December 6, 2019

I don't know if it has anything to do with being Catholic, but Nancy Pelosi must know that it's the other party that is supposed to own the brand "hate."

Nevertheless, I will read the Karen Tumulty column in WaPo, "Nancy Pelosi and that four-letter word." Tumulty accepts the religious explanation for Pelosi's fury at the notion that she hates Trump — "those who know her well insist religious belief is at the core of everything Pelosi does." There's also this strange distinction:
Disgust, to a Catholic, is not the same as hatred....
Strange to me. I'm not a Catholic. Is "hate" a freakout word but "disgust" just fine? To me, disgust is worse than hate. Maybe. I'm not sure. Actions based on hate may be worse. The hater might act out in violence. Those whose insides roil disgust — they shrink away, as from disease. If you disgust someone, you might count on them to stay away, but if they hate you, you're in danger. There's something so lowly about disgust.

Oh! Am I disgusted? Ha ha. But you see my point: What kind of person are you, if you feel disgust for other people? Isn't that the stuff of racism? Isn't that what makes you want to put half of your fellow citizens in a "basket of deplorables" where you won't have to see them?

Back to Tumulty:
Pelosi’s announcement that the House would proceed with impeachment was suffused with religion. “In signing the Declaration of Independence, our founders invoked a firm reliance on divine providence,” Pelosi said. 
She is trampling out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored.

ADDED: The subject of disgust is profound, and I wanted to call special attention to the writings of Martha Nussbaum on the subject. Let me quote from "Back Talk: Martha C. Nussbaum/A conversation with the author of From Disgust to Humanity about various forms of opposition to gay equality" (The Nation, 2010). The subject at the time was gay people, and I presume the philosopher's ideas were not limited or unduly tied to that particular worldly concern, that the critique of "the politics of disgust" was not simply a means to the end of improving life for gay people.
WHAT IS THE POLITICS OF DISGUST?

It’s an aversion to being sullied by something one views as degrading or foreign. The things that inspire that idea are typically reminders of our animality and bodily nature, particularly mortality and the weak decaying aspects of our bodily nature. In Hiding from Humanity I used the idea to criticize first of all theories, like the theory of Lord Devlin, that say that disgust is a reliable way of thinking about what should be legally regulable. Disgust tends to extend itself to groups of people to whom the person then imputes disgusting properties–these people are smelly, they have germs, they’ll contaminate me. You can see the role of disgust in racism, anti-Semitism, the subordination of women, etc. All these groups have been characterized as hyper-animal, hyper-bodily, therefore disgusting. It’s unusually unreliable as emotions go, because it embodies a shrinking from some aspect of our nature.

The politics of humanity is a politics that says, We’re going to think of these people as our fellow citizens and equals and try to imagine them as people with projects they’re pursuing that are similar to ourselves. Respect is, of course, crucial to maintaining the equality of people in society, but respect doesn’t sustain itself. You need this quality of imagination to give it life, to stabilize it.

WHY CAN WE TRUST OURSELVES TO IMAGINATIVELY IDENTIFY WITH OTHERS BUT NOT TO IMAGINATIVELY OPPOSE THEM?

I don’t think any emotion should be trusted on its own without being constantly in dialogue with moral principles. At every point, whether it’s anger or fear or any emotion–even compassion, which can, of course, lead you to favor your family against other people–you should always be asking, Is this consistent with the idea of a society of people who are free and equal? Disgust, though, is different because it has this singular type of irrationality. It’s not noncognitive; it has an idea. But the idea repudiates some aspect of ourselves. It embodies a kind of self-loathing. In the case of compassion, compassion can be uneven; it can target people in a partial way. Or anger can be wrong about the facts. But disgust always has this edgy irrationality about it. It’s a way of fleeing from yourself. Whether it’s useful in evolutionary terms, that I leave to evolutionary scientists. Probably it is. That doesn’t mean that in the law we should rely on it. The imagination of humanity, of course, can be unreliable too. But all we’re really asking is that people see the other people as people. And I think that’s actually not so unreliable. What we see is that when people know that their children or their children’s friends or some relative is gay or lesbian, they immediately change. Then they can’t see them as slimy slugs. They’re just people. They may not like those people, but they still see them as people.

181 comments:

Michael K said...

Nancy is one of those partial birth abortion Catholics.

Those gestures of hers were really bizarre. Is that Parkinson's ?

rehajm said...

As I recall guilt is the emotion of Catholicism.

Mort said...

I am a Catholic, and I am disgusted that Nancy Pelosi used her Catholicism in her response.

AllenS said...

How do Karen Tumulty and Nancy Pelosi feel about the unborn? Do they love them? Do they want them to succeed in life? Or, do they hate them, and want them dead?

Oso Negro said...

Nice Civil War allusion. Let's all pray it never comes to that. I would never want to shoot a Democrat for the same reason I never wanted to hit my ex-wife - fear that if I did it just once, I wouldn't be able to stop. And I don't love Republicans. I just hate Democrats that much.

Mr. Forward said...

"Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord:"
And you thought it was Botox.

JML said...

Don't worry Mort: Nancy will prey for you.

Oso Negro said...

Oh, and Supreme Leader Nancy Pelosi reportedly said that "Civilization itself is at stake" if Trump wins re-election.

phantommut said...

They've got to appeal to religion because it sure doesn't look like the law is on their side.

Lucid-Ideas said...

Love trumps hate and disgust trumps hate and hate trumps revulsion and...I got confused. Let's call the whole thing off.

Jamie said...

(trumpet flourish)

Mr. Forward, may I present the Keys to the Internet.

(Applause)

Lucid-Ideas said...

"Disgust isn't the same thing as hate"

Wow thanks! We don't actually hate abortion, we're 'disgusted' by it. See! All better!

We don't hate gays, we're 'disgusted' by it. See? Not bigots!

Not hate! Yay!

buwaya said...

Well, that is very silly.
Born and bred Catholic and raised in Catholic countries, and - yes, I assure you that Catholics hate just fine. Its a sin, and we sin.

Pelosi is not Catholic, really, in any case, other than culturally.
The abortion thing is an absolute no go. And so also with much else.
You can be a sinner, you can be corrupt and tyrannical, but to support abortion as policy?
No actual believing Catholic can.

henry said...

OK, go argue about who is or isn't a good Catholic. It takes the eyes off the "evidence" which inconveniently for Nancy doesn't exist. Good politics, spastically delivered.

(disclosure, in the coke vs pepsi wars, i choose beer).

pacwest said...

Maybe she had just gone to confession to absolve her of her hate. The question riled her up and now she has to go back again. Dammit.

Lucid-Ideas said...

