"... over the last month it has been impossible not to notice an undercurrent of something approaching opprobrium, a sense that while the United States must be praised for winning, it can be condemned for not winning, somehow, in the right way.... Individually, all of these incidents fall somewhere on the border between trivial and laughable. Taken together, though, they indicate a pattern; their frequency suggests a trend toward the policing of the behavior — and particularly the joy — of the American players. There is no question that this United States team is revered for its efficacy, its talent, its history; nobody would deny its claim to be the best in the world. It does not, though, seem to be especially well-liked.... This United States is the dominant force in women’s soccer.... That comes with the inevitable consequence that rivals and challengers and usurpers tend to want to see it fall, to take pleasure in its perceived failings, to start to feel resentment alongside their reverence. Perhaps, then, there is a compliment hidden in the criticism...."
From
"With No Argument on Substance, Critics Take Aim at U.S.’s Style/Attempts to police the joy the United States has taken in rampaging through the Women’s World Cup only confirm what should be clear: the team is different from everyone else" (NYT).
I read that shortly after reading this, from Equipment Maintenance in the comments to one of yesterday's posts:
"I didn't root for Spassky but I will be rooting for The Netherlands today."
UPDATE: Poll results:
Posts
242 comments:
1 – 200 of 242 Newer› Newest»Good morning, Althouse. Nice post! The first part sounded like a commentary on the 4th of July extravaganza. I was rising to the bait, then you pulled the rug out. Very clever, although don't know if it was a happy accident. Of course I want our girls to kick ass, but it's women's soccer. If it was men's soccer, I would care even less.
I'm rooting for the US, but having to have controversy around every aspect of it (starting with pre-tournament pay disputes) has taken away most of my caring abilities. I feel like everything surrounding women these days has to be some woman-focused lesson, and I'm not here for it.
I have a slightly different take: I like sports, women's or otherwise, but always root for the better team to win in a sporting way. This is, after all, entertainment. So hope these women put on an great show and may the better team win.
Sports are supposed to be "sports," not "entertainment."
TV brings in loads of money and corrupts and ruins everything it touches.
So, no, I do not care.
The woman's team's behavior everywhere except in the US is called The Ugly American Syndrome.
The solution to the pay disparity is to cut the men’s pay. Or get rid of the men’s team. They aren’t good anyway. Maybe they can tuck their junk, identify as girls, and take over the women’s team.
The best athletes in the US don’t play soccer.
Also, for the Woke Women on the team, how do they justify playing a English sport forced upon its colonies? The sport’s popularity is due to England’s imperialism.
Just how does one motivate the losing team?
The crowd's chant won't likely be USA, USA. More likely the chant will be CTE, CTE.
Football crowds love chants. And they love going wild if a rare goal is scored. They are frustrated to near insanity by the near shots that are misses. And any real excitement stops play for a weird callof "off sides'" Scores of 1-NIL are the norm after mandatory free shots are taken so the NIL-NIL the match ended with does not stand.
I'm sorry. I just can't get up the care for soccer- men's, womyn's- it doesn't matter. I've tried. I get the same feeling I get when I'm in a store with my wife shopping for over 15 minutes. I get this uncontrollable urge to just lay down and go to sleep, right then and there. Cracks my wife up, but it's like a store-induced narcolepsy. Soccer does that to me as well.
I don't get the 'beautiful game' moniker, but if they could bottle it and sell it like Ambien, I'd buy.
Better do a hormone check. It must be the ol' toxic masculinity.
I don't even know the rules of soccer; or hockey for that matter.
As for women's men's sports, they can't beat a HS men's team. Not sure what is being celebrated.
Cavell says sports celebrates the capacity for play, but it doesn't seem to be that. He's thinking of baseball.
I understand women's volleyball, not that I watch it. I understand it. Not sure of the rules there either, if there are any.
Working hard?
Breaking norms?
Having fun?
Winning?
They sound great.
Individually, all of these incidents fall somewhere on the border between trivial and laughable. Taken together, though, they indicate a pattern; their frequency suggests a trend toward the policing of the behavior
I thought it was about Orange Man Bad until I got to ...of the American players.
"I Get No Kick From Women’s Soccer"
by Theodore Dalrymple
68. Someone says to me: ``Shew the children a game.'' I teach them
gaming with dice, and the other says ``I didn't mean that sort of
game.'' Must the exclusion of the game with dice have come before
his mind when he gave me the order?
- Wittgenstein.
Women's dice would be good.
All professional games are gladiator games, not "sports."
Women use smaller dice. They only go up to 4. Tetrahedral.
smaller hands plus math is hard.
Rooting for the USA. I always root for the USA when playing on the world stage, Olympics or World Cup. I only root for other teams as a secondary thing: the USA has to be out of the contest.
Most of all looking for a good game. If the Dutch pull out a well-fought win, I'll respect that. USWMNT is a great team with a depth of talent. We are going to try to watch the game live but don't know if that will work out because toddlers.
I like the clips of the fans at these games. Fun clips of Americans marching into the French stadium in force. Huge parade in the street with fans carrying flags. Love the American Outlaws. When the Yanks Come Marching In. When our kids are older we want to bring them to a World Cup game.
this is SO ridiculous !
NONE of these 'women' are REAL women, they are ALL fake women
REAL women have penises REAL women have Y chromosomes
WHY are these XX imitation allowed on the field?
they can't kick
they can't run
they SUCK
it's Time for people to realize that women's sports belongs to REAL women, women with penises
Pointing out the obvious, any athletic contest that forbids using arms and hands is a bad joke. It is like watching a special Olympics for Thalidomide babies.
The members of this team have kept alive the reputation of the Ugly American. Their losing in an earlier round would have been preferred.
rhhardin said...
I don't even know the rules of soccer; or hockey for that matter.
As for women's men's sports, they can't beat a HS men's team. Not sure what is being celebrated.
What is being celebrated is being the best women's team. Contrary to what some think, men and women are different. Generally, men are bigger, faster, quicker and stronger, and in most sports the women cannot compete with them. That is why women play in a different class so to speak. They compete to be the best in their class.
Of course, you know all this; you're just being an asshole.
