August 15, 2019

"If I were a young single guy, I’d be inclined to bank a bunch of sperm, then get a vasectomy. For men, that’s pretty much the only way to achieve 'reproductive rights.'"

Writes Glenn Reynolds at Instapundit, after reading something at The Sun called "THE SPURGLARS I was desperate for a baby so I ‘spurgled’ a man and tricked him into getting me pregnant." I haven't read that yet, but I'm going to guess that "spurglar" is a portmanteau of "sperm" and "burglar."

What's the downside of the frozen-sperm-vasectomy plan? When do you reveal to your girlfriends that this is what you have done? Do you tell them what you did and why? Do you reveal your mistrust of women? Do you use the word "spurglar" in your explanation? This will affect her opinion of you. If she's thinking she wants children, maybe she's picturing a real sexual encounter, not a medical procedure. Where's the romance? Where's the profound love? What kind of father are you? And you've chosen to disconnect your sexual activity from fertility? Won't that affect your mind, your sense of power and connection to creative forces? And all because of your suspicion of women. What have you done to yourself?! Wouldn't it be ironic if the women — all the women you imagined yourself getting — didn't want you because of what you'd done and you're left with your sex-doll robot who was never going to get pregnant anyway?

297 comments:

1 – 200 of 297   Newer›   Newest»
Birkel said...

"What kind of father are you?" - Althouse

I think you missed the point.

Kevin said...

Where's the romance?
Where's the profound love?
Where’s the pumpkin pie?

— Peppermint Patty, 24

Birkel said...

"And you've chosen to disconnect your sexual activity from fertility?" - Althouse

The pill?
Abortion?

Fish.
Barrel.
Gun.
No assembly required.

richlb said...

You bring it up when you both decide it's time to have a baby and not one minute sooner. Get your laws (and judgement) off my body.

My name goes here. said...

"...And you've chosen to disconnect your sexual activity from fertility? Won't that affect your mind, your sense of power and connection to creative forces?"

It does.

Still, worth it.

tim in vermont said...

Don’t stick it in any chance you get and have some standards about emotional attachment and you will be fine. Or you can takes your chances. To me though, this sounds like when John Madden was so afraid to fly that he traveled from game to game as an NFL broadcaster on a bus. You probably have a higher chance of being killed in a car accident or catching some incurable STD ike herpes or certain strains of cancer causing HPV.

rehajm said...

Lately there has been a rising number of “spurglars” — a new term for women who “burgle” sperm by various cunning, and sometimes dangerous, means.

So 'spurgle' can mean 'pull the goalie' but whats the various mean? In England can you make a withdraw at the sperm bank without an account?

rhhardin said...

When you split up, the sex robot still gets the house.

Meade said...

To answer your hysterical questions, one word: vasovasostomy.

My name goes here. said...

What's the definition of a cad?

A man that does not tell his wife he had a vasectomy until after she tells him she's pregnant.

tim in vermont said...

"You bring it up when you both decide it's time to have a baby and not one minute sooner.”

Then you make up a story.

Jalanl said...

In a previous discussion of women tricking men to get pregnant, including grabbing sperm out of a used condom, Ann commented onJuly 5, 2013 : I think society has chosen to put the burden on men to control where they put their sperm. Imagine endless factual disputes over whether the woman claimed to be infertile or on pills. The child is real and needs support, and anyone who expressed horror — as Instapundit did — at "The Life of Julia" should understand why we hold men responsible for the consequences they risk.

To save commenters the trouble of telling me again: I know, there was an underage boy one time who was the victim of statutory rape and made to pay child support. So craft a narrow exception for people like him. The general principle is a good one.

If you're thinking of bringing up the woman's right to choose to avoid a pregnancy, let me repeat that this is a decision that properly belongs to the woman. Pregnancy occurs inside the woman's body, where the man lost control of his sperm. He should have been more risk averse.

TRISTRAM said...

Downside is reliability of the data store. Lose that, and most likely you lose your chance at progent. See also: Neal Stephenson's 'Seven Eves'

Ann Althouse said...

"I think you missed the point."

No, I didn't.

Why freeze the sperm?

If you never want to be a father, get the vasectomy. If you never want to have a deep relationship with a woman, never tell any of them what you did to yourself. It's only if you get somewhere in a relationship that it will become important. Even if she doesn't want children, she'll judge you by what you did and why you did it. You mistrusted women. You read a man's blog that advised this self-protection and used the world "spurglar." Whether you end up as a father or not, you are the person who thought like that and turned yourself into a sterile man. Even if the woman doesn't want children, she may care about the feeling that you do have the creative force within you and have not turned yourself into a mule.

My name goes here. said...

I am not saying he thought she slept around. What I am saying is that he used the facebook aging app on his kids pictures to see who the real daddy was.

Ann Althouse said...

Are men's rights guys sexy to women? Do you want to make yourself MORE incel-y? When you're all alone you can soothe yourself with all the ideas about how terrible women are.

Glen Filthie said...

Whatsamatter A-house? Getting nervous?

The fact that women have devalued themselves to the point that they can be replaced by sex toys is at least partially their own fault. Get a cat, chickie.

Roger Sweeny said...

You shouldn't be having sex without a condom anyway. There are so many STDs around. Neither of you know the disease status of every person the other has been with.

gilbar said...

If she's thinking she wants children, maybe she's picturing a real sexual encounter, not a medical procedure. Where's the romance? Where's the profound love? What kind of father are you? And you've chosen to disconnect your sexual activity from fertility? Won't that affect your mind, your sense of power and connection to creative forces?

And? this would be different from ANY OTHER MAN, that EVER got a Vasectomy?
Frankly, it sounds like something that EVERY MAN, that Ever gets a Vasectomy should do?

Marcus said...

I can't make a thoughtful comment on women who do this. You know, who try to paint the male who is trying to protect himself and his finances as bad AND don't read the article first before commenting.

THEOLDMAN

Had a woman try to trick me into paying for an abortion. I told her I had my tubes tied after my last child. I didn't. She wasn't ever pregnant. Lucky me that I recognize a scam.

Bay Area Guy said...

Prof Reynolds is going a bit extreme here. There's a much better approach:

Don't sleep with crazy Leftwing women, even the hot ones!

There's a ton of apolitical, conservative or libertarian women out there. Ya gotta find them, woo them, and reward them with good lovin'.

Yeah, the crazy Leftwing women tend to put out a lot more - but you must resist! Stay away from the woke or the crazy! It ain't worth it.

Birkel said...

Althouse at 7:48:

You definitely missed my point.
I made a joke.

Leave the earnestness to Prole.

Patrick said...

Life isso much less complicated for a guy who is married and faithful.

rehajm said...

Do you want to make yourself MORE incel-y? When you're all alone you can soothe yourself with all the ideas about how terrible women are.

(We all know that guy...but let's move on...)

Jalanl said...

July 6, 2013, Ann "my proposal that health insurance pay for vasectomies and men freeze their sperm in order to provide males with reproductive autonomy"

Harsh Pencil said...

“And you've chosen to disconnect your sexual activity from fertility? ”

Pope Paul VI has written some thoughts on this.

RK said...

Do you tell them what you did and why?

Yeah, it's a great birth-control idea. Women should be thrilled. If they're not thrilled with not having to use contraceptives, then maybe they're a sperglar.

Meade said...

Freedom of choice for thee but not for me.

Birkel said...

My joke hinged on your verb tense.

President-Mom-Jeans said...

I sense another splooge stooge post menopausal meltdown shit storm from Althouse coming on again.

tim in vermont said...

"The fact that women have devalued themselves to the point that they can be replaced by sex toys is at least partially their own fault”

You should read the website Joanne Schroeder writes for. You could be excused for thinking it was written by men as anti-woman propaganda except that would be a LOT of work to write that much.

Gahrie said...

So splooge stooges can't protect themselves from women, because women will object....

RK said...

If you never want to be a father, get the vasectomy.

Who knows this for sure at 20? Put some in the bank just in case.

whitney said...

"And you've chosen to disconnect your sexual activity from fertility?"
What! I can't believe you wrote such an absurd thing. So it's okay for women but not for men?

My name goes here. said...

"If you never want to have a deep relationship with a woman, never tell any of them what you did to yourself. It's only if you get somewhere in a relationship that it will become important. Even if she doesn't want children, she'll judge you by what you did and why you did it. You mistrusted women."

