Althouse: At the Tuesday Night Cafe...

August 27, 2019

At the Tuesday Night Cafe...

... you can talk about whatever you want.

182 comments:

mockturtle said...: I need to discuss Tolstoy. Having recently finished War and Peace and am nearly finished with Anna Karenina, which I had read previously, I am struck by the fact that, in both cases, the principal [autobiographical, as I understand] character, Pierre in one and Levin in the other are both fools and passive-aggressive in their nature. So was this Tolstoy?

And, as I have read, the author had written AK several times prior to the finished edition and was unsympathetic to the 'heroine' but later decided to show sympathy for her. It seems to me that she is undeserving of that sympathy, not because she was a 'fallen woman' but because she was unrepentant and felt herself the victim, blaming both her husband and Vronsky for her misery which she alone brought upon herself.

I'd love to hear others' weigh on on my observations.; 8/27/19, 7:12 PM
Narr said...: Tolstoy's writings are a huge vague expanse to me, known only by way of movies, and most of them disappointing. I may just be immune, as I seem to be to Shakespeare for one, and Dostoyevski for another.

Narr
Fools, Holy Fools, or Idiots?; 8/27/19, 7:22 PM
Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...: Our Tawdry, Untrustworthy Fourth Estate
The McCabe-CNN hookup is the latest in the long-running fling between the Obama Justice Department and the media.

The DOJ IG identified numerous prohibited connections btw FBI and media in his 2018 report: “We have profound concerns about the volume and extent of unauthorized media contacts by FBI personnel that we have uncovered during our review.” Agents accepted gifts from journos.

https://www.amgreatness.com/2019/08/26/our-tawdry-untrustworthy-fourth-estate/; 8/27/19, 7:26 PM
mockturtle said...: Narr, Dostoyevsky is my favorite author and Shakespeare my favorite playwright.; 8/27/19, 7:27 PM
stevew said...: There was progress today and so my mood is improved.; 8/27/19, 7:27 PM
Mary H said...: Maybe Tim Mynett is a kind of male Anna Karenina?

Today's New York Post carried the story of a political consultant who left his wife and child for Ilhan Omar, a Somali-born congresswoman. From Mynett's wife's divorce filing:

The physician said her husband “has a history of emotional volatility, that can cause him to become easily angered and rageful,’’ according to the papers.

She added that she used her contacts to help him launch and grow his career and financially supported him along the way — only to have him “conveniently asserting after their separation that he is nearly broke, and his business is floundering,” the documents show.

Tim Mynett, using “bullying tactics,” has “begun threatening not to pay for his share of their joint financial responsibilities,” Beth Mynett says in the complaint.; 8/27/19, 7:31 PM
Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...: The Community Organizer in Chief is back! (per Sara Carter)

@BarackObama is back in the political arena, announcing a new initiative to combat partisan gerrymandering. Republicans say his efforts are really about helping @TheDemocrats

per Scott Walker
If anyone tells you that @EricHolder is “fighting against gerrymandering” and for “fair maps,” just look at the form his organization filed with the IRS. The truth: their mission is to “FAVORABLY POSITION DEMOCRATS FOR THE REDISTRICTING PROCESS.”
(read bottom circled)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EClch5TXkAABne6.jpg:large; 8/27/19, 7:33 PM
Bay Area Guy said...: If Obama wants to stop political gerrymandering, he should start with Chicago.

What a phony.; 8/27/19, 7:36 PM
Mike Sylwester said...: The 2016 BBC television dramatization if War and Peace was superb. It starred Paul Dano as Pierre, and Lily James as Natasha.

Pierre was not a fool. I'll have to think some more about whether he was "passive-aggressive".; 8/27/19, 7:36 PM
n.n said...: Democratic gerrymandering is prosecuted through immigration, migration, invasion, inculcation, abortion, adjudication, intimidation, and outright fraud. They should probably also pass some common-sense scalpel control to guarantee the human and civil right to keep and bear arms... legs, a head, and life in urbane jungles with progressive policies.; 8/27/19, 7:51 PM
buwaya said...: Tolstoy was not like Pierre or Levin by nature. He was an adventurer, he looked for trouble on Russias frontiers, hanging out with Cossacks, and he served with distinction in the 19th centuries equivalent of the trenches of WWI at the siege of Sebastopol.

His short stories are more autobiographical I think. The Sebastopol ones seem, often, to be straight out of 1916, and these were by one who saw all this himself. He may have come out of that with PTSD.; 8/27/19, 7:52 PM
Mike Sylwester said...: I read War and Peace in Russian when I was a graduate student -- maybe in about 1973. I remember that there were a lot of words related to 19th Century artillery. I remember also the philosophical ending, about how historical forces can cause masses of humans move back and forth across a continent. I remember that there was some stuff about Masons.

Watching the BBC dramatization made the novel come alive for me.

------

I was converted by Tolstoy's pacifist essays, which he wrote in his final years. I became a believer in non-resistance to evil. I returned my draft card and declared myself a conscientious objector. I intended to become a doctor and work in Africa, like Albert Schweizer.

This period of my life lasted a year or so. Then I changed my mind about it.

I joined the US Air Force in 1978 and served 14 years there. I ended as a major.

-----

Because I was assigned right away to USAF Intelligence, I had to get a security clearance. I was afraid that the background check would discover that I had returned my draft card and had declared myself to be a pacifist conscientious objector.

The background check took a very long time, and so I was afraid that my pacifist past would be discovered and that I never would get the security clearance.

I wrote a letter to my uncle, who had been the USAF's Chief of Chaplains, and I asked him what I should do. He wrote that I should tell and explain everything honestly. I did so, and soon afterwards my security clearance was approved.; 8/27/19, 7:57 PM
mockturtle said...: I did enjoy both novels, War and Peace more due to the more interesting subject matter, I was just curious about what Tolstoy, himself, was like based on his protagonists.; 8/27/19, 8:01 PM
Maillard Reactionary said...: mockturtle: I have only read W&P of Tolstoy. I enjoyed it very much, much more than I thought I would. Unlike e.g. Moby Dick, I didn't think it needed a tough love editing to improve it.

From my understanding, Tolstoy could be described as having been a fool, and an unpleasant man esp. regarding how he treated his family. He seemed to be deluded in the old-fashioned Russian way about the healing power of farm life, etc. I am not a literary scholar so take this with a grain, or 64 mg of salt.

As time passes, I become increasingly aware of my own foolishness and its regrettable effects on some I have met in the past. So on the whole I'll give Tolstoy a fond ave atque vale and leave it at that.; 8/27/19, 8:03 PM
Maillard Reactionary said...: Tuesday Night Cafe:

It's dark in here. I can't see any pictures.

Perhaps Our Hostess left her phone on the charger today.; 8/27/19, 8:05 PM
Jaq said...: Shakespeare is great, but I never understood him until I did a Great Courses on him in Audible. 65 hours of lectures from a Dartmouth professor. I had a commute of over an hour, so I would listen to a lecture each day. No reading required to benefit from it. After that, watching Shakespeare now is like watching Tarantino. It’s accessible, I mean. Come to think of it, I think Tarantino is heavily, well, more heavily than most, influenced by Shakespeare.; 8/27/19, 8:11 PM
Mike Sylwester said...: I think that one reason why Tolstoy became a pacifist in his final years was that he always had craved drama in his life. He wanted to experience drama and to write about drama.

When he became old, the pacifist ideology injected new drama into a period of his life when he should have enjoyed serenity. He caused a lot of trouble for himself, his family, his disciples and the government.

When I was a Tolstoyan pacifist, I spent most of my mental energy struggling with hypothetical situations. Would I ever use force to protect people who were being enslaved, gang-raped, massacred and so on? I argued with my parents because they paid taxes, which supported the police and military and so on.

I exhausted myself mentally. My life was a constant struggle-session.

That is what Tolstoy did to himself too.

-----

Then, one day, I happened to be watching one of those old Dragnet shows. It ended with Sergeant Joe Friday lecturing some young punk who had a bad, anti-social, self-defeating attitude.

I thought to myself: "Joe Friday is right!"

In that instant, the pacifist period of my life ended.; 8/27/19, 8:15 PM
Michael K said...: I intended to become a doctor and work in Africa, like Albert Schweizer.

One of my medical school classmates went to Africa and spent a summer with Schweitzer.

