From the text:
Think of Mr. Trump preening at his beauty contests, body-slamming Vince McMahon at W.W.F. events or holding rallies that resemble the arena gigs of an insult comic. These are the antics of a showman, not a statesman...."Hopped-up claque" sounds like an unfair insult, but if you look up the words you'll see the words are precisely right.
He reads scripted lines like a panic-stricken schoolboy at a middle school assembly. He mangles every attempt at irony, self-mockery or, God forbid, an actual joke. He cravenly fills the hall for every rally with a hopped-up claque drawn from his hard-core base....
It is dispiriting to watch the wretched excesses of Mr. Trump’s slapstick presidency and the rabid audience he commands. But there may be an upside to his crude performance art. His relentless lies, impulsive acts and gassy pronouncements have emboldened American journalists and quickened their senses.I've got to say this prose strikes me as pretty good. I went over to Lithgow's Wikipedia page to see where he got his education:
Lithgow is descended from Mayflower passenger and colonial governor William Bradford. Because of his father's job [as a theater director], the family moved frequently during Lithgow's childhood; he spent his childhood years in Yellow Springs, Ohio, where activist Coretta Scott King babysat him and his siblings... Lithgow graduated from Princeton High School in Princeton. He attended Harvard College, and graduated with an A.B. magna cum laude in 1967, in history and literature.... After graduation, Lithgow won a Fulbright Scholarship to study at the London Academy of Music and Dramatic Art....Impressively elite! And Coretta Scott King is in the story.
Back to the NYT op-ed:
Everyone loves a good villain onscreen and onstage. Shakespeare himself must have especially relished writing lines for Macbeth, Iago and Richard III. But coldhearted monsters in movies and plays are the stuff of fantasy. When we’re sitting in the audience, some part of us is reassured knowing that we are watching fiction.Here's another difference between a play and real life. In a play, everyone in the audience can tell who the villain is. There's a playwright, and he wrote the villain into existence. But the real world is not so easy. Is Trump a villain? Some people think it's obvious, but plenty of people think he's a hero. You can put them in an imaginary basket labeled "hopped-up claque," but that's the sort of thinking that got him elected. If you want to rein him in, you'll need to put in a better performance. You have to reach those people. But you're playing to the crowd that's reading the NYT and that already loathes Trump. What have you got for the groundlings?
Reality is a lot less entertaining and a lot more frightening. There has to be a way to rein in real-life villainy in public life....
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128 comments:
DOW +27,000. GDP +3%. Virtually zero unemployment.
And, Trump just delivered on one of his most important campaign promises... refusing to intervene in pointless wars.
So, add peace to the plus sheet.
Trump has performed splendidly. This idiot, Lithgow, doesn't understand the job of the president. That job is not to be hip.
The press has disgraced itself over the past 2-1/2 years. First, with the Russia collusion hoax, and now covering for the Bidens' bribery and extortion schemes. My local newspaper, The Kingston Freeman, is headed toward bankruptcy and folding. The death of that Democratic Party propaganda rag will be a blessing for this region.
I don't understand how anybody who can enjoy literature can misread Trump so badly.
Maybe he was overeducated in literature, always guessing what the professor wanted to hear.
The papers are democratic for profit reasons. It would be worse to be right wing, profitwise. So it's dem or nothing.
Who cares?? Just another elite Democrat Actor spewing hate against the President that us deplorables were so ignorant to elect. Ho hum....BORING.
I remember watching a video, many years ago, of a theater critic saying:
Many of my colleagues say that Ronald Reagan was a lousy actor and is a lousy President. I disagree. I think Reagan was a wonderful actor!
I read Lithgow's book The Poet's Corner. It was quite good.
I, too, am descended from a Mayflower passenger. I would never use that as a first line in my bio. What a gasbag.
It's great he's a wonderful writer and he is a terrific actor, but I don't care about his political opinion.
One elitist reviewing another elitist's op-ed. Notice Ann never talks about policies concerning Trump. Boring.
Our wordsmith now has coined us as groundlings instead of deplorables. Isn't that so elite of her.
I felt the say way every time Barack O'Bumblefuck opened his maw. That was just as wrong, too.
Trump seems to be entertaining the press - and the people on the left (but I repeat myself) - quite well.
Didn't Lithgow star in that Shakespearean epic drama "Third Rock from the Sun"?
Trump is a villain...just as all our recent (and not so recent?) presidents have been. Trump is different from his predecessors largely in his style and self-presentation. Those who lash out at him with such passion make the mistake of assuming he is a radical change from Obama or Bush or Clinton, etc. Yet, under all these presidents, the military continued its cancerous growth, its budget swelling every year, and under each of these presidents the financial elites profited ever more, even as our nation's infrastructure as crumbled and wages have stagnated. In some respects, Trump is to be preferred to his predecessors, e.g., his withdrawal of troops from Syria, for which establishment Washington, Dems and Republicans alike, have assailed him. Elizabeth Warren said in the most recent Democratic Debates that "we should withdraw in a smart way," which is the same disingenuous rhetoric of all politicians who have no interest in actually withdrawing from a conflict.
I hope Trump loses the next election, if only because all bad presidents should be shut out of second terms by the electorate. I don't, however, think his successor will really be a significant improvement, unless he or she, too, is willing to endure the condemnation of establishment Washington and actually take steps to halt business as usual and implement true reforms. Obama said all the right words, but, in office, did all the wrong things, (i.e., he governed, as did his predecessors, for the corporate and financial elites, and against the rest of us). I don't have much confidence that any of the Dems running will really be willing--or able, even if they're willing--to effect true change that will benefit those Americans who are not part of the power and financial elite.
