August 27, 2019

"Although the Dalai Lama reassured me that he intends to live well past 100, speculation about succession is already rife."

"In what may be the world's only example of an atheist state extending its jurisdiction into the spirit world, Beijing has declared that any attempted reincarnation must 'comply with Chinese laws.' For his part, the Dalai Lama intends to be reincarnated, if at all, outside Chinese rule. He believes that in the long run his program of Tibetan autonomy under Chinese suzerainty can work, in part because sympathetic Han Chinese Buddhists will prod future, presumably more democratic Chinese governments to treat Tibet with greater sensitivity. In the meantime, the Tibetan national movement's goal of autonomy and its adherence to nonviolence despite Chinese provocation enables the Tibetan government-in-exile to function around the world and -- where Chinese pressure is not too severe -- to enjoy quasidiplomatic standing...."

From "A Visit With the Dalai Lama/He vows that Chinese law won’t govern the conditions of his reincarnation." (Wall Street Journal).

83 comments:

traditionalguy said...

The Chinese Dragon wants no competition on earth or in heaven.

Bay Area Guy said...

Sorry, thinking of Bill Murray's famous ad-lib in Caddyshack on caddying for the Dalai Lama...

Fen said...

Beijing has declared that any attempted reincarnation must 'comply with Chinese laws.

Not a ridiculous demand. They are telling him to say he sees 5 lights when there are only 4

tim maguire said...

The Dalai Lama's death will trigger a dangerous chapter in Tibetan Buddhism, as the Chinese will put forth their own candidate. We will almost certainly see a schism between those behind the rice curtain and those not that may be reminiscent of the two-popes period in the Catholic Church. Except reuniting the factions will be far trickier due to the reincarnation aspect (theologically, there has been only 1 Dalai Lama).

Fen said...

The Dalai Lama's death will trigger a dangerous chapter in Tibetan Buddhism, as the Chinese will put forth their own candidate.

Well they've already bought Hillary and most of the Democrat party. Maybe she can run.

Fernandistein said...

Over-regulating reincarnation will lead to is back-alley reincarnations.

J Severs said...

"Beijing has declared that any attempted reincarnation must 'comply with Chinese laws.'" I had no idea that China's hegemony extended to the afterlife.

Sebastian said...

I thought the Mandate of Heaven ended with communism.

Mike Sylwester said...

Did China have slavery 400 years ago?

That should be a consideration in this current matter.

Fernandistein said...

Among the structured survey respondents, the two most common reasons for wanting a reincarnation were "living as myself right now would dramatically change my life" and "I can't afford to be a human now" (cited by 74% and 73%, respectively—Table 2).

Nearly four in 10 indicated that they had completed the life-cycle in their current bodies, and almost one-third said they were ready to be a different species. People also cited possible problems affecting their spiritual health or concerns about their own physical health (13% and 12%, respectively). Respondents wrote in a number of specific health reasons, from chronic or debilitating conditions such as cancer and cystic fibrosis to carnation-specific concerns such as allergies.

Fen said...

thinking of Bill Murray's famous ad-lib in Caddyshack on caddying for the Dalai Lama

Funny. Trump's Presidency reminds me of Rodney Dangerfield taking over the Rolling Hills Golf Club in Caddyshack.

Is that John McCain in the hat? :)



Vance said...

I'm waiting for one of the Democrat candidates to proclaim they are Jesus reborn, sent here to save us from the Demon Trump; and how we should all worship said Democrat candidate.

Obama already got the worship part, so that's not new. I wonder who is that egotistical on the left to demand that people think they are Jesus reborn? My money is on Booker.

That said, there is the major problem that the left hates Jesus and would gleefully crucify Him again if they could. So maybe they won't claim to be Jesus again? More like Mohammed? Eh, too many triggered Muslims. They could likely get away with claiming to be Mohammed's 6 year old wife though.

Fen said...

Nearly four in 10 indicated that they had completed the life-cycle in their current bodies, and almost one-third said they were ready to be a different species.

There are currently an estimated 10 Quadrillion ants on the planet.

Odds are good you will be reincarnated as an ant.

n.n said...

Communists have a PC theology dedicated to mortal gods. They're very Pro-Choice and reserve the rite to define life, the universe, and everything to conform with their ambitions.

