The subheadline is "'I have not stopped crying,' said an expectant mother who learned that her husband could not be with her when she gives birth." First paragraph:
Women giving birth at two leading New York City hospital networks are being told they must labor without spouses, partners or doulas by their side — leaving the expectant mothers anxious and frightened about their upcoming deliveries.My comment at Facebook:
Oh! I misread the headline. This is so much less bad than I thought. Something I'd been saying since I saw the restrictions on abortion in Ohio was that it's a bad time to be pregnant because you don't know what the situation will be months from now. I pictured the *women* excluded from medical care, forced to do home births.John said:
Yeah, the New York Times headline is false. They won’t be “alone.” They’ll be assisted by doctors and nurses.I said:
I know. I took the actual words seriously. The Times is so upbeat. It didn't even consider how the literal meaning is a thing that could happen.Here's the post of mine from 3 days ago about the Ohio restrictions:
What if, 9 months from now, women are left to give birth on their own — home births for everybody, without a doctor or even a doula? It will be a time of people dying alone from coronavirus, suffering and pleading visibly on Twitter, and begging for help that will never come....As for my fear of people dying alone, this morning I saw this on Instapundit:
UGH: Spanish Military Finds Dead Bodies And Seniors ‘Completely Abandoned’ In Care Homes.
Posts
113 comments:
The husband is nonessential.
Yeah, the New York Times headline is false.
How "unexpected"?!?!?
Put the live video feeds on the Times Square screens. Then they won't feel all alone.
Was it the 70's that fathers were first required in delivery rooms--back when 2nd wave feminism was first making women strong and independent?
The fact that you read that headline literally indicates a lack of common Sense. It's usually horses not zebras and especially not unicorns
This is a post just begging for an rhhardin comment...
When you shut down the economy for an extended period you'll find seniors dead in their homes from being cut off from the supply chain.
Howard, don't be a jerk.
The headline says: "Some Pregnant Women in New York City Will Have to Deliver Babies Alone."
How hard would it have been to replace "alone" with "without fathers present" or just completely re-write it to say "Some Women will need to deliver without dad in the room".
You know why, not scary enough. Not enough "sizzle". Fishwrap going to fishwrap...
It’s just this war and that lying son of a bitch Trump....
Remember the 2003 heat wave in Europe? 30k estimated deaths, perhaps as many as 70k. Elderly in Paris and other cities were found dead in their homes, some in homes they shared with their children, who had left the city for vacations on the coasts. This will be no different. It's one thing to take care of an elderly person when contact is permitted. How do you balance the need for physical contact (mobility, bathing, etc.) with the need for distance, especially if you and grandma can't afford home health care, assisted living, or delivery?
As an ex-hippie, I found this post rather humorous.
During the hippie era, it was all the fashion to declare that the notion that childbirth is a medical procedure was symptomatic of a distorted, industrialized, commercialized vision of women and nature.
Giving birth alone at home or with the assistance of a naturalist midwife was all the rage when I lived in San Francisco.
Childbirth is natural and beautiful! was the motto of the day. Furthermore, subjecting a newborn child to the harsh sterility and machine laden environment of an operating room brings a terrified and isolated baby into this world!
A truly conscious woman should give birth at home, and then plunge the baby into a warm, bubbling bath! Thus introducing the child to the world as a comforting, nurturing environment.
There is a petition to oppose this. Several local mothers and fathers to be to be are very unhappy about this. I am neutral but see it as a hardship for those involved.
https://www.change.org/p/andrew-m-cuomo-safeguard-the-right-of-all-laboring-people-during-covid-19-crisis?utm_content=cl_sharecopy_20977409_en-US%3Av1&recruiter=947235356&recruited_by_id=21127eb0-56cf-11e9-9c68-bdb9ea932fff&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink&utm_campaign=psf_combo_share_initial&utm_term=psf_combo_share_initial
The fact that you read that headline literally indicates a lack of common Sense. It's usually horses not zebras and especially not unicorns
Headlines should not be ambiguous, but it's fun when they are.
