August 31, 2019

"Try to imagine yourself into the shoes of someone undecided on whether to support Trump in 2020. What argument against him do you think you'll find most persuasive?"

Asks Ben Wikler, Chair of the Democratic Party of Wisconsin, on Twitter, quoted by my son John on Facebook.

One answer John gives (at Twitter) is:
The worst argument is he’s “NOT NORMAL,” “violates norms,” etc. That argument itself isn’t normal; “politics as usual” is an insult, not a compliment. WI, MI, & PA residents voted for him knowing he’s far from a normal politician and unlikely to change. They liked that about him.

340 comments:

1 – 200 of 340   Newer›   Newest»
Mike Sylwester said...

President Trump sends dog whistles to White Supremacists.

Josephbleau said...

The right thinking elites hate him, so you should too.

Dave said...

Instead of arguing against, why not take the position he's not going far enough. Obama would do that. He'd be more Trump than Trump is.

Biden could have done that too, I think. Before.

Seeing Red said...

What’s more normal. Trump or the Dems Thinking the US is the MA senator seat after Teddy Died; entitlement.

Limited blogger said...

Orange Man Bad.

Didn't know there were other arguments.

Virgil Hilts said...

To save the planet we need a collapse in the human population. Democratic policies and leadership offer the best hope for accelerating the decline, triggering widespread despair and drastically lowering the birth rate while increasing the death rate. Look at the collapse in the birth rate in Venezuela and say yes we can.

Amadeus 48 said...

He’s really a Democrat.

tim in vermont said...

“Liberals are the natural ruling class” is a good one.

tcrosse said...

That the person the Democrats nominate this time (whoever it is) could not possibly be as awful as Hillary was. Also, that person could not possibly run a stupider campaign.

Or could they?

tim in vermont said...

Democrats don’t even use “dogwhistles” for Antifa, more like starter’s pistols.

Fernandinande said...

What argument against [Trump] do you think you'll find most persuasive?"
Asks Ben Wikler


"Ben Wikler likes Trump."

Michael K said...

The best argument is that you hate America and that seems close to the Democrat position.

themightypuck said...

I was listening to a podcast (Harry Enten I think) and they were talking about Trump being "not normal" the whole time and all I was thinking was how do you sell the whole existential risk/uncharted waters thing when he's been here for close to three years and nothing actually bad has happened so far.

tim in vermont said...

“You really shouldn’t be working in the industry you are in, it’s better off if your job is done in China” would be a good one

How about “Pennsylvania! Frackers! Coal miners! Steelworkers! Learn to code!"

Bay Area Guy said...

1. His nomination of Federal judges has been outstanding.
2. His cutting of federal regulations has been outstanding.
3. His tax cuts were good.
4. The economy (GDP up, stock market up, unemployment down) has been great.
5. His efforts (often thwarted) to secure the border has been great.

Wait, did I read the question correctly?

Narr said...

The best reason I can think of to vote against Trump is that despite (because of?) his experience with the DS he won't kill it, he'll just redeploy it as a means of personal and partisan vengeance (per precedent).

Narr
But that will likely be true of any plausible D or R candidate.

Expat(ish) said...

Great taste, less tweeting.

-XC

Amadeus 48 said...

Then there is always, “Vote for me, you racist!” That has winner written all over it.

mockturtle said...

This is a hypothetical question that has no basis in reality. A person is either for Trump or against him.

Mike Sylwester said...

Be enforcing our immigration laws, Trump breaks up families.

tim in vermont said...

“I don’t have a magic wand!” worked for Obama.

“Even though unemployment is at record lows, you know you would rather have a better job working twelve hours a week and pulling down six figures, Trump isn’t going to promise you that!"

Big Mike said...

Is Ben Wikler intelligent enough to realize how fed up honest people are with the endless “We Hate Trump”? Probably not. “Politics as usual” isn’t just an insult; it’s a complaint usually tied specifically to Democrats (though Establishment Republicans have been at pains to prove that it ought to apply to them, too.)

If young Mr. Wikler would stop believing his own party’s propaganda, he’d realize the Tea Party was a reaction to Obama’s foolish policies, not to the man himself.

Tyrone Slothrop said...

"Please, PLEASE don't throw President Trump in de briar patch."

Amadeus 48 said...

But wait, the Tea Party was racist. I read it in a newspaper just this week.

Gunner said...

"Think about the kids in cages that we didnt give a crap over when Obama was doing it!"

mockturtle said...

Virgil Hilts @10:55: I know people who would be very moved by that. But they're already Democrats.

tim in vermont said...

“Unlimited free stuff. You won’t have to work, that’s what illegals are for!"

Mike Sylwester said...

Even though our unemployment rate is at a record low, almost 5% of the workforce has to work in two or more jobs in order to earn a living wage.

Louie Looper said...

He doesn’t speak French.
(But his wife does.)

rcocean said...

Babies -in CAGES - at the Border. Beautiful Brown babies. And we're all going to die in the Trump's Trade war!

Most people are idiots, and idiotic arguments sway low information voters.

Amadeus 48 said...

Althouse, I don’t know what you did collect these commenters, but you are a genius.

tcrosse said...

Trick question. If you're even considering supporting Trump you're beyond persuasion. You are deplorable.

Bill, Republic of Texas said...

How about calm and effective leadership to address issues most Americans consider important.

The problem is most things are going good. The economy is fine, taxes are low, peace and prosperity is difficult to run against.

