January 2, 2020

Bernie Sanders raised $34.5 million in the fourth quarter, the most of any candidate so far.

NBC News reports.

Buttigieg raised $24.7, and Andrew Yang’s rasied more than $12.5 million.

We haven't heard from Biden and Warren yet. I'm especially interested in hearing what Warren was able to raise. If Bernie has far overshadowed her, it ought to cause those who want a solidly left-wing nominee to shift to Bernie.

Who are all these people giving to Bernie?
For the final three months of the year, Sanders donors most often listed their occupation as “teacher.” The five most common employers of people who contributed to the campaign were Amazon, Starbucks, Walmart, the U.S. Postal Service and Target. The senator routinely criticizes Amazon and Walmart for the pay and benefits they give workers.
ADDED: If it is true that Bernie and not Warren is the left-wing choice, why is that happening? I'll sketch out all the reasons I can think of off-hand and put them in a survey. I'm limiting you to one choice to make the results more interesting. Pick the strongest reason (not the most interesting reason!):

Why might left-leaning Democrats prefer Sanders to Warren. Pick the strongest answer.
 
pollcode.com free polls

212 comments:

1 – 200 of 212   Newer›   Newest»
tim maguire said...

The most common job is teacher, but none of the most common employers are schools?

Over the summer, I really thought Warren was the one to beat and the only issue for her is how long Bernie would hang on before giving his supporters to her. Now I’m back to Biden—his poll numbers are behaving like Trump’s—bouncing around 30%. No matter what happens, no matter what anyone else is doing, his numbers won’t budge. And except for the Warren/Sanders fans, he’ll get half the voters of every candidate who drops out.

gilbar said...

Our Beloved Professor Althouse said...
employers of people who contributed to the campaign were Amazon, Starbucks, Walmart... The senator routinely criticizes Amazon and Walmart for the pay and benefits they give workers.


Aren't you Sick of working for Walmart? Wouldn't you Rather be enjoying Funemployment? Vote for SOCIALISM! and you can Stop Working, and Live on the dole !!

gilbar said...

tim maguire said... The most common job is teacher, but none of the most common employers are schools?

I wondered about that too; BUT
most schools are small employers, lots of teachers, lots of schools
Walmart, Amazon are some of the biggest employers. some employees, ALL one Walmart

rehajm said...

It implies not just a fight between far left and farther left but between farther left and farther left. ELO sings Headed for a showdown...

This election is providing ample evidence money doesn’t buy elections. Steyer has cornered the market in local TV ads, Bloomberg will later on then the superdelegates will crush Bernie (again) and Liz.

peacelovewoodstock said...

Fake news. Trump's campaign raised $46 M in final quarter of 2019.



gilbar said...

peacelovewoodstock said... Trump's campaign raised $46 M in final quarter of 2019.

Get OUT OF HERE with, with your Facts, and Figures!
As Jo Biden said... "We (democrats) choose PRAVDA over facts"

David Begley said...

When I went to rallies for Dem candidates in 2019, nearly all of them promised more money for teachers. Big cheers.

Laslo Spatula said...

"...Amazon, Starbucks, Walmart, the U.S. Postal Service and Target...."

Incidentally, socialism would be a lot like living in those places 24/7, but with worse lighting and nothing on the shelves.

And no air-conditioning.

I am Laslo.

gilbar said...

Serious Question

Laslo? Has the girl with a ponytail, on a treadmill decided if/who she'll vote?
inquiring minds want to know

gilbar said...

i want to follow her; not politically, physically

mockturtle said...

The most of any Democrat candidate, you mean. Trump raised $46M in the same quarter according to the article.

Nancy said...

I am thrilled to think that 95 percent of the contributions are to candidates who won't be the nominee.

Ann Althouse said...

I'm reading just now that Trump raised $46M in the final quarter, so that puts the Bernie "blowout" in perspective, especially since Trump doesn't have to spend it to get the nomination.

Ann Althouse said...

"The most of any Democrat candidate, you mean. Trump raised $46M in the same quarter according to the article."

Yes, thanks for pointing that out.

rhhardin said...

If low-paying businesses voluntarily raise their wages, the jobs get gentrified. A higher quality worker moves in and displaces existing workers.

Or, if it's a higher minimum wage, they just lose their jobs and the jobs disappear.

The constant is that nobody can pay more than you're worth for long.

mockturtle said...

While I voted for the second option and believe that explains Sanders' popularity, I also strongly believe option one is a fact. Sanders wasn't just 'edged' out of the nomination, he was 'Hillary-ed'. California was just the icing on the cake.

Fernandistein said...

The senator routinely criticizes Amazon and Walmart for the pay and benefits they give workers.

The people who contributed to his campaign have more money than sense, so have at it!

Temujin said...

Bernie is the most authentically socialist of the candidates. Warren is just phony to her bones, and even though there are many who want to vote for her, she's too cringe inducing, both in her words and her body movements/facial expressions. There doesn't seem to be anything she does that is not preplanned and without authenticity.

Bernie is nuts. But he's real, down to his creaky bones. And if that's what the Dems want to put up for this election, it's be very fun. With perhaps a Corbyn-like result.

I wonder if the Dem hierarchy will allow it this year?

wendybar said...

Free stuff = votes from those who want the free stuff. (and don't understand economics) I couldn't pick any of the choices because they are both nuts isn't on there!!!

rehajm said...

rhhardin @ 6:56am...is being framed to hang on the wall.

Robert Cook said...

"If it is true that Bernie and not Warren is the left-wing choice, why is that happening?"

Because the big-money donors know that, his rhetoric aside, Bernie is basically a standard-issue Democrat, and, like Obama, he will not try to govern from the left if he wins office, but from a more centrist position. He will keep things going as they are, and no one currently raping the American people for profit will have to cease their rapine or will see a decline in profits.

Robert Cook said...

"...nobody can pay more than you're worth for long."

Unless you're in upper management.

rehajm said...

One more choice: We were told last time the American electorate is sexist and Bernie’s a bro...

Automatic_Wing said...

The idea of only having to stock one kind of deodorant appeals to retail workers. One People's Deodorant to rule them all!

Tank said...

Maybe it's because AOC endorsed Bernie, and all her leftist young (and old) followers are falling into line.

Lincolntf said...

If Bernie Sanders is the "moderate" choice, the Dems are in worse shape than I thought. They get their environmental policies from a teenager in a sailboat while their economic plan is championed by a semi-literate barista, so Bernie must have "gravitas" by comparison.

Birches said...

I'd bet most of those teachers have student loan balances that don't correspond to their annual income. Bernie will erase their mistakes.

Martha said...

