September 11, 2019
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251 comments:
1 – 200 of 251 Newer› Newest»What kind of culture, country and religion spawns and grows such evil?
You know the answer.
It still all feels kind of fresh and raw to me. Imagine how it feels to those who lost someone that day.
All of the 9/11 terrorists are burning in hell, but I hope Atta burns a little hotter. He is next level evil.
The day history restarted.
The planners of 9/11 have been executed or are soon to be arrested.
‘18 years have passed since airplanes took aim and brought down the World Trade Center.’
A tweet this morning from the NYT. No mention of terrorism or terrorists. Those silly airplanes just decided to kick it up a notch, I guess.
Out on a walk Monday, I passed a small plaque at the foot of a gazebo at the edge of downtown Belmont, MA, commemorating the three Belmont residents who were passengers on the 9/11 airplanes.
R.I.P.
"The Arab is little more than an eater up of other men's produce; he is a destroyer rather than a creator, and he is unprolific."
what are you talking about? What? some people did something ?
politifact grudging admits that Ilhan DID say this; BUT! makes it Clear that you need to take it in the "full context"
Interestingly, they just Quote her entire speech (which is tedious to read), but NEVER says, Why you need the 'full context' (having slogged Through the 'full context', i couldn't tell you either)
Even MORE interestingly, the bulwark has an article about ilhan's statement, which says;
Yes, Ilhan DID say that; And it WAS bad: But NOT NEARLY AS BAD as what Republican Steve King said.
. Have other representatives—Republican Steve King comes to mind—said terrible things? Absolutely. But that does not excuse her behavior.
It Really makes you wonder, what sort of messed up mind would think that the Bulwark is anything besides a front for the ultra left?
My son served three tours in the USMC and came back from Afghanistan with PTSD, so it's personal in my family, but not so much as for the families who lost people that day or in the aftermath. The passengers who fought back on Flight 93 are the ones I prefer to think of from that day - there is something quintessentially American about them that I love deeply and do not see in other cultures. But the indelible images are the people leaping to their death from the Towers. Any teaching of the events of that day must include that.
Fernandistein said...
"The Arab is little more than an eater up of other men's produce; he is a destroyer rather than a creator, and he is unprolific."
************
Amen, bro.
The writer V.S. Naipaul noted years ago the complete disconnect in the Arab mind between its reliance on and love of western technology, and an understanding of the precepts and values of the cultures that created it.
How many cars are built in Arab countries? How many airplanes, TVs, computers?
Also, check out sometime the number of patents granted to people in the Arab world. Pathetically small.
Technologically, they're still wiping themselves with the hems of their robes.
Not that they don't actually do that in real life.
The attack's elegance was exceeded only by its evil.
Some people did something.
It's also interesting that the author of Fernandistein's quote was none other than Francis Galton, an early advocate of eugenics (among many other interests and accomplishments).
So he had some axes to grind.
I haven't forgotten 9/11. But I have moved on. I was happy to hear Trump was working to negotiate a troop withdrawal. Actually, I was hoping that Obama would get it done.
And Palestinians danced in the streets when the towers fell. Let us never forget that, either.
I was there, only 2 miles away with a panoramic view of the madness from my office. I can't think of anything to say about it that makes sense or encompasses the horror of that day.
One of my co-worker's father was the manager of the television transmitter on one of the towers. I held her hand as we watched the tower collapse. Her father's body was never recovered.
From what I understand about Islam, Atta isn't burning in hell, but fucking 72 virgins. Some of those virgins could be about 9 years old. How fucking sick is that?
NY has a mandatory minute of silence in schools, if I heard that right. It's good to hear that the students don't give a shit at least.
I moved on right away, myself.
The subway stop where I disembarked for work was blocks away from the WTC. The pile of rubble burned and smoldered for two months. I could smell the burning flesh.
I would like to extend my best wishes to all, even the haters and losers, on this special date, September 11th.
The Pentagon doesn’t do body counts after Vietnam, but I sure would like to see a number. Let’s say it is 250,000. Now some would say that killing only begets more killing. I say these people are so fucking stupid that they don’t know they are beaten and never can win. That attitude defines a failed and idiotic society.
No bigger haters and losers then Never Trumpers.
We will never forget anything.
wholelottasplainin' said...The writer V.S. Naipaul noted years ago the complete disconnect in the Arab mind between its reliance on and love of western technology, and an understanding of the precepts and values of the cultures that created it.
I love the concept Naipal discusses of the world bazaar. A thousand years ago, people fought with swords. Nobody wondered where the swords came from, they came from the bazaar. If you needed one, you went to the bazaar and bought one. Today fighting happens with AK-47s and computers, and trucks, and planes. Nobody wonders where they come from, they come from the store. If you need one, you go to the store and buy it.
I love the world bazaar for the same reason I love the cargo cult--when you are first introduced to the idea, it seems so outlandish that it can't be true, no one could possibly think that way. But once you become aware of it, you see cargo cult and world bazaar thinking everywhere you look.
I remember going in that morning to a defense contractor where we had some equipment running. The president of that little company told me he was certain we were going to respond with nukes.
You might think it's not possible, but as I walked to work from the subway in those months after the attack, I heard the voices of the dying screaming and crying in the wind.
Chuck said...
I would like to extend my best wishes to all, even the haters and losers, on this special date, September 11th.
Jesus, Chuck. If you can't hide the shitty attitude, not even for a few moments, on a day like this, then you have some serious soul searching to do.
