January 24, 2020

"The clamor is growing for Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. to take an assertive stance in presiding over the impeachment trial of President Trump."

"... Roberts took the appropriate step, after midnight on the first day of the trial, of admonishing the House managers and the president’s lawyers to tone down the rhetoric.... Is Roberts supposed to instruct them to get back in their seats, or else? Come on. This is the U.S. Senate, not a kindergarten class. The chief justice is not there to take attendance... Charles P. Pierce of Esquire [wants Roberts to]  'Be the umpire' [and accuse the President's lawyers of lying].... This seems like the slipperiest of slopes. The chief justice is going to interrupt the trial to question the veracity of arguments being made by the president’s lawyers? Where would this stop? If it started, wouldn’t the chief justice open himself — and, by extension, the court — to claims, in this trial or, heaven forbid, the next, that he is putting his thumb on the scale for one side or the other? There is a difference between enforcing standards of decorum and opining on matters of substance...."

Writes Ruth Marcus in "A more assertive John Roberts would be a bad idea" (WaPo).

Pierce's idea is obviously horrible, but that has to do with intruding on the role of the Senators, who must decide things like who is lying. It would be easy to enforce the rules of decorum — the Senate's own rules about keeping quiet and remaining seated — without switching to making statements about which of the speakers are lying! Yet Marcus visualizes Roberts tumbling down "the slipperiest of slopes." That's one of the worst "slippery slope" arguments I have ever seen.

For background on the behavior of the Senators, see "Sen. Rand Paul works on crossword puzzle, paper airplane during impeachment trial" (Courier-Journal). The article is not just about Rand Paul (who also held up a piece of paper with "S.O.S." written on it). We also hear about Sen. Mark Warner, D-Va., apparently sleeping, and Elizabeth Warren playing some sort of "game on paper." Some Senators are "reading non-impeachment materials." (Wouldn't you bring a book?) And then there's the open laughing, such as when "Adam Schiff said he’d only speak for 10 minutes." And when one of the lesser prosecutors got up to speak, it was, apparently, a cue for Senators to "bolt[] for the cloak rooms, where their phones are stored." Some Senators have taken to standing rather than the required sitting. Yawning is seen.

Should Roberts do something about this behavior? You make the call:

Should Roberts do something about this behavior?
 
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126 comments:

rehajm said...

What is really desired is a higher authority to perpetuate their sham to their desired result. Roberts is the convenient option but they’re pining for a Hawaiian judge.

Darrell said...

Give Roberts a big stick.

gilbar said...

That's one of the slipperiest "slippery slope" arguments I have ever seen.
fify!

ALWAYS ALLITERATE ANYTHING AVAILABLE

traditionalguy said...

The MSM's crime dujour yesterday was Marsha Blackburn reading a book. They in effect accused her of being too retarded to multi task reading a book and listening at the same time. Now that thought is retarded. When a reporter sees the brain power to analyze and retain information from multiple sources as a rare feat, then you need to fire the dumb reporter.

Marsha was imitating the stable genius. And her response was good: the book she was reading was about the same subject as the 6 times repeated Schift Show, and all mothers have learned to multi-multi task all the time.

Ann Althouse said...

The Constitution says: "The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments. When sitting for that Purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside..."

Roberts has the role to preside over the Senate. You can stress "preside" and maximize how much power you see in that concept, or you can stress "Senate" and its "sole Power to try." Does the Senate define itself (and if so does it make rules that it must follow, must it act as a body, or is each Senator empowered to vote on the rules and to follow the rules to the extent he/she deems right)?

Even if you lean toward saying the Senate defines itself, at some point Roberts needs to protect his own role.

stlcdr said...

How is this ‘impeachment trial’ any different from any other gathering of senators to make a decision? Is this more or less important than any other lawmaking that directly affects the lives of 100s of millions of Americans?

Matt Sablan said...

If the senators aren't taking it seriously, I don't see why I should. Let them behave as they will.

Browndog said...

Roberts chided the President's defense team for the actions of Nadler.

What until MSM has to air the full throated defense of the President. I predict some simply won't, at least not to the same extent as the communist traitors.

I think they will constantly break in and "fact check" what Trump's lawyers are saying. No way they will allow all this "false information" on their networks.

Case in point: George Stephanopoulos Caught on Camera Telling ABC Studio to Cut-Off Trump Defense Attorney…

Narayanan said...

