig ever in the US Senate when he is still relatively young?

Because last year he knew all this was going to come out.

Sorry ARM, your Senate Intel report from years ago has long ago been blown out of the water.

ARM is reverting to LLR-lefty C**** and Inga form by pretending what we thought we knew in 2017 is still operative.

Now isn't that just like a Beijing Boy?; 4/21/20, 8:26 PM
stevew said...: I won't make it to dawn awake.

Hopefully the governors will follow the numbers, isolate those at risk, release the rest. The expression of federalism will show us the way. Locking everything down through the end of June, as my governor has announced today, will only bring about resistance and protest.

Open it up now. Protect the old, the weak, the ill.; 4/21/20, 8:27 PM
Drago said...: Inga: "In many European countries, recent data show 20 to 30 percent more people have been dying than normal. That translates to tens of thousands of more deaths"

LOL

"In many...."

Which means not all.

Shouldn't we be focusing on those nations that have lower death rates than in previous years?; 4/21/20, 8:27 PM
Mark said...: Beware the purveyors of despair.; 4/21/20, 8:27 PM
Jersey Fled said...: New srudy by Swedish Public Health Administration indicates that for every confirmed case of COVID-19, a further 999 people are likely to have been infected with the virus without knowing it.; 4/21/20, 8:29 PM
Milwaukie guy said...: A great sunrise for a great day. America's opening up. Putting some T-bones on the grill and shooting beer cans out of the leaf blower.; 4/21/20, 8:29 PM
Jersey Fled said...: I need to start proofreading my posts.; 4/21/20, 8:29 PM
Yancey Ward said...: Inga, this part is not correct:

These numbers undermine the notion that many people who have died from the virus may soon have died anyway. In Paris, more than twice the usual number of people have died each day, far more than the peak of a bad flu season. In New York City, the number is now four times the normal amount.

The stats you gave don't undermine the claim- they don't even address the claim since few people are claiming that COVID is killing only people who were going to die in March/April. The thing to look for in in the near future- the next 6-12 months after the pandemic (but you can start looking earlier). People who died of COVID-19 from the 1st week of March to the first week of April can't die of something else in the next year.

I bet once the pandemic ends, we will see total deaths from age cohort 65-up to show a measurable drop because the deaths were pulled forward by a year or two by the coronavirus. Someone will do this study, and I will keep an eye out for it.; 4/21/20, 8:31 PM
J. Farmer said...: @Drago:

In an exclusive clip from the Showtime documentary “The Longest War,” premiering April 19, CIA agents explain how Bill Clinton blocked the U.S. from killing Osama bin Laden."

Exclusive clip revealing information that's been known for almost 20 years. This, along with many other missed opportunities to get in Laden, are detailed in the 9/11 report. Also, at least one plan to get him with cruise missiles was abandoned of the proximity of an Emirati, and one was rejected over concerns for the reliability of the intelligence. That would suggest that the "lethal finding" was not a primary factor.; 4/21/20, 8:31 PM
YoungHegelian said...: you can talk 'til dawn.

But when dawn comes, you assholes better STFUA!

Ya hear?!; 4/21/20, 8:33 PM
Drago said...: Beijing Boy ARM probably still thinks Comey, Brennan and Clapper are reputable sources.

LOL

ARM doesn't even realize that we now, as of 48 hours ago, have the actual transcripts for the conversations between Brennans CIA helper boy Halper, along with the Clinton Foundation suck up Australian Alexander Downer, where Halper was so obviously pushing disinformation and frame up material with Papadopolous shooting down each little set up line as Halper threw them up.

That was when Strzok and Bill Priestap were in London coordinating things with MI6 to facilitate the frame up.

You wanna know what else came out just this week? It's good.

FBI hack Bill Priestap admitted under oath that the FBI hid concerns about the legitimacy of the hoax dossier and Christopher Steele from the FISA court because (are you ready for this?) Priestap had promised his MI6 counterpart that any negative info on Steele, which would reflect poorly on MI6, would not be shared with the US FISA court!

LOL

Solid work Senate Intel Committee!!; 4/21/20, 8:34 PM
Drago said...: Farmer: "Exclusive clip revealing information that's been known for almost 20 years."

Have "we" known that?

I'll bet if you ran that little tidbit by Inga and ARM they would call you a liar.; 4/21/20, 8:35 PM
Jersey Fled said...: Governor Phil (what Bill of Rights?) Murphy is proof positive that you don't have to be terribly bright to make lots of money at Goldman Sachs.; 4/21/20, 8:36 PM
Drago said...: If this week's disclosures become any worse for ARM and Inga, they will be reduced to going back to October of 2016 talking points!; 4/21/20, 8:36 PM
J. Farmer said...: @Drago:

Have "we" known that?

Certainly can't speak for everyone, but I thought Clinton's failures to get bin Laden was common knowledge.; 4/21/20, 8:36 PM
Mark said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 4/21/20, 8:36 PM
Yancey Ward said...: Yes, Drago is correct- the IG report makes the Senate Intel Report look like a complete fraud at this point in time, and this was done with Horowitz doing all he could to not expose too much about how fraudulant the entire Crossfire Hurricane investigation was.; 4/21/20, 8:37 PM
Mark said...: NSS

The Russians/Soviets sought to sow confusion, controversy and discord in the 2016 elections.

The Russians/Soviets sought to sow confusion, controversy and discord in the 2012 elections.

The Russians/Soviets sought to sow confusion, controversy and discord in the 2008 elections.

The Russians/Soviets sought to sow confusion, controversy and discord in the 2004 elections.

The Russians/Soviets sought to sow confusion, controversy and discord in the 2000 elections.

The Russians/Soviets sought to sow confusion, controversy and discord in the 1996 elections.

The Russians/Soviets sought to sow confusion, controversy and discord in the 1992 elections.

The Russians/Soviets sought to sow confusion, controversy and discord in the 1988 elections.

The Russians/Soviets sought to sow confusion, controversy and discord in the 1984 elections.

The Russians/Soviets sought to sow confusion, controversy and discord in the 1976 elections.

The Russians/Soviets sought to sow confusion, controversy and discord in the 1972 elections.

The Russians/Soviets sought to sow confusion, controversy and discord in the 1968 elections.

The Russians/Soviets sought to sow confusion, controversy and discord in the 1964 elections.

The Russians/Soviets sought to sow confusion, controversy and discord in the 1960 elections.

The Russians/Soviets sought to sow confusion, controversy and discord in the 1956 elections.

The Russians/Soviets sought to sow confusion, controversy and discord in the 1952 elections.

The Russians/Soviets sought to sow confusion, controversy and discord in the 1948 elections.

The Russians/Soviets probably sought to sow confusion, controversy and discord even in the 1944 elections.

It's no big secret. That's what the Russians and Soviets do.; 4/21/20, 8:37 PM
Drago said...: No Mark.

What the dems/LLR's have been claiming is that Putin and the Kremlin intervened to specifically help Trump win the election.

As of this week, we now know the PRECISE OPPOSITE is true.

Every single lie told by the left/LLR-left for 4+ years has been turned on its head.

I fully expect lots more links from ARM and Inga and others referencing 2016/2017 "reports" that have been destroyed by the actual evidence emerging since then.; 4/21/20, 8:39 PM
narciso said...: Is that why disney memory holed the road to 9/11, for pointing out these facts,; 4/21/20, 8:39 PM
Sebastian said...: "New study by Swedish Public Health Administration indicates that for every confirmed case of COVID-19, a further 999 people are likely to have been infected with the virus without knowing it."