First time I have ever responded to Chuck. Yes, Chuck. I hate those people who did something on 9-11. The ones who planned, financed and executed the hijackings. And speaking of losers, how about the fuckheads on Flight 93 who couldn’t even hit their target? Todd Beamer and the other American heroes won the cockpit and defeated them.
Let’s roll.
On a personal note:
Requiescat in pace Jill S, Ben G, Connie L, David S, and Gene O.
May their murderers burn in hell.
The great Christian prayer for the dead and dying.
I am reading “Fall and Rise The Story of 911”. Highly recommended.
There was a touch of luck or destiny, an alert customs inspector, noted one of those who would try to join the hijackers mohammed manea al quahtani, and blocked him from meeting atta, this is who durbin cried crocodile tears for
Chuck said...I would like to extend my best wishes to all, even the haters and losers , on this special date, September 11th.
What a tool to insult others in the guise of best wishes. But typical from someone who spent years trying to ruin the blog and has yet to make a positive contribution at any point.
I am a Christian. I refuse to be consumed by the desire for vengeance.
Fernandistein said...
"The Arab is little more than an eater up of other men's produce; he is a destroyer rather than a creator, and he is unprolific."
In the Gulf Arab countries it was definitely difficult finding an Arab who was willing to lift a finger to do anything for himself. Their enormous kids certainly lift a lot of twinkies to their mouths.
Lulz!
Chuck
There is something seriously wrong with you.
Chuck, that's a new low, even for you. You need help.
I went to basic training at Fort Leonard Wood in 1966, and was assigned to the 2nd platoon of C-3-3. One of the people in my platoon by the name of "Gary Edward Koecheler died tragically at Two World Trade Center on Sept 11 2001."
Oh I could never have imagined this going so well.
Somebody must have figured this out. But they aren't saying.
Listening to the news coverage this morning I'm struck by how hard reporters try to avoid talking about those responsible and their motives. Most are simply going with "hijackers" with no further explanation. If you didn't know history, you would have no idea what 9/11 was all about.
On a related note, I see the NYT already beclowned itself with the "airplanes took aim" tweet. At least they had the sense to delete it.
I really don't want to be the guy to give this away.
I've identified all the losers and haters too. My prayers go out to them. (sarc)
(Some people reveal their true selves willingly)
I saw Atta and a few of the other pig fuckers at the shopping mall across the street from their motel, of all places. Atta had on a navy blazer and penny loafers and was loitering with the others who looked much younger than him and had on ill fitting gym shorts and flip flops. I happened to accidentally end up walking amongst them yet none of them looked my way. Nothing strange about that, right? There's usually a local cop inside and I quickly went to look but he wasn't there and they were gone by the time I came out. No cell phone in those days. I'm still haunted I didn't figure out how to do more. I know there were others who did do more and failed, too. The flight instructor. The guy at their hotel...
Given the current state of our immigration policy and our legal system and our policing policies we are likely more vulnerable now than then. I hope our intel it better and its just that civilians can't see it...
I knew immediately, Chuck. Total incel move on your part. Bad faith commenting at its worst.
My apologies. I deleted my comment aimed at the creep.
I shall strive to do better.
Beasts of England said...
I knew immediately, Chuck. Total incel move on your part. Bad faith commenting at its worst.
Ha ha! But it was "a new low..." Yeah, it was a new low at the time. But there have been all kinds of new lows since.
The sentence demonstrated that there was "something seriously wrong..." I kind of agree. There is something seriously wrong with anyone who would have written that on a previous 9/11 anniversary. That much is true.
"What a tool to insult others in the guise of best wishes." Yes, I agree with that, too.
Hahahaha.
Time for me to get out of Althouse. I feel sick. The creep has ruined a beautiful place.
tim maguire said...
"Chuck said...
I would like to extend my best wishes to all, even the haters and losers, on this special date, September 11th."
Jesus, Chuck. If you can't hide the shitty attitude, not even for a few moments, on a day like this, then you have some serious soul searching to do.
Ooooh, Tim. I think you win today's class.
What if the soul-searcher looks, and sees no soul whatsoever? Then what? I don't think "soul-searching" ever came into it before, during or after the creation of that sentence.
Ick.
Bye.
Annie C. said...
Time for me to get out of Althouse. I feel sick. The creep has ruined a beautiful place.
I would beg you to please hang around for a while longer until there is a bit more explanatory commentary.
A very good little book about 9/11 is "Touching History," written by an airline pilot and a minute by minute explanation of what happened that day. She interviewed all the air traffic controllers and some other aircrews. In on case, the national grounding stopped a final hijacking as four Arab men in first class in a flight in Detroit, got 0ff with other passengers and vanished. Weapons and al Qeada literature were found in their abandoned hand luggage. Flight 93 could be stopped by the passengers because it was late.
Another good book, titled "Jawbreaker, " tells the story of the SF attack on Afghanistan and how the arrival of the "Big Army" turned it into the mess it is today.
Dakota Meyers' book, "Into the Fire", tells the story of one such screwup by the Army and why the war has been a failure.
The Muslim Timeline to subject the world to the cruelties of Islam continues.
Go away, Chuck. Not today.
’Time for me to get out of Althouse. I feel sick. The creep has ruined a beautiful place.’
I have to agree. I’ve read here for almost a decade, but only commented for the last few months. I remember plenty of vile comments from the disturbed cuck in question, but this is particularly egregious.
Not everything has to be about Trump all the time...