Lucid-Ideas said...

I hate to break it to Tenzin, but the line of succession - as he and those before him knew it - will die with him.

I think high Lamas and others remaining loyal to the government in exile know this as well. It would be virtually impossible to avoid Chinese interference in the process from the outset, anywhere in the world a successor might be found. Even if the process were to remain reliable and legitimate in their minds, the Chinese would simply damn the successor to the same exile as Tenzin currently resides under.

The Dalai Lama has always said, "non-violence takes a long time" as if he and Tibetans have some kind of special relationship with patience. The Chinese can and have played this game too.

They have no qualms about creating a parallel succession - legitimate or not - and keeping and watering down that process over years, decades, and centuries.

Sad, but I think he's the last 'Dalai Lama'.

Fen said...

I once did a funny reincarnation riff that had my wife in tears.

I kept getting the short end - coming back as an ant. I briefly was a bird, joyous at my first flight only to be quickly eaten by a hawk... than back to ant again.

Bricap said...

Blogger Bay Area Guy said...

Sorry, thinking of Bill Murray's famous ad-lib in Caddyshack on caddying for the Dalai Lama...

8/27/19, 12:00 PM

Jesse Ventura met the Dalai Lama, and actually asked him if he had ever seen Caddyshack before. https://www.espn.com/page2/s/closer/020726.html

Relevant passage:

"The Dalai Lama's not a golfer. But when the Tibetan leader visited the United States last year, Minnesota Gov. Jesse Ventura asked him if he'd ever seen "Caddyshack." He told Ventura he hadn't seen the movie. But, Ventura said, "Before he [the Dalai Lama] left, he looked at me and said, 'Gunga, gunga la-gunga'." "

Fernandistein said...

"If I come back as an animal in my next lifetime, I hope it's some type of parasite, because this is the part where I take it easy!" -- Handey

And apparently the parasitic nematode has been a popular selection.

rehajm said...

Big hitter that Lama...long.

rehajm said...

Make me one with everything...

Nonapod said...

I wonder what specifc laws China has around reincarnation? Are their limits to what you can be reincarnated as? Or maybe there's a set duration on the time one's soul is allowed to be in bardo? And what are the punishments for violations of such rules?

J. Farmer said...

Whatever happened to Gedhun Choekyi Nyima?

J. Farmer said...

I wonder what specifc laws China has around reincarnation? Are their limits to what you can be reincarnated as? Or maybe there's a set duration on the time one's soul is allowed to be in bardo? And what are the punishments for violations of such rules?

As I understand it (though admittedly limited), China claims that it possesses the right to name the 15th Dalai Lama, obviously so it can choose a figure who will be more compliant, though I doubt most Tibetan Buddhists would recognize his legitimacy.

Bob Boyd said...

I hope Putin doesn't meddle in the reincarnation.

Fernandistein said...

Whatever happened to Gedhun Choekyi Nyima?

He appeared in King Of The Hill S04E18 "Won't You Pimai Neighbor" (~ 5:30)

PM said...

Wonder what's on the books for ascension, transfiguration and sleight-of-hand?

stevew said...

"Dalai Lama vows that Chinese law won’t govern the conditions of his reincarnation."

"Beijing has declared that any attempted reincarnation must 'comply with Chinese laws'."

I have to say reading those was literally an LOL moment for me. Then to be reminded of Bill Murray's famous ad lib in Caddyshack...! Good thing I don't have a beverage near by.

"Hey, Lama, hey, how about a little something, you know, for the effort, you know." And he says, "Oh, uh, there won't be any money, but when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness." So I got that goin' for me, which is nice."

MadisonMan said...

I wonder how many other 84-yos are convinced they'll live another 16 years or more.
Life has a way of laughing at your plans. I'd think the Dalai Lama would know that.

YoungHegelian said...

The Chicoms already have the Panchen Lama in their wheelhouse, and I guess they want the full Lama set.

YoungHegelian said...


The other day I went down to my favorite pizza parlor & ordered a Buddhist Pizza: "Make me one with everything!"

Nyuk-nyuk-nyuk-nyuk

The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...