Warren, like Hillary!, is a congenital liar but Warren lies about the small stuff that is easily proved to be a lie. For example, Warren denied that she sent her children to private school when the mother questioning her about school choice had done her research and knew Warren’s son attended elite expensive private schools from the 5th grade on. Hillary! lied about the big stuff—Benghazi etc.

Sanders does not lie to your face about the big stuff or the small stuff. Refreshing.

AMDG said...

Bernie is your crazy uncle. Warren is your ex-wife’s mother.

AllenS said...

AMDG said...
Bernie is your crazy uncle. Warren is your ex-wife’s mother.

Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner.

narciso said...

Hes a commie version of a deadhead,

Bob Boyd said...

Most of the donations are coming from women and women don't like other women.

Women, not men, are the biggest obstacle to a first female president.

Bob Boyd said...

Bernie looks like he really needs 5 bucks.

Shouting Thomas said...

Cookie won’t be happy until we have our very own Stalin and GULAG.

He imagines that with the “right people,” i.e. commies like him, it will work out well this time.

Be happy, comrade Cookie! di Blaiso is letting the thugs out of jail. The anarchy and civil strife of your dreams is about to return to NYC.

Phil 314 said...

I voted the second option in the poll but I would NEVER vote for Socialist Sanders.

Swede said...

What'll happen when the DNC takes it away from him again?

Or do you think they'll let an actual commie get the nod this time around?

I'm guessing ski chalet. I don't think he has one of those yet.

Lance said...

“Sincere and authentic” = openly socialist. Warren on the other hand is still trying to pretend she’s a let’s-work-together moderate. The socialists don’t like that, they want their revolution now.

BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

The Starbucks liberal. *ugh*

mockturtle said...

Swede speculates: What'll happen when the DNC takes it away from him again?

Or do you think they'll let an actual commie get the nod this time around?

I'm guessing ski chalet. I don't think he has one of those yet.


I'm guessing 'heart attack', wink-wink. No one would believe suicide.

BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

"He's authentic and good" is winning? LOL. Vote early, vote often.

BleachBit-and-Hammers said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

Martha - Indeed.
To be a correct modern democratic, lying is a large portion of the package deal. The media provide all the cover.

Francisco D said...

Because the big-money donors know that, his rhetoric aside, Bernie is basically a standard-issue Democrat, and, like Obama, he will not try to govern from the left if he wins office, but from a more centrist position.

Cookie,

You are suggesting that Bernie is lying with his campaign promises.

We also have a very very different view of what "centrist" means. There are two candidates who can plausibly be called that:

1. Mike Bloomberg

2. Donald Trump

BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

Try this, Hillary. ya Russian money-taking Maddow whore.

mockturtle said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
mockturtle said...

BleachBit is incredulous: "He's authentic and good" is winning? LOL. Vote early, vote often.

Option two is how I see Bernie supporters' perception of him. It doesn't reflect my own.

Michael K said...

The constant is that nobody can pay more than you're worth for long.

Cook and most leftists have no idea this is true. Economics is a mystery to the left.

They believe in magic.

Beasts of England said...

The DNC convention In Milwaukee will be a freak show. 🍿

sinz52 said...

People respect Sanders because he's authentic. He's been a consistent and clear advocate for socialism. He didn't just embrace socialism this year to get the votes of the woke progressives. Nor does he just spout talking-points from focus groups.

I totally disagree with Sanders' socialism. But I respect him for standing up for what he believes in without worrying about what the next poll will say.

Elizabeth Warren already has a track record of lying and shading the truth.

I'm not worried about a Sanders election win. If the GOP cannot explain what's wrong with socialism per se, it doesn't deserve to win elections anymore!

Big Mike said...

I wanted to split my vote, 1/3 for #2 and 2/3 for #3. There isn’t an authentic bone in Warren’s body, but even so once you start looking at the particulars of “I have a plan for that” then either you have the shit scared out of you, or you are lying about having looked at the particulars.

It is also true that, like Hillary Clinton, she has a political tin ear.

Tommy Duncan said...

The many Democrat candidates will engage in intense fund raising and campaign spending for at least the next 3 or 4 months. Meanwhile, Trump will be coasting along, raising money and spending little. Will the Democrats tap out their donors while Trump watches in idle amusement with his ever growing campaign fund? Incumbency has its advantages.

Also: "The senator (Sanders) routinely criticizes Amazon and Walmart for the pay and benefits they give workers."

Does Bernie understand the relationship between hourly pay and the economic value of the services performed for that pay?

Browndog said...

Both express intense passion, but it's harder to take, coming from a woman.

I don't think it's because the commies are misogynists. I think they're just racists.

@ComfortablySmug

"With Julian Castro out, I am now the only Latino candidate running" - Elizabeth Warren


LOL.

Tommy Duncan said...

Please note that impeachment is not a topic today. Is that what Pelosi and the Democrats were hoping for? Has America moved on? Is impeachment dead?

rcocean said...

Just a reminder Bernie is 78 y/o and has a bad heart. Why are people supporting him?

Big Mike said...

@Tommy Duncan, impeachment isn’t really a non-topic. Trump’s $46M was primarily raised from impeachment — “send me money as a way to let the Democrats know how you feel about impeachment” has been a very effective way to raise campaign funds.

Phil said...

"He's authentic and good" is winning? LOL. Vote early, vote often.

It's the best option in a poll with answers that are not designed to appeal to anyone who is not a left-leaning democrat. It requires most of us to do a little mind reading, and that was the opinion that seems most likely to be held by a Sanders-voting moron, to me.

rcocean said...

Bernie is a socialist. Based on his rhetoric, although that is being minimized.

James K said...

I'm reading just now that Trump raised $46M in the final quarter, so that puts the Bernie "blowout" in perspective, especially since Trump doesn't have to spend it to get the nomination.

On the other hand, I suppose one could argue that donations to Democrats have to be divided among the 15 (or whatever the current number is) candidates, whereas Republicans realistically only have one. But there's a reason Trump has no significant challenge (we can safely ignore Walsh, Sanford, Inskeep).

Phil said...

I might have gone for option 4 if it had said "it's too hard to take coming from her, because she's uniquely difficult to watch and listen to." But if you assume that leftists are always looking for an identitarian excuse for all of their failures, "she's a woman" is as good as any except "how dare you assume xir gender."

tcrosse said...

5. To keep Larry David employed.

gilbar said...

IF the Democrat Powers That Be, had thought that there was Any Chance* of winning;
they must be unhappy

If they pick Bernie; even life long, bleeding heart liberals like my mom will flinch*
If they pick Anyone Else; the Bernie bros will stay home
Lose, Lose
Must be sad to be a DPTB

Any Chance* but i don't think that the DPTB think there ever Was any chance
flinch* oh, my mom would still vote for Bernie; but she wouldn't canvas/campaign/FUND him

JML said...