I love you Ann and read you everyday, but sometimes you have these huge blindspots.

If you were a young man and had DNA in the bank and then found someone and actually wanted a baby, you don't tell them that you mistrusted women, you tell them you mistrusted yourself. That you were afraid that you would make a bad choice about a partner and end up tied to that person for decades.

If she cannot see the wisdom in that, then it just proves the man made the right decision in the first place.

If she wants a baby the old fashioned way then reverse the procedure.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Being a Father has nothing to do with HOW the child was conceived or even IF it is your own biological child.

Fatherhood is an occupation. It is what you DO when you have a child in your life. How you raise, nurture and treat that child. Stepfathers. Fathers of adopted children. All are fathers in more than just a bioligical sense. That is Fatherhood that COUNTS.

If you never want to have a deep relationship with a woman, never tell any of them what you did to yourself.

Not at all what they are saying and completely missing the point.

The guys want to have the right to choose when and with whom to have a child. "Mothers" ** who abort their children or who choose to use contraceptives are giving the choice. Why shouldn't men be given the same choice.

**(Yes I used scare quotes. Women who abort their own children do not deserve the title of Mother. Bearing a child and being absent or abusive, also negates Motherhood....IMO)

Choosing and deliberately deciding together to make a living human being is more special, more momentous than a biological accident. And certainly more special than being tricked and forced into making a child.

Why do men not deserve the right to choose??

The man does need to be upfront about this decision early in the relationship. That way the woman can also choose. The woman also needs to be upfront about her own fertility choices early in the relationship. Honesty between partners. GASP ...what a concept!!

tim in vermont said...

"Don't sleep with crazy Leftwing women, even the hot ones! “

This is true, but as the George Clooney character said in Burn After Reading, “Sometimes you just gotta risk it.” Or something like that.

rhhardin said...

It's a good time to test the principle that all moral truths discovered by women are nagging.

Men tend to subject their moral principles to a system analysis, where women jump right to feelings.

Gahrie said...

Are men's rights guys sexy to women?

Probably about as sexy as feminists are to men.

Do you want to make yourself MORE incel-y?

So..I'm either an incel or a splooge stooge.

When you're all alone you can soothe yourself with all the ideas about how terrible women are.

Well I guess I could get a PHD and teach college courses about it like women do about men.

Fernandistein said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Fernandistein said...

That sounds like a great idea - in addition to "spurglars" there are, relatively rarely, honest mistakes.

maybe she's picturing a real sexual encounter, not a medical procedure.

Oh, the poor little dear.

I wear a seatbelt while driving because I'm a bad person and distrust everybody. Bad, that's what I am.

Oso Negro said...

I strongly encourage all men to get vasectomies, remain faithfully married to one woman and attempt to find her eternally sexually attractive, use condoms always (STDs! STDs!), buy sex robots, or become INCELs. And if you are over 50, follow modern American sexual rules - older women or boys only. Just do it. The future will belong to those of us who like to fuck fertile women and ejaculate inside them. Splooge stooge? Ha, ha, ha! I'm a splooge storm trooper, sweetie! Hide your grand-daughters.

Bay Area Guy said...

"Hi, I'm Glen. I like travel, jazz music and long walks on the beach. I also have a vat of sperm in my freezer, because I generally think crazy women will trick me into impregnating them. But that won't happen with you, because I've already had my wires clipped. Nice to meet you!"

I am not Laslo.

Birkel said...

How does one test a blind spot?
You make a joke.

Anybody want to comment?

rhhardin said...

The movie cliche for relationship deepness is whether the couple wakes up spooning or not, not how fast they rip each other's clothes off.

tim in vermont said...

"follow modern American sexual rules - older women or boys only.”

For Oso, “older” means over sixteen, when, as well all know from reading Lolita, is when they lose their charm.

Annie C. said...

Whatever happened to keep it in your pants?

Sebastian said...

"And you've chosen to disconnect your sexual activity from fertility?"

Hey, I though that was a good thing, with the pill and all. Or is the disconnection only PC if the woman does it?

Beasts of England said...

'You shouldn't be having sex without a condom anyway.'

No thanks.

tim in vermont said...

"It's a good time to test the principle that all moral truths discovered by women are nagging.”

Self interested, anyway.

tim maguire said...

When I read that at Instapundit, I immediately thought of Althouse and past threads where she has defended holding men responsible for children they father no matter the circumstances of the impregnation. She argued for absolute liability for men.

I assumed from her history that she would approve of the sperm bank/vasectomy approach.

Beasts of England said...

'Whatever happened to keep it in your pants?'

No thanks.

tim in vermont said...

"Annie C. said...
Whatever happened to keep it in your pants?”

Feminism. Invented by horny teenage boys. Change my mind.

Birkel said...

These days, even gay men should consider vasectomies because the man they're dating might get pregnant.
Listen carefully on that first date when they describe their preferred pronouns.

rhhardin said...

Whatever happened to keep it in your pants?

Pussy is as attractive as ever to young guys and produces the same behavior as always. They don't stay in relationships long, is all that's changed. Something makes women more obviously like a bad deal today.

You've got to seem like a good deal to keep the guy's interest in a particular woman. The sex won't do it long. That's why they switch today.

Fernandistein said...

Or is the disconnection only PC if the woman does it?

AA's little rant reeked of feminist cheese. I hope it was trolling rather than heartfelt, because that would be one fucked-up heart.

gilbar said...

Professor?
I know you're not one for consistency, but here's an article from your Beloved New York Times
Freeze Your Eggs, Free Your Career?

Let's review!
Women sneaking (or omitting) birth control pills? FINE!
Women getting (or not getting) abortions? FINE!
Women getting their tubes tied (or untied)? FINE!
Women freezing their eggs "for later, with someone"? FINE!
Men getting a Vasectomy, and maybe freezing some sperm, just in case?
you've chosen to disconnect your sexual activity from fertility!, and should be shot?

Gahrie said...

If a woman gets her tubes tied is it OK for a man to reject her and call her names? How about if she has an abortion? No..somehow I didn't think so.

rhhardin said...

Laughing at the guy's jokes like you did at first is a good man-retaining tip for women.

It makes it seem to him like he's appreciated instead of the opposite.

Gahrie said...

Silly incel...reproductive choice is for women!

Hunter said...

Oh boy, this post is gonna blow up. So before it does, I'll just make the point that feminists have been telling men they DON'T get a choice in whether a woman keeps a pregnancy or not, because he gave up his rights when he released his sperm. Wherever that sperm ends up in the world, so they say, he is responsible for it.

So how is a man to exercise control over where his sperm ends up? It seems to me his only two choices are to make sure every time he releases it, it's disposed of in such a manner it can't be recovered; or, go the bank and vasectomy route. Given the former option is inconvenient and short of foolproof, and condoms can fail, I see no other way for men to take the responsibility for their own sperm that feminists demand.

But Althouse seems to think (as a devil's advocate? maybe? I hope?) that men should be stigmatized for this? None of this comes up in regard to women taking the pill. I mean, this might sound crazy, but it's almost as if the goal is to make sure a woman gets to decide everything -- even what responsibility a man bears for her choices.

rhhardin said...

Fucking is less like jerking off and more like a team effort if you're trying to make a baby. There's that deepness, but that's the guy's point of view. It's probably the same for the women. It's the guy who's got to work to ejaculate.

President-Mom-Jeans said...

"Ha, ha, ha! I'm a splooge storm trooper, sweetie! Hide your grand-daughters." I'm fairly confident Althouse family tree is a genetic dead end.

Original Mike said...

"You mistrusted women."

I lock my doors at night. Does that make me a bad person?

Bay Area Guy said...

Are normal relations between men & women this bad in the modern era? True, I've been married to a great gal for the past 25 years, so I am totally clueless about the current "rules of attraction" or dating rituals, But getting a pre-emptive vasectomy after several deposits in a frozen sperm bank seems, I dunno, a bit out there.

John Enright said...

Sometimes sex wrecks clear thought, as, perhaps, it ought.

My name goes here. said...

"AAT said...
'Annie C. said...
Whatever happened to keep it in your pants?'

Feminism. Invented by horny teenage boys. Change my mind."

Almost. Invented by women who were jealous of horny teenage boys.

Dust Bunny Queen said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Wince said...