When will you come out for Trump, Althouse?
It's about time.
Elect one of the Democrat's identity politics candidates and it will be another four to eight years of the media kissing ass and calling all opposition racism and/or sexism. Dissent will once again be treason and obstruction.
If you want an accountable president, you've got to elect a straight white man.
Lithgow shows how out of touch he is by praising Late Nights Daily Show stooges as funny comedians. They are all SJWs who only criticize Democrats when their stupidity is impossible to ignore.
Trump is playing Trump. How can he be bad at that? He invented the character. Besides playing a character with his name, he also is the writer and director. Maybe it's director Trump that isn't doing that well.
Not being good at playing himself reminds me of the story of a celebrity that happened upon a contest to find that celebrity's lookalike. The celebrity entered, and lost. Once you're famous, people have an idea about you and expect you to conform to that idea.
If the Dem field were stronger, the Dem voters would be less unhinged.
They’re already beginning the stages of grief for Trump’s re-election.
Those paying attention are past denial and into anger.
I wish actors would focus on acting.
There has to be a way to rein in democracy. It sounded like a good idea, right? But in practice it's making people like John Lithgow anxious and unhappy. I mean, come on. The poor guy can hardly enjoy his fame and fortune because this Trump fellow is in the White House. How is that fair? And Lithgow's not the only one. A lot of rich and famous people are struggling with the results of elections these days. Something has to change. This is America, famous actors are unhappy and that's not who we are.
serious question?
Which 'entertainer' made more money (TELEVISION MONEY) from their entertaining?
John Lithgow?
Donald Trump?
There is (CAN BE) only One determination of one's value as an entertainer
That determination is: DID YOU ENTERTAIN?
and, the only handle that we can judge that with; is BOX OFFICE
Instead of eliminating the Electoral College we need to beef it up.
How about this? Only people John Lithgow would have over for dinner get to vote for President.
Trump is not playing a role, he is a role.
It would take a Shakespeare to write Trump, in the history play he deserves, however he ends up.
And it would take an extraordinary actor to play Trump, in that play.
But that play isn't ever going to be a patch on what we are seeing play out in reality. Its a pity that the greatest playwright of all gives us just glimpses of both the comedy and the drama.
Actors are a dime a dozen. When their egos are not being feed, they are usually self-loathing and not comfortable being themselves.
Assuming so many “identities” over a long thespian career might have the consequence of blurring the line between reality and fantasy.
Think of Ronald Coleman in “A Double Life””.
Role playing is fun, but don’t delude yourself and believe you are something you’re not.
Mr, Lithgow, shut up, sit down and memorize your lines for Act 2 scene 3 on Friday.
The director will tell you what to do...and think...if any thinking is required.
Actors! You gotta love ‘me.
I don't recall Lithgow having a show as popular as the Apprentice. But I know socialist love Lithgow because he was in "The Day After" sticking it to Ronald Reagan, who was supposed to get us into a nuclear war with Russia but beat them by just having a better economy. Oh my, that means Shouting Thomas has a point.
Coretta Scott King was John Lithgow's nanny? He is so Elite that his nanny is Elite. I'm predicting that bites him in the ass
The piece includes a drawing of Trump by Lithgow.
As with the stolen Dali, would that be, ahem, a lithgow-graph?
If you want to rein him in, you'll need to put in a better performance. You have to reach those people. What have you got for the groundlings?
Althouse is right there is a difference between using expressive talents to foist your own reality on people versus using those talents to persuade other people of theirs.
This kind of thing is probably tempting when you're an aging entertainer. He probably thinks it helps keep him relevant in the eyes of his peers and the public. In reality, I'm not so sure. Maybe a better approach would be for him to make a statement with his mad acting skills in the next Pitch Perfect sequel.
Lithgow has a funny way of squealing while he surrenders to Trump's Calvinist Andrew Jackson lead populism that first kicked his Coastal elites to the curb in 1828. OMG, He hates a show that has popular votes of hard core America first Patriots . The ones who dare to publicly worship a hard core God , while clinging to their military style rifles and believing in the truth in their Bibles.
The Globalists are all insane, you know. Why else would they plan the depopulation of the earth because of a Faked Science.
Fuck off Lithgow!
Remember in 2008 when "cravenly filling the hall for every rally with a hopped-up claque drawn from a hard-core base.." was viewed as a sign of brilliance and fitness for office by the LIthgows of the world. Supporters fainting, female fans swooning, school children singing Presidential praises..... of course, those were appropriately diverse, leftist approved rabid audiences.
Oh, I forgot about that guy.
Didn't even realize he was still alive.
Welp.....back to it, I guess.
"Instead of eliminating the Electoral College we need to beef it up."
You know the founders created the Electoral College to limit democracy, don't you? The purpose was to ensure the deplorables did not have too much actual influence over affairs of state. Do you think reducing democracy even more is a good thing?
That's probably one of the most shark-jumpingly inapt ritual denouncements of the Bad Orange Man yet.
He reads scripted lines like a panic-stricken schoolboy at a middle school assembly.
That's the opposite of my impression, but that statement reinforces my idea that Trump serves as a sort of scapegoat for the personal insecurities of these entertainers, the actors and scribblers, whose lives are based on seeking the approval of strangers.
