"As late as 7 p.m., military and diplomatic officials were expecting a strike, after intense discussions and debate at the White House among the president’s top national security officials and congressional leaders, according to multiple senior administration officials involved in or briefed on the deliberations. Officials said the president had initially approved attacks on a handful of Iranian targets, like radar and missile batteries. The operation was underway in its early stages when it was called off, a senior administration official said. Planes were in the air and ships were in position, but no missiles had been fired when word came to stand down, the official said."
MSN reports.
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«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 262 of 262Trump turning leftists into warmongering neocons.
I THINK that's what he's doing, but Freder and Inga are just so fucking obtuse that it's impossible to tell what they want, except that they know better and Trump is wrong.
Because that is definitely not what you did when Obama moved the red line in Syria.
Obama didn't 'move' anything in Syria. He ran his mouth and then did nothing while thousands died.
which was because Syria was totally in iran's hands, except for the salafi militias provided by Qatar, the kingdom and turkey,
Inga bitches because Trump didn't attack Iran.
Inga would bitch if Trump did attack Iran.
Seems all the bitch does is bitch.
A $220 million drone isn't worth the retaliation. I'm glad Trump called off the strike. When we have operators in contact with enemy mortars, bring the pain.
Iran should hope that western sensibilities have not "planned" their posterity.
Nobody in Iran is getting any sleep for the next couple of days.
And we didn't have to do a thing to make that happen other than to let a news story out.
This can be kept up for a while, they're paranoid enough as it is.
If you really want to get them scurrying around, release a story about target tracking satellites making passes from on high.
So, what now, Iran?
A $220 million drone isn't worth the retaliation.
It sounds like a $50 toilet seat but I'm sure that includes the ground elements.
The ground segment consists of a Mission Control Element (MCE) and Launch and Recovery Element (LRE), provided by Raytheon. The MCE is used for mission planning, command and control, and image processing and dissemination; an LRE for controlling launch and recovery; and associated ground support equipment.
When I was very young, during contretemps between two young bucks, one would sometimes pull back their right fist as if to launch a sucker punch, start forward but stop and grab the ear lobe and sneer: "Made you flinch [sissy]!" I don't know if this move had a name but it looks like Trump's seen it, too.
Remember, there were four tanker attacks last month and with the recent two, far as I know, no one's been hurt. Proportionality is only adhered to by winners. If the Iranians lit up a lot of AA assets, so much the better.
Saw a report a couple of years ago that the birth rate among the Arab-ish demographic in Iran is far below that of the Persian demographic. This could be pressure on the Mad Mullahs who are from and depend on the support of the first group.
Time is running out....let's not roll...yet.
As QE I used to say, to "enjoy the benefits of time". In those days of lousy hygiene and worse medicine, you never knew when a troublesome king might shuffle off.
I'd like to draw your attention to the curious incident of the Wild Weasel in the night time.
The Global Hawk first flew in 1998. It was designed to replace the U-2. In FY 2013 its unit cost was $131 M. With development that worked out to $223 M. [Thanks Wikipedia.]
https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/iran-may-have-the-s-400-in-all-but-name-what-russia-really-delivered-in-2016-and-why-it-matters
The poor dems/LLR's had all their little Trump is a Warmonger/Hates Brown People talking points teed up and then.....
LOL
The best the party of infanticide and MS13 can come up with is captured perfectly by famed military strategist Inga!!
OUT: Trump will start a war and kill us all!!!
IN: Trump just wont escalate any conflicts darnit!!
Calling off the attack also gives Trump a chance to go over the mullahs' heads and say that he cares more about Iranian lives than the mullahs do. Maybe he can help spark a little civil unrest in Iran.
Sundance at CTH says Trump is engaged in Hostage Rescue. That is quite insightful.
First he is making sure the hostages know they are hostages.
Forestalls almost inevitable Stockholm Syndrome after so long a period of captivity and brain killing.
Short List of hostages (my take)
Americans - everyone Hillary called Deplorable and Irredeemable, North Koreans,
UK Brexiteers, Persians
etc
Being a Field Marshal and all, I would think you might wonder if the NY Times was truthful.
I wasn't relying on the NYT. Trump tweeted that they were "cocked and loaded" before he bothered to ask about potential casualties.
I THINK that's what he's doing, but Freder and Inga are just so fucking obtuse that it's impossible to tell what they want, except that they know better and Trump is wrong.