Boo Hoo. Men are supposed to sit in the waiting room drinking bourbon and smoking.
I'm not being a jerk Todd. I'm being a prick about it. I'm sorry if you disapprove of me holding our esteemed hostess to a high standard.
The Babylon Bee is in top form -
San Francisco Asks Homeless Residents To Poop At Home
Journalists Investigating Ways To Make Crisis All About Them
God To Ignore Quarantine And Continue Being Everywhere
Lysol Introduces Shoulder-Mounted Turret That Automatically Blasts Anyone Who Coughs Within Six Feet Of You
Dems Worried Stimulus Bill Would Stimulate Economy
Spring Breakers Arrange Scattered Corpses To Spell Out YOLO
Congress Assures Nation They're Working Tirelessly To Figure Out How To Take Advantage Of This Crisis
There's a Reddit page called doula banjos. It's short.
"Asked my son to set up a cheese plate. Apparently he wasn't paying attention in geography.
by CheeseheadDave in mildlyinfuriating
The cheese board is shaped like Wisconsin. It’s not oriented like the state is on the map...."
Tcrosse... I'm afraid you have it exactly backwards my friend. Headlines should always be ambiguous and confusing as the key design element able to produce an autonomic emotional response in the reader.
Maybe I’m mistaken but I detect a note of surprise in this post, as if the writer believes the NYT is usually honest in the headlines it chooses. If Sunday night’s evolution from “Democrats block...” to their eventual headline of “McConnel blocks...” didn’t reveal their perfidy what will?
On the bright side, in about nine months we will have a whole new crop of cute childbirth sitcom episodes.
A lot of the old ones involved cab drivers. Have the already been recycled with Uber and Lyft references?
Rather perversely, this post brought to mind this scene from Monty Python's "The Meaning of Life."
“As an ex-hippie, I found this post rather humorous.
During the hippie era, it was all the fashion to declare that the notion that childbirth is a medical procedure was symptomatic of a distorted, industrialized, commercialized vision of women and nature.”
Yep. I was never a hippie but I remember all that. It still goes on. There are internet groups touting “natural” childbirth.
Headline: Howard and tcrosse butt heads.
"A NYT headline I took literally and seriously"
Funny stuff.
"leaving the expectant mothers anxious and frightened about their upcoming deliveries"
You knew it was coning: "Women hardest hit!" Next up: minorities.
"UGH: Spanish Military Finds Dead Bodies And Seniors ‘Completely Abandoned’ In Care Homes."
Fake news, no doubt. That can't be true. They have socialized care over there and everything is better in Europe, our model.
Nomadic cultures generally mercifully killed or just abandoned those who were too old to travel. So it could be worse.
“I'm not being a jerk Todd. I'm being a prick about it. I'm sorry if you disapprove of me holding our esteemed hostess to a high standard.“
I'm with Howard this time. Hardin too although he hasn’t commented yet.
Remember those abandoned during the french heat wave in 2003?
Howard said...
I'm not being a jerk Todd. I'm being a prick about it. I'm sorry if you disapprove of me holding our esteemed hostess to a high standard.
3/25/20, 8:28 AM
So, she is supposed to intuit what the headline means? I don't mind a "cute" headline that plays on the content but this is not cute. It was selected to scare and overplay the point.
As to "jerk" ver "prick", care to share the difference? I am curious to your view.
Thanks for the clip Thomas it's very hilarious never saw that movie. They did a very nice job of predicting the gender confusion of the future (present) by shutting down her question on the sex of the child
"The husband is nonessential." The perfect first comment.
If I was an expectant father, I'd welcome this news.
Todd: whole purpose of headlines is to convey a sense of fear or dread panic some sort of emotional response from the reader it's really the original clickbait. So if you read a headline and assume that it is factually correct that means you're an idiot. and since you can't even grasp that basic concept why would I want to discuss fine details on the differences between being a mere jerk and a prick.
Althouse, "I know. I took the actual words seriously. The Times is so upbeat. It didn't even consider how the literal meaning is a thing that could happen."
