March 25, 2020

"In California, Gov. Gavin Newsom labeled construction an 'essential service.' New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo did the same..."

"... listing construction alongside child care, grocery stores, and hospitals. While some construction work easily passes this test, including repairs and maintenance of road, water, and transit infrastructure, what’s so essential about that building going up by my house? Developers, contractors, and labor unions have offered a handful of reasons that construction ought to continue through the coronavirus shutdown, a combination of blue-collar bravura, engineering needs, hygiene logic, and societal necessity. Mostly, the economic expediency of everyone involved....  If you abandoned a project halfway, materials like insulation and exposed wiring degrade in the elements....  'There’s a sense that a 100-year-old building will deteriorate but continue to perform its job,' said Ehren Gresehover, a structural engineer in New York. 'But when you start opening things up, start demo’ing a little slab, you might unbrace a column, and that column has temporary shoring, or perhaps it’s only temporary braced, and that’s less stable.' What’s safe for a weekend might not be safe for several months unattended.'... Developers also take on a construction loan... meaning the bank can come for everything you’ve got if you default.... Powerful construction unions, contractors, and developers thus far seem to agree that job sites are not likely to be virus incubators in the same way that white-collar offices are...."

From "Why There’s So Much Construction Still Happening/Cities have shut down, but cranes are still in the sky" (Slate).

167 comments:

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

Pot shops have been open all along: deemed essential by Gruesome Newsome. Like liquor stores. Keep the proles medicated.

Sebastian said...

"Developers also take on a construction loan... meaning the bank can come for everything you’ve got if you default"

Ha, that's it!

So any business that has loans to keep it going and can go down to default with a shutdown should be deemed essential.

Considering the snowball effects of shutdowns, the construction guys have a point.

Keep seniors, sick people over 50, and anyone with respiratory trouble out of the. way, but keep building and working.

Oso Negro said...

Here in Galveston, we declared a general quarantine as of last night and for the first time in my 32 years around here, ordered tourists off the island. But still, city workers were painting crosswalks on the streets yesterday, and a road construction fellow drove his backhoe up next to my neighbor's mulberry tree to lean out and pick berries without leaving his cab. The Home Depot is still full of Mexican contractors, who are apparently immune to the virus.

narciso said...

They tried to shut down gun stores thats ill advised, the media is more virally stupid than the virus itself.

Fernandistein said...

It was rather distressing to see how easy it was to turn the US into a police state, where people are denounced to authorities for playing golf, etc., so I'm glad they're easing up on the cowering-in-place and social-cowering edicts.

David Begley said...

“Powerful construction unions, contractors, and developers thus far seem to agree that job sites are not likely to be virus incubators in the same way that white-collar offices are...."

The implication from the Slate writer being that public health is in jeopardy because of this decision. BS.

The real lesson here is that it is foolish to shutdown an entire state’s economy. The wildly irresponsible predictions by both Governors about millions of infections was perhaps the worst public official statement I have ever seen. Why does all of Utica need to be shut down if NYC is the hotspot?

Shouting Thomas said...

I was never in favor of the shutdown.

I thought (and continue to think) that the shutdown is more damaging than the disease.

So, yeah, keep the construction going.

narciso said...

surprise

tcrosse said...

So retired law professor is a strict constructionist.

Jamie said...

I've been wondering when the disgruntlement would get loud enough to hear. It would always have been preferable, IMO, to close down only such work as required people to be in close(ish) contact, such as in closed offices with recirculated air that might or might not (probably not) be adequately filtered. But landscaping? Surely not. Construction? In most cases, unnecessary (confined spaces could be a different matter). And even in these, transportation to the jobsite could properly be modified.

The problem, I think, was how to do it fast and with as little appearance of inequity as possible. So - ALL restaurants and bars, not just the ones where people are cheek-by-jowl all the time. ALL "inessential" businesses, not just the indoor ones. I'd imagine that Phase 1 of reentry will be an explicit acknowledgement that all businesses are not alike, and some can reopen immediately with no significant change to their procedures. (Here in TX, pool services, landscaping, yard care, etc. haven't missed a beat, and besides malls, it appears - correct me if I'm wrong, other Texas dwellers - that retail stores have been allowed to decide on their own whether to stay open.)

narciso said...

they need to fire more journalists

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

At least some of our local construction workers are unhappy about being forced to continue to work. At best there are mixed views about the wisdom of this among the actual construction workers.

Linda said...

Just curious - I might have missed it on your site - is your deck construction project complete? If not, are they still working or are they waiting to complete it when the “safer at home” is over?

Fernandistein said...

Corona Contruction is gonna clean up. Their construction sites, that is.

Bill Crawford said...

My son-in-law works in construction in southern California. I'm glad he can continue to work and feed his family.

narciso said...

not accidental

exhelodrvr1 said...

It's not PC to target just the most likely groups, so we'll target everyone. We've seen that time and again over the past 30 years, and it is very damaging, probably most of all to those "most likely groups."

Steve Schainost said...

Construction work is not salaried. No work, no pay.

Browndog said...

Blogger Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

At least some of our local construction workers are unhappy about being forced to continue to work. At best there are mixed views about the wisdom of this among the actual construction workers


1. I don't believe you.

2. Why don't they quit?

AllenS said...

Every business, and every worker is important. Get everyone back to work now!

Browndog said...

Certain phases of construction can sit, certain phases cannot.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Browndog said...
2. Why don't they quit?

Steve Schainost said...
Construction work is not salaried. No work, no pay.


And no one gives a fuck what you believe.

Derek Kite said...

Heh. Another divide opens up; those whose jobs are in fact essential, and those whose aren't.

