Althouse: At the Saturday Night Cafe...

August 31, 2019

At the Saturday Night Cafe...

... talk your Saturday night talk.

156 comments:

Ken B said...: Farmer
Those Sailer links about gladwell were good. The other one not so much.
Gladwell is frustrating because he writes so well, and he is interested in stuff, but so often his conclusions are hopeless.; 8/31/19, 8:44 PM
Ralph L said...: Today's quota of dirty double entendres: volunteers-polish-giants-erection-hand; 8/31/19, 8:51 PM
J. Farmer said...: @Ken B:

Probably the single most influential book ever written on the origins of World War I is Barbara Tuchman's The Guns of August, and Tuchman was a phenomenal writer. But as history, The Guns of August is pretty useless.; 8/31/19, 9:13 PM
Churchy LaFemme: said...: Today's quota of dirty double entendres; 8/31/19, 9:14 PM
Seeing Red said...: Via Lucianne:

Judicial Watch announced today that a federal judge granted seven additional depositions, three interrogatories and four document requests related to former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton’s use of a private, unauthorized email server. Hillary Clinton and her former top aide and current lawyer Cheryl Mills were given 30 days to oppose being deposed by Judicial Watch (Judicial Watch v. U.S. Department of State (No. 1:14-cv-01242)).; 8/31/19, 9:19 PM
Jaq said...: Anybody having any luck with the aurora tonight? KP 5 should be visible where I am, but nothing so far.; 8/31/19, 9:21 PM
narciso said...: That was something i think max hastings noted in his tome on the subject, if the black hand hadnt had state support, what might have come of it.; 8/31/19, 9:22 PM
narciso said...: It applies tp tbat thread about oswald as well:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.warhistoryonline.com/articles/the-shots-that-started-world-war-one-the-conspiracy-and-belgrade-part-2-by-james-lyon-phd.html/amp; 8/31/19, 9:25 PM
Fen said...: Democrats are praying that the Hurricane stops shifting north into the open sea and slams into Florida, so that they can blame the loss of life and devastation on Trump.

When can we start shooting these rats?; 8/31/19, 9:25 PM
Seeing Red said...: Lucianne:

Citing errors in the six-week trial that led to a multimillion-dollar legal judgment in favor of Gibson's Bakery and the Gibson family, Oberlin College has asked a judge for a new trial to be held in the case.

More than 540 pages of legal arguments and exhibits were filed Aug. 14 by Oberlin College attorneys asking Lorain County Common Pleas Judge John Miraldi to order a new trial.

Attorneys for the Gibsons fired back with more than 125 pages of legal arguments and exhibits of their own Wednesday, asking Miraldi to strike down the college's request....

We want a redo because our lawyers didn’t win.; 8/31/19, 9:26 PM
narciso said...: Something else that requires a pillow:

https://pjmedia.com/trending/biden-undocumented-children-become-americans-before-a-lot-of-americans-become-americans/?fbclid=IwAR1BZiiQBxggaVMGVFwuF1XnwgeboAzAgOYuPU4rVKOatTRSwFccU8O8xGs; 8/31/19, 9:28 PM
narciso said...: He was somewhat sane here:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/20committee.com/2015/05/12/that-terrible-tuchman-woman/amp/; 8/31/19, 9:35 PM
J. Farmer said...: @narciso:

That was something i think max hastings noted in his tome on the subject, if the black hand hadnt had state support, what might have come of it.

If you are referring to Catastrophe, I have not read it. But I am curious, what "state support" was he referring to?; 8/31/19, 9:36 PM
narciso said...: Russian aupport of serbiam military intelligence as noted in the earlier link.; 8/31/19, 9:37 PM
Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...: small world

So, the FBI investigating Epstein, using search queries run by Ghislaine Maxwell's twin sister's software.
Jeffrey Epstein ‘Friend’ Ghislaine Maxwell Has More Skeletons in Her Family Closet Than a House of Horrors

(side note: Daddy Robert Maxwell, sold PROMIS software for the Mossad to many embassies and banks/governments. That is tracking software, stolen from DOJ in mid 80s)

Sister Christine and twin Isabel were co-founders of early search engine "Magellan." They sought to go public in the 90s but Excite beat them to it. Christine went on to found Chiliad, after Magellan was sold to Excite in 1996. Chiliad is notable--the firm's software was behind the data search technology used by the FBI's counterterrorism data warehouse. She also founded a company the FBI/DEA use to track money laundering and trafficking.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/jeffrey-epstein-friend-ghislaine-maxwell-has-more-skeletons-in-her-family-closet-than-a-house-of-horrors; 8/31/19, 9:40 PM
J. Farmer said...: @narciso:

Russian aupport of serbiam military intelligence as noted in the earlier link.

Yes, I did read that link, and I am somewhat ambivalent about it. The only source for it was a claim Colonel Apis made at his trial, and historians are pretty divided on whether or not it is true. Even if it were true that Artamonov had foreknowledge, how much he was freelancing versus acting on orders from Moscow is unknown. McMeekin wrings this claim for all its worth in his terrible book The Russian Origins of World War I.; 8/31/19, 9:42 PM
narciso said...: Intereating yes i remember inslaw and danny casolaro, the former probably informed the plot of sneakers, how much of it was true.; 8/31/19, 9:43 PM
narciso said...: His most recent book on precommunist russia is a corrective to many narratives atarted by john reed, but propagated for decades.; 8/31/19, 9:46 PM
narciso said...: The truth if it wasnt sarajevo it might something else in september or october or the following year.; 8/31/19, 9:47 PM
Bay Area Guy said...: Oregon v Auburn - incredible game. Ducks up by 1 in the 4th.; 8/31/19, 9:48 PM
buwaya said...: Re Narciso on the Russian links behind the Black Hand;

What did I tell you all about conspiracies being integral to everything?
At bottom, every event in history has at least a component of conspiracy in it.
Some of which we have an idea about, now.
One must assume that what seemingly doesn't actually did; we just lack information.; 8/31/19, 9:49 PM
Bay Area Guy said...: Fuck Oberlin and their weasel loser attorneys.

Here's the definitive article on the Oberlin fiasco.; 8/31/19, 9:53 PM
narciso said...: Indeed this was not his first rodeo
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/warships1discussionboards/1911-colonel-apis-caught-in-the-act-t13323.html

The good col resembles pavrelic in croatia or band er ra in the ulraine; 8/31/19, 9:53 PM
J. Farmer said...: Regardless of a lot of the revisionism that has occurred in the second half of the 20th century regarding the origins of WWI, I think the so called "Fischer thesis" still stands. And in fact, a strong case was made for it at least a decade earlier in Albertini's three-part Origins of the War of 1914.; 8/31/19, 9:56 PM
Guildofcannonballs said...: I'd like to apologize to Farmer, who has engaged my personona online "Guildofcannonballs" in earnest.

60% of my posts are trolling.

I feel I enhance what I could never create, the great Althouse blog here, by my trolling.

Mr. Farmer has engaged with a troll not out of naivetie, but knowledge.

I respect that.

But I post with a storm forming mindset, not conducive to honest converstation. I fell Alhtouse enable this.

GO to JOM if for just one minute you don't have to be a prick, and just be and let others be.; 8/31/19, 10:01 PM
David Duffy said...: My son and daughter-in-law live in the Sierra mountains. The Mrs and I watched their dog, a husky, while they traveled in Europe. The dog never barked once in the two weeks we had him. Dogs seem to be constantly barking in our neighborhood. What's with the husky breed?; 8/31/19, 10:02 PM
Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...: 17-year-old student arrested, charged with 9 counts of attempted murder for shooting at football game--
would the shooter being non-white complicate the narrative?

https://www.wishtv.com/news/national/17-year-old-student-arrested-charged-with-9-counts-of-attempted-murder-for-shooting-at-football-game/; 8/31/19, 10:02 PM
narciso said...: Well that will go down the memory hole.