The NYT wants to scare you and everyone else. Shameful doesn't begin to describe the behavior of the Fake News the last several weeks.
Hey! Just thought though of a whole new career and I bet it's wide open.
You know who people would love to be able to call if their dog is about to have puppies?
That's right. A dog doula.
I'm tellin' ya, this is gonna be yuge!
The husband is nonessential.
Same line in the Monty Python skit!
I'm not old enough to remember, but isn't it only fairly recently in modern history that fathers were even allowed in the delivery room? I was there for our three children and really appreciated the experience, BTW.
We have a despicable and unreliable media.
"So if you read a headline and assume that it is factually correct that means you're an idiot."
I guess I am an idiot because that's how I read it.
My grandmother gave birth to my aunt on 7th May 1945. Her husband wasn't there. He was in Berlin. I kept that fact in mind whenever I felt myself getting too precious about my birthing arrangements. It helped.
Here we are: mid '60s.
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2017/06/18/532921305/this-fathers-day-remembering-a-time-when-dads-werent-welcome-in-delivery-r
Mumble mumble control the narrative... What else can be expected of English majors?
In Spain dog owners are renting their pooches out to be walked. Taking a stroll is verboten, but walking a dog is allowed.
Why does anybody still read this crap paper?? Are you that desperate for news???
The inappropriate word in the headline isn’t “alone”, it’s “forced”. That's what set Althouse off on her fantasy of women as helpless victims of the medical establishment, banned from care ...
"A NYT headline I took literally and seriously..."
I take it Bigly and Fakely.
Howard said...
Todd: whole purpose of headlines is to convey a sense of fear or dread panic some sort of emotional response from the reader it's really the original clickbait. So if you read a headline and assume that it is factually correct that means you're an idiot. and since you can't even grasp that basic concept why would I want to discuss fine details on the differences between being a mere jerk and a prick.
3/25/20, 8:45 AM
So your goto is to be both a jerk and a prick? Got it. Shame on me for expecting other than the usual Howard from you. I shall not make that mistake again.
Being a young adult during the late 50s and 60s must have been exhilarating. So much changed so fast!
I'm not old enough to remember, but isn't it only fairly recently in modern history that fathers were even allowed in the delivery room?
OR even wanted to be there.
On the list of terrible-horrible-cruel deprivations caused by the Corona Virus scare, not having your husband and an audience in the delivery room of the hospital.... ...recording your hoohah on their IPhones for YouTube.... this is low low low on the list of things that anyone should be whining abut right now.
Suck it up buttercup. Boo freaking hoo.
After the NYT changed a headline from "Democrats Block Stimulus Bill" to "Partisan Divide Endangers Bill" you'd think people skeptical of the NYT. Or maybe be skeptical because of their 1,000 misleading or just plain wrong Headlines about Mueller-Trump-Russia, or Trump Charlottsville, or Trump/Republican anything.
But people persist in believing the MSM. She persisted.
No kidding, Dust Bunny. First World Problems mostly.
My three oldest kids were born when I, a physician, was not allowed in the delivery room. What crap !
I can't imagine having wanted my husband in the delivery room nor would he have wanted to be. That's what waiting rooms are for.
I've gotten to the point where I disbelieve ANY sensational headline. And I don't believe anything they say about Trump unless I can verify with his actual words or actions. Or through a more trustworhty source.
They're corrupt gang of Left-wingers. When they aren't out to sell papers through hype, they are acting as an unpaid arm of the DNC.
It has become apparent that The New York Times is bad at their job. This assumes their job is supposed to be journalism as opposed to creating narratives or publishing propaganda or soothing the delicate sensibilities of liberals who live in a bubble. Their headline writers are the worst of the bunch since they have been reduced to generating click bait.
I am not sure why we give this newspaper any respect. I will admit that they were worthy of respect sometime in the past, but that institution no longer exists.
Is it common sense to
- reduce the use of masks and gowns during a shortage of both?
- keep potentially infected people who are unnecessary to the birth away from patients and doctors?