"Does Bernie understand the relationship between hourly pay and the economic value of the services performed for that pay?"

Yes, but: https://tinyurl.com/yy9rrtdf

It should not have to apply to him.

Gahrie said...

How much did Trump get in the 4th quarter? $46 million. Seems to me like this is yet again fake news....

NorthOfTheOneOhOne said...

Why might left-leaning Democrats prefer Sanders to Warren. Pick the strongest answer.

X He's more sincere and authentic. Will definitely bring swift vengeance upon the Kulaks.

Calypso Facto said...

""...nobody can pay more than you're worth for long."

Unless you're in upper management."

Or Joe Biden's son.

Big Mike said...

Calypso Facto for the win!

Unknown said...

Castro is out, so his five bucks can go to someone else now.

narciso said...


Look who a certain bank has been splurging on:


https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/toprecips.php?id=D000021959&cycle=2020

Howard said...

My Cambridge/Boston dwelling progressive millennial elite children can't stand Warren because scolding persona

Drago said...

Howard: "My Cambridge/Boston dwelling progressive millennial elite children can't stand Warren because scolding persona"

What are their thoughts on Warren's ever evolving family heritage fables?

Inga said...

If Bernie picks someone like Stacey Abrams as a running mate, there will be no stopping him.

Sebastian said...

None of the above. Socialists prefer the actual socialist. But they'll make do with Lizzie.

West Texas Intermediate Crude said...

Bernie Sanders, genuine Socialist!
Worth a couple of million dollars, 3 houses.
Some socialist!

narciso said...

Deutsche spent most on buttigeg, citigroup on harris.

J. Farmer said...

Aren't you Sick of working for Walmart? Wouldn't you Rather be enjoying Funemployment? Vote for SOCIALISM! and you can Stop Working, and Live on the dole !!

Yeah, if you don't like your Walmart job, just learn to code.

Shouting Thomas said...

Bernie Sanders, genuine Socialist!
Worth a couple of million dollars, 3 houses.
Some socialist!


That's a feature, not a bug.

While Venezuelans are eating the zoo animals to avoid starvation, the Maduro family has "garnered" billions and is relocating to Europe.

J. Farmer said...

The constant is that nobody can pay more than you're worth for long.

So it's probably not a good job then to force American workers to compete with Bangladeshi laborers abroad or with imported low-wage workers from third world countries.

J. Farmer said...

Funny when Sanders or Warren comes up, everyone starts talking like free marketers. How do you justify Trump's trade wars or massive corporate subsidies from this perspective? Mind you, I don't necessarily mind the trade wars or subsidies, but then again I don't consider myself a free marketer.

Drago said...

Admiral Inga: "If Bernie picks someone like Stacey Abrams as a running mate, there will be no stopping him."

LOL

Previous "unstoppable" dem candidates Admiral Inga has touted:
Kamala Harris
Li'l Tomahawk Warren
Beto!! (Yes, she actually claimed Beto had Trump quaking in his boots!)
Michael Avenetti!

Basically everyone on the dem side.

One quick question on Abrams: Will she agree to give up her role as "The Real Governor of Georgia" if she is selected?

You know what I like best about Bernie? The fact that he never held a real paying job until he was in his 40's and he chose to party without his clothes on with his Soviet pals on his honeymoon!!

Good times, good times....

narciso said...

Chase spent on buttigeg and biden,

Sanders wants to take over the lioms shate of the private economy,

daskol said...

Because there's no such thing as "free trade," at least not while different countries play by different rules when it comes to providing access to their markets, using currency manipulation and other means to advantage their producers, and use other means to disadvantage non-domestic producers?

gilbar said...

If Bernie picks someone like Stacey Abrams as a running mate, there will be no stopping him.

Stopping him? Stopping him from doing, What? Exactly?
I'm not trying to call you names (though, i May be Thinking them Loudly); I just want to know
WHERE do you think that Bernie and Stacey would Go? Think they'd win Georgia?

Nonapod said...

I suppose Bernie Sanders might be concedered a "standard-issue Democrat" in modern terms since the party's internal Overton Window appears to have shifted so significantly. He's an avowed Socialist and doesn't pretend to be anything else.

According to Politico: He's for "studying" the idea of reparations. He's for "free" college and "canceling" all student debt. He wants to eliminate the electoral college. He wants incarcerated felons to be allowed to vote. He wants to close down nuclear reactors and ban fracking everywhere. He's "all in" on medicare for all. He wants to eliminate "offshring", create taxes on financial trades. He wants special taxes on wealth.

To me, these all sound horrible, but that may be where most democrats heads are at.

gilbar said...

Bernie? The fact that he never held a real paying job until he was in his 40's

Well, to BE FAIR;
he DID have a job at a commune (payed in room&board, i suppose), 'til he Was FIRED for being too lazy

daskol said...

Anyway, the notion that Bernie is more authentic and consistent should no longer have currency after he abandoned long-held, pro-worker stances, consistent with his socialism, just as soon as the DNC required it of him to show Democratic unity in the lead-up to 2016. His long-time opposition to mass immigration, legal and illegal, because of its depressing effect on domestic wages is the most glaring example of a position he abandoned as soon as he sought national office on the Dem ticket. He's an authentic curmudgeonly old guy, but it's insulting to people of principle, even silly principles, to call Bernie such a person.

Drago said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
daskol said...

Bernie's embrace of identity politics is another example of him discarding long held socialist universalist principles in order to pander to Dem constituencies. If he was a man of principle, he was such when it was cheap and easy as a backwater senator from a tiny state. As soon as defending those principles became challenging, he abandoned them. He's gruff and rough around the edges. He's a character, which should not be confused with having character, per Winston Wolf.

Drago said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
stan said...

E. She’s obviously a congenital liar. He’s so crazy he really believes. True belief wins over congenital liar.

gilbar said...

J Farmer said... if you don't like your Walmart job, just learn to code.
When i drive down to Independence, to go to the Walmart; i drive past the Wapsie Valley Creamery; and am always amused at their (faded) Help Wanted Sign. It's painted on the side of the Creamery, and has been there for At Least 3 years. In the 30 miles down to Independence, i pass about 20 companies with Help Wanted signs; but i like the Creamery's 'cause it's Painted.