Say it ain't so! Worst plague ever! Can you imagine the horror of a silent invader so sneaky, so insidious, that most people are entirely unaware of it? I mean, at least with the flu, you kinda know.; 4/21/20, 8:40 PM
Ken B said...: Jersey Fled is peddling nonsense again. You notice he has no link?
“This story corrects to remove paragraph saying "The study estimated that for each case confirmed by the authorities, 999 milder cases were not recorded because people did not seek medical help" after Sweden's Health Authority retracted that part of its statement, saying it was incorrect.”
https://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2020/04/21/world/europe/21reuters-health-coronavirus-sweden.html; 4/21/20, 8:40 PM
ngtrains said...: Ann: your photos the past few days are marvelous. the play of the light on the waves is so much more interesting than the light on the ice. Really breakes up the color. Really great photos. thanks; 4/21/20, 8:40 PM
narciso said...: Does the report mention adam waldman, mark warners cut out to christopher steele who worked for deripaska (as had steele) and the russian foreign ministry.; 4/21/20, 8:42 PM
Ken B said...: “ Certainly can't speak for everyone, but I thought Clinton's failures to get bin Laden was common knowledge.”

I knew it years ago. It was much discussed at the time Obama got OBL, and probably earlier.; 4/21/20, 8:42 PM
Drago said...: Farmer: "Certainly can't speak for everyone, but I thought Clinton's failures to get bin Laden was common knowledge."

You make a good point, so what I'll say is that, like the Gorelick Wall which was an embargoed factoid by the MSM after 9-11, you'd have to be quite steeped in the inner story to be aware of it, so complete was the MSM whitewash of democrat culpability.

Remember the catchphrase that was everywhere after 9-11: Bush MIHOP/LIHOP (Made it happen on purpose/let it happen on purpose). This was combined with the lies about the WTC towers being brought down by controlled explosives, most likely planted by our own CIA.

Early Inga's/ARM's pushed those lies continuously and you'll still find lots of lefties/LLR-lefties on board with that.

So in this case, with a Daily Beast reporting this, vs say a Daily Caller, it means that at least some liberals/leftists are willing to openly discuss the truth.

No doubt at this time because Hillary and Bill are no longer useful and the majority of the party is happy to see them go.; 4/21/20, 8:43 PM
narciso said...: It was covered with a pillow till it stopped moving, one thing about tarnak farms was a discreet target, not like the mountains of tora bora which cover a rather large territory.; 4/21/20, 8:45 PM
Jersey Fled said...: For the personal benefit of Ken B:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidnikel/2020/04/21/sweden-600000-coronavirus-infections-in-stockholm-by-may-1-model-estimates/#115e744578d6; 4/21/20, 8:45 PM
Jon Ericson said...: Jane,; 4/21/20, 8:45 PM
J. Farmer said...: Say it ain't so! Worst plague ever! Can you imagine the horror of a silent invader so sneaky, so insidious, that most people are entirely unaware of it? I mean, at least with the flu, you kinda know.

I drove my car today and was't injured. Seat belts are useless!; 4/21/20, 8:47 PM
Ken B said...: Jersey Fled
Did you see the correction from 9 hours ago that even then, 9 hours ago, noted the claim was false and had been retracted?
Instead you link a false story!; 4/21/20, 8:47 PM
Jersey Fled said...: Ken B

And where is your link?; 4/21/20, 8:49 PM
Inga said...: “Certainly can't speak for everyone, but I thought Clinton's failures to get bin Laden was common knowledge.”

It was and it still is.; 4/21/20, 8:50 PM
Ken B said...: “ Ken B

And where is your link?”

In my 8:40 comment, where I quoted the correction notice.; 4/21/20, 8:52 PM
Jersey Fled said...: Forbes article is still on their web site as of this minute.

No correction.; 4/21/20, 8:53 PM
Drago said...: narciso: "Does the report mention adam waldman, mark warners cut out to christopher steele who worked for deripaska (as had steele) and the russian foreign ministry."

This is a good point to bring up.

Mark Warner attempted to use a FusionGPS affiliated piece of crap named Adam Waldman to connect, secretly, with Deripaska. Warner did this without permission of Chairman Burr (LOL) because Warner knows that Burr answers to him.

When he was found out making secret entreaties to meet with Deripaska, Burr rode in on a white stallion to save Warner's skin, since Warner's actions were in complete violation of Senate Intel Committee standing rules.

That was the second indication just how compromised Burr had become. The first, recall, was Burr working with the dems to sideline Devin Nunes for daring to actually investigate.

Remember, the Nunes memo, issued in 2017, has been completely vindicated on every single point while the Adam Schiff-ty list of lies has been completely destroyed.

But Burr help sideline Nunes to help things along.

Last point: Deripaska himself has spoken publicly about how Strzok and other FBI'ers came to him in NYC to ask him to lie about Manafort, Trump and the Trump campaign, with a few not too subtle threats thrown in.

And this is the very best part: Deripaska HATES Manafort....but what the FBI was asking him to lie about was so stupid and over the top Deripaska told them to get lost!

I'll bet Strzok cried himself to sleep in Lisa Pages arms after that failure!; 4/21/20, 8:53 PM
Drago said...: Russian Collusion Truther Inga: "It was and it still is."

LOL; 4/21/20, 8:54 PM
Ken B said...: Fled
Right. The Forbes article, by a travel writer, which you link is still stating a falsehood. The NYT article which I linked and quoted stated that the statement from the Swedes was RETRACTED by them because it was FALSE.; 4/21/20, 8:55 PM
narciso said...: Im not terribly impressed by intelligence assessment or committee reports, take the 9/11 report that omitted the 28 pages, which is about the support network in the country that enabled the attacks. From san diegp to new jersey; 4/21/20, 8:56 PM
Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...: Only the best people:

GOP chairman: Large chains should not have received small business coronavirus aid

Duh.; 4/21/20, 8:57 PM
Jersey Fled said...: Ken B:

You linked to an article that is behind a pay wall.

Slick move.; 4/21/20, 8:57 PM
Drago said...: Here's a blast from the past (2011) and interestingly, also from Ben Smith (very timely):

"More than half of Democrats believed Bush knew"
By BEN SMITH 04/22/2011 11:05 AM EDT

"That is: More than half of Democrats, according to a neutral survey, said they believed Bush was complicit in the 9/11 terror attacks."

https://www.politico.com/blogs/ben-smith/2011/04/more-than-half-of-democrats-believed-bush-knew-035224; 4/21/20, 8:57 PM
Drago said...: I see ARM has wisely retreated from his debunked 2017 hoaxed dossier-dependent Senate "intel" report!

Maybe you can teach old Beijing Boy's new tricks.; 4/21/20, 8:58 PM
Mark said...: Beware the purveyors of despair.

Washington Post headlines --
CDC director warns second wave of coronavirus is likely to be even more devastating
The nation’s top public health official warned that a second wave of the novel coronavirus would probably coincide with the start of flu season and could overwhelm the health system.

Anti-malarial drug Trump touted is linked to higher rates of death in VA coronavirus patients, study says

Georgia leads the race to become America’s No. 1 Death Destination

I’m an Asian American doctor on the front lines of two wars: Coronavirus and racism
_________________________

Drudge -
CA CASES RISING
BIG FIRMS GRAB SMALL BIZ FUNDS
SHAME LIST
WHO: Get used to new way of living...
NYC Residents Flee -- Permanently...
STUDY: Virus has mutated into 30 different strains...
More deaths, no benefit from malaria drug...
Death of Dept Store: 'Very Few Likely to Survive'...
Virus Risks Political and Social Unrest With Hunger Rising...
How Singapore flipped from corona hero to cautionary tale...
Can Colleges Survive? 'The Math Is Not Pretty'...; 4/21/20, 8:58 PM
William said...: Okay, food is more important than voting, but here in NYC people line up for food pantries in longer lines than they did in Milwaukee. Not everyone in line wears a face mask and some cluster in sociable groups. I doubt if there will be any investigative journalists who report on food pantry line COVID deaths......I can understand the protective measures taken in NYC, and I obey the rules within stores. Still, I have my doubts whether it is possible for two unmasked strangers who pass by each other on the sidewalk to thereby pass on the virus to each other. I guess it's theoretically possible, but I don't think it happens very often or, in fact, at all....The media seem to studiously ignore the fact that the subways are crowded and used for shelter by the homeless at night. My guess is that that is more the cause of burgeoning NYC infection rates than unmasked strangers walking by each other.; 4/21/20, 9:00 PM
Drago said...: Mark: "Beware the purveyors of despair."