You're despicable and only interested in scoring points. No one will appreciate your explanation because it only amounts to, "he did it first!"
Grow up.
I remember that dreadful morning like Yesterday. I remember at the time thinking, is this just the beginning? We didn't know Osama Bin Ladin, and didn't know how powerful Al Queda was.
God Bless the NYPD and NYFD and all the First Responders. We will never forget.
A picture of trump holding hands with the Taliban leader Mawlawi superimposed on the WTC crashing down would have been an effective campaign tool for the dems.
It is not reasonable to attack Chuck here without also acknowledging the problems with the original source of the quote. It is kind of a dick move by Chuck, but nothing compared to the original statement, which was scraping the absolute bottom of the barrel of narcissistic nihilism.
ST, "I am a Christian. I refuse to be consumed by the desire for vengeance."
Not vengeance, but justice; self-preservation against the jihadists.
"on the WTC crashing down would have been an effective campaign tool for the dems.”
Except those images have been banned by Democrats. But that’s the kind of dishonesty we expect from you guys. So I am sure it would have been “effective” in juicing up the hate hormones in the people who already hate Trump.
Chuck should be beaten with the jawbone of an ass. His, preferably.
Dear Ms. Althouse, please... I beg of you...
Lileks has some intense footage -
"2. If you go to YouTube and type in 9/11, you get about 20 stories before you get to the actual event. I suppose that’s because the others relate to recent news, but you’d think the footage of the day would be of paramount importance.
Most of the complete collections of footage appear to be from Russian channels."
My conspiracy theory about this is that the U.S. MSM doesn't want people to get all wee-weed-up.
The difference is that when Trump said it, the haters and losers he was referring to were in fact people just like Chuck.
And since we know Chuck... we can't really blame him.
ARM, you seem to think that this is news to the Atlhouse community. It's not. He doesn't try to hide it unlike most politicians and lowlifes. Unlike people who say they're better than that but end up being more vile in order to show us "the truth."
No better example of we had to destroy the village in order to save it. It's gross.
Who had "Fewer than 25" in the How Many Comments Until Chuck Ruins A 911 Commemorative Post?
Please collect your prize.
Thank God for Todd Beamer and the other guys on Flight 93 for taking that plane down.
He grew up here in Wheaton, IL where I have lived almost 20 years now, and his name is on the student center building at Wheaton College which I often ride past on my bike. His son is on the football team.
I love being reminded of all these connections on a semi-regular basis, as part of just living my life.
Charles doughty who visited the kingdom in the brief interregnum between wahhabi kingdoms, identofied the likes of the kahtan tribe of thar fellow mentioned above, they were known as cannibals, the worst sort. He wasnt published for another 50 years.
I don't see the problem with Chuck's comment. A little ineffective as it's meant to imply something apparently, but there's not enough information to say what it is.
Reverence for the day is misguided, however. It's entertaining yourself at the expense of somebody else's misfortune.
Pearl Harbor was about incentivizing, not remembering. No sadz. It was the horrible immoral sub-human Japs and the need to wipe them out.
Not today's culture. Victim is power.
My suggestion at the time was search all passengers for weapons and if they don't have one, give them one.
They went the opposite way.
A word-for-word, punctuation-perfect quote of Trump. Without so much as a word of commentary from me with it. And this was the reaction.
In the spirit of Trump’s commentary on Pence’s trip to Poland for the anniversary of the German invasion, I just want to congratulate everybody on this September 11th.
Annie C. said...Time for me to get out of Althouse. I feel sick. The creep has ruined a beautiful place.
I would hang around a watch what Chuck does with the rope Althouse gives him. Her recent banning of Fen gives her a special responsibility here, I think. I agree otherwise.
Not everything has to be about Trump all the time...
You're despicable and only interested in scoring points. No one will appreciate your explanation because it only amounts to, "he did it first!"
Grow up.
I completely agree with Birches. Trying to score points is juvenile and distracting. You're not convincing anyone of anything.
Blogger Qwinn said...
The difference is that when Trump said it, the haters and losers he was referring to were in fact people just like Chuck.
Lmfao.
The Althouse haters and losers didn’t even realize that I was quoting Trump.”
The sight of congress holding little american flags and singing god bless america shows the idiocy of the entertainment culture. The fight for the women's vote.
Apparently Chuck thinks subordinating 9-11 to support his Trump hatred means he has taken the high road. So his highest road is lower than most people can conceive.
All cultures are equal. Not really.
It still hurts to look at those photos.
Many of us recognized what you were doing Chuck. Your true purpose makes it more, not less, despicable.
I loved "7-11 never forget" with a pic of a burning of convenience store. You can google image it. It may have been mocking some pol or other who mis-spoke but I've forgotten what or who.
Of course we apprehended the planners financiers and even some footsoldiers for the second wave, of course they are the victims.
Everybody's really mad at Chuck and I still don't see why. Am I too logical?
rhhardin said...The sight of congress holding little american flags and singing god bless america shows the idiocy of the entertainment culture. The fight for the women's vote.
I profoundly disagree with two tenets which you hold: The first is your disdain for patents and intellectual property; the second is your Menckien disdain for patriotism. Other than that, we agree on most things. I'd like to hang around and continue, but it's time to mount the bike saddle for work.
Galton was correct then and correct now.
Narr
Ecrasez l'infame
Chuck:
That's the ultimate out of context and gotcha quote and stunt by you.
You're a total shithead and don't even realize how fucked up you are.
If I want to arm all passengers, that's perhaps what patriotism ought to look like.