"I hope Putin doesn't meddle in the reincarnation."

Brilliant.

tim maguire said...

Nonapod said...I wonder what specifc laws China has around reincarnation?

I'm guessing if they want Chinese recognition and the ability to practice in China, they have to accept the authority of the Communist Party

Bay Area Guy said...

At a local bar somewhere in Tibet....

Guy: Say, Baby, do you believe in Reincarnation?

Gal: Umm, not really.

Guy: Well, I do. And, I hope to come back as a pair of your sandals, so I could wear you out!

I am not Laslo, and will never be.

Yancey Ward said...

Bay Area Guy,

Me too!!!

Yancey Ward said...

I basically think about Caddyshack every single time I see a story about the Dalai Lama. Every time.

Tommy Duncan said...

Carl Spackler: So I jump ship in Hong Kong and I make my way over to Tibet, and I get on as a looper at a course over in the Himalayas.

Angie D’Annunzio: A looper?

Carl Spackler: A looper, you know, a caddy, a looper, a jock. So, I tell them I’m a pro jock, and who do you think they give me? The Dalai Lama, himself. Twelfth son of the Lama. The flowing robes, the grace, bald… striking. So, I’m on the first tee with him. I give him the driver. He hauls off and whacks one – big hitter, the Lama – long, into a ten-thousand foot crevasse, right at the base of this glacier. Do you know what the Lama says? Gunga galunga… gunga, gunga-lagunga. So we finish the eighteenth and he’s gonna stiff me. And I say, “Hey, Lama, hey, how about a little something, you know, for the effort, you know.” And he says, “Oh, uh, there won’t be any money, but when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness.” So I got that goin’ for me, which is nice.

Lem said...

If the Russians can steal our elections, the Chinese can easily steal a reincarnation.

Wince said...

"A Visit With the Dalai Lama/He vows that Chinese law won’t govern the conditions of his reincarnation."

Funny, didn't Ruth Bader Ginsburg say the same thing about the US Constitution as written?

AlbertAnonymous said...

What did the Dalai Lama say to the hot dog vendor....?

etbass said...

I think about Brad Pitt. And that, I admit is about the extent of my knowledge of Tibet. But It seems odd to me that the Chinese feel they must control this tiny area in the mountains. Probably has a negative GDP and what could they do to be a threat to China? Why don't they jus leave the Budhists alone.

I'm sure someone here will educate me.

Bilwick said...

I'm sure the DL is a better alternative to the Chicoms, but when you get down to it, isn't he just a theocrat? I mean, maybe a less obnoxious theocrat than your average "liberal" (as the saying goes, "liberalism--ideas so good they have to be mandatory"); but still . . . isn't he?

YoungHegelian said...

@etbass,

Why don't they jus leave the Budhists alone. I'm sure someone here will educate me.

A core ideal of the Chinese Communist Party's ideology is its promise to modernize China. Part of this modernization involves a "protracted struggle" with China's feudal past & deeply-rooted traditions, in which Buddhism forms a large part (see Mao's Four Olds Campaign).

No Communist regime other than the Khmer Rouge spent more time & effort in destroying the memory of the past than did Mao's China. Thousands & thousands of historical sites and artifacts were destroyed by the Communists. It was a huge cultural loss for humanity that, of course, doesn't get discussed because the far Left did it.

Just as western communists and Jacobins were at war with the established Christian churches, so the Chicoms went to war with the Buddhist, Taoist, Christian, & Confucian cultures that constituted Chinese culture at the time of the revolution.

J. Farmer said...

Precisely why the primary insight of modern conservatism is to be highly skeptical of revolution.

traditionalguy said...

It is given unto man to die once and after that comes the Judgement.GOD. The good news is that we know the Judge and his death, burial and resurrection has rigged the system.

Bob Boyd said...

reincarnation must 'comply with Chinese laws

For example, you have to get a permit.
There's also a mandated waiting period.
All applicable taxes and fees must be paid in full.
Your soul has to come to a complete halt before proceeding into the intersection of your former self and your new incarnation. If your soul just coasts into it's new body, that's like a California stop and you could get a ticket.
And you can't die drunk.

Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...

if the Reincarnators were to think ahead, or if the DL
can actually call the shots (to whatever extent), he
would return as an extremely popular, mellow Chinese head of state.

... or a smokin'-hot female pop star, like a cross between Taylor Swift and Mother Theresa.

Darkisland said...

What the Dallai Llama should do is declare that he is going to come back as the emperor of all China and these Godless communists better watch their asses or there will be some Biblical level retribution rained down on them.

John Henry

Darkisland said...

Why all the sympathy for Tibet and the Dalai Llama anyway? Read some histories of Tibet pre-1950. It makes some of the shithole countries we are familar with, like Haiti, look like paradises.

Buncha nasty, murdering, torturing savages. They still had slavery in the 1940s. The Chinese claim to have abolished it but I suspect that what they did was just rename it.

Is it "slavery" if the state does it? Is it "slavery" if the state does it under the pretense of "The Law" (H/T Bastiat) in retribution for some crime like wrongthink?

John Henry

Narr said...

It's a safe bet the next DL won't be a girl, anyway.

Narr
On this all parties agree!

Darkisland said...

On the other hand, he may not come back as the emperor but as something else.


REINCARNATION
by Wallace McRae

“What does Reincarnation mean?”
A cowpoke asked his friend.
His pal replied, “It happens when
Yer life has reached its end.
They comb yer hair, and warsh yer neck,
And clean yer fingernails,
And lay you in a padded box
Away from life’s travails.”

“The box and you goes in a hole,
That’s been dug into the ground.
Reincarnation starts in when
Yore planted ‘neath a mound.
Them clods melt down, just like yer box,
And you who is inside.
And then yore just beginnin’ on
Yer transformation ride.”

“In a while, the grass’ll grow
Upon yer rendered mound.
Till some day on yer moldered grave
A lonely flower is found.
And say a hoss should wander by
And graze upon this flower
That once wuz you, but now’s become
Yer vegetative bower.”

“The posy that the hoss done ate
Up, with his other feed,
Makes bone, and fat, and muscle
Essential to the steed,
But some is left that he can’t use
And so it passes through,
And finally lays upon the ground
This thing, that once wuz you.”

“Then say, by chance, I wanders by
And sees this upon the ground,
And I ponders, and I wonders at,
This object that I found.
I thinks of reincarnation,
Of life and death, and such,
And come away concludin’: ‘Slim,
You ain’t changed, all that much.'”

Or, if you prefer, this version by Riders in the Sky https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMVNpOY1loE

John Henry

Darkisland said...

A great book on the history of Tibet is Peter Hopkirk's "Trespassers on the Roof of the World" It is supposed to be about various attempts by westerners to enter Tibet going back to the Russians in 1700 or so but in the process covers a lot of other history.

First successful westerners that we know about was Francis Younghusband & Crew in about 1904.

Hopkirk wrote 4-5 other books about that part of the world. All well worth reading.

Kipling's Kim doesn't cover Tibet but does cover that general area and is a great adventure novel for children of all ages (including 70 year old children) I reread it every couple years and never tire of it.

One of Hopkirk's books is "The Search for Kim" in which he goes to India and visits the various places discussed in the novel. He speculates on who the various characters in the novel were really based on. If you like Kim, it is an excellent companion. If you've not read Kim, it may not make much sense.

Amazon has a free Kindle version of Kipling's complete works. I keep it, Conrad and Trollope's complete works on my tablet so that I always have something to read when nothing else appeals. Kipling seems underrated as an author. Most people just think of his poetry when they hear the name.

John Henry

GingerBeer said...

"Beijing has declared that any attempted reincarnation must 'comply with Chinese laws.' How did "The Babylon Bee" get scooped on that story?

buwaya said...

"Kipling seems underrated as an author."

Not in his day.

That was before politics took over literature.

tim in vermont said...

Just watched Caddyshack yesterday. I am still trying to figure out how it got less than five full stars.

tim in vermont said...

One of the proudest moments in the history of my “frowzy” hometown, as Kipling called it, was when he travelled there to meet Mark Twain.

Bay Area Guy said...

"Just watched Caddyshack yesterday. I am still trying to figure out how it got less than five full stars."

And, worse, the sainted Doug Kenney hated that gopher, disliked his own movie and jumped off a cliff in Hawaii at age 33.



