April 28, 2020

At the Arboretum Café...

P1190051

... you can talk all night.

P1190052

395 comments:

1 – 200 of 395   Newer›   Newest»
Bob Boyd said...

Does Hillary's endorsement hurt or help Joe?
It brings to mind the way the women in Bill's life were treated and all the hypocrisy.
Hillary has to know that.

Achilles said...

“Flattening the Curve” out.

“mumble...gig..erp...safe..eep!” In.

BudBrown said...

yeah, but

rehajm said...

Trump keeping the meat train open. Cows taste good. Pigs taste good...

JZ said...

8:30 pm here in SE Mich and it’s still light out. That’s a good thing.

Lucien said...

But what’s really national news is that VP Pence didn’t wear a mask — blasphemy against St. Fauci.

rcocean said...

Spring's busting out all over - but keep your distance.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

A lot of skepticism has been expressed here regarding the efforts to get an accurate measure of the number of people who died due to coronavirus. This skepticism is not really justified. The PCR assay used for detection of the virus is perfectly adequate for the task. It is very sensitive, which carries the risk of false positive, but the assays always include multiple negative controls to confirm that there are no false positives. This is the gold standard for determining whether or not someone was carrying the virus. For a variety of reasons very little testing using these assays was done during the early phase of the pandemic. As a consequence, the cause of a lot of deaths were probably not accurately recorded, particularly because these people tended to be old and/or poor.
As a consequence, the number of deaths reported so far being due to the virus is necessarily going to be a lower limit. The actual number is necessarily going to be higher than our current estimate. That the numbers will be revised upwards is the expected outcome, not a conspiracy. There is nothing magical about the first estimate, subsequent estimates will get more accurate, not less accurate.

J. Farmer said...

Trump keeping the meat train open. Cows taste good. Pigs taste good...

Hey, a sewer rat may taste like pumpkin pie, but I'll never know 'cause I wouldn't eat the filthy motherfuckers.

Anne-I-Am said...

J F,

Sewer rats taste like chicken, or so I would guess. But bats! Now those beady-eyed little assholes taste like pumpkin pie.

rcocean said...

Trump is keeping the US going by making sure we all have enough Meat. Thanks Mr. President.

J. Farmer said...

@ARM:

For what it's worth, the CDC data includes laboratory confirmed versus probable Covid-19 death. But the exact number is not especially relevant at this point. Suppression is increasingly looking like a non-viable for reducing R0 number. Absent a vaccine or effective pharmaceutical treatment, we are basically left with letting the virus run its course through the population with some mitigation efforts to slow the spread.

J. Farmer said...

@Anne:

Sewer rats taste like chicken, or so I would guess. But bats! Now those beady-eyed little assholes taste like pumpkin pie.

Yeah, the eating bats myth has really caught on. Even though the virus is believed to have originated in bats, it was never conjectured that it jumped to humans by consuming bats. The hypothesis is that it was transmitted from bats to an intermediate animal and then to humans. Pangolins were raised as the possible intermediary.

Birkel said...

At least this will post immediately.

Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...

"It's not your lungs this time,
but your heart holds your fate"
--Bruce S. ("For You")

"Freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor;
it must be demanded by the oppressed."

"Oppressed people cannot remain oppressed forever.
The yearning for freedom eventually manifests itself."
--MLK

Drago said...

Denmark now reporting their mortality rate at .08%.

Which is quite consistent with other nations.

Netherlands reports .8%.'

Scotland reporting .04%.

Chelsea MA .03%.

Los Angeles .1%

What this means is that my posting those reports from those locations means I am a racist murderer.

Ken B can explain how that works.

Birkel said...

The hypothesis is that the Chinese, with some US government money (Thanks, Obama!) to the lab allowed them to splice certain parts of the HIV RNA into the naturally found bat virus, using CRISPR technology.

J. Farmer said...

Who would've thought filling meat processing plants with cheap immigrant laborers who often live in squalid, overcrowded spaces would be a bad idea? Cheap meat comes with a price, folks.

Anne-I-Am said...

J F,

Don't ruin humor with pedantry. @@

And probably the virus came directly from bats, but not via consumption as food. I think it is very likely the virus came straight from the lab, albeit not intentionally released.

Inga said...

“Trump keeping the meat train open. Cows taste good. Pigs taste good...”

30 plants across the country with over 3300 cases of Covid. That will make the garlic pork roast and Porterhouse steak taste all the better, eh? But seriously, I did just stock up on beef, pork and chicken and now my little extra freezer is filled to the brim between all the stuff I thought I needed. I hope it doesn’t end up getting freezer burn before I use it all up.

I bought some off the bone ham which is my favorite, then I thought, oh man I don’t want to eat it cold thinking about all that Covid in the meat processing facilities. So I guess I’ll be nuking or frying or using the ham in cooked dishes. Maybe Covid couldn’t survive that long on a slice of ham, but the thought of it really grosses me out.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

. Farmer said...
Suppression is increasingly looking like a non-viable


Not clear why you say this. New Zealand appears to eliminated the virus and are going back to work. Much the same for Australia. Australia has a huge first generation immigrant Chinese population and China is its largest trading partner. Also, despite its image, it is a highly urbanized population. They have had a remarkable success in suppressing the virus.

Big Mike said...

I saw an Internet report that Sleepy Joe Biden lived down to his nickname by briefly falling asleep during a joint town hall with Hillary Clinton. Can anyone confirm that this really happened?

Gahrie said...

How long until the democrats use Tara Reade as an excuse to replace creepy Joe?

J. Farmer said...

@Anne:

Don't ruin humor with pedantry. @@

And probably the virus came directly from bats, but not via consumption as food. I think it is very likely the virus came straight from the lab, albeit not intentionally released.


Pedantry?! Who, me? :)

As best I can tell (not that I've followed it that closely), the notion that the virus came from the lab seems based purely on proximity. Granted, that is highly suggestive. I'm not qualified to weight the evidence but given the intense study of the virus' structure, there seems to be a pretty broad consensus that intentional engineering is not the case. If the virus did indeed originate in the lab, then you are likely right that it got out because of negligence rather than intentionally released.