Have they given Robbie a gavel?
He should walk around and lay about with it on the miscreants.

Narayanan said...

McConnell could bring in a few Pelotons

Birches said...

Aren't they just trying to stay awake? I don't blame them... Is the camera on Roberts at all? He probably has the hardest job of all.

Annie C. said...

Can Pelosi give Roberts her enormous gavel? That would help him be more serious about the whole presiding thing.

MayBee said...

The slippery slope- he may call out Adam Schiff's lying! We can't have that!

Michael K said...

I think the Constitution also says something about "cruel and unusual punishment." The few seconds I have seen of Schiff should qualify.

Mary E. Glynn said...
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Mary E. Glynn said...
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rhhardin said...

Roberts is there because Pence would have a conflict of interest, not because you need a judge.

Mary E. Glynn said...
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Annie C. said...

If this impeachment were important, don't you think she would have stayed home, on the job? Isn't Nancy's daughter one of the political kids that it is being revealed are put on foreign company's payrolls after their parents approve big foreign aid packages to that country, as Joe Biden did to Ukraine?

Shouldn't we know what these political kids are doing to earn their foreign pay, laundered through their parents' aid to the country? There's a lot more besides Hunter doing it in this global economy...

Yes, and no matter how many people trumpet this, the media and congress are determined to smother it with a pillow.

Browndog said...

If we get a virus from Asia over here, and it starts killing Americans outside of the coasts? You can be damn sure securing the border will be EVERYONE's priority.

Not everyone.

The commies and their media propagandists will use it as a clear example of why we need Medicare for all.

Shouting Thomas said...

A couple of guys writing op-eds is not a "clamor."

Mary E. Glynn said...
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Tom T. said...

Pierce and Marcus reflect a division on the left, between those who hold out hope that some sort of intervention (like Roberts) can still get them a conviction somehow, and those who accept that impeachment is going to fail and want to preserve excuses for why it failed. It's similar to those who wanted to call witnesses and come testimony in the House and those who wanted to hand it off right away.

Mary E. Glynn said...
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donald said...

My buddy Stan and the rest of the Portland idiots are literally dancing at the “wall of facts” Schiff is burying the Trumpster with.

On Wednesday Schiff actually used the video clip of Trump at a rally saying “hey Russia...find the emails”. That clip. He has come back to that repeatedly over the last several months. He is actually saying that that is when Clinton’s emails were “hacked”. Jimmy Dore called him a psychopath. My buddy Houston in Cali says he’s a sociopath. All I know is he makes my skin crawl and if he doesn’t make your skin crawl, you gotta problem.

Browndog said...

When people start dying, the commies and media propagandists start learning to shut their mouths and stop calling attention to themselves.

Never heard of "never let a crisis go to waste"?

tim maguire said...

Democrats are exploring every angle to stack the deck. Sure, House managers are introducing demonstrable falsehoods into the record, but Trump's attorneys are the problem for...I"m not sure. But they're the problem, I am sure of that.

As for the Senators not giving this farce every ounce of their energy, they're only human. Everyone on both sides knows this is BS and they have had it foisted upon them (Democrat and Republican Senators alike did not ask for this crap), isn't it enough that their bodies are there for when the camera scans the room?

DB said...

The articles of impeachment are inane. It's wrong to treat them seriously; I'd sleep or read or work a crossword puzzle.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Disgraceful:

Saudi Arabia murdered a journalist and hacked Jeff Bezos. Trump sent them U.S. troops.

tim in vermont said...

ARM spots another squirrel on the feeder.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Aunty Trump deleted her treasonous posts. She does have some shame. A small step forward.

tim in vermont said...

"We have to take note of Melanie Zanona’s illuminating Politico article “Schiff may have mischaracterized Parnas evidence, documents show.” Subhead (understated): “Unredacted material shows he may have referred [Ed.: strongly suggests he referred would be more like it] to the wrong ‘Mr. Z.’”

Calling out Shiff on his lies would be a full time job.

tim in vermont said...

Same as with ARM.

Shouting Thomas said...

Jesus, but you're a dumb cunt, ARM.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Put your posts back up Drago.

Shouting Thomas said...

You learned absolutely nothing from that shithead bit with me about how I make my living, did you jerk?

ARM, your self-assurance is stupid.

You're just a dumb cunt.

You're so fucking stupid and clueless that you have no idea how fucking stupid and clueless you are.