I got interested in him when I was in college. He wrote "In search of historical Jesus," which I read in college. He became a doctor to do the ministry thing and was one of the great Bach organists. My classmate said he would listen to him play in the jungle in the black of night.; 8/27/19, 8:16 PM
mockturtle said...: Buwaya asserts: Tolstoy was not like Pierre or Levin by nature.

That's interesting and I'm glad to hear it but two 'prefaces' I have read go to great lengths to enumerate the various similarities between Tolstoy and those two characters. Yes, it is clear that Tolstoy had military experience and knowledge as well as an aristocratic background and I thoroughly enjoyed his battle descriptions. He was clearly a great writer and deserves to be so honored. I wish I could have warmed to his characters as I have to Dostoyevsky's! ;-); 8/27/19, 8:17 PM
Michael K said...: I think Tarantino is heavily, well, more heavily than most, influenced by Shakespeare.

I saw his latest picture after some good reviews by friends. It is the weirdest picture I have ever seen.

I studied Shakespeare back when English Lit was OK with him. That was not Shakespeare; 8/27/19, 8:20 PM
mockturtle said...: Mike Sylwester explains: I exhausted myself mentally. My life was a constant struggle-session.

That is what Tolstoy did to himself too.

That is also my impression of both Pierre and Levin: They are both frustratingly indecisive. And inclined to be late, a passive-aggressive trait.; 8/27/19, 8:21 PM
mockturtle said...: Kurasawa was heavily influenced by Shakespeare, of course.; 8/27/19, 8:23 PM
commoncents said...: #1 Trending VIdeo - Star Wars: The Rise Of Skywalker

https://commoncts.blogspot.com/2019/08/1-trending-video-star-wars-rise-of.html; 8/27/19, 8:24 PM
Jaq said...: “That was not Shakespeare”

That’s just because all of the knife work, blood, and gore and death of just about everybody that traditionally ends a Shakespeare tragedy took place off screen as the credits rolled in that particular movie.

I think it was a very good movie, in the end the di Caprio character denies the Brad Pitt character and walks to his fate.; 8/27/19, 8:25 PM
Fen said...: Re NeverTrumper Brett Stevens via Insty:

Begging to be liked by the left gets you to the place of Bret Stephens: "Please don’t compare me to a bedbug, come meet the wife.”

It's true, Bret asked his attacker to come meet the wife. The Cuck jokes write themselves.; 8/27/19, 8:26 PM
narciso said...: Well seeing the way the war was comducted in the caucasus, (hadji murad) and the siege of se astopol, one might take his point, russia did have to keep over this same territory on quire a few occasions, this is why they are unwilling to part with it. Also his uncle was a very hardlinr interior minisyer.; 8/27/19, 8:28 PM
Jaq said...: Some of the sixties set dressing and some of the background cars may have been a bit overcooked.; 8/27/19, 8:28 PM
narciso said...: Aack i told you what a trainwreick rise of sky walker is going to be.; 8/27/19, 8:29 PM
Jaq said...: "Bret asked his attacker to come meet the wife. The Cuck jokes write themselves.”

LOL

Who’s Afraid of Virginia Woolf...; 8/27/19, 8:30 PM
Fen said...: And here is where I differentiate myself from Farmer.

I have no informed opinion about Tolstoy, so I won't clutter the comments with ignorance.

"Fen, this Buds for you!"

But I drink vodka...; 8/27/19, 8:31 PM
narciso said...: Well most everyone dies at the end of hamlet, whereas only those that deserve to do so in hollywood.; 8/27/19, 8:32 PM
chuck said...: I read War and Peace in Russian when I was a graduate student

My step-sister's significant other did too. What stuck with him is that his uncommon Jewish family name made an appearance in the text. He pulled it off the shelf and showed me the spot.; 8/27/19, 8:33 PM
Jaq said...: I was thinking that narciso. Shakespeare would have killed Brad Pitt too, and Sharon Tate on stage. Really dial up the tragedy to almost unbearable levels, as in King Lear or obviously R&J. Tarantino backs off of that.; 8/27/19, 8:34 PM
Ralph L said...: I was afraid that the background check would discover that I had returned my draft card and had declared myself to be a pacifist conscientious objector.

They may have been curious why you would willingly learn Russian.
When I was working for Beltway bandit SAIC, there were a couple old Russians on our floor who seemed to spend all day reading Russian mags and newspapers.; 8/27/19, 8:35 PM
rcocean said...: "I need to discuss Tolstoy."

Well, that's a new one. I don't think I've ever read that before in 20 years on the internet! I had to listen to War and Peace on Books on Tape, because I couldn't keep the Russian names straight when reading. But I consider it one of the greatest novels. Pierre is an emotional character, he's supposed to be more sympathetic than admirable.

Henry Fonda, of all people, plays him in War and Peace (1956). If you've ever read "My Confession" you know Tolstoy was a man always reaching for answers and never willing to follow in anyone else's footsteps.; 8/27/19, 8:35 PM
narciso said...: Maybe hes come to realize the cathartic effect of violence that hes been expounding on for 25 years is bunk.

Manson is like some penny ante demon, that should have been disoatched 50 years ago, his presence ma de e a mockery of anything resembling justice.; 8/27/19, 8:40 PM
Narayanan said...: I may be able to appreciate Star Wars if somebody can explain Rich and Powerful woman dying during childbirth - did Obamacare become such fixture that far into future!?; 8/27/19, 8:41 PM
FullMoon said...: Secret Memos Show the Government Has Been Lying About Backpage All Along Sealed memos fought over in federal court last week show authorities have known for years that claims about Backpage were bogus.; 8/27/19, 8:41 PM
Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...: @Mock
any echoes from Romans?
“Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all. If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all. Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave room for the wrath of God; for it is written, ‘Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.’” (Romans 12:17-19)

"Where sin abounds, Grace abounds even more"; 8/27/19, 8:42 PM
narciso said...: Well that was a retcon lucas never oroginally intended this character to pass on.; 8/27/19, 8:42 PM
chuck said...: I wish I could have warmed to his characters as I have to Dostoyevsky's!

I read a collection of Dostoyevsky's early short stories. He was a pulp writer at heart :) So was Balzac.; 8/27/19, 8:43 PM
wild chicken said...: Tolstoy was not sentimental about Anna, but movies tend to play up the love story angle. But it was clear that you cannot build your happiness on others' misery. Others like lawful spouse and children.

Though some people have no problem with it.; 8/27/19, 8:44 PM
narciso said...: Why does jules cite ezekiel then blatantly ignore it, it sounds profound till you think about it for a moment.; 8/27/19, 8:45 PM
narciso said...: The think about pulp fiction and other noirs that separate it from classic was good and evil were clearly delineated and consequences were paid out.; 8/27/19, 8:47 PM
rcocean said...: Mike Sylwester is right, Tolstoy needed drama. I read his religious essays when young, and enjoyed them and agreed with the lofty sentiments, but there was something extreme and unworldly about them. Sort of like Pierre who thinks and emotes and go from one extreme to another. Personally, I'm the extract opposite of that type. I think Tolstoy like many artists/novelists was very good at describing the world and identifying what was wrong, and very bad at coming up with good real world solutions. Its why so many of them became communists during the 1930s.; 8/27/19, 8:49 PM
narciso said...: Note the officials who got away with thar fraud, the sheriff of cook county, the current mayor of seattle and kamala harris.; 8/27/19, 8:49 PM
Milwaukie guy said...: Apropos of nothing, neolothics in North America used to hunt Wooly Mammoths around the watering hole. In some cases, I assume when they killed extra in the fall, they'd drop the extra one in some Wisconsin pond. In the spring, as the water warmed up and the internal gasses expanded, they'd pop to the top and Fresh Meat! Just like drunks who fall into the water off Oak Street beach in Chicago during the winter and pop up as floaters in the spring.

First documented use of refrigeration. On Wisconsin. [Or was it Michigan?] America, fuck yah!; 8/27/19, 8:49 PM
walter said...: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/joe-walsh-2020-republican-candidate-challenging-trump-says-he-lost-his-radio-show/
Joe Walsh, the former congressman who's challenging President Trump in the Republican Party's presidential primary, said in a Monday night CNN interview that he lost his popular radio show and had just received notice before arriving to the studio for the sit-down. Walsh told CNN's John Berman that he expected the move because nearly "80 to 90%" of his audience supports the president.
<
"I am running for president. I oppose this president. Most of my listeners support the president," said Walsh.