I'm not big on pointless virtue signalling.
It seems like James O’Keefe is the only person who really understands me these days.
1. The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.
2. He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.
3. He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.
4. Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
5. Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.
6. Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.
Now do we give medals and promotion to mitchell and jensen, who obtained info critical to stop the next wave, no they try to bankrupt them, put their families in danger
My only personal connection with 9/11 is that I was chatting on-line with my sister, as I did every morning over coffee, when it happened. She had the TV on and told me "a plane has hit the WTC." I assumed it was probably some sort of news helicopter or something equally mundane. Obviously, I soon learned I was wrong.
My sister is gone now, but that is my primary memory of the day, learning of it from my older sister, who had just recently learned how to use IM.
That is a real place, the valley of gehenna, i wonder if the writer saw such a vision, far in the future
Chuck, you're too elliptic for me, probably because you misread Trump and so I can't follow the implications you want.
Blogger Chuck said..."It seems like James O’Keefe is the only person who really understands me these days."
Don't flatter yourself. We understand you quite well.
1) I have a close friend who worked at a company in Cleveland at the time. His boss called everyone in to a conference room after the 2nd plane hit the WTC. After he explained what had happened, an employee actually let out a whoop and pumped his fist into the air. He was a Muslim. The boss fired him instantly and he was escorted off the property. Don't tell me that some American Muslims didn't celebrate.
2) For a moving personal reflection over lost friends, this is worth reading. If you're a fan of Cheers or Frasier, it hits home.
http://kenlevine.blogspot.com/2019/09/9-11-and-david-and-lynn-angell.html?m=1
3) @Michael K, I never heard that before, about the Detroit plane. Could you say more? Or refer to a good source? (Not doubting you, just interested.)
As Michael K notes, Flight 93 stopped by heroes largely because it leaves Newark 42 minutes late. It leaves on time or 10 minutes late and it crashes into the U.S. Capital (or WH, my guess is that the Capital was the target). Also it seems to turn much later than others (probably because pilots on alert). If it takes off on time/turns on time it crashes into Capital before all other planes hit their targets. Makes you wonder whether the plan was for 93 to have the most dramatic impact. Flying over the mall from the east over the Jefferson and Washington monuments straight into the capital without any obstructions stopping it, with about 1,000 tourists recording it live. Imagine that.
Sorry for the typos, i try not to let the outrage overwhelm me, so i wax analytical, at least half of the hijackers lived in florida at some point.
Blogger rhhardin said...
Chuck, you're too elliptic for me, probably because you misread Trump and so I can't follow the implications you want.
Gosh I thought that I read Trump perfectly well.
But here’s a chance for you to read Trump and tell me what I got wrong:
https://mobile.twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/377947866641485824?lang=en
I meant straight from the west.
The difficulty in following Chuck is that it’s hard to replicate his willful blindness as you try to understand him.
For some of us, facts stick, for others, if that fact tends to undermine an anti-Trump narrative, the facts disappear with the echo in the ears. It’s called denial. It’s a real thing, but it’s kind of complicated how it works, but it has to do with refusing to recall facts that cause cognitive dissonance as the pain is too much, and when your “precious” is Trump hatred, and it makes you feel so superior to indulge it, well who is going to climb out of an endorphin bath like that in order to answer the phone of reality? Your subconscious mind is smaller, simpler, and faster than your conscious mind, and it can veto lines of thought before your conscious mind becomes more than dimly aware that they are occurring.
September 11, 2001 was a life changing day for me. I had been working for the same company for 17 years, earning steady promotions and raises. Life was good. Suddenly I saw that everything could change in an instant, for the worse.
Up until then I had sort of a Tom Clancy view of the government, believing that very skilled and intelligent people were watching out for us and taking care of threats before they could hurt us here at home. I was wrong. Not only did the government fail to protect us, they seemed to magnify their incompetence by not sharing information with each other due to turf wars and bureaucratic inertia.
I no longer trust the government to do anything right. I certainly don't want them in charge of my health care or my retirement planning or fairly enforcing the death penalty. The less power they have the better.
That was part of it, but vigilance had something to do with it, quahtani just looked suspicious to orlando gonzales menendez, so he took him out of the admit line
This documentary film from 2006 shows a lot of things that have been deemed unworthy of coverage: 9/11 The Falling Man It is not for the squeamish.
I was working at home that morning and my wife cried out, "Oh my God. Look at that." It was the first plane crashing into one of the towers. We both thought it was a terrible accident.
We watched live as the second plane hit and knew it was a terrorist attack. Later, the discussion was (morbidly) about how many people were in the building on that Monday morning. Reporters were saying that up to 50K could be dead. I held out hope that a lot of people were either late or absent on that morning.
When I heard about the plane crashing into the Pentagon, I got scared.
Then I got mad.
It looks conciliatory to me. We are all in this together.
I don't favor the 9-11 annual pandering but Trump perhaps means to provoke media backlash, which is a losing path for the media. Trump likes to do that.
As I say I don't understand why everybody's mad at you today either.
Worse marion bowman and valerie caproni failed to move the phoenix memo into the pdb which made it mostly worthless
Not his best moment. Whatever. Hlllary Clinton is still not president.
The problem at the time was not the intelligence failure (which might have happened anyway) but the airpline policy of doing what the hijackers want. That changed pretty quickly.
Chuck, real questions:
Did you giggle at your "cleverness"?
Did you touch yourself?