A hint. If the economy was truly shut down, we would already see hungry people roving the streets looking for arugula fed journalists to eat.

Unknown said...

Our HomeDepot went to "100 people max" in the store a few days ago. Lines, not long, to get in at times. Employees busy wiping with bleach and can't help you.

So less crowded but a similar shopping experience.

-XC

ngtrains said...

Costco posts they will not accept returns of TP, paper towels wipes or water

narciso said...

They are kind of stringy, not much nutrition.

Michael said...

ARM
Pop us a link supporting your assertion. Until then I think you made that up.

Francisco D said...

Our HomeDepot went to "100 people max" in the store a few days ago.

If you go to stores in the middle of the day, you won't encounter those hassles. Of course, you won't encounter a fair amount of merchandise you wanted to purchase either. I am looking for gardening stuff at HD, so it's not a problem.

Grocery stores have "senior hours" where only seniors and vulnerable populations can shop for an hour before the store opens. Around here they line up to get their "essential" supplies. Although I am a senior, it is the last place I want to be. The parking lots alone are a terror, much less the grocery aisles.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Jamie said: 'd imagine that Phase 1 of reentry will be an explicit acknowledgement that all businesses are not alike, and some can reopen immediately with no significant change to their procedures

It is hard to say an "industry" is or is not essential when there are so many facets of that particular industry.

Building a new house right now...starting from scratch is probably not essential because you can start later. But if you are in the middle of building, stopping will doom the entire project and create even more economic chaos when this is over.

Plumbing has many facets that can be considered crucial/essential or not. Need that new sink installed in your kitchen now? Or your Jacuzzi tub put in today?. Not likely.

The septic or the plumbing in your apartment building is, backed up and you have literal crap spilling out onto your floors...um...probably an essential thing to get fixed. Hard to shelter in place when you are knee deep in it.

Water being sort of important ya know. We have been busy driving around..WORKING, ordering supplies which a truck brings***, going to the hardware store for a little odd part we don't ordinarily stock but is "essential" to the project. All to keep people in their homes and keep their animals watered so they don't die. AND so you don't die either since those animals eventually end up on your table. Pretty essential.

Don't get me started about our small town restaurant that at best serves 20 to 30 people in an ENTIRE DAY. Nope shut them down and kill their business because NYC. LA or SF are cesspits jammed with people.

*** If you GOT it a truck BROUGHT it! Where do you think the TP in your store comes from?

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Your claim is that construction workers who have to commute into NYC and work under crowded conditions on high rise sites could not reasonably think that this is a risk to their health. Good luck with that claim.

Apparently you are determined to go through life fat, drunk and stupid.

I Callahan said...

Your claim is that construction workers who have to commute into NYC and work under crowded conditions on high rise sites could not reasonably think that this is a risk to their health. Good luck with that claim.

No one is saying there are no risks. But they work in construction sites, for God's sake. Risk is what they do.

Instead of trying to think for them, how about we ask them if they'd rather sit at home with no pay, or take some chances and work? I'll bet the majority would rather do the latter.

JAORE said...

Union business are, by certain definitions, essential. You know, like essential for getting votes and donations.

Apparently the virus can not exist on the buttered side of the bread.

But put me down as on the side of we are WAY over reacting to the virus. And we are seeing how easily we give up freedoms.

bagoh20 said...

"Pot shops have been open all along: deemed essential by Gruesome Newsome."

Probably one of the main transmission methods, if not THE main one. Friends share a pipe or joint, essentially all touching lips and hands together repeatedly in a tight circle sharing the same air and taking it deep into the lungs. Then, they do it again with different friends later, and so on and so on, and then take it home to the family with kisses and hugs all around. The act of sharing a joint or a pipe is as perfect a transmission method as could ever be devised. And, it's not just kids. Lots of boomers are doing the same thing, and those who do it, usually do it daily over and over. Everyone I told this too said the same thing. "I never thought of that"? Really?

Annie C. said...

The Mayor of Frisco, a town just northwest of mine, has stated that "Every business is essential."

He's taken a few hits for it from the media, but the people like it.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Again, my point was that some construction workers do not see this as a great idea and are mad with Andrew Cuomo for making them work while others idle safely at home (in their eyes). They have something of a point. They did sign up for some risks, getting this virus was not one of them.

bagoh20 said...

I think lots of transmission methods are being ignored for others that are less likely. Working a construction site or most other jobs with simple precautions are way down the list. Touching things, and not realizing it, during the rest of your day is probably much more likely a source.

narciso said...

top people

Sebastian said...

ex: "It's not PC to target just the most likely groups, so we'll target everyone."

Exactly, ex.

Rigorously enforced quarantine of the risk groups wouldn't be nice, wouldn't be "fair." Therefore, let's devastate the whole country.

Drago said...

Browndog (to ARM): "1. I don't believe you.
2. Why don't they quit?"

There has indeed been a Great Awakening on the part of Althousians as to the degree to which ARM gleefully misrepresents reality.

It is quite encouraging.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

bagoh20 said...
I think lots of transmission methods are being ignored for others that are less likely. Working a construction site or most other jobs with simple precautions are way down the list.


Not if you are working with a lot of infected people. It has been estimated that 10% of NYC residents may have the virus.


Touching things, and not realizing it, during the rest of your day is probably much more likely a source.

If you are staying at home, living with family who are not infected, your risk is indistinguishable from zero.

Drago said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Sebastian said...

"Every business is essential."

Good line for Trump.

Does anyone in the WH read this blog?