What I heard in Althouse's rapid-fire questions was what is often projected onto men internationally: a desperation to cling to existing structures of gender-based "power" through fear of rejection, isolation and retribution at not meeting the conception of manhood supposedly held by every woman in the society.

Culminating in:

Wouldn't it be ironic if the women — all the women you imagined yourself getting — didn't want you because of what you'd done and you're left with your sex-doll robot who was never going to get pregnant anyway?

buwaya said...

Left out in this is the, I think, important point that its not that these women want sperm in general. Thats something they can get with great ease from any anonymous man, entirely naturally. Or they can order it up these days, and its not at all expensive. If a woman simply wants to bear children there is nothing in her way. Viva la pepa as my abuelita used to say.

No, this is about having a child by a particular man. This is a very different thing. One can speculate about the motives, and I can think of several.

As for men, the defensive reaction seems to be rather limited in applicability as well. For one, given the above, if that is the undesired scenario, it only really applies to particular men who are in demand, so to speak, and in a position to be the target of women desperate to make them fathers. Not incels.

The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...

“Wouldn't it be ironic if the women — all the women you imagined yourself getting — didn't want you because of what you'd done and you're left with your sex-doll robot who was never going to get pregnant anyway?”

All these women want to get pregnant? The player who went to this much trouble isn’t looking for the maternal type. And, my God, his partners aren’t looking for maternity.

chickelit said...

Hunter wrote: I mean, this might sound crazy, but it's almost as if the goal is to make sure a woman gets to decide everything -- even what responsibility a man bears for her choices.

Hasn't the naked goal of feminism always been to have an advantage over men and not to be equals?

Angle-Dyne, Servant of Ugliness said...

DBQ: Why do men not deserve the right to choose??

Because reasons. You don't really think you're going to get any deeper response from Althouse on this topic, do you?

She disses men for being "splooge stooges", she disses them for declining to be splooge stooges. Even in the context of a discussion of women who are shameless lying selfish jerks who don't give a damn about anybody's "choice" but their own.

I don't see the difference between her stance here and that of the sociopathic male cad whose approach to sex is entirely selfish, but who is angry and upset about all those cold, hard, selfish, unloving women out there. "Where's the romance? Where's the profound love?" he sniffs.

And you've chosen to disconnect your sexual activity from fertility? Won't that affect your mind, your sense of power and connection to creative forces?

"Choice for me, Humanae Vitae, for thee", lol. Althouse wants two mutually incompatible things: total, unquestioned reproductive choice for women, and a culture that still adheres to a belief that there is something special and sacred about mothers and motherhood, something that all members of society respond to with respect, and feel an obligation to support. But the former erodes the latter.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Women get to choose. Birth Control. Abortion. Getting pregnant by ceasing BC or stealing sperm. Lots of ways to choose.

Men get to choose too.

Don't like their choices....find another man or find another woman.

Birkel said...

I agree with Althouse on a lot of her writings about romance, sex, and relationships. She's correct that there ought to be a deep, personally relationship before sharing sexual intimacy. That seems true. It's why people like Bay Area Guy can happily say he's been with one woman for 25 years. (Mazel tov!)

But then there's the way things actually work for the vast majority of people.

The disconnect between an academic thinker and a practitioner cannot be more noticeable.

Angle-Dyne, Servant of Ugliness said...

buwaya: As for men, the defensive reaction seems to be rather limited in applicability as well. For one, given the above, if that is the undesired scenario, it only really applies to particular men who are in demand, so to speak, and in a position to be the target of women desperate to make them fathers. Not incels.

Very good points here, and in the rest of this comment.

tim in vermont said...

"Almost. Invented by women who were jealous of horny teenage boys.”

Now you are just saying we live in a simulated universe.

Drago said...

AD: "Althouse wants two mutually incompatible things: total, unquestioned reproductive choice for women, and a culture that still adheres to a belief that there is something special and sacred about mothers and motherhood, something that all members of society respond to with respect, and feel an obligation to support. But the former erodes the latter."

The total unquestioned reproductive choice for women in conjunction with the feminist assault on the very concept of masculinity obliterates your "latter".

tim in vermont said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Left Bank of the Charles said...

Here’s how the man could pull it off with the wife he wants to have children with. First you both try the old-fashioned methods for several months, then you suggest you both see a fertility specialist. You tell the specialist, you’re my doctor and all I authorize you to tell my spouse is that I have a very low to nonexistent sperm count. Then you tell your wife, good news, back when I was younger I read a story about men who wanted to have children but had become infertile, so I had some of my sperm frozen. Maybe you’ve even told her that before you see the specialist. Don’t worry, if it’s me, we’ve got a backup.

Is that even lying to your wife? Everything you tell her is true.

Unknown said...

Obviously men are in desperate need of a birth-control pill. Or their lives must be spent in a raincoat.

tim in vermont said...

That was my suggestion, make up a story in which you look like the knight in shining armor.

Angle-Dyne, Servant of Ugliness said...

Drago: The total unquestioned reproductive choice for women in conjunction with the feminist assault on the very concept of masculinity obliterates your "latter".

Indeed it does.

exhelodrvr1 said...

Ann,
You are missing the point. He is making his eventual-choice-of-partner-for-life more special, by not allowing someone else to get pregnant with his children. If that woman doesn't appreciate the thoughtfulness behind that (even if she disagrees with the concept) then she isn't someone to gamble on as the mother of your children.

Unknown said...

How the heck is freezing sperm any different from freezing eggs? Does freezing eggs and then taking the pill "change you?". Good grief.

MayBee said...

And you've chosen to disconnect your sexual activity from fertility? Won't that affect your mind, your sense of power and connection to creative forces?

Does it affect gay men?

Sebastian said...

""I was desperate for a baby so I ‘spurgled’ a man and tricked him into getting me pregnant." I haven't read that yet."

Althouse, when you get around to reading it, would you mind telling us if the immorality of the woman's action, which she herself freely though shamelessly acknowledges, modifies what I take to be your commitment to absolute liability for the male inseminator?

MayBee said...

Being a Father has nothing to do with HOW the child was conceived or even IF it is your own biological child.

Exactly, DBQ.

I'm finding the idea that men must want to procreate every time they have sex a little odd. Which is what it seems like we are getting to between this post and the splooge stooge thing that happened.

My name goes here. said...

"Almost. Invented by women who were jealous of horny teenage boys.”

Now you are just saying we live in a simulated universe.

No, what I am saying is that (some) women (feminists mainly) have penis envy.

gilbar said...

Is that even lying to your wife? Everything you tell her is true.

Or, just be straight forward, and say:
When i was young, i didn't want kids; so i got a vasectomy.....BUT; i thought that Maybe, some time in the future, i might reconsider.... So, i froze some sperm... Just in case.

Sebastian said...

"Won't that affect your mind, your sense of power and connection to creative forces?"

And so effing what if it does? Tony K told me that defining the meaning of the universe was up to me, and me only.

MayBee said...

Unknown said...
How the heck is freezing sperm any different from freezing eggs? Does freezing eggs and then taking the pill "change you?". Good grief.


Good point.
Wasn't there a company offering to pay for women to freeze their eggs?

walter said...

"Even if the woman doesn't want children, she may care about the feeling that you do have the creative force within you and have not turned yourself into a mule."
Sounds like a good test.
Oh..now do men vs menopausal women.

tim in vermont said...

"Being a Father has nothing to do with HOW the child was conceived or even IF it is your own biological child.”

LOL! rhhardin was right! So what if your boy looks like your wife's tennis pro, you know, from the lessons you paid for, and is nothing like you! Be a good boy and raise him as if he were your own! What does being the father have to do with fatherhood!

Let’s just say, as long as all parties know the truth up front, it doesn’t matter.

gahrie said...

Almost. Invented by women who were jealous of horny teenage boys.

Now you are just saying we live in a simulated universe.


Or perhaps a stimulated universe?

tim in vermont said...

I always figured that Woody Allen started to get the hots for Asian chicks after changing the diapers of Frank Sinatra’s son.

Unknown said...

I could see how women ( especially these that are so particular about who they have a child with eugenically speaking ) would be less attracted to neutered men. And pretty much throughout history the rakes who just want to knock up everyone in sight have been pretty attractive to young and old women alike. The bad boy who just wants to screw and could care less if you get knocked up.

Unknown said...

"Blogger walter said... Oh..now do men vs menopausal women."

Heh...