It's all too predictable that the Althouse Hillbillies always condemn actors, entertainers, and musicians (and any other public figures they deem incompetent or unworthy) for offering their opinions as citizens on political affairs. You would deny them the freedom to participate in the public dialogue that you reserve for yourselves, though you do not provide evidence you are any more qualified to offer your opinions on politics than they, (or that they are any less qualified than you).
You're fascists.
Gee, another prima donna actor who thinks he's a philosopher because he's famous.
This is really going to get me to rethink!
You know the founders created the Electoral College to limit democracy, don't you? The purpose was to ensure the deplorables did not have too much actual influence over affairs of state. Do you think reducing democracy even more is a good thing?
Cookie,
The purpose of the electoral college was to limit the power of highly populous states to determine national elections. The United States used to be just that. Sovereign states united for the common good. The concept of federal government power over the states was a product of the US Civil War.
Your view of reducing democracy is somewhat different than that of the Founding Fathers who were concerned that direct voting would be overly influenced by the passions of the day. In other words, they had to deal with Fake News "journalism" as well.
Name a successful democracy, Cookie. We're a republic for a reason, you know. Mainly, to limit the tendency among democracies to devolve to mob rule.
"Robert Cook said...
It's all too predictable that the Althouse Hillbillies always condemn actors, entertainers, and musicians (and any other public figures they deem incompetent or unworthy) for offering their opinions as citizens on political affairs. You would deny them the freedom to participate in the public dialogue that you reserve for yourselves, though you do not provide evidence you are any more qualified to offer your opinions on politics than they, (or that they are any less qualified than you).
You're fascists."
You're the fascist. It's a left-wing ideology, after all.
The Proletariat are revolting.
Are you not entertained!
Bob Boyd said...
How about this? Only people John Lithgow would have over for dinner get to vote for President.
We've seen this already and it didn't go well.
I'm not a hillbilly, Cook.
I'm what's known as a snowbilly or snowback.
You culturally insensitive twat.
Cookie the Soviet Stalinist calling us hillbillies.
Come the revolution, Cookie will be a prison guard at the GULAGS.
Smile Robert. Look outside. It's shaping up to be another amusing day.
When my wife was 8 months pregnant, her co-workers gave her a gift certificate to a nice restaurant in Park Slope, Brooklyn. The night we chose to go, John Lithgow and his party beat us there and the restaurant (which didn't take reservations and had no waiting area) seated them by putting together every 2-top in the place. Which meant we could be seated.
Lithgow sat at the centre of his adoring crew, as he held forth like Jesus at the last supper. For 3 hours.
We waited, uncomfortably, on our feet. (Did I mention my wife was 8 months pregnant and he had taken every single 2-person table in the restaurant?) Eventually we asked for a refund on the gift certificate and were refused. Finally, we went to eat somewhere else and then came back for a second dinner.
The food was good, but the experience miserable and ever since then I have been unable to watch a John Lithgow show. Every time I hear his name, I think of my wife and I standing on the sidewalk while he sits at the head of this assembly of tables waving his arms, a glass of wine in his hand, while everyone around him laughed at whatever droll and oh so sophisticated story he was telling.
I despise him and his smug selfish attitude. John Lithgow doesn't like Trump? Great! Another reason to like Trump.
What have you got for the groundlings?
Contempt.
Come the revolution, Cookie will be a prison guard at the GULAGS.
That may be his dream, but it's much more likely he'll be one of the first up against the wall.
Robert Cook said...
It's all too predictable that the Althouse Hillbillies always condemn actors, entertainers, and musicians (and any other public figures they deem incompetent or unworthy) for offering their opinions as citizens on political affairs.
Hmmm, yet again I have to write one of those "you're smarter that" posts. Perhaps I'm wrong. Perhaps you aren't smarter than that.
Nobody here denies actors the right to their opinions. What we are objecting to is the leveraging of their fame to give themselves a bigger voice without accepting the greater responsibility that comes with it. They don't take the trouble to be better informed or have interesting unusual ideas. It's the same tired ignorant blather and we have to listen to it because they are famous.
Here's a hint: John Lithgow isn't famous for his political philosophizing. He's famous for his ability to pretend to be other people and managing his career well.
People leveraging their expertise to promote issues outside their expertise is a serious problem in public discourse.
Do you think reducing democracy even more is a good thing?
I do!
We can start with repealing the last three Progressive amendments.
"Hopped-up claque" sounds like an unfair insult, but if you look up the words you'll see the words are precisely right.
"Hopped up" is right, but "claque" isn't. Trump fans aren't paid to show up and they aren't sycophantic.
Lithgow sat at the centre of his adoring crew, as he held forth like Jesus at the last supper. For 3 hours.
So you're saying Lithgow cravenly filled the restaurant with a hopped-up claque?
Robert Cook,
"You would deny them the freedom to participate in the public dialogue that you reserve for yourselves, though you do not provide evidence you are any more qualified to offer your opinions on politics than they, (or that they are any less qualified than you)."
But - I must have missed it - who in this thread has urged denying entertainers the freedom to participate in public dialogue?
I just don't think their opinions carry any special weight because they're famous. Maybe the NYT published Lithgow because he's a fine writer and they liked what he had to say, not because he's an actor. On that basis I'll read him (and disagree with him).