Maybe it's Wapsi Valley's lack of benefits? Nope
*Competitive Pay Rates
*Health Insurance with prescription, dental, vision, and Flexible Spending Account.
*90% of Membership paid by company to Falcon Civic Center
*401K Plan – After one year of service company puts 3% of employee’s weekly gross wage in the plan. Employee and employer contribution vested immediately at 100%
*Company- Paid Long Term and Short Term Disability
*Company – Paid Term Life Insurance Policy
*Paid 7 Paid Floating Holidays – Up to 4 Weeks of Vacation based on length of service; and Up to 6 Personal Days a year – based on length of service
*Bereavement Pay and Jury Duty pay provided
*Paid Company uniforms – for positions where required
*Annual Shoe Allowance – for positions where special foot wear is required
*Employee Appreciation Day and Company paid for Christmas Party

Drago said...

daskol: "Anyway, the notion that Bernie is more authentic and consistent should no longer have currency after he abandoned long-held, pro-worker stances, consistent with his socialism, just as soon as the DNC required it of him to show Democratic unity in the lead-up to 2016."

This will be an effective attack angle as Bernie's previous positions were so strongly and publicly stated, particularly Bernie's previous strong opposition to large immigration (both legal and illegal) since.....(wait for it)......(wait for it).....large scale immigration of low-skilled workers obviously and undeniably drove down wages for low wage workers!

Bernie was Cesar Chavez on that one! Did you know Cesar Chavez was famous for sending goons around to migrant worker areas and beating the snot out of illegals because they were driving wages of low skilled American's into the dirt at the behest of Big Ag?

Drago said...

J. Farmer: "Funny when Sanders or Warren comes up, everyone starts talking like free marketers. How do you justify Trump's trade wars or massive corporate subsidies from this perspective?"

Trump's Trade battles are an attempt to rid ourselves of the structured Trade Deals which guarantee the US loses to its competitors in every way and create Fair Trade balance and an environment the US can effectively compete within.

Trump is using America's built in Trade advantages to leverage these new trade deals which have already had amazing effects across the globe. The US is both a consumer and producer economy. The US can consume approximately 85% of all goods and services produced within the US. China can only consume approximately 10% to 15% of what they produce and so the US has ALL the economic leverage.

What do the Chinese have? Lots and lots of democrat and GOPe political and lobbying support and the Chinese also have dreams the dems can win the White House back in 2020 and return the US to its Guaranteed Trade Loser status and the D.C./Wall Streeters can get richer at the expense of the US middle class.

Meanwhile, the new South Korea & Japan deals on top of current China deal making in addition to the USMCA which rid us of the horrific (but purposely included) "backdoor" option for China and EU to exploit is now gone gone gone.

We already see corporate global supply chains moving quickly to minimize China sourcing which also supports our geo/political/military goals in dealing with China by reducing their cash availability needed for their continued military buildup and other efforts such as their island building in the Spratly islands.

If you want more info on Chinese naval efforts and intent on Chinese island building and its potential strategic impacts just ask Admiral Inga. She's an expert now because "lefty".

Just wait until Trump's team hits Davos later this month as their focus shifts from negotiations with Asia to negotiations with the EU! It's going to be lit, particularly with Boris' massive win (and 80 seat majority). The EU needs Britain like China needs the US and I believe its becoming clearer by the day that Trump intends to squeeze the EU with threats of forcing the EU to use Britain as the economic base from which products will have the best opportunity of being imported into the US.

I just want to see those smug punks Guy Verhofstadt, Ursula von der Leyen, Michel Barnier and Merkel get what's coming to them.

NCMoss said...

Do democrats realize how fragile their coalition is? If the DNC rigs the nomination again in 2020 and bernie runs independent the democrat party will crumble. And you could see in 2016 how bernie's role as hillary-supporter-putz-extraordinaire didn't sit well with him or his fan base.

Howard said...

Gilbar... Sounds like you people need more illegals to do those open jobs that Americans are not taking.

Drago said...

Howard: "Gilbar... Sounds like you people need more illegals to do those open jobs that Americans are not taking."

Nope.

Exactly the opposite really, which is becoming more and more common for you Howard.

https://www.usnews.com/news/us/articles/2019-08-12/after-ice-raids-in-mississippi-hopefuls-flock-to-job-fair

"Job seekers have flocked to an employment fair in hopes of filling jobs at a Mississippi chicken processing facility, days after immigration agents arrested 680 Latino workers in a workplace sting at seven plants."

"Koch Foods, based near Chicago, held the job fair to recruit new workers at one of its Morton plants, after Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents on Wednesday arrested 243 workers suspected of working without legal authorization.

By 10 a.m., a crowd of dozens was on hand, and steady stream of people came and went. Most were black and spoke with accents from the American South. A few appeared white or Hispanic."

Wow.

American's lining up to take jobs at prevailing wages.

Who could have guessed? Well, not Howard, obviously.

Browndog said...

If the DNC rigs the nomination again in 2020...

It's being rigged as we speak. We just don't know for whom just yet. Maybe the vetting process is still ongoing; trying to see who will give a full throated "We will not concede another election stolen by Putin!" if Trump wins.

Maybe Inga is onto something.

Maybe Stacey Abrams is the perfect, 'unstoppable' person for the job.

Yancey Ward said...

Warren looked like the most professional candidate from March until about early November, but then she started with the lying about her past, and lying about shit that is easily confirmed as such by going to older videos in which she tells an entirely different story. I am thinking she just isn't very bright. What is it that makes politicians lie in such absurd ways and on such absurd topics?

As for the poll- Sanders is just more authentic- that will keep his base voters more tightly tied to him, and will draw voters from other candidates who start to falter.

narciso said...

Saving vox employees from.themselves



https://www.cbsnews.com/news/judge-halts-california-gig-economy-law-from-taking-effect-for-truckers/

Drago said...

Browndog: "It's being rigged as we speak. We just don't know for whom just yet. Maybe the vetting process is still ongoing; trying to see who will give a full throated "We will not concede another election stolen by Putin!" if Trump wins."

Take a look at how the dems have changed the the delegate convention rules (no superdelegate voting on the first ballot) and delegate allocation from state primaries (no winner take all, all delegates apportioned by vote %'s).

That's going to be a real problem for Biden on the first ballot though the superdelegates could deliver the nomination to him on the second ballot.

The good news from a republican point of view? Biden wont even realize he's been nominated and will think he is at a chicken dinner somewhere else instead.

Bay Area Guy said...

Run, Bernie, Run!

If crazy Bernie wins the Dem nomination, it will disrupt and rearrange the Democrat Party, kinda sorta like Trump's victory did.

All the Dem money guys in NY (the Bloomberg crowd) will certainly not support Bernie. They will either vote Trump or sit it out, or plead Bloomberg to run 3rd party. Hilarity ensues.

Yancey Ward said...

"5. To keep Larry David employed"

The night following watching one of SNL's Dem debate sendups, I, honest to God, had a dream in which Sanders won the election, but it was then revealed that Bernie Sanders didn't really exist- it was Larry David all along. I woke myself up laughing.

mockturtle said...