In other news the Catholic Inquisition released a post-dated press-release circa 1495 explaining that it is impossible for Catholics to 'hate' and that the Albigensian Crusade and burning of conversos in Spain was for their own good. No hate was involved. Disgust was absolved through papal indulgence (as well as original sin), dogma and doctrine need not be consistent, and they're thoroughly disgusted by Vatican II. P.S. they still hate Luther.

Professional lady said...

We Catholics just celebrated the feast of Christ the King. The whole point of that feast is that Christ is number one, that is he rules EVERY aspect of your life. You cannot compartmentalize your private versus your public life - Christ rules it all. Catholics (and may I say other Christians) who tell themselves otherwise are telling themselves a big lie. We are all sinners and lie to ourselves to some extent or another to rationalize our sins. But publicly supporting and promoting abortion is huge and is in direct contradiction to a central Catholic teaching.

Sean Gleeson said...

If Pelosi were a little more studious of her professed faith, she might have made the distinction between odium abominationis (loathing), and odium inimicitiae (hostility). The former is not necessarily a sin, but the latter is always a sin. See the entry for 'Hatred' in the Catholic Encyclopedia to learn more.

By way of disclosure, I am totally Catholic.

exhelodrvr1 said...

Interesting how the media lets Democrats use religion/God as a reason for something, but they go apeshit when a Republican does the same thing. And Pelosi claims that because she is Catholic she doesn't hate, but seems to forget her Catholicism when it comes to gay marriage or abortion.

Bill, Republic of Texas said...

Poor Nancy. Even the Guardian, the Guardian says she has bungled impeachment.

David Begley said...

I remember my mom, the nuns and other Catholic moms in the neighborhood say that, but I didn’t take it too seriously. The Jesuits never said anything about hate.

n.n said...

Pelosi forgot to project and exposed her inner self to public scrutiny.

tcrosse said...

There's a scene in House of Wax (1953) where a terribly deformed Vincent Price says to his attractive victim, "Do I disgust you, my dear?" It doesn't go well for her after that.

Fernandistein said...

"If any man says he hates hate more than I do, he better have a knife, that's all I have to say." -- thanks J.H.

samanthasmom said...

Nancy Pelosi is a Cafeteria Catholic without much much on her tray.

daskol said...

with a little poetic license, but not as much as Ms. Howe:

He captured the White House with Flynn and Manafort so true
He frightened all the Deep State till she trembled through and through
They hung him for a traitor, they themselves the traitor crew
But his soul goes marching on

Laslo Spatula said...

If Nancy is a Catholic, does she receive Communion?

If so, how does she get her abortion-enabling acts through the door of the confessional?

I can see her claiming to be Catholic, but I don't see how a priest can giver her communion: does she just get a set of Hail Marys to say every week and lather rinse repeat?

I am Laso.

BleachBit-and-Hammers said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

It's always sad to watch the Christian hating left attempt to square it all when one of their beloved phonies uses God as a shield.

buwaya said...

"the Albigensian Crusade and burning of conversos in Spain was for their own good. No hate was involved."

Well, yes actually. No hate for any person was involved, within the official justification of all this. The official position on all these things are that it is a sad, unfortunate, but necessary measure.

And the executions and etc. were acts of the temporal power, or if led by clergy, they were acting as agents of temporal power. A fine distinction one may think, but it is a distinction.
Practicing Judaism while professing Christianity was a secular crime for instance.

Marcus said...

Catholic girls start much too late
Only the good hate Trump.

THEOLDMAN

zipity said...


Too bad her deep Catholic faith doesn't extend to reasonable restrictions on abortion.

Beasts of England said...

The two most discussed episodes from this week’s impeachment drama are Karlan’s stupid quip and Pelosi’s rant at a reporter. Fine work, ladies!!

buwaya said...

"Certains jours un heretique
Par des ronces le conduit
Mais notre pere Dominique
Par sa joie le convertit"

- "Dominique"

This is the Catholic best case scenario re heretics.
Now, for somewhat different reasons, the secular powers may have had some remaining issues with the now-ex heretic. Or ex-Jew, etc.

daskol said...

I like Tom Lehrer, snarky heterosexual Jewish guy (despite his love of showtunes), had a good take on hate: "I know that there are people in this world who do not love their fellow man, and I hate people like that."

BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

After God, comes the children.... oh wait - with Nancy - her beloved San Fransisco walled mansion keeps her safe from the HIV needles and the poopy streets.

Quayle said...

Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth. Inheritance of US political power, however, takes loads of naked ambition, enmity, disgust, and a lot of scheming and conniving.

Remember, charity seeks not it’s own, is not boastful, unless an upcoming election is at stake.

Do not pray to be seen of men, but go into your closet and pray in secret, then come out and tell everybody in the world about your prayers so you can use that to your political advantage.

daskol said...

The inimitable Lehrer

Craig said...

Hate is all the Democrats have, and they know it. That's what triggered Nancy.

gilbar said...

those who know her well insist religious belief is at the core of everything Pelosi does

That's Totally True; but her religion isn't Catholicism; it's Baby Killing

Bob Boyd said...

I have a friend who hates Trump.
In a discussion I said something like, "...because you hate Trump, something, something."
Wow. Did I get an earful. I was given to understand, in no uncertain terms, he does not hate Trump.

BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

Hillary's supposed short list pick is someone who was too radical for Obama.
I am so grateful Obama was prez and not that horror from hell Hillary.
In any case, Pam Karlan is a late term abortion fan-grrl. Gosnell for Hillary! Hillary for Gosnell!

Craig said...

Both Pelosi's and Biden's freakouts yesterday can be explained by the "doth protest too much" tendency of human nature. Too much truth in both cases, so a big response is needed to squash it.

rehajm said...

OT: US economy: November payrolls up 266,000 last month. October revised upward to 156,000. Unemployment down to 3.5%. No sign of inflation despite strong wage growth.

Surprisingly!

Jim in St Louis said...

??
I'm confused. I was working from the theory that the Speaker had been pushed into impeachment by the more loony and hate-filled activists in the Dem party base. They DO hate the President- loudly and proudly. I thought that Nancy knew impeachment would only result in a net loss for the Dems. The animation and the freaking out by Nancy on a question that could have been waved away, or even used for her message 'Of course I don't hate the president, I'm just so sad and its so unfortunate and my heart is so heavy with living up to the standards of those white slave owners from the 18th." You know that kind of bs.

But to lash out like that- maybe displacement of the rage? Could she be so angry at the Squad and the Shiffs and the anti-trumper base?- Of course she can't yell at them, she can't even mildly criticize the Squaddies, but she knows that they are driving crazy right off the cliff- so she misdirects her anger and her hate at the bozo reporter.

daskol said...

As a kid, everything I knew about Catholicism I learned from this Lehrer song

BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

Does her Catholic faith allow her to ignore the Gosnell?

daskol said...

Last one, in honor of Althouse's invocation of a poem to be sung to the tune of a Civil War song.