Put another way, I care what Jeff "Skunk" Baxter has to say about missile defense because he studied it in some depth and came up with thought-provoking insights of his own. That he was also Steely Dan's guitarist is just kind of cool.
"He reads scripted lines"
But he obviously doesn't.
Even progs' contempt is a lie.
Blogger Robert Cook said...
It's all too predictable that the Althouse Hillbillies always condemn actors, entertainers, and musician
Cook is unusually entertaining today. I think he is seeing the future and it looks like a landslide. My mother-in-law worked in the movie business all her career. She referred to actors as "Talent" and it was not a compliment.
What probably angers Lithgow the most is that Trump's speeches are mostly extempore. He doesn't need an author to write the lines, as actors do.
And Shakespeare is understood to have altered some history to flatter the Tudors who were not only patrons but chopped an occasional head off.
All the presidents with the hopped-up claques
You'd better spin, better spin, out spin my pen
All the presidents with the hopped-up claques
You'd better spin, better spin, faster than my op-ed
Did not read Lithgow’s crap—but let me go way out on a limb and assume...
Another elitist dweeb hauled out by the media to criticize Trump on style points—that Trump’s fans explicitly rejected by electing him in the first place!
Still Not Getting It, day 1475.
Fancy CNN...
Robert Cook said...
It's all too predictable that the Althouse Hillbillies always condemn actors, entertainers, and musicians (and any other public figures they deem incompetent or unworthy) for offering their opinions as citizens on political affairs.
That's not why I do it. The reason I do it is because it's become clear that Hollywood and the entertainment business is filled with nothing but sex perverts and pedophiles so anyone that has had any success in that business is abusing children. I'm really not interested in these degenerates opinions. I don't support pedophilia so I do not support Hollywood, don't watch TV,don't watch movies
Groundlings. Nice touch.
"What we are objecting to is the leveraging of their fame to give themselves a bigger voice without accepting the greater responsibility that comes with it."
What "greater responsibility" do entertainers have with regard to making their opinions known? How do they "leverage their fame?" The public is free to dismiss their opinions without the least hesitation, as amply demonstrated here. Do you think anyone in the public who does not share their views will be swayed by them? If not, how do entertainers have a "bigger voice," in real terms?
Fern at 805 is right. The most notable thing about Trump is how unscripted he seems. Lithgow is just selecting pejoratives at random.
I cannot share Ann's admiration for his prose. Too many adjectives, too many adverbs. A good writer doesn’t preen that he just used claque “exactly” correctly. Especially when he hasn’t quite; a claque “exactly” is hired.
Splenetic. Let me emphasize how precisely correct is my usage!
Here's another difference between a play and real life. In a play, everyone in the audience can tell who the villain is.
Is that always so, Professor? I don't think Shylock is a villain but I know other people do. Possibly I'm wrong and just "can't tell," but maybe there's enough ambiguity that no one can. The same, I think, with Brutus. Tybalt's definitely a bad guy but I'm not sure he's *the* villain of Romeo & Juliet.
You attend more theater than I do, Professor; do you think it's always true that everyone in the audience knows, and agrees, on who the villain is?
Our Hostess nailed it. He was fondling himself before an audience he was certain wouldn’t report him to HR. He rubbed up a chubby and blew his load into a potted plant. As wrong as Cook usually is, you have to give him credit for rubbing up his chubbies where no one cares to watch. He could be shooting a wad over at Kos,but the floor is very sticky there with all the other leftie jizz.
There is a remarkable certainty among the lefties that they have a monopoly on virtue, and they speak fearlessly on the assumption that anyone within hearing agrees. I was recently on a long train ride with my daughter from Sydney to Perth. In the dining car, we were having a very pleasant conversation with a gent who is a physician in charge of a larger Sydney hospital. He mentioned in passing that we, no doubt, we’re eager to dispose of...or perhaps, depose....Trump. I smiled, and mentioned that I was a proud deplorable and am hopeful that Trump will get another term. The look on his face was a mix of bafflement and embarrassment as he quickly tucked away his shrinking chubby.
Let Lithgow come to this blog and see how long his boner lasts.
- Krumhorn
"Cook is unusually entertaining today. I think he is seeing the future and it looks like a landslide."
I don't foresee a landslide, but I do expect Trump will win a second term. How do think that affects me? I do not like him or think he is a good president, (though I applaud his belated willingness to actually withdraw troops from at least one of the foreign lands where we have illegally imposed ourselves), but I am skeptical that any of the Dems will be much (or any) better. I am resigned to the reality that our nation is in rapid, decadent decline, and the future is bleak. I do not expect any reprieve from that, no matter who is president. The military/corporate/finance complex is too powerful and entrenched to be stopped.
As to Lithgow: even granting every one of his specific criticisms I don't think he has demonstrated that Trump is a "bad" entertainer.
If the headline was "bad artist," fine, but it's just objectively, demonstrably true that Trump is a popular and in that sense successful entertainer. That's the case whether you're talking about the people who laugh with him or those who laugh at him, I doubt many would say he's boring.
Possibly Lithgow would want to distinguish between "good" and "popular," but it can't really be denied that Trump is successful at being entertaining, in that sense at least, so it's wrong to claim he's a "bad entertainer" without first defining away the common meaning of entertainment.
I can remember when hillbilly was a positive word.
Remember “Beverly Hillbillies?” The hillbillies were the good guys, recently arisen from poverty, Christian, devoted to family and contemptuous of the airs of Hollywood gentry.
Interesting, isn’t it, that the hip now condemn the hillbillies?