Shouting Thomas said...

Why didn't that interchange with me shame you into a little self-reflection, you dumb cunt?

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Exactly what do you have your knickers in a twist about ST? You think it is good that the Trump administration is giving blow jobs to the Saudis?

tim in vermont said...

Only deleted because I had been dragged O/T. I have to admit that you are pretty good at trolling people. I am sure that Kashoggi and his buddy bin Laden are having a good time in Hell together though.

Shouting Thomas said...

Hatred of stupid shits like you, ARM.

You're not reasonable, I doubt if anybody loves you, and you make huge assumptions based on nothing, you dumb cunt.

You have no fucking idea how stupid you are. Really, you're just a fucking idiot.

Would you like me to recite the absolutely stupid claims you made about how I make a living, cunt?

Shouting Thomas said...

Now, you fucking dumb cunt, why didn't shitting all over yourself in that exchange with me lower your self-esteem in line with reality?

tim in vermont said...

https://twitter.com/pspoole/status/1050804806997151745

Defending his honor seems more “treasonous” to me.

Todd said...

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Disgraceful:

Saudi Arabia murdered a journalist and hacked Jeff Bezos. Trump sent them U.S. troops.

1/24/20, 7:18 AM


Just for the purpose of gauging the appropriate amount of outrage, is this better or worse than if they had been given pallets of cash?

tim in vermont said...

Remember when ARM used to prattle on about our support for the Saudis despite the fact that the 911 hihackers were mostly Saudis? Here he goes now pretending that Kashoggi was some kind of journalistic saint, and not a propaganda plant in the WaPo because he thinks it hurts Trump.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Aunty Trump is obviously a sockpuppet - no one is that dumb. The only interesting question is whose sockpuppet.

tim in vermont said...

To me Kashoggi’s killing was part of a squabble about which we will never have half the facts. Bezos got involved by hiring a terrorist.

tim in vermont said...

So that picture is fake? The news stories are fake? You will have to provide some evidence of that.

tim in vermont said...

Oh, I forgot, ARM doesn’t deal in evidence, only authority.

Whatever, my posts stand until you prove them wrong with more than your opinion or the opinion of whoever is running the troll farm you work for. Prove them factually wrong and I will retract them.

BADuBois said...

Charles Pierce was a hack when he wrote for The Boston Globe. Glad to see things haven't changed much.

John Borell said...

At the risk of being called out for "civility bullshit" can some commenters here act a little more civil? I'm not pointing to any particular commenter so you have to decide if this applies to you.

Make things bad enough and she's going to turn comments off.

The topic is whether Chief Justice Robers should flex his "preside" role. I say no, the whole thing is a farce, let them do what they want.

Shouting Thomas said...

Now, ARM, you're fucking stupid as a rock, but let me try to explain this to you...

You leaped to the conclusion that knowing one small thing about me explained everything about me.

That's your m.o.

That's how you operate in the political arena, too. It is your mindset.

Try to digest this, dummy. You're an idiot. Your lofty opinion of yourself is a symptom of the greater overall idiocy you suffer from.

Take some time off to understand the depth of your stupidity, ARM. Study your idiocy. Try to learn from it.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Now, now, ST. You heard the nice man. Maybe it's time to tone things down a little.

Michael K said...

You think it is good that the Trump administration is giving blow jobs to the Saudis?

It's kind of interesting to see the hard left choosing to support Iran and attack the Saudis in the Islamic civil war in the Middle East.

Both are primitives that should be anathema to the left what with killing gays, women in burkhas, etc. Why choose the Iranians and attack the Saudis? " I doubt ARM could tell the difference between Sunni and Shia. I assume it is Obama worship but there may be another reason.

Hate America ? Iran does.

And the left hates fracking, which has freed us from any dependence on Saudi oil. Hmmm.

AllenS said...

"The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments"

I read that as the House members should keep their mouths shut and watch the proceedings.

Phidippus said...

"Clamoring". It's what they do.

Static Ping said...

Pierce simply wants to win. This is all a power fantasy. If he could call upon space aliens to come down and vaporize the nasty Republicans, he would. If he had such faith, he would call upon God to smite the sinners with lightning. Alas, he is stuck with John Roberts. You work with what you got.

With some political writers, it is difficult to distinguish them from fan fiction.

JAORE said...

Pierce's idea is obviously horrible...