The solution to the pay disparity is to follow the NFL model and base player salaries on revenue generation including television contracts. This means that the U.S.W.N.T. should make more money than the the U.S.M.N.T. since they generate more revenue. A team that doesn't even qualify for the World Cup isn't generating money.
On the other hand, the NWSL salaries should be a lot less than MLS salaries, given a huge disparity in attendance figures.
Meanwhile FIFA and CONCACAF have their own wackadoodle prize payouts than complicates everything.
So it's complicated, but not that complicated.
I feel sort of sorry for the anti-soccer people who will never feel the joy of Landon Donovan scoring that goal in South Africa. Or the joy of watching a fun game. There's this huge party going on but you can't feel the fun.
3:23: The kid watching the game and running up the stairs and sliding down yelling USA.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbn3rOPmR9w
I'll put it this way, I hope Rapinoe's hamstring doesn't heal in time so that I can root for the US (if I watch, which is unlikely). I understand that the rest of the team stands during the national anthem with their hands on their hearts and sings along. I'm not going to root against them. This is another example of how the left ruins everything.
The USWNT is immensely talented. Off the field they are individuals that speak up for themselves. On the field the play selflessly as a team. I'm rooting for them.
I'm not going to allow one player that has exhibited zero intellect, to detract from the rest of Team USA players and coaches.
Things are coming into focus though. After the lefts melt down, objecting to the Celebration of the 4th of July, the lefts hatred of USA successes has come out of the shadows.
I saw the Rapinoe clip where she whines that FIFA scheduled the World Cup final on a day in which two other organizations scheduled finals. First, FIFA likely had this on a calendar 2 years ago. Second, FIFA doesn't control the other organizations. Third, these are not overlapping events, with as much as 10 hours between them. The NFL doesn't care that Puppy Bowl is playing against the Super Bowl.
I'm with Henry.
For those who know soccer, the women's game generally seems slow. But the very best game, men or women, I ever saw was a US/Japan final probably 2 cycles ago (Japan won, btw.)
What is being celebrated is being the best women's team.
How about races for 4-year-olds? Would you go for that on TV?
Women in shorts , check.
Garner bruises , check.
As for women's men's sports, they can't beat a HS men's team. Not sure what is being celebrated.
I’d watch that. It would be a Riggs/King battle of all the genders kind of thing. Like the original the jerks would lose.
In the movie Braveheart, the William Wallace character chides the nobles, "You think the people exist to provide you with position. I think your position exists to provide them with freedom." They unfortunately think their position is atop a soapbox.
"What is being celebrated is being the best women's team.
How about races for 4-year-olds? Would you go for that on TV?"
Fine, you want to cancel all women's sports. You don't want women to play sports. You don't want anyone to be fans of women's sports. We hear you.
You're the type of person that would cancel all women's sports in the Olympics. Men can do every sport better. We all know that. It's not news.
Men's figure skating. The men can do technically better jumps: higher, more turns. It's not news to anybody that men are stronger then women. This is obvious. You don't need to criticize women for being women. If you don't want to watch women in the Olympics or playing on sports teams there is a simple solution for you. Don't watch it. This isn't Saudi Arabia where people debate when and if women should play sports.
The U.S., because it's the U.S. and I'm an American. Don't like these women, but I'm loyal. />
The U.S., because it's the U.S. and I'm an American. Don't like these women, but I'm loyal. />
How about “I am rooting for the Netherlands, because, though I feel very much American, I am of Dutch descent and root for them whenever they have a chance on the world stage (cough cough, speed skating)”
Plus can you imagine the scene early on in the movie “Miracle” happening with this bunch of middle America hating oikophobes?
“You do you play for!”
“America sir!"
Riggs/King was fixed
As far as watching Women's soccer, I'd rather watch the racing sausages known as "Brat", "Polish", "Italian", "Hot Dog" and "Chorizo", of the Milwaukee Brewers.
“There's this huge party going on but you can't feel the fun.”
The world is full of parties, can’t go to all of them. I feel bad that you couldn’t enjoy the Stanley Cup Finals deciding game between the Avalanche and the Panthers when John Van Biesbrouck and Patrick Roy nearly pitched a sixty minute head to head sudden death shutout each against a team that had made it to the finals. But then I realize that no sport is for everybody.
You need another option on the poll for "I don't care about sports of ANY kind".
Seriously. I really don't care. I don't care if other people like sports. I won't go out of my way to watch them, think about them one way or the other.
My husband likes to watch an occasional car race (of some sort) so I might be polite and act as if I am not blind and deaf. OR I probably will go outside and read a book. If we are at friend's houses and they are interested it sports, I will politely listen and keep my mouth shut because I don't care about or know much about their sports.
Although...I must admit, lately I am rooting for the sports and sports figures to die. Not literally...figuratively.
If you are a sports figure, good for you. I admire people who excel in physical and mental feats. That doesn't mean that you have anything of importance to say to anyone about things that are OUTSIDE of your area of expertise. You can say it. But just like your sport (art, film, stage play) I have the right to JUST NOT CARE about what you say or who you are.
What part of I don't care, have I not conveyed?
I root for the USA, even though the behavior of these women against Thailand embarrassed this country in front of the world and convinced me that they are a pack of jerks. They whine about pay? Act professional or don’t get paid at all.
"I feel bad that you couldn’t enjoy the Stanley Cup Finals"
LOL My toddlers have a hockey stick. They're in diapers. & they hit a ball around the house with it. In any case, I'd never complain about others enjoying hockey. Why would anyone be unhappy at the joy of fans? As long as they aren't burning down a city after a win, it's all good.
& How many people do you see complaining on and on and on that they hate hockey? Or they hate watching men play hockey? Blah blah blah. If they want to say it once, fine. More then once, it seem like they aren't ok that other people might enjoy it. These people go on and on and on with their complaints.
I've been following the WNST since the beginning. The women's team has always been about a positive, pro-women, pro-USA message. Rapinoe has selfishly decided to indulge her emotions at the expense of an awful lot of goodwill built up over thirty years. Rapinoe is a great soccer player, but a poor role model. If she can't represent the United States with pride, she should resign from the team.
I'll watch the game and root for the US though.
You need a choice that says: "I'm supporting the US women's team despite Rapinoe's selfishness."