Anti-malarial drug Trump touted is linked to higher rates of death in VA coronavirus patients, study says

Looks like the application of HCQ as a last resort is going to be used to discredit it as a treatment option by the left/LLR-left, so desperate are they to discredit anything Trump calls out.

But then again, we knew that was going to happen.; 4/21/20, 9:00 PM
Sebastian said...: Drago: "As of this week, we now know the PRECISE OPPOSITE is true.Every single lie told by the left/LLR-left for 4+ years has been turned on its head."

That's the remarkable thing, isn't it?

Not just that some prog claims turned out to be false, as we knew from the outset.

Not just that the deep state manipulated the process, as we have said all along.

Not just that there was dirty dealing from day one--actually, from before day one, as Hayden has explained.

Not just that there was no Trump-Putin collusion, which we knew to be a ridiculous hoax in any case.

But that everything turned out to be the exact opposite of what was claimed: collusion by Hill, the Dems, Fusion GPS, Steele, and the FBI with Russian informants, to frame American citizens, spy on a campaign, and then undermine an administration.

It is an outrage, of course. But it also raises, once again, a question the sane part of the commentariat has addressed before: why? It was, after all, a remarkable gamble--that they might have enough to pin on Trump, that they might help to defeat him somehow, AND that nothing would come out. I understand the various theories offered -- for example, that it may have started with search abuses long ago, that perhaps the campaign abuse was meant to cover for the prior abuse, and then the post-election abuse for the campaign abuse, and then the Mueller investigation to keep it all under wraps.

But whatever the precise motivation of the key actors, notably Brennan, the other striking fact remains that they were all quite confident that it would not become known. Or did they assume that, even if it would all be revealed, they would escape accountability? Was that the real gamble -- that the deep state was deep enough, and Dem/MSM support strong enough, and the powers involved, from O to Hill, important enough, to cushion any impact?; 4/21/20, 9:00 PM
J. Farmer said...: @narciso:

Im not terribly impressed by intelligence assessment or committee reports, take the 9/11 report that omitted the 28 pages, which is about the support network in the country that enabled the attacks. From san diegp to new jersey,

One of the many corrosive effects of our anachronistic relationship with the Saudis. Remaining so intimately involved in the middle east is such a counterproductive strategy. It costs us a great deal and gets us next to nothing.; 4/21/20, 9:02 PM
Drago said...: New York City still hasn't closed Central Park or the Subways....but the entire pantheon of lefty idiots is complaining about Florida beaches opening up.

Those same lefty idiots are also still in favor open borders for illegals to stream across while Americans are told to stay in their homes and the dems send armed police into churches on Easter to harass Christians (Mosques, apparently, remain untouched and unremarked upon by these same dems).; 4/21/20, 9:03 PM
Drago said...: Sebastian: "But that everything turned out to be the exact opposite of what was claimed: collusion by Hill, the Dems, Fusion GPS, Steele, and the FBI with Russian informants, to frame American citizens, spy on a campaign, and then undermine an administration."

Bears repeating.; 4/21/20, 9:04 PM
Ken B said...: Fled
I don’t subscribe, I saw it. Maybe you read too many NYT articles.
It’s a Reuter’s story, appears several places. Here's another link since Google appears to not work for you either.
https://www.theguardian.pe.ca/news/world/swedish-health-agency-says-virus-has-peaked-in-stockholm-no-easing-of-restrictions-yet-440244/

The Guardian Covid articles are free.; 4/21/20, 9:05 PM
Andy said...: The Rubin Report: Dave interviews his husband tells story of private meeting with Trump. Very humanizing and cool story to hear.; 4/21/20, 9:05 PM
Churchy LaFemme: said...: Jane,

Just for fun, I try to guess youtube links before clicking. I guessed wrong this time. Figured it would be this.; 4/21/20, 9:05 PM
J. Farmer said...: @Drago:

"That is: More than half of Democrats, according to a neutral survey, said they believed Bush was complicit in the 9/11 terror attacks."

Talk about clickbait!

"How likely is it that people in the federal government either assisted in the 9/11 attacks or took no action to stop the attacks because they wanted the United States to go to war in the Middle East?" the poll asked.

A full 22.6% of Democrats said it was "very likely." Another 28.2% called it "somewhat likely."; 4/21/20, 9:05 PM
Mark said...: Straining at gnats.

Ruth's Chris Steak House, which has 150 locations and $468 million in revenue, received $20 million in loans. The sandwich chain Potbelly, which has more than 400 locations, and Shake Shack, with more than 200 branches, each received $10 million from the fund.

Leaving aside the matter of PPP going toward workforce retention -- keeping people in their jobs rather than dumping them onto unemployment -- granting that these companies might appear to run afoul of the 500-employee rule, we are talking about $40 million in the case of these three companies. $40 million out of a $350 billion relief package -- less than 0.1 percent -- as part of a $2 trillion bill.

The time I've taken to type this out is far more time than the "controversy" is worth.; 4/21/20, 9:05 PM
William said...: I have a sure fire way for Stacy Abrams to light the fire under her VP campaign. Obesity is a known and, perhaps, the most significant co-morbidity in the virus epidemic. If she went on a diet and knocked off some of that excess weight, she could be a source of inspiration to many of her followers. Perhaps they, also, could achieve dramatic weight gains. Many lives would be saved. Biden would love to have a sleek, thin Stacy by his side to help him penetrate the black demographic.; 4/21/20, 9:07 PM
Ken B said...: Mark
Not really. The incentive effect of bad publicity will keep some other companies from such behavior.; 4/21/20, 9:08 PM
Drago said...: Farmer: "Talk about clickbait!"

Guilty!

You've found me out.

Now, I must destroy you.; 4/21/20, 9:09 PM
Jon Ericson said...: "Intelligence"; 4/21/20, 9:09 PM
Inga said...: Mark if you stick your fingers in your ears and sing lalalalala, you won’t hear any bad news.

In the meantime for your gustatory pleasure, I made a chocolate cherry cake with Ermine frosting. Of course I had to cut in into fourths and freeze 3/4 of it.; 4/21/20, 9:10 PM
Drago said...: By the way, if you want to know why so much info about Inga's and ARM's beloved but debunked Russia collusion hoax is coming out now, look no further than Richard Grenell being named acting Director of National Intelligence.

Prior to that, republican insider/deep stater Sen Dan Coates sat on every FOIA request and would let nothing come out.

Just another Richard Burr.

Both Coates and Burr will be richly awarded by the establishment in the years to come.; 4/21/20, 9:11 PM
Josephbleau said...: When Putin published his devastating Jesus arm wrestling videos and thereby stole the election from Hillary I bet he felt good that fracking and oil leases would soon be banned and he would be rolling in oil money. But now Putin pal oligarchs will have to trade in their Oil leases for monopolies on canned borscht to sell on the streets. Even the FSB can have a bad day eh? I know, the virus, but Putin could have done more, and done it sooner. (Sorry.); 4/21/20, 9:11 PM
narciso said...: Its bizarre i thought that the house wrote this atupid bill, pelosi being the chair, appropriations being the source committee, whos the chair there.; 4/21/20, 9:12 PM
Mark said...: Yeah, the waitstaff and bussers and cooks at Ruth's Chris and Potbelly don't deserve to keep their jobs. It's their own fault for working for such selfish, evil companies.; 4/21/20, 9:12 PM
J. Farmer said...: @Drago:

Now, I must destroy you.

