I've been in a lot of presidential meetings in that room and I never saw anyone literally stand up to a president like that because no one ever had to.
— Lawrence O'Donnell (@Lawrence) October 16, 2019
Only Trump would tweet this perfect picture of his weakness & humiliation. @SpeakerPelosi finest moment. https://t.co/wca1oSqytY
Nancy Pelosi needs help fast! There is either something wrong with her “upstairs,” or she just plain doesn’t like our great Country. She had a total meltdown in the White House today. It was very sad to watch. Pray for her, she is a very sick person!
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) October 17, 2019
Posts
172 comments:
Trump sounds right to me. Pelosi would have to reform a lot to be worth listening to.
I gather it's all playing to different TV audiences.
Trump is undermining their TV audience play. They don't have another play except returning to Trump bad man, which doesn't work either.
Trump's open-door meetings are refreshing.
Textbook definition of Scott Adams' "Two movies" filter.
What did Pelosi achieve? What did Trump?
I love how she said that she wishes Trump was a politician! Trump's brand is that he's NOT a politician.
Political theater, showing two movies.
"because no one ever had to". Hahahhahahaha! These people.
I've never been in a meeting with a table that big.
If information were the point there'd have been a whiteboard. Instead there are nameplates. Everybody is very status-conscious. It's a perfect place for Trump to play with dem expectations.
Beautiful room! Looks like a Revolutionary War painting in the background. What would our Founding Fathers think of Nervous Nancy and her impeachment hoax?
Congressional hearings with the high desk for the members is worth mocking. Any status consciousness in meetings deserves it.
Don’t wag your finger at the President of the United States, Speaker Pelosi. It’s unbecoming.
A good line for Pelosi would have been, "Do you know whom I am?"
Whom would have added a note of dignity.
It's an old woman standing up and pointing! Crazy O'Dumbass must love reading into things too much.
Hmmm...Kevin McCarthy said the other Democrats stayed and they had a productive meeting. I know that's spin by McCarthy, but the Speaker was apparently the one who melted down as Trump gave her some abuse ("third-rate politician"?).
Maybe she was upset about Elijah Cummings's death. She'll have a hard time finding a hack like that again...oh, wait. They are thick on the ground in DC.
Prayers for Looney Pelosi!
Hardin shoehorn his dweeb theory of "guy behavior" into being everyone's bitch. Putin, Erdogan, Pelosi Kim, Xi, Trudeau, etc
Lawrence O'Donnell can relate to Nancy Pelosi, he has anger management problems himself. Probably why he couldn't hang on to Catherine Harold. Who has a history of storming out of meetings at the White House, Trump or Nancy and Chuck?
I understand that President Trump’s tears cure cancer. Problem is, he ever cries.
Pelosi planned this.
She forgets the Donald attacks back,
And is a master of Winning the media spin.
NEVER cries! Arrrrrrgh!
I learned two things working for GE:
1. The first offer is the best offer.
2. If you walk out, you lose.
Nancy stomped her little feet and stormed out....What a racket. And she makes millions doing it. Ridiculous.
Walking out of the room does require standing up, but history refers to moments like as "a retreat".
These Dems really need to calm down. First Sanders has a heart attack. Then Pelosi loses it. Now Cummings is dead. There are better things in life than to destroy your own with hate. Chill out Dems.
Looks like it was donald who had a meltdown, but then he's a congenital liar:
washington post
oh, this IS fun! Serious Question
Lawrence O'Donnell said...
I've been in a lot of presidential meetings in that room
Can someone tell me,
When?Why? this guy would have been in A LOT of presidental meetings in THAT room?
He was a producer and writer for the NBC series The West Wing ; so, is he counting fiction?
Someone lost their cool in this photo, and it isn't Donald Trump.
The pressure from her constituents to just impeach him already, for any reason or no reason, has to be overwhelming. Democrats are caught in their own swirling bowl of bullshit.
Nancy chose a poor time to try and revive the Russia Russia Russia hoax and that she did it to his face shows how gone deaf she is. She must already know her term as Speaker is almost over.
Lawrence O'Donnell is one of the most idiotic people on TV today. WHO cares what he thinks???
Trump gets his story out before Nancy can leak hers to the NYT.
No wonder she’s so agitated.
"Every nation gets the government it deserves." -Joseph de Maistre
I have never wavered from my belief that the United States of America is heading for the trash bin. All that changes is whether I feel like laughing or crying.
Trump is earning his salary.The one he gives back to us. But draining DC's 535 member Swamp Swamp is a Herculean task. And the Swamp owners are going insane and trying to remove him.
But Trump acts as cool as George Washington leading his Army of Deplorables. Valley Forge has been endured and his Scots Irish troops have Cornwallis trapped at Yorktown. Naturally, King Pelosi is insanely furious.
When I first heard Pelosi emerged from the White House and said Trump has a meltdown I knew exactly what happened.
Libs always accuse you first of what they are doing.
Isn't this like the 3rd time Pelosi has done this?
I hope Trump keeps jabbing her until she snaps.
All one has to do is look at an enlargement of the school yard bully responding to somebody standing up to him to see who has the melt down. Add the grade school level letter to Turkey and the picture is complete.
Nancy, with “the laughing face “, will still be laughing when she is taken away in her straight jacket.
At the very least, Ms. Pelosi needs a time out.
Maybe she should watch a Jane Fonda workout video to soothe her frustrations with some physical exercise.