Roughcoat said...

"But It seems odd to me that the Chinese feel they must control this tiny area in the mountains."

Location, location, location.

And: Kipling was one of the greatest writers of modern times. Or any time, actually.

Phidippus said...

What a card that Dalai Lama is. Always the iconoclast.

I wish him well in his current and future adventures.

Phidippus said...

I don't believe in reincarnation, but in case I'm wrong, I plan to put in for coming back as an Italian.

They have better food, better music, better wine, and a more reasonable work-life balance than Americans. Plus, they get laid a lot more, and you get to live in Italy, where the politicians are too busy with graft to be as much of a nuisance as they are here.

Downsides? Driving Italian cars with other Italians on the road.

tim in vermont said...

I guess that the Dalai Lama/Caddyshack thing is maybe a classic example of intertextuality.

Darkisland said...

Blogger Phidippus said...

I don't believe in reincarnation, but in case I'm wrong, I plan to put in for coming back as an Italian.

You should probably be a bit more specific. Whoever is in charge of reincarnation that day might have a sense of humor and send you back as a $2 whore in the Naples alleys.

Be sure to give my regards to the 6th Fleet!

John Henry

Dave said...

Someone asked about the why in this matter. Rare earth metals.

https://phys.org/news/2017-08-rare-metals-himalayas.html

As part of these trade negotiations, Trump should formally recognize the Dalai Lama as the head of state of Tibet. I get mad, but Trump would just threaten in order to get a better deal.

madAsHell said...

So, I've got that going for me.

Phidippus said...

Darkisland: Good point. That's the problem with these transactions where there's a big information asymmetry.

Thuglawlibrarian said...

Ruth Bader Ginsburg can replace him...

Oso Negro said...

I wonder what social score the Chinese will require for the Dalai Lama to be re-incarnated? It's hard enough to rate air travel.

tim in vermont said...

The Soviet Union never let just anybody travel. They may not have formalized it with a “social score” though. Communism is about control, free market libertarianism requires no such mechanism of control.

Fernandistein said...

We were getting kinda drunk and laughing about the neighbors calling the police because we're singing along to Led Zep's "Immigrant Song". That is all.

Mr. Majestyk said...

Can't all the Chinese just agree that they need commonsense reincarnation control?

tim in vermont said...

Do the Cubans let any yutz off the beach travel?

Mr. Majestyk said...

If the Chinese pick a black disabled trans lesbian Muslim as the new DL, I'm sure the Western Left will fully support them.

Oso Negro said...

Yes to common-sense reincarnation control! You don't want just anyone reincarnating as the Dalai Lama.

Narr said...

Yes to Hopkirk--excellent histories of various escapades of and related to the Great Game.

Narr
Yes to Kipling too

n.n said...

rare-metals-himalayas

South Africa, too, which was wrecked in a social justice adventure that prosecuted the lynching of dissenting blacks and genocide of native whites.

n.n said...

Planned population in a great leap, planned parenthood in a progressive policy, and now, not satisfied with managing the mortal realm, they have a forward-looking policy for planned reincarnation.

h said...

The headline in a weird way, mis-spells "Ruth Bader Ginsburg" as "Dalai Lama". Explanations welcome.

Narayanan said...

Tibet almost twice area of Texas.

https://mapfight.appspot.com/texas-vs-tibet/texas-tibet-china-size-comparison

Nichevo said...

Amazon has a free Kindle version of Kipling's complete works.


Please Supply a link or item number, this does not show up on my phone. Thank you.

Clyde said...

He "intends to live well past 100"? The road to mortality is paved with good intentions. The actuarial tables are not in his favor on making centenarian status, nor for any of the rest of us as well; American men have a less than 1% chance of living to age 100, according to the SSA.gov actuarial tables from 2015.

Temujin said...

I'm here. And I'm ready.

Quaestor said...

Make me one with everything...

But hold the anchovies.

JAORE said...

a cross between Taylor Swift and Mother Theresa.

Ah, but imagine the WORST traits of these two....

John henry said...

Nichevo

I thought it was free. It now seems to be $1.99.

Not sure if this is the same edition but it looks pretty complete.

John Henry