Bay Area Guy said...

"That seems true. It's why people like Bay Area Guy can happily say he's been with one woman for 25 years. (Mazel tov)"

But there are 2 big caveats: (1) it's hard to stay married to an independent woman for 25 years, who has a career and is committed to motherhood. You really have to let go of ego and work things out as best you can and (2) I got married later than my peers (age 30), so my 10 years of single manhood had all the normal foibles and adventures and failed romances and crazy women who liked you and wonderful intelligent women who didn't.

So, I had a good controlled experiment as to what made me happier, the single life or the married life. Both had pros & cons. But the latter was much more fulfilling, mostly because I was fortunate to find a great gal with similar values.

Prof Reynolds, in my interpretation, is saying single life sucks, because, although sex is plentiful, crazy women will trick you into impregnating them and forcing you to pay child support. Beware!

And, my response, is Wow!, you need to date and/or screw much higher quality women!



Drago said...

Unknown: "How the heck is freezing sperm any different from freezing eggs?"

In modern parlance, because biological women who also identify as women along with biological men who identify as women (who, like, totally have "eggs" too H8ters!) are morally and socially superior in every single way to biological men who identify as men who also happen to identify as heterosexual and are caucasian.

I hope that helps.

Howard said...

Total Soap Opera by Instapussy

Seeing Red said...

...Where's the romance? Where's the profound love? What kind of father are you? And you've chosen to disconnect your sexual activity from fertility? Won't that affect your mind, your sense of power and connection to creative forces?... What have you done to yourself?! ....

This is a joke, right? Why are you burdening men with something women don’t think of?

Once again, men step up and take responsibility. At least there will be fewer abortions.

It’s their body, they can do what they want.

Wonderful sexual revolution you’re generation gave us. All the unintended consequences.

Seeing Red said...

Your.

Men are finally emancipated.

She should have gone to the sperm bank if she was so desperate.

Howard said...

Blogger rhhardin said... There's that deepness, but that's the guy's point of view. It's probably the same for the women. It's the guy who's got to work to ejaculate.It's probably the same for the women. It's the guy who's got to work to ejaculate.

I think this about sums him up

John henry said...

No, ann, you did miss the point.

Women are evil cunts out to fuck up men's lives in many ways. This is just one.

Not all women, of course. Not even many women. But enough that any man is justified in taking precautions.

I've been driving for 55 years. Been in a few fender benders but never anything where a seatbelt did anything for me. Since 1968 I won't even drive across a parking lot without bucling up.

You have enough crazy sisters out there, Ann, not many percentage wise but enough. Why take a chance.

My body, my choice. Glenn has the right idea.

And you can just fuck right with your complaining men should not defend themselves by any means necessary.

John Henry

Dust Bunny Queen said...

LOL! rhhardin was right! So what if your boy looks like your wife's tennis pro, you know, from the lessons you paid for, and is nothing like you! Be a good boy and raise him as if he were your own! What does being the father have to do with fatherhood!

What does being the father have to do with fatherhood?

Absolutely Nothing.

Being a biological participant to creating a child is one thing. Sperm donor. Splooge Stooge. Ooopsy, condom broke. You may have fathered a child, but that does not make you a "Father". Bearing a child doesn't always make you A "Mother" either.

Being a real and actual "Father" to that child is another thing entirely. Fatherhood does not require biological affinity or sperm contribution.

If you are the cuckholded man and don't want to be a Father...fine. Your choice. In fact it is probably better to bow out instead of being a forced, reluctant and resentful participant. This is how we raise emotional cripples. Bad parenting. (Mothers and Fathers)

Perhaps in the "olden" days when women were more dependent on men, unable to work or be self supporting, the cultural pressure was for the man to suck it up and become a lifetime slave.

Now that women are "equal" or even (as we are often told) superiour to men, why bother?

Oh. Well. Then there is the issue of forced financial servitude to the man for not guarding his sperm. No wonder guys are considering vasectomy as a preventative measure.

Everybody gets a choice. Except for the children that is.

Mr Wibble said...

Where's the romance? Where's the profound love?

Where's the romance,the profound love, when a woman is desperate for a kid? You're a sperm donor, and nothing more. Even if you marry, there's nothing stopping her from deciding two, three, five years down the line that she is no longer "in love" with you now that she has a kid and isn't ruled by her biology.

The real story here is the way that society encourages women to behave irresponsibly throughout there early childbearing years, rather than date with focus on finding a suitable father.

Sebastian said...

All this raises the question: why is there no pill for men?

An early vasectomy and sperm-saving plan, however prudent, seems a little drastic, even disregarding Althouse's phony pseudo-socratic questions-objections.

Sex with condoms is less pleasurable, inconvenient, and not fail-safe against the malice of some women.

So what we need, to even out the male-female autonomy thing, and preserve equal access to everyone's "creative forces," is the pill for men.

Of course, feminism being the theory that women are special, feminists would object, and any pharma company working on it might face a how-dare-they backlash.

Fen said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Fen said...

You mistrusted women.

Well duh. The majority of women are bat shit crazy.

When I first started looking for a woman to marry, I had four criteria:

1) easy on the eyes
2) good sense of humor
3) smarter than me
4) of pure heart.

By the time I hit 25, I had to add another qualifier:

5) sane

iowan2 said...

If you never want to be a father, get the vasectomy.

Who knows this for sure at 20? Put some in the bank just in case.


Males are selfish. Until they have kids.

Thats the simple truth. We do not want to grow up. This is simple stuff really. As always,YMMV, but as a whole, simple truth. Females, by nature are maternal, that twenty something hottie you painted the town red with, is living in the moment for sure, but they are already picking out clothes and schools for, HER GRANDKIDS.

My dad asked one winter morning while doing chores if the girl I met, at the next town over was worth getting serious over? I said I was 16. He informed that He knew that very well, having been 16 himself, and if I did not want to look into the girls eyes every morning for the rest of my life, I had better get my big head to take control of my little head. I fail to see how this advice does not apply today.

William said...

As I understand it, during a man's weary path through life, his chromosomes get dented. If you want to increase the chances of having a healthy child with the optimum number of fingers and toes, it's best to use the sperm of your early twenties. Whatever the pros and cons of a vasectomy, the responsible thing to do is to utilize the May wine spermatooza and not the aged in wooden casks stuff.....As others have noted, any guy with even minimal bullshit skills can talk his way around a vasectomy and frozen sperm.

Unknown said...

I can not for the life of me not understand why there isn't a pill for men. I refuse to believe it can't be done. Nor do I think men would rebel against it, it just means more fun, less worry.

Skeptical Voter said...

Nothing wrong with shooting blanks so long as you have some ammo in the freezer if you ever want to use it.

But from my observation it sometimes works the other way. I knew a young couple back in the early 80s--both successful business professionals. They wanted children, but the two of them could not conceive. Medical tests showed the problem was with the wife. They divorced; he remarried two or three years later. He and the new wife had children and all was well with him. Not so much with the infertile ex wife. Let's call it the Henry VII problem. At least the ex kept her head.

Unknown said...

Skeptical Voter: Sound about right. I mean once the other spouse can not have children, where is the love? Where is the romance? You've decoupled reproduction from sex?

Kevin said...

You mistrusted women.

Trust all women?

That's beyond belief.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Ann Althouse said...And you've chosen to disconnect your sexual activity from fertility?

I suppose this is a joke or bait/a troll; looks like we're not exactly thinking deeply on this one.


Wiki: Prevalence of Birth Control
In the United States 98% of sexually active women have used birth control at some point in time, and 62% of those of reproductive age are currently using birth control.

tim in vermont said...

"Absolutely Nothing.”

See, those absolutes are the problem. It’s very conveeeenient for the woman to aver that it doesn’t matter that the man investing his life supporting some other guy’s child. This is what I meant when I changed rhhardin’s aphorism to “self centered” instead of “nagging.”

Laslo Spatula said...

Perhaps the man could tell the potential wife that he finds abortion saddening, and as such, he did not want to accidentally contribute to a situation where a woman would have to bear the sole burden of making such a difficult decision.

The key is to watch her face when saying "making such a difficult decision": liberally-corrupted women will be trying to hide a smirk.

I am Laslo.

tim in vermont said...