Chill, Nancy!
That article from the WaPo that sunsong linked is laugh-out-loud hilarious. Every adjective, adverb, modifier or metaphor that can be used, is used by the author to portray Trump as stark raving mad, but then you read the quotes and realize that the whole piece is a fever dream. All the raving is happening in the writer's head.
I saw video last night of a press event from earlier in the day in which Chuck Schumer verbally defended Pelosi from Trump and that encounter. The Speaker stood next to him and looked as if she were containing her emotions. Not a good look for her, very weak.
sunsong said...
"Looks like it was donald who had a meltdown, but then he's a congenital liar"
Unless you have real knowledge of Trump lying since birth, the use of "congenital" is untruthful.
"I learned two things working for GE:
1. The first offer is the best offer.
2. If you walk out, you lose."
Quite right, that is my experience over 35 years of negotiating business deals. I think the difference here though is Nancy is not negotiating with Trump, she is posturing and positioning with her constituents (the Dem base) and coalition members in the House and Senate. With them she wins bigly with this performance.
Pelosi looks like one of the people who speak at the public comments portion of a village council meeting. Complaining about the noise from the new Burger King
Based on the picture, either interpretation is equally likely to be right and it's understandable that many people will go with the one they like.
But Lawrence O'Donnell pretends to be a journalist. He has a professional obligation to do better.
Nancy is boxed in. Nothing but fails since President Trump descended the Golden Escalator.
Think about it. What has the most powerful woman on the planet accomplished in the last 3 years? We have all seen the Mueller report blow up in her face. Now she is so weak, she has to do something she claims is impeachment, but looks nothing like impeachment, and having to do it with anonymous witnesses that cant be cross examined, and holding hearings in secret to leak out snippets of misquoted testimony taken out to context.
Now she is upset at the President for exercising his Article II powers by withdrawing military troops. All the while refusing to exercise her Article I powers by declaring war...on a NATO ally Turkey
Media reported that big Donny had the meltdown/ The media would never lie.
I heard on the news that it was Trump that had a melt down. Which was it I wonder.
Come on Nancy - take the vote.
traditional guy, like it or not, we are the Swamp Owners, they are the Swamp Dwellers. We, the owners, hired Trump to drain the Swamp of the stinky dwellers.
7:35 -
That is a good question.
He's probably confused and imagines that that show "The West Wing" is real.
Let's, for the sake of argument, say that Trump has a 'different' way of doing things rather than him just being a temperamental and clueless prima donna. There is still no way to justify how he handled Erdogan. The way the military had to hastily retreat was an embarrassment to the country and very costly in terms of lost materiel, damaged prestige and reduced morale. It also made it much harder to form alliances going forward. These are not the actions of a very stable genius.
Rep. Schiff (D-CA) Tried To Get Kurt Volker To Lie About Trump/Ukraine
OT:
"In a secret interview, Rep. Adam Schiff, leader of the House Democratic effort to impeach President Trump, pressed former United States special representative to Ukraine Kurt Volker to testify that Ukrainian officials felt pressured to investigate former Vice President Joe Biden's son Hunter as a result of Trump withholding U.S. military aid to Ukraine.
Volker denied that was the case, noting that Ukrainian leaders did not even know the aid was being withheld and that they believed their relationship with the U.S. was moving along satisfactorily, without them having done anything Trump mentioned in his notorious July 25 phone conversation with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky.
When Volker repeatedly declined to agree to Schiff's characterization of events, Schiff said, "Ambassador, you're making this much more complicated than it has to be."
‘Stop the hammering! STOP THE HAMMERING!!’
Yeah, Lawrence is an expert on meltdowns. What a punk.
If I had to deal with that corrupt snakey lying loser SOVIET SCHITT - I'd lose it every day.
"Ambassador, you're making this much more complicated than it has to be."
-- Soviet Schitt
RE: impeachment. My morning news feed leads with the story of Adam Schiff attempting to suborn perjury from Ambassador Volker. When Volker refused to play along despite pretty heavy-handed pressure. When Volker repeatedly declined to agree to Schiff’s characterization of events, Schiff said, “Ambassador, you’re making this much more complicated than it has to be.”
Keep it up, Dumbocrats.
BCARM wrote: The way the military had to hastily retreat was an embarrassment to the country and very costly in terms of lost materiel, damaged prestige and reduced morale.
And these costs are worth exactly how many American lives ? Assume for your answer that all deaths are people in your immediate family.
Doesn't show Trump's weakness. It shows SanFranNan as an unglued, unprincipled, power-hungry tyrant. You know, today's typical Democrat.
That image perfectly encapsulates how liberals feel about us "deplorables"... as people to be lectured to and put in their place.
Something else to remember from the world of business: every meeting with more than 6 people is a fake meeting. It is theater.
I can't wait until the Democrats and their tools like O'Donnell begin their whole "This guy is insane! Why can't he be more presidential, like Trump?" routine about our next Republican presidential candidate.
"Ambassador, you're making this much more truthful than I want it to be."
Equipment Maintenance said...
And these costs are worth exactly how many American lives ?
This is meaningless since their lives weren't at significant risk until Trump blundered in his dealings with Erdogan.
When Volker repeatedly declined to agree to Schiff’s characterization of events, Schiff said, “Ambassador, you’re making this much more complicated than it has to be.”
That's mobster-talk.
Congressional hearings with the high desk for the members is worth mocking.