(I have often witnessed the virulence of the anti-Chuck posting on this blog in a bemused way. What, I wondered, could inspire such immediate and intense dislike for a foolish and mindless troll. Now I understand.)
Am I too logical?
Being too logical is not your problem. But, then, you know that.
As I say I don't understand why everybody's mad at you today either.
Give me a break.
Could you say more? Or refer to a good source? (Not doubting you, just interested.)
It's in that book, "Touching History." In addition, a United pilot who ran the simulator for requalifying and training, told me that they were finding holes drilled in the bulkhead between the forward toilet and the cockpit.
The "Flying Imams" might have been a test run for another attempt.
Stampede at Muslim 'head-cutting' festival kills 31
There is an audio on YouTube that puts together all the communications to and from the planes, between air traffic controllers, with the Air Force etc so you know what was being transmitted in real time. The sad thing is that there were no procedures in place for handling this situation. An air traffic controller would call the Air Force and be put on hold for what seemed like an eternity. people couldn’t be located, etc. A lot of wasted time. there was no one person in charge. I’m sure it is much better today.
“September 11 as it unfolds. FAA and NORAD tapes”
Give me a lit crit explanation of what Chuck said that was maddening. It was a short comment, it should be easy.
The flight attendants were all very calm and professional. They can do a lot more than hand out pretzels.
We watched live as the second plane hit and knew it was a terrorist attack.
I did, too. I was watching Diane Sawyer as that second plane hit. She recoiled. I was in OC and the early crash was on tape. The second hit was live. I was getting ready to catch the train for LA as I was teaching that day. I didn't want to go as I knew nothing would get done but I went anyway and, of course, they cancelled classes.
The Media has done what it can to suppress the anger and direct the attention away from the intelligence failure and try to blame Bush. Of course, the Democrats had slow walked all his appointments so Rumsfeld had no staff besides the bureaucrats.
@Michael K,
Thanks, I will look for that book.
What does it say about our excrement media that this aspect of 9/11 isn't better known?
"A 9/11 REMINDER: Never Forget How U.S. Intelligence Failed You."
Indeed.
If Hillary were president, we would probably today be mourning war casualties from whatever conflict the ham fisted wannabee Caesar had blundered into. Instead, we are getting worked up over tweets. I will take it any day, and so should any honest person who believes we should be working towards peace.
For me from here in Arlington, it is still like yesterday. I was at the courthouse, waiting for cases to be called in two courtrooms, when a clerk in the filing room mentioned that a plane had just crashed into the Pentagon.
Back up in one courtroom during a break, I heard the judge say to the bailiff that we were at war, and had no clue as to what he was talking about (this was the same judge who heard the Marv Albert case).
Then going back to the other courtroom, the deputies started running in up to the bench, with the judge then saying that court was over, the cases would be rescheduled and that the building was being evacuated (for fear of an attack). The day over, I went home only to learn then of what was happening. Meanwhile, all our deputies and police deployed to the Pentagon three miles away.
Seems like yesterday. And it forever changed the world -- for some/many, that is. Many of us now realize that this is a September 12 world. Others, however, a living in a September 10 world.
First news I remember that morning was of the assassination of the leader of the Norther Alliance in Afghanistan by suicide bombers. So it didn’t take that long to put two and two together.
And they were moroccans living in malbeek, omar nassiri, knew the ring leader
Then when later that day I saw the response by Congress -- to go on the steps of the Capitol and sing God Bless America, it only pissed me off. If it had been left to them, al-Qaeda would be alive and well.
Rather, thank God for George W.
I didn't find sadness until much later. Anger was the emotion du jour.
"I didn't want to go as I knew nothing would get done but I went anyway and, of course, they cancelled classes."
I taught a 10am (CT) class. I had a Muslim student in the front row and he looked at me with this terrified look when I walked in the room. Not sure what he thought might happen. I started off with, "Let's just get through through this". It turned out to be a relief to shut the world out for 90 minutes.
Skylark: "First news I remember that morning was of the assassination of the leader of the Norther Alliance in Afghanistan by suicide bombers. So it didn’t take that long to put two and two together."
It was Clinton's holdover lawyer-heavy Pentagon that prevented the warfighters from whacking osama as he was fleeing to Pakistan.
Rowan Scarboroughs book "Rumsfeld's War" documents how these lefty lawyers stymied any and all effective responses. Rumsfeld as SecDef actually ignored the Pentagon lawyers "rulings" by sending Spec Ops forces into Afghanistan before all the zillion lawyers were done "arguing" about what was allowed and not allowed.
Thought experiment: what do you think the headlines today would read if Trump ignored the holdover obumbler's Pentagon lawyers?
We should make note that Trump sent a nice little 9-11 "remembrance" over to some of those cats just 2 days ago, didn't he?
Indeed, btw that is near the iranian border, as flawed as prince salman is, i think he is trying to make amends for what his father the king wrought, nearly 20 years ago. Silva sheepishly acknowledges this.
R.I.P.
Of course germany learned no lesson fron the hamberg cell as frau merkel proved
"But here’s a chance for you to read Trump and tell me what I got wrong:
https://mobile.twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/377947866641485824?lang=en"
What difference, at this point, does it make?
There are still angles worth pursuing:
https://www.pri.org/stories/2011-02-02/wikileaks-cable-reveals-fbi-hunt-qatari-men-over-911
I'm watching 9/11: The Falling Man over at youtube. Never seen a 9/11 doc before. Upsetting, powerful stuff. An AP photographer captured a beautiful photograph of one of the people who was falling to their deaths. Should newspapers run it?