"Males are selfish. Until they have kids. “

I liken it to those wasps that sting cockroaches, and the cockroach doesn’t die, it just surrenders its will to the wasp, which trims it’s antennae and backs it into a little borrow and buries it for the wasp eggs to hatch inside it and grow and slowly kill it. Nature is beautiful sometimes... sometimes, but not all the time.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Ann Althouse said...It's only if you get somewhere in a relationship that it will become important. Even if she doesn't want children, she'll judge you by what you did and why you did it. You mistrusted women. You read a man's blog that advised this self-protection and used the world "spurglar."

Which is different from reading a woman's blog that uses the term "splooge stooge," of course.

Maybe you're being serious! If so this is a remarkable lacuna in your famously broad compassion and empathy, Professor. Instead of saying "this is sad; it's sad that non-idiotic people like Reynolds would recommend this and it's sadder still that some men feel so distrustful of women that they might think it's good advice!" you instead reflexively sneer at those very men.

"Oh, you incels, look at how pathetic you are, do you think this makes you less loathsome to women?"

When the topic is racism you thunder that we must all have empathy towards the feelings of people who find this or that innocuous act racially offensive since what matters is not the objective reality (where most of us don't think anyone should reasonably take racial offense) but the subjective feelings and experiences of the person who claims to be hurt. You simply can't ignore their feelings or wish them away, and doing so makes you a bad person, you've told us.
But here there's not a trace of empathy. You might say you're trying to give the men (who may feel Reynolds is giving good advice) a tough-love look at their misjudgment and that your giving "better" advice is a form of empathy, but that's exactly what you said we should NOT do in those other cases (where we were instructed to never tell people who feel offended or oppressed how they should feel, but instead must empathize with and accept their emotions and reactions as valid and worthy of addressing and/or redressing).

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Meanwhile I guess we laugh off the offense to the man's bodily autonomy and nonconsensual nature of the impregnation. I mean, that's not even worth talking about, I guess.

Imagine it the other way, though, with a man talking about sneaking into a woman's room and injecting sperm into her while she slept, causing pregnancy...do you think the focus would be on the woman's choice of birth control or on the unbelievable violation that act, a rape, was?

Anyway Reynolds seems to be giving advice, albeit of an extreme nature, of how to avoid being a splooge stooge (even unwittingly). But that's seemingly going too far for Professor Althouse--if you don't take care of your genetic material you're a splooge stooge but if you're TOO careful with it you're a paranoid incel, or something.

Goldicocks says this level of care for one's semen is juuuuust right.

SDaly said...

We are about 2 seconds from Althouse claiming that if a woman wants to get pregnant by a man, and has sex with him for that purpose without knowing he's had a vasectomy (and without his knowing that is her true purpose), that qualifies as rape.

Yancey Ward said...

Alternatives to secret vasectomies while retaining your sexual connection of fertility:

(1) Use condoms regularly, dispose of them immediately in the toilet;
(2) Pull out and finish off in the toilet;
(3) Make sure she swallows;
(4) Fake your orgasms.

Michael McNeil said...

Downside is reliability of the data store. Lose that, and most likely you lose your chance at progent.

Not so — not unless you're expecting to die within the next decade or so — because within the last half-dozen years we've discovered the answer: stem cells in the body which can grow into wholly new (and young!) eggs and sperm. This (2013) piece in the journal Nature, “Stem Cells, Egg Engineers,” discusses this breakthrough. (Though the article only discusses the situation with regard to rats, it has since been discovered that humans too host the same kinds of stem cells.)

Furthermore, such (so-called “totipotent”) stem cells — which thence are capable of making any cell in the body, including eggs and sperm — can be created from one's own “reprogrammed” body cells.

Thus — in addition to allowing aging (or infertile or even sterile) men and women to make new, young sperm and eggs, respectively, for themselves — beyond that, “manless” women (both couples and singlets) will be able to make their own sperm, while “womenless” men will make their own eggs — all drawing from her or his own genetic heritage.

(Mind you, women for the time being will only be able to make X-chromosome-bearing — girl-making — gametes, whether eggs or sperm. Men [carrying both X and Y] won't be so limited — sorry about that, girls! Men, however — until the development of artificial wombs anyway — will have to depend on female surrogates to gestate the embryo/fetus/baby. Women, theory, can do it themselves.)

Fernandistein said...

What's the downside of the oocyte cryopreservation plan? When do you reveal to your boyfriends that this is what you have done? Do you tell them what you did and why? Do you reveal your mistrust of men? Do you use the phrase "splooge stooge" in your explanation? This will affect his opinion of you. If he's thinking he wants children, maybe he's picturing a real sexual encounter, not a medical procedure. Where's the romance? Where's the profound love? What kind of mother are you? And you've chosen to disconnect your sexual activity from fertility? Won't that affect your mind, your sense of power and connection to creative forces? And all because of your suspicion of men. What have you done to yourself?! Wouldn't it be ironic if the men — all the men you imagined yourself getting — didn't want you because of what you'd done and you're left with your vibrator and cats and gardening boy who were never going to get you pregnant anyway?

FrankiM said...

Another instance in which men have turned themselves into a victim class.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Thanks, Jalanal, for the reminder!

Althouse - July 6, 2013

Now, here's a proposal, based on all the attention Obamacare has given to women's health. Let's require health insurance to cover vasectomies. Then there will be some surgery that men have a right to choose. How's that for a pro-equality policy? Men can freeze their sperm beforehand and thereafter have perfect control over when women get hold of their reproductive powers.

2019 Althouse seems to think any man taking advantage of 2013 Althouse's proposal (even paying for it himself!) is a loser, unattractive to women, and possibly immoral/a bad person.

Did you think that back then, too, Professor (that men who used such a program would be making or proving themselves unattracive incel-ly losers) and just forget to mention it, or have your views changed since then? If they've changed would you talk about why?

RobinGoodfellow said...


Blogger Jalanl said...

If you're thinking of bringing up the woman's right to choose to avoid a pregnancy, let me repeat that this is a decision that properly belongs to the woman. Pregnancy occurs inside the woman's body, where the man lost control of his sperm. He should have been more risk averse.

8/15/19, 7:48 AM


It has a little something to do with a man, as well.

Yancey Ward said...

"What's the definition of a cad?

A man that does not tell his wife he had a vasectomy until after she tells him she's pregnant."


Ok, this is the thread winner, Mynamegoeshere.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

AAT See, those absolutes are the problem. It’s very conveeeenient for the woman to aver that it doesn’t matter that the man investing his life supporting some other guy’s child.

Perhaps I need to be clearer or you need better comprehension skills. I never said or even implied what you are stating. Maybe you should read some of my other comments. Perhaps a numbered list would help you.

1. Being a sperm donor doesn't make you a Father. Father is an occupation. It is what you DO. Bearing a child also doesn't make a woman a Mother. That too is an occupation.

2. I touched on the subject of involuntary servitude for the man to raise someone else's sperm created child. Unless he wanted to. And that he should be able to make that choice to walk away. To NOT be forced into a relationship. Frankly. That is a moral choice. Even IF forced by the legal system or societal pressures it still may not make the man a father. Being forced is wrong.

3. Discussed the financial servitude of being forced to pay for someone else's child. Am opposed to this. I am also opposed to being fooled/forced/tricked into being an unwilling sperm donor or being impregnated against your will. This is rape IMO

4. I am in favor of the bank the sperm and get a vasectomy plan. It is a choice that men should be allowed to make. Women too regarding their ova.

5. I believe that IF the man has made this CHOICE he needs to be upfront in his relationships to allow the other person to make their CHOICE. Ditto the woman.

I personally was involved in just this very scenario but from the woman's point of view. I had my tubes tied before I met my husband 28 years ago (married 25 yrs this spring).....and needed to be up front about it, so he could decide if he wanted children (while still young enough) and find someone else. If we were ships passing in the night.

Only fair disclosure. Just like a house with faulty plumbing. Notify the buyer before purchase :-)

Narr said...

Every sperm is sacred,
Every sperm is great,
If a sperm is wasted
God gets quite irate.

Let the heathen spill theirs
On the stony ground,
God shall make them pay for
Each sperm that isn't found . . .

[etc]

(C) UMPG

Oh dear, people are utilizing the liberty they enjoy to exercise choice about the exchange of fluids!

Narr
Where will it end?

cold pizza said...

Been married 34 years. When the 4th child was born 11 years into our marriage, got the V 'cause BC hormones were literally driving my spouse crazy. She had to come off the pill permanently. It was MY decision to get snipped. No more little slices fresh from the oven.