Pretty sure someone keeps tabs on Instapundit and Powerline. Checking the pulse of the deplorables here might also help.

TreeJoe said...

This is probably the best time in the history of society to do large-scale road projects.

Construction, if properly managed, is one of the easiest environments to operate in with face masks, gloves, and 6 foot social distancing overall.

The problem here is that there is both a combination of essential and non-essential construction, but its so project specific it's problematic for central government to dictate. It's almost as if providing local control has benefits to more effectively administrate....

...

On a related note: the construction loan point is totally valid. But then, almost every shut down business is going to have debts that can't be paid if they aren't earning income.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Drago you are sad fucking moron, licking Trump's ass at every stop. Grow up.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

ARM Your claim is that construction workers who have to commute into NYC and work under crowded conditions on high rise sites could not reasonably think that this is a risk to their health.

First. I think there is construction in places other than NYC.

I'm sure that the workers DO recognize this is a danger and a risk the their health. In fact...being a construction worker already IS a risk to their health and very dangerous. Every day there is danger and the chance of injury and/or death. Over time people in manual labor face debilitating health issues because their work is HARD and DANGEROUS.

They have to weigh the consequences of this every single damned day. Do I go to work and earn money so I and my family can eat and survive? So we don't lose our home and end up on the streets? Or do I not? If I get hurt, how long can I continue to work with the injury?

Not everyone has the luxury of extended unemployment benefits, sheltered by a Union, or is sitting on a bag of money with a pension or other safety net. Some people have to make a hard choice.

Work or Die.

I don't know what you have done for a living, but I get the sense that it wasn't any of the above.

Drago said...

ARM: "Drago you are sad fucking moron, licking Trump's ass at every stop."

LOL

You've got what you've always had: nothing.

Michael said...

ARM
“Again, my point was that some construction workers do not see this as a great idea and are mad with Andrew Cuomo for making them work while others idle safely at home (in their eyes)”

Shoot us a link or are these anonymous sources?

Bill, Republic of Texas said...

I can't believe this but I've got to agree with ARM. Don't get me wrong, I think he is lying about knowing or even talking to construction workers. But is this case he is fake but accurate.

Some construction workers are notorious for being lazy and grifting. Give them half a chance to sit on their ass and collect unemployment and they'll jump at it.

The no pay/no eat workers are not happy with the shutdown.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Again, my point was that some construction workers do not see this as a great idea and are mad with Andrew Cuomo for making them work while others idle safely at home (in their eyes).

Who is MAKING them work? They can always quit. Stay home.

They aren't slaves. (yet)

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Dust Bunny Queen said...
First. I think there is construction in places other than NYC.


No one said there wasn't. The post was about California and NY.

The irony here is that I am representing the views of hard-core Republicans who live in my district and hate Andrew Cuomo - who is doing an outstanding job in my view.


Harsh Pencil said...

We need to start acknowledging that every type of interaction we have has a different probability of virus transmission. Working outside on a construction project almost certainly has a very low rate of transmission compared to working very closely with someone indoors, or standing next to them on a crowded subway. So ban only those activities with a very high risk/reward ratio.

Howard said...

Outdoor construction is probably one of the easiest businesses to run while keeping safe social distancing. The guys are already used to wearing PPE everyday anyway.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Dust Bunny Queen said...
Who is MAKING them work?


Large corporations with massive financial resources need an immediate bail-out from their paid stooges in congress but working people have to survive with no income? Where would they get another job in this economy?

Drago said...

ARM: "The irony here is that I am representing the views of hard-core Republicans who live in my district and hate Andrew Cuomo - who is doing an outstanding job in my view."

Was Andrew Cuomo "outstanding" in 2015 when he refused to replenish the NY State stockpile of ventilators (NY State was 16,000 short at the time) for $550M or so and instead launched another BS "green" solar initiative for over $700M that yielded nothing of value?

How "outstanding" was that? Gee, do you think those 16,000+ ventilators might have come in handy right about now?

Howard said...

Harsh pencil, exactly. My guess is the economic task force is working with the health and safety people to determine when and how and in what phase for re-energizing the economy.

Meade said...

"Outdoor construction is probably one of the easiest businesses to run while keeping safe social distancing. The guys are already used to wearing PPE everyday anyway."

Landscape gardening as well. Gloves, eye protection, even Tyvek coveralls are used routinely.

Bob Smith said...

The Dems are trying to get the blue collar guys back.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Bill, Republic of Texas said...
Some construction workers are notorious for being lazy and grifting. Give them half a chance to sit on their ass and collect unemployment and they'll jump at it.


That is some classist shit right there. There couldn't possibly be any lazy corporate lawyers idling at home on full salary.

Dave Begley said...

Jim Cramer of CNBC made this point the other day and I hope everyone in the Althouse community considers it.

Cramer said that when this is over - and it will be - we don't want Walmart, Home Depot, Lowe's and Target as the only retailers left standing. Small local businesses don't have the capital reserves and access to capital that the big companies do.

I'm thinking of a local garden center here in Omaha owned by a friend. He's competed successfully against Home Depot and the others for years. I will be buying lots of plants from him this year. I urge you to do likewise with all the small local businesses in your area and across a wide variety of industries e.g. the local wine shop over Target.

I've been to Madison before and it really is a lovely town. You know what businesses to patronize.

wendybar said...

And the idiot Nevada Governor banned using chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine for coronavirus patients after the president mentioned the two drugs during a press briefing. TDS is real, and it is going to kill people now.

Browndog said...

Some construction workers are notorious for being lazy and grifting. Give them half a chance to sit on their ass and collect unemployment and they'll jump at it.

Fair point...in union shops.