You guys still talking about soccer?
Howard said...
Riggs/King was fixed
Do you feel you’ve revealed a big conspiracy to the world with that one?
Anyone but the US team is who I am rooting for. The star player has made it about her anti US stance and not the game. Just for the record though. I would rather watch paint dry than a any soccer game.
This means that the U.S.W.N.T. should make more money than the the U.S.M.N.T. since they generate more revenue.
No they don't.
It’s girls volleyball, mom. You didn’t miss anything
-SJ Tuohy
Nobody said I feel bad that you couldn’t enjoy the Stanley Cup Finals deciding game between the Avalanche and the Panthers when John Van Biesbrouck and Patrick Roy nearly pitched a sixty minute head to head sudden death shutout each against a team that had made it to the finals.
See. This is it. Some people enjoy sports and follow the their teams. That is a perfectly fine thing to do and I don't condemn people for doing so. Other people don't seek enjoyment from watching sports. Don't condemn others for not enjoying what you enjoy.
That sentence, I quoted by Nobody, makes no sense to me and might as well be written in Swahili. I don't know who the Avalanche or Panthers are. I know what those words mean in terms of snow tsunamis and predator felines. I have zero idea who those persons are either.
Probably I would be amazed at the physical skill of doing what ever it is that they do. Admire their dedication, reflexes, physical attributes. Men's or women's sports. I admire their skill in doing things that most people and I for sure could never do.
Men's sports.....'Nice butts" is about all I get when watching football Something to do with the gluteus maximus and sex I think :-D
I COULD if I wanted to pay attention. If there were something that I felt it added to my life I would. I could pretend to understand and actually learn some it, as I did with my first husband who had to watch EVERY freaking football game. I learned to watch and pay attention because that is something that HE loved, so I tried to as well. What you do for love /shrug
I’m supposed to watch the US pick up a fourth star and conclude how oppressed and disrespected US women’s athletes are instead of how good they have it. No thanks...
Apparently wwww deludes herself into thinking that she’s the only person commenting here who knows soccer.
For the record, I don't care that Rapinoe and some other teammates loathe me and other countrymen like me. I care that she went out of her way to say so on a world stage.
Blogger rehajm said...
Howard said...
Riggs/King was fixed
Do you feel you’ve revealed a big conspiracy to the world with that one?
yes, yes I did. Nothing you can say will detract from my great disclosure to the world.
DBQ: Are you rooting for Megan Rapinoe, a daughter of the State of Jefferson XX?
There are two kinds of countries in this world. Countries that like the European kickyball and countries that have put a man on the moon. - David Burge
Dust Bunny Queen- my wife does the same thing for me. At the beginning of every NFL & College Football Season (note the caps) she tries to watch a few games with me. She wants to understand what I love to spend time watching. And yelling about. And getting so worked up about. Why our going-out schedule in the fall has to be arranged around key football games on Saturday nights.
She tries to hang with me every season. And it lasts for a week or two- every year. I love her for trying. And I try to make it up to her by sitting with her while she watches a teenage psychic who has his own show helping celebrities get closure with a dead relative.
Even that is better than watching soccer.
Thank you.
If they’re talking about revulsion at that Nike “just do it” egocentric swagger being the de rigueur of building a personal brand within a narrow-span media focus, I kinda get it.
Are you rooting for Megan Rapinoe, a daughter of the State of Jefferson XX?
Rooting for her to do what?
To be successful at the highest level, athletic and political, thus representing the values of Jefferson.
Howard. What part of I DON'T CARE about sports do you not get?
AllenS, Gspencer,
What do you mean about "ugly American"?
Are they going around building water pumps or something when they're not kicking the ball around?
John Henry
Just putting this out there. From what I've read and allowed myself to hear about Megan Rappinoe and her comments, she seems to be much more impressed with herself than her country. And that's fine. But if the public attitudes we see from her are what we get when she's happy and winning, how venomous do you suppose she'll sound if the US loses today?
It could get very ugly. I'm getting out the popcorn now.
How about that Ellen White of England who does her "goggles" celebration after scoring a goal? That's the white power signal! Why hasn't FIFA cracked down on this? Too busy soliciting bribes?
I'm rooting for SMOD!!
(Soccer Meteor of Death)
John Henry, in the late 1950s or early 1960s a book was published called The Ugly American. Why don't you wiki that and find out what we are talking about? OK?
I’ll be watching the World Series Of Poker. At some point, I’ll listen to John and Suzyn broadcast the Yankees game and then Charlie Steiner and the Dodgers. Rapinoe can go fuck herself.
....and I wouldn’t even watch that.
- Krumhorn
"Even that is better than watching soccer."
What I don't get is the complaining. It's not a law that you must watch sports. I understand not watching sports because other stuff if more interesting. But why the hatred of any sport? Did your parents sign you up for soccer and make you play the game? Did someone force you to watch a bunch of games?
I don't really understand why someone would hate a sport. My husband and I are not huge sports fanatics. We have periods of time we haven't watched sports seasons. But at other times we've followed baseball, basketball, other sports. But once we pay attention we're enthusiastic. Jumping up and down enthusiastic. It's a sport, not a art exhibit. We don't feel the need to be critical all the time. It's ok to have a little fun!
If there wasn’t a men’s team getting paid to play - would the women’s team still believe they were being underpaid?
The only people I've heard talking about this team are the press, and those that cover the press.
I don't really have an interest in soccer, and even less in women's soccer.
Any "professional" sport that can be regularly beaten by a good high school boys team is on life support because of a press life line.
See women's basketball.
I backed Spain.
Hank: “Bobby, I never thought I’d need to tell you this, but I would be a bad parent if I didn’t. Soccer was invented by European ladies to keep them busy while their husbands did the cooking.”
Bobby: “Why do you have to hate what you don’t understand?”
Hank: “I don’t hate you, Bobby.”
Bobby: “I meant soccer.”
Hank: “Oh. Oh, yeah, I hate soccer. Yes.”
"... how do they justify playing a English sport forced upon its colonies? The sport’s popularity is due to England’s imperialism."
That clearly explains Latin America's passion for the game.
"Rooting" for a sports team.