Walsh contended that he's running to the right of Mr. Trump and believes in strong immigration policies. Walsh said he does not agree with Mr. Trump's tax cut and would have given a greater tax cut to the middle class. When asked about the lack of policy plans on his campaign website, Walsh focused on the president.

"I'm running against Trump because he's morally unfit. Period. It's about Trump. It's not about the issues. It's about Trump," Walsh said. "But on the issues, I believe in a wall. Trump hasn't built a wall. I believe in border security. Trump has botched the border. The border's a bigger mess now than it was when he got elected."; 8/27/19, 8:49 PM
Fen said...: Ace frontpaged a fun comment:

911 OPERATOR: what's your emergency?

BRET STEPHENS:

911 OPERATOR: Bret I swear to Christ this better not be about twitter...

BRET STEPHENS: *hangs up the phone*; 8/27/19, 8:51 PM
mockturtle said...: Tolstoy was not sentimental about Anna, but movies tend to play up the love story angle.

I've not seen a movie of AK and I did not say Tolstoy was sentimental about Anna but somewhat sympathetic. But that could just be how I interpret it. Which is one reason I like to discuss what I've read because everyone takes something different away from a novel, just as with a painting, n'est-ce pas?; 8/27/19, 8:51 PM
narciso said...: What a jack..., has he seen to the degree trump has gone to build the wall, all the way to the reassignment of congressional funds.; 8/27/19, 8:52 PM
rehajm said...: I can’t figure out how CNN still gets media credentials normally reserved for...the media.; 8/27/19, 8:54 PM
mockturtle said...: And, as noted, I have not finished the book quite yet, although, having read it before, I know how it ends.; 8/27/19, 8:54 PM
rcocean said...: Strangely, I've never read Anna Karina, I've always meant to, but fell through the cracks. I've never read "Tom Jones" either.; 8/27/19, 8:54 PM
narciso said...: Dashell hammett definitely but raymond chandler didnt go that way; 8/27/19, 8:55 PM
narciso said...: Oh really:

https://freebeacon.com/politics/sanders-china-has-done-more-to-solve-poverty-than-any-country-in-the-history-of-civilization/?fbclid=IwAR0O6ztFxsJsBD2lFxvu5COd9MyCpjrB29Md_HTWDfjeAUq843d_ybtLVZE; 8/27/19, 8:56 PM
fleg9bo said...: I need to discuss Tolstoy. Having recently finished War and Peace and am nearly finished with Anna Karenina... I'd love to hear others' weigh on on my observations.

There is a blog called Languagehat (languagehat.com). The blogger is an American who reads Russian literature in Russian. There is lots of discussion of Russian lit, including Tolstoy, as well as much other interesting (to me) language stuff. There is a search box at the site. I put in Karenina and was directed to this page: http://languagehat.com/?s=KARENINA

Give it a try.; 8/27/19, 8:56 PM
rehajm said...: Tropical storms are ramping up this week. For climate alarmists the bad weather drought finally comes to an end. Look for the leftie candidates to quickly tie storms to tax...er, ‘climate’ policy.; 8/27/19, 8:58 PM
Narayanan said...: FWIW

https://objectivistanswers.com/questions/12078/what-did-ayn-rand-think-about-the-novel-war-and-peace.html; 8/27/19, 9:00 PM
narciso said...: Thats why they are having their seven hour? Clinate debate.; 8/27/19, 9:01 PM
walter said...: narciso,
“I’m done with talk radio, and that makes me sad,” Walsh said Sunday on “Beyond the Beltway with Bruce DuMont.” “But to me this is a bigger mission. I’ve got to do what I can to make sure this guy can’t be reelected and . . . to try to help save the Republican party. Trump has destroyed the Republican party.”
--
To save the party, we must get back to losing with integrity!; 8/27/19, 9:02 PM
Narayanan said...: I would like to see discussion on Rand's Theory vs lit-crit!?; 8/27/19, 9:03 PM
narciso said...: You forgot to add 'this is who we are'; 8/27/19, 9:04 PM
walter said...: He states his audience disagrees with him.
Salem withholds ratings info...but let him go.
Hmm.
Maybe talk radio is done with HIM.
No worries..he can sidle up next to Charlie Sykes as a "contributor".; 8/27/19, 9:07 PM
narciso said...: Even retro seeming films like gangster squad which perfectly cast sean penn as a thug, doesnt have enough light to contrast the dark.

La confidential by contrast did pull it off, but black dahlia didnt.; 8/27/19, 9:08 PM
gilbar said...: Walter said that...
Walsh said. "But on the issues, I believe in a wall. Trump hasn't built a wall. I believe in border security. Trump has botched the border. The border's a bigger mess now than it was when he got elected."

Border Patrol releases drone footage showing miles of ‘new wall system’ being built
From the ICE spokesman on that link: Last year 2,400 illegals crossed, this year 800
So, Walter; Walsh is a LIAR; can we assume you are too?; 8/27/19, 9:08 PM
n.n said...: sanders-china-has-done-more-to-solve-poverty-than-any-country-in-the-history-of-civilization

They enjoyed remarkable progress with planned population, planned parenthood, redistributive change (people, capital), civil rights suppression, Green deals underwritten by labor and environmental arbitrage.; 8/27/19, 9:08 PM
Churchy LaFemme: said...: I may be able to appreciate Star Wars if somebody can explain Rich and Powerful woman dying during childbirth - did Obamacare become such fixture that far into future!?

The Pitch Meeting guy explains all.; 8/27/19, 9:09 PM
Fen said...: “I’m done with talk radio, and that makes me sad,” Walsh said Sunday on “Beyond the Beltway with Bruce DuMont.” “But to me this is a bigger mission. I’ve got to do what I can to make sure this guy can’t be reelected and . . . to try to help save the Republican party. Trump has destroyed the Republican party.”

Trump: The Great Unmasking.

I had no idea we were infested with so many Cucks and Traitors.; 8/27/19, 9:11 PM
narciso said...: Which part, bernie the 60 million rightists or the subsequent robber baron tactics pursurd by the pla. Pick one.; 8/27/19, 9:12 PM
Seeing Red said...: Farmers’ Almanac predicts ‘polar coaster’ for Chicago, Great Lakes region
Most of the country may see a “freezing, frigid and frosty winter,” said the almanac’s editor; 8/27/19, 9:14 PM
walter said...: gilbar,
Your compass is malfunctioning, buddy.; 8/27/19, 9:16 PM
Seeing Red said...: 60 mikes of wall going up in NM?

And I think another 200 miles approved?; 8/27/19, 9:19 PM
mockturtle said...: Thank you, fleg9bo.; 8/27/19, 9:19 PM
Fen said...: 60 mikes of wall going up in NM? And I think another 200 miles approved?

Still not fast enough for Farmer, he remains Anti-Trump because Reasons.; 8/27/19, 9:21 PM
Chuck said...: Blogger Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...
The Community Organizer in Chief is back! (per Sara Carter)

@BarackObama is back in the political arena, announcing a new initiative to combat partisan gerrymandering. Republicans say his efforts are really about helping @TheDemocrats

per Scott Walker
If anyone tells you that @EricHolder is “fighting against gerrymandering” and for “fair maps,” just look at the form his organization filed with the IRS. The truth: their mission is to “FAVORABLY POSITION DEMOCRATS FOR THE REDISTRICTING PROCESS.”
(read bottom circled)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EClch5TXkAABne6.jpg:large

An excellent, valuable comment. I haven’t yet gone to that .url but I will. I hope everyone does. These are important, close legal fights which is why you see Obama and Holder in them.

We got some talent on our side (Kris Kibach, Hans von Spakovsky) But they are both just a bit tainted by their entanglements with Trump Administration incompetence.

We need to overturn the Arizona Independent Redistricting Commission case. That’s a very tall order but it was a case decided by Kennedy’s swing vote. And Roberts was PISSED in his dissent.

I may not have added much with this comment, but given the commenter’s screen name I felt I had to make it clear.; 8/27/19, 9:22 PM
Seeing Red said...: Oh really:

https://freebeacon.com/politics/sanders-china-has-done-more-to-solve-poverty-than-any-country-in-the-history-of-civilization/?fbclid=IwAR0O6ztFxsJsBD2lFxvu5COd9MyCpjrB29Md_HTWDfjeAUq843d_ybtLVZE

8/27/19, 8:56 PM

They, like the USSR, had nowhere to go but up.