So that is the reason behind the peculiar syloggisms of your posts.; 8/31/19, 10:12 PM
Original Mike said...: Yeah, Trump's way out of line on tariffs.

t doesn't help that it's hugely expensive to get US cheese across the pond. There are some massive tariffs on US cheese - currently set by the EU and the UK, depending on the type of cheese - to come into the UK.
"It's up to £60 ($73) a kilogramme," says Mr McGuigan. "If you're trying to sell to a British customer, you're saying, 'we have this cheese that's amazing - it's £60.' You can see a lot of shoppers going, 'hmm I'm not sure.'"
"They are good cheeses. But there are some good cheeses [from elsewhere] which are half price."
Cheddar, for example, is subject to a 167.10 euro ($187.72) per 100kg tariff, with Colby at 151 euro ($166.92) per 100kg.; 8/31/19, 10:13 PM
Ken B said...: Farmer
I read Guns in high school. I really liked it, and I would say “useless” is an exaggeration, and it gives a good chronological account of the first month, but I know what you mean. It’s part of the “Oh What A Lovely War” conventional wisdom, which misses a lot. A really good book is Myths of The Great War. And Fromkin's Europe's Last Summer is superb on the origins. Pretty much proves Berchtold and Moltke seized their chance to deliberately start the war.; 8/31/19, 10:15 PM
J. Farmer said...: I'd like to apologize to Farmer, who has engaged my personona online "Guildofcannonballs" in earnest.

I wasn't aware an apology was in order, but I'll gladly and graciously accept it.; 8/31/19, 10:16 PM
narciso said...: Well that explains the cheese ahop sketch, i knoe that was from 45 years ago.; 8/31/19, 10:16 PM
Original Mike said...: finest in the district; 8/31/19, 10:19 PM
Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...: in relative terms?

Top Trump campaign official reveals which 2020 Dem the Trump campaign fears most

https://www.theblaze.com/news/top-trump-campaign-official-reveals-which-2020-dem-the-trump-campaign-fears-most; 8/31/19, 10:25 PM
J. Farmer said...: @Ken B:

I read Guns in high school. I really liked it, and I would say “useless” is an exaggeration, and it gives a good chronological account of the first month, but I know what you mean

For me, the most glaring error in Tuchman's account is that she pays next to know attention to the events between the June 28th assassination and the July 23rd Austro-Hungarian ultimatum to Serbia.; 8/31/19, 10:27 PM
Churchy LaFemme: said...: I enjoyed Europe's Last Summer: Who Started the Great War in 1914? by David Fromkin

(His answer: mostly Germany)

It's a reasonably short, entertaining read.; 8/31/19, 10:27 PM
narciso said...: Well it doesnt serve her purposes to do, i think thats something schindler touched on.; 8/31/19, 10:30 PM
mockturtle said...: Ralph L offers: Today's quota of dirty double entendres: volunteers-polish-giants-erection [by] hand

Not sure that's really a double entendre. Guess I somehow missed this monument on my trips to the UK. Brits do have a sense of humour.; 8/31/19, 10:31 PM
Ken B said...: Farmer
which is pretty much what the Lovely War conventional wisdom does: rather than actual decisions being made by actual people the “machinery” just causes the war. Alliances, ententes, railroad gauges, mobilizations and presto War, just the machine at work.; 8/31/19, 10:32 PM
etbass said...: Auburn pulled it out in the last 10 seconds with a TD pass.; 8/31/19, 10:34 PM
narciso said...: Which is a misreading, personnel is policy after all, now the alliance structure suggests there would be a flashpoint at some time in the future, but not at that instance.; 8/31/19, 10:36 PM
J. Farmer said...: It's a reasonably short, entertaining read.

Yes, Fromkin's work is always the one I recommend to anyone interested in the subject. Albertini's three-volume work or Fischer's Germany's Aims in the First World War are denser and more thorough works but make a strong case that the threshold to war was crossed once Germany supported Austro-Hungary's decision to deliver an ultimatum to Serbia designed to be rejected and thus provide a pretext for war. Tuchman's thesis of bitter rivalries and miscalculations as the cause of the war is simply not tenable. Though I have not read Hasting's work, it is my understanding from listening to him speak on the subject that he agrees with this assessment. I particularly enjoyed his thrashing of Ferguson's argument in The Pity of War.; 8/31/19, 10:39 PM
Mark said...: OK -- something else I found to complain about.

So the other day my modem starts blinking and stop working. I check with Comcast and they say that their nothing wrong on their end. Conclusion: the several-year-old modem is dead.

I buy a new one. I unpack the new modem and read the instructions about set-up. Then I go over to the cable connection to plug it in.

That's when I notice the old "dead" modem has all lights lit, indicating that it is functioning. Go over to the computer and . . . sure enough, I've got Internet access again.

Now I have a brand-new modem. Which I'll leave in the box. And probably by the time the old one really does die, as in dead-dead, the new one will be obsolete and I'll need to buy yet another.; 8/31/19, 10:40 PM
PluralThumb said...: I love that New York always has bananas year round.
I get constipated from eating too many too often.
A guy once told me his Porsche should wipe his ass for him
the amount of money he paid.
I wouldn’t try a self-rectal exam with my smartphone.
Bananas are very deceptive with their texture.
What the hell, I’ll take 2 !; 8/31/19, 10:40 PM
walter said...: Ingachucktoofless might have excerpted:
""The one who scares me the most in the general is Kamala Harris," a top Trump campaign official told the Washington Times this week."

"The top candidates are all flawed candidates, but the least flawed is Kamala Harris," the official, who the Times described as a "key player" in the campaign, explained.; 8/31/19, 10:41 PM
mockturtle said...: Now I have a brand-new modem. Which I'll leave in the box. And probably by the time the old one really does die, as in dead-dead, the new one will be obsolete and I'll need to buy yet another.

Mark, could you possibly...return it?; 8/31/19, 10:45 PM
Guildofcannonballs said...: Ian's pizza sucks ass.

That cunti[ozza would be insulting to deliver to anyone you don't hate, but I suspect the owner's hate employees extends to the workers and the shit's who sell the sub-optimal ass-pizza.; 8/31/19, 10:45 PM
buwaya said...: Personnel is policy indeed.
When you have small groups dominating policy everything is likely to be narrowly personal. The factors that enter into decisions are not simply those eventually disclosed to the public.; 8/31/19, 10:47 PM
Guildofcannonballs said...: Ian's ".......
...."

vs. Jack's Jack's wins at $2.50 per pie.

THey ought to hate themselves selling such obvious shit-tasting shit pizzA.

pAPA MURPHEYS IN EVERY WAY SU[ERCEDED TJES ICES.; 8/31/19, 10:47 PM
Guildofcannonballs said...: Alrhouaewa lidcwa, .liwa in this shit yet ex;oudes how eveil toher perorl oerar.; 8/31/19, 10:48 PM
Guildofcannonballs said...: Dirtiest of dirty-habbiteros, ALthouse and the cunt-town Madison fail, unless the lucre means more than all.; 8/31/19, 10:49 PM
J. Farmer said...: When you have small groups dominating policy everything is likely to be narrowly personal.

Robert Michels' iron law of oligarchy suggests that such a situation is inevitable.; 8/31/19, 10:50 PM
J. Farmer said...: Ian's pizza sucks ass.

At first I thought that was a pizzagate reference.; 8/31/19, 10:50 PM
Guildofcannonballs said...: All glory to Althouse for not rubbing noses she could have rubbed, even though her existense involves rubbing nosses nosely.

Okay Althouse you have won.