I wish they wore funny hats like English judges, as though they're daring you to laugh.
50 troops removed from harms way and the collective cult left suddenly decide, after decades of faux-anti-war stance, that they don't care about our troops.
Got it.
Endrogan, is an Islamist thug.
Trump is assuredly correct in his characterization of Nancy Pelosi as a third rate politician.
Contrary to popular belief the real power in Congress is wielded by the chairmen of the most powerful committees, 13 (or is it 17?) in the House. These committee chairmen are selected not by elections within the caucus but rather by the level of their contributions ("dues") to the Party. Consequently members from extra safe districts become the chairmen because they need spend far less on the campaigns and can donate the unspent funds. They also raise more money than lesser lights because they are "for sale" - don't worry your pretty little heads, it's the way of the world.
Nancy Pelosi is from an uber safe district and is independently wealthy (husband Paul, net worth $120 million). She is well bought and paid for. And not too smart. Takes direction readily.
’This is meaningless since their lives weren't at significant risk until Trump blundered in his dealings with Erdogan.’
😂
Democracy Dies In Darkness
BCARM wrote: This is meaningless since their lives weren't at significant risk until Trump blundered in his dealings with Erdogan.
American Special Forces in a mid-east war zone and the risks aren't significant ? That is probably news to them.
Hey Meade,
Good to see your name again. How’s things?
I’m good.
As to your comment: lol, perhaps I should have said he’s a pathological liar?
But then it seems “congenital” to me…it’s who he is, is it not?
ARM is holding forth as the military expert he is. How manmy years did you serve, ARM?
Got your DD 214 ready to show?
Or are you so ignorant that, like Howard, you don't know what an O-6 is ?
iowan2 said...
Nancy is boxed in. Nothing but fails since President Trump descended the Golden Escalator.
Think about it. What has the most powerful woman on the planet accomplished in the last 3 years?
Won the House and regained her position as speaker.
Woman stands up at table. Starts pointing at man. Raises voice. "You . . ."
But then, what is progressivism but constant nagging, backed by the power of the state?
Special forces in Syria were fighting ISIS. According to Trump himself ISIS had been defeated. By Trump's own statements the situation was relatively stable until he destabilized it. One special forces servicemen has died in Syria, during the attack on ISIS-held Raqqa back in 2016.
Hope that lady gets over her breakdown.
I heard the meeting continued and was very productive after she left.
Everyone knows Trump is right. Nancy is sick and has something wrong upstairs. Truth hurts.
Pelosi should have done this
ARM is pontificating but no report of his service history,
Nancy is a useless. She lost control to the Schitt-show.
Trump and only Trump is capable of destabilizing the mid-east ? Got it.
Now, back to my question: How many American lives, going forward, are worth resolving your original complaint regarding "embarrassment to the country and very costly in terms of lost materiel, damaged prestige and reduced morale." Again, assume all casualties are immediate family.
PELOSI: I want to open myself!... I want the light of Procedure, I want the sweet love of Power! I pointed to the Trump; I saw him; I wrote in his book; I go back to DC; I kiss His hand. I saw Occasional Cortex with the Trump! I saw Ilhan Omar with the Trump! I saw Rashida Tlaib with the Trump!...
It could happen!
Trump wants to have it both ways. He wants to crow about defeating ISIS while at the same time take no responsibility for the allies who did the heavy lifting (11,000 SDF casualties).
I agree that the US should withdraw from the middle east as quickly as it can, but Trump's actions were amoral, and worse, unnecessary.
BleachBit-and-Hammers said...
Nancy lost control of her clowns. Soviet Schitt is in control of the house. The scuzzy liar mobster.
Too many have bought into the narrative that Pelosi is the moderate, and tried to her best to keep the radicals at bay. Pure propaganda.
Pelosi is leading this impeachment, not "going along" with it.
This is a sample of the talking points her office released to her members 2 days ago.
Note how many times you will see the same power points repeated by both members and media the rest of the week.
I love that "Pray for her". Vintage Trump. BTW, Larry O'Donnell is a liar and a freak. Made up a story about Trump, called the Swift Boat guy a "creepy liar" 50 times in a row, and of course has the IQ of a brick. And stop that fucking hammering!
In the picture if you blow it up, Trump seems to be the one in control. The body language of the other participants is interesting. The one at the top left seems to be treating it as a show. Schumer is focused on Trump's reaction. The General just wants this to pass. Very interesting the difference in body language.
"50 troops removed from harms way and the collective cult left suddenly decide, after decades of faux-anti-war stance, that they don't care about our troops."
Have they ever? I will never forget the Democrat's absolute glee when the number of American Iraq war deaths hit 1000. Like it was some kind of celebratory milestone.
Trump has class. I don't. See below.
“My warmest condolences to the family and many friends of Congressman Elijah Cummings. I got to see first hand the strength, passion and wisdom of this highly respected political leader. His work and voice on so many fronts will be very hard, if not impossible, to replace!” Trump said.
The Democrats have refused to treat Trump as President or negotiate with him for the good of the country. They refuse to do anything on NAFTA, the border, Reform of immigration, confirm his appointees, work on infrastructure or drug prices. etc.
They care about one thing, regaining power in 2020. Its the most disgraceful thing I've seen in 30 years of watching politics.
Meanwhile - "Biden touts ‘really big’ accomplishments at debate.
There is that punitive bankruptcy bill that he passed for MBNA while his son got a paycheck from them."