I don't think it counts as "rooting" unless the person is interested enough to watch the game. Or at least watch highlights. But if the individual is so bored and disinterested they've got zero interest? That person does not have the required enthusiasm to be genuinely "rooting" for or against a team.
Megan Rapinoe has a good cry at least once a week.
According to a highly placed source.
wwww....you don't understand. I don't hate soccer. I just don't think anything of soccer. Not good. Not bad. Just nothing. And- for the record, I love sports.
Don't take it personally. It's me, not you.
Normally I'd be watching and rooting for the US, but the political crap of what's-her-name has turned me off. As a result, I don't really care. Probably better for the US to lose so we don't have to listen to it.
Oh yeah. Rapinoe.
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We'd rather hear from the team of under-15-year-old boys who beat them.Ann Coulter added,
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US national soccer team player Ali Krieger has said she would "absolutely not" go to the White House if invited and stood by her teammate Megan Rapinoe in her war of words with President Trump https://cnn.it/2JdZT1N
2:25 AM - 6 Jul 2019
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"The solution to the pay disparity is to follow the NFL model and base player salaries on revenue generation including television contracts. This means that the U.S.W.N.T. should make more money than the the U.S.M.N.T. since they generate more revenue. A team that doesn't even qualify for the World Cup isn't generating money.
On the other hand, the NWSL salaries should be a lot less than MLS salaries, given a huge disparity in attendance figures."
Agree with this comment 100%. We are soccer fans in our household and will be watching both the USWNT and USMNT games today. I will root for the both the USWNT and USMNT, even though I dislike Rapinoe. She is a great soccer player but seems to have a chip on her shoulder about everything. IMHO if she truly thinks the US is such a terrible place, then it would be more appropriate for her to NOT play for the USWNT. Of course, Rapinoe is selfish and wants her cake and to eat it too, so she wants the glory of playing for the USWNT, but still being able to bash Trump and the U.S. when given the chance. The press, of course, eggs her on so instead of not commenting, Rapinoe takes the bait. During one of the WC games, the camera panned to Abby Wambach in the stands, who was singing the National Anthem with her hand on heart. Rapinoe not in the class of someone like Abby Wambach. Don't care much for Alex Morgan either -another, whiny, prima donna.
wwww....you don't understand. I don't hate soccer. I just don't think anything of soccer. Not good. Not bad. Just nothing. And- for the record, I love sports.
No worries! & I don't think anyone should watch or play soccer if they wouldn't enjoy it! We're probably annoyingly enthusiastic about any team when we get into the sport.
AllenS,
I think John Henry knows the reference. And also knows the title is meant to be ironic IIRC.
This is another example of how the left ruins everything.
Yes. But I have grand daughters that play and watch, which is fine.
Fine, you want to cancel all women's sports. You don't want women to play sports. You don't want anyone to be fans of women's sports. We hear you.
The left, which destroyed men's minor sports in college with Title IX lawsuits is feeling sorry for itself.
I disagree with the decision not to accept a White House invitation. It is the office and not the man that matters. Respect the office.
I would have accepted Obama's invitation. And I would have been polite but firm in my insistence that his policies were poor choices for the body politic. I would not have talked about those things first but if he made the mistake of bringing up the subject, I would not have yielded my positions.
And I won't support the USWNT financially. But I hope they win, nonetheless.
Rather like my New England Patriots; they hate us 'cuz they ain't us.
The form of soccer played by these top level women is inferior to the men's game, so I won't be watching. It just isn't interesting to watch. So I won't be rooting for the US team in that way, but I do wish them well and expect that they will defeat the Dutch.
@AllenS, one of the “ugly Americans” in the book comes up with a way to use a bicycle to power irrigation pumps. I suspect John Henry has read the book.
I refuse to get excited about a team of professional athletes that can be beaten by a junior boys’ team. Let the transgendered in! Go trans or go home.
"Yes. But I have grand daughters that play and watch, which is fine."
Michael, he's telling your granddaughters they should not play soccer (or any sports) because they'd never be any good at it.
That's one way to get a citizenship question on a form. Maybe that's what they could do for this Census stuff you guys got going on.
Question 34: Please respond to the following. These questions are being asked to determine federal funding support for amateur sport.
(A) When I watch soccer, I do not cheer for America, because I am not American.
(B) I do not watch soccer: the sport is called football.
(C) I watch soccer, and am a proud American, who wishes more players will take a knee. It's not about the flag, until it is.
(D) I watch football. I don't know why though. Why would I, after Pete Carroll called that pass play?
(E) I watch basketball - wait, the Clippers? Sorry, I'm back to watching curling.
I'm ambivalent. I won't be inconsolable if the American team loses, but I won't actively root against them. They do strike me as self indulgent. Why go so far out of your way to alienate half of your fan base?.....Female soccer is watchable. Girls look cute when they play soccer. It's not gymnastics, but it's not like watching women in the shot put event. I'm not going to watch but, if I did and Netherlands had a lot of cute girls, I might root for the Netherlands.....I hope some of the Dutch girls bear witness to their country's shameful history in Indonesia and take the knee when their national anthem is played.
What is not widely known is that by the time they are 16, most serious female soccer players have had at least one and more likely two or three ACL blow-outs, requiring surgery to enable them even to walk again. Women shouldn't play soccer, their knees aren't built for it. Leave it to some former men, they'd be better anyway.
No preference, sports are fun to play, not watch.
How about:
I like soccer, I typically root for the American teams, BUT
Politicizing every-damned-thing-all-the-time takes the joy out of those same things.
I don't follow it much but these are the pros and cons to me:
Cons - the US team has several very angry lesbians
Pros - the Netherlands hasn't been scored upon yet?
Pros - the odds if you bet on the Netherlands to win are 7-1
So I bet on them but won't watch the game - getting a haircut and running errands. Soccer games are boring.
The Dutch are the more attractive team.
Physically too.
The Dutch team is being very physical in the early game.
It's not the US Women's Soccer Team, it's the Soccer Team of Women from the US.
The policing of the Americans’ celebration is annoying. Maybe not as annoying as some of Rapinoe’s antics, but still. It fits so nicely into European press knee-jerk patronizing anti-American cant that it made me a US supporter for the tournament. Rub their faces in your celebration, ladies.