I guess they'll have to run on more free shit.

Oh and vote for us so we'll stop the drama.

Amadeus 48 said...

He’s endorsed by the NYT and WaPoop.

rcocean said...

The best serious argument is that Trump has cut taxes for the rich and done NOTHING to control drug prices or health costs. He's not relieved on his promise to improve the health care system.


The Democrats cry of "free medical care" for everyone is a winner.

tim in vermont said...

Today I was listening to financial news for some reason and they had Obama era people on to critique Trump’s handling of China and trade and they said “There is a problem that needs to be dealt with here, a structural problem, and the president needs to use whatever tools he has,<<--Really said that, but we need to be ‘smart’”

Nobody asked them what a “smart” approach would be, and he never offered it up, so I guess they should say we are going to be “smart” with the Chinese, and if the voter should ask what that means, you could answer “You know... clever."

tim in vermont said...

This is why the Democrats ended the secret ballot in California, and the Republicans just let them do it.

Amadeus 48 said...

Rcocean—on that basis, free stuff is a winner across the board. I’d really like a free house on a lake in a place with good schools and great restaurants. Oh yeah, and I’d like an income of $300,000 (after tax). I’d also like interesting friends who think I’m a genius.

That’s the program I want.

ga6 said...

Does this mean that Wisconsin Democrats have no clue as to what has happened the past four years?

Amadeus 48 said...

He didn’t put Hillary Clinton in jail.

rcocean said...

The purpose is to give arguments that will win D votes. But thanks for stating your opposition to "Free Stuff".

Bill, Republic of Texas said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Amadeus 48 said...

I am confident that you are right. “Free stuff” is a winner.

Bill, Republic of Texas said...

The Democrats cry of "free medical care" for everyone is a winner.

True. Checkout this thread on bogleheads. This is a website full of high wealth and financial people. This thread talks about healthcare in Italy and US. Everyone hates our system even the rich.

https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=289288

Amadeus 48 said...

Isn’t the game here to come up with arguments that I as an undecided voter would find persuasive to vote against Trump?
I stand by every comment I made above.

Hagar said...

A plausible candidate to run for the Democrats?

Skookum John said...

@Narr: The best reason I can think of to vote against Trump is that despite (because of?) his experience with the DS he won't kill it, he'll just redeploy it as a means of personal and partisan vengeance (per precedent)...But that will likely be true of any plausible D or R candidate.

I do not agree. The civil service, even among such previously conservative sectors such as the law enforcement apparatus, intelligence services, and financial regulators, has been totally politicized on behalf of the candidate promising the most vigorous aggrandizement of government.

In fact, "politicized" doesn't even capture the severity of what's happened. "Weaponized" is more like it. And of course, no one outdoes the Democrats in promising the government employees' unions ever more revenue, more power, and less accountability.

This trend will unquestionably continue until there is a complete collapse and we are reduced to Zimbabwean beggary.

tim in vermont said...

"Isn’t the game here to come up with arguments that I as an undecided voter would find persuasive to vote against Trump?”

You’re the undecided voter, you come up with the argument.

Hagar said...

There is nothing as expensive as the "free" stuff.

narciso said...

He hasnt ended carnage on our streets, in fact there is more of it.

There has beem no criminal prosecution of companies like purdue, only civil actions

tim in vermont said...

“We promise to re-ignite the cold war with Russia!"

Chuck said...

"He's the dumbest and most disgraceful lying bastard ever to occupy the Oval Office" just might work for me in 2020.

And I voted for him, in Michigan, in 2016.

tim in vermont said...

A more interesting article would have been what would make a never Trumper vote for Trump. Something the guy might actually know about instead of trying to get other people to write his column. IDK, I have never heard of him and nothing I have read today has suggested that I should pay any attention to him in the future.

Bill Harshaw said...

He's unethical and runs an unethical administration full of scandal which divides America.

exhelodrvr1 said...

Bill,
"He's unethical and runs an unethical administration full of scandal which divides America."

This is about Trump. Not everything is about Obama!

Dave said...

RC, can you please not be so rude all the time? It isn't helpful. Besides all the friendly fire, it's no way to treat your fellow man.

tim in vermont said...

I settled the whole “He’s so dumb” issue when Reagan was president, as I recall. I remember saying to myself, “so what if he is an ‘idiot,’ the country is running great!”

I am sure Chuck bought into the whole Reagan is an idiot too and voted for Jimmy Carter and Walter “I will raise your taxes” Mondale. Talk about dumb.

Country is running fine.

minnesota farm guy said...

Boris Johnson is doing his best to make Trump look normal. Go Boris! Rule Brittania!

rcocean said...

Hey Dave, Fuck You.

How's that?

tim in vermont said...

I don’t care if he’s Forest Gump as long as we get Forest Gump type results.

gilbar said...

He Hasn't Built as Much NEW Wall, as You'd Like; so you should Vote Democrat!

seriously, i think Virgil Hilts @10:55 AM nailed it

Big Mike said...

"He's the dumbest and most disgraceful lying bastard ever to occupy the Oval Office" just might work for me in 2020.

Coming so soon after Carter, Clinton, and Obama the untruthfulness of that statement is self-evident.

Mark said...

What argument against him do you think you'll find most persuasive?

See, that's the fatal flaw of the Dems. They have tried every argument against Trump.

Thing is this -- it's not all about Trump's flaws. It is about something -- anything -- positive from the Dems.