Craig Howard said...

We don't hate gays, we're 'disgusted' by it. See? Not bigots!

That one's too good not to repeat. Heh.

rhhardin said...

Art is a subgenre of disgust.

stevew said...

Can I call for a vote on adding the Civility Bullshit tag to this article?

Pelosi is a fraud which is to say a run of the mill politician. She is also the typical American Catholic: she picks and chooses the parts of Catholic Doctrine that she follows. Yet I cannot figure out why she chose that question to go off on. It was a provocative one for sure, but most times I think she, and every other skilled pol, would just ignore it.

Giovan Pietro Bellori said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
roesch/voltaire said...

I am disgusted by the actions of many Republicans but I don’t hate them, after all we all share the same humanity.

Gordon Scott said...

Jordan Peterson points out that disgust tends to be a conservative trait. Hate would be a liberal trait. Of course, back in the day, conservatives were too polite to point out hate among liberals, thus giving the liberals the opportunity to project their hate onto the conservatives.

daskol said...

Fine, one more, about cinema and popular entertainment.

Curious George said...

"roesch/voltaire said...
I am disgusted by the actions of many Republicans but I don’t hate them, after all we all share the same humanity."

That's fucking beautiful man.

daskol said...

Jonathan Haidt had interesting things to say about disgust and political persuasion. By his scale, I have a very low tendency to feel disgust.

Birkel said...

Pelosi doesn't hate.
No Democratic does.
Then watch the Paul Wellstone funeral.
To listen to Bernie Sanders spokesperson Linda Sarsour.
Or watch college protests.

4

Lucid-Ideas said...

@Buwaya

Yes I know, but I take an exception with the 'fineness' of the distinction. Whether by torture methodology to extract confessions ("no drop of blood may be spilt in the extraction of a confession by the inquisitor"), or handing the condemned over to their 'Most Catholic Majesties of Castille & Aragon', I consider the difference to be a convenient legal technicality that allowed the Church to 'wash its hands' (like Pilate) of what was intrinsically a politically orchestrated affair, whether alone or in conjunction with the political authorities for mutual ends.

I'm reminded of what one Vatican representative said to a Baron while they were burning a Cathar village during the Albi Crusade. He asked the Papal legate how the crusaders would be able to tell Catholics from heretics. The Papal legate responded, "Kill them all. God will recognize his own."

So like I said, I disagree with the fineness of the distinction. You could say that Pelosi is washing this whole tawdry political crusade of an impeachment in the sacred waters of the constitution. It's a farce. She is absolutely guilty of what she's doing. Clothing it in constitutional purity doesn't make wiping her ass with it any less a piece of toilet paper.

Lurker21 said...

The taboos against hatred are strong in Christian teaching. Disgust or disdain isn't mentioned that often. Also, hatred is related to envy. Many people hate those they think have advantages they don't have. Disgust is related to a sense of superiority, and that's assumed to be more acceptable by many people, especially if they haven't thought about it much.

Remember how in old movies or TV some character would say in a semi-British accent, "I don't hate you. I despise you," thinking that hating somebody from some assumed loftier perch was more acceptable? I'm not sure it's in any movie but it sounds like something I heard in old sitcoms.

I don't want to be one of those morons who blame the Frankfurt School for everything that's wrong in the world, but in this case, there does seem to be something very Adorno about the attitude: I don't want to hate you because I envy and think you have anything I don't have, but because I can see that you have nothing - you don't come up to the standard; you are nothing.

Very Nietzsche, too, and we know where that ended up. Arguably disgust and disdain have had consequences as bad as hate. How do we weigh the historic violence of those who thought themselves superior against the historic violence of those who were rebelling against those who thought themselves superior. We can go down the rabbit hole and start wondering if a feeling of inferiority lies behind feelings of superiority or if every movement of liberation somehow contains a movement of oppression, but let's not.

Martha Nussbaum has written a lot about disgust and aversion and their badness and inappropriateness in politics, if anybody wants to bother with her. I think what she objects to may be the remnants of older religious taboos that had the force of more than personal dislike behind them. When disdain became secularized as an individual feeling, it was a step on the way to overcoming it, though it took a long time.

Is disgust really more legitimate in Catholicism? I don't know about theology, but if you are an American Catholic you are either remembering that your ancestors were probably peasants and you are a little more cautious about despising other people, or else you are just like your non-Catholic peers and neighbors and subject to the same feelings as they are.

Rick said...

"those who know her well insist religious belief is at the core of everything Pelosi does."

Are we supposed to believe this bullshit?

If we accept this principle we should find many instances of Pelosi and Tumulty defending right wing Catholics and presumably all Christians from accusations of hatred. Thus far my search has discovered the list below:

.

TJM said...

Nasty Pelosi is a total, utter and complete fraud. Catholic? LOL! The Catholic Church teaches abortion and gay marriage are intrinsic evils (never justified) and Nasty embraces both. Tumulty is an idiot. FYI, the devil can quote scripture

Amadeus 48 said...

"those who know her well insist religious belief is at the core of everything Pelosi does"

You have to have a heart of stone not to laugh at that one.

"Those who know her well insist that she CLAIMS that religious belief is at the core..."

There. Fixed it. When Republicans make similar claims, some Democrats say, "the conclusion one draws is that the dogma lives loudly within you."

So what dogma does Pelosi embrace? As near as I can tell, her sacraments are abortion, plastic surgery, and Botox. What strange gods!

Amadeus 48 said...

Rick--we need the list!

Bruce Hayden said...

Not Roman Catholic here, but something jumped out at me yesterday when she was talking about abortion. She said something about being thankful for the nuns, because the priests were too dogmatic about abortion. Then launched into a diatribe about having had five kids in quick succession, and I think then that no men were thus qualified to judge her stand on abortion - coming right after her point about the nuns, suggesting that male clergy (the only type in her church) were not qualified to determine whether or not abortion was acceptable.

That just seemed so wrong. My understanding is that Roman Catholicism is extremely top down in terms of theology. You either believe as specified by the Pope, through his clergy, or you aren’t Catholic. You either accept the teachings of the church, or you aren’t Catholic. It is theologically irrelevant what the nuns believe, because they aren’t clergy in the RC church.

What I would tell Palsi is that if she she wants to be Roman Catholic, she needs to accept the tenets of her church, because that is a central tenet, that of top down unity of faith. If she doesn’t accept that that is part of Roman Catholicism, she can become Protestant. She can even find denominations that have almost identical ceremonies to the Catholic ones she has enjoyed throughout her life, but with female priests or ministers, and even female bishops. And plenty of Protestant churches that do not condemn abortion. Just don’t claim to be Roman Catholic because some nuns support a woman’s right to an abortion.

Gahrie said...

If Pelosi is such a Catholic, how can she support abortion? How can her priest offer her communion?