We were in Russia 20 years ago and saw a woman wearing a yoke carrying water. We saw another woman washing clothes in the stream.; 8/27/19, 9:24 PM
Michael said...: Mike Sylwester

This could have been you:https://longreads.com/2018/09/12/a-trip-to-tolstoy-farm/; 8/27/19, 9:26 PM
narciso said...: Well the problem is russia was these functionaries and would be bureaucrats that dan the soviets just changed suits, this was largely due to the efforts of larry summers (wasnt he on the lolita express) and jeffrey sachs.; 8/27/19, 9:27 PM
mockturtle said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 8/27/19, 9:28 PM
mockturtle said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 8/27/19, 9:29 PM
Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...: ...as if these poor girls havent been used by creeps enough...

Gloria Allred representing some of Epstain's victims

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-08-27/epstein-coward-who-robbed-victims-their-day-court-tuesday-hearing; 8/27/19, 9:30 PM
narciso said...: Madame soong and her whole clan, somewhat the sekloongs in elegants dynasty were held responsible for everything that went wrong in pre maoist china, by the likes of sterling seagrave and going back to carter vincent.; 8/27/19, 9:31 PM
mockturtle said...: Narayanan provides Ayn Rand reference in which she writes: Since art is a philosophical composite, it is not a contradiction to say: "This is a great work of art, but I don't like it". I totally agree with her about that. And, while I enjoy Tolstoy's writing, I don't like his characters or his philosophy. But she read Mickey Spillane? Hmm. Maybe I'll go there after I read, The Life of Madame Chiang Kai-Shek, which I only just ordered yesterday. [I always have to have the next book waiting in the wings.]; 8/27/19, 9:31 PM
Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...: all of us here @Ingachuck'stoothlessARM wish all a good night.

"Don't let the Bedbugs bite!"; 8/27/19, 9:37 PM
Milwaukie guy said...: CDs have always been gerrymandered, let's see, since Eldbridge Gerry in the early 1800s.

Creating minority-majority CDs causes first level gerrymandering and modern gerrymandering has to gerrymander around that.; 8/27/19, 9:38 PM
Narayanan said...: Suppose Joe Walsh gets sage advice to run in 2024 with same message to pick up the pieces?

Who will provide?

Will he evoke Different response ?; 8/27/19, 9:40 PM
narciso said...: Well its kind of funny how jabba i mean jerry nadlers district is neatly gerrymandered.; 8/27/19, 9:44 PM
chuck said...: Well its kind of funny how jabba i mean jerry nadlers district is neatly gerrymandered.

Also the districts of Elijah Cummings and, back in the day, Barney Franks. I'm sure the boundaries all follow historic cow paths.; 8/27/19, 9:48 PM
Michael K said...: Tropical storms are ramping up this week.

Send one to Tucson please. Our monsoon season has crapped out on us.; 8/27/19, 9:49 PM
NorthOfTheOneOhOne said...: The Beverly Hillbillies mansion(the house the used for external shots) is for sale.

If you've got $195M to spare.; 8/27/19, 9:49 PM
effinayright said...: Seeing Red said...
Farmers’ Almanac predicts ‘polar coaster’ for Chicago, Great Lakes region
Most of the country may see a “freezing, frigid and frosty winter,” said the almanac’s editor
************

Just when has it NOT been the case that "Most of the country****may*** see a “freezing, frigid and frosty winter”??

In an age where satellites continually look down on the entire earth, sensing its temperatures, barometric pressures, storms, fluctuations in ocean currents and temperatures and more, I would certainly like to see the juju, the witchcraft, the shamanism behind the Farmers' Almanac's forecasts.

Do they publish their raw data? No. Their algorithms? No. Do they ever explain why their results have varied so often in the past vs predicted results?

Has anyone ever tried to map their DAILY forecasts to results?

Has anyone looked at their charts based on the "Moon's sign"?

I frickin doubt it.

What nonsense.; 8/27/19, 9:50 PM
Narayanan said...: Thank you Pitch Meeting Guy.

You have convinced me to stand in Thunderstorm to get hit by Lightning and gain Wisdom.; 8/27/19, 9:55 PM
narciso said...: The real strangd bedfellows

https://apelbaum.wordpress.com/2019/08/16/the-red-green-alliance-and-the-real-devil-of-mogadishu/; 8/27/19, 9:55 PM
narciso said...: The thing about ellroy is he has resorted to these very choppy short description that civer a500 plus page text, like prequel to the la quartet.; 8/27/19, 10:00 PM
stephen cooper said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 8/27/19, 10:01 PM
Narayanan said...: Bernie maybe angling to incarnate as Chicom Dalai Lama. JetSet without guiltshaming.; 8/27/19, 10:02 PM
J. Farmer said...: @Fen:

I have no informed opinion about Tolstoy, so I won't clutter the comments with ignorance.

Funny, you keep repeating this charge, and I keep asking you to point out what I've gotten wrong, and I get...crickets. So for example, in our last exchange on the Stephens post, you wrote that I "have no idea what [I am] talking about." To which I replied: "By all means, point out what facts you believe I've gotten wrong. I'll wait."

Still waiting.

Still not fast enough for Farmer, he remains Anti-Trump because Reasons.

I've responded to this bullshit charge over and over again, so you're either illiterate or obtuse. But I'll try one more time. Read slowly if you need to. I voted for Trump and will pretty much in all likelihood vote for him again, because I consider immigration the number one issue facing the country and am basically a single-issue voter on the matter. Nonetheless, I am pessimistic about his (or any other single person's) ability to solve the problem and have elucidated the specific criticisms I have of the decisions he has made. Silly me, I thought we elected a president, not an infallible pontiff.; 8/27/19, 10:05 PM
Wince said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 8/27/19, 10:06 PM
Ken B said...: I liked AK more at first. When I got older I reread W&P. I can imagine reading it a third time, but every time I pick up up AK I set it aside unopened. I suspect this is because I lost all sympathy for his Levin noble peasant mush.

No other Tolstoy holds a candle to those two imo.

I am currently rereading Lonesome Dove. I read it when it came out in paperback, 1987 or 1988. It's not Tolstoy but it's very good, and holds up after 32 years.; 8/27/19, 10:08 PM
Wince said...: NorthOfTheOneOhOne said...
The Beverly Hillbillies mansion(the house the used for external shots) is for sale.
If you've got $195M to spare.

It even comes with a semen pond!

"Some day I gotta have a long talk with that boy."; 8/27/19, 10:10 PM
Ken B said...: Farmer
“I keep asking you to point out what I have gotten wrong”

Letterman!; 8/27/19, 10:11 PM
exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...: mockturtle, I felt the same way about War and Peace and Anna Karenina. I forced myself to finish War and Peace just because doing so felt like a big achievement, but the characters left me cold.

I much prefer Dostoyevsky and Chekhov. The Brothers Karamazov is one of my favorite novels.; 8/27/19, 10:12 PM
J. Farmer said...: @Fen:

p.s. Here is what I wrote six days ago when you said I was "anti-Trump" and to which you had zero reply.

"I am not anti-Trump, and I am not pro-Trump. I don't find that kind of framing very useful. When Trump does things I agree with and support, I'll support them. When he does things I don't agree with and don't support, I won't. It really isn't more complicated than that. Unlike the Never Trumpers and the Ever Trumpers, my criteria for judgment isn't "Trump did it." In fact, if you replaced Trump with someone else who did the exact same things as Trump, I'd have the exact same opinion. My opinion is based on the decisions and the policies, not the person making the decisions and the policies."; 8/27/19, 10:12 PM
J. Farmer said...: @Ken B:

Letterman!

Haha. That's a matter of taste and opinion, not fact. Fen is quick to tell me I don't know what I'm talking about when he disagrees with me. He is less quick to actually point out the inaccuracies.; 8/27/19, 10:14 PM
narciso said...: I also read tolstoys shorter work, resurrection. at the end of his life,
I think one of the problems with pre communist russia was the orthodox faith had calcified in a way close to that of 1st century judaism, it had become so rigorous and yet so irrelevamt that nihlistic philosophyd had come to pass,,you see some of this is alexander blok (nee belys petersburg; 8/27/19, 10:18 PM
Narayanan said...: Haha. That's a matter of taste and opinion, not fact. Fen is quick to tell me I don't know what I'm talking about when he disagrees with me. He is less quick to actually point out the inaccuracies.

Are we verging on discussing WRONGTHINK; 8/27/19, 10:20 PM
narciso said...: If course bely was writing from the perspective of the 1930s, looking back farther than pasternak; 8/27/19, 10:24 PM
Seeing Red said...: Just when has it NOT been the case that "Most of the country****may*** see a “freezing, frigid and frosty winter”??