I don't know how you can interpret anything I wrote, on this or any thread, to mean that I want to attack or go to war with Iran. Trump, however belatedly, made the right decision. My only point in this thread is that Obama had done exactly the same thing (cancelled the attack after everything was "cocked and loaded"), you guys would have been screaming bloody murder.
You probably would have made fun of him too, for not knowing you have to load a gun before you cock it, not after (or that the proper expression is "locked and loaded" although the actual phrase is "load and lock", but John Wayne turned it around because it sounded better).
“My only point in this thread is that Obama had done exactly the same thing (cancelled the attack after everything was "cocked and loaded"), you guys would have been screaming bloody murder.”
Exactly. They don’t tolerate having the tables turned.
Noted Bundy Case Liar Freder: "My only point in this thread is that Obama had done exactly the same thing (cancelled the attack after everything was "cocked and loaded"), you guys would have been screaming bloody murder."
Demonstrably false, again.
Obama was criticized for having publicly announced a very very specific course of action in Syria under specific circumstances and then, when those very circumstances presented themselves, obama backed down.
Not even remotely similar to this situation.
Of course, its no surprise Hoax Dossier/Hoax Collusion Conspiracy Cultist Truther Inga has bought into this latest nonsense.
Like a lot of people I keep underestimating Trump. At first, I thought this was a mistake, but it seems obvious that the Iranian regime wanted a strike from us to make them sympathetic to the international cabal of America haters which includes the American press. They wanted to be the victims, which that cabal would be more than willing to make them if we attacked. Trump denied them that, while still indicating he was willing and able to strike. The Iranians did not get what they wanted, and now it will be harder for them to claim victim status, becuase Trump showed restraint. Now when he does strike, he can say "I tried to be patient, but they gave me no choice. They forced it." That would not work before this restraint was shown. Stable genius.
So now Freder admits that Trump was "broadly correct" about Iran, but somehow he's a "bloody idiot." The Kryptonite-to-decrepit-hag-Inga Syria strike was wrong, and Trump was very lucky that nothing much happened as a result--but strategic geniuses like Obama and Hillary got us into new war after new war, and Trump hasn't done that nor has he issued a "red line" comment despite fondest wishes; has he bragged about how good he is at killing people yet?
That other stuff is just bullshit, like making stupid fun of Obama for "Marine Corpse" and "57 states." That does not at all apply to Obama's "flexibility" comment--another thing religious maniacs like thin-skinned Inga would rather die than mention.
So now Freder admits that Trump was "broadly correct" about Iran, but somehow he's a "bloody idiot."
You need to work on your reading comprehension. I said he was "belatedly" correct. And he is a bloody idiot for not paying attention earlier when his military briefers told him how many people would be killed (or not asking during the planning).
We are truly blessed to have leftists on this board who were actually in the room when all these conversations and decisions were taking place.
You probably would have made fun of him too, for not knowing you have to load a gun before you cock it, not after (or that the proper expression is "locked and loaded" although the actual phrase is "load and lock", but John Wayne turned it around because it sounded better).
You can always tell a lefty pussy when they talk about guns. No fucking idea. How many guns have you ever handled Freder ?
I know you don't own one.
The expression is "Cocked and Locked" as in a Colt 1911 in which you put a round in the chamber, cocking the gun, then lock the safety. I'm sure he got the term mixed with "Lock and Load" another common expression well known to people who actually know about guns.
Democrats and Data, national security data.
Jackson Cosko was sentenced Wednesday to four years in prison. Prosecutors called his offense an “extraordinary” and “vicious” crime where the ex-Democratic aide stole a senator’s data, mined it for blackmail material and then published the home addresses and phone numbers of Republican senators during the 2018 hearings for now-Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh.
Even after the computer administrator was caught in the act and arrested for spying on a senator’s office using his advanced technical skills, Capitol Police didn’t check the USB ports of nearby computers. Six different computers within steps of where he was arrested in the Senate had keylogger devices in them that continued to capture and beam private information over WiFi. They were only exposed through a confession.
Police then got a search warrant on his home, but missed critical evidence because they didn’t check the oven.
Whoops !
Democratic Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee of Texas gave him an unpaid position, apparently without calling Hassan’s office as a reference check. The idea of a 27-year-old man who was working in a specialized role in the upper chamber suddenly taking an unpaid “internship” in the lower chamber didn’t seem to set off red flags for Jackson Lee.
What the heck. Hiring felons is supposed to be good according to the black caucus.
Comes the new ex-CIA Congress critter.