Rick said...

we need the list!

It's all there but I'll reproduce it in bold just for you:

.

Angle-Dyne, Servant of Ugliness said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Gahrie said...

So it's OK to be Catholic as long as you're a Senator and reject the Church's position on abortion. But if you are a judge, apparently being a Catholic and following the Church's teachings is disqualifying.

Unknown said...

Proverbs 6:16-19 King James Version (KJV): 16 These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: 17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, 18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, 19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

G_d hates but Nancy doesn't. And coincidentally,it's possible that she scores a 7 out of 7 on G_d's list.

Amadeus 48 said...

R/V--that is a beautiful sentiment. Let's talk John Gacy and Joseph Stalin. After all, we share a common humanity.

If a hand appears and writes mene mene tekel upharsin on your wall, you might be in for some rough sledding.

Rory said...

Fred: Why don't you hang out with your other friends? You got friends.
Lamont: Like who?
F.: Like Rollo.
L.: Rollo? You hate Rollo.
F.: I don't hate Rollo. I can't stand him.
L.: What's the difference?
F.: The difference is, if you can't stand somebody, you don't wanna touch him.
But if you hate somebody, you wanna touch him.
L.: And Julio is somebody you'd like to touch?
F.: (waving fists) Continuously - with some of these.

buwaya said...

The political needs of the monarchs of Castile and Aragon were legitimate matters of public policy. Spain was a complex and restive land with a long history of constant internecine conflict. Ferdinand and Isabella, both with long experience in bloody civil wars, were determined to end them.

That was part of the point of the campaign against Granada, and the adoption of the unifying ideology of Catholicism as the core of identity. You could say, perhaps, that the Jews and Muslims suffered for the sins of jealous communities and ambitious noblemen.

Angle-Dyne, Servant of Ugliness said...

Jim in St Louis: "I'm confused. I was working from the theory that the Speaker had been pushed into impeachment by the more loony and hate-filled activists in the Dem party base."

She's 79, which is old enough for the savviest political operator to lose his cognitive mojo. Maybe there's nothing to see or explain here but the garden-variety physical and cognitive decline of old age.

We do have an object lesson here in why one should avoid plastic surgery. The "my brain isn't what it once was" aspect is sad, our ineluctable human lot. But the expressionless face attached to the shorting-out animatronic arm movements and losing-my-shit speech is just creepy, and avoidable.

I know it's hard for some people to accept that they just ain't pretty no more, and that looking old is a real handicap in career competition - but at least you'll still have a human face.

Amadeus 48 said...

Rick--thanks.

I'm not sure about that first one.

Fr. Gregory Jensen said...

What a load of self-serving theological twaddle.

Gahrie said...

But all we’re really asking is that people see the other people as people

No they're not. They're demanding that people see other people as identities, real and imagined.

Craig said...

Ironically, by her over-the-top denouncement, she made big enough news so that "Pelosi" and "hate" are now associated in the minds of many Americans.

Bilwick said...

She may not hate people, but she obviously hates liberty. Maybe that hatred is permissible in her weird theology.

Tommy Duncan said...

It appears impeachment is affecting Pelosi more that it is affecting Trump. Pelosi knows what is at stake and knows she is in a bad position. She stands to lose the House.

Trump, on the other hand, has for 3 years endured everything the Democrats could conjure up. He knows he will not be convicted in the Senate. He doesn't care about the "stigma" of a partisan House impeachment. Trump cares about doing his job and producing results (see today's job numbers). This is water off a duck's back for Trump.

The Crack Emcee said...

Wait - aren't they the Trump HATERS?

Michael K said...

It is theologically irrelevant what the nuns believe, because they aren’t clergy in the RC church.

Nuns have become the most leftist of all Catholic "clergy." Read "Goodbye Good Men" about what has happened to the Church. This is at the root of the scandals which was not really pedophilia but homosexual priests and adolescent boys. The nuns have been radicalized and I would not want my kids taught by them now.

Michael K said...

Trump, on the other hand, has for 3 years endured everything the Democrats could conjure up. He knows he will not be convicted in the Senate. He doesn't care about the "stigma" of a partisan House impeachment.

I'm sure he cares but he has had amazing resilience under incessant hate and attacks. Of course this Democrat thing is irrational hate. Those three radical professors showed how little there is but hate.

Megthered said...

Nancy's priest has said she has good intentions so he gives her communion. She also gives large donations to the church.

Howard said...

This is not surprising to me. I lived in Santa Cruz for 30 years and had lots of political friends most of whom were devout Christians. they base their progressive ideology on the Life of Christ. Who knew?

mockturtle said...

Interesting post. Being a non-Catholic Christian, I've found it puzzling that the word 'hate' seems to be too strong a word for many Catholics, even if just describing their distaste for foods or other inanimate objects. Early conditioning?

Chuck said...

Is this so hard to understand?

James Rosen was trying to troll Pelosi about "Trump hate." She understood it, and knowing who and what Rosen is, she called him on it. As deliberately as Rosen was trying to troll her.

"Trump hate" is a regular, routine theme with the Sinclair/Limbaugh media world that employs Rosen. Just as it is at the Althouse blog. See, e.g., the Trump Derangement Syndrome tag. It fits with Trump's own personal victimology theme. Victimology is the great (albeit underappreciated and unexplored) theme of Trumpism.

Browndog said...

Christians are not Christian. We are.

-Libs

Sebastian said...

"The politics of humanity is a politics that says, We’re going to think of these people as our fellow citizens and equals and try to imagine them as people with projects they’re pursuing that are similar to ourselves. Respect is, of course, crucial to maintaining the equality of people in society, but respect doesn’t sustain itself. You need this quality of imagination to give it life, to stabilize it."

This is why nearly all progs (I might exempt Nussbaum, if I had read this work) act and argue in bad faith: they claim to represent the party of humanity but in fact they always despise us deplorables--anyone who fails to conform to their dictates. They lack the quality of imagination they espouse--and even progs who do have it in other contexts, suppress it when they are fighting the culture war.

Limited blogger said...

Everybody knows a Catholic

Many even have a Catholic friend

Ken B said...

The crowd cheered when Biden went off on the 84 year old heretic. What else is that but hate? Karlan twitched and bounced as the hate poured out of her. Hate is their brand.

tim maguire said...

There is no a blanket prohibition against hating. Christians are directed to hate the sin but love the sinner. Thus Christian frustration for being told they hate gay people because they don't approve of gay acts.

That is, it is the left that has blurred the distinction between hating the behavior and hating the person. Pelosi doesn't get to resurrect it when it suits her. And so long as she supports abortion, she doesn't get to use her Catholic faith as a shield against accusations of un-Catholic behavior.

Lucid-Ideas said...

@Michael K

"Nuns have become the most leftist of all Catholic "clergy."