Only country music has stayed the course and continues to honor the culture of the hillbillies that, in fact, built this great country.
Trump can pack 20,000 people into a stadium and have them laughing and applauding for 90 minutes - without a script.
Lithgow needs a script and ghost-writer. Does anyone really think he wrote this? Its a "As told to" Op-ed. And Trump as "Villain" ? Not really. He's too funny and well-intentioned. He only counter-attacks. He wanted to work with the D's, and they refused. He wanted a good-natured back and forth with the press and they lied and smeared him. He's only a "villian" ot lithgow because to the D's every R with power is a bad guy, unless they're a cuck like Mittens or a "Maverick" like McCain.
Beverly Hillbillies is now on Youtube. The early episodes are hilarious. The show was No. 1 in the ratings for a couple years in the early 60's and you see why.
Lithgow has a Keillor vibe to him. I have a feeling he's about to be #MeToo-ed. After all, his ancestors stole America from murdered Indigians, had black slaves, burned witches, and forced Coretta Scott King to raise their privileged snot-nose brat.
The military/corporate/finance complex is too powerful and entrenched to be stopped.
Except for the ‘military’ part, I completely agree. The crony capitalism we endure is destructive and corrosive. You won’t get any argument from us hillbillies about that. However, a super strong military is as important as roads and bridges and inspected meat.
- Krumhorn
I liked the scene in The Accountant" when he got shot in the head.
The military/corporate/finance complex is too powerful and entrenched to be stopped.
Cook prefers the Ukraine during the Holodomor, when brother Stalin took over those fields of waving wheat and shipped them to NKVD granaries. The Kulaks, after all, were part of that capitalism that is the work of the devil. Right Cookie ?
Robert Cook said...how do entertainers have a "bigger voice," in real terms?
Right. Today we are discussing John Lithgow's NYT Op-Ed. Tomorrow we will discuss Cook's NYT Op-Ed. Mine will run Saturday.
Same same, right?
Lithgow is descended from Mayflower passenger and colonial governor William Bradford.
Shouldn’t he have moved back to the Olde World by now? I’m sure he feels guilty.
maybe it's really Emilio lizard, it seems like we crossed into the fourth dimension sometimes,
Raise your hand if you've been desperately waiting to hear what John Lithgow has to say about Trump. *eyeroll emoji*
Was Lithgow in The Accountant? I thought that was Angela Lansbury.
Cookie, instead of ragging about how you want me or others who don’t agree with what kind of system you want to live in, why don’t you actually move to the country closest to your beliefs?
You’re like the weird uncle from the 50s who goes on and on during the holidays about how great the USSR is yet never walked your talk. You choose to stay well fed, with mostly reliable electricity — Cali is getting shaky — and comfortable.
Be happy.
And it does not prevent you at all from posting here singing your new home’s praises.
HoodlumDoodlum
I think there is no question that Shakespeare’s audience saw Shylock as a villain and a butt. Imagine Trump on stage at a Democrat debate, giving a version of the big speech “Hath not a Trump eyes, ears, ...” What would the reaction be? Catcalls, and the confident feeling Trump was being sophistical. The audience would jeer.
indeed and that inspired the oun, which made some bad choices in the war, regardless the company protected the top leadership including bandera till 1958, when a kgb wetwork team took him out,
"Right. Today we are discussing John Lithgow's NYT Op-Ed. Tomorrow we will discuss Cook's NYT Op-Ed. Mine will run Saturday.
"Same same, right?"
Yes. I would not have known of Lithgow's op-ed if it hadn't been referenced here. But, even so, what greater effect does his opinion have on me or anyone else than opinions we hear from our friends and families and peers, or from others we may turn to for political opinions? Answer: None.
I’m a hillbilly descendant on my mother’s side. I can trace her family from hillbilly, to redneck dirt farmer, to lower middle class, to poor white trash (thanks dad), and finally to middle class. Oh, and I’m a Mayflower descendant on my mother’s side as well.
The electoral college exists as a way to give the people of each state to express their preference. The job is to preside over the states, you know, the States that are united. We don’t elect a President of the Americans - we get a say in electing President of the United States.
Robert Cook said...
"Right. Today we are discussing John Lithgow's NYT Op-Ed. Tomorrow we will discuss Cook's NYT Op-Ed. Mine will run Saturday.
"Same same, right?"
Yes. I would not have known of Lithgow's op-ed if it hadn't been referenced here. But, even so, what greater effect does his opinion have on me or anyone else than opinions we hear from our friends and families and peers, or from others we may turn to for political opinions? Answer: None.
So you're saying that John Lithgow's bullhorn is no bigger than yours? The NYT is the most influential newspaper in the world. Unless you have millions of friends and family you are being laughably obtuse.
Not being good at playing himself reminds me of the story of a celebrity that happened upon a contest to find that celebrity's lookalike. The celebrity entered, and lost.
@Mary Beth, IIRC it was Charlie Chaplin and the contest was who could best imitate his famous “tramp” character. I always thought the story was apocryphal, but perhaps not
First of all, watching entertainers from the Hollywood sewer pronounce that Donald Trump isn't sophisticated enough as an entertainer is risible. Completely asinine. These people have managed to ruin the brand value of goddamned Star Wars, to the point Jar Jar Binks has been forgiven!