That's why it got published in the rag Esquire.

Leland said...

Again, we established that impeachment is political. Therefore, the House Managers are just making political speeches. Besides, there are few things in life you can do for 8 hours day, three days in a row, that wouldn't bore you to the point of wanting to do something else.

ga6 said...

Justice Roberts should take this free time to work on his retirement letter.

Amadeus 48 said...


" [Charles P.] Pierce's idea is obviously horrible..."

That is a multi-use phrase that is appropriate for every occasion.

Lyle Smith said...

He needs to go all in.

Unknown said...

A fake sham trial deserves fake sham attention.

JAORE said...

Republicans pounce. Democrats clamor.

Lyle Smith said...

Roberts should schlong the Senate. It is his constitutional right.

stevew said...

"Pierce simply wants to win."

Standard leftist, Democrat, Progressive play. When they lose or fear losing they want to change the rules of the game. Trump wins the election while getting fewer popular votes than Hillary so we must eliminate the Electoral College.

Same thing here.

Chuck said...

Right; it’s not Roberts’ function. Pointing out when the President’s lawyers are lying — like Pat Cipollone and his howler about Republicans being barred from an impeachment inquiry SCIF — should rightly be the job of bloggers in midwestern swing states.

elkh1 said...

When the leftists know they have lost, they accuse their opponents of lying.

Bob Boyd said...

This is kind of like when a kid tries to organize and perform a play for the adults. She takes it all very seriously, but her sibs and the neighbor kids, who she needs for the cast, keep goofing off and goofing up and laughing at her when she gets mad. Pretty soon she's yelling, "Mom! Tell them they have to do it right."

Duty of Inquiry said...

Blogger Narayanan said...

Have they given Robbie a gavel?
He should walk around and lay about with it on the miscreants.

Or a ruler to use on their knuckles
He's already wearing nine tenths of a habit

Duty of Inquiry

Gunner said...

Michael K, SJWs support Iran because they think their gay, atheist Persian friend in California speaks for their homeland better than the mullahs do. If Saudi Arabia had a large, lefty ex-pat community here too, it might be different.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

So now we are denying that the Saudis are objectively awful and the enemy of freedom everywhere? I think that is a step too far for most patriots, and most Christians.

Otto said...

All of a sudden Ann brings up the constitution. Did she do that during the house proceedings? NO! This isn't a constitutional impeachment case and should be treated as a purely political act.So all talk about constitutionality in the senate is a Democrat political move. Vote and finish it as soon as possible. Ann is a shill for the Democrats.

narayanan said...

Trump wins the election while getting fewer popular votes than Hillary so we must eliminate the Electoral College.
___________
Hearing that all the time.

Out of curiosity has anyone done the exercise of : if every state allocated Electors proportional to each State popular vote result what happens to final tally for Trump v Clinton

narayanan said...

https://www.270towin.com/alternative-electoral-college-allocation-methods/?year=2016

have fun - Trump wins in all but one scenario

tim in vermont said...

"So now we are denying that the Saudis are objectively awful and the enemy of freedom everywhere?”

No, I was just criticizing a particular Saudi, Kashoggi, who posed with the founders of Al Qaeda with a rocket launcher. The one you choose to present as some kind of hero. Personally, I support fracking, which makes us far less beholden to the Saudis, and as far as I am concerned, the sooner we are disentangle from that mess, the better. Do you support fracking and Keystone? Or do you support our dependence on the Saudis and the Russians for our energy lifeline? It seems to me that the Democrats have all committed to putting us back on the path of energy dependence.

And don’t say you support other forms, that. besides nuclear, are nothing more than fairy tales that force us right back into the tender arms of Putin and the Saudis.

Ganderson said...

Charles Pierce was the guy who once asserted that Mary Joe Kopechne would have appreciated all the legislation that Senator Fat Boy got passed, had she lived.

narayanan said...

Blogger Ann Althouse said...

Even if you lean toward saying the Senate defines itself, at some point Roberts needs to protect his own role.
__________++++++++++++++

He could begin by bringing potted plant to decorate his magisterial dais/podium/facade

tim in vermont said...

“Fracking is a threat to Russian national interests” - Putin

rcocean said...

Amazing two liberal/leftists arguing about someone other than who is the most Left. My first suspicions about Mona Charon came when she appeared with Ruth Marcus, her BFF from childhood on C-SPAN. They got to talking about how "Horrible" it was to go to a Lilly white school with zero diversity. And how wonderful it was that NOW the school had people of all races from all over the globe.