+1000%. Have an 'internet' for today.

The Dalrock Blog had a piece on this years ago. There is something so completely, horridly and disgusting to women about the word...trigger warning...

obedience

They hate that word. They hate the concept of being shackled to something they themselves have promised or vowed, to keep sanctified or holy, and at the best maybe something they forgot. I repeat, hate that word. It symbolizes their inability to back out of something that is at the low end unpleasant and at the high-end potentially life-threatening. It is why women choose their offspring instead of their husband when they wreck their own families.

Women weren't obedient to God in the Garden of Eden (if you believe that sort of thing), and nuns have become disobedient to the very vows they took now. Nothing changes. There is nothing new 'under the sun'.

dbp said...

I think that Nancy got upset because she got the kind of hostile question that make up the bulk of what any Republican would get from the press. Democrats have a glass jaw because they have little experience with anything but softball questions.

Browndog said...

Liberals can not only read minds, but can see deep inside the souls of men.

You can see why they mock "the sky fairy" when they're not claiming to be the only real Christians-

They are Divinity personified.

mockturtle said...

Lucid-Ideas @ 8:56, excellent post.

MAJMike said...

Further proof that DemCongism is a religious cult.

cacimbo said...

Lefty media knows Pelosi's rant yesterday was bizarre. Even NPR felt obliged to play a clip. Now media are on a mission to justify and normalize her ramble.Come on- when lefty reporters are hailing religious belief as a virtue you know they are desperate.

Browndog said...

Liberals get very upset when you point out the truth. Like, they hate Trump. Or, the weather's fine. Or, anything at all.

Lucid-Ideas said...

@Mockturtle

It is a very very shallow hill to climb when connecting obedience to feminism. The core heuristic of feminism - the pillar upon which it stands and falls - is obedience. Not disobedience to something outside of the 'woman', no no no that is too negative. Obedience to herself and only herself. She IS the alpha and omega, the beginning and end. Her feelings and her wants and desires and logic trump everything. Nothing may stand between her and her obedience to herself. Not men, and not other women.

Feminism is a woman worshipping at an altar to herself, and to a lesser extent the sisterhood.

AllenS said...

One of my best friends at work is Catholic. Oh, and another one is black.

The Crack Emcee said...

AllenS said...

"One of my best friends at work is Catholic. Oh, and another one is black."

At work.

M Jordan said...

James Rosen is a smart cookie. He knows the word “hate” is a Left copyright ... or at least they think they own it. By using it in a question — which she transformed into a statement — he not only pushed a personal button with Nancy, he took the biggest weapon of all from the Left arsenal.

The Left has realized the power of words far more deeply than the Right. But they haven’t seen the problem with weaponized words: they cannot be owned by just one combatant.

Lurker21 said...

I would think better of Nussbaum if she applied her condemnation of disgust to the disgust that she and her colleagues might have for those they don't like, rather than just stick to condemning other people's disgust for groups that high-minded liberals/progressives aren't supposed to despise. Disgust seems to be something universal and human, not just something the politically incorrect feel. I don't know that she's ever broadened her field of vision in that way.

Also, she seems to focus more on secularized disgust, rather than the religious taboos that lie at the root of what she is condemning. Modern secular individuals might have felt disgust and regarded homosexuals as "slimy slugs" (her words), but what religious pre-moderns felt was something more like horror at the unspeakable breach of law and received morality. They would probably be disgusted by our generation's jokes and jibes and insults directed at gays, but disgust was far too weak a word to express what they felt about homosexual acts.

That is the "chicken or the egg" question: Was homosexuality taboo because people were disgusted by it or were people disgusted by it because religion had made it taboo? There's probably no simple either/or answer to the question. Ideas about gender are also involved. It may not have been homosexual acts as such that society objected to but rather effeminacy, which could be expressed in different ways, but which came to be associated with male homosexuality.

If someone wants to argue that dislike of homosexuals and homosexuality is rooted in religion they might be able to make a good case, but it's not all black and white or open and shut there either. In some eras, secular disgust might conceivably have made for much stronger aversion/hatred than religious taboo.

AllenS said...

Cracke, I'm retired. Haven't worked for 20 years. Let me spell it out to you. It's a fucking joke.

dbp said...

Jim in St Louis:

That's a terrific take.

Pelosi, just like the squad and most of the Democrats in the House do, actually, really hate Donald Trump. But Nancy is smart enough to know that this impeachment is going to hurt her party. So she is mad at and frustrated with the hot-heads in her party that are letting their anger make them act stupidly.

Pelosi can say what she wants but the video makes clear that she is a molten volcano of red-hot hatred.

Drago said...

It is very very helpful that LLR-lefty Chuck, who has played the victim card at Althouse more often than entire Wymyns Study departments, has fully dropped his FakeCon mask and gone Full Max Boot.

It is a healthy development.

tcrosse said...

One of the largest denominations in the USA is Lapsed Catholics. There's millions of them, possibly even more than Regular Communicants. I myself descend from a long line of them.

bagoh20 said...

I don't hate everyone, but I am disappointing in you all. I feel no guilt from this. In fact, I expect that's just how God feels about us, so I'm a righteous dude.

wildswan said...

It says in the Gospels that if you carry out all the religious prescriptions but have not charity you are as sounding brass and tinkling cymbals. In the Sixties a lot of Catholics who really lost their faith disguised it by saying to themselves that they had charity by which they meant supporting the Democratic party and so, they said, I am still a Catholic, in fact a good one. So, without going into all the socio-political reasons why so many felt and acted that way at that time, (leaving but remaining), suffice it to say that that sort of unprincipled straddle becomes more and more difficult to justify over the years as socio-political conditions change. For instance, how can Pelosi think that today's Democratic party is charitable? What about partial birth abortion? What about how Kavanaugh was treated? Melania? General Flynn? and Trump himself? But she's still trying to make the Sixties Democratic-Catholic straddle work. And Biden has the same problem. And so, as she leads this impeachment, her most significant and one by which she will be judged, she rushes to assert that she has charity. I will not judge her soul overall but it's sounding brass and tinkling cymbals to say that the current Dem outlook and this impeachment spring from Christian charity

tcrosse said...

I once had this exchange with a marriage counselor:

Me: I feel guilty,
Him: You should. You are guilty.

Drago said...

If anyone is interested in why LLR-lefty Chuck has come out so strongly in defense of far left radical marxist Law Professors who are rabidly anti-constitution, its because it wasnt a long distance for him to travel.

The good news? Chuck and his very good marxist pals are failing....again!

LOL

So. Much. Trump. Winning.

tcrosse said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Michael K said...



James Rosen is a smart cookie. He knows the word “hate” is a Left copyright ..


He has the experience of being spied on by the Obama administration. That must be an eye opener.

Seeing Red said...

I’ve been disgusted with her for a very long time and I’m not Catholic.