Second of all, with the sheer weight of rape and pedo scandals descending from the Elite American side of Hollywood, the braying of actors should count for much, much less than anything the President says. I'm sure Robert Cook is Very Concerned, but from Larry Craig and Dennis Hastert we know that degenerate Republicans are practically Democrats themselves. It's not even surprising.
Thirdly, by this point moronic glibertarians are basically shilling for the big media companies, which buy their way to the front of Twitter and Youtube while demanding their opponents be silenced. Great parody meme? Put a grossly illegal copyright claim on it. Honestly, though, once we yank Youtube and Facebook from the hands of Grabby Americans, you'll see a very quick change. Liberals need monolithic corporations telling them what to do, and something like Fox News proved a mortal threat to that conformity before its billionaire masters decided to cuck. A President who can break that media wall by seizing a TV channel will turn it into the most popular station in the country- and that's without considering Donald Trump's specific gift for attracting attention.
Fullbrights don't produce like they used to.
Robert Cook said, "You know the founders created the Electoral College to limit democracy, don't you? The purpose was to ensure the deplorables did not have too much actual influence over affairs of state."
I'm pretty sure you are wrong about that, Robert, although I don't know for certain.
My guess is that far and away the main reason for the Electoral College was to ensure that someone could not be elected without broad-based support. The original 13 states had quite different population sizes, and some were fairly small. I'm sure the representatives of the different states at the Constitutional Convention could easily imagine a scenario where someone just focused on the biggest states, like for instance New York, and ignored the interests of the rest of the country, and won on that basis.
One can't win the presidential election without having almost the majority of the votes cast, and one can't win it without having the majority of the votes in most of the states -- which is, of course, the whole intent of the Electoral College.
I think it's actually a very good idea, and there many countries around the world that would benefit from a similar mechanism. A common problem in many country is too much focus on the center combined with neglect of much of the rest. The Electoral College restrains that somewhat.
And of course the Electoral College is a big barrier for those who 'win' through fraudulent votes. I believe there was massive vote fraud in the most recent California election, for instance. But the left, they think that's their right.
The guy sells soup.
More mindless ad hominem attacks from the Hollywood hive mind.
Do any of these intellectual pygmies have anything of substance to say?
And to the NYT: Alright already! We get it! The entertainment elitists have TDS - acquired in 2016.
Robert Cook: "You know the founders created the Electoral College to limit democracy, don't you? The purpose was to ensure the deplorables did not have too much actual influence over affairs of state."
False.
The Founders knew from studying history and their profound understanding of human nature, that direct democracy leads to tyranny. Thus, the founders created the most brilliant balancing of power amongst different branches along with controls to ensure that no one region or state could dominate the other parts.
And that's why the marxists like Cookie know they must destroy the constitution to get to their "utopia", which in greek is literally translated as "no place".
"no place", because utopia's are impossible and when pursued by the left always, ALWAYS, ends in mass graves.
But again, only every single time anywhere it is tried in the world.
Lithgow has a movie coming out this December called “Bombshell,” which is about the sexual harassment perpetuated by the late Roger Ailes on his female talent at Fox. But Ronan Farrow’s book just ripped the lid off NBC’s vastly worse rape culture at NBC, including sordid activities by Matt Lauer, Andy Lack, and Noah Oppenheim. Now we find out that MSNBC head Phil Griffin waved around a printed page bearing a zoomed-in image” of Maria Menounos’ vagina (yes, Althouse, I presume they meant “vulva”) at a staff meeting. Anyway, Ailes must seem like small potatoes next to NBC and MSNBC, so Lithgow is pissed and taking it out on Trump and us deplorables who voted for him.
"wages have stagnated"
Bullshit.
"Althouse Hillbillies"
Egad, what a little cunt.
Cook (8:10): “It's all too predictable that the Althouse Hillbillies always....” The true Cook, the elitist, shows up with his foot in his mouth, as usual.
It is not fascistic to observe that entertainment blowhards take advantage of their status to demonstrate their TDS and their inability to discuss, perhaps to recognize, important issues beyond the Democrat script. People who take to the public podium invite and deserve criticism. It is not fascistic to criticize them or to verbalize a wish that they would STFU. We deny them nothing by doing so.
Cook betrays his own fascist underpinnings by conflating mere speech with conduct, i.e., criticizing with denying rights, speaking with injuring, etc. This is the method by which leftists seek to destroy First Amendment freedom of speech.
Impressively elite? One might even say, "preening". Personally, I think anyone who feels the need to evoke Mayflower heritage is a phony with feelings of inadequacy. John, pay attention to those voices. The inadequacy is REAL. Just compare your earnings in the entertainment world, or your total on-screen hours, to Trump's for confirmation.
It's all too predictable that the Althouse Hillbillies always condemn actors, entertainers, and musicians (and any other public figures they deem incompetent or unworthy) for offering their opinions as citizens on political affairs. You would deny them the freedom to participate in the public dialogue that you reserve for yourselves, though you do not provide evidence you are any more qualified to offer your opinions on politics than they, (or that they are any less qualified than you).
You're fascists.
It never occurred to me before that Cook was a bad-faith poster with multiple sock puppets but this asinine post forces me to reconsider. Hillbillies? Fascists? GFY
Richard Lithgow is a pompous git and that is the character that he plays in every role and he never varies. So he's good at it. I give him that, he's a superbly pompous git.
"So you're saying that John Lithgow's bullhorn is no bigger than yours? The NYT is the most influential newspaper in the world. Unless you have millions of friends and family you are being laughably obtuse."