The 'sacrificial lamb' metaphor used yesterday by someone here is closest to the answer to the Dem slate. They assume Trump will win in 2020 so aren't keen to waste a strong candidate. Not that I'm sure they would find one, anyway.

Yancey Ward said...

And once I stopped laughing, I started thinking......could it actually be true?

tim maguire said...

gilbar said...
tim maguire said... The most common job is teacher, but none of the most common employers are schools?

I wondered about that too; BUT
most schools are small employers, lots of teachers, lots of schools


I thought about that after I posted—I expected to see them grouped Under “education”, but if every school is counted separately, then none are employing more than a few dozen.

mockturtle said...

Just from my own limited experience, I know only a handful of people who admit to voting for Hillary in 2016 but a lot more who had supported Sanders. Again, the question of the DNC machinations is the pivotal one.

Bay Area Guy said...

Breaking News: Julian Castro drops out of race. .

In other breaking news, I got up this morning, yawned, and ate breakfast!

I guess America was not yet ready for transgendered abortions......

narciso said...



Remember michael moores home town:

https://mobile.twitter.com/ChadLivengood/status/1212512135231750144

Mark said...

Bernie Sanders raised $34.5 million in the fourth quarter, the most of any candidate so far.

You really should change that headline.

Bay Area Guy said...

Before the clever wordsmiths of the Commentariat beat me to it.

Hoo-Li-An Castro
Decided to walk away
El dice no mas

narciso said...

He doesnt make sense in any language.

ManleyPointer said...

My superficial view is that Warren is a rerun of Hilary. Northeastern Senator who explains her policy plans in great detail. Her brand of economic populism seems to appeal primarily to the affluent. As a former "Goldwater girl", she is perceieved by the Dem base as inauthentic. And she fails to connect with the black vote.

I'm right-wing & "Democrats are the REAL sexists!" would get an eyeroll from me. But gender probably plays a role in this. Similar to how religion played a role with Jeff Flake's fall from grace. It's not that people hated Mormons. But there was a sense of "been there, done that" with Mitt Romney & a desire to move on.

Sam L. said...

None of the above, Both are baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad choices.

tcrosse said...

The Sacrificial Lamb Hypothesis includes the understanding that after the sacrifice the lamb will go away. Hillary has rebutted this.

Automatic_Wing said...

Funny when Sanders or Warren comes up, everyone starts talking like free marketers. How do you justify Trump's trade wars or massive corporate subsidies from this perspective? Mind you, I don't necessarily mind the trade wars or subsidies, but then again I don't consider myself a free marketer.

This is one of those things that sounds real profound at 3 AM in a college dorm BS session.

"Like, how you be against Communism if you supprt Social Security, maaaaan! They're really the same thing!"

Leaves all the other drunken bullshitters flummoxed and very drowsy.

Earnest Prole said...

The word on the left-wing street is that Warren's refusal to state straight-up she'll raise taxes across the board to fund all her new programs indicates she's a fake socialist. On this lefties are probably right.

mockturtle said...

Automatic Wing @11:26AM: Yep, kinda like, "How can you be a Christian and believe in capital punishment? After all, the Ten C's say, Thou shalt not kill.

[Of course, God also said, Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.]

Swede said...

Bernie's ticker ensures that Biden will be the nominee.

That will certainly be the excuse the DNC will use for the super delegates to go for Biden.

That being said, I think Biden will choose for his VP......MIKE PENCE!

You fuckers never saw that one coming! Or should I say that WON coming!!

rehajm said...

I am thinking she just isn't very bright.

I've been hammering on this point here for quite a while- she's dumb. She's improved her scripted performance but she's vulnerable as a mental lightweight

J. Farmer said...

@Automatic Wing:

This is one of those things that sounds real profound at 3 AM in a college dorm BS session.

"Like, how you be against Communism if you supprt Social Security, maaaaan! They're really the same thing!"

Leaves all the other drunken bullshitters flummoxed and very drowsy.


Right. Just shouting "socialism" is much more intellectually mature and nuanced. Here's the answer: you can't actually justify it using free markets principles, because the concept is anti-free market. Which is fine. We do anti-free market things every second in this country. The notion that we face some choice between "free markets" or "socialism" is piffle.

narciso said...

And you dont have an objection to socialism if only white people benefit, that was the afrikaner view of things

Howard said...

Drago impressed dozens showed up to replace 243 illegals iced out. More painted help wanted signs needed.

Automatic_Wing said...

The notion that we face some choice between "free markets" or "socialism" is piffle.

Obviously there is the question of degree when it comes to state intervention in the economy. Does anyone claim that Trump - or any Republican politician - is going to give us perfectly free markets?

As far as I can see, you are the only one stuck on this supposed free markets/socialism dichotomy.

Howard said...

Hillary rodham Clinton is not a lamb, She's a vampira cabra.
.

J. Farmer said...

@narciso:

And you dont have an objection to socialism if only white people benefit, that was the afrikaner view of things

Try running a candidate on a platform of abolishing Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid, the minimum wage, the 40-hour work week, workplace health and safety regulations, etc. and see how far he or she gets in the election. I submit that a term like "socialist," which can be applied to Norway and Cuba, is not a descriptive that actually tells you very much.

Howard said...

Careful J Farmer, you're triggering posts don't help the deplorable narrative.

narciso said...

Are you are in favor of social democracy, yes or no?

J. Farmer said...

@Automatic Wing:

Obviously there is the question of degree when it comes to state intervention in the economy. Does anyone claim that Trump - or any Republican politician - is going to give us perfectly free markets?

As far as I can see, you are the only one stuck on this supposed free markets/socialism dichotomy.


My point is that the word "socialist" does not have much meaning anymore and should largely be retired from discourse. One of the ways that Trump distinguished himself from the GOP pack was to go populist on economic issues (e.g. promising to protect Social Security/Medicare from Paul Ryan's voucherization scheme). It is dismaying that the GOP has still yet to learn any of the lessons of the Trump era and still thinks it can stake its fortunes on "tax cuts and deregulation."

J. Farmer said...

@narciso:

Are you are in favor of social democracy, yes or no?

At local level, absolutely. At a state level, a little less so. And at a federal level, much less so. Ideologically speaking, I am most aligned with paleoconservatism and ethno-nationalism, and I am primarily communitarian in my thinking versus the individualism of classical liberalism. Obviously, a question of your political worldview is a big question and not one easily amenable to sound bytes or short, pithy answers.

narciso said...

The programs are unsustainable, there is no way all the benefits can be paid out, so it will collapse sooner rather than later.

narciso said...

How much more tax do you want to pay?

Ann Althouse said...

"I don't think it's because the commies are misogynists...."

I've been around lefties and witnessed lot of sexism. They may know they are supposed to hide it and claim not to be sexist, but I've seen a lot of it.