But the media insist that is all a figment of our imagination. Total conspiracy theory.
who knew the entire Middle East was held together by 50 or less US troops?
She pointed her long bony figure at him,
You sir, are a beast
As he listened with a smile.
Moving toward the election - the GOP would be wise to make Soviet Schitt the face of the democrat party.
I don't see Trump's match in any of the heroes and villains of Shakespeare. There's something of Falstaff in him, but of a more self aware Falstaff who is aware of the joke.
I do admit, ARM, that Trump crowing about defeating ISIS is ... well.. odd.
That's like making a promise to eradicate cancer. It would be nice, but it's probably impossible.
I seem to recall a Merkle photo from the G7 in Canada.
Larry O is unhinged.
“‘Belligerent from the get-go’: Dem senator gives blow-by-blow account of Trump’s meltdown on Pelosi”
Raw Story
"50 troops removed from harms way "
What the LEFT is objecting to is that they are @@OUT OF HARM'S WAY@@
Which they were able to hold as double-edge weapon over war-monging Repubs/conservatives.
a sort of gleeful wishing for the worse resentment - win-win position for them.
So Lawrence O'Donnell thinks no president in the oval office has ever needed standing up to? I am always surprised to see someone endorse
- FDR's internment order
- Nixon's plotting
- LBJ lying about war
- Adams signing the Sedition Act
Sometimes I wish there were a higher-class or more statesmanlike Trump. On the other hand, the spectacle is very enjoyable, and I like seeing signs that Trump is enjoying himself, despite the charges of treason and so on.
Lithgow says Trump mangles every joke? Come on. Some jokes are note perfect.
Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...
"I agree that the US should withdraw from the middle east as quickly as it can, but Trump's actions were amoral, and worse, unnecessary"
Agreed, except that Trump's actions, albeit 1 year late, were both moral and necessary.
Immoral and unnecessary were Obama's actions: "redline" on Syria, leading "from behind" on Libya, failure to act against "JV team" on ISIS.
Have they ever? I will never forget the Democrat's absolute glee when the number of American Iraq war deaths hit 1000. Like it was some kind of celebratory milestone.
Indeed.
The left are all about power and maneuvering for more power. If they can dance on the dead and win elections so they can shove their fascism at us - they are happy to do so.
ARM: "Trump wants to have it both ways. He wants to crow about defeating ISIS while at the same time take no responsibility for the allies who did the heavy lifting (11,000 SDF casualties)."
LOLOLOL
The lefties literally told us obama killed Bin Laden.
Literally!
Thanks for the morning laugh ARM. Between you, sunsong and the rest of the left Keyboard Warrior Brigade it's been a blast and it's only getting better.
What I like about Shakespeare's villains is that they take the trouble to address the audience and tell you that they're up to no good because that's who they are. They give you crib notes on their devious plots and schemes.... Trump doesn't seem particularly devious or plotting. He's pretty blunt and obvious. He's closer to Othello than to Iago.....Maybe you could do a Lear with orange hair. There's authority in his voice, even when he's ranting or especially when he's ranting. Maybe they could play up an incestuous subtext in his dealings with Cordelia......There's something oversized and Shakespearean in Trump, but I don't see his parallel in any of the history plays and, for sure, Trump's life has not been a tragedy.
Via Lucianne: A top U.S. diplomat and expert on Ukraine testified to Congress yesterday that the Obama administration — with former Vice President Joe Biden as its point man — orchestrated the firing of the Ukrainian prosecutor who was investigating a company connected to the Biden family, sources familiar with the testimony told The Federalist. The testimony of George Kent, a State Department official who works on the agency’s Ukraine portfolio, directly contradicts claims that the Obama administration was merely following the lead of the so-called international community in demanding the firing of Viktor Shokin, a controversial Ukrainian prosecutor who was reportedly investigating Burisma, a global energy company long suspected of corruption and
The house Republicans voted by more than 2 to 1 in favor of rebuking the president over Syria, 129-60. The votes included people who would generally prefer to gnaw off their right hand than had the Democrats a victory. Not sure what else it takes for people to accept that Trump screwed up here.
Moving toward the election - the GOP would be wise to make Soviet Schitt the face of the democrat party.
He represents Hollywood, “the rich” California and Communist China.
Nancy must have had a good day; she remembered who was President.
And now, right on cue, George W Bush pops up and makes a public statement attacking Trump while hanging out with Bill Clinton after refusing to attack Barack Obama's far left crazy policies for 8 years since it would be inappropriate, in his own words, for an ex-President to undermine a sitting President!!
LOLOLOL
It's like someone on the Trump campaign paid George W to come out and demonstrate conclusively that every accusation of the UniParty and Never Ending Wars Crew was absolutely spot on.
And it is absolutely spot on, because that's what we've got.
Trump, the stable genius, demonstrably correct. Again!
I used to think that Tradguy was a fun poster to read with his interesting and optimistic and funny (and accurate) historical takes on things overlaid onto today's current events. Little did I know just how accurate he was!!
Thanks George W!! Now please please please go get a few more pics of Michelle and Barack hugging you released publicly!! The timing is simply perfect.
Perfect.
And now, right on cue, George W Bush pops up and makes a public statement attacking Trump while hanging out with Bill Clinton after refusing to attack Barack Obama's far left crazy policies for 8 years since it would be inappropriate, in his own words, for an ex-President to undermine a sitting President!!