And the number one reason that Trump will likely be re-elected is the same reason that he was elected in the first place -- to stop the crazy left Dems.

People are not so much as voting FOR Trump as utterly rejecting the destructive progressive left.

Bob Boyd said...

In order to identify the most persuasive, it might be helpful to list the arguments against Trump that are being presented.

#1 has been Trump is a white supremacist/racist/anti-immigrant.

Trump doesn't know what he's doing re the economy, will cause a recession.

Trump's trade war will lead to economic recession or worse.

Trump doesn't know what he's doing re foreign relations.

Trump's policies are bad for the environment.

Trump's victory was somehow illegitimate.

Trump is unusually dishonest.

Others?


If you react negatively to Trump on an emotional level, you may find any and all of these persuasive. But if you react negatively emotionally then you are not undecided. None of these arguments hold up well to serious, unbiased consideration.

Wikler goes on to say: His repellent behavior is extremely well-covered, even eg on late night TV. But his awful policies mostly don’t generate sustained coverage, so people not paying close attention simply don’t know about them yet.

But are his policies really awful? I would say the reason Trump's policies don't generate coverage is precisely because they are not awful. Quite the contrary.
Wikler calls for dispassionate analysis, but quickly fails himself to be able to maintain objectivity.



tim in vermont said...

Ever had an employee that everybody really disliked but they managed to meet or beat their numbers month after month, year after year?

gilbar said...

Big Mike said...
Coming so soon after Carter, Clinton, and Obama the untruthfulness of that statement is self-evident


Don't forget Nixon, Johnson, Kennedy!

sykes.1 said...

There are NO relevant arguments either for or against Trump. The issue is whether Americans want a totalitarian socialist government or not, because every Democrat candidate, including Biden, will install such a regime.

We had the same choice in 2016. Trump himself is simply irrelevant. It is the Democrat who drive the choice.

walter said...

SCOTUS appointment(s)/abortion

gilbar said...

Remember!
To Life Long Liberals; Johnson was Clever, and Graceful, and Honest!

mockturtle said...

RC, can you please not be so rude all the time? It isn't helpful. Besides all the friendly fire, it's no way to treat your fellow man.

Dave, Dave! Are you new here? This is the sort of remark that will set you up as an easy target. See Chuck

Mark said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Mark said...

What argument against him do you think you'll find most persuasive?

The Dems ought to look and the mirror and ask themselves how utterly wretched must they be if folks voted for Trump over them?

Yancey Ward said...

One condition- the economy is still as good a year from now as it is today.

Then the best argument is going to have to be a positive argument for how you are going to make things better than Trump has done in his first term- if you simply try all the negative arguments being used now, Trump is going to win 350+ electoral votes.

If the economy is in recession a year from now, then it will be tough for Trump to win no matter what argument the Dem candidate makes.

buwaya said...

You no longer have a "normal".
Some people are too stuck in their own past to understand the present.
Or perhaps their personal circumstances do not give them an adequate view.
The present is not what they think it is.

I am not in a happy position, to have a sharp view of what is your current situation.
It would be better for me, personally, probably, to be sheltered from this.
But it is never good to wish for a worse, less accurate instrument, if the data from the one you have is disturbing.

Ken B said...

“I watched him have Russians pee on The Emancipation Proclamation, my word as a Biden.”

NCMoss said...

He treats democrats and the media as incompetent and irrelevant; oh wait, they are.

doctrev said...

Chuck, you should tell people you know in Michigan that you voted for Trump and are now regretting it. I'm sure you'd be a hit at the high-paying legal job that you absolutely have.

If it was me, I'd start a primary candidate specifically attacking Trump on not having The Wall ready. They'd have to ignore the fact Congress and most of the corrupt federal judiciary are blocking it, and desperately try to refocus anger on the President instead of the cuckiest parts of Congress, but it might work. But I don't think Coulter is ready to sacrifice her viewers on a long shot, and no one else has the gravitas to make the attack stick.

And I don't even think a recession will be sufficient to defeat Trump. Soros doesn't have enough juice to completely wreck the American economy, and even moron economists agree that China has just about exhausted its capacity for tariffs, whereas Trump can escalate the trade war and bleed China dry. He can point to that plus the USMCA trade deal, while also pointing out the Dems want to sell out to China and their corporate sponsors. If it has any purchase with unions, like Trump's then-unproven 2016 pronouncements clearly did, this thing is over. No margin of cheating will be sufficient for the Dems to win.

Bob Boyd said...

The Democrats and the media, who in their own minds are the good people, the smart people and the caring people, are hoping and praying for a hurricane disaster of epic proportions in FLA and are already working on the narrative blaming Trump.
These are the people who tell us daily how repellent Trump's behavior is.

Bill Peschel said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
chickelit said...

The most persuasive argument for Trump is that the alternatives are worse. The D party is far too socialist. Their de facto open borders policy is destructive to the well being of all but the elite.

Mark said...

Chuck, you should tell people you know in Michigan that you voted for Trump and are now regretting it.

He's certainly done a great job in convincing people around here to turn against Trump.

Not.

readering said...

He bailed on Poland to play golf and tweet about the women he hired and fired.

mockturtle said...

Health care could be the biggest hurdle for Trump in 2020 unless he comes up with some kind of plan.

Amadeus 48 said...