Gahrie said...

Who would've thought filling meat processing plants with cheap immigrant laborers who often live in squalid, overcrowded spaces would be a bad idea?

*shrugs* It worked with the animals.

Inga said...

“As of April 28, 2,274 people have died from the coronavirus in Sweden, making its per-capita death rate nearly six times higher than that of Norway and Finland.”

https://www.businessinsider.com/photos-norway-sweden-different-coronavirus-responses-fatality-rates-2020-4#whereas-norway-and-finland-instituted-lockdowns-in-mid-march-and-have-seen-their-number-of-coronavirus-deaths-per-capita-plateau-sweden-has-seen-its-death-rate-climb-2

Gahrie said...

then you are likely right that it got out because of negligence rather than intentionally released.

The janitors were selling animals in the market instead of incinerating them.

WK said...

You should only eat Pangolin in months that have an “r” in them. The problem is the Chinese do not have an “r” in any of their months. Hence the issue.

Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...

please can we not hear "They got wiped"

...now that Covington Law has to re search all of Flynn's records

Please. Just this one time.

Yancey Ward said...

"It is very sensitive, which carries the risk of false positive, but the assays always include multiple negative controls to confirm that there are no false positives."

Depends on the definition of "sensitive". There are roughly 15% false negatives. I don't think "very sensitive" is the right descriptor. Sensitive enough for the purpose is about right.

J. Farmer said...

@ARM:

New Zealand appears to eliminated the virus and are going back to work.

New Zealand is an island whose borders are nowhere near as porous as ours. Before any deaths in New Zealand they had shut their border, closed schools and businesses, and they aggressively implemented the test/trace strategy. It's the latter that I think will prove most difficult for US.

Original Mike said...

"The hypothesis is that it was transmitted from bats to an intermediate animal and then to humans. Pangolins were raised as the possible intermediary."

Why is an intermediary required?

Iman said...

I thought it looked like he was sleeping, but the silly smirk on his puss gave an indication he had a few of his remaining viable brain cells sparking.

Anne-I-Am said...

JF,

Yes, lab accidents are unfortunately frequent. Especially when animals are used that bite, claw, and run. And people jab themselves with sharps by accident (some poor guy gave himself smallpox that way). Even getting sprayed with urine, blood, saliva or feces could cause infection, if it gets into mucous membranes or an open sore.

There is speculation that lab animals who were sacrificed were sometimes sold in the wet markets. While horseshoe bats may have been a reach (evidently it is the fruit bats that are tasty), monkeys are probably a possibility. We know the Chinese like monkey brains (much to George H W Bush's chagrin).

At any rate, the damage came not from an accidental transmission of virus from animal to human, but in the lies and cover-up that followed. I find it all too plausible that the Chinese allowed the virus to spread as a means of indirect warfare against the US.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
J. Farmer said...

You should only eat Pangolin in months that have an “r” in them. The problem is the Chinese do not have an “r” in any of their months. Hence the issue.

Ha. I don't think consumption is the proposed route it got from animal to human.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

The other area of skepticism has centered on the absence, or presence, of excess deaths. The study described here would seem to be reasonably definitive on this issue - yes there has been an excess of deaths, as has been described in multiple other countries.

rehajm said...

Hey, a sewer rat may taste like pumpkin pie, but I'll never know 'cause I wouldn't eat the filthy motherfuckers.

Glad someone is paying attention...

Original Mike said...

"New Zealand is an island whose borders are nowhere near as porous as ours."

As we discovered when we tried to get OUT.

There is nothing about New Zealand's experience that pertains to the US.

Drago said...

In another hammer blow to ARM's Beijing Boy Act at Althouse, the Australians have reported ARM's Beloved and Heroic Peoples Republic Of China ChiComs are formally threatening the Australians to make the Aussies stop from asking questions about the origins of the ChiCom Wuhan Lab Bat Flu.

This is right on top of the collapse of ARM's latest ChiCom driven lie the Trump owed millions to ChiCom banks. Politico fully retracted their lie-filled "story" today.

Which was right about the time ARM vomited up the already debunked lie that Trump had allowed thousands of non-US citizens/non-Green Card Holders back into the US.

It has not been a good week for the dem alarmist liars.

Yancey Ward said...

"Cheap meat comes with a price, folks."

Tell me about it. I have offerred it for free since I was about 13 years old, but have had to spend money trying to give it away.

Drago said...

It is comforting to see the govts of the western world waking up to the strategic dangers of China even as the ChiCom owned western media and blog posters like ARM continue their Beijing lackey acts.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Original Mike said...
There is nothing about New Zealand's experience that pertains to the US.


Australia is comparable. Very large number of immigrants, very active trader, high level of tourism, all of it intimately linked to China.

Ken B said...

This should worry anyone who understands the line of succession. https://twitter.com/ddiamond/status/1255193968809250823

rcocean said...

All the talk of meat, reminds me of the weirdest Simpsons episode where Lisa decides she's a vegetarian and all meat eaters are gross. Near the end, she screams abuse at everyone and destroys a roast pig that Homer has been cooking all day. At the end, she and Homer agree to live and let live.

What's odd is the Show's writers think Lisa's demented, egomaniac behavior is somehow OK. SHE decides that the rest of society is wrong. Lisa Decides that her feelings are the correct way to eat and everyone else is wrong. She decides that since meat eating offends HER, she has the right to scream abuse at everyone and destroy their dinner. She is in fact a Vegetarian Nazi. Homer instead of talking to her, should have locked her in room without supper - not even a carrot.

J. Farmer said...

Tell me about it. I have offerred it for free since I was about 13 years old, but have had to spend money trying to give it away.

They don't call trying to give away free meat the world's oldest profession for nothing.

By the way, anyone remember back in the day when a sketchy guy was trying to sell meat out of the back of a pickup truck? Or was that just another Florida oddity?

Ken B said...

“ Why is an intermediary required?”

Socialists, always thinking you can just cut out the middle man.

Drago said...