LOLOLOL
It's like someone on the Trump campaign paid George W to come out and demonstrate conclusively that every accusation of the UniParty and Never Ending Wars Crew was absolutely spot on.
And it is absolutely spot on, because that's what we've got.
Trump, the stable genius, demonstrably correct. Again!
I used to think that Tradguy was a fun poster to read with his interesting and optimistic and funny (and accurate) historical takes on things overlaid onto today's current events. Little did I know just how accurate he was!!
Thanks George W!! Now please please please go get a few more pics of Michelle and Barack hugging you released publicly!! The timing is simply perfect.
Perfect.
9:10 BrownDog -
The lock-step hivemind have it all down on paper.
narayan: "What the LEFT is objecting to is that they are @@OUT OF HARM'S WAY@@
Which they were able to hold as double-edge weapon over war-monging Repubs/conservatives."
Correct.
The lefties were desperate, DESPERATE, that Trump accelerate introducing even MORE troops into the ME in order to be able to put video on every night of US forces under attack with body counts to boot as a campaign weapon.
That's ALL the left cares about.
Reading sunsong's comments (who literally didn't even know who the Kurds were until she googled them 15 minutes ago) is a perfect illustration.
So very very very Inga-like. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm,.....
ARM: "I agree that the US should withdraw from the middle east as quickly as it can, but Trump's actions were amoral, and worse, unnecessary."
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
Remember when Trump de-stabilized the ME by moving our embassy to Jerusalem?
LOL
History began 15 minutes ago for ARM and the Team Left.
Again.
wait you mean the ones who were handling the weapons
https://www.unian.info/politics/10722549-former-senior-defense-official-detained-upon-trying-to-leave-ukraine-updated.html
The WAR complex is as big as the corrupt democrat hack media complex.
https://www.unian.info/economics/10722594-sbu-suspects-ex-deputy-economy-minister-of-subversive-activities-in-favor-of-russia.html
Drago said...
And now, right on cue, George W Bush pops up and makes a public statement attacking Trump while hanging out with Bill Clinton after refusing to attack Barack Obama's far left crazy policies for 8 years since it would be inappropriate, in his own words, for an ex-President to undermine a sitting President!!
LOLOLOL
Like I said, this isn't about 50 troops in Syria. This is about the tens of thousands in Afghanistan. Making sure Trump doesn't dare pull even one soldier from that failed neo-con endeavor.
Which is why Bush is piling on. They'd rather our men get killed needlessly so they don't have to yield any moral high ground to Trump.
The house Republicans voted by more than 2 to 1 in favor of rebuking the president over Syria,
Yes, and some of them are going to be receiving returned fund raising letters from me.
This is evidence of how deep the corruption is in DC. And it is bipartisan.
Nancy-Pants is one hot Octogenarian! However, as purely a matter of Athenian democracy, Trump got 63 Million votes across this vast country, while she got 275, 000 votes in her posh San Francisco district.
Perhaps, she should stay in her lane...
I am coming to the conclusion that sunsong is Inga. There cannot be two such stupid keyboard commandos.
I'm not looking at Pelosi or Trump, but to the person on Trump's right, CJCS Milley, who just took over for Gen Dunford. According to the transcipt, the Chito in chief has just bragged that Dunford said that it would take two months to mop up ISIL, and he did it in two days. Two people down from him, Rep. Scalise is even more dejected. He just came from the House where he voted in the majority to rebuke Trump.
If the Democrats actually cared about what was happening in Syria they would declare war so they could have some say.
If they don't do that they aren't serious.
Technically Trump misspoke when he called Pelosi a third-rate politician- that is actually a compliment. He meant to call her a first-rate politician, which is the insult intended.
Blogger BleachBit-and-Hammers said...
"who knew the entire Middle East was held together by 50 or less US troops?"
That would be 4 Army Special Forces teams plus a couple of officers.
Browndog above is correct- the real purpose here is to stop the withdrawl from Afghanistan. Obama, to his everlasting shame, should have performed this duty during his 8 years in office, and if Trump doesn't get it done before he leaves office will have this shameful mark on his legacy, too.
Seriously, we have been fighting in Afghanistan twice as long as the Soviets did- 18 fucking years. Enough is enough!
"And now, right on cue, George W Bush pops up and makes a public statement attacking Trump while hanging out with Bill Clinton after refusing to attack Barack Obama's far left crazy policies for 8 years since it would be inappropriate, in his own words, for an ex-President to undermine a sitting President!!"
remember Daddy Bush and Barb both voted for Hillary. And George proudly announced he had NOT voted for Trump (just like Mittens). And remember all the hugs and kisses between Obama/Clinton/Bush at McCain's funeral? Yep, the uniparty sticks together. Bush will go down as one of our worst Presidents - he's already set the record for lowest approval rating. Financial Crisis, Iraq war, TARP, Harriet Miers nomination, and support for Amnesty and Social Security "Reform". The best you can say about him is that Kerry/Gore would've been worse.
ah that line from red October 'i'm a politician, which means when I'm not kissing babies, I'm stealing their lolly pops' from the late Richard jordam
"I love how she said that she wishes Trump was a politician! Trump's brand is that he's NOT a politician"
And that is part of his power. He disrespected her. No one disrespects the Speaker of the House, but Trump did. She stomped out, her feelings hurt, leaving Trump in control of the field. Trump won. She lost. So sad.