I think just after this, she called Pat Buchanan - who started her career - a Nazi.

rcocean said...

Roberts supposedly scolded everyone after Collins (R-RINO) sent him a note on how "Distressed" she was. Mom Collins didn't like all those harsh words. So, Dad Roberts stepped in.

tim in vermont said...

Maybe ARM wants a regime change war in Saudi Arabia? Maybe he wants it to be engulfed into the Russian sphere of influence by Iranian proxies? Maybe this shit isn’t so simple as getting all worked up about the death of a terrorist mouthpiece?

rcocean said...

If Pierce was a conservative, everyone would say he had shit for brains and was an Ideologue. But because he's a left-wing, everyone acts like he's worth reading.

rcocean said...

Michelle Goldberg is the same. No conservative Michelle Goldberg exists because someone that stupid couldn't get a job as a conservative. Only Liberal dumb-shits get hired by the NYT/Wapo.

rcocean said...

Boring fucks want to derail conversation and go off-topic into Saudi Arabia. What else is new?

Denton Romans said...

That's one of the slipperiest "slippery slope" arguments I have ever seen.

Not a very fair summation of Marcus’ point. All she said about the decorum was that this isn’t kindergarten. Her slippery slope argument was about Roberts getting involved in truth/lies debate, which is what she said would lead to even worse things. Regardless, most of us can agree that would be a bad idea.

Michael K said...

So now we are denying that the Saudis are objectively awful and the enemy of freedom everywhere? I think that is a step too far for most patriots, and most Christians.

So now, ARM hates all Saudis and thinks "Christians" would agree. I said it was interesting.

Saudi and Iran and all Arabs and Pakistanis, except the ones who built the atomic bombs, are primitives. Maybe you saw the photo on facebook this week of a skip loader in Pakistan picking up the corpses of all the dogs they had killed.

ARM hates a lot. Mostly the Democrats' enemies.

NorthOfTheOneOhOne said...

I say let 'em be. I've always wished that Congress was more like the British House of Commons, who hoot and holler when the other side says something they don't like. CSPAN used to show PM's question time, it was worth watching just for the snarky, pointed questioning.

Browndog said...

When the libs and the media all tell that Saudi Arabia is suddenly our most lethal enemy, I tend to believe the opposite is true.

I tend to believe the salafists are being pushed out, and the crown prince is instituting reforms that will bring them into compatibility with other freer, economically diverse nations, Israel being one.

Michael said...

Roberts should do whatever will get this nonsense over with the fastest.

Angle-Dyne, Servant of Ugliness said...

rcocean: If Pierce was a conservative, everyone would say he had shit for brains and was an Ideologue. But because he's a left-wing, everyone acts like he's worth reading.

...

Michelle Goldberg is the same. No conservative Michelle Goldberg exists because someone that stupid couldn't get a job as a conservative. Only Liberal dumb-shits get hired by the NYT/Wapo.


Well, the bolded sentence above is not *technically* true - people as stupid as Pierce and Goldberg get jobs as "conservatives" at NYT/Wapo. (I'd say Jen Rubin is as least as stupid as Goldberg, and crazier). But that doesn't mean that the next sentence isn't true, because the people who get jobs as conservatives at NYT/Wapo are all dumbshit liberals.

Kevin said...

Journ-o-list directions for the impeachment trial:

1. Talk about what a wonderful job Schiff is doing.
2. Keep repeating that whatever the President's lawyers said is "lying".
3. Hope you're not next to lose your job due to industry contraction.

Bruce Hayden said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Otto said...

" The Clamor is rising" Only on 72nd street. Precipitous drop west of the Hudson river.

Bruce Hayden said...


“Right; it’s not Roberts’ function. Pointing out when the President’s lawyers are lying — like Pat Cipollone and his howler about Republicans being barred from an impeachment inquiry SCIF — should rightly be the job of bloggers in midwestern swing states.”