Michael K said...

"Trump hate" is a regular, routine theme with the Sinclair/Limbaugh media world that employs Rosen.

Which Chuck demonstrates every day since he was let back in the comments.

bagoh20 said...

Pelosi's reaction sure looked like hate. Maybe she hates the reporter, but she was very angry at somebody. The attitudes on display by the law profs on parade this week also looked like hate to me. Not merely determination or self-righteousness, but palpable anger coming from a place of hate. This is how I see the entire anti-Trump effort: hateful. What I see from the Republicans pushing back looks to me like disgust - a completely different thing. The difference is that if the Dems recanted, there would be acceptance by the Right, but if Trump surrendered, the hate would continue, even if he was assassinated. They want his head on a pike in Lake Havasu City, AZ.

Curious George said...

"Trump hate" is a regular, routine theme with the Sinclair/Limbaugh media world that employs Rosen. Just as it is at the Althouse blog."

No, Chuck, "Chuck hate" is a regular theme here at Althouse. Like I suppose it is everywhere. Even your dog hates you Chuck.

bleh said...

I’m Catholic and went to Catholic school, but I wouldn’t call myself active or churchgoing. But I really do try to follow the “hate the sin, not the sinner” rule. I can sort of understand Pelosi’s point, although she has a political reason for saying what she said. Democrats need their insane impeachment drive appear to be sober and reasonable. It can’t appear to be based on hate.

wendybar said...

Nancy is only Catholic when she feels like it. She uses it to shut people up when she wants, but yet she has NO problem with killing babies?? Freaking hypocrite. She hates Trump. She is a liar, as well as a fair weather Catholic.

Browndog said...

It's no wonder democrats are getting anything done-

Pelosi spends all her time on her knees, rosary in hand, praying for Donald Trump.

If you don't believe her, you're a hater. She'd probably pray for you too, but there's not a lot of time when you're praying for Trump "all the time".

mockturtle said...

Just watched a clip where she claims to pray for Trump every day. I believe her. She probably prays for him to drop dead. Nancy's not fooling me.

mockturtle said...

Wanting someone dead, e.g., unborn babies, isn't as bad as 'hate', of course...

Bay Area Guy said...

These liberal Catholic politicians are a confused lot.

Nancy Pants is a Pro-abortion Catholic in the same way I'm a steak-eating vegetarian.

Amadeus 48 said...

If you a Democrat politician, and you screw up, and you feel as low as you have ever felt in your life, call Howard. He understands, he will explain you to others, and he will lick your hand.

Todd said...

Chuck said...

Is this so hard to understand?

...

"Trump hate" is a regular, routine theme with the Sinclair/Limbaugh media world that employs Rosen. Just as it is at the Althouse blog. See, e.g., the Trump Derangement Syndrome tag. It fits with Trump's own personal victimology theme. Victimology is the great (albeit underappreciated and unexplored) theme of Trumpism.

12/6/19, 8:51 AM


Wait, are you saying that the left, the media, the Democrats, the civil service, etc. DON'T "hate" Trump and are NOT out to get him? If so, I would really "hate" to see how they would react if their feelings toward him moved from "not quite happy" into actual "hate"!

After the last three plus years of constant anti-Trump propaganda and lies from all of the above groups, the likes of which few Republicans and ZERO Democrat politicians have ever faced is considered by you to simply be "Trumpism victomology".

Wow. Just wow. You have pretty much vindicated every bit of ridicule that various AH posted have heaped upon you over the years...

Todd said...

bleh said...

Democrats need their insane impeachment drive appear to be sober and reasonable. It can’t appear to be based on hate.

12/6/19, 9:48 AM


Well they sure as hell let the wrong people run it and participate in it. If the "world" too nothing else away from watch that circus, they took that the Democrats and their "posse" HATE Trump.

Char Char Binks said...

Where are the grapes of wrath stored?

William said...

Ever since the death of Mother Theresa, there's been a void in public life for a figure of surpassing moral virtue. I'm glad that Nancy is stepping up to fill that void. In these confusing times, we need such a figure to offer moral clarity and guidance. I feel the closer we can get to Nancy, the better off we will all be. Just look at her husband. His close proximity to her, has helped him achieve prominence and success in the banking field. I'm sure that Nancy's guidance and exemplary moral guidance helped him achieve that success.

MayBee said...

The Dogma lives loudly within her.

Sebastian said...

"Christ rules it all. Catholics (and may I say other Christians) who tell themselves otherwise are telling themselves a big lie."

Nah. That assumes they know the truth and falsify it. Instead, Palsi and her fellow bad-faith progs are just bullshitters: they don't give a damn about truth or falsehood. See Frankfurt, Harry.

Roughcoat said...

I am a Catholic and I correctly (according to the tenants of my faith) hold abortion as a mortal sin and an abomination. You may feel differently about abortion and if so, fine and dandy, but if so you aren't a Catholic and can't be a Catholic and if you assert that you're a Catholic ... you aren't.

Catholics who support or in any way tolerate abortion should be denied Communion.

Bilwick said...

Gordon Scott, I wasn't familiar with Jordan Peterson's statement that disgust is a conservative trait; but it reminds me of an observation by a scholar I admire, the late Erik von Kuehnelt-Leddhin. In his classic LEFTISM, he says that an envy-fueled hatred (I believe the French term is "ressentiment") is the primary negative emotion of the Left, contempt (which seems to me akin to disgust) is the primary negative emotion of the Right. Or at least of his brand of aristocratic, libertarian-ish Right.

Paul said...

Pelosi loves abortion.. hence she isn't a real Catholic.

Narayanan said...

If she were honest, Speaker Pelosi could have said : I'm the Capa de tutti capi. This is business nothing personal - I don't hate Trump.

Unknown said...

Who believes Nancy when she says she's a Catholic? Same people who believed Obama when he said he is a Christian?
Terrific discussion, though!

Roughcoat said...

She is also the typical American Catholic: she picks and chooses the parts of Catholic Doctrine that she follows.

News flash: ALL Catholics are, to a greater or lesser extent, Cafeteria Catholics. Some more so than others, some less so; but ALL. Which is, in this Catholic's view, not necessarily a bad thing. I won't bore you by attempting to explain why this is so. Except to say: the multitudinous elements of Catholic doctrine may be inspired by God but are interpreted by man. Hence there is error -- which may legitimately be called to account and opposed. But who gets to decide what constitutes error, and how? Therein lies the rub. Things get tricky from here on out. I am given to understand that the "dictates of informed conscience" play and important role in the decision making process. But it does get tricky.

Except with the opposition to abortion.

Browndog said...

Yesterday, the Pope said trump's actions remind him of King Herod.

There is a serious problem in the Catholic Church.

hombre said...

"those who know her well insist religious belief is at the core of everything Pelosi does."