"I learned two things working for GE:
1. The first offer is the best offer.
2. If you walk out, you lose."
I very much disagree, and I suspect that Trump agrees with me. For Trump, the first offer is either a ceiling or a floor, depending on which side of the bargain you are on. That is why I was taught that the party that makes the first offer, loses. It was actually quite humorous a month or so ago when I met with the banker whose bank owned Phase 3 of our subdivision. I tried to get him to name his first figure, and he tried to get me to. We went back and forth for a bit, then agreed to get back together later. I know he is under pressure to get the land off his books, but I expect a recession in a couple years, etc. and it makes no sense putting in the utilities, just to sit on the land for 3-4 years. I expect that I will give him a lowball figure by the end of the month to keep things moving, but would rather he gave me the first offer.
There is a time to walk out, and a time not to. Much of it depends on who has more power. Who needs the deal the most. Or, who can fake that the best. If one party needs the deal more than the other party, the other party can extract concessions by threatening to, or actually walking out. Some companies, and I expect GE is one of them, rarely find themselves in the position of having the weaker hand. A friend is in the unenviable position of repeatedly explaining this to the various levels of a huge multinational. He keeps explaining that they have to sign a 1 way NDA. The multinational keeps responding by turning it into a 2 way NDA, that effectively allows them to steal the technology. He and his client have walked away, but not after reminding them that without his client's technology, they are likely going to be shipping an unsafe product next year, and he would happily testify in court that the reason the multinational didn't have the safer technology was their insistence on a 2 way, shared development, NDA. This company just can't comprehend someone controlling technology they need, walking away, since they are always in the driver's seat in these negotiations.
Putting this all together, my ex wife was a master. I remember negotiating our first car together. We went in there with a preagreed to price. They tried to add on their nonsense - shipping costs, destination fees, undercoating. Their problem. Not in the deal. Finally, when we had an agreement, we started to the office to sign the paper. Then she looked at the hood just right and asked "hail damage" (she had seen it much earlier, of course)? Yes. Already got the insurance check? Yes. They had the choice of giving us the amount of the insurance check off, giving it back in dealer installed extras, or we would turn them in for knowingly selling a damaged vehicle as new (my choice, since I was in law school at the time, which they were made aware of). They quickly agreed to the dealer installed extras, after, of course, having to pretend to get their boss' approval.
Trump has, no doubt, walked out of plenty of negotiations over time. Sometimes probably very publicly. After all, t his is the guy who "wrote" The Art Of The Deal. One requirement though for doing so successfully is apparing to be the one who needs the deal the least. Sometimes walking away is a power move. Sometimes it shows weakness. In this case Nancy Palsi showed weakness, by walking out over how she was treated. If Trump had walked away from every deal where he was called nasty names, he would still be living in Queens, and not the White House. You walk out when the deal is bad, not when you are insulted.
ARM wrote:
"This is meaningless since their lives weren't at significant risk until Trump blundered in his dealings with Erdogan."
Prove this statement, ARM. You can't, and I can't prove it the other way. At least have the humility to admit it when your access to information is limited rather than make bold assertions like the above.
I should add that in corporate negotiations, I was on both sides, when we needed something more, and when the other party needed what we had more. I worked for a multi billion dollar unit of a large multinational, so most often, we were in the power position. But not always. I was involved in negotiations with bigger, more powerful companies (Apple, IBM), as well as companies that had products we really needed (Microsoft, Adobe). Adobe was a much smaller company, but knew that we needed them much more than they needed our money. If you read enough technology agreements, as I have, it is almost immediately apparent which company was in the power position, and which was in the subordinate one. Which one can afford to walk away, and which can't.
Unless you have real knowledge of Trump lying since birth, the use of "congenital" is untruthful.
Meade mistakenly assumes sunsong has even the vaguest notion of the meaning of the words she employs
Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...
Not sure what else it takes for people to accept that Trump screwed up here.
Here and elsewhere I have registered my opposition to abandoning the Kurds in Syria, but as to whether Trump is right or wrong, any person acting in good faith will recognize that it is far too early to tell.
Not sure what else it takes for people to accept that Trump screwed up here.
I personally don't agree with Trump's decision. However, it comes no where close to the weapons grade stupidity of pursuing a fake nuclear agreement with Iran. I would rate it closer to some of the more minor dumb-ass moves Obama made like drawing imaginary red lines or trading valuable prisoners for deserters.
Of course, no one expects Democrats to oppose one of their own no matter how bad the policy may be. Only Republicans are naïve enough to fall for that.
ARM would prefer a scenario where the valiant American soldiers had to fight their way out like the marines at Chosen Reservoir during the Korean War.
...and way and the collective cult left suddenly decide, after decades of faux-anti-war stance, that they don't care about our troops.
Looks like there’s enough evidence to authorize the war crimethink tribunals. Notify The Hague.
The more I read about the Kurds in northern Syria and their PKK, the more I hope the Turks and the PKK manage to kill each other off.
I note that those 50 troops were protecting an organization, the PKK, that the US officially labeled a terrorist organization.
Big Mike: "ARM would prefer a scenario where the valiant American soldiers had to fight their way out like the marines at Chosen Reservoir during the Korean War."
Its not effective to use references of which ARM is completely ignorant.
Damn! Autocorrect seems to have renamed "Chosin Reservoir" for me and I missed it in my proofread.
Political Theater, with Lawrence O'Donnell as Joker and Narrator.