Republican House members were denied admission to the hearings. Most of us saw pictures of them milling around outside outside Schifty’s basement star chamber inquiry room, having been denied admission. I am pretty sure that the minority leader and whip were there in the pictures. Denying that fact is the howler. The Democrats (and apparently Chuck and ARM) are talking about that Republican HPSCI members were not allowed in the room. Don’t remember any instances of that happening. And it wasn’t due to lack of security clearances, that these non HPSCI Republican Members were denied access, since Minority Leader McCarthy, as one of the Gang of Eight, has just as high a clearance as Schifty, and likely higher than many on the committee. This, as usual, is the usual Democrats lying, then pinning their lying on the Republicans, by adding or removing words from what the Republicans actually said, then having the MSM condemn the Republicans in unison for lying, because the Dem rephrasing of the Republican’s actual words was false. The Dems and MSM impliedly added the qualifier “HPSCI Member” to the statement that Republicans were denied access to the room, making their modified statement false, when the original statement by the Trump attorney was true - a group of non HPSCI Republicans, including their House leadership, were denied admission.

But they do this indirection and quasi lying all the time. For example, mention was made above that the Saudis killed a journalists. Not really. The Saudis killed a Muslim Brotherhood spokesman and propagandist who got op eds into American MSM publications published on occasion. This was during a time when the new Saudi King and crown Prince MBS were consolidating power, against the faction of princes and billionaires who supported Islamic terrorism around the world, the Muslim Brotherhood, and its offshoots, like al Quaeda and the Taliban. You see the occasional comment that Saudi Arabia funded the hijacking of those four planes on 9/11/01 that triggered our invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan. That was funded by the faction (including OBL’s family) that was being purged from the Saudi government and neutered. If Jamal Khashoggi had been in Saudi Arabia, instead of Turkey, at the time, he might have just been incarcerated at the Ritz Carlton instead with the rest of the faction supporting religious terrorism. Who had more blood on their hands, the Saudi government, or the Muslim Brotherhood and its progeny like al Quaeda, the Taliban, ISIS, etc? My bet is the latter, by far. (And never forget that Crooked Hillary’s protégée, Huma Abedelin’s immediate family publish a paper that has long acted as a MB supporter and mouthpiece, and has likely been funded by the recently ousted Saudi pro Islamic terrorism faction).

Mark said...

Should Roberts do something about this behavior?
Yes. He's presiding. He should preside like a trial judge and require decorum.


Well, to "preside like a trial judge" is two different things. They are not the same or complementary of each other in the impeachment sense.

In impeachment, the Senate is the trial judge. The CJ is the presider -- period. His role really is to do nothing more than sit there.

stevew said...

Who wants to bet that the major media will live stream, in its entirety, the impeachment defense presentation? Anyone?

TestTube said...

I can't believe we are almost 100 comments into this thread and no one has brought up this old chestnut:

A lawyer at a trial complains to the judge: "Your honor, one of the jurors is sleeping"!

The judge replies: "You put him to sleep; you wake him up"!

Howard said...

You have it exactly backwards Doctor Mike. The people of the middle East that you described are completely civilized socially and religiously. Us white people we are The primitives. Not that there's anything wrong with that. In fact we're basically primitive pagan illiterates up until a thousand years ago is a feature, not a bug. Primitives are more eglitarian which then spawned the modern enlightenment and industrial revolution was steeped in the Devine rights of peons which allowed for the growth and power of the middle class

Bruce Hayden said...

“Maybe ARM wants a regime change war in Saudi Arabia? Maybe he wants it to be engulfed into the Russian sphere of influence by Iranian proxies? Maybe this shit isn’t so simple as getting all worked up about the death of a terrorist mouthpiece?”

I think that regime change would, much more likely, result in rich Saudis supporting a lot more Islamic terrorism around the world, because that was the faction ousted by their new king and crown prince - the faction that financially supported the MB and its progeny like al Quaeda, the Taliban, and ISIS.

Browndog said...

His role really is to do nothing more than sit there.

Well, if he just sits there and "allows" Trump to be acquitted he'll be a white supremacist Russian asset engaged in a cover-up over night.

The entire Supreme Court will be compromised, and have no authority going forward.

stevew said...

"The CJ is the presider -- period. His role really is to do nothing more than sit there."

I'm not a lawyer, and certainly not a Constitutional scholar, but when I look up "preside" the definition indicates presiding is:

1: to exercise guidance, direction, or control
2a: to occupy the place of authority : act as president, chairman, or moderator
b: to occupy a position similar to that of a president or chairman

In the case of impeachment of the President the CJ would be guiding, directing, and controlling the process, presumably in accordance with the rules the Senate has established for the trial. Commenting, or ruling, on anything the House Managers or the President's Defense team says is out of bounds for Roberts.