Eight days later, Rep. Abigail Spanberger, a Virginia Democrat, hired Deforest-Davis anyway. Spanberger, a former CIA agent, apparently did not detect Deforest-Davis’s history. Spanberger’s spokesman Connor Joseph did not respond to a request to explain whether the congresswoman’s office called anyone in the Senate to get a job reference and why her central Virginia constituents should trust that her office safeguards their personal data.
Hey, the CIA is brilliant ! No problem.
How many guns have you ever handled Freder ?
So I point out that "cocked and loaded" is incorrect, and yet you accuse me, not Trump, of having no fucking idea.
And you are right I have never heard the expression "cocked and locked". Learn something new every day. I have heard "locked and loaded" and always thought it sounded backwards. So when I googled it it turns out that an M1 was "loaded and locked" but that John Wayne in The Sands of Iwo Jima got it backwards but they left it in because it sounded better (there are some other explanations for the term, including some that have nothing to do with firearms and one that goes back to the naval guns of the 1600's).
But regardless, until today I (and as you point out, either have you) have never heard of the expression "cocked and loaded".
I was thinking about the potential of a strike at Iran last night (unaware of the news) and I had several thoughts.
1. "Why did the mullahs shoot down the drone?" My thought: because they are in big trouble at home and the traditional means of shoring up a declining regime is to incite an attack against it.
2."What would happen if we made a meaningful strike?" My thought: the mullahs would use that as an excuse to escalate their "attacks".
3. "What would we do then?" Escalation feeds escalation and before you know it we are into the Tar Baby mode.
4. "Had anyone had an opportunity to game our strike to see what the fallout might be?" My thought: No, and that argued to me that any move right now would be precipitate. I also thought the calculus of trading Iranian lives for a drone was something that should be carefully considered.
5. "We have plenty of assets in the area, what's the rush; why tip our hand?" : PDT and I came too the same conclusion. A careful, measured approach and the threat of a surprise retaliation makes a lot of sense.
As for Obama's redline. The calculus was completely different. He was threatening action to prevent massive loss of human life in Syria. He failed to follow up ( which I think was the right decision) which made him look like the wimp he was. Trump has said Iran made a "big mistake" - he made no concrete declaration like the "red line" - and my guess is that the result will become apparent in time. I suspect the mullahs are truly disappointed that Trump did not fall into their trap.
Freder learned something today.
Not enough but something. Watch a blooper video some day. See how people often mix words up.
And he is a bloody idiot for not paying attention earlier when his military briefers told him how many people would be killed
Field Marshall Freder,
Leftists have not trusted the US Military for several decades. How many times did you hear that "military intelligence" is an oxymoron at a lefty confab? Now Trump is an idiot for having doubts about military intelligence.
You do not have the faintest clue about what is going on in the White House, the Middle East, much less the world, but you blindly jump up to criticize Trump because Orange Man Bad.
The left's obsession with Trump has rotted what little brainpower they had. You guys miss Bush because he would turn the other cheek when you made another insane accusation. Trump is driving you guys to the insane asylum. Look at how childishly abusive Inga has become.
As usual Michael K, you missed my point. I said you would make fun of Obama if he said or wrote "cocked and loaded". When I pointed out that "cocked and loaded" is not a phrase anyone has heard before you made fun of me for not knowing the phrase "cocked and locked".
Your criticism of me actually underscored my original point.
It sounds like a $50 toilet seat
It might as well be. The point of a drone is that it doesn't put people in harms way. We can afford to lose one and only discuss it in terms of financial costs, perhaps also reputational impact but not about loss of life. One problem with hitting Iran is that they don't have much that is worth that much that is not connected to a life.
"When have the aforesaid Asian nations who have a vital interest in the uninterrupted flow of ME oil to their shores ever taken meaningful action to help ensure that outcome? "
The Philippines, providing the personnel to staff and perform the useful work on the Arab side at least of the Persian/Arabian Gulf.
Well, not everyone can be gloriously martial. They also serve...
I said you would make fun of Obama if he said or wrote "cocked and loaded".
He said, "their guns and religion" but I didn't laugh at that. I did laugh when he did not know how to pronounce corpsman.
Your Trump hate, like Inga's, makes you unfunny. I've laughed at Trump's marriages. I had a slight connection to Ivanka and knew someone close to her. She is as greedy as Marla Maples was but that has nothing to do with how he functions as president.
I did see an interesting thing today. Peggy Noonan had one of her Never Trump columns today, and I read the first 100 comments. I saw only one antiTrump comment. That's new. I think the Democrats are in big trouble unless they can start a war or crash the economy.
“Your Trump hate, like Inga's, makes you unfunny.”