If we are in recession, it will be interesting to see how Trump proceeds. All the great promoters in word history have a strategy for dealing with disappointed customers— sometimes it is sneaking out of town after dark. Sometimes it is changing the subject. Sometimes it is offering a whole new deal. Sometimes it is staring a riot. I predict grave developments in international affairs or a swing to out Democrating the Dems. Maybe we’ll get Italy’s healthcare system!

What would P T Barnum do?

Mark said...

Sorry, but most people can see with their eyes that a Trump recession is better than the Obama "recovery."

Bob Boyd said...

All these professional liars keep calling Trump a liar and they can't understand why it doesn't why it doesn't persuade people.

Amadeus 48 said...

Sorry. “World” not word. “Starting” not staring.

Grrrr...

Narayanan said...

Time to shuffle our Stack of Concepts-Political and Skills-Set.

https://everythingstudies.com/

chickelit said...

AAT said...You’re the undecided voter, you come up with the argument.

Precisely. Why should we help undo Trump? It's not like there's a viable alternative.

Bob Boyd said...

The question Dem State Party Chairs are really asking themselves: Try to imagine yourself in the shoes of a dead voter. What is the best way to get that voter to polls?

exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...

The world will end in 12 years if we reelect Trump. The rainforest will burn out and we won't have enough oxygen and the coasts will be flooded and all the polar bears will die out and it will be because of Trump. And white supremacy.

doctrev said...

Amadeus 48 said...
If we are in recession, it will be interesting to see how Trump proceeds. All the great promoters in word history have a strategy for dealing with disappointed customers— sometimes it is sneaking out of town after dark. Sometimes it is changing the subject. Sometimes it is offering a whole new deal. Sometimes it is staring a riot. I predict grave developments in international affairs or a swing to out Democrating the Dems. Maybe we’ll get Italy’s healthcare system!

What would P T Barnum do?

8/31/19, 12:10 PM

It's impossible to look at Trump's first term and not realize that the core of the platform is offering a New Deal. Not to the people, but to American corporations. The free ride is over. You see a lot of multinationals slashing jobs, but American employment numbers keep on booming. That's partly down to corporations that love America, but also small/ medium sized businesses. Corporations that depended on mega subsidies and trade with China have suffered a lot, and will continue suffering.

But if 2020 starts with a recession, Trump can and probably will declare war on the corporations responsible. If you want to see wholesale war against globalist corporations, I have three words for you: progressive corporate taxes. Just the threat of it will probably keep most companies from buying into a plan to tank the economy. And if Wall Street is seriously planning to crash out, for whatever reason, Trump supporting a Tobin Tax will put paid to future disasters as well.

The President is much likelier to "win" a recession than businesses are. Americans, with very few exceptions, aren't dumb enough to buy into this idea that the mysterious economic crash after years of prosperity is all because Orange Man Bad.

Narayanan said...

*Vote for Us*
And you can go last on our kill list.

Wince said...

What argument against him do you think you'll find most persuasive?

"We have no response. Trump was perfect."

AllenS said...

What argument against him do you think you'll find most persuasive?

Oh, that's easy -- he hasn't promised to make every thing free!

Carol said...

This is why the Democrats ended the secret ballot in California

Wait, what? Tell me you're kidding.

Ralph L said...

I would think 90% of the undecideds have barely paid attention since 2016 (or before, for that matter), so the argument either way would have to be simple and straightforward.

he's been here for close to three years and nothing actually bad has happened so far.

That should be the hill the hair on fire Dems stall out on.

Eric said...

He's not running for brother-in-law or next-door neighbor.

chickelit said...

readering said...He bailed on Poland to play golf and tweet about the women he hired and fired.

You may be onto something with the golf thing. Obama spent way too much time golfing as well. People never appreciated GBW's giving up golf. The Dems have several candidates who don't golf, so that could be a selling point. As for Trump's tweets, they are a feature and not a bug. I like that he tweets around the press. If you don't like Trump's tweets, you may as well come out and say that you disliked the idea of FDR's fireside chats.

Char Char Binks, Esq. said...

He's not a Democrat. That's all I need.

Char Char Binks, Esq. said...

"He’s really a Democrat."

Kinda, but he's not THOSE Democrats.

tcrosse said...

Ladies who imagine themselves into those shoes should wear nylons.

Carol said...

OK I call BS on that.

gilbar said...

IF Trump is Reelected; within 70 years, OVER FIVE BILLION People will DIE!!!!

readering said...

His tweeting has gone from a novelty to a pathology.

Carol said...

I mean on the "no secret ballot in Cali" assertion.

Bob Boyd said...

The most persuasive argument the Dems could make might be, Give us our way and the tantrum will stop.

Yancey Ward said...

On Dorian, my best guess is the storm never makes landfall in the US. This is just me looking at the weather map in the southeast US for today. If the center does make landfall, it will be on the coast of North Carolina- the most common track for a hurricane sitting where it is now in late August/early September. There is a trough off cutting through north central Florida and running up the coast offshore about 150 miles, and hurricanes typically get caught in them and travel along them in that area. It is a common feature for such storms.

Seeing Red said...

I read that Macron and Trump have come to a deal taxing companies like Google.

Jim at said...

The Democrats won't win the election by simply being against Trump. They tried the same thing in 2004.

You have to be for something. Provide an alternative.

But don't pay any attention to me. Carry on. You'll deserve what you get.

Seeing Red said...

The Donald has a health care plan.

Cocaine Mitch said it’s up to The Donald to get the Dems on board.

Pence is traveling trying to get the freshmen Dems to pass the renegotiated NAFTA.