Browndog said...

I see the democrats stepped on their dicks last night and brought Hunter Biden into the trial.

By claiming there was no reason to investigate Where's Hunter, The defense now have a direct path to call him as a witness.

They got too cute.

Claiming Hunter Biden has nothing to do with this trial is no longer valid by their schiffty standards.

narayanan said...

Blogger stevew said...

"The CJ is the presider -- period. His role really is to do nothing more than sit there."

In the case of impeachment of the President the CJ would be guiding, directing, and controlling the process, presumably in accordance with the rules the Senate has established for the trial.
___________++++++++++++
Q: can J's accomplish anything without their clerks?

narciso said...

Chuck , mary jo kopechne would be happy if she were alive' pierce lol.

Bruce Hayden said...

“It's kind of interesting to see the hard left choosing to support Iran and attack the Saudis in the Islamic civil war in the Middle East.

“Both are primitives that should be anathema to the left what with killing gays, women in burkhas, etc. Why choose the Iranians and attack the Saudis? " I doubt ARM could tell the difference between Sunni and Shia. I assume it is Obama worship but there may be another reason.”

Not sure exactly the source of the flip between Dem support of Sunni Saudi Arabia and Shi’a Iran. Crooked Hillary’s stint as Secretary of State showed a strong support of the Muslim Brotherhood (and, thus, their funders, the Saudis), with Clinton’s constant companion, Huma Abedelin’s immediate family long being supported by Saudi money in their paper (that she has written for) that is a propagandist for the Muslim Brotherhood. And hence all of the bloodshed and immigration driven chaos in Europe, that resulted from her Arab Spring. But why the swing to supporting Shiite Iran in Obama’s second term over Sunni Saudi Arabia that was supported in his first term. What isn’t clear is whether that was due to Clinton’s replacement, Lurch Kerry, or Obama’s constant companion, Iranophile Valerie Jarrett. In any case, Saudi Arabia has swung even closer to us, with their swing away from supporting terrorism, while significantly increasing their cooperation with Israel and a MB hating regime in Egypt, much of it through the personal diplomacy of Trump’s son in law, Jered Kushner, and esp;with his personal relationship with Saudi Crown Prince MBS. and, today, that maybe the answer - Trump and the US support (now) Islamic fighting Saudi Arabia over Terrorist funding and orchestrating Iran. OrangeManBad and TDS means that all right thinking people have to support his enemies, the Iranian mullahs and their government.

narciso said...

Because the kingdom under the prince is miving away from the legacy of the king, when he was gov of riyadh province.

Todd said...

Howard said...

You have it exactly backwards Doctor Mike. The people of the middle East that you described are completely civilized socially and religiously.

1/24/20, 10:24 AM


I guess that depends on what your definition of "civilized" is.

Would you agree that America is "more" civilized today than the middle east? If not, why?

Michael K said...

Not sure exactly the source of the flip between Dem support of Sunni Saudi Arabia and Shi’a Iran

Maybe it's just the Saudis getting friendly to Trump and family. You know:

"The friend of my enemy is my enemy."

Michael K said...

Howard needs to untangle that mishmash of a comment above. I lost track at the fourth or fifth non sequitur.

Static Ping said...

Chuck: Right; it’s not Roberts’ function. Pointing out when the President’s lawyers are lying — like Pat Cipollone and his howler about Republicans being barred from an impeachment inquiry SCIF — should rightly be the job of bloggers in midwestern swing states.

I'm not sure it would be possible for Roberts to take this role. You essentially would make him fact-checking-in-chief of the impeachment trial. To do this in real time would require Roberts to have full knowledge of the facts in this case, which would be a neat trick since their are disputes as to the facts and such knowledge would require Roberts to have, at minimum, top secret clearance, if not omniscience. He would probably need a crack staff of hundreds to do this in anything resembling real time. Furthermore, the faster the corrections need to come, the more likely there will be mistakes, more of false positives and omission. Every mistake would cause an uproar, especially when interrupting speakers. And then there is the matter that the jury, not the trial judge, decide on the facts. The judge's job is to be the expert on the law.

Of course, if your only concern is to play "gotcha" with Trump's lawyers, that's a significantly easier task, albeit one of a rank partisan, not a judge.