I think it is. Horses not zebras, prudence not The Handmaid's Tale
Why would women have to "do it on their own"? Of course, NYC is so crazy, anything is possible in that nut house.
For most of homo sapien existence, old people didn't even exist. Being concerned about a disease that mostly ravages people over 40 is a luxury, in the grand scheme of human history. Men, you are fortunate to have lived long enough to pass on your DNA, and found a mate willing to allow it.
If Trump had been the source of that headline, NYT would have attacked him for deliberately misleading the public...
Actually, if you go back far enough, a lot of our ancestors were deadbeat rapists.
Allowing men into the delivery room is extremely pragmatic: it makes them better fathers.
Literally the best experience of my life, so far, and very much made me want to take care of those kids.
My father and his entire generation were banned from the delivery room.
Some women, rather than delivering without their husbands in the room are choosing to deliver at home. Women!!!! My niece who had a perfectly healthy pregnancy had an emergency c-section and her baby needed immediate evaluation upon delivery. She had no reason to expect this. Everything is fine now, but women please reconsider what you are doing.
Someone as skilled at verbal communication as a law professor reads into a newspaper headline a meaning it did not actually have when placed in context. It is then a question whether the headline intentionally misleading. Course of conduct by the Times weighs heavily in favor of intent to mislead.
Maybe the folks at the NYT are just stupid.
New York Times: the very definition of a non-essential business.
For most of homo sapien existence, old people didn't even exist.
"Hunter-gatherers do not experience short, nasty, and brutish lives as some earlier scholars have suggested (Vallois 1961). Instead, there appears to be a characteristic life span for Homo sapiens, in that on average, human bodies function well for about seven decades."
This page has a bunch of fun factoids:
Swedes in 1900 had life expectancy profiles closer to hunter-gatherers than to the Swedes of today."
+
However, data from our population [ hunter-gatherer people (Ache of Paraguay)] show that a significant proportion of the population reaches in the wild 60 and 70 years of age."
What in Hell is a doula? A coach? A cheerleader?
Todd's only defense is that he gets the vapors. Okay how about this you are a douche Drago is a jerk and Rh Hardin is a prick. Do you get me now, sweetheart? Your answer is "it's not a subtle point you're making"
Name the movie for 500 points
I am not sure why we give this newspaper any respect. I will admit that they were worthy of respect sometime in the past, but that institution no longer exists.
This is an honest observation. It has been quite a awhile since the NYT earned or actually demonstrated journalistic competence -- let alone the sort of respect that the Althouse still gives it. The NYT has become at best slipshod journalism and at worst partisan propaganda. The NYT should be ignored and allowed to fold. There are plenty of other independent news sources.
Yea, hunter-gatherers had it pretty well off. They were the lucky ones. The book Sapiens goes into that in some detail.
Make American Women Sacagawea Again!
“Boo Hoo. Men are supposed to sit in the waiting room drinking bourbon and smoking.”
Helping my wife and watching my sons being birthed was the most amazing experience of my life. But I must confess that while I was still in ignorance, if I had been given an honorable choice of opting out, I would have gone for the bourbon and cigars. Like so many things in life, I’m glad now that I didn’t have a choice.
Iman said...What in Hell is a doula? A coach? A cheerleader?
I wondered the same. "Doula" derives from a Greek word meaning "female slave." Personally, I prefer the term " midwife" for the same role because it preserves Germanic words. But most anything German is passé and tainted with fascism these days.
I attended the birth of our children. My father and his fathers before him did not. We'll survive.
Freeman Hunt noted yesterday that this is happening while faith in our institutions is at an all time low.
“For most of homo sapien existence, old people didn't even exist.”
That’s wrong. The average life expectancy was low but a fraction lived to old age. We didn’t have lots of old geezers the way we do now, but we always had some.
Thanks Ken, you said it better. I guess I gave a tendency to overstate things. I should be more careful.
Atlanta's ICU unit is at capacity.
Achilles, FullMoon, narcisco, Fernandistein, Pants, McCullough, rcocean, Ward were unavailable for comment.