SOme day they will know you diddn

t thous.; 8/31/19, 10:51 PM
wildswan said...: Very slowly reading Land of Hope by McClay, a retelling of American history. Working from the interests of our era, McClay brings out the point that most of the original colonies where founded following "socialist" principles. There was no "socialism" of course but the colonists in Plymouth, Massachusetts Bay, Virginia, and Georgia could not own land. It was all owned by the government or the Indians. They could not set up a business without clearing it with the colony proprietors and permission to work on their own for own good wasn't given. They worked for the good of the colony, not their own and the colony worked for the good of kingdom. Insofar as this social order was kept up, the colonies were anemic, struggling entities. When these restrictions were removed the colonies flourished, McClay shows.

The Pilgrims tried to enforce a "common course and condition" for all and to live by "the taking away of property, and bringing in community" and here is what Governor Bradford said about it in The History of Plymouth Colony:
"The experience that was had in this common course and condition, tried sundry years, and that amongst godly and sober men, may well evince the vanity of that conceit of Plato’s & other ancients, applauded by some of later times; —that the taking away of property, and bringing in community into a commonwealth, would make them happy and flourishing; as if they were wiser than God. For this community (so far as it was) was found to breed much confusion & discontent, and retard much employment that would have been to their benefit and comfort. For the young men that were most able and fit for labor & service did repine that they should spend their time & strength to work for other men’s wives and children, without any recompense. The strong, or man of parts, had no more in division of victuals & clothes, than he that was weak and not able to do a quarter the other could; this was thought injustice. The aged and graver men to be ranked and equalized in labors, and victuals, clothes, &c., with the meaner & younger sort, thought it some indignity & disrespect unto them. And for men’s wives to be commanded to do service for other men, as dressing their meat, washing their clothes, &c., they deemed it a kind of slavery, neither could many husbands well brook it. Upon the point all being to have alike, and all to do alike, they thought themselves in the like condition, and one as good as another; and so, if it did not cut off those relations that God hath set amongst men, yet it did at least much diminish and take of the mutual respects that should be preserved amongst them. And would have been worse if they had been men of another condition. Let none object this is men's corruption, and nothing to the course itself. I answer, seeing all men have this corruption in them, God in his wisdom saw another course fitter for them."

It's important to realize that socialism or as Bradford puts it: "the taking away of property, and bringing in community into a commonwealth" was tried at the very beginning of US history. The US Constitution was the end result of an experience that included determined, conscientious attempts to live without private property. So that we can think of the Constitution as something formed after attempts to live by socialism, not as something needing to be changed because it is necessarily inadequate to deal with proposals for a whole new social order which the Founders had never contemplated.; 8/31/19, 10:51 PM
Guildofcannonballs said...: Thiis is the last time I will do this:

https://profile.typepad.com/narciso791

You idiots have not a clue first\.; 8/31/19, 10:52 PM
Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...: thanks Walter!

*****
a fair question:
If 90% Of Mexican Murders Go Unpunished, How Will We Even Know Who To Keep Out?

https://clashdaily.com/2019/08/border-crisis-if-90-of-mexican-murders-go-unpunished-how-will-we-even-know-who-to-keep-out/; 8/31/19, 10:53 PM
narciso said...: There was a similar problem in the late 70s a d warly 80s in miami, the spillover from the cartel takeover in colombia, that was on a much smaller scale.; 8/31/19, 11:13 PM
Ralph L said...: Note: Guns of August

Not sure that's really a double entendre
Read the captions.; 8/31/19, 11:20 PM
PluralThumb said...: Careful mixing herb with Artificial intelligence.....

To ice cream, or not ice cream,
is that even a question ?

Romans 3:23

KJV
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

ESV
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

NLT
For everyone has sinned; we all fall short of God’s glorious standard.; 8/31/19, 11:23 PM
Guildofcannonballs said...: "converstation" if any of these ...; 8/31/19, 11:29 PM
Guildofcannonballs said...: https://cumulus.hillsdale.edu/Buckley/

Anybody frightened here?

Didn't THINK so.

You ever have a question? Buckley wrote about it better than you or I or Althouse or Trump or anyone writing today, save Steyn, so get your ass into Buckley for free via that great lover of freedom of speech, Althouse.

When you say Althouse, you've said it all free speech-wise.; 8/31/19, 11:33 PM
buwaya said...: Therefore the iron law of oligarchy ensures that at least the political history of humanity is the story of conspiracies. And I think so also much of our cultural history.

Cabals upon cabals. Do you know what you think, and why you think it? Is this all something that was decided on by some characters you have never heard of?

The only safe approach to any of this is to flee to shelter in an "unfashionable" antique port, especially ones being attacked by the powers that be, from which perspective manipulation of the contemporary is more obvious.; 8/31/19, 11:34 PM
PluralThumb said...: Althouse has created a Frankenstein of a blog.
Kudos !
& nite nite.; 8/31/19, 11:36 PM
walter said...: Ian's supplied free slices to the Act 10 protesters...; 8/31/19, 11:46 PM
buwaya said...: As for Tuchman, she had an agenda.

She was on the "other side" of the Cold War.

This is more visible in some works than others.

Each of her works, perhaps, was about a political point current at the time. It can take some working out of circumstances. She certainly was a writer about whom one should have Metternichian suspicions - "now, what did she mean by that?"

Her "Stilwell" book, for instance, gave no quarter to Chiang Kai-shek, and it was extremely poorly sourced - from Chinese sources. Why? Because Taiwan and its regime was despised in leftist circles. And it came out in 1972, just before the US-Chinese rapproachment. Which I suspect may have surprised Tuchman, given her book was in production for years before.

Tuchman was an extremely successful author. The public of the time took her books at face value. We have since learned not to do so.; 8/31/19, 11:48 PM
Churchy LaFemme: said...: I don't know why, since other than a stray VDH piece, there's no reason to, but I still go by National Review's "Corner" sometimes.