No. I'm saying that, however big Lithgow's bullhorn, he has no more influence on people's opinion than you or I. He is preaching to the choir. No one who likes Trump will read his op-ed and change their mind just because a celebrity has criticized Trump. His opinion makes no difference to the public. In short, why does anyone care or take offense at what he says?
"Cookie, instead of ragging about how you want me or others who don’t agree with what kind of system you want to live in, why don’t you actually move to the country closest to your beliefs?"
Not as easily done as said.
"You’re like the weird uncle from the 50s who goes on and on during the holidays about how great the USSR is yet never walked your talk. You choose to stay well fed, with mostly reliable electricity — Cali is getting shaky — and comfortable."
I've never sung the praises of the (defunct) USSR (or of modern day Russia) and I would not want to live there. I'm also not advocating the US become like the USSR.
mandrewa said...
Robert Cook said, "You know the founders created the Electoral College to limit democracy, don't you? The purpose was to ensure the deplorables did not have too much actual influence over affairs of state."
I'm pretty sure you are wrong about that, Robert, although I don't know for certain.
Cook does not know about the Connecticut Compromise, that allowed the Constitution to be ratified. They didn't have that in the Soviet Union.
On May 29, 1787, Edmund Randolph of the Virginia delegation proposed the creation of a bicameral legislature. Under his proposal, membership in both houses would be allocated to each state proportional to its population; however, candidates for the lower house would be nominated and elected by the people of each state. Candidates for the upper house would be nominated by the state legislatures of each state and then elected by the members of the lower house. This proposal was known as the Virginia Plan.
Less populous states like Delaware were afraid that such an arrangement would result in their voices and interests being drowned out by the larger states. Many delegates also felt that the Convention did not have the authority to completely scrap the Articles of Confederation,[1] as the Virginia Plan would have.[2] In response, on June 15, 1787, William Paterson of the New Jersey delegation proposed a legislature consisting of a single house. Each state was to have equal representation in this body, regardless of population. The New Jersey Plan, as it was called, would have left the Articles of Confederation in place, but would have amended them to somewhat increase Congress's powers
The Electoral College followed this plan.
Lithgow has a movie coming out this December called “Bombshell,” which is about the sexual harassment perpetuated by the late Roger Ailes on his female talent at Fox.
Explains a lot.
I had heard about this but not about Lithgow being involved. Another box office turd.
"These are the antics of a showman, not a statesman...."
Perhaps so, but then, all Lithgow and many others like him wants to focus on is antics. Maybe every so often it might be nice to address matters of substance. Why not, just for a change of pace, deal with that and forget the antics?
Here's some of the Trumpian substance: rolling back the regulatory state, revising the tax code, revving up the economy, generating record-low unemployment for African-Americans and Hispanics, putting America First! at the center of his foreign policy, pressing American's trading partners for a better deal, pushing back against PC craziness and media bias, rejecting the self-flagellation that goes by the name of 'climate change', appointment of many textualist judges, etc., etc. Add your own to that list of Trump's hit parade.
No one has to agree with any of Trump's substantive agenda and many will find parts or all of it unwise or worse. But it would be nice if those with the impressive resumes took it seriously and dealt with that, rather than going on endlessly about 'the shlub from Queens with bad manners and worse hair.' Yes, we know how socially superior you all are, and how you have much better taste -- but still, Trump is not trying to be the editor of GQ or Vanity Fair. So enough already.
And while they're at it, they might try to explain why any sane person should prefer what's on offer as the alternative.
Just an idea, to get past the same old-same old and mix things up a little.
Seriously, Cookie? No wonder why you’re messed up,
Massive vote fraud is one of the oldest Dem traditions; it's in their DNA and honest ones gloat about it.
The Electoral College was indeed part of a package of limits on pure democracy, just like the original provision that senators were chosen by state legislatures, not popular vote--the intent being to have the Senate represent both itself as body but also the states as institutions and partners in Federalism.
FWIW one of my ancestors was, it is said, GW's neighbor at Mt. Vernon, but that's as far back as we know.
Narr
As upgefuckt as our system can get, pure majoritarianism can make it worse.
Fulbright Scholarship and Rhodes Scholarship >>>> don't they choose/self-select for true-believers
Cookie is just a dishonest Stalinist schmuck.
Ahistoric as well.
He likes to pretend that the Nazi's weren't socialists.... he knows, of course, that they were socialists, but admitting such undermines his 'arguments' so he manufactures ideas like - Nazis can't be socialists because they killed socialists -
Leon Trotsky hasn't responded to my request for his perspective on this viewpoint.
whitney said...
Coretta Scott King was John Lithgow's nanny? He is so Elite that his nanny is Elite. I'm predicting that bites him in the ass
__________________
Is that almost equal to saying MLK was his house-nigger?
He reads scripted lines like a panic-stricken schoolboy at a middle school assembly.
____________
I'm wondering if "He" refers to Lithgow himself - if the Op-Ed isn't his SOS with blinking eyes ??
What is with Mayflower descent and pride about it?
What I read about them makes clear they were craven MONARCHISTS (Buwaya probably approves? but the craven part ?)
Ken B said...
I think there is no question that Shakespeare’s audience saw Shylock as a villain and a butt.
That's almost certainly correct regarding audiences in 1605 (and a testament to Shakespeare's genius that'd he'd still write that that character in such a nuanced and deep way), but my point is that I, as an audience member now, don't agree Shylock is the villain and that makes me question Professor Althouse's assertion that everyone can tell who the villain is.