Ha. It's Ben Smith. I think he practically invented clickbait.; 4/21/20, 9:14 PM
Mark said...: Don't let it be said that the Washington Post never runs positive headlines/stories:

Dixie Chicks postpone release of ‘Gaslighter,’ their first new album in 14 years; 4/21/20, 9:14 PM
Mark said...: I've eaten too much cheese to have cake. Thanks anyway.; 4/21/20, 9:15 PM
Ken B said...: Inga
What is ermine frosting?; 4/21/20, 9:16 PM
narciso said...: Ben smithing means to minimize facts that impinge on progressive viewpoints, he started at politico, then buzzfeed then at the times.; 4/21/20, 9:16 PM
Mark said...: Mimi Rogers walks into the bedroom. A sleeping Magnum wakes up, sees her, and modestly pulls up his sheets to cover his hairy chest.; 4/21/20, 9:18 PM
narciso said...: The longest war had an interesting time horizon they started the timeline in 1979, its a little akin to starting the vietnam timeline around 1943 when archimedes patti first contacted ho chi minh.; 4/21/20, 9:19 PM
Mark said...: I remember that late scene in The Rapture, where Mimi Rogers is standing in the dark empty nothingness by her own choice.; 4/21/20, 9:21 PM
rcocean said...: "Anti-malarial drug Trump touted is linked to higher rates of death in VA coronavirus patients, study says"

What Fucking liars. Trump did not "Tout the Z-pack", he said it possibly could be a "game changer" and if someone was dying of CV there was no reason not to try it, until we know scientifically if its good or not. Further, based on the study - which is small and has not been peer reviewed - the NIH not recommending the Z-pack - but not forbidding it either. (Again, it hard to go on the internet and find out EXACTLY what that study says, because the press is just giving of bits and pieces).

The WaPo spins this as "Trump's Drug kills people" - incredible. The MSM is actually happy a CV-19 treatment doesn't work because they think it hurts Trump.; 4/21/20, 9:23 PM
Inga said...: “Inga
What is ermine frosting?”

It’s also called boiled milk frosting. Its an old recipe that’s been around for years. It’s really a homemade pudding base that gets cooled and then you whip up butter, then add the pudding mixture into the whipped butter by dollops and whip the bejesus out of it. So good. And not as sweet as frosting made from confectioners sugar.

Ermine Frosting; 4/21/20, 9:24 PM
walter said...: Gov. Evers is recruiting retired healthcare workers for service. Put down the cake pan and get back in the game, Inga.
But then, furloughs too..so...; 4/21/20, 9:24 PM
Mark said...: Wait a minute.

Wait just one got-dang minute . . .

Is that Luca Brasi????

(Mark goes off to check IMBb.)

It IS Luca Brasi on Magnum!

STAY AWAY FROM THE FISHES!!!; 4/21/20, 9:25 PM
320Busdriver said...: Didn’t senate select intelligence committee security staffer J Wolfe get a sweet deal (lying)after it was determined he leaked the Page FISA warrant to his gal pal A Watkins at Buzzfeed.

Gee whilakers, who would have taken him into the Scif. Not the same Senator who he asked to testify when he was looking at charges for leaking classified info, was it?; 4/21/20, 9:25 PM
Ken B said...: Inga
Sounds good, I like less sweet more creamy frosting.; 4/21/20, 9:27 PM
J. Farmer said...: @Mark:

Don't let it be said that the Washington Post never runs positive headlines/stories:

Ironic how much Dixie Chicks hate persisted despite the fact that disillusionment with the Iraq War is so pervasive now.; 4/21/20, 9:27 PM
Mark said...: That wasn't Luca Brasi acting when he kept rehearsing what he was going to say to the Don. He really in real life couldn't remember his lines and the flub when he had his scene with Brando was real too.; 4/21/20, 9:28 PM
Laslo Spatula said...: I believe one of the dividing points on how people view the shut-down is the hypocrisy seen by those who still work 'essential' jobs.

For the retirees and the staycationers, a world with little interaction is reinforced by others of that grouping.

However, for those still working, they see 'approved' interaction on a daily basis.

Yes, safeguards are followed wherever possible. But people are passed in halls, workers share bathrooms in the office and the factory, papers are handed back and forth, equipment is shared with the hopes that hand sanitizer will take care it.

These interactions seem little different than if one were to use the same metrics and precautions when, say, visiting a friend.

This discrepancy is in front of you every day, and it makes it harder to take the heavy-handedness seriously.

Just another aspect of the morlock / eloi divide to consider.

I am Laslo.; 4/21/20, 9:28 PM
J. Farmer said...: @narciso:

The longest war had an interesting time horizon they started the timeline in 1979, its a little akin to starting the vietnam timeline around 1943 when archimedes patti first contacted ho chi minh.

I haven't seen the documentary; is 1979 in reference to the Carter administration's efforts to induce a Soviet invasion of Afghanistan?; 4/21/20, 9:28 PM
Churchy LaFemme: said...: The Bee via Insty: Handy Topical Translation Guide; 4/21/20, 9:29 PM
Ken B said...: Gallo suggests the Sabin polio vaccine might help https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/04/21/oral-polio-vaccine-has-potential-treat-coronavirus-column/5162859002/; 4/21/20, 9:29 PM
rcocean said...: The bogus Senate intelligence committee led by Corrupto-crat Burr has issued a report on Trump-Russia. From what I can tell its completely worthless. Its amazing to think back that Comey was telling the senate intelligence committee that Trump was NOT under investigation. But Trump actually WAS under investigation. So you had the insane situation of:

01) Comey telling trump he wasn't under investigation
02) Comey telling the Senate intelligence committee Trump wasn't under investigation
03) Comey refusing to tell the public that.
04) The Senators refusing to the tell the public that.
05) Trump getting mad because Comey woldn't go public

and Comey actually investigation Trump!; 4/21/20, 9:29 PM
Mark said...: Don't much care for Sinead O'Connor either.; 4/21/20, 9:30 PM
Inga said...: “Gov. Evers is recruiting retired healthcare workers for service. Put down the cake pan and get back in the game, Inga.
But then, furloughs too..so...”

No thanks. I’ve done my stint in healthcare. I’ve got a lung condition that would make me a sitting duck working with Covid patients. I’ve sewn 300 masks that I’ve donated to two area nursing homes and Children’s hospital, so I’ve tried to help in my own small way.; 4/21/20, 9:31 PM
OldManRick said...: For Inga, a little mathematical lesson -

Normal is an average not an absolute. Some times it's more, sometimes it's less. To truly understand if this is abnormal, we need to know the sigma on all these numbers and how many sigma from normal that the current death rate is. Given that 68% is within one sigma and 95 % within two sigma, it could easily not be a "black swan" event.

In addition to the old trick of picking endpoints that make you argument look good as mentioned before, the NYT ignores the possibility that this is a double whammy of the "normal" flu season and Wuhan Flu. The NYT death toll doesn't differentiate the two distinct flus and doesn't even try to exclude compound effects.

I would expect more deaths, since the chances of surviving only one should be much better than the compounding effect of having two. Since each would weaken you for a period, the overlap would have a lower survival rate than just the odds of survival for each multiplied together.

There are three signs of either mathematical illiteracy or intentional misinformation.
First is just numbers, not per capita rates - We've seen a lot of that with the Wuhan Flu. (And you see it a lot reporting a business's gross profit not profit %)
Second is the providing absolute deviation from a normal without identifying the normal variation or sigma.
Third is modeling and comparisons that select arbitrary endpoints or single variables to make their points.