Michael, he's telling your granddaughters they should not play soccer (or any sports) because they'd never be any good at it.
More leftist self pity. You people need to get on with your life.
My younger grand daughter is now more into swimming. She is going to be very tall. Could play volleyball but likes swimming.
The bitches can go to hell. They spit on our country. It's a fucking disgrace that that dyke cunt wasn't kicked off the team the first time she pulled that traitorous shit. You think it's a coincidence that the most hated team in women's sports just happens to be captained by that big mouth fucking anti-American piece of fucking shit? I hear that if they win they're gonna burn the flag, to show how patriotic they are....
Fuck them. I hope they get blown out, and then the fucking plane crashes on the way back. Fuck them to hell
Have the game on in the background. I only look when the cheering/noise gets elevated. I usually miss the goal, and watch it when its replayed.
You know this drives Europe crazy to be second class to the USA in their sport.
Who put the fly in Fitzgerald’s soup?
No real preference, but a slight inclination towards NL. I tend to cheer for the Dutch because I lived there for a short time and because I like the fans...they kind of remind me of U. of Wisconsin fans - loyal and cheerful.
And, the U.S. Women’s team (and fans) tend a bit towards the “you hit me and I’m a girl!” outrage - crying sexism at every turn of criticism. I have no patience for that. You should be thrilled your hard work and talent got you to this stage. Not whining.
Oh yeah, the Tour de France is also in progress. Another Euro-centric sport.
I watch the recap at the end of the stage.
Soccer and bicycle riding are hard to watch 'real time'
If you enjoy spectator sports check out a women's soccer match. Great atmosphere. Decades of girls playing soccer has built up tremendous fan base. I attended USA v Chile in Paris. Lots of fun.
wwww thinks Michael K's grandchildren are reading the comments on Althouse's blog?
That seems, er, unlikely.
Why does wwww spend time explain her ignorance on the interwebs?
Did anybody else notice?
readering,
Have you watched the U-15 high school team that beat the USWNT?
Because that team would get smoked on the world stage.
wwww thinks Michael K's grandchildren are reading the comments on Althouse's blog?
I'm responding to his response to another poster who hates all women's sports because they aren't as good as men. A commenter started off by basically saying he didn't understand the concept of women's sports at the world level if a men's team could beat them. Someone else said: the point is the best women's team in the world. The argument went back & forth because the other guy thought it was illegitimate for women to compete in sports if they weren't as good as men.
My point: Yes, women are not as strong as men. That's not new information to anyone. In ANY sport, men can do strength better. In figure skating, the men can do higher jumps w/ more turns. This is NOT new information. Most people don't want to ban women competing in the Olympics, because it's about the best in the world for your sex. Now Michael is jumping into the debate. I'm filling him into the debate because he might not want to agree with the earlier commenter, which started further up the thread. But I dunno, maybe he wants to get rid of women in the Olympics or playing in a women's World Cup? This was what the debate was about.
Have you watched the U-15 high school team that beat the USWNT?
OK MEN ON THIS THREAD SAYING YOU ARE SHOCKED, SHOCKED THAT THE AVERAGE MAN IS STRONGER THEN THE AVERAGE WOMAN. Let's lay it out there. Do you want to get rid of all women's sports team? Do you want to banish women in the Olympics?
The USWNT is playing WOMEN. What is hard to understand about that concept? Do you do this nonsense with male swimmers vs. women's swimmers? Male track runners vs female track runners? ANY other sport? If you do, WHY? Are you upset people watch women's figure skating or women's tennis or women's basketball or any other sport with women in it?
& if you just don't like women in any sport, at any level? Fine. So what? What's your point? There's no law you gotta watch women in the Olympics or the World Cup or anything else.
Michael, he's telling your granddaughters they should not play soccer (or any sports) because they'd never be any good at it.
Actually, I thought he was saying that women cannot compete equally with men in many (not all) sports. Doesn't mean you shouldn't play sports. Just that you cannot be on the same level as men in sports.
This is just a biological reality.
Go ahead and play the sports you love. Be the best you can be in the venue that you have. Be aware that NOT all things are equal no matter how much you want them to be.
My daughter played all sorts of sports in school. Softball, volleyball, basketball,golf team, track. Everything except football where she was a cheerleader. She was very good. A talented athlete. Got a very nice scholarship to playing Softball, as the pitcher, for an exclusive and expensive private college in California. She graduated Phi Beta Kappa and Mangna Cum Laude
I went to every single game to watch and cheer, because I am the Mom and this is my Child. Even though I know dick about basketball, I just jumped up and cheered along with the other parents and followed their lead. I encouraged my daughter to do whatever she wanted and if sports was it. Then good for her and I will be there for her.
I'm proud of her achievements but was never delusional to think that she could compete with the boy's athletic teams.... Well, maybe in golf :-) But not in team sports.
That is just reality.
Michael & Birkel:
Are you against the idea of women playing soccer and competing in a world cup? That is the debate. That women should not play soccer because they are women and women are not as strong as men.
Do you believe women or girls should play soccer at any level? Because boys are stronger then girls; men are stronger then women. The best boys team will always beat the best girls team because testosterone. So do you want to get rid of all girls/women's sports?
Allens,
I've read the book, though it's been a while. The "ugly American" of the title was a physically ugly man working for an NGO, or the State Dept or something in southeast Asia.
He figured out how to turn Jeep engines into water pumps for irrigation. Did a lot of good for the country villages. I found him inspirational.
(above from memory and it has been 30-40 years since I read the book)
i thought turning engines into pumps hokey from an engineering standpoint. I did like the sentiment.
My comment was meant to be facetious. As was the title of the novel.
Have you read the book?
John Henry
"Actually, I thought he was saying that women cannot compete equally with men in many (not all) sports. Doesn't mean you shouldn't play sports. Just that you cannot be on the same level as men in sports."
Yeah I agree with that statement. I've said it already several times on this thread. It's ridiculous to expect women to compete with men because they are NOT men. It's ok that women compete against women in the Olympics or in a World Cup. The world cup soccer are the best women's teams in the world competing against each other. If you don't want to watch, that's fine. But what's the point in saying women aren't as strong as men and can't compete on their level? We all know that. Is there another point? Because these are the best WOMEN'S teams.