Your Trump Cultism makes you someone who should not be taken seriously. No matter your education, your profession, your societal standing, you are a Cultist and everything you say is tainted by it.
Inga: "Your Trump Cultism makes you someone who should not be taken seriously."
LOL
Go ahead Inga, tell us how you STILL believe 100% in the completely discredited and debunked hoax dossier!!
Inga the cultist STILL believes....AND thinks she should be taken seriously!
Discuss.
But a group of cultists, with sufficient numbers plus education, profession, social standing and etc., are no longer a cult but a civilization, to be taken by the future as a noble expression of human achievement.
Instead of Olmec heads:
http://mexicounexplained.com/olmec-colossal-stone-heads/
There will be Trump images:
https://heavy.com/news/2019/02/trump-float-italy-meaning-photos-videos/
And our descendants will wonder at the mystery and glory of it.
The opinions of our descendants, and history, is contingent, and quite independent of contemporary opinion.
It sounds like a $50 toilet seat
$50 sounds like a lot, but an unmanned toilet seat (UTS), that can be raised or lowered anywhere in the world by a guy sitting in front of a video console in an air-conditioned connex on an airbase in New Mexico, costs a lot more than 50 bucks, believe me.
I think the Democrats are in big trouble unless they can start a war or crash the economy.
Which is why the Field Marshall and the Bedpan Commando are criticizing him for pulling back from attacking Iran. They need something (like the 2008 Franklin Raines crash) to create a crisis that the media can play into a Democrat sweep.
Freder said
You probably would have made fun of him too, for not knowing you have to load a gun before you cock it, not after (or that the proper expression is "locked and loaded" although the actual phrase is "load and lock", but John Wayne turned it around because it sounded better).
Actually, the correct term is "locked and loaded" It originally comes from the M-1 instructions but is applicable to most other semi-automatic guns.
First you have to "lock" the bolt open, then you "load" the magazine or clip.
I would have thought a field marshal would know this.
John Henry
It is easy to make fun of Obama's knowledge of guns.
Remember this picture?
https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/styles/article_small/public/thumbnails/image/2013/02/03/18/barack-obama-fun-getty.jpg
John Henry
Is it too much to ask that we have at least one presidency where we are not more bringing more stability, peace & prosperity to the Middle east? I don't know about ya'll but I am done making the Middle East safe for the world's oil supplies. This is a huge win for us normals and a colossal loss for armchair generals and neo-cons everywhere.
Also giving the hostage active role in own rescue is also good thing for their self appraisal post trauma.
Inga and Freder et al have joined forces with the neo-cons which is the clearest indicator possible that Trump is on the correct path.
Oil has been "The Prize" since the 19-oughts.
Its still the most strategic material on earth.
WWII turned on oil.
Great power strategies turned on oil.
The Cold War was won by manipulation of the petroleum market.
The ME will be fascinating until they run out of it or something better comes along.
MadMan,
Hashtag campaign? Here ya go:
#BringBackOurDrones
Your Trump Cultism makes you someone who should not be taken seriously.<
Poor Inga. She is in mourning for her delusion that Trump would be marched out of the White House in handcuffs.
The lefties had another disappointment with "FitzMas." Remember that ? Fitzgerald did manage to frame Conrad Black with a Chicago jury. The result was the plaintiffs lost everything they had.
These people are so pitiful. Only their ANTIFA allies are really hateful. They are just pitiful.
Fretting about the loss of a military surveillance drone is engaging the sunk cost fallacy. Once it was built and deployed it doesn’t matter what happens to it. Iran shot it down in the hopes of provoking a response that would make the regime sympathetic to its people and the vaunted international community, aka: the UN. Trump’s action is in effect a nope, not on my watch.
So tired of winning.
Actually, the correct term is "locked and loaded" It originally comes from the M-1 instructions but is applicable to most other semi-automatic guns.
Actually, ISTR that different weapons have different manuals of arms. I won't play expert, but I believe that the Springfield 03 operated differently from the Enfield operated differently from the Mauser. Probably with one weapon system or another, any of these terms is correct. The point is, Freder, that to continue the weapons analogies, you shot your bolt. You only have so much ammunition to play with and that's what you spent your credibility on, Trump's word order.
I'm sure that the president lied, bullshitted, or told a story regarding the precise sequence of events. Good. That's the way it should be. He's trying to communicate and the effective communication is the communication that he decides is effective, not necessarily what actually happened.
If he knew all along that the strike would be deadly and that he would not executed for that reason, it nonetheless may have suited his purposes to prepare the strike, to rattle the sabre.