The days and weeks following were something to never forget either. The area locked down. All airplanes grounded -- except for the military planes circling D.C. And all the armored military vehicles on the D.C. streets and soldiers with their weapons at the ready on practically every corner.
A couple of days after the attack, there was a sudden explosion close by on our block. Which resulted in a call to 911. I thought at the time that it might be -- and thankfully it was -- just a transformer blowing, but couldn't let your guard down.
My cousin had chosen that day to fly Seattle to London. When she deplaned at Heathrow
she had no idea why the place was such a madhouse, with people screaming and yelling and running all over the place.
I've seen the falling man/people footage. I don't want to see it again. Even thinking about it.
But sometimes it would be wrong to turn away just because you don't want to face the unpleasantness. Sometimes you have to look at the evil, even if you have to force yourself.
My wife called and told me to turn on the TV. I watched the second plane hit live. I watched both towers fall live. I was riveted.
I was consumed with anger. I, too, didn’t experience it all as sadness until a few days later.
It’s remarkable how simple, audacious and diabolical the hijackers’ plan was. I still marvel at it to this day. They used our open society and freedoms against us. If you’d told any reasonable person the scenario before that day, no one would believe you. Armchair quarterbacks need not apply. There were signs, yes. But that was a monstrous, brutal and spectacular attack. That’s why we need unreasonable people in scenario planning — those who know the mind of our enemies. That’s what I think was missing.
I knew two people who died inside the Twin Towers that day. May all Rest In Peace.
@Ann Althouse: Chuck needs to go. Pronto, please. There are certain lines that should never be crossed, and we all know what they are.
Chuck has everybody acting like women.
What do women want? Who knows.
The close analogy was the reaction to grab them by the pussy. That was the last straw, at the time, for women.
My cousin had chosen that day to fly Seattle to London.
I flew back from, London a several days after PanAm 103. They had not yet changed the flight number so we were on 103. The security was really tight that day. The security stickers were on my garment bag for ten years after.
I agree I'm a bad person. Get past that and just explain to me what Chuck said that was bad.
Remember, you're explaining to a bad person. Don't skip steps.
I'm against mob action and rule by estrogen, especially together.
Mob action is entertaining to the mob, and (same thing) click bait. So it's really popular.
Meh our hostess knows what to do with chuck amok.
"I agree I'm a bad person. Get past that and just explain to me what Chuck said that was bad."
Nobody's going to indulge you.
Not a good sign for the moral uprightness of the mob.
Not really
https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/274911/did-we-learn-anything-911-daniel-greenfield
We have 9-11 anniversaries for the clicks. People are so easily duped, and then it becomes a moral matter for them, inexplicable but powerful.
It's entertaining yourself at somebody else's expense. The same as highway wreck photos page 3.
B of E remarks: A tweet this morning from the NYT. No mention of terrorism or terrorists. Those silly airplanes just decided to kick it up a notch, I guess.
Yes, those Boeing 757s and 767s, just like AR-15s and AK-47s, need to be watched very closely because there's no telling when they might just decide to go berserk.
Blogger Ignatius Acton Chesterton OCD said...
@Ann Althouse: Chuck needs to go. Pronto, please. There are certain lines that should never be crossed, and we all know what they are.
The nerve; the chutzpah; the unfeeling, uncaring, ignorant selfishness... to have quoted Donald Trump on the subject of September 11. The lines that were crossed!
And most especially for me to have done it, with such bland precision that the Trump fans weren’t even aware of how they were supposed to react. Until it hit ‘em upside the head.
Its the rampaging suvs writ large.
Its the rampaging suvs writ large.
Narciso, I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who has noticed that SUVs get blamed for nearly all traffic fatalities even where they aren't actually involved.
I knew two people who died inside the Twin Towers that day. May all Rest In Peace.
A friend's son died there. First job after college.
Go away Chuck
When I see congresscritters and their barnacles gathered together for a sing-along, I want to puke.
In early September 2001 I had just earned tenure. I was leaving for work when the first plane hit IIRC, and saw the second one at work, where the bigscreen in the classroom had been tuned to CNN . . . People were speculating about death toll, and I was calculating, hell, there could be 10,000. Glad I was so wrong.
I have no direct connection to 9-11 victims. We visited the Flight 93 Memorial last year, and it's a very fine one -- except that Islam gets only a passing mention. I left my written opinion of that little omission, for history's sake.
I do have an indirect connection (what American doesn't): in 2006 Captain Robert S., USMC, was killed in Anbar Province while scouting for a good artillery position. Captain S.
was the son of a teaching colleague, his only child.
Narr
He was Jewish, had served an enlistment, and gotten an ROTC commission. R.I.P.
Oso Negro said...
The passengers who fought back on Flight 93 are the ones I prefer to think of from that day - there is something quintessentially American about them that I love deeply and do not see in other cultures. But the indelible images are the people leaping to their death from the Towers. Any teaching of the events of that day must include that.
I generally agree, though I'd widen that statement to include the Anglophile world, thus embracing an ex-Brit like Rick Rescorla, who, after saving 3000 Morgan Stanley staff from the WTC, went back up to make another sweep, and of course those 300 firemen who started up the WTC stairs to their deaths lugging 90 pounds of gear.
Absent Companions!
I see what you are doing there, Chuck. The problem for you is that Trump was talking about people like you, and you immediately prove Trump was right all along.