I think Michael jumped into the argument w/ out knowing what was being argued. He tends to argue w/ me for the sake of argument because I think he projects "standard lefty argument" onto me. I'm not a real person; he projects stuff on me I don't say.
wwww,
You're a fool.
The trans players are going to dominate womyn's soccer.
QED
And I knew precisely why you said the stupid thing about Michael K's grandchildren.
But do go on with the "your words are violence" position.
I preferred the Quiet American, who worked for the OSS which was precursor to the CIA, as it better captures the outsider perspective on naive and ponderous Americans engaged abroad.
Yikes. No score halftime.
Being a Leftist Collectivist means having to hold mutually exclusive ideas in your head, simultaneously, without noticing the inherent contradictions.
See, e.g., wwww.
Just checked the score: halftime 0-0.
It's a nail biter!
Team Orange here loves Trump, not America. Got it.
I am watching the match now. I am pulling for NL. I find this US team to be very unappealing. I think that after Rapinoe's antics at the first match she should have been removed from the starting lineup, kicked-off the team, and sent home. I was involved in youth soccer locally and in my state for over a decade, as a board member at the local and state level, a referee, and a team manager. My wife was the local association administrator for most of that time as well. I can assure you we would never have tolerated such behavior from any of our players. Our members - players and parents and coaches- were expected to be respectful, to obey the laws of the game, and to be good sports in both victory and defeat. And we meant it. On several occasions we had to discipline players, parents, or coaches for being out of line, including permanently banning one parent for going onto the pitch and striking a 13-year old referee. I think US Soccer made a big mistake not dealing with Rapinoe at the start. I don't think we've seen any boorish behavior from any of the other teams. I would think FIFA was not happy about her, it was not in the spirit of the World Cup.
https://beta.washingtonpost.com/sports/2019/06/19/girls-say-connecticuts-transgender-athlete-policy-violates-title-ix-file-federal-complaint/?outputType=amp
Actually, no, it's not an opinion.
It is a recitation of current facts.
And you will love a decision the Left tells you to love when the Leftist judges issue their injunctions.
Grown men will be in your bathroom.
And those of your children too.
Thank a Leftist Collectivist.
Left Bank of the Charles,
Are you confused by the orange jerseys of the Dutch?
They have advanced no opinion of Orange Man Bad.
The teams are well matched.
oh no. blood that's not good.
Use of word leftist ubiquitous on this site. Even on sports post! Dreary.
You can always count on 4-dumb to delete a comment she realizes goes against the party propaganda line.
oh no they're playing short handed while they stitch her up.
Yeah, readering, how dare we recognize the ubiquity of Leftists to control people?
The gall we have!
Even on sports post! Dreary.
yeah they're not watching the game. They don't care about this game at all why don't they go to another thread?
penalty kick?
oh ho!
Don't high kick kids, that's your lesson.
Everyone but the goalie is short-handed.
I just stepped out of my home office to take a break from working. And I turned on the TV to see if I could get the bug and excitement of the women's soccer finals. And of course, as I turned it on, half time was just beginning. But more! It was 0-0. Soccer is always 0-0 in my world. Every time I've tried to watch it over the years, it's 0-0. Forever. And then time runs out. Except that it doesn't. There's a secret extra time that some guy on the field knows about and the rest of the world can just guess at.
I love hockey. I can watch a Stanley Cup playoff game that is 0-0. It's intense, fast, hard-hitting, demanding, and stressful. You don't breathe during much of it and you don't realize you're not breathing. That's how intense it is. The playing surface is enclosed, tight, and there is no getting away from the action.
Soccer? You have a BIG GREEN FIELD with many people running joyously around on the green, kicking the ball over there. Chasing it down and kicking back to the other side, over there. Run. Get the ball! Kick it back...over the large green lawn. Maybe someone will get bored, look away, and miss the ball as it is kicked toward the net. We can only hope.
I gave it a shot. I'm glad it was halftime and 0-0. It cured me before I found myself watching it and wondering why. I'm not sure why it's considered so....sophisticated to love soccer. I will say this in it's favor: it is fun to play. Just not to watch. I mean- who doesn't love running across a nice green field?
Yeah, how dare we talk about the politics of a team that Althouse specifically mentioned?
Do we not know to yield to our inferiors?
well now!
Dalrymple:
I could not help but notice that none of the women were [sic] tattooed. How could the women expect to play at the highest level without tattoos?
Rose Labelle!
Ann, have you ever watched a women's soccer game before? Have you ever posted about soccer before? There is no tag and a quick DDG search of your site turns up nothing relevant.
Are you going to watch this game?
I am asking these questions seriously because I am wondering why you are posting about this particular soccer game and team. I am pretty sure that it is just because of the controversy.
That is not a complaint, I am just pointing it out.
And will tie it to my comment in the Oreo thread:
It's all about the BRAND
The brand in this case is Nike which sponsors the team and whose logo is on their shoes, shorts, shirts, probably underwear. Remember a few years ago when another team member tore off her Jersey and streaked the field in her (Nike logo'ed) sports bra?
https://thenypost.files.wordpress.com/2017/08/bra_brandi1a.jpg?quality=90&strip=all&w=618&h=410&crop=1
Stunts like this and the current faux controversy, are simply ways to get people to watch TV shows that they would not watch otherwise. And, as they watch, see the Nike logo.
It may be that the team members have poor opinions of PDJT. Or it may not be. They may think that kneeling is a good thing, or they may think it is disloyal and wrong and would prefer to stand and sing.
Who knows what they think.
What we do know is that they are getting paid by Nike and will do whatever their employer says to do. "You want me to kneel? Yessir, boss". "You want me to say Fuck Trump? OK, Boss"
If Nike told them to stand up and sing with their hands over their hearts, they would do that. But if they did that, nobody would hear about it and nobody would be watching the game or talking about it.
It's all about the money. Sponsorship, endorsement, promotional, money for the team and individuals. Eyeballs that convert to purchases for Nike.