Most, especially in the north, are just now coming off unemployment from a long winter. At least they were-

Michael said...

Report from NY construction workers is that they are delighted to be able to keep working and earning while many are laid off. They state they don’t know a single fellow worker who is not grateful to have a job and are delighted their work has not been shut down. They are tipping their hard hats to Cuomo. As one worker noted, anyone wanting to stay home in this environment can do so and will be replaced in hours for someone eager for the high pay.

Drago said...

The really "outstanding job" Cuomo did, from a lefty perspective, is that in 2015 and 2016 Andrew Cuomo decided to simpky put in further triage rules to adapt to the planned understocking of required ventilators while simultaneously threatening gun manufacturers and telling conservatives they weren't welcome in NY.

Well, after listing those facts out, I do see where someone like ARM would think that was "outstanding".

Dave Begley said...

Meade:

When you and Althouse visit Omaha, I'll take you to this garden center. You will love it! This family built it with their own two hands.

Howard said...

I'm with Drago on this. The Boys want to work I'm sure there's a few that don't and some that complain about it but the vast majority wants work.

Browndog said...

wendybar said...

And the idiot Nevada Governor banned using chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine for coronavirus patients after the president mentioned the two drugs during a press briefing. TDS is real, and it is going to kill people now.


Yea,this is beyond absurd.

Obviously he read the headlines in the "news" about the fish tank lady.

Meade said...

Dave Begley said...
Meade:
When you and Althouse visit Omaha

👍

Drago said...

Howard: "I'm with Drago on this. The Boys want to work I'm sure there's a few that don't and some that complain about it but the vast majority wants work."

Well, I cant speak to the entire nation but I can speak directly to some in CA, TX and GA.

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Drago said...
Was Andrew Cuomo "outstanding"


So Drago you think Andrew Cuomo is wrong about everything and he shouldn't be making construction workers work through the plague?


Howard said...

The best heavy underground contractor I ever directed in the field with was all Union shop. The union hate is a sign that the super elite moneybags have got you conned into pulling your fellow crabs back into the pot


Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Howard said...
and some that complain about it


Which was my point, especially in NYC, where they have particular reasons for concern.

Michael said...

ARM
“Large corporations with massive financial resources need an immediate bail-out from their paid stooges in congress but working people have to survive with no income? “
Alas, the bill to provide immediate help to working people was held up to get some funding for the arts and to ensure that corporate boards were appropriately woke. And those laid off by the big bad corporations will just have to fuck themselves for choosing to work for a “large corporation.” Because large. And corporation.

Oso Negro said...

Dear AReasonableMan - Can you please control your ad hominem attacks? One of the delights of this blog is a reasonably intelligent commentariat. Must you hoot and fling poo when agitated?

Spiros said...

The Republicans are finally going to get everything they wanted: the growing corporatization of America and the destruction of small business. In the future, every restaurant will be a Taco Bell.

Michael K said...

This is the beginning of the revival of the economy. Watch the next round of "essential" services.

I didn't read all the comments after I saw ARM going apeshit about corporations.

Howard said...

Sure ARM, it's a free country no one is forcing them to work. what is happening is that the workers are having opportunities to make decisions on whether or not to continue working and to overcome the obstacles needed to do it safely. Believe it or not but the guys that work in that kind of industry enjoy going the extra mile. I mean you could get all Joseph Campbell here and everything on what drives these boys with mustaches to do what they do

Drago said...

ARM: "So Drago you think Andrew Cuomo is wrong about everything and he shouldn't be making construction workers work through the plague?"

This question of yours perfectly illustrates why there has been a Great Awakening amongst the Althouse commentariat as to your transparent serial dishonesty and disingenuousness.

Lets start with an easy one for you: was Cuomo "outstanding" in refusing to fund the minimal number of required ventilators and other pandemic equipment identified by his own freakin" advisors as necessary?

Francisco D said...

The Republicans are finally going to get everything they wanted: the growing corporatization of America and the destruction of small business. In the future, every restaurant will be a Taco Bell.

Don't be an idiot Spiros.

Small business/restaurant owners are far more likely to be Republicans than corporate bureaucrats.

The DNC is well aware.

Michael K said...

Spiros is another lefty. The Republicans are the party of small business now and the Democrats are the party of big corporations with Gender Studies grads running HR.

Rick said...

On the way to work yesterday I passed a tree cutting crew (MD)).

I don't think the PTB care who goes to work. They want bars, restaurants, and other entertainments closed.

Wince said...

"Maybe they'll smoke cigars! Wouldn't that be a bonus?"

Howard said...

Oso Negro and Doc Mike can't handle a single opponent who occasionally and quite lightly gets a little nasty. Are we not men?

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Drago, as usual you didn't answer a straightforward question. Is Andrew Cuomo right or wrong to make construction workers work in NYC under cramped conditions, with a cramped commute at a time when the infection rate could be as high as 10%. Right or wrong?

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Michael said...
And those laid off by the big bad corporations will just have to fuck themselves for choosing to work for a “large corporation.”


Ever heard of unemployment benefits?

Howard said...

so basically both sides think that the other side is going to gain some sort of radical terrifying political advantage over the CoronaCrisis. Building more tribalism. Divided we stand United who knows?

narciso said...

if all you rely on in, is blank pages, then you get the wrong information,

Howard said...

The blank page is the one with the most truth on it. Remember better than nothing is a high standard

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Howard said...
Oso Negro and Doc Mike can't handle a single opponent who occasionally and quite lightly gets a little nasty. Are we not men?