"The nerve; the chutzpah; the unfeeling, uncaring, ignorant selfishness... to have quoted Donald Trump on the subject of September 11. The lines that were crossed!"
Try to keep on topic ...
"I generally agree, though I'd widen that statement to include the Anglophile world, thus embracing an ex-Brit like Rick Rescorla, who, after saving 3000 Morgan Stanley staff from the WTC, went back up to make another sweep, and of course those 300 firemen who started up the WTC stairs to their deaths lugging 90 pounds of gear."
I think the original expectation was 10,000 body bags. But the people involved and the first responders did such an amazing, orderly job of evacuation in the limited time that it cut that number drastically.
I have always been amazed, Known Unknown, that the body count was as low as it was. When the 2nd of the towers collapsed, I predicted the body count would turn out to be in excess of 10,000, too. The work getting the people out of both towers was heroic. Most of the deaths appear to have happened at the points of impact and those trapped in the upper floors of the 1st tower hit, and the four aircraft themselves.
"The Arab is little more than an eater up of other men's produce; he is a destroyer rather than a creator, and he is unprolific."
************
Islam is the Whore of Babylon.
Known Unknown said...
I think the original expectation was 10,000 body bags. But the people involved and the first responders did such an amazing, orderly job of evacuation in the limited time that it cut that number drastically.
Of course the government (Port Authority) ordered that occupants "shelter in place". Rick, said "Fuck it, I'm getting my people out now"
Hardin showing anti-cuck behavior. Deplorables get more verklempt. Film at 11
The Man who predicted 9-11
I was working in the Hennepin Center for the Performing Arts in downtown Minneapolis. Our reception was freaking out, afraid that we would be targeted next and I remember thinking,the World Trade Center in NYC, the Pentagon in DC and the Hennepin Center for the Performing Arts in downtown Minneapolis. One of these things does not belong.
Rick Rescorla not only saved 3000 Morgan Stanley employees but he predicted the attack. He tried to convince the company to move to New Jersey as the WTC was too obvious a target. He enforced frequent fire drills and ordered the employees to evacuate when the Port Authority was telling people to stay.
Not even mentioning his heroism in the Ia Drang Valley.
And john oneil, he was following the trail of the uss cole bombing, when foggy bottom bureauctats sandbagged him, harvey keitel played him reasonably well in the road to 9/11.
I was just about to bring that up, about la drang,
"@Michael K, I never heard that before, about the Detroit plane."
Me neither. I was just thinking that the transportation grounding for those several days sure seems like a typical overreaction at this point, with no additional threats identified. Maybe Detroit was the win that justified it all. Or maybe not.
I took a shit in Chuck's mouth once and the damn turd cursed me for it.
Yes, those Boeing 757s and 767s, just like AR-15s and AK-47s, need to be watched very closely because there's no telling when they might just decide to go berserk.
We need common sense plane control legislation to save our children. I propose a plane buyback program that the American people will be happy with.
Love,
Beto
Maybe thats why abdulmutalab tried to hit detroit eight years later.
For perspective on the efficacy of contemporary American political leadership, imagine a different World War II outcome. It's December 7, 1959. We have freed the Philippines twice, but have neither invaded nor bombed Japan. The Emperor is still on the throne, Shinto shrines have been built all over the United States, our Presidents refuse to name Bushido as an issue. We have had an American President who was raised in Shintoism, and now have Congresswomen who are active adherents of the religion.
"I remember that dreadful morning like Yesterday. I remember at the time thinking, is this just the beginning? We didn't know Osama Bin Ladin, and didn't know how powerful Al Queda was."
While I thought just the opposite. Witnessing the event from mere blocks away, I thought, as I walked uptown, "Well, they've done the worst they can do. Their element of surprise is gone and they won't be able to hijack any other planes." I was never fearful of any more similarly catastrophic attacks by the terrorists. That they had to hijack US airplanes showed they didn't have other means available to inflict comparable (or greater) injury on us.
the Democrats had slow walked all his appointments so Rumsfeld had no staff besides the bureaucrats.
Yet Trump and Senate Repubs let it happen again.
I lived in Newtown, CT at the the time of the attacks. Someone who had property along I-84 in Brookfield put up a flag on the east-bound side of I-84 along with floodlights to illuminate it at night a day or so after 9/11. It was still there as of last October.
Wow: Speaker at 9/11 Ceremony in New York Calls Out Ilhan Omar
F the Squad(D)
I say these people are so fucking stupid that they don’t know they are beaten and never can win
Alas, demographics and Western elite stupidity say otherwise.
"Wow: Speaker at 9/11 Ceremony in New York Calls Out Ilhan Omar"
After 18 years these wannabe martyrs may finally get the backlash they've wanted all along.
The passengers who fought back on Flight 93 are the ones I prefer to think of from that day - there is something quintessentially American about them that I love deeply and do not see in other cultures.
Agreed. I read in detail about UA 93 last night and remembered a detail I had forgotten: they voted as to whether to rush the cockpit.
I am proud to be an American.
they were planning a second wave, on the west coast,
as for the Japanese example, the actual prime minister, was a fmr class A war criminal and administrator of Korean territory,
‘18 years have passed since airplanes took aim and brought down the World Trade Center.’
Some planes did something.
That they had to hijack US airplanes showed they didn't have other means available to inflict comparable (or greater) injury on us.
They hijacked US planes because they wanted them full of fuel.
rhhardin @10:43, 10:44, 10:46,10:47, 10:48, 10:54 & 10:56 AM:
I’m not sure what any of this has to do with estrogen. That said, I’ll take your comments in good faith...