Ralph L said...

Carol, I believe that was referring to vote harvesting.

Mark said...

With absentee/early/mail voting, how hard is it to take a bunch of blank ballots to some old folks home where all the residents have Alzheimer's, fill out all the ballots for the Dems, tell granny and gramps to sign the form, and send them in?

Here in the D.C. area, I've seen polling place workers go into the booth to "help" voters cast their ballots.

Narayanan said...

This Q is too narrow : Democrats-Globalists have to worry about synergy From Brexit with "no-deal" to be useful to Boris and Trump.

n.n said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
n.n said...

The most persuasive argument the Dems could make might be, Give us our way and the tantrum will stop.

Stop hitting yourself. Here's to progress.

n.n said...

Get your free abortions. No child left a burden in pursuit of wealth, pleasure, leisure, and narcissistic indulgence. Get your free abortions here. #NoFaculty #NoJudgment #NoLabels #FifthChoice #PlannedChild #WickedSolution

Sebastian said...

"Try to imagine yourself into the shoes of someone undecided on whether to support Trump in 2020. What argument against him do you think you'll find most persuasive?"

After 3 years of the Russia hoax and coup attempt, and now the racism smears, the Dems are getting into "arguments"?

Anyway, there's only one "argument" that will work on cruelly-neutral "undecided" pro-abortion feminists like Althouse: no more Kavanaughs.

Mark said...

Get your free abortions.

Actually, a demonstrated argument that Trump was pro-abortion, while it may or may not move otherwise undecideds, it would definitely lead him to lose the election.

All of the pro-life vote would immediately abandon him. And they are big enough to swing the election.

In fact, if Trump were to take any substantive position that showed he was no better than the left, he will lose.

Author said...

nice article

Michael K said...

Blogger readering said...
His tweeting has gone from a novelty to a pathology.


Yes, it's called "Trump Derangement Syndrome" and he is a carrier, not a victim. You catch the syndrome.

Paco Wové said...

It's interesting that "our party has good ideas" doesn't seem to cross Mr. Chairman's mind as an argument for the Democrats.

Browndog said...

Democrats will make the only argument they have, and the only argument they need-

Donald Trump is not a liberal.

Mark said...

It's interesting that "our party has good ideas" doesn't seem to cross Mr. Chairman's mind as an argument for the Democrats.

The Dems'/lefts' hubris is thinking that they are the default position in everything. They don't need to give people a reason to vote "for" them. People will stay on the Plantation anyway.

Sebastian said...

No more Kavanaughs is the big argument.

But the one other "argument" Dems might try with the timid Althouses of America is: if you vote for us, we won't call you racist for the next four years.

Mark said...

By the way, I'm getting annoyed with the sudden increase in having to do the Captcha thing.

tds said...

After scrolling through replies to that twitter post and noticing most of them treat undecided voters as lost cases, not worth to talk to, or literally being Hitler spawns, I'm pretty sure Trump is in a good position to win 2020.

tim in vermont said...

" mean on the "no secret ballot in Cali" assertion.”

What do you call it when the party can collect and handle your absentee ballots en masse?

tim in vermont said...

The rule allowing the Democrats to handle absentee ballots is no different than card check. It’s a Democrat dream to be able to enforce party discipline on voters through all kinds of thuggery and pressure tactics.

Bruce Hayden said...

“By the way, I'm getting annoyed with the sudden increase in having to do the Captcha thing”

Then don’t. It hasn’t seemed necessary for me for several weeks now.

mockturtle said...

Mark, you're still doing the Captcha thing? Don't do it. It's unnecessary.

tim in vermont said...

"He bailed on Poland to play golf and tweet about the women he hired and fired.”

This is the kind of shit that readering believes because of his TDS. There is a major hurricane bearing down on the US, that’s why he postponed the Poland trip. These kinds of stories are why we laugh at you guys when you call Trump a liar. Pot, meet kettle.

tim in vermont said...

"It hasn’t seemed necessary for me for several weeks now.”

Weeks? Years.

mockturtle said...

Mark asserts: All of the pro-life vote would immediately abandon him. And they are big enough to swing the election.

And they, instead, would vote for....?

Mark said...

Mark, you're still doing the Captcha thing? Don't do it. It's unnecessary.

Let's see . . .

Mark said...

Huh.

Mark said...

Great.

Now I need to find something else to complain about.

Mark said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Mark said...

Pro-lifers would vote for staying home.

If Trump is no better than the other side, then people will simply stay home. Just ask Romney and Capt. Queeg.

h said...

I clicked over to the twitter feed on this, and almost no one has a serious answer. Overwhelmingly, the answers are along the lines of "if you are not already decided against Trump, you are too stupid (racist) to engage with." Even if this is what a person truly believes, how can they think that this a good strategy to use to win an election? I can't tell if the underlying thinking is "This election is in the bag, we cannot possibly lose, so why even worry about trying to convince anyone," or "I don't care if we lose as long as I look good doing it."

BUMBLE BEE said...

Fentanyl prices have gone thru the roof! Only major league ball players can afford the stuff.

tim in vermont said...

I don’t know how Democrats appeal to their rabid left base and workers in manufacturing and energy in the US without the old way where the stuff you said to one group didn’t get to the other group within seconds.

Darrell said...

I tell people that Obama didn't finish the job of destroying the USA. Somebody's got finish the job.

That appeals to them because I didn't say they had to do it.

tim in vermont said...