I leave open the possibility that I'm too dim to count!
Yes, and furthermore that statement of Lithgow's undercuts the premise/headline that Trump is a bad entertainer/isn't entertaining--showmen are by definition entertainers and Trump managed, as a showman, to obtain the office of President! I'm not sure how you can logically say "he's only a showman and as a showman got elected President, but he's not successful as a showman/entertainer." Seems, you know, like success!
Not artistically gifted, not moving, or meaningful, or didactic, or aesthetically pleasing, or any other measure of an entertainer? Sure, maybe; those are certainly defensible criticisms of Trump as a person or a product. The one thing you really *can't* say is that he hasn't been successful!
"Hopped-up claque" sounds like an unfair insult, but if you look up the words you'll see the words are precisely right.
--
Actually, most listed definitions of claque refer to paid applauders..though fewer do include admirer or sycophant.
So not so precise..and rare enough of a word that Lithgow employs to make himself look edumacated.
Exit pursued by Bigfoot.
More like HALF-bright scholar, rite!
I've never sung the praises of the (defunct) USSR (or of modern day Russia) and I would not want to live there. I'm also not advocating the US become like the USSR.
I didn’t say you were. I said there has to be other countries which suit you better. You’re not happy here.
You dream of utopia. You’re going to wake up in Lord Of the Flies.
Your direct democracy means Flyover Me will be ruled by the lunatic coasties.
At this point in time, Cali can’t manage their water, trees and electricity and they’re turning their citizens into prey.
NY will start to let some of their citizens freeze due to their shortsightedness.
As a wise man once said, shithole.
Now I’m reading about this UN 21/30 bullshit and they’re trying to control the means of food production. We know what happens then.
If that crap keeps up it looks like America will literally be feeding and fueling the world.
NIW it’s realky starting to gel/make sense why the yellow vests protested. Denmark farmers are now in line.
"What have you got for the groundlings?"
Contempt, obviously!
he looks nothing like ailes, wasn't he the first transgender or something in world according to garp, he did play a nasty ex intel fellow turned bankrobber in cliffhanger, he was some sort of master criminal in that denzel Washington film, back in the 80s,
This:
"He reads scripted lines like a panic-stricken schoolboy at a middle school assembly."
Should've been this:
"He reads scripted lines like a panic-stricken pupil at a middle school assembly."
I didn't like hearing school and school.
"Cookie is just a dishonest Stalinist schmuck.
Ahistoric as well."
Wrong. Either you're ignorant or lying.
"He likes to pretend that the Nazi's weren't socialists.... he knows, of course, that they were socialists, but admitting such undermines his 'arguments' so he manufactures ideas like - Nazis can't be socialists because they killed socialists -"
No pretense, as I know no such thing. When I hear people say the Nazis were socialists I know they are either ignorant or "dishonest" and "ahistoric." I see it as a ploy by extreme right-wingers to cleanse themselves of any possible connection to fascist tendencies.
You can think I am incorrect, but you are wrong (or lying) to suggest I believe other than what I say, (on this or any subject).
Always a puppet, a poor player, that struts and frets his hour upon the stage, but never the big giant head.
Fulbright scholar? Ivy league? Mayflower ancestry? It would seem Lithgow is whiteness manifest.
Blogger narciso said...
maybe it's really Emilio lizard, it seems like we crossed into the fourth dimension sometimes,
IIRC, it was Emilio Lizardo, and it was the 8th dimension.
But, good Buckaroo Banzai reference.
To John Lithgow I say, “Laugh while you can, monkey boy!”
Like a lot of people who will vote to re-elect Trump next year, I have quite a few objections to some of his tweets and informal public statements, but most of us are mature enough to set these objections aside when deciding whether to vote for Trump over Warren (or whichever of the gang may manage to push her off the stage at the Convention). Lithgow whines that is "dispiriting to watch the wretched excesses of Mr. Trump’s slapstick presidency", whereas people who live in the real world and not on the stage pay attention to lowered taxes and more jobs.
BTW, I too am a descendant of a Mayflower passenger -- of five of them in fact. Although none of them was Governor of the Plymouth Colony, one was the servant (probably an indentured servant) of Deacon John Carver, the first governor of the colony, who died shortly after the end of its disasterous first winter. I think any Democrat should recognize that being descended from an indentured servant gives me more bragging rights than the descendant of a Governor.
Indeed, Godfather, going by memory, I view trump as a blunt instrument, sometimes unnecessarily so,
If the point is to remember the extraordinarily well played villains created by John Lithgow, hear haer: Footloosem Blow Out and Raising Cain are good places to start. I'd suggest that other dePalama movie but three is exhausting, look it up and substitute for either of the other two. Terms of Endearment, stole a few scenes, and for those of you bored with who we do transgender in the near 2020s his bit in World According to Garp is the tits.
Debra Winger's sex symbol moment may be a data point that acting convincingly and strong personality conveyed on film may be a bigger factor in popularity than rhhardin's theory of actress replaceability can account for. She never struck me as much to look at but she's nonetheless memorable for weird glimpses of humanity.
Talented actor, he was some sort of Air Corps staff puke in the awful "Memphis Belle" IIRC.
Narr
Funny in 3rd Rock
John Lithgow was splendid in Harry and the Hndersons and Shrek but disappointed in The Accountant. Maybe it was over his head.
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