I read it that way, too. Weird times now. Anything can happen. Fears of coronavirus, economic depression, societal collapse, and the zombie apocalypse.
#FirstWorldProblems If the headline were "Some Pregnant Women in Kinshasa Will Have to Deliver Their Babies Alone," we'd have been right - and it might not even have been headline-worthy.
Average age includes a lot of infant and childhood mortality. If you actually made it to adulthood, things were not so bleak until you couldn't fend.
chickelit said...
I wondered the same. "Doula" derives from a Greek word meaning "female slave." Personally, I prefer the term " midwife" for the same role because it preserves Germanic words. But most anything German is passé and tainted with fascism these days.
Problem is doulas aren't strictly midwives. A lot of them are just coaches. Historically having a coach or female companion during birth wasn't that unusual. My paternal grandmother gave birth to 14 children with no one other than my great-grandmother, great-aunt and maybe a neighbor lady or two in attendance. It was just the way things were done back then, no one made a big deal out of it.
Ann said
I pictured the *women* excluded from medical care, forced to do home births.
Shame on you, Ann!
Why assume it is a woman giving birth? Men give birth too.
I would expect you to know better. And saying this in a conversation with your son makes you seem ragingly transphobic. Both since he doesn't seem to correct you.
I, myself, don't buy into this bullshit but I'd been under the impression that you thought women could become men, men could become women and it's all peachy keen.
Not America's paper of record (Babylon Bee)
Brown professor apologizes for saying pregnant women have ‘husbands’ in coronavirus newsletter
https://www.thecollegefix.com/brown-professor-apologizes-for-saying-pregnant-women-have-husbands-in-coronavirus-newsletter/
John Henry
Our midwife went to Yale. Doula-Doula, Doula-Doula.
Need more Doulas and mid-wives.
Average age includes a lot of infant and childhood mortality. If you actually made it to adulthood, things were not so bleak until you couldn't fend.
Late Pleistocene adult mortality patterns and modern human establishment
Table: "Distributions of younger and older adults for Late Pleistocene samples"
About 20+% were older than 40 years (their def'n of "older"), which isn't all that old, but if you made to 40, the death rate remained almost constant until 60-70.
I remember reading a story of a Chinese missionary doctor telling of a refugee march during wwii or maybe during the Civil War after.
They had a station wagon (msybe a pickup?) women would match until they went into labor. They'd be taken to the truck, the baby would be delivered as the truck moved along.
When the next birth occurred, shootings minutes, sometimes hours, mother and baby would be kicked out of the truck to make room.
Do, ladies, it could be a lot worse.
John Henry
Spanish Military Finds Dead Bodies And Seniors ‘Completely Abandoned’ In Care Homes.
But unlike the evil United States, Spain has universal health care guaranteed by the Spanish constitution. So all is good.
No word on whether or not they were allowed their emotional support chickens or whatever.
No word on whether or not they were allowed their emotional support chickens or whatever.
They probably aren't allowing pangolins these days.
My children were born back in the day ~50 years ago when husbands/fathers were excluded from the delivery room. We spent our time in waiting rooms waiting for an attendant to come tell us whether it was a boy or a girl. We were so primitive that sonograms hadn't yet been employed to let us know in advance. The only fathers who were present when their child was born were those who'd started for the delivery room too late and the kid popped out in the backseat of the car.
Alternative headline:
Splooge stooges no longer allowed in delivery rooms
My daughter was born in a hospital setting with a midwife attending, along with me and my mother-in-law. My son was born at home with two midwives, me and my mom attending.
I wouldn't have missed it for the world!
Inga
Remember. If you and I — and Fauci — are wrong then ... we will look silly but we won’t have done anything to kill thousands.
If the others are wrong ... they tried to stop efforts to save thousands of people, perhaps millions.
This aside from their sneering at the deaths of the old and infirm.
That economic contraction is no big deal. Nobody will die from poverty ya conditions. That never happens anywhere.
Heads some people pretend to win. Tails everybody loses.
“ The Babylon Bee is in top form ...”