There have been very mild winters in Chicago.

And wild swings. One year in the 60s, the next 26 below.

We’ve had a Christmas or two where it was warmer here than in Florida.; 8/27/19, 10:25 PM
StephenFearby said...: AP 2 hours ago

Biden: Racism in US is institutional, ‘white man’s problem’
By ERRIN HAINES and JUANA SUMMERS

'WASHINGTON (AP) — Racism in America is an institutional “white man’s problem visited on people of color,” Vice President Joe Biden said Tuesday, arguing that the way to attack the issue is to defeat President Donald Trump and hold him responsible for deepening the nation’s racial divide.

Taking aim at incendiary racial appeals by Trump, Biden said in an interview with a small group of reporters that a president’s words can “appeal to the worst damn instincts of human nature,” just as they can move markets or take a nation into war.

Biden is leading his Democratic challengers for the presidential nomination in almost all polls, largely because of the support of black voters. He has made appealing to them central to his candidacy and vowed to make maximizing black and Latino turnout an “overwhelming focus” of his effort. The interview, more than an hour long, focused largely on racial issues.

“White folks are the reason we have institutional racism,” Biden said. “There has always been racism in America. White supremacists have always existed, they still exist.” He added later that in his administration, it would “not be tolerated.”'

'...Biden was also asked whether he would select a woman or person of color as his running mate should he become the nominee. He said that while he would “preferably” do so, he is ultimately seeking a partner on the ticket who is “simpatico with what I stand for and what I want to get done.”

“Whomever I pick would be preferably someone who was of color and who was of a different gender, but I’m not making that commitment until I know that the person I’m dealing with I can completely, thoroughly trust, is authentic, and is on the same page.”'

'...“Having moved on from the Russia Hoax, Democrats are now employing the oldest play in the Democrat playbook: falsely accusing their opponent of racism, extending it even to the President’s supporters. Calling half the country racist is not a winning strategy,” said Tim Murtaugh, the Trump campaign’s communications director.'

https://apnews.com/88bd58010e75449eb5748499724df2f2; 8/27/19, 10:34 PM
narciso said...: Who else shut down the govt and diverted funds to the wall building.

One of the pharisaical disputes on the eve of the revolution among orthodox clergy was the length of the tassels and how many beeds on thar garment; 8/27/19, 10:35 PM
effinayright said...: Seeing Red said...
Just when has it NOT been the case that "Most of the country****may*** see a “freezing, frigid and frosty winter”??

There have been very mild winters in Chicago.

And wild swings. One year in the 60s, the next 26 below.

We’ve had a Christmas or two where it was warmer here than in Florida.
*************

Since when is Chicago "most of the country"??; 8/27/19, 10:36 PM
William said...: Somewhere along the way, I stopped going to church and stopped believing in God. I never really had a crisis of faith though. Slip sliding away. Those Russians take religion way too seriously. I'm glad things worked out okay for Levin. He met the right kind of woman and found God to boot. Was that the moral of the story? Kitty over pussy.......In Crime and Punishment, I always felt the student killed the pawnbroker to prove not that he was more decisive than Napoleon but rather that he was more despicable than the pawnbroker. In the end, he doesn't find peace and love but rather the fulfillment of all his masochism. There he is in a shack in Siberia with only a Jesus freak for company.; 8/27/19, 10:41 PM
mockturtle said...: Per narciso: I think one of the problems with pre communist russia was the orthodox faith had calcified in a way close to that of 1st century judaism, it had become so rigorous and yet so irrelevamt that nihlistic philosophyd had come to pass,

Yes. This extreme ritualism evident in Tolstoy's novels gave evidence that the mere 'practice' of religious observances was spiritually unsatisfying.; 8/27/19, 10:44 PM
J. Farmer said...: @narciso:

Who else shut down the govt and diverted funds to the wall building.

To what is that a reply? And here is some useful context on the wall published last month in the Washington Examiner. It was front paged on Drudge the same day.; 8/27/19, 10:46 PM
mockturtle said...: The Brothers Karamazov is one of my favorite novels.

Mine, too, exiled! But I admit I found Crime and Punishment even better. Both had, I thought, weak endings. Just as Beethoven had difficulty ending a symphony, so did Dostoyevsky with ending a novel. But with TBK I was heartbroken to finish the novel and missed the characters terribly as if they were real people in my life. That's the big difference between the two authors, I believe. Tolstoy's characters never really ring true.; 8/27/19, 10:48 PM
narciso said...: I think dosteyevsky didnt idealize his characters as much as tolstoy, that might be the difference, the firmer was strongly influenced by pobestdenev a very orthodox fellos; 8/27/19, 10:53 PM
Ken B said...: “Beethoven had trouble ending a symphony “

What's your GPS mockturtle? Need precise coordinates for the missile.; 8/27/19, 10:55 PM
Ken B said...: Omar's campaign paid over $230k to her adulterous lover's company.; 8/27/19, 11:00 PM
narciso said...: Sometimes you have to clean the decks:

https://mobile.twitter.com/realJeffreyP/status/1166508818395799552; 8/27/19, 11:04 PM
Guildofcannonballs said...: I decided I need another hello.; 8/27/19, 11:07 PM
mockturtle said...: I think dosteyevsky didnt idealize his characters as much as tolstoy

Yes, I think that's key, narciso.; 8/27/19, 11:09 PM
Yancey Ward said...: Mockturtle:

"I need to discuss Tolstoy. Having recently finished War and Peace and am nearly finished with Anna Karenina, which I had read previously, I am struck by the fact that, in both cases, the principal [autobiographical, as I understand] character, Pierre in one and Levin in the other are both fools and passive-aggressive in their nature. So was this Tolstoy?"

If you haven't before, you might want to read Tolstoy's own "A Confession". It will probably answer a lot of your question. It is a an autobiographical discussion of his crisis of faith and the purpose of life. I hadn't thought of this book in a very long time until I saw your question at the top.; 8/27/19, 11:17 PM
steve uhr said...: From the preface of my 1942 edition War and Peace (which I have started many times). By Clifton Fadiman:

"I happen to be writing these words in February 1942. It is understood, therefore that the obvious parallels any amateur can draw between the Napoleonic campaigns of 1805 and 1812 as described by Tolstoy and the Nazi campaign of 1941-42 are good only as of today. ... At this writing, the titanic battle of Russia, a part of the general battle for the soul of man, is far from a decision. Hitler's retreat, while obviously not strategic in the sense he planned, is, on the other hand, far from being the rout that some wishful thinkers would make it out. But it represents a physical and moral defeat, the proportions of which probably no one knows except the German General Staff. Certainly the back of Fascism does not appear to be broken after Moscow. Napoleon's dream died with his dying legions in the snow. Hitler's dream - the same vision, dreamed by a people instead of a single tyrant-is by no means dead. We do not yet know (unless faith is knowledge) whether Hitler will retrace completely the mighty Napoleonic parabola or whether he will succeed temporarily in his nightmare design of covering our planet with an Egyptian night. If he should fail, a new Tolstoy may arise fifty years hence to chronicle the vast drama of his rise and fall. It he should succeed, that new Tolstoy will not arise. For there will be no novelists or poets. The humane and philosophic view of life from which supreme works of art spring will have been blotted out"; 8/27/19, 11:19 PM
Yancey Ward said...: Ok, I see someone has already mentioned it- never mind.; 8/27/19, 11:20 PM
wildswan said...: The only one of Tolstoy's books I finished was Hadji Murad, his last book which was short. It was about the Russian empire and the Muslims, and a Muslim leader who gets caught between them and ground to pieces because of all the different factions. There's no way to be loyal because everyone is treacherous yet loyalty is required because a war is going on. But I just couldn't like the book or truly care about Hadji or any of the others. I feel as if you could learn to analyze human dilemmas from Tolstoy. But I personally can't get to like his characters.; 8/27/19, 11:30 PM
Seeing Red said...: Don’t care. Glad I don’t live North.