Anne: "At any rate, the damage came not from an accidental transmission of virus from animal to human, but in the lies and cover-up that followed. I find it all too plausible that the Chinese allowed the virus to spread as a means of indirect warfare against the US."

Uh oh.

You criticized China.

ARM and Inga wont like that. And you'll be able to tell Ken B is upset about it as well when he pokes his head out from under Ingas skirt.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Ken B said...
This should worry anyone


Presumably a loyalty test.

rcocean said...

We had meat before without illegal aliens working in slaughter houses. Its just cheap labor, so the big meat packers can make more $$$. Exploitation at its finest. Liberal/Leftists are OK with it, because they vote Democrat.

J. Farmer said...

What's odd is the Show's writers think Lisa's demented, egomaniac behavior is somehow OK. SHE decides that the rest of society is wrong.

If you believe in animal rights, isn't that the logical conclusion? I don't subscribe to that notion and don't have any moral qualms about animals being killed for food. But I do believe factory farming presents a moral quandary. I do my small part to mitigate it, but I don't see any viable solutions in the near future. I, like most people, deal with it by just pushing it out of my mind.

rcocean said...

I've never heard of anyone selling meat out of the back of a truck. sounds like something from 1940's Mexico.

narciso said...

How did the procedure go anne?

rcocean said...

"If you believe in animal rights, isn't that the logical conclusion?'

What is "animal rights", EXACTLY? BTW, what about carrot rights? DOn't they have a right to live a full carrot life?

Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...

maybe the U.S. needs a "Hysteriaectomy"

...btw, how did the cancer-ectomy go?

J. Farmer said...

Exploitation at its finest. Liberal/Leftists are OK with it, because they vote Democrat.

And the business community loves it because it compresses wages and keeps costs down. Plenty of blame to go around.

rehajm said...

It was nice of all those people to wear a mask so Pence didn't have to...

Shouting Thomas said...

Inga keeps playing the game of percentages to conceal the reality that the absolute number are very very low.

So, as usual, she’s lying.

rcocean said...

THis reminds me of people getting all upset when Dolphins got caught up in Tuna fishing nets. Oh no, lets not hurt those cute dolphins. Well, what about the damn Tuna? Oh that's right, they're not cute and they taste good.

narciso said...

Oops


https://freebeacon.com/coronavirus/police-investigating-death-of-arizona-man-from-chloroquine-phosphate/amp/

narciso said...

Rush had a skit about that.

rcocean said...

"And the business community loves it because it compresses wages and keeps costs down. Plenty of blame to go around."

The populist right tries to do something about it. And the Liberal/left tries to stop them.

Inga said...

“This should worry anyone who understands the line of succession.”

Ken, I don’t why the Mayo Clinic allowed him to go in there unmasked. Who does he think he is? Royalty? That was disgusting.

I guess President Pelosy must sound good to some folks... or something.

rcocean said...

"Rush had a skit about that.'

Comedians were making that joke back in the 80s. Nothing is original.

Mark said...

Over a period of 12 weeks, we should expect 655,000 deaths in the U.S. based on the deaths from past years. According to CDC, there were 679,000 deaths from all causes during the 12 weeks from Feb 1 to April 18, an increase of 24,000.

The number of deaths attributed to covid during that same time are a little more than 30,000, a differential of 6,000.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/COVID19/

J. Farmer said...

What is "animal rights", EXACTLY? BTW, what about carrot rights? DOn't they have a right to live a full carrot life?

A good question for animal rights activists. Peter Singer's book Animal Liberation explores the topic, but I've never read it. There is at least a tacit acknowledgement of such rights in our legal system, since cruelty to animals is a crime and would suggest that animals have a status above mere property. I imagine the argument is something along the lines that psychologically complex animals are capable of experiencing something akin to what we call "suffering."

iowan2 said...

New Zealand and Australia are just coming out of their summer. Experts have informed me the US will for sure have a 2cnd wave this fall/winter, since we have no vaccine, and no heard immunity. The same second wave will attack New Zealand and Australia, or did they not shut down their economy?

Kathryn51 said...

I find it amazing that certain individuals WANT the death rate to be high. They salivate at the idea that the count is actually MUCH higher than previously thought. Only problem: the infection rate is probably even higher - which means the rate is. . . . just about what was predicted.

Meanwhile, a video of two doctors who described how there was pressure to include CV-19 as cause of death was removed from You Tube as "misinformation".

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Another day with a large number of deaths. With the easing of restrictions, both formal and informal, I think it is reasonable to expect a slow recovery.

Original Mike said...

"Australia is comparable. Very large number of immigrants, very active trader, high level of tourism, all of it intimately linked to China."

No, it's not. There are only a handful of entry points. Our harrowing flight from New Zealand was actually a struggle to get through the Sydney airport. On March 20, 21, 22, merely to transit through the Sydney airport required the personal permission for each traveller from Australian Immigration. We watched as the airline gate attendants personally ran through each potential flyer with AU immigration on their personal cell phones. Took us an hour to get our boarding passes and we were the first in line. Most of that line on the 22nd never made it on the plane. On the 21st, the plane never even took off. With the numbers involved, is inconceivable that US customs/immigration could have done that. Australia is not the US.

Shouting Thomas said...

ARM is lying, too, although he’s able to apply a smoother patina to the lying than Inga.

Both of them seem to be in the pay of the CCP in its psyops campaign to terrorize the U.S.

The reality is that the death rates, except for a few locales, are very very low. Infection rates don’t mean much, because most people don’t experience severe symptoms.

The fatality rate in my county is 1.8% of those tested. Obviously, the fatality rate of those infected is a fraction of that, since only those who experience serious symptoms seek out testing.

There is no crisis. Both ARM and are lying outrageously and viciously, spreading a CCP/Democratic Party psyops campaign. Whether the non-crisis is less severe in other countries is the sort of absurd argument that the CCP stooge ARM finds entrancing.

Isn’t it funny? After all that Russia collusion hoax shit, it’s inga who’s the traitor.

Yancey Ward said...