No. They are a bunch of pansies who get their knickers in a twist every time someone makes a statement inconsistent with the Great Pumpkin's thoughts of the day.

Every fucking time I make a statement that is contrary to the Thoughts of the Great Pumpkin I get called a liar. Grow a fucking pair, losers.

Drago said...

ARM: "Drago, as usual you didn't answer a straightforward question. Is Andrew Cuomo right or wrong to make construction workers work in NYC under cramped conditions, with a cramped commute at a time when the infection rate could be as high as 10%. Right or wrong?"

You dont ask straightforward questions. You lard them up with dishonest presumptions and you will often twist them and demand someone prove a negative. Thats probably your most common and transparent tactic.

In this case you've larded your fake question up with all kinds of assumptions.

What are "cramped" construction conditions?
Define "cramped commute".

Once we clear away your adolescent loaded BS we might get to a "straightforward" question.

Oso Negro said...

@ Howard - I can get as nasty as anyone here, and curse fluently. But there are other blogs for that.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Meade Landscape gardening as well. Gloves, eye protection, even Tyvek coveralls are used routinely.

Not a landscape gardener, but I know a guy who advises me locally. When I'm working outside spraying, I use those precautions(except the Tyvek coveralls) and a chemical respirator mask with goggles when using various chemicals on the ground, plants, overhead in the orchard. I look like a space alien when I'm out there. I don't know if it is 100% safe or stops all the chemicals, but better than nothin'

We are dealing with fire blight on the apples and pears right now. They haven't bloomed yet, but soon! Ferti*loame. Aphids on the cherry and plum trees as usual. Fungal growth on some of the trees and roses as well due to the extra wet winters and warm wet spring last year. Then there is the pre-emergents. We hired a company to do that this year because it is a BIG area and my powered sprayer for that pooped out.

I can't wait to get out of this house and work OUTSIDE!

(delete this if too much off topic. I won't be hurt)

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Curious George said...
obviously a lie


And you are a self-important moron who knows nothing about the local conditions where I live. And, I agree with Cuomo.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Drago you again failed to answer the question. You are a total pussy.

Drago said...

ARM: "Every fucking time I make a statement that is contrary to the Thoughts of the Great Pumpkin I get called a liar."

Actually, its only when you are lying or are purposely mischaracterizing events that you are rightly calked out as a liar.

I am quite certain there are therapists in NY who would be happy to work with you on that via Zoom Sessions.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Drago said...
You dont ask straightforward questions. You lard them up with dishonest presumptions and you will often twist them and demand someone prove a negative. Thats probably your most common and transparent tactic.

In this case you've larded your fake question up with all kinds of assumptions.

What are "cramped" construction conditions?
Define "cramped commute".

Once we clear away your adolescent loaded BS we might get to a "straightforward" question.


Look at all this blather. Real men don't talk like this. Pussies do.

Drago said...

ARM: "Drago you again failed to answer the question. You are a total pussy."

LOL

Oh, clearly. You keep thinking that tiger, if it helps you get thru the rough patches.

Spiros said...

Trump's tax bill raised taxes on some middle-class households in order to (partially) finance massive reductions in the corporate tax rate. His No. 1 priority was corporations. He hates small businesses. AND this chump blew up the deficit. So much for the "party of fiscal responsibility."

Drago said...

ARM: "Look at all this blather. Real men don't talk like this. Pussies do."

LOLOLOLOLOL

Do "real men" care about "cramped conditions" and "cramped commutes"?

Tell us more about "real men" ARM. Sounds like you know alot about them....from those Cosmo articles you read!

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

The Republicans are finally going to get everything they wanted: the growing corporatization of America and the destruction of small business.

What is this crap? Small business owners are one of the groups most supportive of the GOP which is why Nancy's bill was an attempt to strangle them during the lockdown.

Marc said...

Am out in half an hour to make an expedition to Walmart. Will try to notice if much has changed from last week-- there are only five items on my list, one of them being one of the few things that wasn't on the commercial temple's shelves last time.

I'm interested to see the speculation that there might be some 'return to normalcy' beginning soon, at least incrementally, and of course Mr Trump was going on about Easter yesterday or whenever that was. I have a hard time imagining that Governor Brown here in Oregon, e.g., is going to take any step toward 'normal' anytime soon considering that she only two days ago decreed the current quarantine regime: I don't think politicians (sotto voce, 'progressive Democrat politicians') much enjoy reversing themselves because circumstances. But who knows.

Annie C. said...

Howard said...
Oso Negro and Doc Mike can't handle a single opponent who occasionally and quite lightly gets a little nasty. Are we not men?

---

I'm sorry Howard, but this has to be the most idiotic comment on this blog ever.

Drago said...

Mike: "What is this crap? Small business owners are one of the groups most supportive of the GOP which is why Nancy's bill was an attempt to strangle them during the lockdown."

This is just another dem/lefty Switch-O Change-O Double-Reverse-Jedi-Mind-Trickeration attempt to invert reality for political purposes.

Whats amazing is that they think it really works as a tactic.

Howard to his credit will often kind if alert his teammates to reality. But they wont listen. To them, every republican is still a monopoly-man hanging out at the countryclub.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Curious George said...
Post up the links.


Not that I give a fuck what you think, but the complaints were posted on a private Facebook group associated with our local school district. Through that group I get to hear the opinions of a large swathe of people in my district. But, given that as many as 10% of NYC residents may be infected, you would have to be a fucking moron not to recognize that some people would be unhappy about having to go into work there, especially when most white collar workers a safely ensconced at home. It is a class issue. That you cannot recognize this tells me that you are classist.

Drago said...