Oh bullshit! What, Nancy the Catholic, genuflects each time she pushes some new form of baby killing or blocks limitations on the old forms? Oh. Okay, Nance, carry on with the carnage!

Earnest Prole said...

I used to be disgusted
Now I try to be amused

Roughcoat said...

My understanding is that Roman Catholicism is extremely top down in terms of theology. You either believe as specified by the Pope, through his clergy, or you aren’t Catholic.

That is absolutely wrong.

rcocean said...

So Protestants can hate, but not Catholics? Wow, where did that come from?

Protestants, need to start doing the same thing. Play the WASP card.

We can't hate because we [fill in denomination] are taught hate is a sin. How dare you accuse me of hate! As a [fill in denomination] that has been victimized in the past [quote past discrimination - if necessary go back to reformation or talk about USSR/Nazi Germany] we are conscious of how disgusting hate is! As the bible says [quote Jesus Christ]. How dare you accuse ME!

hombre said...

Chuck: “Victimology is the great (albeit underappreciated and unexplored) theme of Trumpism.”

Here’s Chuck tracking the inevitable movement of the typical unenlightened leftist from merely stupid to delusional.

rcocean said...

Nancy supports abortion, partial birth abortion, and no doubt in her heart, infanticide. Also, Gay marriage, and wars in the middle east. She was REALLY upset that Trump wanted to stop bombing little children in Syria. Oh, she loves $$$ too. I'd love to see how much "Catholic" Nancy gives to the Church every year.

Basically, whenever Left-wing dogma and Catholic dogma conflict, Nancy supports the Left.

rcocean said...

If the R's had any brains or any fight in them, they'd push the meme that the D's are motivated by HATE. Hatred of trump and his supporters. Not only is it true, but it makes the D's Look bad. But of course, Mitch and his gang, aren't interested in winning, but in pleasing their Rich Donors and making $$. They don't like Trump either, and just want to reach across the aisle and retire to a well-paying lobbyist or Wall Street job.

narciso said...


Itsnot a new story:


https://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/295247/red-yellow-journalism?fbclid=IwAR2wFIr5gt7od_YizTBIdThBPFMfNEUona9tFKoydGabRRMyxMBpAxkzYRg

rcocean said...

Of course, all Christians are "Cafeteria Christians". Its all a matter of degree.

Protestants have it easier, since you can find one of the 500 denominations that will serve up what you want. But I would assume there are certain things the Catholic Church deems absolutely vital you *not* support. How can you sponsor 100,000 people Pro-life marches, and say nothing about Pelosi using her power to keep partial birth abortion legal? And when did Pelosi EVER battle for religious liberty? If tomorrow the house voted to tax church property would Pelosi oppose it? I don't think so.

Going on a tangent. This reminds me of the Spanish Civil War. You had the "Republicans" killing 6,000 priest/nuns, and burning every church in sight, and yet you had Catholics in the USA either advocating neutrality or supporting them. How can you Catholic and support an artiest Government that kills Catholics?

hombre said...

“Yesterday, the Pope said trump's actions remind him of King Herod.”

This Pope is a neo-lib and former Peronista. His political ideology trumps God. Although Trump did order the killing of all lefties’ male children under two years of age. Right, Pope?

narciso said...

That is extraordinary category error.

Laslo Spatula said...

Catholic schoolgirl skirts on strippers.

There. I had to say it. I tried to not say it, to pretend the imagery was not forefront in my mind, but I am weak.

Hail Mary etc etc.

I am Laslo.

Lurker21 said...

Bilwick said...
Or at least of his brand of aristocratic, libertarian-ish Right.


John Lukacs turned Kuehnelt-Leddhin on its head (sort of). He saw hatred as characteristic of the (populist, nationalist) right and fear as characteristic of the left. They both had something of a point in their historical and personal context, but their formulations don't work so well outside of that context.

I admired both Lukacs and Kuehnelt-Leddhin when I was younger, but don't see that much in either now. Fear and hatred and contempt are all parts of human nature and likely to be found in different ideologies, in varying proportions to be sure, but the degree of passion felt probably accounts for as much or more variation than the place on the political spectrum. The idea that what's "right" and what's "left" is written in stone isn't tenable. "Right" and "left" change with the times. They are conventional, not natural.

Tommy Duncan said...

Joining the Catholic Church is a matter of free will.

Being a member of the Democrat Party is also a free choice.

Some tenants of the Catholic faith are in direct conflict with the platform of the Democrat Party. The cognitive dissonance of being a Catholic and strident Democrat is wearing on Pelosi.

Tommy Duncan said...

Never mind. I referred to Pelosi as having cognitive dissonance. That's probably not possible. My mistake...

gahrie said...

“Victimology is the great (albeit underappreciated and unexplored) theme of Trumpism.”

Projection at its finest.

Drago said...

LLR-lefty Chuck is going completely around the bend now that every single economic and trade/tariff BS lie he regurgitated from his left-wing sources is crashing down around his ears.

The US economy is the worlds envy, job creation rocketing forward, unemployment at 50 year lows, real wages rising for the middle class, inflation remains low, productivity up, manufacturing and consumer confidence and spending up up UP, tariff wars being won by Trump (listen to the Jim Cramer bit from CNBC just this morning), and on and on and on....

Literally, every single economic prediction made by FakeCon LLR-lefty Chuck has been blown to hell.

Precisely as we all new it would.

But dont worry Chuckie, I understand that your beloved lefty billionaire buddies are planning on funding even MORE FakeCons like yourself to flood "Teh Interwebs" with even more hack dem hot takes to try and convince all those employed/rising wage voters that things are actually really dire!!

LOLOLOLOL

Time for LLR-lefty Chuck, Inga and readering to start working backdoor to better coordinate their moronic Althouse narrative boosting!!

tcrosse said...

"Is the Pope Catholic?" is no longer a rhetorical question.

Chuck said...

hombre said...
Chuck: “Victimology is the great (albeit underappreciated and unexplored) theme of Trumpism.”

Here’s Chuck tracking the inevitable movement of the typical unenlightened leftist from merely stupid to delusional.


This is an example of something that I wrote because (a) it is so very true and (b) because it is a finger stuck squarely in the eye of Trumpists.

One of the things that Trumpists whom I know just hate to hear is how they, led by Trump, have turned into such victimized babies. We Republicans used to represent the leadership class, not the victim class. We represented free enterprise, corporate leadership, social morality, the military.

Trumpism is the party of the victims of the mainstream media. Poor downtrodden union workers whose wages have priced them out of the global economy. White working class males who gripe like they were women and minorities who really have experienced wide scale discrimination. And it is so personal to Trump. Whose own sociopathology is such that he is always the victim.