ARM, it is funny, but total mortality in the US as a whole has not spiked. All the articles I see narrow their focus solely on the states where it did- New York, New Jersey, and Michigan. I found it hilarious how the NYTimes only showed a handful of states- you know they looked at all of them, and only included the ones that fit the narrative.

For the record, during the period in question for an apples to apples comparison, total mortality in the US was about 95% of expected. At this point, we do have to ask what it was, exactly, that New York, New Jersey, Michigan, Lousisiana, and now Connecticut and Illinois did wrong?

More and more, and it is a paradox of a kind, I suspect the real error was admitting so many people to the hospitals for treatment. The neat thing about this hypothesis is that it would actually explain the lower total mortality in all the rest of the states with far smaller percentages of hospitalized COVID patients. The lower mortality is simply due to the fact that medical treatment didn't get the chance to kill so many of them.

Germany fits this model, too- they didn't hospitalize nearly as high fraction of patients as has Italy, the UK, Spain, and New York City.

Here is an experiment that should be done, but surely never will be done: Pick 500 COVID-19 positives- send 250 of them their homes to be cared for by family, and hospitalize the rest with a balance of demographics and symptoms in both legs. Tally up the deaths after 2 months. I suspect that such an experiment would demonstrate that being in the hospital (or nursing home for that matter) is a net negative. I am not saying that the hospital is killing the patients, only that they aren't beneficial to saving them.

chickelit said...

Inga wrote: "But seriously, I did just stock up on beef, pork and chicken and now my little extra freezer is filled to the brim between all the stuff I thought I needed. I hope it doesn’t end up getting freezer burn before I use it all up."

Good for you for hoarding. Me, I'm going to wean myself off bacon and steak. Giving them up along with flying on planes and wearing shorts. I'm not giving up beer, tho. Swig Heil!

J. Farmer said...

The populist right tries to do something about it. And the Liberal/left tries to stop them.

And the pro-business right joins in in trying to stop them. This has been an ongoing push from Reagan right up through Obama. Even Trump said that he wants immigrants to come "in the largest numbers ever" and has made Jared Kushner his point person on immigration reform. Ultimately the blame belongs to neoliberalism, the so called "Washington consensus."

Mark said...

What's odd is the Show's writers think Lisa's demented, egomaniac behavior is somehow OK.

???? If think mockery and telling her to go back to Russia is showing approval, I guess.

This is the episode we discussed and quoted a lot last week.

"You don't win friends with salad."

Iman said...

Democracy Dies in Dystopia

Shouting Thomas said...

You’re lying, ARM.

It isn’t a large number of deaths, particularly when you remember that the first estimates from our experts was 2.2 million.

Why do you continue to lie your ass ass?

stevew said...

Cherry picking stats to make and support your argument is so last week. These data don't correlate in any useful way.

I don't buy or consume cheap meat, only the best for me and mine. Likewise beer, wine, and spirits. I do enjoy an occasional inexpensive cigar.

rcocean said...

Pence wasn't wearing a mask - GOTCHA!

Pelosi and Schumer don't wear a mask - Crickets

A Republican is accused of Sexual Harassment - GOTCHA!

Biden is accused of Sexual Harassment - Crickets.

And so it goes.

chickelit said...

"The lower mortality is simply due to the fact that medical treatment didn't get the chance to kill so many of them."

Ouch! That's gonna leave a mark.

narciso said...

Blimey


https://mobile.twitter.com/bdomenech/status/1255283057751404545

Shouting Thomas said...

ARM, along with the other CCP stooges hopes for a slow recovery.

This has been a campaign of economic sabotage perpetrated by the CCP/Dem axis, abetted by fools like ARM.

Inga said...

“I find it amazing that certain individuals WANT the death rate to be high.”

I don’t know anyone who wants the death rate to be high, however I do want accurate reporting, as do most people I expect.

J. Farmer said...

The same second wave will attack New Zealand and Australia, or did they not shut down their economy?

The virus can effectively be eliminated if you get the R0 below one. But that requires intensive testing of the population, tracing who they have been in contact with, and isolating them from the general population. I don't see that being a viable option for us.

Iman said...

Glad someone is paying attention...

Good stuff, Rehajm !!

Shouting Thomas said...

Stop trying to spread panic, ARM.

There’s no crisis. There never was.

Spreading this panic is irresponsible, vicious behavior.

Mark said...

Eat dolphin safe tuna.

https://youtu.be/2zkrC_acKgc?t=108

gilbar said...

there was something, that we heard ALL THE TIME, about a month ago
THE US IS JUST LIKE ITALY, YOU'RE JUST TWO WEEKS BEHIND!

remember that? It's funny, how you don't hear that anymore
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/italy/

Ken B said...

Inga
Yes, Pence's behavior there isn’t very good.
Trump is a prime example of the “comorbidities” they scream about here, and even healthy men in their 70s sometimes have events.

Yancey Ward said...

Every person I have ever known who was in a hospital for an extended time expressed how stressful the experience was, and how they immediately felt better on going home. Hospitals are net benefits in the case of life-threatening conditions like accidents, strokes, and heart attacks, but I doubt the benefit with COVID-19- the data doesn't actually support that they are.

Shouting Thomas said...

No, J. Farmer, the virus cannot and will not be eliminated.

You’re just wrong.

And, if that’s the goal, then we’ll under house arrest with our civil liberties revoked for the remainder of our lives.

Will you bullshit artists quit pretending you know what you’re talking about?

chickelit said...

I lived in Zurich in the early 90's during a time when meat was far too expensive to eat on daily basis. It's entirely doable. But not beer though. Beer was cheap in Switzerland.

Inga said...

“I don't buy or consume cheap meat, only the best for me and mine.”

How fortunate for you, however the majority of Americans can’t purchase expensive butcher shop meats.

Mark said...

The weekend lag.

rcocean said...

"The business right doesn't excuse the liberal/left"

I've noticed that with liberals/leftists/"reasonable conservatives". They simply cannot attack the liberal/left. Nope, any attack must be coupled with either a disclaimer "while I loathe the right wing, blah blah" or an attack on the right. Both sides are to blame. However, the liberals/leftists/"reasonable conservatives" rarely almost never couple an attack on the Right with an attack on the Liberal/left.