We started young and had our 4 kids before we turned 35 (10 year span between eldest and youngest). I have sibling who started families in their mid-40s before having kids and will be over 60 when attending their kid's high school graduations.

I knew at 20 where I wanted to go and how my life should be, and for the most part I've succeeded. My kids are grown, moved out, in stable relationships. Spouse and I are mid-50s and the sex is still great, and (now that the house is empty), pretty loud, too.

I pity the mass of Western perpetual adolescents who look for sex to fill that yawning chasm of loneliness that permeates their lives; who look for love via sex, instead of the other way around. They think they're going to miss out if they "settle" for 1 special person instead of multiple meaningless relationships.

I look at my siblings with kids still in elementary and high school and I'm glad I choose to have kids early, get fixed, and get on with my life. No regrets. -CP

tim in vermont said...

Maybe you need to look up the word “absolutely.”

Men who didn’t care if their wife slept around and didn’t mind spending their life advancing the DNA of other men at the great expense of their own have been mostly selected out of the gene pool for a long time. Maybe there are men that learn to live with it, but you won’t find a lot of men who like being cuckolded, outside of some dark fetish corners of the web, perhaps. This drive has been imprinted on us by evolution, so for men, actually being the father has more than a little to do with “fatherhood.” That doesn’t mean a man won’t enjoy raising another man’s progeny as his own and won’t feel love for that child and make sacrifices, but to a man, that is not the entire story of fatherhood. The use of the word “absolutely” denies that part of a man.

tim in vermont said...

I guess no true father cares if a child he is raising is his own.

walter said...

Btw, success rate of vasectomy reversal fairly good within around 10 yrs.
There is also testicular sperm extraction, since the creative force is still "in there".

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Jalanl said...In a previous discussion of women tricking men to get pregnant, including grabbing sperm out of a used condom, Ann commented onJuly 5, 2013 : I think society has chosen to put the burden on men to control where they put their sperm.

That remains one of the most memorable rhetorical dodges in my Althouse-reading history.
"Society has chosen." Well, that settles it, then: no need to debate the morality of that "choice," or discuss alternatives, etc, society has chosen. It's not quite "the science is settled" but in a way it's more definitive--the mechanics of that choice are not even conceptualized (nor are its effects), it simply exists and anyone who has a problem with it must understand that the choice has been made.

Are you an abolitionist in the 1840s? Sorry weirdo, society has decided that some people can be held as slaves.
Are you a suffragette in the 1910s? Calm yourself little lady; society has decided that women shouldn't get to vote.

It's a grand form of question-begging combined with an appeal to nature fallacy! I'm reminded of Bart's line to Marge at the end of the Monorail Song - sorry, Mom, the mob has spoken.
In that case, though, at least there was one single "vote" where you could argue a decision had been made--the more general case of "things are this way and that's because society has decided they should be this way and that's all there is to it" is much more generally applicable, being less specifically grounded. A wonder.

SGT Ted said...

All of those questions are an attempt to change the subject from men controlling their fertility with a responsible, 100% solution to that of being a selfish jerk.

"And you've chosen to disconnect your sexual activity from fertility?"

This is the entire foundation of the Women's Liberation movement of the 1960s and the pro-choice movement.

The rest of Ann's questions are simply a grotesque attempt at female shaming in order to control men's fertility in service to female desires in regards to child bearing. It's good to know how females think, though.

When men say such things to women in regards to control of their body, they're portrayed as sexist, controlling abusers. Any woman that would say any of those things to a partner is waving HUGE red flags as to her controlling nature.

This post reveals the entire self serving and hypocritical bullshit of women in regards to reproductive rights. Thanks for revealing that women aren't really pro-choice when it comes to men's reproductive rights.

His body, his choice, you sexist pigs.

JAORE said...

Hi, I'm Harold. I'm 32. I live at my parents home.... in the basement. But it's REALLY nice. I can't get laid. Heck,I can't even get a date. My Mom turned me down for the Prom. But I'm going to have my sperm frozen so that some be-yotch won't trick me into giving her my precious seed to have babies.

Makes perfect sense.

SGT Ted said...

You're trying to turn men unilaterally controlling their fertility, like liber4ated women do routinely, into some sort of selfish, "incel" behavior?

You need to get your head right, Ann. Your position is completely sexist and hypocritical.

Seeing Red said...

Lolol. Men are just responding to outward stimuli.

Bay Area Guy said...

On the great sperm debate, I'm scoring it: Althouse 4, Reynolds 2.

So Reynolds is saying, if he were hypothetically 30 years younger, if he were hypothetically banging hot chicks, to combat the risk that some of these girls were crazy enough to trick him into hypothetically impregnating them, to use the court system to hypothetically extract a large % of his hypothetical paycheck for child support of a kid he hypothetically didn't want, then , Reynolds would freeze all his sperm and get a vasectomy.

Is that about right?

Seeing Red said...

I read “Presumed Innocent.”

Dust Bunny Queen said...

AAT at 11:05

You are basically repeating what I said and wanting to argue with me about it.

I guess this answers the question about your reading comprehension skills.

Unknown said...

Lois McMaster Bujold is a very accomplished SF writer who is well worth your attention.

One of her high-tech future settings has "uterine replicators" where harvested egg & sperm meet and the baby grows until decanted into the arms of loving parents (and make no doubt, her main characters *are* great parents). When backward worlds come up to the standard tech level and get URs there is always a traditionalist backlash about how impersonal the process is. But in the end, after a generation no woman wants to go through 9 months of hell and hours of the worst pain ever any more than near-sighted people turn down glasses.

The thing is, it's not a big tech leap. It's coming, if not in my lifetime, then in my neices. If you can't find romance and profound love in that future, then we are SOL, because it will happen. Somehow I think people will cope.

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

A woman who would be interested in a man who would do this -- they deserve each other.

I can't imagine having a guy say "yeah I wanted to fuck a bunch of low-quality women whom I could not trust, who may or may not have given me diseases but at least they can't get me over a barrel for child support, but you're the one I want to raise my kids so I hope you don't mind conceiving our child via syringe" and thinking "wow this is the man of my dreams!" But maybe there are women in the world who would be OK with that.

This does not however mean I think that the complete lack of equity in reproductive "rights" is OK.

How about we all grow up and realize that sex has consequences and perhaps you save yourself a lot of childish headaches if you just keep your pants on unless you are in a trusting and loving relationship and can handle the natural outcome of sex? Call me crazy.

Shouting Thomas said...

The author and readers of this weblog are old people, right?

More toward the grandma and grandpa end of the spectrum?

So this was all hypothetical, correct?

DRP said...

It's funny how triggered Althouse is at the idea of men doing what "liberated" women have been doing for 40 years.

A man who gets a vasectomy is a paranoid woman-hating incel, trying to keep women from getting his precious fluids.

A woman who banks her eggs so that she can have a career into her late 40's and put childbirth off until the very last minute she's able to conceive is a forward thinking hero.

Charlotte Allen said...

I love Glenn Reynolds, but I'm with Althouse on this one. The whole point of sex is that it's about making new life--which is why people have so much trouble making themselves use birth control. They secretly hate it. The thrill of sex is the deep connection with a powerful creative force that unites the two in a way that is larger than themselves.

Which is why vasectomies are so creepy. They emasculate men--show them to be timid creatures afraid of their own virility. Fathering children is an indicium of manhood--why we chuckle when we hear about a guy with a lot of kids. I myself married too late to have children, but I can assure you that I'd never want to get pregnant from a sperm bank or at some doctor's office. I'd want to get pregnant from a night of love, period.

I'm also against abortion, an inherently brutal procedure that not only kills helpless babies but cuts women off from their most powerful raison d'etre: the making and nurturing of new life.

Hey, men's rights types: If you don't want to be stuck with fatherhood, there's something else about indiscriminately sticking that you might want to think about. The urge to have sex exists for only one purpose--and Mother Nature makes sure that that purpose gets fulfilled, sometimes whether your condom likes it or not.

Ann Althouse said...

"When I read that at Instapundit, I immediately thought of Althouse and past threads where she has defended holding men responsible for children they father no matter the circumstances of the impregnation. She argued for absolute liability for men."