I, for one, am enjoying ARM’s profound new respect for our military and Republican members of Congress. I’m sure he won’t reverse his appreciation within the next few days...
I personally don't agree with Trump's decision.
Tulsi Gabbard does, though. And it got her accused of being a "traitor"
Can we please just STOP THE HAMMERING!!!
John Henry
If Congress disagrees with Trump, they can vote to authorize war.
Trump is doing the right thing here. He's refusing to unilaterally declare war.
The Constitution authorizes only Congress to declare war. Let these cowards in Congress do their job instead of passing the ball to the president.
we would turn them in for knowingly selling a damaged vehicle as new (my choice, since I was in law school at the time, which they were made aware of). They quickly agreed to the dealer installed extras, after, of course, having to pretend to get their boss' approval.
Reminds me of my ex-wife. We bought a 1968 Ford Mustang convertible, our first new car. A few months later it developed purple spots in the paint. We took it back to the dealer and were told it was LA smog doing it. We asked why they would not know that the paint was susceptible to this? My ex-wife talked to a service manager who gave her a copy of a Ford internal document that warned of paint discoloration. We sued them (in small claims court) for the cost of a new paint job (about $450.) and won. They refused to pay. She went to the court and they suggested we freeze Fords bank accounts ! They did and the Ford guy came to the house with a check and a cake as a peace offering.
The check paid for my younger son's hospital delivery and we never did repaint the car.
By the way, my next child 12 years later cost $6,000 because by that time insurance paid.
If Congress disagrees with Trump, they can vote to authorize war. Trump is doing the right thing here. He's refusing to unilaterally declare war.
The Constitution authorizes only Congress to declare war. Let these cowards in Congress do their job instead of passing the ball to the president.
Big Mike said...
ARM would prefer a scenario where the valiant American soldiers had to fight their way out like the marines at Chosen Reservoir during the Korean War.
That's not really ideal. After all, the Marines made it. They would prefer our guys get Qaddafi'd ideally.
if Trump doesn't get it done before he leaves office will have this shameful mark on his legacy, too.
He will in the second term and the Democrats and the Military will scream all the way home.
We have a military that have had "The War on Terror" their entire career. They don't know what they would do with peace.
How dare Trump not greet Nancy and Chuck with graciousness!
Meanwhile, they call him a liar, racist, traitor and hold secret impeachment hearings in the basement.
Ann, you should do another post inviting the commentariat here to caption that photo.
"Trump is doing the right thing here. He's refusing to unilaterally declare war."
Right, and which would be against a NATO ally.
The arguments for not doing what Trump did seem to amount to moral, ethical, and political status ones. What is the strategic, national interest that is harmed by Trump's actions?
In the weeks to follow, if it turns out Trump to be dead wrong on something after everyone had a conniption fit...
...It'll be the first time.
Imagine the freak-out if the roles in this picture were reversed.
“Are we so weak and inept diplomatically that Turkey forced the hand of the United States? Turkey?"
~ Mitt Romney
Jim at: "Imagine the freak-out if the roles in this picture were reversed."
The roles were reversed when Rep Gov Jan Brewer confronted Li'l baracky on the tarmac in AZ and oh how the media and lefties (redundant, I know) and LLR-lefties wailed and wailed and wailed about how NO ONE should ever ever EVER do that to a president.
LOL
Trump just keeps exposing them all.
sunsong quoting Romney!!
Just 6 years ago sunsong and her pals were calling Romney a theocratic hitler who abused animals, purposely gave a woman cancer and attacked gay school mates and was going to put black people back in chains!!
Literally!!
So. Much. Winning.
Just admit it sunsong, the ceasefire between Turkey and Syria and Kurds is just killing you, isn't it?
LOLOLOLOL
We have no congressional authorization to be in Syria except for a very tenuous connection of ISIL as a terrorist group. The authorization the O team used did not include ISIL, unless you assume that since the folks who attacked on 9 11 were islamic, any "bad,evil" islamic guy is covered.
Wiping out evil is OK with me, but congress never said it was OK, unless its one of the usual democratic umbras. "Ass" has won in Syria. What is left: What happens to 3 million refuges? What happens to the Kurds, and other minorities. Are all the terrorists dead?
The best result would be the Kurds and "Ass" agree to get together to finish off the evil ones. With all of Syria under his control, Turdkey has no reason to occupy to keep the Kurds from establishing a separate state.
I understand why they worry about a separate Kurdish state. That was an issue for Turkey when we went into Iraq. They threatened to attack Iraqi Kurds. That was always the danger of Biden's idea to give the Kurds their own "separate" space.
As long as we are "with" the Kurds, they will think they are free to establish their own "state". We now see, there are two actors not willing to permit that. Withdrawal NOW seems the only way to go. Unless we are willing to declare war on Turdkey, (with at least a two thirds vote, and guarantee 50 years of funding for at least 50,000 American troops, to give the Kurds their own country.
The other minor problem is the Turkey has a treaty with us. They are officially an ally. We have no paper with the Kurds. We have never promised them a state of their own.
This "meltdown" shtick gets old the second time around. Apparently back in May 2019 Schumer and Pelosi met with Trump in the White House on infrastructure. After the meeting was over Pelosi claimed Trump had a "meltdown".
Okay earlier this week Nancy wants to try round two. She and Trump have a quarrel; both of them claim the other side melted down and piously "pray for the mental health" of the other.