Roughcoat said...

How do lefties manifest sexism?

AllenS said...

After Biden get the nomination, I think Biden will choose for his VP...Mittens Romney!

Automatic_Wing said...

My point is that the word "socialist" does not have much meaning anymore and should largely be retired from discourse.

Ok. So what word describes Sanders/Warren style economics better than "socialist"? I am struggling to think of one.

I don't think it would accurate or useful to lump together Trump's economic ideas with Warren/Sanders economic ideas under the heading "not purely free market", which appears to be what you are proposing.

J. Farmer said...

The programs are unsustainable, there is no way all the benefits can be paid out, so it will collapse sooner rather than later.

Then when they collapse, they collapse. If we can't afford to pay for them anymore, we won't pay for them anymore.

How much more tax do you want to pay?

How do you think the $5 trillion Trump is adding to the national debt is going to get paid off?

wholelottasplainin' said...


"I totally disagree with Sanders' socialism. But I respect him for standing up for what he believes in...."
_______________

Yeah. For example, he really, really believes in hammering "the rich" and himself owning three houses at the same time.

J. Farmer said...

@Automatic Wing:

Ok. So what word describes Sanders/Warren style economics better than "socialist"? I am struggling to think of one.

Populist would be a good candidate. But what word should we use to describe Sander's, Warren's, and Trump's support for Medicare? What do you call a president who believes in lower taxes but then signs a budget with a trillion dollars worth of borrowed money?

wholelottasplainin' said...

Ann Althouse said...
"I don't think it's because the commies are misogynists...."

I've been around lefties and witnessed lot of sexism. They may know they are supposed to hide it and claim not to be sexist, but I've seen a lot of it.
**************

60's radical Stokely Carmichael famously said, "the only position for women in the Revolution is prone." (paraphrased)

Unless he was a true Backdoor Man, he probably meant "supine".

Still...

narciso said...

I think tom hayden agreed on that point, maybe be learned it from roger vadim.

J. Farmer said...

I think tom hayden agreed on that point, maybe be learned it from roger vadim.

Barbarella was just on TCM last night.

mockturtle said...

I've been around lefties and witnessed lot of sexism. They may know they are supposed to hide it and claim not to be sexist, but I've seen a lot of it.

In the 60's I went to a few White Panther meetings [yes, there was such a thing--a rather pathetic version of the Black Panthers] and the women rebelled because they were expected to provide food and sex but not ideas. And from what I know of Che Guevara, he was no egalitarian.

n.n said...

I don't think it's because the commies are misogynists. I think they're just racists.

Not limited to racism... diversity and exclusion.

Gusty Winds said...

She's fake. A say anything to get elected person. Bernie actually believes his bullshit.

None of the choices fit.

J. Farmer said...

@Browndog:

I don't think it's because the commies are misogynists. I think they're just racists.

Racists how?

Seeing Red said...

They weren’t Trump’s trade wars.

Those were wars being fought against us and Trump finally engaged.

Seeing Red said...

What do you call a president who believes in lower taxes but then signs a budget with a trillion dollars worth of borrowed money?

How much overseas money was repatriated at the 15% tax rate?

n.n said...

So it's probably not a good job then to force American workers to compete with Bangladeshi laborers abroad or with imported low-wage workers from third world countries.

Labor arbitrage is a progression to the greatest common divisor... on one hand. Immigration reform (e..g. democratic gerrymandering, anti-nativism) on the other. If they are acting in good faith, then they sincerely believe that they can plan the baby, and have her, too. With time, their apologies have been a double-edged scalpel, forcing progressive skepticism.

J. Farmer said...

@Seeing Red:

How much overseas money was repatriated at the 15% tax rate?

Wouldn't that argument lessen the need for deficit spending rather than support it?

Jack Klompus said...

Yay! Florida Man Cookie (who lives in NYC by the way) chimes in with his paint by numbers snotty pseudo-dissident take straight from the card board sign of a protester at Swarthmore College!

n.n said...

What do you call a president who believes in lower taxes but then signs a budget...

A waffler, who has exposed many of the practices endangering our society and economy, and is granted the benefit of the doubt because of the clear and progressive risk forced by domestic and foreign interests targeting him, the People, and Posterity. Time will tell if this was a good bet.

mccullough said...

Sanders has been a fairly consistent economic populist. His flip flop on opposing illegal immigration because of its effect on lower income workers is about the only chink in his economic populist armor. I also think his Environmentalism undercuts his economic populism. He papers over it the same way Obama did. The New Green Jobs are goin to be better than the Low Wage Jobs, trust me. That’s a harder sell after Obama. We’ve see that movie.



J. Farmer said...

@mccullough:

Sanders has been a fairly consistent economic populist. His flip flop on opposing illegal immigration because of its effect on lower income workers is about the only chink in his economic populist armor.

I agree. Sanders is clearly more comfortable with New Deal economic populism than the bizarre identity politics of the modern left. The pivotal moment for me was when he was cowed by two fat black chicks during the 2015 Democratic primary.

Drago said...

Howard: "Drago impressed dozens showed up to replace 243 illegals iced out. More painted help wanted signs needed."

There have been a number of processing plants throughout the South that have replaced illegals with citizen workers.

What really puts the lie to your premise however is the real rising wages for the lower and middle class workers who have seen their real wages rise for the first time in 30 years.

I guess its a tossup about what you like the least about enforcing our immigration laws: more Americans get those jobs, unemployment is reduced, wages rise

Sounds like a living hell we are experiencing.

Thoughts and prayers for you during these dark difficult times.

Drago said...

AllenS: "After Biden get the nomination, I think Biden will choose for his VP...Mittens Romney!"

No way!!

If Biden were to get the nomination he would want to swing back to the center. Not go further left with Romney.

Michael K said...

Seeing Red said...
What do you call a president who believes in lower taxes but then signs a budget with a trillion dollars worth of borrowed money?


A Republican president with a Democrat House ? I assume you know some Civics. Where do spending bills originate?

Do you really think Trump could negotiate with this insane Democrat House ? My real complaints are with the GOP in the post 1994 Congress when the only attempt at spending control was weak and they lied about "balancing the budget" with a raid on Social Security.

Read Codevilla's essay on the "Ruling Class" again.

Drago said...

Farmer: "I agree. Sanders is clearly more comfortable with New Deal economic populism than the bizarre identity politics of the modern left. The pivotal moment for me was when he was cowed by two fat black chicks during the 2015 Democratic primary."

Agree with all that. But then, that's the story of Bernie, isn't it?

Cowed by a couple of black gals who got up in his grill and also completely and utterly cowed (pun intended?) by Hillary pulling the Jedi mind trick on him with the "the emails are not a big deal and we shouldn't talk about them" schtick.