So everything its either "Both sides are to blame" or "The Right is to blame".

Anyway, I'm off to the real world.

Yancey Ward said...

Every single Tuesday shows the exact same spike- it is an artifact of the drops on Saturday, Sunday, and even Monday. It is like it takes a day for people to catch up with those who died over the weekend.

J. Farmer said...

This has been a campaign of economic sabotage perpetrated by the CCP/Dem axis, abetted by fools like ARM.

Oh, enough already with this nonsense. You think places like South Korea, Taiwan, and New Zealand took the actions they did because of a "CCP/Dem" axis. It's just this kind of stupid, room temperature IQ thinking that has allowed the establishment consensus to get away with selling out America for the last 40 years.

Shouting Thomas said...

@gilbar

We’ve got a bunch of either extremely vicious or cowardly people here spreading CCP/Dem psyops propaganda.

There is no crisis. It was all bullshit to undermine Trump.

Infection rates don’t mean shit. Ultimately, a very high percentage of people will be infected. Far less than 1% will die.

Stop spreading this vicious, cowardly propaganda. Stop now. You’re damaging your country and hurting your neighbors by doing this.

Mark said...

I suspect the real error was admitting so many people to the hospitals for treatment.

Certainly we are finding that ventilators aren't helping that many people, with 80-85 percent of them ultimately dying. They might even be counterproductive, as a study in Stat showed a couple of weeks ago.

Anne-I-Am said...

Thanks for asking, to those who inquired. It went well. I watched and got a primer in dermatologic surgery. A long incision--five inches. No weight training/yoga/lifting until I rip out the sutures because they itch. Doc said running is ok, so out I went for a 6 mile trail run. Some blood coming through the pressure bandage; I may have to put a tighter wrap over it.

Doc is confident it is, in her words, "in the rear-view mirror." Another cool scar, to join the barbed wire cut right above it.

And BTW, subcutaneous fat is just disgusting-looking.

Shouting Thomas said...

You dumb fucker, j. Farmer

The virus was deliberately seeded in the U.S. by the Chinese by dispatching 10s of 1000s of people from Wuhan on commercial flights to the U.S.

Stop spreading CCP/Dem psyops propaganda, you dumb shift kid.

Mark said...

I'll bet if you look at the matter historically, hospitals are places to avoid during epidemics, whether during peacetime or wartime disease outbreaks.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Original Mike said...
only a handful of entry points


If you scale for population there are probably more entry points, largely driven by tourism. Your personal experience in the middle of a plague points to why the Australians have done well.

Inga said...

“Oh, enough already with this nonsense. You think places like South Korea, Taiwan, and New Zealand took the actions they did because of a "CCP/Dem" axis. It's just this kind of stupid, room temperature IQ thinking that has allowed the establishment consensus to get away with selling out America for the last 40 years.”

American Democrats are very powerful and they secretly rule the world, don’t you know?

narciso said...

I imagine so, god this argument clinic gets annoying, thats why ive offered a few alternatives.

Shouting Thomas said...

Now, I’ve got other things to do, you idiots, but I’m going to suggest one more time that you cease spreading this CCP/Dem psyops campaign intended to panic and terrorize your fellow citizens.

Stop doing this.

J. Farmer said...

@rcocean:

I've noticed that with liberals/leftists/"reasonable conservatives". They simply cannot attack the liberal/left.

Who do you think is more worthy of attack, the people who tell you straight up that they plan to sell you out or the people who say they have your best interest at heart and then sell you out? Attacking on your left doesn't do much good if it leaves your right defenseless and open to attack. The fundamental flaw in your strategy is to assume that if you defeat the liberal/left, you will have won. I'm not sure what in the last 40 years has made you confident in that proposition. And recall that my side of conservatism has been labeled the "far right" not just by the liberal/left but by establishment conservatism as well. Pat Buchanan was warning about immigration and free trade back in the early 90s, but he was unacceptable to mainstream conservatives because he was insufficiently deferential to Israel. Perhaps the right ought to get its priorities in order.

gilbar said...

Absent a vaccine or effective pharmaceutical treatment, we are basically left with letting the virus run its course through the population with some mitigation efforts to slow the spread.

Serious question
For the amount of money we've spent (LOST) because of our lockdown, how much mitigation efforts could we have boughten for our at risk populations?

chickelit said...

"And the business community loves it because it compresses wages and keeps costs down. Plenty of blame to go around."

And the average Walmart shopper is OK with that because they get cheap eats. Just don't say that it's news. People have been pointing out the collusion between the left and the right on immigration for years now.

Shouting Thomas said...

Yes, Inga, the Democratic Party is openly allied with the CCP.

Turns out you’re the traitor. A very vicious one, too.

Funny, huh?

J. Farmer said...

The virus was deliberately seeded in the U.S. by the Chinese by dispatching 10s of 1000s of people from Wuhan on commercial flights to the U.S.

Yeah, okay. Let me know when you have any other theories you've pulled straight out of your ass.

Kevin said...

I imagine the argument is something along the lines that psychologically complex animals are capable of experiencing something akin to what we call "suffering."

Then they must be staunchly pro-life.

Or they’re just full of shit.

narciso said...

Watching reilly ace of spies based om the memoir by robert bruce lockhart the patriach of three generations ofbritish spies reilly aka solomon rosemblum was james bond almost two generations before fleming but pen to paper.

Mark said...

Starbuck goes after the White Whale.

Shouting Thomas said...

ARM, you dumb liar, shut up.

You’re worse than that traitor Inga.

Tell me again about how you’re just like an MD, with your deep knowledge of clinical trials.

You know, there are times when it’s a good idea to stop being a jackass bullshit artist, ARM. Stop. Go do something else. Do anything except this stupid asshole act.

Anne-I-Am said...

Popular things that are overrated:

The Amish.

Dolphins.

Seinfeld.

Any mask that isn't N95.

Josephbleau said...

“The virus can effectively be eliminated if you get the R0 below one. But that requires intensive testing of the population, tracing who they have been in contact with, and isolating them from the general population. I don't see that being a viable option for us.”