If you think that Trump is going to let his opponent have it both ways on these issues, like they are right now, since nobody is allowed to ask them any tough questions, since that would be “doing Trump’s job for him.”

tim in vermont said...

I still find it fascinating that Bernie voters think that Epstein was murdered and Warren voters think it was suicide. Well, per Mickey Kaus, anyways.

gilbar said...

Even if this is what a person truly believes, how can they think that this a good strategy to use to win an election? I can't tell if the underlying thinking is "This election is in the bag, we cannot possibly lose

I remember this one time, a while ago;
where the Leading Candidate, while wondering "Why aren't I up 50 points" in the polls,
Said that of the people NOT supporting her;
you could put half ...into what I call the basket of deplorables...
They're racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic – Islamophobic – you name it...
they are irredeemable, but thankfully, they are not America...

the "other" basket – ...they're just desperate for change


So, IF you're not willing to vote democratic, you are (to the dems);
either
IRREDEEMABLE, but thankfully, Not America: So those can be EXTERMINATED, and TURNED INTO SOAP
OR
You're just STUPID, and desperate ('cause you're STUPID); but, there's HOPE for you; IF you come around, and toe the party line; maybe (just Maybe) you won't have to be erased.


One side in america wants to deprive the other side of All Civil Liberties, and perhaps their lives
The other side, not only has a Gorgeous, wife; his daughter ain't bad looking either.

alanc709 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Joanne Jacobs said...

Calling Trump flakey, crazy or "not normal" will not work if the Democratic candidate is Joe Biden, who seems to be having memory problems consistent with early-stage dementia. I think Elizabeth Warren is now the most electable Democrat with a shot at the nomination. But I don't see Trump voters switching to Warren, even if she is able to move to the middle for the general election. People are cynical about politicians promising free stuff.

Iman said...

If you want to see Bill Kristol, David Frum and several other NeverTrump-types regain a modicum of sanity, do NOT vote for Donald Trump in 2020.

Bob Boyd said...

If you don't defeat Trump, the Obama's will lose their beloved Martha's Vineyard home to rising sea levels which Obama stopped, but Trump started again because he's racist.

FrankiM said...

Possibly the most egregious of Trump’s heartless policies, the deportation of sick immigrant children.

gilbar said...

Igna; have you ever heard of Ellis Island?
Are you So Ignorant (or course you are! ) that you don't think that is the American way?

Currently, if a LEGAL immigrant comes into to this country; do they have to pass a physical before admission? Do you ACTUALLY NOT know this?

Why do you think that illegals should be treated MORE leniently than Legal Immigrants ?

tim in vermont said...

Let’s see what happens on sick children, BTW, they are not immigrants, they are legal aliens, when it gets straightened out. So far all there is are some letters that may have been sent in error.

chickelit said...

FrankiM said...Possibly the most egregious of Trump’s heartless policies, the deportation of sick immigrant children.

No, that could easily be countered by the Democrat Party policy of deliberately importing sick children when there are already too many sick/underserved children of our own. In other words, should we save the world or save ourselves first? I realize that might be an oversimplified dichotomy, but the open borders policy championed by Dems is a new phenomenon and which deserves to be challenged. But Dems are hamstrung by the very notion that mention of such a problem will offend "hispanics."

chickelit said...

I'm so old that I remember when the Democrat Party looked out for their own rank-and-file instead of always championing other nation's citizens.

mockturtle said...

But Dems are hamstrung by the very notion that mention of such a problem will offend "hispanics."

Hispanics who can legally vote [!] do not favor open borders. So why would they worry? I'd say it's more likely the Progwhites who will be offended.

Iman said...

“Possibly the most egregious of Trump’s heartless policies, the deportation of sick immigrant children.”

When Obama deported children, he did it “for the children”...

rehajm said...

It depends..Is the undecided person an Althouse figure-it-out-on-the-way-to-the-polls type? A minority that doesn't bother voting? An illegal immigrant?

mockturtle said...

Mark sez: Now I need to find something else to complain about.

Don't worry. It'll come. ;-)

FrankiM said...

‘Boston — Due to a change in policy by the Trump administration, hundreds of immigrant children receiving medical care in the U.S. are facing possible deportation. The children are in the country legally and many suffer from serious diseases, including cancer.

The family came to the U.S. legally in 2016 and applied for "medical deferred action," a program that allows immigrants to receive life-saving treatment for up to two years. But, this week they received a denial notice, giving them 30 days to leave the country or face deportation.

As part of new Trump administration policy, U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services changed the medical deferment program, leaving hundreds of immigrant children in limbo. When CBS News reached out to USCIS, the agency did not give a reason for the sudden change in policy, but said Immigration and Customs Enforcement will now handle the applications.

However when CBS News reached out to ICE, they said it has "no policy or program to deal with medical deferred action," adding, there's "no plan" to take it over.“

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/immigrant-children-getting-life-saving-medical-care-in-us-facing-deportation-2019-08-29/

readering said...

"This is the kind of shit that readering believes because of his TDS."

I didn't create the line for the decided Trumpists gathered here.

mockturtle said...

Joanne Jacobs opines: I think Elizabeth Warren is now the most electable Democrat with a shot at the nomination. But I don't see Trump voters switching to Warren, even if she is able to move to the middle for the general election.

Agree on both counts.

FrankiM said...