NYT indulges in all three very liberally and very often. This is my area of Gell-Mann amnesia, I studied statistics and modeling. But unlike Gell-Mann, I recognize the carry over of ignorance and agenda into the other reporting.; 4/21/20, 9:31 PM
narciso said...: They used that episodes template for an episode of airwolf some years later, also the world is not enough expanded the notion

Yes lenny montana (shirley) was luca brasi.; 4/21/20, 9:32 PM
Laslo Spatula said...: Kabuki was the word I was trying to find.

I am Laslo.; 4/21/20, 9:33 PM
Ken B said...: “ I’ve sewn 300 masks that I’ve donated to two area nursing homes and Children’s hospital”

Commendable, and more than most of us have done. Except Pants, volunteering for that study and all.; 4/21/20, 9:34 PM
Mark said...: He should have known when there was all that orange light and decor when he walked into the bar to meet that pimp Tataglia.; 4/21/20, 9:35 PM
J. Farmer said...: @Mark:

Don't much care for Sinead O'Connor either.

Ha. People are always surprised when I tell them that she ripped up John Paul's photo to protest sexual abuse in the Church.; 4/21/20, 9:37 PM
Laslo Spatula said...: "Ha. People are always surprised when I tell them that she ripped up John Paul's photo to protest sexual abuse in the Church."

However, the photo of George Ringo was left intact.

I am Laslo.; 4/21/20, 9:39 PM
Ken B said...: “ People are always surprised when I tell them that she ripped up John Paul's photo to protest sexual abuse in the Church.”

I remember watching that live. Quite a surprise!; 4/21/20, 9:39 PM
Lucien said...: Remember when the MSM-DNC decided to look into the racial impact of COVID19? Now we can see why: on MSNBC they put together a panel to explain that people protesting shutdown owners really just wanted “more black and brown people to die”. Yep. If you find something wrong with any of Gretchen Whitmer’s 42 executive orders it can only be because you’re a genocidal racist. If they hadn’t prepared the battlefield by spreading the idea of disparate impact, they couldn’t impute such motives to anyone.; 4/21/20, 9:40 PM
J. Farmer said...: The NYT death toll doesn't differentiate the two distinct flus and doesn't even try to exclude compound effects.

Pedantic point: these are not "two distinct flus"; 4/21/20, 9:40 PM
Anne-I-Am said...: I see the usual suspects are up to their usual hijinx.

No use rehashing the rehash of the rehashed hash.

The people invested in Panic! are now turning to hypotheticals (a second wave!) in order to keep the submissive compliant. The rest of us are looking elsewhere for our information.

As I finished up my run this evening, coming up the street, I saw what looked like half my neighbors out, walking. In the just-beginning-to-deepen shadows, the scene was surreal: dozens of people, all walking the same direction, no one together, all staring ahead. In my typical Midwestern-friendly way, I shouted out, "Goodness! It looks like the whole neighborhood is out. Hi everyone!"

People in California are not accustomed to jocularity. I think some of them flinched.; 4/21/20, 9:40 PM
wildswan said...: I'm reading old James Fallows articles from the Atlantic - as if locked up in a house by the plague I discovered a cache of old letters and pictures in a trunk up in the attic and sat up there on the floor in a dusty ray of sun reading of "old unhappy far-off things and battles long ago." Only, strangely enough, the older articles are very timely and relevant while the newer are outdated and formulaic. Older articles: Why Americans Hate the Media 1996; The Changing Economic Landscape 1985; Containing Japan 1989. These three describe an economic situation and a vile media much similar to what exists now (if you substitute "China" for "Japan.") But when Fallows tries in later articles to be timely and lively - discussing the limitations of search engines in the days before Google, for example or lice in the public schools; or doing ritualistic Trump bashing) - what he says has been overtaken by events. As a result the more recent articles do indeed seem "battles long ago" whereas the articles from the Eighties and Nineties on economic policy questions such as what to do about the "Asian" economic model are the living stuff of our times. I wonder why this is so.; 4/21/20, 9:42 PM
narciso said...: Well the story is more curious than that, taraki was the designated soviey pawn that angered a young afghan army captain, ismail khan over land reform (which means when you take your property) he mounted a protest which prompted the former to level the town, which led to his ouster the soviets got into their head that the next puppet was a cia agent, so they sent a spetznaz team to waste him. Hence staring the afghan invasion. Khan defected to the mujahadeen, after the fall of the taliban he became a minister in karzais cabinet; 4/21/20, 9:42 PM
J. Farmer said...: @Ken B:

I remember watching that live. Quite a surprise!

I didn't see it live but remember the reporting. I didn't see the episode the next year when Madonna imitated it by ripping up a photo of Joey Buttafuoco, repeating O'Connor's line, "fight the real enemy!"; 4/21/20, 9:43 PM
Laslo Spatula said...: "People in California are not accustomed to jocularity."

Depending where you were, they might not have understood English.

I am Laslo.; 4/21/20, 9:43 PM
Known Unknown said...: “ I’ve sewn 300 masks that I’ve donated to two area nursing homes and Children’s hospital”

Bravo!; 4/21/20, 9:43 PM
Known Unknown said...: O' Connor was ahead of the curve and paid a real price.; 4/21/20, 9:44 PM
narciso said...: Like eloi emerging from the bunkers in the time machine. They may be sensitive to sunlight at this time. Its like one time i had my eyes dilated and they forgot to give me those throw away shades and walked outside. Yikes; 4/21/20, 9:45 PM
Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...: is the NYC subway still open because it is a necessary evil,
despite being a disseminator for the virus?

is the economy in general a necessary evil?; 4/21/20, 9:45 PM
Laslo Spatula said...: "Jocularity" has always made me think it had something to do with the testicles.

Maybe high-school football and joc(k)-straps. To protect the Ularities.

I am Laslo.; 4/21/20, 9:45 PM
Ken B said...: Farmer
I don’t remember the Madonna thing. I think I gave up the show around that time.; 4/21/20, 9:46 PM
Known Unknown said...: "Pedantic point: these are not "two distinct flus"

I think the point is some 'presumed deaths' could actually be caused by influenza strains. One-third of my wife's lab has been tested. They all came back negative despite having very Covid-19 symptoms.

The New York medical PTBs are completely fucking the data for anyone to eventually put together a clear impact of the pandemic here.; 4/21/20, 9:47 PM
narciso said...: Fallows had one job, to keep an eye in the japanese economy, hes about as on the ball as larry johnson who two months begore 9/11 said terrorism wasnt a problem, he still got contracts after that.; 4/21/20, 9:47 PM
Inga said...: “Gallo suggests the Sabin polio vaccine might help https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/04/21/oral-polio-vaccine-has-potential-treat-coronavirus-column/5162859002/“

Very interesting!; 4/21/20, 9:48 PM
Mark said...: "Do I look like I know what a JPEG is? I just want a picture of a got dang hot dog."

https://youtu.be/EvKTOHVGNbg

"Where's the children's gun section?"; 4/21/20, 9:49 PM
Churchy LaFemme: said...: Has Fallows written on China? He certainly missed the boat on Japan, and then I mostly lost track of him.; 4/21/20, 9:49 PM
walter said...: Scott Walker
@ScottWalker
·
10h
As of 10:00am, data on http://wha.org shows total # of COVID-19 patients is down 83 over past 7 days & inpatients with COVID-19 test pending is down 36.