In the end, Bernie is a weak little nothing who can be rolled at the whim of anyone and everyone around him. He talks a populist game but when its all on the line he invariably stumbles.

I'm not saying he would have beaten Hillary given how the dems rigged their primaries were (interestingly while simultaneously rigging the CIA/NSA/FBI/State Dept etc against Trump for their "insurance policy") but he just might have pulled off an upset if he had gone all in with the attack.

The contest in 2016 that would have best reflected the nation would have been Sanders/Trump.

Michael K said...

Drago said...
AllenS: "After Biden get the nomination, I think Biden will choose for his VP...Mittens Romney!"

No way!!

If Biden were to get the nomination he would want to swing back to the center. Not go further left with Romney.


My guess is Harris. Blackish and femaleish.

Drago said...

Michael K: "My guess is Harris. Blackish and femaleish."

I think you are underestimating the willingness of Mitt to conform to dem requirements.

If Mitt were offered the VP slot by Biden I have absolutely no doubt he would be pleased as punch to identify as a black woman to help the Ghost of "Fusion" McCain "own" Trump.

Michael K said...

In the end, Bernie is a weak little nothing who can be rolled at the whim of anyone and everyone around him. He talks a populist game but when its all on the line he invariably stumbles.

Reminds me of:

“The typical Socialist is not, as tremulous old ladies imagine, a ferocious-looking working man with greasy overalls and a raucous voice. He is either a youthful snob-Bolshevik who in five years’ time will quite probably have made a wealthy marriage and been converted to Roman Catholicism; or, still more typically, a prim little man with a white-collar job, usually a secret teetotaller and often with vegetarian leanings, with a history of Nonconformity behind him, and, above all, with a social position which he has no intention of forfeiting.”

George Orwell

Secular Jew but otherwise right on.

bagoh20 said...

What kind of idiot do you have to be in 2020 to still buy socialism as a viable government system? At this point it's equivalent to believing cigarettes are good for you, or the world is flat. I bet most flat-earthers are Bernie supporters. Bernie should tell everyone that the world is gonna end in 6 months and get them all to wait it out in a cave where he will communicate with the mother ship.

We have the most capitalist President in history, and capitalism has been kicking socialism's ass all over the world, especially here. Sending Bernie money is like betting against the Harlem Globetrotters.

narciso said...

the problem was ryan and mccconnell (Haskell and the turtle) were most unhelpful in even passing discretionary program cuts,

she was chase manhattan's favorite,

J. Farmer said...

@Michael K:

A Republican president with a Democrat House ? I assume you know some Civics. Where do spending bills originate?

Do you really think Trump could negotiate with this insane Democrat House ?


So Trump really didn't want those double-digit percentage increases in military spending but was forced to approve them by the "insane Democrat House?"

bagoh20 said...

Why do the Dems always put out candidates for President who have few if any accomplishments, and some like Bernie and Hillary have been at it for a lifetime and still haven't accomplished anything other than getting famous and making cash off of politics. Bernie, like Obama, has done nothing, run nothing, fixed nothing, but he made millions writing about that failure. If they were applying for a job that required doing things, you'd be nuts to hire them. I think the Presidency needs someone who knows how to do things besides get boneheads to send them money and vote for them. How hard is it to get votes by promissing free stuff? Just taking that strategy should tell you they are lightweights.

Rusty said...

"Does Bernie understand the relationship between hourly pay and the economic value of the services performed for that pay?"
It is a fundamental misunderstanding or ignorance of the concept of value. It is also assuming that value is always static and that the marketplace is a zero sum game. Like farmer arguing "free markets" First define what a market is.

J. Farmer said...

@bagoh20:

We have the most capitalist President in history, and capitalism has been kicking socialism's ass all over the world, especially here.

What are you smoking? Trump ran to the left of the traditional GOP on economic terms. Exactly what socialist ass all over the world do you actually believe he has been kicking?

J. Farmer said...

First define what a market is.

Where supply and demand are mediated.

bagoh20 said...

"So Trump really didn't want those double-digit percentage increases in military spending but was forced to approve them by the "insane Democrat House?"

The military is one of the few Constitutional responsibilities of our government to spend money. The Dems insisted that if he wanted to do his Constitutional job, that they must have even more expenditures that are not the government's job. That's how spending gets out of hand. Imagine if every dollar you spent on food required you to spend 2 on spa treatments for the family. Would you stop buying food?

J. Farmer said...

@bagoh20:

The Dems insisted that if he wanted to do his Constitutional job, that they must have even more expenditures that are not the government's job.

Do you think Trump considers Social Security and Medicare to be "the government's job?"

bagoh20 said...

"What are you smoking? Trump ran to the left of the traditional GOP on economic terms. Exactly what socialist ass all over the world do you actually believe he has been kicking?"

What are you snorting? You think the GOP is conservative? It doesn't matter what politicians run on. It's what they do that matters. And, I said capitalism is kicking ass, which it is. Where socialist and communist governments are not collapsing, they survive via force or allowing enough capitalism to support their fantasy ideology. You tell me where socialism is doing better.

Seeing Red said...

So Trump really didn't want those double-digit percentage increases in military spending but was forced to approve them by the "insane Democrat House?"

What did they get in return?

bagoh20 said...

"Do you think Trump considers Social Security and Medicare to be "the government's job?"

I don't know, but it doesn't matter what he or anybody else thinks about either one. They have their own power and no politician is going the change them in any significant way until they collapse. They are givens that cannot be played with if you want to get anything else done.

J. Farmer said...

@Seeing Red:

What did they get in return?

It doesn't matter. Even if you eliminated the entire non-military discretionary spending budget, you'd still have a fiscal problem.

J. Farmer said...

I don't know, but it doesn't matter what he or anybody else thinks about either one. They have their own power and no politician is going the change them in any significant way until they collapse. They are givens that cannot be played with if you want to get anything else done.

Okay, I'll accept that. But then what does it mean to say that "we have the most capitalist President in history?"

bagoh20 said...

Who was more capitalist than Trump who has cut taxes, especially corporate taxes, cut regulations, and fought for better trade deals for our companies? I'd do a lot more, but that's more than anyone else has done in my lifetime.

FullMoon said...

Social Security always going broke but Welfare lives forever.

J. Farmer said...

@bagoh20:

Who was more capitalist than Trump who has cut taxes, especially corporate taxes, cut regulations, and fought for better trade deals for our companies?

I don't consider tax cuts and more deficit spending to be emblematic of capitalism the same way you do. And again, I'm all for protectionism in trade. But that is not capitalism.

Jim at said...

If Bernie picks someone like Stacey Abrams as a running mate, there will be no stopping him.