Sometimes mobs have wisdom, and demonstrate the scale of the social tide behind their disgust. That, and a blog comments section is not a court of law.
Many Maitre d’hotels at many excellent restaurants have to ask male patrons to leave from time to time, and sometimes ask that they never come back.
I’m sure I’d have to explain to you why it is in horrible taste to visit a new widow at a funeral home and tell her what an asshole her husband was. Even if you think all your remarks about him are verifiably true, it’s still an unspeakable faux pas. And idiotic. And yes, I would consider someone who would do such a thing a bad person. I would consider anyone defending or endorsing their “right” to say such things to be a twelfth-degree ass.
If you don’t understand these metaphors/analogies, I can’t help you, so no need to respond. There are just certain things you just don’t do.
9/11 became a solemn occasion 18 years ago, and should require no explanation as to why. Discretion on such a solemnity is advised, acknowledging the real human impact of those events. Ignoring that solemnity and using it as an opportunity to take pot shots and score cheap points is beneath contempt. The Westboro Baptist Church does that sort of vile crap at the funerals of our fallen servicemen. Birds of a feather...
Click. [Dialtone]
Guys, please remember that Hardin is intellectually brilliant but also moderately autistic. I have a kid who is the same. I have to patiently explain how non autistic people think and why they do the things they do to my daughter because she is my child and I have a responsibility to do so. None of you owes Hardin the Obtuse a lifeline here.
9/11 became a solemn occasion 18 years ago, and should require no explanation as to why. Discretion on such a solemnity is advised, acknowledging the real human impact of those events. Ignoring that solemnity and using it as an opportunity to take pot shots and score cheap points is beneath contempt. The Westboro Baptist Church does that sort of vile crap at the funerals of our fallen servicemen. Birds of a feather...
7000 Americans die every day, day in and day out. That would be twice as solemn.
9-11 as event is an opportunity for profit on both the right and left. Listen to the news coverage. Same crap every year, like Thanksgiving airport congestion stories and black friday k-mart coverage. It's just crap. Sell eyes to advertisers, advertise your seriousness as an American.
Put your patriotism and sympathy where it matters, where it's not self-entertainment.
"Sorry about your father." That's sympathy for somebody you know, and he has a use for it. It doesn't mean you're sorry but says that you'll cut him some slack for a while on his social and work obligations. That's the use he has for it.
If it's somebody you don't know, your sympathy means nothing. It's you entertaining yourself and watching whatever ads accompany it.
I don't offhand remember suggesting insulting the bereaved, I just don't see how their bereavement is my business any more than 7000 fatalaties a day are my business. What use do they have for my sympathy.
Sometimes the comments here are pure literary artistry.
Anita Hill stumbled on the sympathy thing. Her friend judge Susan Hoerchner testified that Hill described the problem on the telephone to her, and in spite of her offered sympathy, Hill was not made to feel better. The implication being it was so bad that ... etc.
But sympathy always works. It offers slack on social obligations, not a feeling.
It only fails to work if Hill is making it up.
Or of course if you don't even know the guy and so he has no social obligations to you to cut him slack on.
I’m not sure what any of this has to do with estrogen.
It's a mass short-circuit to feelings instead of thought. Acting like women.
A proper guy has a cold cynical eye. If it makes it down several levels, then the proper feeling is justified.
But TV-level analysis is nothing at all. Just go with the feeling, is what they do.
You have to often wonder if Osama bin Laden wasn't right after all about the will of Americans to keep fighting. He predicted that they (al-Qaeda) would get hit hard, but that eventually enough Americans would get tired of it and would go away, and the Islamic jihad would still stand.
I don't understand why they haven't, but they could easily do worse. Virtually anybody with a little money and intelligence could kill far more people, and with much less risk and effort. A toy store rocket full of anthrax or ricin launched into a football stadium with 50,000 people trapped in there. There are a dozens of similar ways to do terrible things. I don't know why crazy people have not done them.
Lotta good citizens here, a handful of clueless stooges, but no big deal.
However, let's not forget Michael Moore's high-grossing movie, Farenheit 911.
The thesis of the movie, if you can believe it, was that the US staged the 9/11 attack. Many prominent leftists celebrated this movie. A lotta 9/11 Truthers still believe this. Indeed, Michael Moore was feted at the Democrat Convention in 2004 as a hero.
These are the political wackos we face and their clueless supporters.
As to Hardin - he isn't wrong. You might not like it, and I think he would prefer it wasn't true, but mostly it is.
Murder is very different from accidental and natural death.
Faulkner said something like: In the South, one death demands another.
rhhardin, do you recall all the people here who expressed disapproval of Chuck's comments?
Many of us took them to be the equivalent of telling a widow what an asshole her dead husband had been. Or, more accurately, using his funeral as an excuse to, while pretending to offer sympathy to the widow, use the opportunity to take a shit on the buffet table as a way to offend the other mourners.
This isn't about the efficacy or propriety of offering sympathy; you are entitled to your opinions about that. But many here, still, after all this time, mourn for what happened 18 years ago. For some of us it is still fresh, and it hurts, and it is comforting to gather in a mutually agreeable place to share those feelings.
When someone uses this to kick us when we are hurting, there is often an immediate emotional reaction of anger. When someone who is generally considered a troll continues his behavior when it is clearly inappropriate, others will comment on it and call of his censure.
You asked for an explanation; you may accept it as genuine even if you cannot personally understand it.
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