I know not to expect any (non-VDH) sanity on Trump, but I would have expected them to at least welcome Brexit, but it's been one moaning Andrew Stuttaford piece after another. Today's entry Brexit: Avoiding the Cliff (Even Now); 8/31/19, 11:57 PM
Guildofcannonballs said...: MORE
BUCKLEY 4/24/86 P 4
ever done on Theodore Roosevelt . It is Kissinger's implici t
point that Reagan deserves a biographer of the subtlety o f
Morris . But between now and the consolidation of Reagan' s
reputation in America's history, commentators need to b e
cautious . Last year, Jack Kemp press aide John Buckley ( a
nephew) bunted a question about Kemp (Wasn't he too stupid t o
be president?) by citing Reagan (They said Reagan was to o
stupid to be president) . What emerged in many news storie s
was merely : Kemp Aide Says Reagan Too Stupid to Be President .
Ronald Reagan is a very unusual man, with unusua l
habits of mind and manner . Three months ago, a retiring an d
shy editor was asked by a friend after the affair whether sh e
had been apprehensive at the prospect of sitting for two an d
one-half hours next to the president of the United States a t
the testimonial dinner . "Well," she said, "as a matter o f
fact I was . But as soon as he sat down, he turned to me an d
said, 'Priscilla, do you want to hear what I said t o
Gorbachev?" '
You wonder how such people as that can get electe d
governor of California . But then you think about it for a
while, and you find yourself wondering how come, the las t
MORE
BUCKLEY 4/24/86 P 5
time the voters were consulted on the matter, that man wo n
only 49 states .
COPYRIGHT 1986 UNIVERSAL PRESS SYNDICAT E
4400 Johnson Drive, Fairway, Kan . 66205 -- Phone 913-362-1523; 8/31/19, 11:58 PM
Guildofcannonballs said...: FROM UNIVERSAL PRESS SYNDICAT E
FOR RELEASE : THURSDAY, APRIL 24, 198 6
ON THE RIGHT by William F . Buckley Jr .
UNDERSTANDING REAGA N
When Henry Kissinger went down to Washington las t
week to address a meeting of academicians at what he though t
was a closed meeting, he spoke of Ronald Reagan and hi s
administration in terms he would not have used addressing a
Republican rally . But if you listened carefully to everythin g
Kissinger said, and weighed it comprehensively, you woul d
find him much more shocking to academicians than to Reaganit e
loyalists .
Of Ronald Reagan Kissinger said that, just to clea r
the air, he was in no way "indebted" to Reagan -- in th e
sense, let us say, that Henry Kissinger would be bound t o
acknowledge being indebted to Richard Nixon . He went on :
Moreover, if you meet Reagan and talk with him briefly, yo u
wonder how he managed to be elected governor of California ,
let alone president of the United States .
One can hear the academic audience purring at thi s
point ; but it did not anticipate what was to come .
Kissinger went on to say that in fact Reagan ha d
MORE
BUCKLEY 4/24/86 P 2
dominated the politics of California for eight years, ha d
dominated the political life of the United States for si x
years, and not inconceivably could go down as one of the mos t
significant presidents of the century .
How can this be ?
Because, Kissinger explained, the apparen t
limitations of Reagan totally disguise an intuitive grasp h e
has not only for priorities, but also for technique . Here ,
Kissinger later explained, is a man who managed to change hi s
entire staff without a ripple of change in policy, so clearl y
did he himself dominate policy . A president who clearl y
outwitted the Soviet Union through 1983 and 1984 on th e
matter of deploying theater weapons in Europe . When Gorbache v
arrived in Geneva it was widely conjectured that he woul d
"eat" Reagan alive . But Reagan's intuitive wit, his sens e
of what to get into, what not to get into -- wha t
academicians might call his reticulative sense of order - -
ended him up dominating the summit . And just as Gorbachev now
believes that by threatening a summit cancellation because o f
Libya he will embarrass Reagan, quite the contrary is likely :
Gorbachev will lose, and Reagan gain .
MORE
BUCKLEY 4/24/86 P 3
Now what got reported from all the above over ABC
was mostly the business about how Kissinger wondered tha t
Reagan ever got elected governor of California, let alon e
president of the United States . Nothing was said about th e
subtleties of Mr . Kissinger's extemporized remarks, let alon e
his statement to the academicians that they tend to suffer a s
a class because academicians tend nowadays to be eithe r
job-seekers or revolutionaries . They are, accordingly, no t
attempting to carry the load, to help public figures t o
conceptualize problems with clarity . As an example, tak e
Nicaragua . Mr . Reagan is here genuinely handicapped by hi s
rendering of the problem . Either the problem is grave enoug h
to bring U .S . action, or it is not . If it is, $100 million i s
a meaningless antitoxin ; if it is not, then we have n o
business helping the contras at all . The academic class tend s
to ignore refinements in stating the question .
One notes from Ronald Reagan Jr .'s amusing and def t
piece in Playboy magazine that alongside the son-reporter ,
hiding outside the summit room in Geneva was presidentia l
historian Edmund Morris, with the same numinous notepad o n
which he has written the first part of the best biograph y; 8/31/19, 11:58 PM
narciso said...: The problem was morris couldnt grasp reagan ams turned into a mish mash. There hasnt been a chinese author which has coldly examined the pre revolutionary period like pipes has the russiana have they.; 9/1/19, 12:08 AM
narciso said...: Chiang was what kornilov might have been, had kekerensky not lost his nerve, and john reed of portland soread his narrative. The former did crush the communist advance in 1927, and they never forgot that.; 9/1/19, 12:16 AM
narciso said...: For a time, of course halberstam. Who was an expert at missing the point, pointed to the immediate post war period as the key to understanding vietnam war; 9/1/19, 12:19 AM
Yancey Ward said...: On Brexit- shit is getting serious. I don't think it out of the realm of possibility that there is an actual coup in the UK to stop Brexit. Not a high probability, but the opponents of Brexit are basically saying right now that nothing is being ruled out.; 9/1/19, 12:22 AM
Guildofcannonballs said...: I hope God saves Buwaya's soul, same as all men.

I'll help I guess if I fucking need to and shit.; 9/1/19, 12:25 AM
madAsHell said...: Oregon v Auburn - incredible game. Ducks up by 1 in the 4th.

....when you have an asshole pasted on the back of your helmet. You're probably going to lose. I hate the ducks.; 9/1/19, 12:26 AM
narciso said...: Its about power, aince 1975, they have had it, ans its unaccountable power.; 9/1/19, 12:28 AM
reader said...: Through the power of ancestry.com and Facebook I reconnected with a cousin I hadn’t seen seen in 30 years. So as annoying as they can be, they can also be useful. So tonight I ran across a friend that my husband and I had a falling out with 17+ years ago. I could hear my mom whispering in my head, “Would you rather be right, or friends?”. So I get ready to reach out to her and notice that all of her posts are political. Not her life, kids, husband, job...Sorry, mom I’m ok being right.; 9/1/19, 12:30 AM
J. Farmer said...: @buwaya:

As for Tuchman, she had an agenda.

She was on the "other side" of the Cold War.

Accepting your premise that she was on the "other side," how does this explain her thesis in The Guns of August?; 9/1/19, 12:33 AM
J. Farmer said...: @Yancey Ward:

I don't think it out of the realm of possibility that there is an actual coup in the UK to stop Brexit.

What do you mean by "an actual coup?" Do you believe the Corbynites and the Tory back benchers are going to forcibly seize power?; 9/1/19, 12:35 AM
buwaya said...: There is an awful lot at stake re Brexit for the City of London financial industry.
Their Wall Street, and in some ways more globally significant than Wall Street.

This is a very concentrated interest, and one with near-unlimited rewards to offer politicians.

The British conservatives were and are just as split between financial and "country" interests as the US Republicans. Maggie Thatcher, the grocers daughter, was much more of the country party than the City. A hidden part of the background of the 80's-90's.; 9/1/19, 12:38 AM
buwaya said...: There are several scenarios for a British coup.
You have to understand that the structure of the British state is, just like in the US, its own power, only vaguely under control by their political system.
This includes their intelligence and security agencies.
You can guess where that lot stands re Brexit.

This situation was played for laughs in "Yes, Minister". It's possible that we will see something less amusing.

You could for instance see a "removal" of some members of the cabinet, followed by a cabinet coup, removing the PM.; 9/1/19, 12:46 AM
Michael K said...: I would have expected them to at least welcome Brexit,

No. Thatcher=Trump=Boris; 9/1/19, 12:48 AM
buwaya said...: As for Britain, and Brexit, and the US and Trump, nothing is normal and anything is possible.; 9/1/19, 12:49 AM
J. Farmer said...: @buwaya:

First, with all due respect, unless you can read Yancey's mind, you're in no position to answer my question put to him about what he meant by "coup." Second, I don't doubt that you can craft a possible scenario in which a "coup" occurs, but my question was what he thought the Corbynites and "back benchers" would do. Third, I am not sure what your "removal" is referring to. Obviously Johnson is worried about a no confidence vote over his so called "no deal" Brexit. That is why he had the Queen suspend Parliament.; 9/1/19, 12:58 AM
buwaya said...: In "The Guns of August" the blame was placed, generally, on the inherent mechanisms of the war machines, the war plans, the mobilization schedules, which made war inevitable. The people involved in decision-making are portrayed as being driven by the systems they don't really control.