But global cooling will do that to you.; 8/27/19, 11:31 PM
Yancey Ward said...: Shouldn't Biden, if he really believes that, step aside and endorse Booker? I mean, walk the talk, Slow Joe.; 8/27/19, 11:36 PM
traditionalguy said...: Tolstoy was a great writer. His subject was Russian Orthodox Faith running the biggest Empire on earth, which worked out as War on the borders to preserve the peace of the Czar’s Church ruling. The military class did that. Voila, you can now understand Putin.; 8/27/19, 11:47 PM
narciso said...: The great grandson of hadji murad, fought the siviets in the 30, also kind of allied with the nazis, hence their subsequent deportatuon to siberia, anton marras conatellation takes off where hadji ended; 8/28/19, 12:11 AM
narciso said...: Soviets, also the subjects of the lions of paradise.; 8/28/19, 12:12 AM
narciso said...: Then there was a french novel about hadjis son eing raised as nobleman by a georgian pdinceess, george chavchavadze; 8/28/19, 12:21 AM
narciso said...: Sorry thats the patriarch of the family, i read some pushkin stories as well.; 8/28/19, 12:25 AM
Fen said...: Farmer: To what is that a reply? And here is some useful context on the wall published last month in the Washington Examiner. It was front paged on Drudge the same day.

See? Farmer really really really wants that wall built but can't support Trump because it's "not being built fast enough", even though it's being built AS WE SPEAK.

I smell a concern troll.; 8/28/19, 12:36 AM
Fen said...: Narayanan: Fen is quick to tell me I don't know what I'm talking about when he disagrees with me. He is less quick to actually point out the inaccuracies.|

Could you actually point that out? I have no memory of what you are talking about.

Thanks.

And when I refuse to waste time pointing out an inaccuracy, more often than not it's because I have grown tired of explaining that water is wet, etc.

But if I've wronged you in some way, please feel free to bring it to my attention and I will point out your inaccuracies in as much detail as you would prefer ;); 8/28/19, 12:41 AM
Fen said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 8/28/19, 12:49 AM
Fen said...: Farmer: Here is what I wrote six days ago -

I'm talking about something you wrote several months ago, when you went off on Trump because he wasn't building the wall fast enough. Others here also found it an odd complaint, something you would expect from a concern troll, not from someone who honestly wanted border security.

In fact, several people told you to lighten up, that yes, they agreed Trump's presidency would be defined as a failure if he didn't get the wall built, but that you needed to lighten up, he was actually getting it done, and at a decent pace considering all the resistance he had met in Congress and from rogue judges.

Would you like to address that? Revise and extend those remarks? Because I'm sure a lot of others here remember what you said. Your remarks were noteworthy in that they had everyone scratching their heads, wondering if you had been drinking paint thinner.

"I can't support Reagan, he promised to fight communism but the Berlin wall still stands..."; 8/28/19, 12:50 AM
Fen said...: I mean, most of us are happy the wall is getting built at all. We've been chasing this since the 80's, compromised 3 times on some version of amnesty in exchange to get it built and were betrayed every time.

Go on record - what pace would satisfy a "border hawk not a concern troll no really" like yourself? How many miles built or replaced per month?

450 more miles is expected to be completed by 2020.

Is 50 miles per month good enough for you? 100 miles per month? Give us a reasonable number of border wall miles per month that will satisfy a "border hawk not a concern troll no really" like yourself...

Because I think you are full of shit.; 8/28/19, 12:59 AM
Ralph L said...: Cankles!; 8/28/19, 1:00 AM
Fen said...: OMG she really is melting!

... to see your enemies driven before you, to watch their hags melt into...

Hmmm. Needs work.; 8/28/19, 1:04 AM
Fen said...: Trump: Presto! And the Border Wall has been finished.

Farmer: ...

Trump: What is it this time, Farmer?

Farmer: It's not painted. I can no longer support you. Worst President Evah!; 8/28/19, 1:07 AM
purplepenquin said...: You know that scene in The Sopranos where Tony beats the fuck out of that animal that sexually harasses his daughter, then at the end props him on a ledge and finishes him off? That’s what ole Chuck deserves. Ceptin when done this time, cut his balls off and stick em in his mouth. That would be nice.

Why does Chuck deserve that? Seriously - what exactly did he do to so many of ya on this forum that ya'll wish to beat the fuck out of him? And not just beat him up, but also cut his balls off...or hung from a gallows...or attacked by dogs...or put up against a wall & shot...or any of the other stuff that is said? Did he break into your house and take a shit on your coffee table? Pinch your momma on her booty? Kick your dog? Fuck your wife? Did he dress up like Santa and take pictures with your kids?

For real - what exactly did he do in order to deserve such hate-filled rants and death threats? I've drifted in&out of this blog this past few years, and thus haven't seen the terrible and horrible things he must have committed in order to bring out such strong emotions from so many different people - can someone please explain? Thanks.; 8/28/19, 1:30 AM
Fen said...: Farmer (link): The 50 miles of completed replacement barrier is a 10-mile gain since early April. In Trump’s two and a half years in office, his administration has installed an average 1.7 miles of barrier per month, and none of it in areas that did not previously have some sort of barrier.

See how biased your information is? The barrier is replacing fencing that was inadequate, easily hurdled by illegals. Lots of what WAS defined as "border wall" are actually just vehicle barriers do not stop pedestrian traffic. They have to be replaced, yes?

The second video from the top shows an actual before and after - illegals swarming over a useless 10 foot wall VS the new wall in place.

So my only question is: why are you pushing this propaganda? It's like you're pulling a Chuck, promoting likes to divide Trump from his supporters over the wall.

It's why I think you are full of shit about your "support" for the border wall - your methods are deceptive and dishonest. Why? To what end? If you support border security, why would you misrepresent and lie about the progress Trump has made getting it built?; 8/28/19, 1:32 AM
Fen said...: Purple: Why does Chuck deserve that?

Where did you pull that quote from? I scanned the comments here and don't see it.

Did you just make it up?

If it's from another thread, why didn't you provide a link.

Can you provide a link?; 8/28/19, 1:35 AM
Fen said...: 450 more miles of border wall are expected to be completed by the end of 2020.

That's 450 miles divided by 16 months =

28 miles per month.

Is 28 miles of border wall built per month fast enough to satisfy you Farmer?

Or will you find a new bitch to concern troll us over?; 8/28/19, 1:43 AM
Fen said...: Narayanan: Fen is quick to tell me I don't know what I'm talking about when he disagrees with me. He is less quick to actually point out the inaccuracies.

How do ya like me now? :P; 8/28/19, 1:45 AM
Fen said...: But if I've wronged you in some way, please feel free to bring it to my attention and I will point out your inaccuracies in as much detail as you would prefer ;)

Heh. Seriously though Narayanan, give me some examples of what you are talking about, and I'll make an honest effort to be better.

Cheers.; 8/28/19, 1:47 AM
Fen said...: Purple: Why does Chuck deserve that?

What's up Purple? I asked you for a link 15 mins ago. Where did you go? You are SUPER concerned about Chuck but can't be bothered to back up your "quote" with a link?

Ring and run, eh?

Post the fucking link...; 8/28/19, 1:49 AM
purplepenquin said...: Calm your titties Fen. It was from last nite Cafe post. A thread you posted in - both before and after that was said. (Assuming "Fen" and "Grand Beagle Fen" are one/same...if that assumption is incorrect then my sincere apologies.)

And I ain't concerned about Chuck so much as I am about you & the others who go into total meltdown mode whenever he posts. Can you tell me exactly what he did that makes you hate him so much? 'cause I truly don't understand the venom and threats thrown his way...nothing I've seen from him seems to warrant it.; 8/28/19, 2:13 AM
Amadeus 48 said...: So, I was perusing Instapundit here in Europe and up popped an ad for Trump Plastic Straws. My neverTrump wife has been fuming about the banning of safe, useful, indestructible plastic straws, and now America’s greatest promoter provides a solution.

He is playing for keeps, folks.; 8/28/19, 3:02 AM
Mr. Forward said...: I remember reading the comment Fen wants Purple to link. Mostly because the violent sentiment seemed out of place on this usually civil blog.

I couldn’t remember the Soprano episode referred to which made me reconsider rewatching the series. Breaking Bad and Justified are other candidates for a second go round. But then I remember all the fluff and filler all these series resort to when they are unexpectedly renewed for another season. The Perils of Pauline cliffhangers is what hooks us and it’s hard to recreate suspense when you already know the ending. Perhaps the memory loss associated with aging will make old favorites fresh again.

Althouse was correct when she identified the genre as soap operas, some would say the same about War and Peace. Or Chuck.; 8/28/19, 3:38 AM
J. Farmer said...: @Fen:

Could you actually point that out? I have no memory of what you are talking about.