“Earlier this month, immigration attorneys and their clients who applied for medical deferred action or a renewal of it began receiving rejection letters in which USCIS said it was no longer considering requests for the program. The letters also said immigrants not authorized to remain in the country should leave within about month or face deportation.

Like the more commonly known Obama-era Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) initiative for undocumented immigrants who came to the U.S. as children, medical deferred action was part of small set of temporary relief options offered by USCIS. The immigrants granted this reprieve would not be prioritized for removal by the government, which would exercise prosecutorial discretion.”

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/medical-deferred-action-more-than-100-lawmakers-decry-decision-to-stop-health-program-for-sick-immigrants/

Paul Ciotti said...

Mike Sylwester said...
President Trump sends dog whistles to White Supremacists.


What is it that the Democratic presidential candidates send to Marxists, socialists and other progressives?

Fen said...

Mark: "Now I need to find something else to complain about."

I have a list you can borrow if you run out of ideas.

tim in vermont said...

"I didn't create the line for the decided Trumpists gathered here.”

So it’s not a lie if you call us Trumpists.

gilbar said...

hey Igna?
IF the family came to the U.S. legally in 2016 ?
WHY are they being deported?

IF you were capable of READING the things that You cut & paste; you'd see that they DIDN'T come here legally, they were illegals; that O'Bama decided (by executive order), would not be prioritized for removal by the government

A Lot of people here think you're stupid; WHY IS THAT?

gilbar said...

IF you want to cut and paste, here's one for you!
Poll Finds 100% Of People Who Are James Comey Believe James Comey Did Nothing Wrong

FrankiM said...

“Immigrants with disabilities and rare conditions sometimes come to the US explicitly to seek health care as a result of a lack of rehabilitation services and substandard medical treatment available in their home countries. They also come at the invitation of US physicians conducting clinical trials of new therapies. By removing allowances for immigrants in treatment, the Trump administration is endangering people’s rights to health and life.”

https://www.hrw.org/news/2019/08/30/trump-administration-deport-sick-children-people-disabilities

Mark said...

Elizabeth I'm-gonna-get-me-a-beer Pocahontas ain't going to do what Hillary could not do.

Fen said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Fen said...

Frank: "heartless deportation of sick immigrant children"

You use the bodies of dead school children as props in building your soapbox on gun control. Bodies stacked waist high for you to stand upon.

You are not allowed to use the word "heartless"

And you don't give a damn about "Teh Children". You had nothing to say when Obama was building "cages" to put these kids in. You won't even admit that the photographs you use were from the Obama era.

Jim at said...

Trump wants to deport illegals? Good.
Trump wants to deport sick illegals? Better.

Inga thinks that's heartless? Tough shit.

Big Mike said...

The Dems ought to look and the mirror and ask themselves how utterly wretched must they be if folks voted for Trump over them?

What Mark wrote at 11:51. Normally the losing party in a big election does some self-examination and studies lessons learned. Democrats, like the Bourbons of old, have learned nothing, seemingly cannot learn anything. They apparently have nothing left but hoaxes and hate.

Hispanics who went through the all the hoops in order to be legally present in this country hate open borders. Thanks for their votes, Dumbocrats.

People who’ve had their work hours cut because of Obamacare rules are not as appreciative as Dumbocrats thought they’d be. Meanwhile people paying three or four or more times as much for the same — or worse! — healthcare coverage were just thrilled to be called “racist” for complaining. Thanks for their votes, Dumbocrats.

Those are only two examples; there are many more where they came from.

Seeing Red said...

They’re not immigrants; they’re medical tourists.

They’re not staying.

And they’d have the proper paperwork.

Seeing Red said...

How can one argue we have rotten health care here and then argue we need to let people in to get the rotten health care?

Because theirs is worse?

Birkel said...

Why won't we subsidize the medical treatment of foreigners?
A question asked only by Useful Idiots and Leftist Collectivists.

Normals ask "Why are we doing that in the first place? And why did Obama change the rules to favor illegal immigrants?"

Kevin said...

"Try to imagine yourself into the shoes of someone undecided on whether to support Trump in 2020. What argument against him do you think you'll find most persuasive?"

You don't have to imagine. These people are all around you. You could just ask some of them.

Unfortunately, the Democrats either severed all ties with these "Nazi collaborators" or made sure none of them would ever admit they're not 110% anti-Trump.

Because that's how most people deal with friends, relatives, bosses and co-workers who've lost their fucking minds.

FrankiM said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
FrankiM said...

For the ignorant, you know who you are, who don’t seem to understand why this new policy change is heartless and cruel. Documented or undocumented is not the entire argument. The argument is that we as a nation must rise above petty hate and bigotry and not lose our own humanity.

‘In August alone, the Trump administration laid out plans to make it more difficult for legal immigrants to use social services, eliminate limits on how long families can be detained at the border, and stop providing flu vaccines to migrants held in border detention facilitiesThe administration was proud enough of these efforts to announce them publicly, but there was one move so despicable that they apparently felt it would be best to roll it out quietly.

But there was one move so ugly that the Trump administration, apparently, felt it would be best to roll it out quietly. On August 7th, the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) quietly eliminated a medical deferred action program that allowed severely ill undocumented immigrants and their families to remain in the United States to receive potentially lifesaving treatment. The decision to axe the policy was not announced publicly. Instead, families with pending applications were notified through letters from immigration officials informing them they have 33 days to leave the country or risk facing deportation. USCIS confirmed this week that it was ending the program.”