The parallel to the war machines of the Cold War was obvious. It certainly was obvious to me, even at the time. "Guns of August" is a Cold War criticism, a sort of historians "Dr. Strangelove", or "Fail-Safe", or others such. In the end it is obvious that these served the Soviet line of the day.; 9/1/19, 12:58 AM
J. Farmer said...: There was also a strong Cold War incentive to revitalize the reputation of Germany. The advent of nuclear weapons and mutually assured destructons also provided fodder for Tuchman's miscalculations theory, which as I've said, I don't think is tenable. But I certainly did not read it as pro Soviet Union. Obviously the notion of miscalculations could cut against either side of the Cold War.; 9/1/19, 1:08 AM
Yancey Ward said...: "What do you mean by "an actual coup?" Do you believe the Corbynites and the Tory back benchers are going to forcibly seize power?"

Assassination of Johnson: the rhetoric right now is designed to delegitimize him, with two goals- to replace him with a no-confidence vote, and failing that, killing him. The stakes here are massive, and defeat seems to be something the Remainers aren't willing to accept, either gracefully, or at all. It doesn't have to be a conspiracy in the usual sense, just a, "Will no man rid us of this Prime Minister?"; 9/1/19, 1:10 AM
buwaya said...: With Parliament prorogued the options for anti-Brexit are limited to a cabinet maneuver, or extra-legal means that can always be legalized after the fact, or some combination.

Or they can get some court to halt the prorogue pre-Sept 10. I think this would be unprecedented in British history. Then it becomes a matter of who controls the "real" government. This itself would be a constitutional crisis. Court, or Queen?

Even the removal of Elizabeth II is a possibility. Health, you know, and an instant regency.

And an un-prorogued Parliament members get a few (virtual) truckfulls of payoffs.

These are real possibilities, for all we know. You have a bunch of very desperate, very rich people with a lot at stake.; 9/1/19, 1:16 AM
Yancey Ward said...: Obviously Johnson is worried about a no confidence vote over his so called "no deal" Brexit. That is why he had the Queen suspend Parliament.

This is not why he prorogue Parliament- doing this doesn't stop a no-confidence vote- if they have the votes, it doesn't matter- they can hold the vote this coming week before the recess. Parliament was already going on recess anyway, but will be doing so a few days earlier than scheduled and return a few days later than expected, but will return two weeks before October 31st- plenty of time for a no-confidence vote to bring Johnson down. Johnson prorogued Parliament to call the Remainer's bet now- he is telling them right now to show their cards in early September, or concede. I am guessing they don't have the votes for no confidence, but we will see this week- if they don't have the votes, then other means will have to be considered.; 9/1/19, 1:18 AM
Yancey Ward said...: If you had told me 3 years ago that the US would have had an attempted coup, I would have laughed it off. However, that would have been the correct prediction- there is no other way to describe what happened with Crossfire Hurricane and the FBI of James Comey- a flat out attempted coup, albeit one dressed up to look like a legitimate criminal investigation.; 9/1/19, 1:21 AM
buwaya said...: "Obviously the notion of miscalculations could cut against either side of the Cold War."

But only in the "west" was the notion of miscalculations useful as propaganda. In the Soviet Union and the Soviet bloc very few people were vulnerable to western propaganda, the state controlling nearly all media for nearly everyone.; 9/1/19, 1:22 AM
Yancey Ward said...: Seriously, if it looks like Brexit is going to occur without an agreement, I expect the Remainers to organize paralyzing demonstrations and riots throughout every major city in the UK. The violence will be major.; 9/1/19, 1:24 AM
Michael K said...: In the Soviet Union and the Soviet bloc very few people were vulnerable to western propaganda, the state controlling nearly all media for nearly everyone.

Sort of like the left in the US and Britain today. Not even really the left, the Establishment whose loyalties are not to be discerned.; 9/1/19, 1:25 AM
buwaya said...: True, something extra-legal is certainly in the works, and moreover whatever it is will be done in coordination with the bureaucracy, the police, the banks. Even, maybe, Tesco and Sainsbury's, and/or their suppliers.; 9/1/19, 1:31 AM
Michael K said...: In "The Guns of August" the blame was placed, generally, on the inherent mechanisms of the war machines,

I agree this was a sort of Mutual Assured Destruction cry of opposition.

I read another history, the title and author of which escapes me at the moment, which placed much more blame on France. The French were revanchists plus they were funding both Serbia and Russia at the same time. Arming both and lending the funds to buy the arms. Germany feared Russia. It seems illogical with what we know about Russia's weakness but Germany may have had genuine fear.

I've done a bit of WWI history reading lately. "Guns" I read years ago. I tend to blame the British and the Boer War for the initial alienation with Germany.; 9/1/19, 1:34 AM
Michael K said...: It's interesting to see China, Britain and the US all heading into trouble waters domestically.; 9/1/19, 1:36 AM
J. Farmer said...: @Yancey Ward:

This is not why he prorogue Parliament- doing this doesn't stop a no-confidence vote- if they have the votes, it doesn't matter- they can hold the vote this coming week before the recess.

Hasn't the House of Commons been in recess since late July? It was my understanding that the point of the prorogation was to extend the date of return from early September to mid-October?

Assassination of Johnson

I consider that a very improbably scenario. I'd put money on the fact that it doesn't happen.; 9/1/19, 1:36 AM
J. Farmer said...: But only in the "west" was the notion of miscalculations useful as propaganda.

That seems to be a very low bar for declaring something pro-Soviet. That's like a lot of people who say that certain ideas should be suppressed because they may "embolden" radicals, racists, yada yada yada. IF I write something, and it is used by someone for propaganda purposes, that does not make me pro the person doing the propaganda.; 9/1/19, 1:38 AM
J. Farmer said...: I should add that I agree that Remainers are very desperate and have been trying everything in their power to stop a "hard" Brexit. That is why I considered May as prime minister an absurdity, but I think the language of "coup" is pretty overheated. In fact, that is the precise language that Johnson's opponents have been using to describe his recent maneuvers. If I were British, I would certainly be in the Leave camp, but I do agree with Peter Hitchens' argument that the referendum was a foolish mechanism for achieving it, and he correctly predicted that it would like lead to a constitutional crisis. Of course, the referendum was a sop that David Cameron felt compelled to add to his manifesto to satisfy members of his own party and to stave off defections to UKIP.; 9/1/19, 1:42 AM
J. Farmer said...: p.s. And for what it is worth, here is Nigel Farage explaining very concisely why he doubts Johnson can deliver Brexit by October 31st, and it has nothing to do with coups or extra-judicial means.; 9/1/19, 1:46 AM
Ralph L said...: They sit for most of next week.; 9/1/19, 2:18 AM
J. Farmer said...: @Ralph L:

They sit for most of next week.

You are correct. I was just reading more on the subject in fact. Still seems a pretty obvious effort to prevent parliamentary maneuvering to delay Brexit. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Also, this "interview" of Jacob Reese-Mogg defending the government's actions is entertaining and informative, as the Lord President of the Council so often is.; 9/1/19, 2:33 AM
Bruce Hayden said...: Blogger Mark said...
“OK -- something else I found to complain about.”

“So the other day my modem starts blinking and stop working. I check with Comcast and they say that their nothing wrong on their end. Conclusion: the several-year-old modem is dead.”

Several years ago, a friend’s Comcast modem appeared to have crashed. He was advised by the Comcast technician over the phone to buy a new modem. Except that there weren’t any available for sale in N ID (CDA through Hayden to Sandpoint), where he lived through the Spokane area. Then, a couple days later, it all of a sudden worked. Turns out Comcast had a regional infrastructure problem, and their technicians had no clue. Their ignorance sucked up every modem in the area for sale. For the most part, they never admitted that it was their problem, and not a problem with modems. This friend though is extremely effective over the phone and got a technician to admit it. It should have been obvious, with traffic crashing in NW ID, and nowhere else in their network. It wasn’t, which suggests to me a fairly high level of incompetence on their part.