Well okay both sides can play at meltdown. But since the meeting is taking place in Trump's house, it's Nancy who has to leave.
But it is wearisome to hear meltdown, mental health, 25th Amendment stuff. Nancy needs new material.
Fuck the South Vietnamese, right Doc?
he was basenghi in 2012, and Michigan j frog today,
https://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2019/10/17/mitt-romney-2007-kurdish-nationalism-could-destabilize-the-border-with-turkey/
Is it over this fast?
"In addition to agreeing to the terms of a cease-fire, both the U.S. and Turkey "committed to defeat ISIS activities in northeast Syria," Pence announced during a press conference.
“Turkey and the United States agree on the priority of respecting vulnerable human life, human rights, and particularly the protection of religious and ethnic communities in the region,” the vice president added.
The commander of Kurdish-led forces in Syria later told Kurdish TV they will abide by the deal, which Pence said was reached after more than five hours of negotiations with Erdogan and Turkish officials."
Yes, I agree with the commenters who say that if the Congresscritters (of both parties) think Trump was wrong to move US forces out of the way of the Turkish invasion of Syria, they should declare war on Turkey. Then, if Trump fails to order our military forces to attack Turkey in accordance with the declaration of war, there would be a legitimate basis for impeaching him.
Otherwise, they should shut up and go back to impeaching him for his tweets.
Meade
As they say, embrace the healing power of and. Obama/Clinton's actions in 2011 were horrible, but facts on the ground have to be dealt with, and that can be done well or badly.
Consider doctors who treated a patient over time. They misdiagnosed a heart problem, and gave him the wrong medicine. This damaged his heart. They misdiagnosed that, and unnecessarily put in an artificial heart. Now the new doctor declares, “this endless bad medicine must end” and rips out the heart. I'd say he fucked up.
ARM
Trump could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and launch an ICBM at Tel Aviv before Michael K would admit he did anything wrong.
Drago wouldn’t admit it even after the third missile.
um no but the 150 billion that brett mcguirk, the one with a serious #metoo problem, enabled to the mullahs might do the trick, who forced a cessation of settlements, who insisted on the primacy of sharia law,
Ken B: "ARM
Trump could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and launch an ICBM at Tel Aviv before Michael K would admit he did anything wrong.
Drago wouldn’t admit it even after the third missile."
I dont blame you for going Full Adam Schiff Mode with the make believe stuff since reality has smacked you about the ears over the last several days.
Literally everything you and your recently-promoted-to-Field-Marshall-Lefty-allies have said and predicted was blown up today.
Kablooey.
Now you will simply have to hope for mass slaughter elsewhere to achieve your poitical aims.
Unexpectedly.
KOL
Howard: "Fuck the South Vietnamese, right Doc?"
LOL
Moron dem lefty Howard actually figured now would be a good time to remind us all precisely what the dem/left policy was towards the South Vietnamese in the mid-70's when all the South wanted was US military aid to fight off the Soviet and ChiCom suppied.
The dems voted against even sending bullets!!
Then, in short order, it wasnt any guerrila force that defeated the South. It was Soviet armor rolling right down Hwy 1 into Saigon that sealed the deal.
Good one Howard!! Keep it up tiger!
Ken B: "I'd say he fucked up."
You can say whatever you'd like because at this point all you are doing is attempting to salvage the remnants of all your cute theories that were blown to hell mere hours ago.
narciso: "um no but the 150 billion that brett mcguirk, the one with a serious #metoo problem, enabled to the mullahs might do the trick, who forced a cessation of settlements, who insisted on the primacy of sharia law"
You will have to "write slower".
Ken B, ARM and Howard are "on the line".
ARM
Trump could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and launch an ICBM at Tel Aviv before Michael K would admit he did anything wrong.
I see we have another military expert. You and ARM could share expenses. Maybe go in together on a pup tent. They sell shelter halves.
I love these military experts, like Howard who does not know what O-6 means.
Go for it, Big Guy ! Write when you get work.
Oh, and try to remember the capital of Israel is in Jerusalem, courtesy of you-know-who.
Why are trolls so dumb?
Drago,
now I understand why you like donald...you're both liars!
I voted for Romney. I said no such thing.
I live in Utah. He is one of my senators.
Oh, and try to remember the capital of Israel is in Jerusalem, courtesy of you-know-who.
No, who? The "chosen one?" You? The Old Testament deity? The Israeli Knesset? Moshe Dayan? The guy who says American Jews need to swear a loyalty oath to whatever Netanyahu's daily political agenda entails?
Doesn't look like a "meltdown" to me. Looks like someone who knows how to stand up to, rather than kiss up to him - which I understand might be a foreign concept to Republicans.
Reporting is that he said something pretty undignified and crude to her. It shows how credulous Republicans are to not realize that's likely how was it planned in advance as a set-up for this phony photo op.
Not everyone is about, "Thank you Sir, may I have another!" Just Republicans.
sunsong: "I voted for Romney."
LOL
Sure you did! Why, I'll bet you are a regular lifelong republican!!
Keep selling that. Its bound to work sooner or later.....
There is still no way to justify how he handled Erdogan.
Echoes of John Bolton and Lindsay Graham. Good job.
The way the military had to hastily retreat was an embarrassment to the country and very costly in terms of lost materiel, damaged prestige and reduced morale.
Is this not a better description of the vacation by the US government of what temporarily was South Vietnam? Do you so subscribe? Or is this just situational?
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