That was actually him quoting what I said a few posts earlier and then adding the comment about "wrongthink."

See? Farmer really really really wants that wall built but can't support Trump because it's "not being built fast enough", even though it's being built AS WE SPEAK.

In your several posts of fulminating, I noticed that you cant actually explain how it is I "can't support Trump." You just seem to be stuck on that phrase like some pull string Chatty Cathy doll. You also put quotes around something I've never said.

See how biased your information is? The barrier is replacing fencing that was inadequate, easily hurdled by illegals. Lots of what WAS defined as "border wall" are actually just vehicle barriers do not stop pedestrian traffic. They have to be replaced, yes?

All of that information was contained in the link. And I agree with everything you wrote here. Yes inadequate fencing needs to be replaced. I'm happy this is getting done.

Or will you find a new bitch to concern troll us over?

As you said, "several months ago" I made very specific and pointed criticisms of specific decisions the President has made. You're still apparently in a fit about it. How much ever medication you're taking, I would recommend asking your daughter about an increase.; 8/28/19, 3:39 AM
Fen said...: Farmer: I made very specific and pointed criticisms of specific decisions the President has made. You're still apparently in a fit about it.

Nah, I just think you are a concern troll and am giving you a chance to prove me wrong.

Don't change the subject just answer the fucking question:

Is 28 miles of border wall built per month fast enough to satisfy you Farmer?

Give us a reasonable number of border wall miles per month that will satisfy a "border hawk not a concern troll no really" like yourself...

I notice you posted a 200 word distraction and somehow failed to answer my simple question. Was that intentional? You refuse to go on record? Why? Put up or shut up.; 8/28/19, 4:11 AM
Fen said...: Purple: Calm your titties Fen. It was from last nite Cafe post. A thread you posted in

I don't remember seeing it. If others say so (not you, liar) I'll grant that.

But next time, if you are going to post something like that, with your poor rep, how about posting an actual link to back it up?

Liar gets righteous because his integrity is questioned, sheesh.; 8/28/19, 4:14 AM
Fen said...: How many miles per month, Chuck... I mean Farmer. Same diff.; 8/28/19, 4:17 AM
J. Farmer said...: @Fen:

Nah, I just think you are a concern troll and am giving you a chance to prove me wrong.

Oh my god, an anonymous commenter on the Internet thinks I am a "concern troll." How will I ever find the strength to carry on? Allow me to offer you a simple solution, don't read anything I post.

Give us a reasonable number of border wall miles per month that will satisfy a "border hawk not a concern troll no really" like yourself...

That's a meaningless question. If Trump does not win in 2020, it will be a moot point. If he does, he will have four more years to get it done. We'll have to wait and see.

You refuse to go on record?

Yes, I "refuse to go on record" (ie post a comment on a blog) about your meaningless metric.

Put up or shut up.

Shut up about an argument we had, by your own estimation, "several months ago?" When have I brought up progress on the wall since that time.; 8/28/19, 4:22 AM
Jaq said...: War and Peace is kind of a potboiler. I read it forty years ago, so take this for what it is worth. I think Dostoyevski’s novels are more interior focused, psychological novels, sometimes I think brutally honest, and Tolstoy was more like Dickens, creating dramatic situations in which his characters acted and leaving the reader to plumb the depths of their souls... or not.; 8/28/19, 5:19 AM
Jaq said...: "Florida farmers formed a coalition this summer to study and combat the impact of climate change on agriculture in the state. The group also might seek new state subsidies...”

LOL

You want to see sick rich, look at the sugar growers in South Florida.; 8/28/19, 6:11 AM
Ralph L said...: the others who go into total meltdown mode whenever he posts

I agree, it's easy to just skip over Chuck, but the constant LLRs afterwards are really tiresome and unoriginal. It wears out my scroll button.; 8/28/19, 6:12 AM
Rusty said...: J.
Last month you expressed skepticism over whether Trump was serious about building the wall. I think enough examples were given at the time to dispel any doubts.
What is it the Russians say? "The perfect is the enemy of the good."; 8/28/19, 7:15 AM
Fernandinande said...: Fools, Holy Fools, or Idiots?

Prince Myshkin was obviously based on the Jed Clampett character.

Narr, Dostoyevsky is my favorite author and Shakespeare my favorite playwright.

You might have mixed feelings about Orwell's article calling Tolstoy a dummy for saying Shakespeare sucked.; 8/28/19, 7:16 AM
Original Mike said...: "The second video from the top shows an actual before and after - illegals swarming over a useless 10 foot wall VS the new wall in place."

That's a big, beautiful wall.

My take is Trump has done what he could in the face of an intransigent opposition.; 8/28/19, 7:38 AM
Mrs. X said...: Tolstoy had a spiritual crisis after he finished AK. He decided that writing was self aggrandizing and therefore bad. He vowed to give up writing but found he couldn’t (a relief to his wife—he made money writing!) In the meanwhile, he farmed badly, made shoes badly and got himself excommunicated from the Russian Orthodox Church. (He thought people should live as Jesus had and bad mouthed the church; church was not down with this.) He founded his own religion, the Tolstoyans. I recommend “The Death of Ivan Ilyich,” a great lager Tolstoy short story. Also anything Nabokov wrote about Tolstoy. Also, watch The Last Station, great movie about the end of Tolstoy’s life with Helen Mirren and Christopher Plummer.; 8/28/19, 7:53 AM
Mrs. X said...: Later, not lager!; 8/28/19, 7:54 AM
MadisonMan said...: Our monsoon season has crapped out on us.

The 'nonsoon'. Saw that word today. I have never read Tolstoy.; 8/28/19, 8:01 AM
Chuck said...: Blogger Fen said...
Purple:” Calm your titties Fen. It was from last nite Cafe post. A thread you posted in “

I don't remember seeing it. If others say so (not you, liar) I'll grant that.

But next time, if you are going to post something like that, with your poor rep, how about posting an actual link to back it up?

Liar gets righteous because his integrity is questioned, sheesh.

No need to question anything. Purple was correct.

This was the comment, by “donald”:

Blogger donald said...
You know that scene in The Sopranos where Tony beats the fuck out of that animal that sexually harasses his daughter, then at the end props him on a ledge and finishes him off?

That’s what ole Chuck deserves. Ceptin when done this time, cut is balls off and stick em in his mouth.

That would be nice.

8/27/19, 6:08 AM

And here is the .url for that page of comments (sorry I could not call up the specific comment link on my iPhone):

https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=6329595&postID=4656129649782807859

So there you go; I think that’s what you requested.

I saw that comment go up and I said nothing about it. First because I have no need or desire to engage with such freaks. But moreover because I thought the comment, and however long it remained in place (it’s still there) was such a nice illustration of the state of the Althouse commentariat, and especially the complete lack of moderation on this mom and pop blog.

Also; the personal attacks on me, on that page were because I had elected (it was a cafe post) to link to the story about how Trump, at his final G7 press engagement, claimed that his wife Melania had become good friends with Kim Jong Un. It was a lie of course. A weirdly purposeless lie, that was quickly exposed when White House reporters asked about it and pointed out that there is no record of Melania having ever met the North Korean dictator. And the White House quickly conceded that as true, and immediately made up some garbage about how Trump had talked to Melania about his encounters with the little dictator.

And since there is no good or easy explanation for this small episode of Trump sociopathy, and since I was so clearly having so much fun with it, the attacks on me got very personal very quickly.; 8/28/19, 8:11 AM
J. Farmer said...: @Rusty:

J.

Last month you expressed skepticism over whether Trump was serious about building the wall. think enough examples were given at the time to dispel any doubts.

It was not so much that I "expressed skepticism over whether Trump was serious about building the wall" but rather criticisms of the several unforced errors made along the way in trying to get the wall built (e.g. punting to Paul Ryan's domestic agenda, signing the omnibus bill, blinking in the government shutdown battle). My thinking on Trump's immigration is reflected quite a bit by Mickey Kaus during this segment of his recent Bloggingheads with Bob Wright.; 8/28/19, 8:17 AM
Anonymous said...: mock: I'd love to hear others' weigh on on my observations.