That's the way you remembered something, but go back and find the quote. Read it properly and get back to me. I'm not going to restate what I said since the question is what I said at the time. Your paraphrase is incorrect.

D 2 said...

I think the important part of this post / ensuing comment was Dust Bunny Queens comment, which I am glad she said twice:

Fatherhood is something you DO. I would say that also extends to motherhood, or should, but apparently that's not said even in polite company no more.

My father in law raised my wife as a daughter as his own kin, made no distinction between her and his other children by my mother in law. He did it, because that was what the situation was when he came around, no one gave him a medal for it, and in time he will die and be forgotten. But the world needs fathers to DO their shit. Weren't people last week talking about how part of the issue of society is lack of male authority in the rearing of the young?

It would help if more mothers of the world didn't stay silent when some of their sisters were slagging fatherhood - thinking as if female empowerment is a 50-50 game based on heaping scorn on men - but that's not my pot to watch.

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

But in the end, after a generation no woman wants to go through 9 months of hell and hours of the worst pain ever any more than near-sighted people turn down glasses.

Bullshit. Does Lois McMaster Bujold have children? The experience of pregnancy and childbirth is deeply important to most women.

In the 1984 The Razor's Edge a woman is being comforted by a nun nurse after losing her child and husband in a car accident. The nurse is trying to help saying "It'll all be ok" or whatever and the patient shrieks at her something like, "You've never had a man inside you! You've never had a child inside you!" Anyone who thinks anything but a tiny aberrant minority of women would deliberately reject conceiving inside their bodies with a man they love and carrying that child has obviously never had a man or child inside them.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Charlotte Allen Which is why vasectomies are so creepy. They emasculate men--show them to be timid creatures afraid of their own virility.

So what is your opinion of a woman having her tubes tied?

gahrie said...

Anyone who thinks anything but a tiny aberrant minority of women would deliberately reject conceiving inside their bodies with a man they love and carrying that child has obviously never had a man or child inside them.

Or hasn't been paying attention to academic feminism. You know, heterosexuality is a means of controlling women, all penis in vagina sex is rape, a woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle.....

Unknown said...

Does Lois McMaster Bujold have children?

Yes.

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

Charlotte, I agree with your post almost entirely, but my husband got a vasectomy at 47 when the oldest of our six children was 17 and our youngest was 6 months. It does make me sad on an instinctive level that he's no longer fertile but his continued fertility serves no purpose and would be destructive to the goals we have for our lives and our family. We don't need to make children who will attend our funerals while still in junior high.

Bay Area Guy said...

I love Fatherhood. It's both hard and rewarding. But, that's because I came from from a broken family and broken marriage, and vowed not to make the same mistakes my father did.

However, it can only really work if you marry a good woman, get on the same page, and work to sustain the marriage over the decades. The love, stability and security is the necessary platform to raise good kids.

gahrie said...

"When I read that at Instapundit, I immediately thought of Althouse and past threads where she has defended holding men responsible for children they father no matter the circumstances of the impregnation. She argued for absolute liability for men."

That's the way you remembered something, but go back and find the quote. Read it properly and get back to me. I'm not going to restate what I said since the question is what I said at the time. Your paraphrase is incorrect.


That's the way I remember it. You expressed the opinion that it was perfectly OK to force male victims of rape to pay child support to their attackers. How else could that be interpreted?

gahrie said...

Does Lois McMaster Bujold have children?

Yes.


Wow..that's not how I pictured her. For some reason, in my mind she looked like RBG.

tim in vermont said...

"I guess this answers the question about your reading comprehension skills.”

Or your writing skills. I am just arguing with your “no true Scotsman” logic and your use of “absolutely.”

gahrie said...

Which is why abortions are so creepy. They defeminize women--show them to be timid creatures afraid of their own fertility. Bearing children is an indicium of womanhood--why we chuckle when we hear about a gal with a lot of kids.

Achilles said...

Ann Althouse said...
"When I read that at Instapundit, I immediately thought of Althouse and past threads where she has defended holding men responsible for children they father no matter the circumstances of the impregnation. She argued for absolute liability for men."

That's the way you remembered something, but go back and find the quote. Read it properly and get back to me. I'm not going to restate what I said since the question is what I said at the time. Your paraphrase is incorrect.

When we said men should have a right to choose to be free from child support you called men "splooge stooges."

So you believe men have a right to choose now?

Or are you being obviously hypocritical and evasive?

Your past posts on this subject make this particular post particularly ridiculous.

Hippogryph said...

All true, as Ann says. But, I think Instapundit is making a point about incentives.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...I can't imagine having a guy say "yeah I wanted to fuck a bunch of low-quality women whom I could not trust, who may or may not have given me diseases but at least they can't get me over a barrel for child support, but you're the one I want to raise my kids so I hope you don't mind conceiving our child via syringe" and thinking "wow this is the man of my dreams!" But maybe there are women in the world who would be OK with that.

Sure, great point.

Can you imagine a gal saying "yeah I wanted to fuck a bunch of guys I couldn't trust but not risk getting pregnant so I've been on birth control for all my adult life; I've also prioritized my career and my own personal pleasure so I've had a large number of sex partners and have waited to settle down and have kids (so as not to hurt my earning potential at work) and now that I've met you, the man I want to marry, I need fertility treatment/to conceive via syringe in order to have our children" and the man thinking "wow this is the woman of my dreams!"

'Cause, I mean, that scenario is a lot more common than the hypothetical one Reynolds outlines; it is pretty close to the ideal the Media and "our society" champion.

Angle-Dyne, Servant of Ugliness said...

Charlotte Allen: I love Glenn Reynolds, but I'm with Althouse on this one. The whole point of sex is that it's about making new life--which is why people have so much trouble making themselves use birth control. They secretly hate it. The thrill of sex is the deep connection with a powerful creative force that unites the two in a way that is larger than themselves.

So which side of Althouse are you with here? The side where she'll bang on about the sacred "powerful creative force of sex" when she wants to condemn men for trying to sidestep taking responsibility for unleashing those forces, or the side that forgets all about the immorality or unnatural "wrongness" of doing so, as she insists on the absolute right of women to forgo the consequences of having irresponsibly unleashed those same forces?

walter said...

Interesting how little attention the err..spurgling is getting.
I guess they are just carrying out the natural order of things, creative force etc.

Sebastian said...

"I'm with Althouse on this one. The whole point of sex is that it's about making new life.


On this "point," it's a little odd to be "with" someone who fervently believes that whether sex is about making new life should be for the woman to decide after the fact.

Michael K said...

I immediately thought of Althouse and past threads where she has defended holding men responsible for children they father no matter the circumstances of the impregnation. She argued for absolute liability for men."

How about holding men accountable for children they DID NOT father ? Plenty of such cases. Paternity testing.

Sebastian said...

"which side of Althouse are you with here?"

Great minds and all that. But you have just committed the ultimate faux pas, worse than Inga-level trolling, worse than men saving sperm, worse than anyone disbelieving CBF: i.e., to accuse Althouse of an inconsistency. God forbid.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Someone said I'm with Althouse on this one. The whole point of sex is that it's about making new life

Then are you saying that sex for people who are too OLD to have children is pointless? And they should stop doing it?

Once you reach menopause or are married to someone who is infertile for medical reasons, you should just refrain from having sex?

Homosexuals, Gays, Lesbians, should also not have sex since there is like ZERO chance of conceiving a child.

After all there is no point.

Heartless Aztec said...

Fun comments thread... I'd add something but at this point it's already been said up-thread somewhere. Prof Althouse has been feisty these last few days.

Freeman Hunt said...

The assumption would be that the guy is a huge slut.

Just an old country lawyer said...

Getting spurgled is all very fine until the spruglar sues for child support.
Is the victim liable, professor?

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Charlotte Allen said...Which is why vasectomies are so creepy. They emasculate men--show them to be timid creatures afraid of their own virility.

CDC - NCHS FastStats - Contraceptive Use
Percent of women aged 15-44 currently using female sterilization: 14.3%

It's insane the kinds of things "we" say about men that we wouldn't tolerate anyone saying about women. Are those women who choose tubal ligation "creepy?" God help you if you utter such a thing!

We celebrate a woman choosing to have tons of casual sex and push to make contraceptives and abortions as easy for her to get as possible to protect her bodily autonomy and incentivize those choices (to engage in casual sex, not choose long term monogamy with childbearing, etc). We subsidize that lifestyle! The Media promotes it as the goal and anyone dissenting is shamed as regressive, not sex-positive, patriarchal, etc.