Everyone associates the disloyalty with the individual, not the brand. The controversy doesn't touch the brand. This is shown by the absence of a single mention of Nike in any other comment. Nobody seems to be having bad thoughts about them.
(The controversy over the shoe is different since that does touch the brand. It may hurt, may help.)
John Henry
I hope these nasty lesbians take a good licking.
Floodgates have opened.
Blogger daskol said...
I preferred the Quiet American, who worked for the OSS which was precursor to the CIA, as it better captures the outsider perspective on naive and ponderous Americans engaged abroad.
Not my favorite Greene, that would be This Gun for Hire or The Third Man, but one of his better books. I read it back in the 80s when I went off on a Graham Greene kick and read everything he had written.
My recollection was that it took place in the mid-50s and Wikipedia just confirmed that. CIA was formed in 1948. Wikipedia also confirms that it was about CIA, not OSS. Alden Pyle is a CIA operative.
I remembered a 2002 movie of the book which I now find starred Michael Caine. I also find that there was a 1958 version starring Audie Murphy.
Now you've gone and made me want to watch both. Not on YouTube but I did find a YouTube program called The CIA and Hollywood with a 1 hour episode discussing the film.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRqEMjZ_svw
John Henry
US up 2-0.
If the US holds on to win, I will be completed.
Langford I hope these nasty lesbians take a good licking
I see what you did there ;-)
I guess he’s picking up the pieces of the earlier OSS and French operations, thanks for the correction. I read a bootleg copy bought on the streets of Ho Chi Minh City where along with some language and tourist guides it was one of the best sellers in the 90s. Copies everywhere. The Michael Caine one is pretty good. Never saw the earlier adaptation.
Megan was crying! I’m crying! The whole country is crying!
If not for the Google Doodle I would have had no idea that this is going on. I’m the Barack Obama of women’s sports.
Graham Greene did not like the U.S. and Americans. He named his protagonist in "The Quiet American" Alden Pyle as an unsubtle reference to the medical condition known as "piles" (hemorrhoids). In other words Pyle -- and, by extension, all Americans -- was a pain in the ass.
USA wins! Hope AA happy Badger star Janelle scored second goal (a beaut).
I don't watch soccer, and have no real interest even if the USA team is playing for a title. However, I also feel the same way about the USA teams in almost all Olympic team sports, too, even though I do have interest in things like basketball. However, I will be hoping the USA wins today, but I won't care much if they don't either.
And I now see they won. Good for them.
You can see my disinterest. At first, I thought the game was going to be played yesterday, and today I thought it would be played much later in the day- I thought maybe it would be played in the evening in France.
Now on to Soldier Field (men against Mexico). Worth rooting for even if a teenage team from brazil could probably beat them. (Brazil also has a final today).
What a terrible game. Its a perfect example of why soccer is so boring to watch. There's a iffy, less than important, foul called on the Netherlands, and the result is a "Free Penalty" Kick that is 90% certain to result in the USA getting a goal. The Referees just gave the USA the game. The USA later scored a goal, but that's only because the Dutch girls had to go on into a desperation offense, which isn't their game.
Its sorta sad, we're going crazy because we beat Holland. Judas Priest, they have 20 million people. Its like picking on Hong Kong or Honduras.
You can sorta see why Women's Soccer is such a minor sport. When Norway, Sweden, and Holland are your major Competition, you got limited appeal.
BTW, I've never seen so many blondes on TV, since that "Blondes have more Fun" hair coloring commercial.
It's too bad. That team was really begging for a comeuppance, but the Dutch just weren't up to it. The arrogance of talking about whether to accept a White House invitation for winning an event that hadn't even started yet ... yes, you're the favorites to win, but you've certainly choked plenty of times before. Win first, talk about celebrations later.
Like Canada set down our US hockey team, they need a set down, too.
Lose, you won’t have to worry about going to the WH.
What’s really interesting is that I had that same convo with my dad when TFRIC was president.
He said the same thing, you go because you respect the office.
Rapinoe is obnoxious. The ugly short hair with the weird colors. The running away - by herself - when she scores a goal. A weird exhibitionist. That she's no better than 1,000 boy HS soccer players doesn't help.
I hope when they go to the White House to celebrate, they do one of those impromptu runs for 'fast food'. Keep it loose and fun.
"I'm responding to his response to another poster who hates all women's sports because they aren't as good as men."
@wwww: You thoroughly misunderstand our @rhhardin if you think that his post had anything to do with him hating anything.
England was robbed and probably would've beat the USA except for the Refs intervening. They have too much power in soccer. Goals are so hard to come by, and giving a penalty kick is almost like giving the team a goal. Its akin to calling pass interference in the end zone, when you have two teams that can barely score 7 points in a game.
Teachers are underpaid and Clark is offering free education.
Shame!
Until the US gets a handle on since I feel like a womym I’m going to play in the female league, Women’s sports is over. HS, JR high, league all done.
Women's World cup is fun to watch, but its seriously inferior to the Men's game. Which is why most serious fans - outside the USA - don't care. The women can't kick the ball very hard or very far. They're slow. The goal keepers can't jump. You never see a woman soccer player dribbling through a crowd to score a goal. You never a "OMG, how did they do that?" score or play. Its all very basic soccer. To serious fans, its like watching the WNBA.
Looking at these votes I am glad that I don't have to depend on a lot of these folks in a firefight. What a sad bunch of folks with no loyalty to their side's team!
I agree the England offsides call that disallowed a goal against USA was a big miss.
The refs later gave England a 'make up call' and granted a penalty kick. Which USA goalie blocked amazingly.
So I'm calling that even.
I hope Trump invites them to the WH. Let Raponie and her "Girlfriend" attack Trump and not attend. It will just make Trump look good.
Teachers are overpaid for the results they produce.
Pointing out the obvious, any athletic contest that forbids using arms and hands is a bad joke. It is like watching a special Olympics for Thalidomide babies.
The two things that put us at the top of the food chain is opposable thumbs and a large brain. Neither of which are involved in soccer.
langford peel,
If you don't get the jokes at least don't publicly admit it.
"Looking at these votes I am glad that I don't have to depend on a lot of these folks in a firefight. What a sad bunch of folks with no loyalty to their side's team!"
Are they really on OUR SIDE?