He doesn't have to answer to you as to what his true intentions are. Nobody in their right mind would do that. Did FDR and Churchill get on the telephone to Hitler and say We're coming to Normandy!? Is that the way you think it works?
I would have thought a field marshal would know this.
Poor Freder. We should not tease him so much. He is not vicious like Ritmo and is not as stupid as Inga.
He just seems to not know much. I was that way when I was 8 or so, before I got my first gun.
Lots of us went through Basic Training, and remember some of that. I was Air Force so we used M1 carbines.
I would like to find an M1 Garand for less than $1k. In good shape, of course. Obama blocked the importation of a lot of them from Korea.
Never send a soldier where a bullet can go, or a bullet where an artillery shell can go.
We can afford to send drones over and around Iran for a long long time, and should. As others have mentioned the last thing in the world that's needed is boots on Iranian ground (beyond whatever routine ops are carried out now).
Yah, the whole locked/cocked/loaded thing is silly on all sides. Trump is often imprecise; BFD. In 2012, the provost of my university, a man with an Erdos number of 1 or 2, read a proclamation in which he mangled some words and said, repeatedly, that it was the year "Twentythousand and Twelve."
Narr
Of course Trump often lies too, but they all do that
PDJT went yo military school at about the same time as me. Ny Milatary for him, augusta military academy for me.
AMA was in the jrotc program and the army provided M-1s for drill and training. At 13 I could disassembe and reassemble an m-1 blindfolded. Even got the dreaded "m1 thumb" a few times. It's been almost 60 years since I have done it but I suspect I could dredge asembly and disassembly from memory. Probably would not be fast or pretty.
I expect Trump's training was similar. I wonder how many presidents we've had who could do this. Maybe Kennedy but the Navy didn't have any m1s in the 40s
Even in 67 we drilled with Springfield 03s in boot camp.
Other than firing 20 rounds through a 45 to qualify for E-6, never touched a gun after boot camp.
John Henry
Stupid, stupid, stupid.
Eisenhower probably knew what to do wit an m1
I thought about Bush but I think by his time the m-1 had been phased out. LeMay was a very early adopter of the Armalite m-15 for the AF.
John Henry
Freder: "The United States will defend its forces, interests, and stand with our partners and allies to safeguard global commerce and regional stability."
Granted, he doesn't use the words "red line", but it sure sounds like a red line to me.
That's because you are an idiot. You just quoted boilerplate that's been in every President's speech except for Obama.
Freder: So I point out that "cocked and loaded" is incorrect, and yet you accuse me -
Wait. Does this have any connection to Titleist Gate? Because I'm right there with you on that. Pretty audacious of him to falsely claim he golfs with a Titleist Pro V1x, and everybody can see it's really the Titleist Pro V1.
Inga: Exactly. They don’t tolerate having the tables turned.
There is no point arguing with you. You'll convince yourself water isn't wet in service to whatever fantasy narrative you've cooked up. Why do you come here yell at us anyway? The only thing you convince us of is that Democrats can't be reasoned with and will have to be put down in the end.
I would like to find an M1 Garand for less than $1k. In good shape, of course. Obama blocked the importation of a lot of them from Korea.
Interested in a .303 Lee Enfield (Don't know much about guns as you point out, but I think it is post WWII). If you are, I have one for sale.
My USMA friend had a collection of rifles, including some Mausers, Springfields, an M1, and a Mosin-Nagant. We talked about shooting some day but never got around to it.
In JROTC here (two year mandatory) we drilled with and learned to field-strip and reassemble de-clawed M1s. We also got to see and handle (but never shoot!) the M14(?) and M60. There was a separate Rifle Team for the real shooters, and the Drill Team for the showhorses.
Big news story in the paper today: an epidemic of gun thefts from manly hunting vehicles.
We have very loose carry laws here and the crooks have figured out that trucks and SUVs with hunting/shooting/gun rights stickers and decals are loaded (haha) with nice items.
Too bad guns can't protect themselves.
Narr
Almost all the shooting I have done is .22 plinking, and not much of that
Yes, higher oil prices or an interruption of oil deliveries helps Russia and hurts China.
Hurts more than the tariffs right now? A Iranian war would be short-lived, but a downturn in the US economy will potentially cause the Tariff's to be lifted. At a minimum it changes the dynamic before the G20 in weeks. Xi is about to have to give up NK nukes in exchange for lifting of the tariffs. Meeting is happening. Best to have the facts on the ground changed before then.
Trump didn't take the bait.
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