ARM: "Your continued failure to answer the question tells us all what kind of man you are."

Sure it does!

Why it says so right there in that article from Woman's Day!

Drago said...

ARM: "It is a class issue."

The Marxism is never that far below the surface, is it?

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Drago, still waiting for a clear yes or no answer. Not a complicated question.

Did Andrew Cuomo do the right thing regarding NYC construction?

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Yes Drago, Marx was the only social commentator ever to take up the role of class in society. God you are stupid.

Drago said...

ARM: "Tell us again about exponential growth. It was fascinating last time."

He can't.

Mathematics is a tool of the Patriarchy as well as inherently racist.

We know this because liberal elites have explained it time and again.

Drago said...

ARM: "Yes Drago, Marx was the only social commentator ever to take up the role of class in society. God you are stupid."

Tsk tsk tsk

The US has far too much economic mobility which is why the Frankfurt School jerkwads and leftists long ago decided intersectionalism was the way to advance the marxist project in the US. You cant even keep up with that! #Sad!

Drago said...

This thread is becoming quite reminiscent of a thread some years back where ARM basically had an angry spittle-flecked meltdown because there were precisely zero "buyers" for his dishonest "wares".

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Again, literally no one gives a fuck what you think. No one. If you had a wife she wouldn't give a fuck. If you had children they wouldn't give a fuck. If your parents hadn't disowned you they wouldn't give a fuck. If your neighbors didn't think you were a creepy fuck, they wouldn't give a fuck. If Morgan Fairchild knew who you were and could be bothered to care, she wouldn't give a fuck. No one gives a fuck what you think. No one.

Bay Area Guy said...

Construction is an essential service. Good job, for once, Gavin.

I would say MOST private sector jobs are essential service, too. We need to get healthy folks back to work.

Browndog said...

Blogger Drago said...

This thread is becoming quite reminiscent of a thread some years back where ARM basically had an angry spittle-flecked meltdown because there were precisely zero "buyers" for his dishonest "wares".


Indeed.

He might want to flatten the curve on his f-bomb use, but then again I kinda like it. Hoping to get 3 or 4 in one sentence and a bit more creativity.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Drago, still waiting for an answer. If you fail to answer you go down as one of the biggest losers ever to completely, total, without redemption, embarrass themselves on this blog. Your choice - biggest loser or answer the question.

Drago said...

Btw, has anyone seen my monocle?

I need it so I can find my spats, top hat and walking cane so that I may take an exciting journey upon the public transport, colloquially referred to as "the train", in order to properly experience a "cramped commute"...whatever that is.

Who's with me?!

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Bay Area Guy said...

Construction is an essential service. Good job, for once, Gavin.


And Andrew.

Tina Trent said...

In Chicago, there have been two incidents of police being threatened with infection by some nut they were arresting. In one case, a judge already let the guy walk -- despite aggravated assault of a police officer.

Obviously, we value different people's lives very differently. Where I live, that judge would be the one facing consequences, not the cops out on the streets. I used to believe I could live anywhere and live out my political life online. A crisis like this is an interesting reminder that we are all making choices about the type of community we live in.

narciso said...

So cuomo and diblasio, having done nothing for their city, chatter on like nagin or bllanco or yulin or rosello.

Shouting Thomas said...

ARM, your "reasonable man" posture has gone to hell.

It was always BS.

In reality, you're an emotionally abusive goofball with a pronounced tendency to fly off the handle at the slightest provocation.

And, apparently you have absolutely nothing to do to fill your time.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Shouting Thomas said...
And, apparently you have absolutely nothing to do to fill your time.


Why are you here, exactly?

Drago said...

ARM: "Drago, still waiting for an answer. If you fail to answer you go down as one of the biggest losers ever to completely, total, without redemption, embarrass themselves on this blog. Your choice - biggest loser or answer the question."

Awesome!

I see where you are going with this and I like it!

We are going to need a couple of things first. We'll have to agree on stakes, judges, criteria and time limits. I mean, if we are going to make this a real contest we need to understand the lay of the "pitch", if you know what I mean.

I mean, its going to be a stiff competition and we want to make sure all the contestants have a fair shot at this.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Curious George said...
Apparently you do. And maybe Morgan.


Wrong on two counts, but I guess you are used to that feeling.

The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...

“At least some of our local construction workers are unhappy about being forced to continue to work. At best there are mixed views about the wisdom of this among the actual construction workers.”

Witnessed in Seattle last week: Systems contractor’s safety guy finds out that one of the general contractor’s laborers was on the site for two days after contact with his corona-positive sister. Huge f-bombing shouting match ensues. Everyone sent home.

Now, I’ve never met a union safety guy who wasn’t just itching to shut down work on the slightest pretext (and I say that as someone who was a union organizer in my misty youth) so who knows how the actual workers felt about it.

Drago said...

Perhaps ARM will work with us to identify all the "players" who are in the mix for (admittedly, this is going to be difficult to fit on a single plaque, much less a name tag): "One of the biggest losers ever to completely, total, without redemption, embarrass themselves on this blog"

Quick questions: should every word of the title be capitalized, or just the the first word? Do we include a period at the end, or just go with bullet form?

I was also wondering how else other contestants might be identified. Nominations? Group votes?

Shouting Thomas said...

Why are you here, exactly?

You're not particularly observant.

I'm here for about an hour in the morning and, maybe, a few minutes around lunch.

You're always here. Sunup to sundown. You have absolutely nothing to do.

Here's an experiment. Count my posts on any particular day, then count yours.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Drago, still waiting for an answer. Was Cuomo correct to ask construction workers to work in NYC, given the risk of getting the virus? Yes or no?