Have you looked at the rt.live/ website, almost all states have an R0 lower than 1 now.

J. Farmer said...

For the amount of money we've spent (LOST) because of our lockdown, how much mitigation efforts could we have boughten for our at risk populations?

Depends how you count "out risk." Heart diseases, pulmonary problems, and obesity cover a fairly large percentage of the population. Many of those people also live with not at risk populations, which is another challenge to socially distancing just the at risk. Death is not the only concern, since a not insignificant amount of those infected end up hospitalized, with a subset of those going to the ICU. An initial lockdown was justified given the lack of ability to test the population and the amount that was not known about the virus' spread or presentation.

Shouting Thomas said...

J.Farmer.

You’re a dumb fucking little boy.

Stop being a fucking asshole.

Mark said...

Earlier on Trek, they showed the alarmist overreaction to Humanae Vitae and the need for population control.

narciso said...

Many of his early missions involved commercial interests oil interests in baku a certain gun design in hamburg.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

iowan2 said...
The same second wave will attack New Zealand and Australia, or did they not shut down their economy?


Australia had a strong but relatively brief lockdown. They are facing a recession for the first time in nearly thirty years, although there are multiple factors contributing to this.

gilbar said...

An initial lockdown was justified given the lack of ability to test

Like in Vietnam... Let's Declare VICTORY, and Go Back To Work!

Anne-I-Am said...

Here we go, something to read that is relevant, unconnected to the Chinese Lung AIDS, and a fruitful area for discussion:

Take the Clear Pill

From the guy who popularized the phrase "red-pilled." A very intriguing read.

J. Farmer said...

Have you looked at the rt.live/ website, almost all states have an R0 lower than 1 now.

The outbreak has already spread, so the drop is expected given the degree to which people have lessened contact with other people. But we can't maintain the conditions of the past month for the next several months.

Shouting Thomas said...

J.Farmer,

Here’s the story, dumb fuck. You’re almost as irritating as ARM and just as stupid.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/04/us/coronavirus-china-travel-restrictions.html

Shouting Thomas said...

What kind of work do you do, Farmer?

You seem to be pretending to have some sort of expertise.

I suspect you’re just another bullshit artist like ARM.

stevew said...

It's not fortune, Inga, it's a choice. We don't consume it all the time, just when we do we spend a bit more for the best. LOLGF with your condescending bs.

Yancey Ward said...

Australia and New Zealand had two big things going for them- New Zealand is a small island nation, and Australia is a big one. There are few entry points to either one, and the ones they have they control very well. They also locked the borders early on and never had a large number of cases at any point- it is situations like that where test and trace can work with social distancing to extinguish the virus quickly, but simply doesn't describe the US and Europe. Europe will largely be ok after the panic dies down- any second wave there is likely to be confined to the countries that shut down early and effectively- Denmark, Finland, Austria, maybe, and Portugal. Every other country in Europe will be far closer to herd immunity, or at it in the case of the cities of Spain, northern Italy, France, and England.

In the US, the places most at risk for a second wave will likely be in California, but I don't expect it to be big even there. US cities are far more like Los Angeles than they are like New York and the Acela corridor. The northeast and the big cities in the midwest should be ok with a far smaller second wave than will be seen even in Europe.

New York was just going to get plastered regardless of what the federal, state, or city government did. There is cost to that kind of density in living and transportation, and they are paying it right now.

Mark said...

What will be will be.

Be prudent, be wise, be safe. But then you simply have to get out there and live. And what happens, happens.

walter said...

FWIW, we have repeatedly seen The Fauch and Birx with the others sans mask.

Shouting Thomas said...

FYI, I actually worked in clinical drug trials for Pfizer and WebMD.

I worked on huge trials that were so expensive that Pfizer and WebMD partnered with drug companies in Japan and Europe to spread the cost.

My job was to put together a multimedia dbase to disseminate the work of microbiologists, pharmacologists, chemists, MDs and other experts as they conducted the trials.

narciso said...

Moldbug did like to stretch a theory to the breaking point, ofcourse al queda was responsible for 9/11 but they couldnt have pulled it off without a support network in the states and europe that prevailed because the ostensible objectives of some elements coincided with us and european policies.

Original Mike said...

"If you scale for population there are probably more entry points, largely driven by tourism."

I don't think so. There are only 4 or 5 real international airports in Australia. Sydney, Canberra, Melbourne, Brisbane.

Anne-I-Am said...

Wise words, Mark.

And in other news:

IGNORE IGNORE IGNORE.

ST: You are being an ass. Just stop.

Inga said...

“LOLGF with your condescending bs.”

What is condescending is bragging about how you don’t eat cheap meat and eat only the best most expensive cuts. You sound as if you are negating any concern about the safety of workers or the safety of the meat most Americans eat, by bragging about your ability to buy only the best.

narciso said...

Interesting history channel is still following supposedly yamashitas gold

Mark said...

The average of the last three days, to take into account the Sunday lag, is 1670. The average of the four days prior was 2180.

ALP said...

I was watching a global review of cases the other day - noted that both Iceland and New Zealand seemed to have shut down borders pretty quick. Both countries are gorgeous tourist magnets - beautiful natural places getting more and more overrun with Instagrammers and Destination Weddings. I'll bet leaders of both countries were all "This is a great opportunity to SHUT this SHIT DOWN...maybe we can get some peace and quiet and a break from tourists for a while."

Ken B said...

ST
Are you gonna take that from Anne?
By the way, did you go out unmasked, or are you still plotting your act of rebellion?

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Direct flights from China:

Adelaide Airport (ADL)
Brisbane Airport (BNE)
Cairns Airport (CNS)
Darwin International Airport (DRW)
Melbourne Airport (MEL)
Perth Airport (PER)
Sydney Kingsford Smith Airport (SYD)

Scaled for population that is equivalent to 92 entry points.

narciso said...