My advice first is to rent, instead of own, when it comes to modems. That is partially because their technicians have access to the modem and partially because when you have problems, there is a lot less finger pointing. You just tell them that you don’t care if it is the modem or the network. It is their problem, not yours. And if Comcast had had a run on their inventory of modems, they would have woken up to their network problem much earlier. Hundreds of modems were replaced, over a weekend, because of their network problem, and their inability to diagnose it.

My second piece of advice is to figure out how to sign onto your modem, router, etc. I have done this for decades, and routinely customize my network configuration - for example, by setting the IP addresses of my local network (typically, the first three levels are my birthday, since it is a non routing address). You can diagnose a lot of problems by looking at what is going on inside your modem and router(s). In particular, look at its higher level interface - with my modem here in MT, at the DSL interface. Etc. Then, of course, start rebooting everything. When I can, I soft reboot by command from my access to the modem or router, but otherwise will power down and back up. Then, move outward from that, rebooting, or at least resetting the interfaces, as you move out from the modem. You do the modem out to device rebooting because the devices further from the external network don’t always recognize when higher level (closer to the external network) boxes have been rebooted or interfaces reset. But they know to resign onto the higher level when rebooted, or have had that interface reset. This is typically automatic (except in cases like with my WiFi router here in MT, where all of my usual devices, including Dish, have been configured with static sessions, which means that they have static IP addresses).; 9/1/19, 4:45 AM
Bruce Hayden said...: One of the nice thing about this crowd of Althouse commentators is the vocabulary I learn. Dr K used “revanchists” and Farmer used “prorogation“. Both new words tonight for me. Thanks. On my iPads, I can select words, and one of the options is “Look Up”. Click on that, and you usually get a definition. And if that that is unavailing, the “Look Up” box has a “Search the Web” selection, which opens up a new search tab in Safari.

I have always had a fairly extensive vocabulary, partially due to my parents, and partly due to my being a voracious reader. But I have found a number of commenters here with significantly broader vocabularies. I like that. I also love these obscure historical and political discussions. Way above my head, but that is how you learn.; 9/1/19, 5:01 AM
Mr. Forward said...: Bruce Hayden, 5:01 Completely agree. Lookup is the Viagra of vocabulary.; 9/1/19, 6:53 AM
Chuck said...: Yancey Ward said...
Seriously, if it looks like Brexit is going to occur without an agreement, I expect the Remainers to organize paralyzing demonstrations and riots throughout every major city in the UK. The violence will be major.

I don't know -- as you don't -- if that will happen.

What I'd say is that if some Remainers wish to see chaos and disruption as the result of a hard Brexit, all they need to do is to sit back and watch. It will be bad. No need for public demonstrations.

"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."; 9/1/19, 7:35 AM
EAB said...: Something interesting for the Althouse doodles?

https://www.brooklynartlibrary.com/sketchbookproject; 9/1/19, 8:06 AM
Michael K said...: Isn't it interesting that LLR Chuck is now a Remainer, too?; 9/1/19, 8:16 AM
Michael K said...: Turns out Comcast had a regional infrastructure problem, and their technicians had no clue.

When has Comcast had a clue ? I have to use my iPhone Hotspot at least once a week when Concast goes tits up.

Most hated corporation in the world. Where I had a house in east Tucson for years we had Cox Cable but no gas in the street so everything was electric. Now, I have gas and Comcast.; 9/1/19, 8:21 AM
Amadeus 48 said...: Nothing about Chuck is interesting. Some day the commenters here will realize that.

He has posed as a Republican party man here for years. He is obviously a troll commissioned by someone to engage with pro Trump and pro GOP commenters and disrupt the discussion.

No Republican of good faith would ever refer to the Tea Party people as “Teabaggers” as Chuck recently did. He is operating in bad faith, and I have no interest in any further representations that he wants to make.

The Tea Party people may have been wrong and naive about some things, but it was a populist movement against further government intrusion into the private lives of individual citizens, depriving them of choices that individuals wanted to make about their own lives and co-opting their freedom to choose a path forward.; 9/1/19, 8:54 AM
Amadeus 48 said...: When you think about Chuck, think about the lefty tactic of “rolcon”, ROLeplaying as a CONservative. That’s Chuck.; 9/1/19, 9:00 AM
Michael K said...: No Republican of good faith would ever refer to the Tea Party people as “Teabaggers” as Chuck recently did. He is operating in bad faith, and I have no interest in any further representations that he wants to make.

Good point. I do think he is a trial lawyer in med-mal cases but his politics, like those of a majority of trial lawyers seem left, not LLR.; 9/1/19, 9:03 AM
J. Farmer said...: @Michael K:

Most hated corporation in the world.

I've never had their service, but I've heard horror stories. I was pretty satisfied with Verizon FIOS, but after they sold to Frontier, it started going downhill. I now have Spectrum (formerly Bright House, formerly Time Warner). I still get download speeds around 300Mbps, but their upload speeds are significantly lower than Frontier's. C'est la vie.; 9/1/19, 9:04 AM
Bruce Hayden said...: From Micky Kaus: Jeffrey Epstein, Red Pill
(#8 -- Why this scandal should be just getting started).

Epstein’s Still Big! "Who cares?" is what somebody asked -- loudly -- at a dinner recently when I brought up the Jeffrey Epstein case. It's the same question, in the same tone, that I used to get when I argued that the staid L.A. Times should pay more attention to Lindsay Lohan’s bad driving. The objection to Epstein seemed to be this: ‘So there's this rich perv, and he exploited underage girls. Now he's dead and they’re suing his estate. BFD. Only someone who enjoyed tawdry gossip and cheap mystery novels would think this is still newsworthy.’

Point 1: You got a problem with cheap mystery novels? This is a great mystery, starting with whether Epstein really killed himself. The circumstantial evidence on that question is mounting: Epstein's roommate pulled from his cell the day before he died, guards falling asleep, jailhouse video cameras that, gee, unexpectedly malfunction. At some point, Occam's razor begins to cut in another direction.

Point 2. Epstein was way more than just a rich perv. Does anyone really think his troubling, immoral, and illegal conduct was confined to sex? For one thing, how did he get his money? Look at the possibilities on the list -- money laundering, espionage, blackmail, insider trading… . Nobody thinks he made his half billion legally the way he said he made his money: by brilliantly managing a hedge fund. The only legit possibility I can think of is if his patron, billionaire Leslie Wexner, somehow gave him the loot. (But why?)
....
We're in the middle of a global populist surge. There's a sense that elites are not playing by the same rules as everyone else. They might not even be playing the same game. It's pretty clear that Epstein was running some kind of a sex ring for the rich and well connected. How big a ring? We don't know until we try to find out. But there are reports out there [click if you dare] that it's bigger than we might think — bigger than old, familiar Prince Andrew, involving a non-trivial cross-section of business and entertainment leaders, plus some prominent Anglo-American families and maybe a handful of nation states.

Do we live in a society where people try to get rich so they can build bigger houses, drive faster cars, wear nice clothes and send their children to the best schools. Or is that really a facade behind which they escape into a secret lawless world where they order up underage girls and boys to rape and abuse? Are we living in Disney movie or a Girl with the Dragon Tattoo movie?; 9/1/19, 9:20 AM
narciso said...: I posted that twice on the oswald and open threads i think maybe more.; 9/1/19, 9:38 AM
Michael McNeil said...: You only post text links, narciso, inconvenient to follow. Some of us appreciate those who provide full html links. Thanks, Bruce.; 9/1/19, 9:51 AM
Michael K said...: We are living in a world, I fear , that buwaya is correct to assume everything is a conspiracy that most of us sense only vaguely.

BREXIT is Trump and his revolt of the deplorables moved to UK.

I have been reading a series of novels by a Brit who is an economic historian and an excellent writer. He is probably a bit left politically but brilliantly posits that all is a conspiracy by incompetents. He is probably correct.; 9/1/19, 9:55 AM
narciso said...: Well one mighr say there are affinity networks, with common interests but they dominate the infosphere to the detriment of dissident voices; 9/1/19, 10:15 AM
Mark said...: Return it? You know how it works.