I've never read War and Peace. I love Anna Karenina. As for Tolstoy, I always thought he was a great example of the saying (forget by whom, and I paraphrase) that a great work of art can be far more intelligent than its creator. Tolstoy the man always struck me as a typical "clever silly" in his non-fiction writing, half-baked and philosophically naïve. (Working from ancient memory here.) Yet his characters are never the victims of any of that. They're observed with a minute disinterest that lets them escape Tolstoy's preachiness (which does feature in the novel.) He wants to preach, but the realness he has given them gets in the way. He doesn't make them sympathetic by writing them as sympathetic.; 8/28/19, 8:26 AM
Mike Sylwester said...: Michael
This could have been you:https://longreads.com/2018/09/12/a-trip-to-tolstoy-farm/

Thanks for the link. I'll read it.; 8/28/19, 8:28 AM
Chuck said...: This story in today’s Washington Post just ended any/every/all hope for The Wall:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/beta.washingtonpost.com/immigration/take-the-land-president-trump-wants-a-border-wall-he-wants-it-black-and-he-wants-it-by-election-day/2019/08/27/37b80018-c821-11e9-a4f3-c081a126de70_story.html%3foutputType=amp

(That is a Google-reader .url that seems to avoid the WaPo paywall.)

There’s no answer to this. The White House can go into elaborate denials about how hard the President is pushing for a wall. Okay, let’s all watch as he stops pushing.

Or they can do the Trump thing of doubling down and saying that yes the President is committed to pardoning all Executive Branch staff who are found guilty of federal lawbreaking as they illegally take land or illegally construct wall or arrange for funding.

Haha. All in the next 18 months.

As long as this show isn’t cancelled next fall.; 8/28/19, 8:30 AM
virgil xenophon said...: mockturtle@9:31

Way late here, but fyi I had the good fortune to meet and socialize with "the Dragon Lady" as a junior AF officer in 1968 by dint of my combat tour in RVN and the fact that my first cousin (my Mother was 20 yrs younger than the rest of her family so her cousins were all roughly her age) was then a 1-Star(WP-43) in charge of the old (now defunct) Taiwan Defense Command. I took leave to visit him at my first opportunity. When I flew in from DaNang, turns out he was to be given a "good-boy" award by the Generalissimo that week followed by the usual pro-forma banquet wherein I was not only introduced to both the Generalissimo and Madame Chiang, but I was seated next to Madame Chiang herself as a dinner companion! She was everything she was advertised--eloquent, knowledgeable about all things large and small--from fashion to geopolitics--subtly sexual but covering a steely will-to-power like a velvet glove--the total package par excellent! And when she was younger? She had to have been a total killer! Considering her experiences in WW II and since, and from what I gleaned between the lines of our conversation, her life seems to have been similar to that of the Spartan Athenian Aclibieas of whom the poet Virgil is said to have claimed that: "history is what Aclibieas lived and suffered."; 8/28/19, 8:32 AM
mockturtle said...: AAT asserts: ...Tolstoy was more like Dickens, creating dramatic situations in which his characters acted and leaving the reader to plumb the depths of their souls... or not.

Can you think of even one character of Tolstoy's novels remotely memorable, like Mr. Micawber or Uriah Heep? Fagan?; 8/28/19, 8:40 AM
mockturtle said...: Virgil: Thank you for the anecdote. I'm looking forward to reading about her.; 8/28/19, 8:42 AM
mockturtle said...: Mrs X: Thanks for the recommendation! I'll write it down so I don't forget.; 8/28/19, 8:44 AM
purplepenquin said...: But next time, if you are going to post something like that, with your poor rep, how about posting an actual link to back it up?

Liar gets righteous because his integrity is questioned

Funny, you keep repeating this charge, and I keep asking you to point out what I've gotten wrong, and I get...crickets (h/t to Farmer)

Seriously - post a link to where you think I was lying. As you said yourself - put up or shut up and provide the fucking link.

And, now that we've cleared up that the quote was actually said, can you explain why you hate Chuck so much? I have my theory (based on his response in this thread) but would like you hear your own (and others) reasoning for it.

Are you able to articulate your opinion and give your reasons? If so, please do so.; 8/28/19, 9:06 AM
Narr said...: Mockturtle, if you're still checking here, and others. De gustibus and all that--so much good lit and film out there, nobody can know and enjoy it all. Enjoyed all the literary and movie insights; less so all this absurd calling-out and chest-pounding (you know who you are and most of you can do better).

Dominic Lieven's "Russian Against Napoleon" (1812-1815) is one of the best milhist books I've ever read. It's revisionist in the best sense, and gives me a real admiration for their efforts and accomplishments.

The big take-aways: The R leadership knew an invasion was coming, that they would have to absorb it (and could), that eventually they would need allies to ensure their victory, and
that by 1813 and certainly in 1814 the R forces were the backbone and in many instances far the best troops in the final Coalition.

Narr
It's thorough!; 8/28/19, 11:31 AM
mockturtle said...: It's revisionist in the best sense,

That seems to me a contradiction in terms. ;-); 8/28/19, 1:33 PM
Narr said...: Russia, not Russian.

History is a process of constant re-vision, or should be.

Narr
Grad school wisdom in the best sense; 8/28/19, 6:51 PM
Fen said...: Fen: Give us a reasonable number of border wall miles per month that will satisfy a "border hawk not a concern troll no really" like yourself...

Farmer: "That's a meaningless question."

Ha. That's what I thought.

Last month you went on and on about how Trump wasn't building the wall fast enough for your satisfaction. How he had lost your support. How we should abandon him over this "failure". Now, when asked what pace would satisfy you, you dodge the question.

I KNEW your "border hawk" pose was bullshit.; 8/28/19, 7:01 PM
Fen said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 8/28/19, 7:32 PM
mockturtle said...: Narr asserts: History is a process of constant re-vision, or should be.

And I disagree. To me, the best history is that written contemporaneously.; 8/28/19, 7:41 PM
Fen said...: Purple: Seriously - post a link to where you think I was lying.

Only if you drop the sockpuppet... maybe throw in a lap dance too?

Purple: can you explain why you hate Chuck so much? I have my theory (based on his response in this thread) but would like you hear your own (and others) reasoning for it.

It's not hatred, and that wasn't my quote. And I have explained this several times. But we will pretend you are asking in good faith and I will explain it to you One More Time:

"When we defeat and enemy, we tend to their wounded and treat captured troops humanely.
But traitors? Traitors we hang."

See, Chuck is treated harsher than any Lefty here because he claims to be a Republican NeverTrumper. Now, you may not be aware of this, but the Republican Party has had a kind of pact for many decades now (my memory of it starts with Reagan). Goes something like this: "We may fight like cats and dogs during the primaries, but once we have decided on our nominee for President, we will rally around and support them, for the good of the party."

Trump supporters upheld our end of the bargain for years. When the RINO Romney was nominated, we held our nose, expressed our criticism in private, supported him publicly and voted for him. When the "Maverick Moderate" McCain sellout was nominated, we held our nose and did the same.

Now comes Trump, and it's the RINO Establishment's turn to hold THEIR nose, express THEIR criticism privately, and support OUR nominee publicly. And what do people like Chuck do? They break their word, they bolt the party, they form a NeverTrump Cuckhold of sore losers who openly advocate for Hillary FUCKING Clinton. They embrace our enemies and openly attempt to sabotage our legitimately elected Republican President.

Hanging is too good for them. NeverTrumpers help us to the GOP pact but then broke the agreement when it suited them. They are traitors and will be treated as such. Forever.

Now, other people have other reasons the despise Chuck, quickly listed:

1) Chuck is a Moby, pretending to be a Republican so he can attack Trump from the right. Not only is this seen as dishonest, his amateurish attempt insults the intelligence of many who have gotten tired of rolling their eyes. Calling the base "teabaggers" was a disaster for any remaining credibility he had.

2) Chuck routinely disrupts decent conversations with his Moby Trolling and latest "gotcha" that no one cares about (see: Titleist Gate), and has confessed that his goal on this blog is to destroy it by "driving a wedge between Althouse and her commenters". People who could care less about Trump are very annoyed by this.

3) Chuck has been politely asked to leave this blog by Meade, and has refused to do so. This is seen as not only rude, but in many eyes now justifies whatever invective and hatred they can cast his way. He is squatting in Althouse's living room after she told him to leave.

Hope that helps inform your "concern" about the way Chuck is treated here.

And that is very odd: whenever Chuck is wounded so badly he has to leave the field, you suddenly show up to defend him or carry on where he left off. That's a pattern I advise you stop repeating. It's why I suspect you are his sock.

And really, why would you want to associate or defend a traitor? Even the Brits despised Benedict Arnold. The Chinese even have proverbs warning against it.; 8/28/19, 7:42 PM