I think raised that point, it was the subtext for the events in cryptonomicon, which are in part based on david kahns the code breakers. The trick as alan turing discovered once you break the enemy code you have to be careful how you use that info, making sure the enemy doesnt fugure out why it happened. Hence coventry had to happen.

Jon Ericson said...

A student of Baffegab Chomsky.

Gahrie said...

Like in Vietnam... Let's Declare VICTORY

We did win in Vietnam. When we left in 1973, the Viet Cong and North Vietnamese military were destroyed. South Vietnam had a functioning democratic government, a functioning free market economy and secure borders.

We lost the peace when the Democratic Congress refused to honor our promise and return to help South Vietnam when the North re-invaded in 1975.

Mark said...

By the way, Quest Diagnostics is offering the long-term IgG antibody test at their nationwide locations.

https://questdirect.questdiagnostics.com/products/covid-19-immune-response/b580e541-78a5-48a6-b17b-7bad949dcb57

https://www.questdiagnostics.com/home/Covid-19/HCP/antibody/

In addition to getting your results online, they are being used as part of a nationwide study.

Inga said...

“ST
Are you gonna take that from Anne?
By the way, did you go out unmasked, or are you still plotting your act of rebellion?”

Chuckling...

Michael K said...

ARM and Chuck and Inga,

Bye.

Anne-I-Am said...

I want to re-read Cryptonomicon.

J. Farmer said...

What kind of work do you do, Farmer?

You seem to be pretending to have some sort of expertise.


It doesn't take "expertise" to understand that you can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into. And it doesn't take "expertise" to know the value of blind conjectures with zero evidence. You're not even floating it as a possibility but claiming utter certainty.

Here’s the story, dumb fuck.

Human-to-human transmission was confirmed January 19th. Wuhan was locked down on January 23rd. Trump announced travel restrictions on February 2nd, ten days later. By your own reasoning (and I use that term very loosely), Trump must be part of the conspiracy. Please have a seat.

narciso said...

Hc is finally going away fron superstorms and the davinci code aka the priory du sion hoax.

Original Mike said...

Inga! We missed you on the Russian collusion thread today! We needed your expertise.

narciso said...

Its a hefty tome, with two different generations one in the european and pacific theatre

Mark said...

At the beginning of all this drama, the words, "Remember you are dust and unto dust you shall return," was still fresh in our ears.

Take precautions, but do not let pride let fear and anxiety overwhelm you.

Gahrie said...

What's odd is the Show's writers think Lisa's demented, egomaniac behavior is somehow OK. SHE decides that the rest of society is wrong. Lisa Decides that her feelings are the correct way to eat and everyone else is wrong. .

Lisa is the embryonic SJW.

narciso said...

Indeed we are sojourners in this world, if you think this all there is, thats a putiful lot.

Shouting Thomas said...

Yes, it’s crazy to think that the Democratic Party would conspire with the CCP.

It was crazy 3-1/2 years ago to say that the Democratic Party would:

- Rig its own primaries
- Hire a British spy to write a fake dossier to start the Russia collusion hoax
- Use the FBI to spy on the Trump campaign
- Take massive bribes from Ukraine and China
- Try to impeach Trump to conceal that pattern of bribery
- Accuse Trump of being a racist for trying to stop the influx of Chinese into the U.S. in January

I could go on with the list, but I won’t.

It’s you folks who are being assholes. Stopped being taken in by the CCP/Dem psyops campaign. That’s all that’s going on here.

Try to control your fear, panic and your BS pretending, and stop aiding this psyops campaign.

I tried, assholes. Stop fucking your own country and fellow citizens.

Mark said...

Apu tells Lisa that she is a moral monster.

Kathryn51 said...

Re: IHME

Tonight, Dr. Murray (IHME)appeared on Martha McCallum's show and explained the uptick in projected Covid deaths (model updated late 4/27). Very informative (much based on NYC stats). I was glad to see he was willing to appear on Fox and assumed that he would be on all of the other news outlets.

Well, surprise, surprise. Fox - the alleged non-science network - is the only network (as far as I can tell) that interviewed anyone from IHME.

I checked news for CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS and NPR - nada. Zip. Nothin'

But Fox is the one that doesn't talk to the scientists???

chickelit said...

Original Mike said...Inga! We missed you on the Russian collusion thread today! We needed your expertise.

Inga, Farmer, ARM, et al. are studiously avoiding that thread. The reasons why are outlined there.

Jon Ericson said...

Oops.

Drago said...

Inga: "American Democrats are very powerful and they secretly rule the world, don’t you know?"

They were very effective in framing Flynn and Papadopolous and getting morons to buy into it, like Inga.

Which is surprising because Inga spent 4 years reading minds but didnt pick up on the fraud.

Strange.

Inga said...

“Inga! We missed you on the Russian collusion thread today! We needed your expertise.”

Nothing could be more boring to me, I’d rather watch paint dry. Life and death issues are far more interesting.

narciso said...

The last one of stephensons i read was the dodo one which involved time trav and whitchcraft, it went to two many places

Mark said...

It's not just the Dems, but American capitalists have been all too happy to sell communist China the nooses that it is trying to hang us with.

Then again, U.S. industry is increasingly Dem.

Gahrie said...

But I do believe factory farming presents a moral quandary

It's not the best situation for the animals or us, but unless we intend to retuen to he days when 90% of the population lived on farms, there aren't any real alternatives.

The best we can do is to make it as humane and sanitary as possible. (by the way, notice the word "humane" means being compassionate, while "animalistic" is defined as brutality. There is a reason for that. Humans are different from all of the other animals. A boy is not a fish, a rat...)

Drago said...

Chickelit"The reasons why are outlined there."

They have already moved on to their ChiCom hoaxes as if 4+ years of daily russian collusion talking points never happened at all.

chickelit said...

Shouting Thomas said...Yes, it’s crazy to think that the Democratic Party would conspire with the CCP.

I'll give you this. For all the damage covid19 has caused, you'd think that the NYT would be mildly interested in the root causes and China's blatant opacity regarding the matter. Yet they remain vastly incurious about Wuhan. That's why they look like like they're doing China's bidding.

narciso said...

I showed have borrowed that one from the local library before it closed.