As soon as I return the new modem, the old one will crash and burn permanently.

Unless it is like HAL with its false indication of failure, in which case the modem is going to try to kill me.; 9/1/19, 10:15 AM
Bruce Hayden said...: “Most hated corporation in the world. Where I had a house in east Tucson for years we had Cox Cable but no gas in the street so everything was electric. Now, I have gas and Comcast”

Used to like Cox. When we moved into a new place in Phoenix, would go down to their store, pick up a cable box and modem, go home, plug them in, and no problems. Rock solid Internet and TV. Returned the boxes when you moved out, and that was it till next time.

Not anymore. The first time I talked to them to get service, I was lied to about transferring my number and getting bundled service. But not nearly as much as I was lied to almost every time I visited their closest store. And the more stuff you have, the worse it gets. We have everything: cable, phone (never used, since they couldn’t move my 602 number to 623 like they had promised, nor could I replace phone with security system like they had promised), Internet, and Homelife, their super duper security system.

Things went ok for awhile, but seriously haywire this year. We spend half the year away, have their security system, and have been turning the rest of the system off for that year with a “Seasonal Hold” (big call for this in PHX for obvious reasons). Previous years, this has worked decently well. They have a mode in their modems that bypasses Seasonal Hold for Homelife. I have a bunch of cameras, and in the past, I just got uploaded video clips and stills. Then they had an external hard drive that you could plug in. But this year they moved to cloud storage for continuous recordings. To compound the mess, I moved to their Panorama cable modem and mesh WiFi router so that I can reboot everything remotely. Except that when I went on Seasonal Hold, everything was cut off. Whoops. Spent four months getting Homelife and the Panorama modem to play nicely together under Seasonal Hold. Turns out everything is code driven - whatever they do requires a bunch of codes, and some of them are obscure enough that few seem to know them, nor how they interact.

Then, my partner got a call from our next door neighbor that our garage door was open. WTF? Every garage door opener is either here in MT, or in a locked file cabinet in a locked room in PHX. She had called the PD, so I went to turnoff the alarm, and found that it had mysteriously been turned off days earlier. Which I had turned on, a week earlier on the way out of town. That was why opening the garage door hadn’t triggered the alarm. Still haven’t figured that out. Got the officer in, everything looked great, he made sure everything was locked up tight, and I double check the system every day now. Major pain. Still, it was fun watching him walking around the house, checking everything out, 1200 miles away.

Tracking things down, I went to the continuous video recording that I am paying roughly $5 a month per camera for, to check some suspicious activity a day or two earlier. Nope. Doesn’t work through their Panorama modem on Seasonal Hold. Too much bandwidth. Good time to tell me that.

Ok, I have reduced Homelife service because of the Seasonal Hold. Got a credit on my bill for six months of continuous video recording. Should be set. Nope. They added $400 to the bill. Half of that was the old modem that I hadn’t returned - because I was told I didn’t need to, it now being obsolete. I got that returned. The other $200 is for a second, apparently identical, modem, that got marked as needing to be returned with the installation of the Panorama modem. They were supposed to have initiated a systemwide search for it (I never had it) when I had originally contacted them about the $400 charge. Nope. Turns out that they can’t search for it as long as I was on Seasonal Hold. Except that there are codes that supposedly allow it. So after another try at searching for it, I have to check back with them this week to see if they found it, before they shut off service, for my refusal to pay for this modem I never had. An obsolete modem that I could have picked up for half their price new.; 9/1/19, 10:15 AM
Paco Wové said...: "Some of us appreciate those who provide full html links"

And summaries of content. Summaries are da bomb.; 9/1/19, 10:17 AM
mockturtle said...: The world has always been conspiracy-driven, which even a cursory reading of the Old Testament, European history or Asian classics will reveal. Even our entry into WWII was a result of a conspiracy. Not a bad conspiracy, IMO, but a conspiracy.; 9/1/19, 10:20 AM
mockturtle said...: Return it? You know how it works.

As soon as I return the new modem, the old one will crash and burn permanently.

Unless it is like HAL with its false indication of failure, in which case the modem is going to try to kill me.

:-D Maybe a vacation would do you good, Mark.; 9/1/19, 10:22 AM
rcocean said...: Her "Stilwell" book, for instance, gave no quarter to Chiang Kai-shek, and it was extremely poorly sourced - from Chinese sources. Why? Because Taiwan and its regime was despised in leftist circles.

Great Comment! i read her book in the early 80's and was completely taken in. It only when i read more about Gen. Stilwell and the CBI that I realized what a con job it was. "Vinegar Joe" was your typical narrow minded US Army Officer. All Stilwell cared about was winning the war as soon as possible. He didn't care about "all that political nonsense" - so he wanted Chiang to get together with Mao and fight "The Japs". That we'd have to deal with China AFTER The war - didn't enter his head.

He reminds me of General Groves who supported Oppenheimer - no matter what - because all that mattered was getting "The job done". A "pragmatic" Lets win the war and worry about everything else later boob.; 9/1/19, 10:39 AM
Paco Wové said...: "He reminds me of General Groves who supported Oppenheimer - no matter what - because all that mattered was getting "The job done". A "pragmatic" Lets win the war and worry about everything else later boob."

What a bizarre comment. What the fuck are you talking about?; 9/1/19, 10:47 AM
mockturtle said...: I find Tuchman's histories to be padded with a lot of useless and superfluous details.; 9/1/19, 10:52 AM
Michael K said...: Things went ok for awhile, but seriously haywire this year.

Too many gadgets. All cable companies aren liars and cheats.

When I had the house in east Tucson, it was in a gated community. We were there every other weekend, year around, I got mad at Cox for a while until I discovered my wireless headset phone,. which I used for work, was screwing up the modem.

Here, we are non gated and houses are spread out, all on at least an acre. When we go to CA or anywhere else, we have a house/dog sitter.; 9/1/19, 11:01 AM
Michael K said...: "Vinegar Joe" was your typical narrow minded US Army Officer.

Not true. His career was ruined because he learned Chinese and FDR sent him to China. Had he been as "narrow minded" as you think, he might have commanded "Overlord."; 9/1/19, 11:04 AM
buwaya said...: Whatever Stilwells qualities, he had no understanding, or desire to understand, Chinese politics or cultural-economic realities.

Chiang's state was hanging on at the bare edge of survival.; 9/1/19, 11:08 AM
Michael K said...: Whatever Stilwells qualities, he had no understanding, or desire to understand, Chinese politics or cultural-economic realities.

Have you ever read, Gerhard Neumann;s account of his time in China in WWII ?

He is a brilliant man, the father of the GE jet engine program, but he spent the war in China fixing the AVG airplanes and getting to know the Chinese around Chiang.

Great read.; 9/1/19, 11:48 AM
mockturtle said...: None of us has the absolute truth about any facet of history. I have made the comment that, for me, the best history is that written contemporaneously. Not just because of the freshness of the situation but because the actual setting and worldviews of the era are represented more fairly. We are often stuck with historical accounts filtered through centuries of ideological change as well as with the individual philosophy of the writer.; 9/1/19, 11:49 AM
narciso said...: Well they had to hold the japanese forces as well as mao, of course there was corruption under such an enterprise, but not enough to justify the truman white paper.; 9/1/19, 11:49 AM
Jaq said...: Changing my handle because AAT (And Another Thing) is too close to AA.

Plus I like Skylark.

Skylark: : To run up and down the rigging of a ship in sport.; 9/1/19, 12:12 PM
Rusty said...: Amadeus 48 @ 9:00 AM
I don't think of him at all. It makes the thread more readable.; 9/1/19, 12:21 PM
Narr said...: Yeah, Babs T. was really good at color and sweep, but pretty shallow in analysis. I haven't read Hastings on WWI but based on his end-of-WWII books he's a great compiler of anecdote and incident--NTTAWWT.