And since "hate" is the topic of the day, I don't really "hate any of this. I think it is funny, and I like talking about it and calling it out for what it is. Particularly with Trumpists who freak out at the notion of being compared to whiny women and minorities.

mockturtle said...

"Is the Pope Catholic?" is no longer a rhetorical question.

Maybe Catholics should go on strike until this current 'Pope' is removed and replaced. Or at least removed.

narciso said...

as a fmr catholic, now Baptist, I just marvel the inanity that issues from his mouth, and I don't mean issues of minor significance, as paul might have ignored, but the big things,

Char Char Binks said...

At least hatred can be confronted. Disgust is simply avoided, giving the shunned, the irredeemable, and the deplorable no recourse. That’s the way of the Mean Girl Party.

SGT Ted said...

Hating the Other is part and parcel to modern Democrat Party politics.

Skippy Tisdale said...

"Just don’t claim to be Roman Catholic because some nuns support a woman’s right to an abortion."

Perhaps the nuns supported abortion because they were getting abortions themselves.

Howard said...

You people seem to get off on abortion porn.

mockturtle said...

Narciso observes: I just marvel the inanity that issues from his mouth, and I don't mean issues of minor significance, as paul might have ignored, but the big things

Yes, serious theological errors. How does he get away with it? He's not just pushing the doctrinal envelope but is guilty of actual heresy. Where is the Spanish Inquisition? Inquiring minds want to know.

tcrosse said...

You people seem to get off on abortion porn.

Who wears those Handmaid's Tale outfits?

Browndog said...

Remember how noble libs think Catholics are when Trump nominates Amy Barrett for the Supreme Court.

Michael K said...


Maybe Catholics should go on strike until this current 'Pope' is removed and replaced. Or at least removed.


I've been interested all along on what pressure was used on Benedict to force him to step aside. That stinks but the Church keeps its secrets now that Malachi Martin is dead.

Qwinn said...

The problem with the Catholic Church is the same as all the other institutions of Western Civilization. It has been infiltrated by the Left's long March through the institutions. Even the pedophilia scandals were encouraged (or enacted) by the infiltrators to destroy it from within (as Lenin himself declared was the only way the Church *could* be destroyed. It's actually impressive that the RCC held out as long as it did.

I don't see any way to undo Gramsci's damage except for outright purges unapologetically based on ideology. And I fear the Left will win total victory before the Right ever truly acknowledges that need. See, the Left called McCarthy a bad bad man, and ever since, only the Left gets to hire and fire based on ideology, and in fact do nothing else for 80 years. It's different when they do it.

narciso said...

like wise for cardinal Spellman, the bigger bogeyman for the left, now there is a place for social justice in the personal sphere, but not at the governmental level,

tcrosse said...

There's a story about Napoleon negotiating with one of the Cardinals in Paris. Nap threatened to destroy the Church if he didn't get his way. The Cardinal replied that the Catholic Clergy have been working to do that very thing for hundreds of years, so go ahead and try.

AllenS said...

Howard said...
You people seem to get off on abortion porn.

It ain't us, Howard. Think about it.

FullMoon said...

You people seem to get off on abortion porn.

Recently I explained to a female teen aged peripheral how the abortionist goes inside with long tweezers and breaks of baby parts. Then, re assemble on the table, like a Dollar Store puzzle to make sure there are none missing. And then sell the good stuff for a commission..

I made up the commission part, for emphasis. Definitely made an impression


FullMoon said...

And now, for amusement...

Chuck said:
My point, and my question to all of the Trump fans is this: Trump as the Republican nominee will result in Hillary Clinton winning the Presidency of the United States and holding that office until Justice Scalia is 85 years old. Hillary could nominate replacements for Ginsburg, Breyer, and one or two Republicans. We could end her term with a Supreme Court comprised of six young liberals who might serve for 25 years.
12/ 2015

Drago said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Drago said...

Howard: "You people seem to get off on abortion porn."

Democrat Jack the Rippers (to Scotland Yard Detective Inspectors): You detectives trying to stop these murders seem to get off on murder.

I question this sort of "logic"

mockturtle said...

like wise for cardinal Spellman, the bigger bogeyman for the left, now there is a place for social justice in the personal sphere, but not at the governmental level,

Exactly, narciso. Jesus at no time exhorted the Roman government to feed the hungry or shelter the homeless. Liberals like to play 'social justice' with other peoples' money.

mockturtle said...

I've been interested all along on what pressure was used on Benedict to force him to step aside.

Me, too, Michael. Although a non-Catholic, I had a lot of respect for Pope Benedict.

Bilwick said...

Lurker: Personally I wish Kuehnelt-Leddhin had dispensed with the "Right" versus "Left" paradigm, since it is so a-historical and misleading. As I'm sure you know the term "right wing" derived from the French parliament of the Anvien Regime, where the right wing was the turf of the authoritarian, Church-and-State conservatives. If there's an authoritarian party today, it's the New Tories we inaccurately call "liberals."
,

gbarto said...

Every institution comes to serve the people who run it in preference to or even at the expense of the purpose for which it was founded. It gives too much credit to the Left to assume the March through the Institutions actually destroyed those institutions, as opposed to exposing the weaknesses any ventures undertaken by humans - fallen, mortal creatures - will accumulate with the passage of time. All Gramscian damage manages is for the people at the bottom to imagine that they should be the ones plundering an institution, and not those at the top. It doesn't actually corrupt or debase otherwise incorruptible institutions. Put otherwise, the contradictions Cloward-Piven seeks to heighten exist in every institution when there have been enough cycles of turnover from those who founded it to those who have only worked there after it was bureaucratized. They do not indicate evil per se, but institutional rot.

Therefore, the answer to the Gramscian damage is to get as many people as possible out from beneath as the rubble tumbles so you can build something new. This is something America has already done, not only with the Civil War, but with its precursor, the death of the Whig Party and the emergence of the Republican party. Right now, the parties are dying and that's messing up everything they control. But something new will emerge. Right now, our best course is to have our eyes open so we can jump on and ride it as far as possible before its own corruption and bureaucratization start to take hold.

Browndog said...

gbarto said...

Thank-you for your comment, and the opportunity to learn something I didn't know.

I hadn't heard the term "Gramscian damage":

via Google search:

Americans hearing that last one tend to laugh. But the Soviets, following the lead of Marxist theoreticians like Antonio Gramsci, took very seriously the idea that by blighting the U.S.’s intellectual and esthetic life, they could sap Americans’ will to resist Communist ideology and an eventual Communist takeover. The explicit goal was to erode the confidence of America’s ruling class and create an ideological vacuum to be filled by Marxism-Leninism.

Hence, a banana taped to a wall sells for $120K.

Kirk Parker said...

"It says in the Gospels that if you carry out all the religious prescriptions but have not charity you are as sounding brass and tinkling cymbals [emphasis added]"

No it doesn't! That's from one of Paul's letters.