J. Farmer said...

chickelit:

Inga, Farmer, ARM, et al. are studiously avoiding that thread. The reasons why are outlined there.

You must have missed the numerous times I've referred to Russian collusion as a hoax and declared I was paying no attention to any of the coverage. The whole thing has been a desperate, pathetic attempt to blame everyone but Hillary for the 2016 loss.

Anne-I-Am said...

Last one I tried to read was Seveneves. I couldn't make it through. Anathem was hard enough.

Mark said...

With Enterprise and Shran ending, just in time for Weyoun to begin ramping up.

J. Farmer said...

@Gahrie:

I agree with everything you wrote.

Drago said...

Inga: "Nothing could be more boring to me,..."

If you get bored when your psychotic lies catch up with you I imagine you spend most days bored.

narciso said...

I tried both seveneves and readme, i glanced at his last because i heard it brought back a character from cryptonomicon but its two thick in the weeds.

chickelit said...

Inga said...Nothing could be more boring to me, I’d rather watch paint dry. Life and death issues are far more interesting.

That must be a lie given your past proclivities for watching such paint dry. I prefer to think it's because what happened to Flynn is just morally indefensible. There is no "other side" to argue in that case so it's best for you to just ignore it. But don't be surprised when you get drago'd again and again. You bring it upon yourself.

Anne-I-Am said...

An interesting (older) movie is Super Volcano.. Let's hope Yellowstone never blows.

Guildofcannonballs said...

"Cheap meat comes with a price, folks."

Obviously you hate your mom.

J. Farmer said...

@Shouting Thomas:

I tried, assholes. Stop fucking your own country and fellow citizens.

Notice that there is not been a single instance of me telling you what to do. Please reciprocate the courtesy.

Guildofcannonballs said...

Doom is a constant in life, amongst the old.

Not the middle-aged.

Fool.

Roughcoat said...

We did win in Vietnam. When we left in 1973, the Viet Cong and North Vietnamese military were destroyed. South Vietnam had a functioning democratic government, a functioning free market economy and secure borders.

Excuse me, but ... that's a crock of shit.

Anne-I-Am said...

Decoupling from China

J. Farmer said...

Speaking of "experts," when did it become routine for news channels to feature "body language experts?" It all seems like a bunch of BS to me.

Guildofcannonballs said...

My Billionaire idea is this: Jack Russet Terrior.

320Busdriver said...

gilbar said...
Serious question
For the amount of money we've spent (LOST) because of our lockdown, how much mitigation efforts could we have boughten for our at risk populations?

Paul Romers plan to test everyone twice a month would cost 100B over a year. We are bleeding 500B per MONTH!! In lockdown.

Big Mike said...

I don’t know anyone who wants the death rate to be high

You man besides yourself and Ken B., right, Inga?

J. Farmer said...

@Anne:

Decoupling from China

Michta wrote a book on NATO many years ago that I completely disagreed with. But he has been excellent on China.

Original Mike said...

"Nothing could be more boring to me, I’d rather watch paint dry."

Jesus Christ on a Harley. NOBODY here, who watched months upon months of "No one knows what Mueller knows!", believes you. You were had.

They say that confession is good for the soul.

Jon Ericson said...

I like it when Inger gets Drago'd.

Guildofcannonballs said...

Also, the Jewell hit: Dreams last for so long, even after you're gone... I don't leave wet towels, on the floor anymore.

Just think about it.

Just you stop and think about it...

SHE LEARNED FROM THE EXPERIENCE NOT TO LEAVE WET TOWELS ON THE FLOOR ANYMORE.

Roughcoat said...

I imagine the argument is something along the lines that psychologically complex animals are capable of experiencing something akin to what we call "suffering."

How asinine is that. They don't experience "something akin to what we call "suffering," they experience suffering ... straight up.

You've managed to write a sentence that produces a strong urge in me to bitch slap you to your knees.

Gahrie said...

Pat Buchanan was warning about immigration and free trade back in the early 90s, but he was unacceptable to mainstream conservatives because he was insufficiently deferential to Israel.

Look, I loved Pat. I thought very hard about supporting his candidacy. I supported most of his domestic policy positions. I just couldn't sign on to his foreign policy. Our (Farmer and me) biggest disputes are always over foreign policy. You want to retreat and bunker up, while I want a Pax Americana.

His views on race were antiquated.

narciso said...

One contemporary of ian fleming was grahan greene, he operated largely out of portugal which was largely a neutral country , (nudge nudge)

Ken B said...

Inga “ Nothing could be more boring to me”

Oh use your imagination girl! Drago naked, or My Autobiography by Birkel.

Inga said...

“But don't be surprised when you get drago'd again and again.”

I’m not surprised by Drago, ST, or Achilles anymore. Their schtick has become so predictable and boring and I have better things to do with my precious time than to argue never ending conspiracy theories.

narciso said...


Apropo of nothing

https://harpers.org/2020/04/everything-is-illuminated-william-blake-tate-museum/

cubanbob said...

Birkel said...
The hypothesis is that the Chinese, with some US government money (Thanks, Obama!) to the lab allowed them to splice certain parts of the HIV RNA into the naturally found bat virus, using CRISPR technology."

Setting aside the crazy aspect of this, suppose it were true. Have the Chinese accidentally created a vaccine for HIV? That would be awsome!

Jon Ericson said...

Karen B and Inger.
A Love Story

Inga said...

“Oh use your imagination girl! Drago naked, or My Autobiography by Birkel.”

Oh thanks! Now I have that image in my mind. Thanks for reminding me of Birkel, another one to not bother with, life is too short.

Ken B said...

Memorializing Big Mike, again. Not his first time with this slur:
Blogger Big Mike said...
I don’t know anyone who wants the death rate to be high

You man besides yourself and Ken B., right, Inga?
————————-

It’s just free flowing hate Inga. Ward takes us to task for (he says) sacrifici g too much to save lives, and Big Mike takes us to task for not wanting to save lives. But they are both full of shit, venting their rage at being contradicted.

Jon Ericson said...

*squick* *squick*

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