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/trump-administration-deportation-children-medical-care-878160/

Kevin said...

"Try to imagine you've heard the Democrats scream for three solid years that Trump is a Russian agent and about to be impeached at any moment. What argument do you think someone not also mentally deranged might consider to give these people control of the entire federal government?"

Birkel said...

Americans should pay for other people's stuff.

Run with that argument.
And don't forget the scissors.

FullMoon said...

The family came to the U.S. legally in 2016 and applied for "medical deferred action," a program that allows immigrants to receive life-saving treatment for up to two years. But, this week they received a denial notice, giving them 30 days to leave the country or face deportation.

2019
-2016
_________
3

Goodbye.

Fen said...

"Goodbye."

Exactly.

Is immigration good for the country?

Yes

Should we have rules about immigration?

Yes

Should those rules be enforced?

Yes

If you answered yes, you are a xenophobic bigot

LOL. Get fucked.

Big Mike said...

I think Elizabeth Warren is now the most electable Democrat with a shot at the nomination. But I don't see Trump voters switching to Warren, even if she is able to move to the middle for the general election.

Joanne Jacobs and mockturtle agree on that, but I want to go a little farther. How will real black and Hispanic voters react to a whiter-than-white-bread university professor using alleged family lore to claim to be a POC? That will be an interesting question to see answered. I see at least some Democrat voters switching to Trump or sitting it out just on this issue.

Fen said...

FrankiM: For the ignorant, you know who you are

Uhm... Ignorant people aren't aware they are ignorant. Dumbass.


we as a nation must rise above petty hate and bigotry and not lose our own humanity.

You first, hater.

FullMoon said...

(Lying Democrat FrnkfarterM)

Inga said...

Althouse, you are so transparent. You respond to Chuck and now to myself in this fashion while ignoring Drago and others who you are aligned politically with. Ugh, what a disgusting forum you provide and contribute to.

Ugh disgusting place. Yes it’s time I removed myself.

2018

Temujin said...

Reading Ben's comments. He still doesn't get it. Most Dems don't. They've tried most everything they could, including an attempted coup, to get to him. Nothing yet. So they're now blanketing anyone who voted or will vote for him as a racist/white supremacist/NATIONALIST!!

While the Dems keep digging at ways to undermine the rest of us and our vote, we're all watching. When they send up socialists to tell us how to think and what they're going to force us to do when they have power, we're listening.

Ben-we're listening and have been for years. That's how and why Trump got elected. Ben- do you know how to listen?

Seeing Red said...

As the mother of a legal immigrant and naturalized citizen,

I had to cough up 3 years of tax returns, leave them at an embassy and sign an agreement to totally support/be responsible for said said legal immigrant for 5 years. NO AID WHATSOEVER.

So what’s your beef?

If it’s good enough for Americans....

Besides, nothing has or is preventing Mexico from building their hospital facilities and do this.
Nothing is preventing Mexico from giving out immunizations on their side of the border.

Stop infantilizing them.

Paul Ciotti said...

FramnklinM: For the ignorant, you know who you are, who don’t seem to understand why this new policy change is heartless and cruel. Documented or undocumented is not the entire argument. The argument is that we as a nation must rise above petty hate and bigotry and not lose our own humanity.

I wish someone would say how many illegal immigrants get come to America every year in order that we don't lose our humanity. One million? Five million? Ten million? Unlimited? It's not our decision to make? The immigrants themselves should decide how many get to come here every year?

A lot of us are curious. Give us a number. And just saying, as many as want to come, is not a number.

dreams said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Seeing Red said...

And nothing is preventing you from contributing from your own pocket.

dreams said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Birkel said...

Big Mike:
Obama won 52.9% of the vote with historic turnout across multiple sub-groups.

Elizabeth Warren would do worse with blacks, latinos, and natives.
Worse than Hillary, that is.

Elizabeth Warren's ceiling is 46%.
Calling it here.

FullMoon said...

Gee Whiz, your stupid:

".. medical deferred action was part of small set of temporary relief options offered by USCIS."

TEMPORARY
[ˈtempəˌrerē]
ADJECTIVE

lasting for only a limited period of time; not permanent.

FrankiM said...

‘Ben-we're listening and have been for years. That's how and why Trump got elected. Ben- do you know how to listen?’

Most Americans have been listening, but what we hear is very different.

John henry said...

What a load of dumbth from RCOcean. But that's typical of any day ending in y.

The federal tax rate on wealth for the past couple of hundred years has been zero

It is hard to see how pdjt could lower a zero percent tax rate.

Perhaps what rc is thinking is that PDJT lowered taxes on high income earners.

Actually he increased taxes on high earners pretty significantly.

On low and middle earners as well.

Rc has a lot of trouble with economics. Can't seem to understand the difference between tax rates (down under pdjt) an taxes paid (up substantially under pdjt)

Either too dumb to understand what he is saying or lying. I'm going with lying. But it may be #1 and he is just mouthing talking points.

John Henry

FullMoon said...

Elizabeth Warren does not have a good speaking voice.
She cannot overcome that.

She is a weak old lady. She cannot overcome that.



JackWayne said...

I completely disagree that Warren is heir presumptive to Biden. Her negatives on using a fake minority status to get a cushy job won’t play well in America. Trump will crush her on that score alone. I believe it will be Sanders. His baggage came out 4 years ago and will be discounted.

dreams said...

"I believe it will be Sanders. His baggage came out 4 years ago and will be discounted."

LOL.

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