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...
Witnessed in Seattle last week: Systems contractor’s safety guy finds out that one of the general contractor’s laborers was on the site for two days after contact with his corona-positive sister. Huge f-bombing shouting match ensues. Everyone sent home.


In the hot-spots it is the same problem for everyone - how much risk to take. Even if you are relatively young and healthy you are likely to have family members who are not. The family in NJ where four members died is in the minds of many.

Drago said...

What is the best font to use for "One of the biggest losers ever to completely, total, without redemption, embarrass themselves on this blog" if its on a T-shirt?

Wait a minute! I didn't even think about coffee mugs!

The possibilities really are endless, even during a time of "cramped commutes" and "cramped conditions".

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Banning is the recourse for losers who can't argue without calling their opponent a liar. If you want to call people liars expect to get similar treatment.

Unknown said...

Wow, this is fun watching the usual suspects F$#@ up a thread. Boring...

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Still waiting for that answer.

Drago said...

RMc: "Time to ban him. Now."

I would really prefer ARM not be banned before we complete not just the pre-season and regular season, but the Championship for "One of the biggest losers ever to completely, total, without redemption, embarrass themselves on this blog".

We haven't even figured out the ground rules yet!

Drago said...

You know what's most amusing?

ARM was in such a spittle-flecked rage banging away on his now broken laptop keyboard that his syntax and coherence, already in serious question, went The Full Biden!

"One of the biggest losers ever to completely, total, without redemption, embarrass themselves on this blog"

I mean, you'd have to have a heart of stone not to point and laugh at him.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

I would also prefer that ARM not be banned. Otherwise he would miss out on hearing Drago's answer.

Meade said...

@Drago, ARM: Please try to quit each other. Thanks.

Drago said...

ARM: "I would also prefer that ARM not be banned. Otherwise he would miss out on hearing Drago's answer."

Thank you ARM, but I would caution against losing focus on the upcoming championship.

Personally, I'm worried about where I'll be practicing and with what facilities, what with all the "cramped commuting" and "cramped conditions" mucking about.

But I will not be deterred! Champions never grouse.

Drago said...

Meade: "@Drago, ARM: Please try to quit each other. Thanks."

Where have you been?

We need someone to setup the brackets.

MadTownGuy said...

Dave Begley said...
"Jim Cramer of CNBC made this point the other day and I hope everyone in the Althouse community considers it.

Cramer said that when this is over - and it will be - we don't want Walmart, Home Depot, Lowe's and Target as the only retailers left standing. Small local businesses don't have the capital reserves and access to capital that the big companies do.
"

I fear it could go farther: nationalization of all industries. Despite the efforts of so-called "democratic socialists" to slap a happy face sticker over Karl Marx's face, the ultimate goal is state control of everything. For our own good, of course.

Rosalyn C. said...

I sort of perused the thread. Am I to understand that the problem isn't with the danger of contagion on construction sites but in the commuting? Please explain why public transportation is still cramped when most of the city is shut down?

FullMoon said...

Again, my point was that some construction workers do not see this as a great idea and are mad


Good one. Being around construction workers my entire life, I guarantee you that you will always find "some" are mad about something.

And, generally speaking, whenever "some" feel one way, some feel the opposite.

Always reminiscent of Obama's "There are those who may say.."

So, some say, or some feel, is always true but never important.

FullMoon said...

Drago, still waiting for an answer. Was Cuomo correct to ask construction workers to work in NYC, given the risk of getting the virus? Yes or no?

There are those who may say yes.


Some may say Cuomo is realizing he over reacted..

Perhaps many might disagree..

Michael said...

This is such a great opportunity for the mini-Mussolinis among us - de Blasio, Newsome, Inslee - to indulge their lust for power and pick and choose among victims and beneficiaries. Irresistable!

AllenS said...

I went to the local grocery store this morning, and there were more empty shelves than Saturday. The deli was full of food, and I had to buy 2 lbs of Market Fresh potato(e) salad and 1 lb of Dixie coleslaw, and fruit and vegetables. Also, bought some nice looking steaks on sale.

I needed the potato(e) salad and coleslaw because tomorrow I'm going to fry some Wisconsin winter caught northern pike from the St Croix river.

I Callahan said...

The Republicans are finally going to get everything they wanted: the growing corporatization of America and the destruction of small business. In the future, every restaurant will be a Taco Bell.

I don't know a single Republican who wants this.

MadisonMan said...

I wonder why the Buses are still running.

Birkel said...

My opinion:
Construction work is essential. Roads need to be repaired. Bridges need to be repaired. Roads need to be widened. Subway tracks need to be inspected and repaired. And all of this should happen while ridership, traffic, etc. are so far below normal levels. In fact, I believe the states should be hiring more construction workers (temporarily waive union rules where they otherwise apply) so that more construction can take place. That will help individuals and the economy. That will have people prepared for more economic activity when this ends.

On Cuomo:
An electronic clock is right once a day. He was wrong in 2015 not to prepare for an emergency as his own people advised him to do. He appeared foolish denying his mistake during his press conference today. Innovation and entrepreneurship are his best hopes to avoid bad medical outcomes.

P.S.
The use of the word "make" and its derivatives by ARM is pathetic. It's gross. I know the goal is total control and the power to make, but you have to win the shooting war before that happens.

Leland said...

Construction? What until they find out how vital building of parts for other major industries is. You can't do much construction when your cranes, bulldozers, and concrete trucks don't have spare parts. And even if you do crank up those lines, what are the water systems going to do without new valves, fasteners, and pumps? And it is not just water and sewage, but the other industry needs valves, fasteners, and pumps. Those things don't get manufactured, packaged, and shipped by people working from home.