We’re trending in the right direction, so why is WI closed until Memorial Day weekend?!? This is not logical.; 4/21/20, 9:50 PM
Jersey Fled said...: Ken B

Thanks for the correction. Forbes still has the original article up.; 4/21/20, 9:51 PM
steve uhr said...: When the history of these times is written, WHO will not come across well. In January, all they seemed to care about is not offending China. They did not declare the virus to be a Public Health Emergency of International Concern until January 30. By that time, the virus had been detected in about 20 countries.

By treaty, WHO was obligated to declare a PHEIC as soon as it was determined that the virus was an "extraordinary event which is determined to constitute a public health risk to other States through the international spread of disease and to potentially require a coordinated international response." That was true by mid-January at the latest, when human-to-human transmission was confirmed. A lot of countries including the U.S. waited for WHO to make the declaration before gearing up for war.

THis is what WHO said when they finally declared the emergency:

"Let me be clear. This declaration is not a vote of no confidence in China. On the contrary, WHO continues to have the confidence in China’s capacity to control the outbreak.
I’ll repeat this. Let me be clear. This declaration is not a vote of no confidence in China. On the contrary. WHO continues to have confidence in China’s capacity to control the outbreak."

I heard you the first time. God forbid that China take offense and feel that WHO doesn't think they are doing a good enough job. The health of the rest of the world be damned.; 4/21/20, 9:51 PM
Anne-I-Am said...: my neighbors are mostly woke virtue signalling white people. all with the stoopid sign about science and black lives and blah blah. except no sign in the yard of my immediate neighbors to the east--a black family. i wonder what they think of the asinine signs.

coinkidentally--the patriarch of the house went to Shortridge HS in Indy, my home town. where Kurt Vonnegut attended.; 4/21/20, 9:53 PM
Ken B said...: Inga
That Gallo thing surprised me. I remember my grandfather telling me about Salk and Sabin when I was a child, when it was fairly new. It probably won’t work but if it does what a game changer that would be.; 4/21/20, 9:53 PM
walter said...: Move the goalposts then kick for 30% unemployment.
Winning!; 4/21/20, 9:54 PM
Ken B said...: Jersey Fled
Thanks for the acknowledgment.; 4/21/20, 9:55 PM
Laslo Spatula said...: Movies with very Seventies' endings that have popped in my mind recently:
Vanishing Point.
Electra Glide in Blue.
Dirty Larry, Crazy Mary.
Two-Lane Blacktop.

All involved vehicles.

I guess movies with very 80s' endings would be anything with Tom Cruise, pretty much.

I am Laslo.; 4/21/20, 9:57 PM
J. Farmer said...: @narciso:

Well the story is more curious than that,

I actually don't think there is much to the theory that they were attempting to induce an invasion. I think that's mostly puffing on Brzezinski's part.; 4/21/20, 9:58 PM
narciso said...: I recommended kara sevda (i think there are some versions with english subtitles) because its better than most dramas, on enlish or latin tv. For contrast they brought back the second iteration of the queen of the south, which i observed because it was based on perez rivertes 10 years of reporting, and it was set not only in mexico but spain and morocco.; 4/21/20, 9:59 PM
J. Farmer said...: I guess movies with very 80s' endings would be anything with Tom Cruise, pretty much.
'
I always thought he Rambo trilogy were a perfect set of Reaganite films. The first two were about vanquishing Vietnam Syndrome, and the third was about helping the mujahideen against the Soviets.; 4/21/20, 10:00 PM
Laslo Spatula said...: "I always thought he Rambo trilogy were a perfect set of Reaganite films."

I happily add that to my inchoate ramble.

I am Laslo.; 4/21/20, 10:01 PM
narciso said...: I bring ismail khan because its like the butterfly effect, one event triggers which triggers another.; 4/21/20, 10:01 PM
William said...: I've always admired and respected Sinead O'Connor's talents as a singer, but, paradoxically, when she was young and pretty, I disliked and distrusted her. Her protests seemed too showy and never directed against any on the left. I'm not sure, but I think her tearing up of the Pope's picture was done more to protest that he didn't want to ordain women. The protest predated knowledge of the Magdalene Laundries and the Christian Brother barbarities....Nowadays, she has too many tats and all her resentments are visible in the lines on her face. You can see the crazy. When she was young and beautiful. you could sense the crazy, but mostly you saw the beauty. It's very easy to mistake crazy for a charming idiosyncrasy in a beautiful woman. Anyway, I liked her singing but was wary of her personality. I thought she might be a phony, but it's not a pose....She has a lot of demons, and it looks like they might be winning. One thing's for sure: she's not a phony. I hope she finds some peace and stability.; 4/21/20, 10:02 PM
Sebastian said...: Via Instapundit, from Althouse’s favorite newspaper to save sane commentators here time and effort.; 4/21/20, 10:03 PM
narciso said...: I think spies like me, covered the subject better, the two glg 20s stumble into the lair of their supposed afghan allies.; 4/21/20, 10:03 PM
Laslo Spatula said...: The 90s needed more movies where Gwyneth Paltrow's head ended up in a box.

I am Laslo.; 4/21/20, 10:03 PM
Mark said...: There was a TV movie I saw, probably on the ABC Movie of the Week, or maybe a late nighter, about the guy who was locked away in the attic. I distinctly remember this 70s-style scene shot from above showing this couple driving up to a house and getting out of the car.; 4/21/20, 10:05 PM
Laslo Spatula said...: The Human Centipede would make for an amazing musical.

Imagine the chorus line.

I am Laslo.; 4/21/20, 10:08 PM
Anne-I-Am said...: laslo, that was a gripping movie.

now we need GP's box in a closet.; 4/21/20, 10:11 PM
narciso said...: Of course rambo came from the imagination of david morrell, a english professor in iowa, the original story was more savage then the film as rambo wages unrestricted guerilla warfare on the town, subsequently he did a string of independent thrillers, mamy of them spy or suspense type since then he started a new series with thomas de quincey of all people as a sleuth in mid 19th century england.; 4/21/20, 10:11 PM
J. Farmer said...: The 90s needed more movies where Gwyneth Paltrow's head ended up in a box.

Sometimes I think I'm the only person that hated the ending of that movie. And not because of the brutality. Pitt's acting was so fucking bad during that scene, it makes me cringe.; 4/21/20, 10:12 PM
narciso said...: Remember how they marveled at soaceys acting, he was just being mostly himself.; 4/21/20, 10:13 PM
Mark said...: Well, Sinead O'Connor is Muslim now.; 4/21/20, 10:14 PM
narciso said...: the first one in that new series; 4/21/20, 10:15 PM
J. Farmer said...: @narciso:

Of course rambo came from the imagination of david morrell, a english professor in iowa, the original story was more savage then the film as rambo wages unrestricted guerilla warfare on the town

Yeah, they definitely wanted to make Rambo a more sympathetic character. And every good screenwriter knows you don't kill your hero in the end since you may need him for a sequel.

The character's popularity did result in that bizarre sequel title, Rambo: First Blood Part II. Seems giving a subtitle to a film name has pretty much been abandoned. The last one I can recall was a godawful action movie with Antonio Banderas and Lucy Liu called Ballistic: Ecks vs. Sever, which was not only awkward but inaccurate.; 4/21/20, 10:20 PM
Robert Cook said...: "In an exclusive clip from the Showtime documentary 'The Longest War,' premiering April 19, CIA agents explain how Bill Clinton blocked the U.S. from killing Osama bin Laden."

1. Maybe it's true, but...since when should the claims or points of view of CIA agents be trusted or believed without proof, (or even with proof, given that they can fabricate it)? Part of their mission is to lie, mislead, and sow discord (or to induce/compel compliance). This applies to us no less than to anyone else.

2. What were the circumstances? Do we take it now as a given that the USA has the right to assassinate anyone, anytime, anywhere in the world, (as opposed to apprehending them)?; 4/21/20, 10:20 PM
J. Farmer said...: Well, Sinead O'Connor is Muslim now.