If by top form you mean distinctly displaying its form. That material is terrible. Thanks for reminding me why I loathe the BB.
Our daughter is facing this exact situation of her husband not being in the delivery room. My first grandson is due within the next 2 weeks. She and I talked about this earlier, and I reminded her that not all military wives have their husbands around for the birth either. Since she's a military brat, she understood this, although my husband was around for her birth.
A woman needs a manlike a fish needs a bicycle..... except....
Birkel
You are the one who ignores economic risks. A few weeks off with bridge financing won’t be remotely destructive as tens of millions sick at the same time.
By the way I only read the NYT when I can skim and find the article is based entirely on unnamed sources within (or formerly within) the Trump administration. That is the obvious gold standard of reporting.
I think the supposed tradeoff between economic health and public health is bullshit too, and that they are completely interconnected in ways people favoring one or the other at the expense of the other overlook. At the same time, besides all those people who have lost wages, fallen deeper into debt and lost jobs and businesses, we just burdened our children and theirs and probably theirs with a massive 2nd or 3rd mortgage on our recently revved up economy. As is typical of congressional action, you can bet that at least half the spending is misbegotten, and some other significant portion of every dollar that was wisely spent will go to graft. We needed to shut our borders, and since we tarried we probably needed some sort of lockdown in many places. As a result we needed to collectively come through for those whose businesses we were in effect shutting down: a proper exercise of collective action, except done at the very inefficient and corrupt highest level of govt, most distant from the people who need help. So it's OK to point out that damn, this shit got expensive fast.
But women are not hardest hit by this situation: their husbands are home to help with the dishes.
If by top form you mean distinctly displaying its form. That material is terrible. Thanks for reminding me why I loathe the BB.
Confirmation that our hostess has no sense of humor. Zip. Nada.
Daskol
We haven’t spent the $2T yet. If we can contain the virus somewhat, and get a sustainable restart we won’t spend it all, and what we spend will be well spent.
The real cost is not a few weeks lost production. It is chaos and disruption. That is is far more likely if we do too little than if we do it too much, with temporary financing to prevent liquidation and foreclosures.
Those BB headlines are great because they are very close to what is really being put out.
Hypotheticals mean never having to say you were wrong.
It's 6 trillion.
Chicken feed.
Neither planned parenthood nor planned parent.
"Thanks for reminding me why I loathe the BB."
Which, mea culpa, mea culpa, makes me more likely to smile at lame BB material.
But I would agree that something like this is much funnier:
"A NYT headline I took literally and seriously: "Some Pregnant Women in New York City Will Have to Deliver Babies Alone.""
The Babylon Bee attacks the wrong sacred cows.
SNL is worthy of lots of posts.
De gustibus non est disputandum.
"Some Pregnant Women in New York City Will Have to Deliver Babies Alone."
Lucky for them they're not in New Jersey. Murphy has decreed that breweries cannot even deliver beer (either alone or in groups, one assumes) until further notice.
"It is what it is", quoth Murph the Smurf.
Separately, everyone should keep the following in mind before reading material from The Babylon Bee: "That's Not Funny."
My public service announcement of the day.
If by top form you mean distinctly displaying its form. That material is terrible. Thanks for reminding me why I loathe the BB.
Don't have a cow, the doula's stuck in traffic!
Seriously, all the garbage, disinformation and outright lies the likes of the NYT, WaPo, New Yorker put out and you find something to loathe about the Babylon Bee? That's hilarious!!!
Iman: S'matter man, you can't read? That's Not Funny!. This time with emphasis.
The tide turned somewhere between my birth (1968) and my sister's (1972). My father was not allowed in the delivery room with me while he was with my sister. I think my mom would have liked to have had him there with me. The doctor (my mother's family GP who was excellent but had the bedside manner of Lewis Black, by all accounts) was a little frustrated at how slowly things were progressing and decided to help the process along with a large pair of forceps. I was born with the imprint on one cheek which took weeks to disappear. I think Dad would have had something to say about that at the time.
But it's OK if some pregnant women in NYC have their abortions alone.
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