But now you're telling me that I'm supposed to view a man not associating sex with a profound moral and spiritual connection to life, procreation, etc, as some kind of a creep and loser.

Women: screw around, live it up, "own" your sexuality and we'll structure society around your every desire (contraceptives passed out like candy, guilt-free abortion on demand, articles encouraging you to prioritize your career over a family, etc).
Men: your bodily fluids are sacred and the act of making love should be approached with the profound and solemn understanding that you're participating in the most serious and meaningful action a human being can undertake; you must treat every possible sexual encounter (or even potential encounter) with the seriousness the Church demanded centuries ago.

Perfectly consistent!

n.n said...

The risk is in sex before commitment, and liberal liaisons, including friendship with "benefits". That said, women's reproductive rites are 50 shades grimmer. Both male and female chauvinists are morons.

Yancey Ward said...

"Getting spurgled is all very fine until the spruglar sues for child support.
Is the victim liable, professor?"


This would be my question to the hostess, too.

Anonymous said...

What kind of father are you?

One with a functioning brain?

Freeman Hunt said...

Actually the assumption would be worse than huge slut. It would be huge slut who doesn't use condoms. Yuck!

HoodlumDoodlum said...

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...How about we all grow up and realize that sex has consequences and perhaps you save yourself a lot of childish headaches if you just keep your pants on unless you are in a trusting and loving relationship and can handle the natural outcome of sex? Call me crazy.

I won't call you crazy but I will say that if a non-religious public figure expressed that viewpoint they'd quickly be driven from the public square and denounced as sex-negative, slut-shaming, patriarchal, desirous of "controlling women's bodies," and so on.
Possibly someone could get away with saying that to young men. No one could possibly get away with saying it to young women.

Nichevo said...

whitney said...
"And you've chosen to disconnect your sexual activity from fertility?"
What! I can't believe you wrote such an absurd thing. So it's okay for women but not for men?

Let's play a game of Althouse. Heads men lose, tails women win.

Bay Area Guy said...

From personal experience over the past 35 years, among all the guy friends/brothers/cousins/co-workers I've known, I would say this:

1. Unplanned pregnancy happened a lot. I would say that, at least, 50% of the guys I've known got at least 1 girl pregnant. Pregnancy scares happened even more.

2. Abortions happened a lot. I would say that, about 30 - 40% of girls I've known had an abortion. The number may be higher, too, because some girls did not want to share that info.

3. I am confining this period from ages 18-28, when we were mostly single.

4. I don't recall any of the girls carrying a baby to term, and giving the baby up for adoption.

5. I do recall a few shotgun marriages, but mostly abortions settled the issue.

6. Of the shotgun marriages, I'd say 50% turned out well, and 50% ended in messy divorce, and messy child custody/support issues. Most of these problems were caused by guys, who did not want to pay up for the kid or raise the kid

7. I do not recall a single instance where a guy claimed that the girl tricked him into impregnating her.

So, simply put, maybe Reynolds is seeing a new, different, unpleasant sexual landscape, that just wasn't there when I was single. On the other hand, maybe he is seeing something only in his head.

Original Mike said...

Althouse said..."You mistrusted women."

You mistrusted people is more unprejudiced. Why is it always women versus men?

HoodlumDoodlum said...

It's odd that people don't realize the distinctions between male and female sterilization procedures; they don't seem to realize for one there's a vas deferens.

Rory said...

"a bunch of sperm"

There should be a better collective term.

walter said...

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/man-who-sabotaged-condoms-guilty-of-sexual-assault-top-court-rules/article17367231/
"Men who sabotage condoms may turn an otherwise consensual act with a woman into sexual assault, and women who lie about using birth control have been left with some uncertainty about whether they, too, could face charges, under a Supreme Court ruling yesterday on deception before sex."

Rory said...

Maybe a horde of sperm?

SGT Ted said...

I can't imagine having a guy say "yeah I wanted to fuck a bunch of low-quality women whom I could not trust, who may or may not have given me diseases but at least they can't get me over a barrel for child support, but you're the one I want to raise my kids so I hope you don't mind conceiving our child via syringe" and thinking "wow this is the man of my dreams!" But maybe there are women in the world who would be OK with that.

Or, maybe the man is saying "It's hard to figure out which women are truly quality or if they're sociopaths that will use men unilaterally to sire children. So, I'd best take control of my fertility and avoid being trapped by the unilateral decision of women who wanted to have sex with me and lied about not wanting children in order to extract cash and prizes with the birth of a child."



Original Mike said...

"Maybe a horde of sperm?"

A swarm.

Laslo Spatula said...

If I have to support this, then I guess I support most a woman who spurgled by mouth.

I am Laslo.

Sebastian said...

"And you've chosen to disconnect your sexual activity from fertility? Won't that affect your mind, your sense of power and connection to creative forces?"

I understand that we are dealing with some expert autotrolling here, but I'll take it seriously for the sake of argument.

How do you think the absence of any connection to creative forces in their sex lives affects the minds of gays and lesbians?

If such a connection is essential to meaningful sex, can same-sex marriage be as meaningful as heterosexual marriage?

gilbar said...

.How about we all grow up and realize that sex has consequences and perhaps you save yourself a lot of childish headaches if you just keep your pants on unless you are in a trusting and loving relationship and can handle the natural outcome of sex?

HELLO SEXIST PIG!
for your information (you sexist PIG!), Womyn are ENTITLED to ALL the sex they want, With WHOMEVER they want, WHENEVER they want. If a Womyn wants a man's dick; he is required: BY LAW! to give it to her. If she does not want it, he not only has to keep it in his pants (no duh!) but has to Not Even THINK about it, or her: OTHERWISE IT IS RAPE! If she wants to get pregnant it is HER Right to Get pregnant. If she does not want to Stay Pregnant, it is her Right to have society Pay for her Abortion.
Womyn are Pro-Choice, this means . . . THEY GET TO MAKE THE CHOICES

Grow UP people! We live in a world of sexual equality, that means that ALL rights lay with the woman, ALL responsibilities lay with the man

SGT Ted said...

"Whatever happened to keep it in your pants?"

Yea, whatever happened to don't spread your legs?

Bay Area Guy said...

Reminder to young men: Don't sleep with crazy, liberal women, even the good-looking ones! Those are the ones that will screw you over, somehow, someway.

FrankiM said...

“So, simply put, maybe Reynolds is seeing a new, different, unpleasant sexual landscape, that just wasn't there when I was single. On the other hand, maybe he is seeing something only in his head.l

It’s part and parcel of the new men’s empowerment moment, otherwise known as “Oh poor me, I’m the victim”.

gilbar said...

"Maybe a horde of sperm?"
I'm pretty sure the technical word is: spew. a Spew of Sperm

Leland said...

Fatherhood is an occupation. It is what you DO when you have a child in your life. How you raise, nurture and treat that child. Stepfathers. Fathers of adopted children. All are fathers in more than just a bioligical sense. That is Fatherhood that COUNTS.

Thanks DBQ. As a step dad with no children of my own, I appreciate your comment. My wife and I had our talk and decided that we didn't want to start at the beginning with another child. She chose to have her tubes tied, so that of things didn't work out for us or something happened to her, I could still choose to find another woman and have a child. That was 20 years ago, and honesty with each other has built a lasting trust with two grown daughters making their own choices now.

BTW, if he or she is worth having children together with; it won't matter how the child is conceived. If you don't think so, it is unfortunately not that hard to find a couple that is having a problem or cannot conceive. See what they'll go through to have a child together. You'll see love in what they do.

tim in vermont said...

Spurgled is a great word, irregarless.

walter said...

If not already established, I propose a corollary term: Splooge Scrooge

FrankiM said...

Is it even a REAL and wide spread phenomenon that women are stealing men’s sperm to impregnate themselves with? I doubt it, but interesting that this fear mongering regarding the dreaded “spurgler” is being pushed by rightist men. To what end? They make themselves look like paranoid weaklings.

n.n said...

If such a connection is essential to meaningful sex, can same-sex marriage be as meaningful as heterosexual marriage?

A politically congruent ("=") construct, based on labels, judgment, and leverage. So, we have selective exclusion under Pro-Choice. Equality will have to wait for social divergence or political opportunity.

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