More like she's always been a mental case.; 4/21/20, 10:22 PM
Anne-I-Am said...: J Farmer,

Now I will have to watch the end again in order to assess BP's efforts.; 4/21/20, 10:26 PM
narciso said...: Yes that was a silly film even sillier when dubbed in spanish,; 4/21/20, 10:30 PM
Robert Cook said...: “Certainly can't speak for everyone, but I thought Clinton's failures to get bin Laden was common knowledge.”

Yes, his failures to get bin Laden are well known. But claim here is that Clinton blocked the U.S. from killing bin Laden. It may be true, but where, as I asked, were the circumstances? Would it have endangered the lives of others? Was there too little chance of success relative to the downsides of not succeeding? (My question: Should the U.S. actually assassinate people without legal cause?)

It's also well known that the departing Clinton team tried to warn the Bush administration of the gravity of the danger bin Laden posed to the U.S., to the Bush team's reported indifference and skepticism.; 4/21/20, 10:32 PM
Jon Ericson said...: "Equality"; 4/21/20, 10:35 PM
Narr said...: Never seen Rambo. O'Connor struck me as a troubled and not very talented clown, and I can't recall a single song of hers--just attitude.

The most memorable thing about the Afghan adventure to me is what Cockburn said after the Soviet's 1979 blunder--"If ever a country deserved rape, it was Afghanistan." Like a patriarchal prog, obviously and naively hoping the rape would have a positive effect.

Narr
How fare the Kurds nowadays?; 4/21/20, 10:36 PM
Mark said...: OK, so . . .?

Looney Tunes, Merrie Melodies, Bugs Bunny, et al.
Popeye
Rocky and Bullwinkle, et al.
Woody Woodpecker
Tom and Jerry
Yogi Bear
Secret Squirrel
Josie and the Pussycats
Pink Panther, et al.
Wacky Races, et al.
Underdog, et al.
The Flintstones
The Jetsons
Scooby Doo
Speed Racer
Star Trek: The Animated Series
Hey, Hey, Hey . . . It's Faaaat Albert
Those cheaply animated Marvel cartoons with the really cool theme songs
The Simpsons
Itchy & Scratchy
Futurama
South Park
Ren and Stimpy
Beavis and Butthead
King of the Hill
Family Guy
American Dad
Bob's Burgers

???; 4/21/20, 10:37 PM
Birkel said...: And here I thought First Blood was about how small town Americans were prejudiced ass holes, even in Oregon.; 4/21/20, 10:39 PM
narciso said...: Cockburn was a dyspeptic sot who wasone the inspiration for the peter fallow character in bonfire, his father was a stalinist back in the 30s, other relatives like leslie were on the christic train back in the 80s, she ran for congress last time and proved too crazy for virginia. Her daughter is olivia wilde.; 4/21/20, 10:39 PM
ga6 said...: Mimi Rogers is currently oing battle and/or helping Bosch on TV.

70's movie Point Blank w/ Lee Marvin
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0062138/; 4/21/20, 10:44 PM
narciso said...: What no animaniacs (soon to be on hulu) yes kids are deprived of looney tunes, pink pather was on one of inspitstional channels on my antenna set up, i could have sworm jackie mason was the aardvark; 4/21/20, 10:44 PM
William said...: There's something desolate and forlorn about Sinead in her present condition. "Bare ruined choirs where late the sweet birds sang."...She's got the definitive interpretation of most Irish folk ballads. "This Is To Mother You" is a song she wrote herself. She offers fine advice to herself, but it's easier to offer such advice than to follow it. My favorite Sinead song is "On Raglan Road", She really has a grand talent....I don't know if her story inspires pity and terror or pathos, but it's a sad story, nonetheless.; 4/21/20, 10:45 PM
Jon Ericson said...: Nice Tie.; 4/21/20, 10:47 PM
Mark said...: Pink Panther breakfast cereal.

https://cereal-graveyard.wikia.org/wiki/Pink_Panther_Flakes; 4/21/20, 10:49 PM
Mark said...: No anime, no animaniacs, no D***ey.; 4/21/20, 10:50 PM
J. Farmer said...: @narciso:

Cockburn was a dyspeptic sot who wasone the inspiration for the peter fallow character in bonfire, his father was a stalinist back in the 30s, other relatives like leslie were on the christic train back in the 80s, she ran for congress last time and proved too crazy for virginia. Her daughter is olivia wilde.

Alexander Cockburn was pretty fun to read, much more than either of his brothers. I had never heard the claim that he partly inspired Wolfe's character. I know there were rumors it was inspired by Christopher Hitchens, but I thought Wolfe based him Anthony Haden-Guest.; 4/21/20, 10:51 PM
narciso said...: music maestro; 4/21/20, 10:52 PM
Mark said...: Talk, talk, talk, yammer, yammer, yammer. Will he never shut up??

https://youtu.be/z93qRyEY_wQ; 4/21/20, 10:58 PM
Mark said...: Funniest scene in all of cartoondom --

Wile E. Coyote, Super Genius, making explosive carrots in his shack.; 4/21/20, 11:01 PM
chuck said...: It's also well known that the departing Clinton team tried to warn the Bush administration of the gravity of the danger bin Laden posed to the U.S.

Is that why Clinton did nothing about bin Laden? Sounds sorta treasonous.; 4/21/20, 11:06 PM
Churchy LaFemme: said...: OK, so . . .?

Looney Tunes, Merrie Melodies, Bugs Bunny, et al.: The gold standard for classic animation. Tex Avery, Bob Clampett, Friz Freling & Chuck Jones did work that has never been surpassed.

Popeye: If the short is b&w and Popeye is dressed in his original costume also likely a classic. If it's color and he's dressed in Navy whites, less so. Brilliant work from the Fleischers, including 3D models. I said B&W, but the three color two-reelers are also brilliant (Aladdin less so, admittedly). The post sync dialogue with Jack Mercer's improvised mutterings is a hoot. However, and not to take anything away from the Fleischers, the original comic strips by Segar are even more brilliant. The epic "Plunder Island" continuity may be the best adventure strip ever written.

Rocky and Bullwinkle, et al.: Great story and voice work paired with really awful animation! Yet "that trick" somehow works.

Woody Woodpecker: Hit or miss shorts. Often Woody just needs a good slap. Hey, all the walrus wanted to do was have a nice picnic. There are some classic shorts, but there's a lot of dross.

Tom and Jerry: Hanna & Barbarea training grounds. MGM gave them a budget, and the shorts looked it. I love the frequently sumptuous interiors of their house. The animation is flawless and the writing is usually sharp. Avoid the post H&B shorts directed by Chuck Jones. He's a great directory, but never "got" the cat & mouse.

Yogi Bear: Very limited animation, but good voice work and often funny scripts. Very little worthwhile has been done with Yogi since his original show.

Secret Squirrel: Run of the mill H&B mid-term fare. OK if you're 9, but nothing for adults.

Josie and the Pussycats: Kind of a template for Scooby Doo. I liked them better in outer-space myself. The live action movie screwed over creator Dan Decarlo.

Pink Panther, et al.: Classic pantomine from Friz Freling's depatie period. Individually many are very good, but if you watch a whole DVD at once, they run together and the (great!) Mancini theme wears thin.

Wacky Races, et al.: Good fun, but why did only Dick Dasterdly get called out for cheating. Arguably all the others cheated at times as well. Mutley was the breakout character and went on to other things (as did Dasterdly and Penelope Pittstop).

Underdog, et al.: New York animation with New York voice casting. Underdog's Wally Cox was usually outshone by the chiev villan Simon Bar Sinister, who had a great voice and the greatest name ever.