Birkel said...

Agree completely, Leland.

Those industries are essential, individual ingenuity will only get us so far without new parts.

Dust Bunny Queen said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Dust Bunny Queen said...

One thing that this "stop everything from working" mode has done is to expose who is really essential to the running of the country, keeping the economy going and who is not really needed. Who we can do without for a while. Who is dead weight. Who is not pulling their weight. Surprise...who we need are not many of the so called and self appointed elite.

Needed are mostly blue collar jobs without which everything grinds to a halt. In no particular order:
Truck Drivers
Mechanics
Maintenance people
Construction
Oil and gas workers.
Plumbers
Retail workers/clerks to stock and sell the things you need
Farmers and farm workers.
Ranchers
Utility workers. Water/Sewer/Electric/Gas
People who clean up. Garbage collection. Janitorial.
Doctors
Nurses
Police...some.
Manufacturers of needed supplies like medicine and many other items. Yes even TP!

What we REALLY need is an honest and responsible Media. The ones we have now should be removed (to put it nicely) because they are a big part of the problem. A bunch of dishonest and evil baying hyenas.

Who we don't need right now. Maybe later. Maybe never.
Actors
Politicians -most of them.
Lobbyists
Lawyers
Government paper pushers
Bureaucrats and administrative big wigs
College administrators
Human resources and Diversity department heads.

I bet you can think of more.

Cornona Virus, making us reassess our priorities.

JAORE said...

" ARM basically had an angry spittle-flecked meltdown because there were precisely zero "buyers" for his dishonest "wares".

Blogger Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Again, literally no one gives a fuck what you think. No one. If you had a wife she wouldn't give a fuck. If you had children they wouldn't give a fuck. If your parents hadn't disowned you they wouldn't give a fuck. If your neighbors didn't think you were a creepy fuck, they wouldn't give a fuck. If Morgan Fairchild knew who you were and could be bothered to care, she wouldn't give a fuck. No one gives a fuck what you think. No one."

Well, all things equal I think this fully qualifies as "an angry spittle-flecked meltdown" Sheesh.

I've taken to scrolling up through the comments from the bottom. When I get to the point where ARM is the author of every other post I note it. Then I head for the beginning to read other comments. It gives me the advantage of knowing that is the point to stop.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Not the slightest bit angry. There should be more respect for different opinions on this forum, there isn't but there should be. Repeatedly calling someone a liar for deviating from the Great Pumpkin's nonsense opens you up to a direct attack. This seems fair to me. The liberals who comment here are all very nice people, but maybe a bit too nice sometimes.

Marc said...

My expedition to and from Walmart went well. There were perhaps a few more people on the bus than were riding last week; not many more, though. Still no toilet paper when I got there, and no ramen. Pft.

Birkel said...

And why would a troll ever get angry?
That idiot is getting what it wants.

n.n said...

Political congruence? Maybe. It mitigates the progress and liberal license correlated with idle hands and minds in sanctuary cities.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Birkel, I was commenting here long before cretins like you arrived. I was here when the right wingers on this site still had enough self respect to call out dim-witted trolls like you. You are the troll Birkel. You will always be the troll, that is all you have.

Birkel said...

Before the first Instapundit link?
Cool.
You were here before Althouse, I'd bet.

Birkel said...

"Dim witted" is such a bright witted comment.
HINT: I am smarter than you.

Unknown said...

Crews were working on the streets where I ride my bike the last few days great will have smoother roads Those streets were not that bad though

pacwest said...

"Construction" covers a lot of area. From sole proprietor to massive building projects. There are a lot of projects ongoing. Someone took out a construction loan on a house. They need to finish the job so they can get a lesser rate mortgage on completion. Larger projects can have penalties for not meeting completion dates. Real estate developers can have projects started that need to meet time frames to at least break even. On and on. There are going to be a lot of lawsuits.

And I think that even if there is a good outcome to the pandemic, demand will be slow to return.

virgil xenophon said...

AllenS/

"...because tomorrow I'm going to fry some Wisconson caught winter northern pike from the St. Croix river."

BASTARD!

Nichevo said...


Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...
Your claim is that construction workers who have to commute into NYC and work under crowded conditions on high rise sites could not reasonably think that this is a risk to their health. Good luck with that claim.


Shorter ARM: I never have to prove anything I say and you can't make me.

If you're not angry, and you are dishing out this much profanity and abuse (not just in the quote above) to all comers, then I don't know, I have no alternative explanation, unless it's that you think that's better than reasonable forms of argument. For you it may be so.

I am happy to see that, after I've laid off you, you continue to behave beastly to everyone else. So it wasn't just me.

For the record, public transit ridership is down in the city ("free fall" according to the MTA; Metro-North ridership down up to 90%!!! See "streetsblog" reporting MTA numbers), most construction guys have their own vehicles or could get them, job site parking could be had for them on an expedited basis, and conditions on a job site are a lot of things but typically cramped is not the first word that comes to mind. Plus PPE is a way of life.

I'd love to know the last time you picked up a hammer, wrench or torch. Can you even sweat copper pipe? You don't have to answer, I know you can't.

Unknown said...

Its good to be king.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Nichevo said...
you continue to behave beastly


Pansies talk like this.


I'd love to know the last time you picked up a hammer

The irony here is that my grandfather was a builder, father an engineer and I design and build my own equipment, whereas you are just a pansy.

Nichevo said...

So no, you can't.

Dude, it's not like I have to convince anybody, least of all *you.* What you are can be seen from space.