I watched a documentary of Edwardian film clips from Northern England. It included brief clips of pro soccer. Standard of play seemingly very low hugely popular. They were the best at what they did.
It appears that the Women's team is a bit aggressive and accomplished, running over all the other teams, getting exactly what they want based on their skills. Much like men who are part of the evil patriarchy. Thus the Women's team here is playing the part that is normally played by privileged men.
I enjoy 100 meter dash.
The only thing better than movie posts on Althouse where everyone complains is sports posts on Althouse where everyone complains.
I guess I'm complaining about the complainers.
"I understand women's volleyball, not that I watch it. I understand it. Not sure of the rules there either, if there are any."
Women's Tennis and Volleyball are the best. First, because the girls can look cute and still play well. Secondly, its hard to tell on TV that the product is inferior to the men's. OTOH, women's hockey, basketball, or Hardball BB is rarely shown on TV, because the product is absurdly inferior. Its no accident that's women's soccer is popular in the USA, because the great American public can't tell the difference between good soccer and crap soccer.
I award Known Unknown a goal point.
Rose Lavelle is like a Jane Austen heroine who took up soccer. Enjoy watching her footwork.
Clark,
I don't judge anything but what's written in the comments. If people don't enjoy watching the games, that's fine. But no need to bash people who enjoy the tournament.
Now onto tonight's game!
"Women's World cup is fun to watch, but its seriously inferior to the Men's game. Which is why most serious fans - outside the USA - don't care..."
Precisely. Tactically inferior as well, the ball spends way too much time in the air. Which, I suppose, is because they are not as skilled with the ball at their feet.
Congrats to the team, they proved to be the best in this World Cup.
I admit, I watch women's beach volleyball during the Olympics, but I know I only do it because they are almost all very, very attractive in those outfits. I guess I have a thing for 6'+ tall, athletic women.
A historic day.
It's sort of amusing to scroll through the comments posted when I am doing more important things, like reading a book or doing calculus problems (You should try it, Inga).
4w seems obsessed with my grandchildren. I have no problem with girls and sports. All my daughters played sports. My middle daughter did make one mistake when she wanted to play an intramural sport at UCLA. She went to a women's rugby practice. She said she had never seen so many big lesbians. It took her weeks to get rid of them calling her.
Looks like women's soccer is similar this year.
“ How many people do you see complaining on and on and on that they hate hockey? Or they hate watching men play hockey?”
My comment was “the world’s full of parties, you can’t go to all of them.”
We also don’t have NHL hockey shoved down our throats by the sports networks non stop either, like the women’s slow speed soccer is. Probably because those sports find an audience without having it forced on us, and without us being hectored that we are missing something if we don’t watch.
To hear the networks tell it, these girls are the ’27 Yankees. Um... no. They are probably the best women’s team. World’s tallest midget, so to speak. There are women’s sports I enjoy, golf, curling, figure skating, even speed skating, women’s team sports are sort of like decaf coffee to me. Seems to taste the same maybe, but the thing that brings you back is missing.
“Dave Begley said...
A historic day.”
Why? What happened that will be remembered in three weeks by anybody who wasn’t there?
just another sporting event that should be fun and entertaining, but has been ruined by leftist politics.
Megan Rapinoe proves there is an "I" in team.
Eff her and the rest of 'em.
Same bullshit the leftists pulled at the Winter Olympics. Didn't watch any of that crap, either.
If their intent is to piss of half the country into not watching them, they're doing a great job of it.
Team Orange here loves Trump, not America. Got it.
Yeah. It's our fault you leftist nozzles of douche have to turn everything into a political statement.
Another sporting event ruined by athletes.
Narr
Not my team
@rcocean They are most definitely on our side. Rapinoe is among a number of misinformed athletes - mostly men -who have turned down a WH invitation. She and her teammates have some legitimate gripes about how they are treated by the various soccer federations. I am glad they are fighting for what they think is right. If you saw any of Rapinoe's later news conferences you know that she confirmed her patriotism. She's not the only person who disagrees with Trump and mistakenly treats the Office with disrespect.
For those who poo-poo women's sports and thus feel no need to support the national team, you need to examine yourself a bit. So the girls are slower, weaker and lower in testosterone. They train as hard and they compete as hard as the men and they have a lot better results in their games than the men do. I am a fan of UCONN women's basketball and over the years have come to appreciate how hard the kids work to succeed. Sure that game is also slower than the men's, but the women play as a team which makes it very interesting for someone like me who thinks the men's game is a one-on-one joke.
Incidentally, Rapinoe's "girlfriend" is Sue Bird one of the greatest women's basketball players.
Great day for women's sports. Let's see if it breaks us tv record for soccer match.
Just to clarify: I don't understand soccer- men's or women's; they both are boring and as for the men, apparently played by a bunch of wimps who fall over in a strong breeze. Now I obviously never played the game and I think low scoring men's ice hockey games are as exciting as can be. I played that game! Women's hockey puts me to sleep, but I don't go out of my way to belittle the kids who make the effort to go out there and compete, as many here are doing today.
daskol@10:18AM No flies on me, just my usual morning dump.
It’s amusing some progs say or explain to us when they think we don’t understand things is we don’t get the nuance.
It seems they don’t understand the nuance between respecting the office and the man.
I wonder how many failed Civics in 8th and 11th grade. This is basic knowledge.
"I am a fan of UCONN women's basketball and over the years have come to appreciate how hard the kids work to succeed. Sure that game is also slower than the men's, but the women play as a team"
That's what I like about it. Women play different then men and I appreciate the difference. I like men's sports too. I don't like one more then another. I like them both for different styles of play.
Like Rose Lavelle's footwork. She's petite. She doesn't have the bulk or mass or muscle. She's nimble and quick with the ball in a way I find fun to watch.
KheSanh 0802@12:22PM The side your fighting with wants you to lose the fight. Rapinoe and her ilk are the jihadis infiltrating enemy encampments. Once the shooting starts, they're gonna frag you, murder your mates, and open the gates to the enemy.
How did she confirm her patriotism by spitting on the anthem and the country? She gonna show her appreciation for America by burning the flag next?
Fuck these garbage athletes and their fucking anti-American Democrat party politics.
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