The Flintstones: More limited animation using great voice acting and radio scriptwriters to get the stories across. However, it was never one of my favorites. As a kid I didn't really want domestic dramedy. (And yes, it did rip off Gleason).

The Jetsons: The Flinstones in the future. Well, ok the Jetsons were solidly white collar while the Flinstones were blue, but you can see the idea. Some great episodes (Roboblab!) and a good bit of dross. Avoid the 80s reboot (and the movie!).

Scooby Doo: Somehow a ripoff of the now obscure Dobie Gills concept became a cultural phenom. Some good stuff, but usually way too padded. And then there's Scrappy..; 4/21/20, 11:11 PM
Churchy LaFemme: said...: Star Trek: The Animated Series: Plus -- the original cast, some original writers. The minus -- some of Filmation's worst animation, which is saying something. I don't know why the scripts and voice tracks haven't been put to some new CGI by now.

Hey, Hey, Hey . . . It's Faaaat Albert: Meh. Maybe I was aging out of the demo, but I never cared for this, despite liking a lot of Cosby's comedy routines.

Those cheaply animated Marvel cartoons with the really cool theme songs: You have just said about all there is to say about those.

The Simpsons: Somehow I never watched this.

Itchy & Scratchy: Ditto ipso facto.

Futurama Great, very funny stuff with a heart. Best description I've heard: Good deeds go unpunished.

South Park: Brilliant but sometimes hard to watch.

Ren and Stimpy: Never saw this. What's his name's style hurts my eyes.

Beavis and Butthead: Heh heh, you said butt..

King of the Hill: Nice to have that POV represented, but generally underwhelming for me.

Family Guy: Never seen

American Dad: Never Seen.

Bob's Burgers: Never seen.

???; 4/21/20, 11:12 PM
Lurker21 said...: The Atlantic was a more thoughtful magazine when Mort Zuckerman was publisher and later when Michael Kelly was editor. Those were the days of neoliberal revisionism, when liberals felt insecure about their ideology and thought they needed to justify their beliefs. Today, people don't feel that insecurity about ideologies and don't feel they need to justify their beliefs and desires. Searching self-criticism isn't the fashion nowadays.

The focus is also more on trivia than it was. The Eighties had better vision and understanding in some ways. People saw that foreign competition was hurting us, that the deficit was too large, that crime and dependency were problems, and that the country would likely grow more "diverse" and more divided. Liberals, and everybody else, have more or less learned to live with those problems, and journalists spend their time trading insults, analyzing tweets and youtube videos, and deciphering rap lyrics.; 4/21/20, 11:17 PM
narciso said...: yes the animation was cheap back then,; 4/21/20, 11:19 PM
William said...: Black Horseman: The animated version of O'Neil. Hits some very dark places, and the jokes are funny.; 4/21/20, 11:21 PM
J. Farmer said...: Is that why Clinton did nothing about bin Laden? Sounds sorta treasonous.

It's not fair to say that Clinton "did nothing." He just didn't do enough. He just didn't do enough. And the USS Cole bombing occurred in October 2000, near the very end Clinton's term. Within the Bush administration's first year, they obviously had a predetermined priority list of foreign policy issues to address, and responding to the Cole attack got moved down the list.; 4/21/20, 11:22 PM
J. Farmer said...: @Mark:

Too lazy to go through the thread so I have no idea what your list of cartoons is about, but nonetheless I will make one addition:

Duckman; 4/21/20, 11:27 PM
Churchy LaFemme: said...: yes the animation was cheap back then,

Nope. You've linked to Spider-Man, the Cadilliac of Marvel animation.

Pretty sure Mark is talking about stuff like The Mighty Thor, which is basically shots of comic pages with occasional mouth movement.; 4/21/20, 11:29 PM
stephen cooper said...: Felix the Cat : the Professor (the guy who seems to own the Observatory) reminds me so so much of someone but I will not say who I do not want to spoil your surprise when you see it again after all these years; 4/21/20, 11:29 PM
Churchy LaFemme: said...: The original Felix The Cat was a silent b&w cartoon. He was somewhat famous for being the first cartoon character with actual, well, character. He frequently paced, visibly thinking things through and then would then solve his problems with a clever use of props.

The revival with the Bag Of Tricks & Poindexter was in the 50s I think, and nearly unwatchable. The Master Cylinder is a great villan name though.; 4/21/20, 11:32 PM
narciso said...: I either never saw those or blacked it out, i remember the captain america hulk but not those; 4/21/20, 11:34 PM
stephen cooper said...: 1959, Who is Poindexter? (I know but I don't care) Rewatch the first few minutes of the first episode, where Felix goes for a picnic on the Professor's Private property on the acreage around his observatory it is like a Shakespearean sonnet

Magilla Gorilla was the best riff on film noir , it was probably better than almost all the film noir films except the ones with Ernest Borgnine or Joseph Cotten or Simone Signoret or Donna Reed or Robert Mitchum or Barbara Stanwyck and yes Ernest Borgnine should have sued for misappropriation but he didn't because that is not the sort of thing Ernest Borgnine would do

Nobody did Krazy Kat right except for the original creator who did not do filmed cartoons; 4/21/20, 11:38 PM
Rory said...: Beany and Cecil is still great.
George of the Jungle
Roger Ramjet

Cheap god/superhero: the Mighty Hercules

Linus the Lionhearted, with Sheldon Leonard as the title voice, was funny, but it was basically a commercial for Post cereals and was killed by the FTC.

Hanna-Barbera: Top Cat was in the Flintstones/Jetsons family. I think that the best Hanna-Barbera cartoon was Yogi Bear with Snagglepuss and Yacky Doodle, but they had a lot of funny characters in that era.; 4/21/20, 11:48 PM
narciso said...: I saw some of those early ones there was a time heist, but it was very lame indeed.; 4/21/20, 11:49 PM
Rory said...: And Pinky and The Brain among newer stuff.; 4/21/20, 11:51 PM
Mark said...: Some boys never grow up. Watching cartoons their whole lives.; 4/21/20, 11:52 PM
Churchy LaFemme: said...: I wanted to like Beany & Cecil but in the event was underwhelmed. (I'm talking the cartoons, not the puppet show, which I have not seen). The writing seemed very disjointed to me, and disturbing in a couple of cases. Still: No-Bikini Atol!.

George Of The Jungle was more classic Jay Ward goodness. Better animation than Bullwinkle, plus you also got Tom Slick (He doesn't know the meaning of the word fail!) and Superchicken ("You knew the job was dangerous when you took it, Fred!"); 4/21/20, 11:56 PM
Mark said...: "Bite my shiny metal ass."; 4/21/20, 11:56 PM
Mark said...: The show with probably the best and most biting political commentary, exceeding any live-action show, is definitely South Park.; 4/22/20, 12:01 AM
Mark said...: And that they can turn out an episode in less than a week is astounding.

I remember the Elián González episode less than a week after the stormtrooper raid.; 4/22/20, 12:04 AM
Andy said...: Jonny Quest - Best theme song for a cartoon; 4/22/20, 12:05 AM
narciso said...: quelle surprise; 4/22/20, 12:06 AM
Churchy LaFemme: said...: There were at least two Lion themed cartoons. There was Linus The Lionhearted who also had Lovable Truly the mailman, Sugar Bear & Granny Goodwitch.

Then was King Leonardo & His Short Subjects with the King of Bongo Kongo and his skunk valet Odie Cologne paired off against Itchy Brother & Bigsy Rat in the main storyline with The Hunter (an inept bloodhound detective) & Tooter Turtle ("Help, Mr. Wizard!").; 4/22/20, 12:08 AM
Churchy LaFemme: said...: Jonny Quest Invisible Monster was the scariest toon ever made. Gave me nightmares for weeks.; 4/22/20, 12:09 AM