Ferguson, who I normally respect, is just foolish in his What-If Britain Stays Out in 1914? scenario. As if the fookin Krauts would go all peaceful and benign once they had proven their superiority on Europe . . .

Nolan argues in "Allure of Battle" that short-war illusions were the basis of German civilian and military thinking; OTOH it would be a mistake to discount very real German fear of growing Russian strength as a factor. OTOOH, there were several thresholds that had to be crossed in 1914 and the Russians were the ones that made the crisis a direct GP-to-GP one. FWIW it's clear to me that the least blameworthy of the Continental GPs was France.

History as a discipline is more than a set of contemporaneous accounts, and the advantage of distance lets us see things that our witnesses could not--we can't HELP but see things differently, so we should take advantage of that fact. I spent decades working with primary resources for my own and others' research, so I've lived in that world.

Filtering is inevitable, but believe it or not historians (at their best) are well aware of the pitfalls of source location, selection, and interpretation.

Narr
Argument without end; 9/1/19, 12:36 PM
mockturtle said...: My motto is: Give me the facts and I'll do the analysis.; 9/1/19, 12:57 PM
Michael K said...: FWIW it's clear to me that the least blameworthy of the Continental GPs was France.

There is another side to this. I wish I could remember the source but France was selling arms to Russia and Serbia and lending the money to them to buy the weapons.; 9/1/19, 1:15 PM
Narr said...: French investment in Russia was the main financer of Russian railroad building, which was one of the main concerns for the Germans, who saw being matched in strategic mobility as a grave threat.

That said, it can't seriously be argued that the main factor(s) in the outbreak were not German and Austrian ambitions and fears. Hew Strachan's account is traditional and convincing (but it has been a few years since I read it).

I'll throw out Eckstein's Rites of Spring as a good first look at the cultural meanings imposed on the war by the main participants as it evolved.

As to "the facts," good luck finding them without the work of historians and archivists!

Narr
Alas, Nolan just failed my "Von Paulus" test. Sad!; 9/1/19, 2:54 PM
mockturtle said...: Did I say I find them without historians and archivists? Of course I didn't.; 9/1/19, 3:05 PM
mockturtle said...: Sometimes men [and women] who write history think they are more important than those who make history. Just sayin'.; 9/1/19, 3:07 PM
Narr said...: No, you didn't mockturtle-- what historians (leaving aside Tuchman) do you trust nowadays?
You've mentioned Carlyle on the French Rev--have you read Schama?

Narr
"Well-behaved women rarely make history." Indeed, and neither do well-behaved men.; 9/1/19, 4:01 PM
mockturtle said...: I don't 'trust' any of them, which is why I read several histories of every event of interest. Yes, I have several of Schama's books at home.; 9/1/19, 4:46 PM
mockturtle said...: I think one problem with a lot of historians is that they are iconoclasts at heart and often want to minimize the importance of a great man or woman. Not to say this shouldn't be done but one can read everything from 'Napoleon was a great man' to 'Napoleon was not really a great man' and a lot in between. [BTW, I have little interest in Napoleon, per se, but agree that he was a great general and a great man. And the fact that he was deemed do during his career made his feats possible. If that makes sense. It makes sense to me.]; 9/1/19, 4:51 PM
mockturtle said...: Deemed so, not deemed to.; 9/1/19, 4:52 PM
Michael K said...: it can't seriously be argued that the main factor(s) in the outbreak were not German and Austrian ambitions and fears.

Not so much German but Austria Hungary was having all sorts of trouble with its ramshackle empire.

There is even a school of thought that Rudolf was offed by his father, the Emperor, because he was flirting with Hungarians, and Maria was offed to hide the facts.

I've been to the Baroness' grave. The hunting lodge was demolished and became a convent to pray for Rudy.

I still believe that the Boer War was a factor in alienating Germany from Britain.

By the way, the cafe posts are the first place I go each day. Althouse has some odd tastes in topics.; 9/1/19, 5:49 PM
Michael K said...: Yes, I have several of Schama's books at home.

I've read "Citizens" several times. What else do you have ? I tried to read "Peasants into Frenchmen, " by Weber but got bogged down.; 9/1/19, 5:53 PM
mockturtle said...: Michael, I think bought 'Citizens' on your recommendation, as I was on a French Revolution spree. And another about the Paris terror, the name of which escapes me now. It was organized around the various players in the FR rather than on the chronology and was very interesting. I learn something from every source and that's why I binge read. When I was 22 I read everything I could get my hands on about Cardinal Richelieu, the only Frenchman who ever interested me.

The other Schama books I have--I think the titles are correct, as I'm not home yet--are The History of Britain [Good, but not the best history of Britain I have] and one about slave ships called, Rough Passage or something like that. It was a long time ago that I read that and don't remember much about it but am meaning to read it again so I kept it.; 9/1/19, 6:26 PM
Michael K said...: I started reading "the Campaigns of Napoleon" but I read it on the back patio and it has been too hot the past two months so I will resume next month.

I have recommended Sabatini's novel "Scaramouche" for those who have not read much about the FR. His history is quite good and I have spent some time reading about 15th century Po Valley. He was a very interesting guy. An expert on fencing, for example, and it is a significant part of "Scaramouche."

"Paris in the Terror" is another that is good. It may be out of print but ABE books might find a copy. Another good one is "Fatal Purity," a biography of Robespierre.; 9/1/19, 6:54 PM
mockturtle said...: Yes, Paris in the Terror is out of print but I was able to get an old edition via Amazon.; 9/1/19, 6:59 PM
Narr said...: I trust historians who have shown themselves trustworthy--that doesn't mean I never question them, individually or collectively, it means I think they've made an honest effort and are not approaching the subject from too biased a perspective. Those listed on my Blogger page are just a few who make the cut IMHO. There are many others, not as well-known (ha, well-known historian).

And it goes without saying that there is no one definitive account of anything--at least not for long. Certainly not for anything as vast and complex as the FR.

As for the Boers and WWI, sure, it was an opportunity for the Kaiser to twist the Lion's tail a bit, and did nothing to endear the two empires to one another. Millard's "Hero of the Empire" is a good sidelight on that episode. I had not realized how well-known and detested young Winston was in SA, and not only among the Boers.

Narr
Bon apetit; 9/1/19, 7:07 PM
mockturtle said...: I had not realized how well-known and detested young Winston was in SA, and not only among the Boers.

And I think he was very aware of that fact. Fortunately, Churchill had a thick hide.; 9/1/19, 8:43 PM
rcocean said...: My motto is: Give me the money and trust me.; 9/1/19, 9:01 PM
rcocean said...: I concur on Loomis Paris in the Terror is pretty good. I'd also recommend Carlyle's "French Revolution" is you want another variation on the same subject.; 9/1/19, 9:03 PM
rcocean said...: I'm not a big fan of Schama - he just regurgitates old and better stuff. But he's better than Max hasting - who I loath. But then my opinions are VERY oddball and minority. Most people love him.; 9/1/19, 9:05 PM
rcocean said...: Alistair Horne used to be a very well known historian on French History that I liked. France 1940, Algerian War, The Paris Commune and the Franco-Prussian war. but he's been forgotten.; 9/1/19, 9:07 PM
mockturtle said...: Rcocean recommends: I concur on Loomis Paris in the Terror is pretty good. I'd also recommend Carlyle's "French Revolution" is you want another variation on the same subject.

Carlyle's The French Revolution is one of my all-time favorite books. In fact, I plan to read it again in the near future. As long a book as it was, I felt bereft when I finished it.; 9/1/19, 10:00 PM