Stupidest thing you've ever written. And that's a high bar.

bagoh20 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Bilwick said...

And of course the Dems COULD just give all that money to poor and needy people, instead if using it to expand the State.

"I remember when 'liberal' meant being generous with your own money."--Will Rogers

bagoh20 said...

Whether actually possible or not, the only politically viable way out of deficit spending is through growth. Without a thriving economy it's even harder to cut spending.

Trade policy that gives our competitors the right to protectionism against us is like fighting a war without shooting back. As in a war, you have to do things you do not want, use methods normally off limits, but if you do not, and allow the other side to do what they want, you just lose. I'm pretty sure Trump is no fan of protectionism, but sending it back at our competitors is pretty much the only way to get them to lose their appetite for it, and it's working so far.

walter said...

"But what word should we use to describe Sander's, Warren's, and Trump's support for Medicare?"
--
In-congruent.
One not addressing the problem, the other two viewing it as a success to "expodentially" expand.

mccullough said...

There is a certain point where taxes are so high that gainful employment for 95% of the population is for all intents and purposes pointless as a way to support yourself. That could be a type of socialism then. The government is basically confiscating your paycheck and then paying on your behalf for all the things you need (and others need): Education, healthcare, food, shelter, utilities.

There’s also a point where regulation is so onerous that it’s fair to say that the government controls the economy (or at least certain sectors or industries) even though it doesn’t actually own the means of production. That would be a form of socialism to me as well.

Is banning fossil fuels a type of Socialism since it drastically rearranges the energy sector?

And then there are the subsidies. Are any subsidies, such as for agriculture and electric cars, a type of Socialism? How much subsidization would there need to be before the giver end to control through subsidies is so great that the sector or industry is basically Socialist?

Ten percent of primary and secondary education students go to private schools. So is primary and secondary education Socialist?

I agree the term Socialism is so broad now that it’s pretty meaningless.

Bernie is for high tax rates, even on middle income people. He believes the government should have extensive control of healthcare in this country like Great Britain. He believes the government, through regulation and subsidies, should have control of the energy sector.

He seems to be fine with what we might call a free market in the entertainment industry.

J. Farmer said...

I'm pretty sure Trump is no fan of protectionism, but sending it back at our competitors is pretty much the only way to get them to lose their appetite for it, and it's working so far.

Everybody is a fan of protectionism. That is why we have thousands of pages of managed trade deals. A free trade deal could be written on a cocktail napkin. "No quotas, no tariffs."

J. Farmer said...

@walter:

In-congruent.
One not addressing the problem, the other two viewing it as a success to "expodentially" expand.


Trump is not addressing the problem? He said this at a campaign rally in Orlando back in October: "In my campaign for president, I made you a sacred pledge that I would strengthen, protect and defend Medicare for all of our senior citizens."

J. Farmer said...

p.s. So is Trump's "sacred pledge" to "strengthen, protect and defend Medicare for all of our senior citizens" a capitalist idea or a socialist one?

mccullough said...

Controlling immigration and “guest workers” so as to (hopefully) benefit US workers is a form of protectionism.

J. Farmer said...

Controlling immigration and “guest workers” so as to (hopefully) benefit US workers is a form of protectionism.

Absolutely. It's the best kind of protectionism there is.

walter said...

Yes Farmer, he is bot addressing the long term solvency issues.
But if you think that vs "Medicare for all" is a fine distinction, I am not surprised.
iirc, you felt the same about Trump vs Berno in '16.

J. Farmer said...

@walter:

iirc, you felt the same about Trump vs Berno in '16.

Absolutely correct. And what was Trump's path to victory? Peeling off white working-class voters in placing like Ohio and Michigan who were amenable to his populist economic message. The most fiscally conservative primary candidate in 2016 was Rand Paul. How'd he do?

alanc709 said...

Julian Castro dropped out of the race, and the Babylon Bee thought it was satire that he went nowhere because his first name wasn't Fidel. Are they sure that qualifies as satire?

Howard said...

Well Drago you might be right and with the increase in food cost due to the increase in labor wages maybe the cost of a McDonald's hamburger will go up and obesity will go down. The invisible hand it's always diddling somebody

bagoh20 said...

"Protectionism" is the "killing" in a trade war. We always need to stop the killing when the war is over, but AFTER we force a truce by showing a wiliness to kill and an ability to do it good and hard .

If you don't have a better solution, then assailing the only effective one becuase it's a bad word is missing the forest for the trees. How else would we get China to trade fairly?

Francisco D said...

Everybody is a fan of protectionism. That is why we have thousands of pages of managed trade deals. A free trade deal could be written on a cocktail napkin. "No quotas, no tariffs."

It is like regulations and taxes. What would politicians do if they could not control things to their own advantage and to the advantage of their friends, family and contributors?

bagoh20 said...

"Controlling immigration and “guest workers” so as to (hopefully) benefit US workers is a form of protectionism."

By the same token, locking your doors so nobody moves into your house and helps themselves to your stuff must be a form of protectionism.

Jack Klompus said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Jack Klompus said...

If Bernie picks someone like Stacey Abrams as a running mate, there will be no stopping him.

My God you actually are the stupidest human being to ever walk the earth.

J. Farmer said...

If you don't have a better solution, then assailing the only effective one becuase it's a bad word is missing the forest for the trees. How else would we get China to trade fairly?

As I said, I am in favor of protectionism. But I do not delude myself that it has anything to do with capitalism or free markets. It doesn't. It's a form of economic nationalism.

mccullough said...

Protectionism, like any type of regulation, isn’t necessarily bad.

Every nation engages in it.

Free market, like socialism and capitalism, is an incredibly elastic term. If it means no government involvement in economic transactions, even against private theft, we’ve never had a free market. Of course the local, state, and federal governments can bolster private economic activity by protecting property rights.

They can also do it by taxing and using those funds to provide education so that the next generation can engage in and hopefully expand private economic activity. And provide healthcare for people so that they can better engage in private economic activity. Etc.

I’ve not seen a convincing argument from the Paul Ryan types why laws against illegal immigration should not be enforced but laws against st people stealing his shit should be enforced.





Drago said...

Howard: "Well Drago you might be right and with the increase in food cost due to the increase in labor wages maybe the cost of a McDonald's hamburger will go up and obesity will go down."

LOL

You are an absolute idiot.

Inflation is hovering between 2% and 3%.

Looks like your moronic inflation fears have disappeared into the great ether along with your hoax recession pronouncements from last summer.

Do you want to shoot for being fundamentally wrong about something else, or have you had enough for one day? I'm betting you'll quadruple down.

walter said...

Farmer, I meant your support.
Bringing up Paul is a bit odd, and kind of undercuts your arguments..though they are a bit scattered.

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