Do remember that the "fact checkers" we have in the media exist primarily to push narratives, just like the rest of the media. It's a way of acting like a partisan while accumulating undeserved gravitas.

Browndog said...

They got him this time!

ABC News just release secret audio of Trump ordering a hit on former amb. Yovanovitch.

Yancey Ward said...

Pierce's plea is the equivalent of running to the teacher to tattle-tale. I am surprised it is the female pundit, Marcus, that understands this.

Bruce Hayden said...

“Maybe it's just the Saudis getting friendly to Trump and family. You know:”

Except that the swing from supporting Saudi Arabia to supporting Iran seemed to have come partway through the Obama Administration, maybe four years before Trump was sworn into office.

Bruce Hayden said...

“You have it exactly backwards Doctor Mike. The people of the middle East that you described are completely civilized socially and religiously.”

Personally I don’t consider summary execution of homosexuals and adulterous women to be very civilized. You may disagree. But at least in this forum, I expect my views to attract more sympathy, that the opposite. Of course, most of the commenters at the NYT probably would disagree with me. Which is part of why sales pitches from that paper automatically go into my Junk file.

tim in vermont said...

You have to hand it to ARM, he got us all barking at the squirrel on the bird feeder. Of course, the ridiculousness of the idea that Roberts would sit their and call out Trump’s lawyers based on liberals interpretations of the facts makes it kind of beneath discussion. The WaPo gave Schiff four Pinocchios for some whopper already.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

I think the odds favor Aunty Trump being the sockpuppet of Drago - but I am open to other suggestions.

Marc said...

Mr Trump slammed the Democrats who can't seem to keep themselves from being monolithically pro-abortion at the #MarchforLife2020 earlier, and indulged in an allusion to his own troubles in the Senate. I haven't watched him the way so many here have but it seemed to me that he wasn't quite sure if he was doing a campaign rally or making an address on a state occasion.

Jim at said...

Though I'm not paying much attention to it, from what I gather? The Democrats are pretty much pissing all over themselves with their outlandish claims and actually hurting their cause.

Roberts should stay out of it. Continue to feed them rope.

Howard said...

Bruce and others have a "Andy Griffith Show" definition of civilization. Oppression, subjugation and genocide were perfected by all great civilizations. Our inalienable rights predates civilization.

Bob said...

If senators don't like the way Roberts presides over the trial, they can always ask the House to impeach him.

And if Roberts votes the "wrong" way in an abortion-rights case, the House might just oblige.

Greg the class traitor said...

Ann Althouse said...
The Constitution says: "The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments. When sitting for that Purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside..."

Roberts has the role to preside over the Senate. You can stress "preside" and maximize how much power you see in that concept, or you can stress "Senate" and its "sole Power to try." Does the Senate define itself (and if so does it make rules that it must follow, must it act as a body, or is each Senator empowered to vote on the rules and to follow the rules to the extent he/she deems right)?

Even if you lean toward saying the Senate defines itself, at some point Roberts needs to protect his own role.



That is a reasonable point. The first problem Roberts faces is that he's let the Left bully him twice: On ObamaCare, and on the Census Citizenship question. So he has to know that the more he does, the more he will be pushed to do more.

So if he doesn't want to be harassed constantly, he can't aggressively preside.

The second is "where to draw that line." A rule of parenting I learned many years back is "let the kids play." Are they seriously hurting themselves or each other? Are they hurting an unwilling target? Are they at risk of destroying things they can't afford to replace?

No?

Then let them play.

A Senator isn't seriously disrupting the hearings? Let the Senate / voters deal with it

Michael K said...

Howard is getting confused again,. We live in a civilization. It took work to get here.

Civilization is not the default state of society.

narciso said...

the world absent civilization is 'nasty brutish and short',

Ken B said...

You fell for the misdirection. Trump's lawyers are not lying. This discussion is an attempt to smuggle in the premise that they are.

If my reactions are anything to go by, this impeachment will seal Trump's landslide victory. It has taken the most absurd excesses of antitrumpism to a new level. I was a quasi never Trumper. And the Democrats have turned me so hard against them I am taken aback by it.

Ken B said...

I don’t believe in the clamor either.

Gk1 said...

Hilarious. I guess the irrefutable, MOUNTAIN OF EVIDENCE is not enough for the democrats and now they need the presiding SCJ to help even the odds? Is that what I am getting for them article? Sad!