May 24, 2019

The Guardian changed a headline about "beta-male misogyny" to "nice-guy misogyny."

An hour ago, I wrote a blog post about "Moby's treatment of Natalie Portman is a masterclass in beta-male misogyny." The headline now reads, "Moby's treatment of Natalie Portman is a masterclass in nice-guy misogyny":
In the comments to my post, Fernandistein says:
masterclass in beta-male misogyny

Now it says "masterclass in nice-guy misogyny".

Maybe someone got their tropes about memes mixed up.
Yeah, I wonder what happened. Did someone decide "beta-male" is not politically correct? Beta males are in the down position, but who knew a feminist attack had to be reined in and couldn't disparage a man's masculinity with that particular pejorative? Did "beta male" become taboo just this morning?

I'd like to read the memo on that new rule! I'm thinking right wingers insult men that way, so left wingers need to refrain. Or maybe it's a little too close to homophobia. Whatever... I don't think "nice-guy" can just be swapped in. I don't think Moby presents himself as nice.

I know a lot of men complain that women don't value the "nice guy," and that's a topic for feminist analysis, but I doubt it's what the author of the re-headlined piece thought she was talking about. "Beta male" has been expunged from the article. (Still in the URL though.)

86 comments:

Bay Area Guy said...

I used to be such a sweet, sweet thing
'Til they got a hold of me
I'd open doors for little old ladies
I helped the blind to see

I got no friends 'cause they read the papers
They can't be seen
With me and I'm gettin' real shot down
And I'm feelin' mean

No more mister nice guy
No more mister clean
No more mister nice guy
They say he's sick, he's obscene


Alice Cooper, "No More Mr. Nice Guy" (1973)

Jay Vogt said...

As an alpha-male misophile, I'd just like say that she's stunning! There's really nothing else about this post or the previous one that interests me remotely.

But then again, I'm older that Moby, so perhaps this is creepy.

Laslo Spatula said...

From IMDB on Portman's 1996 film "beautiful Girls":

"Pianist Willie Conway returns to his snowy home town to attend a high school reunion. Willie reunites with his old friends, Tommy "Birdman" Rowland, Michael "Mo" Morris and Paul Kirkwood. Willie finds that two of his old high school buddies have all got problems with their relationships, Tommy, is having a affair with former high school girlfriend Darian Smalls who is now married and Tommy has a girlfriend named Sharon Cassidy and Paul is angry that his former girlfriend Jan broke up with him because he won't commit and has tons of posters of supermodels on his bedroom wall. As Willie waits for his girlfriend Tracey to arrive, Willie finds himself having a crush on Marty, his 13-year old next-door neighbor and Willie, Tommy, Michael and Paul find themselves falling for Andrea, who is also visiting."

Portman is Marty (13), Timothy Hutton is musician Willie (late twenties).

Portman not only saw this movie before, she acted in it.

I am Laslo.

purplepenquin said...

From what I understand, a lot of news outlets now-a-days will release articles with 2-4 slightly different headlines. After seeing which of the headlines gets the most clicks all the headlines are then changed.

Nonapod said...

I can't keep up with the nomenclature. But believe that the term "beta" originated in studies of social animals. Scientists came up with the ranking system for many social animals like wolves and primates. And from that standpoint, a "beta male" is generally the second in command, meaning usually bigger and stronger than all the other males except the alpha. When people use the "beta male" term pejoratively to describe a stereotypically physically smaller and weaker make, they really mean are talking about an "omega" male.

Beta animals often act as second-in-command to the reigning alpha or alphas and will act as new alpha animals if an alpha dies or is otherwise no longer considered an alpha.

Fen said...

Ha. I spent a decade believing women said what they meant, they wanted a nice guy. So it was confusing to watch them hop on the back of a motorcycle with whatever guy slapped them on the ass and treated them as a cock sheath.

So I changed my approach and acted the "bad boy who will excite you as you try to fix him:". Had more sex the following year than the previous 10 combined.

It was an epiphany, but sadly also the beginning of my loss of respect for women. Probably for the best though, as I had erred to far in the other direction, placing them on a pedestal. Hey, remember how vigorously I defended Althouse during the Valenti Breast Drama? Only to have her reward that loyalty with contempt and scorn? Good times.

Don't be a nice guy. Nice guys are not respected by women. Women believe themselves inferior, and if you are sucking up to them, they take it as evidence they are too good for you.

rehajm said...

Guardian readers thought Natalie was with a fish.

tim maguire said...

"Nice guy" is a dating strategy not held in wide respect. Years ago, Dan Savage wrote about how nice guys are really just assholes who think they deserve the cheerleader as a reward for not being dicks and then hate all women when the cheerleader won't give it up for them.

In that sense, I think it's an ok substitute for beta-male.

Yancey Ward said...

Wow. I had forgotten Portman played that role in Beautiful Girls!

tim maguire said...

Fen said...It was an epiphany, but sadly also the beginning of my loss of respect for women

In "Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman," he talks about the best strategy for one-night stands ever invented--treat the woman like dirt. He does it a few times to conform that it works, and then he stops because he couldn't respect himself if he kept it up.

tim maguire said...

Interestingly, in this cropped photo, there is a suggestion that they are both topless.

Robert Cook said...

"Interestingly, in this cropped photo, there is a suggestion that they are both topless."

The uncropped photo is posted a couple of posts down on this blog; Portman is clothed.

Robert Cook said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Henry said...

In my mind, the word "misogyny" is the reach.

"gaucherie" doesn't get the clicks, though.

Actually, thinking about it, the word "masterclass" is even more wrong. And "treatment". I don't like that either.

Narr said...

What about -her- chest hair?

Women, especially pretty women, learn early how easily men are manipulated, deceived, and humiliated, and sensible ones use that knowledge to the advantage of themselves and their offspring, as evolution intends. (I know evolution doesn't really intend anything, OK.)

And yes, the more confidence, swagger, and alpha-male behavior a man exhibits, the more the VAST majority of women will prefer him to his quieter friends (especially those women who will be the first to deny any such thing).

Hard-learned lessons.

Narr
But I've been offered more than I've taken, so no complaints there

readering said...

How did NP not foresee that calling a public figure creepy and inappropriate in an interview (about events two decades ago!) would not work out well?

readering said...

The columnist for the Guardian has to write about something on deadline, so why not this?!?

Virgil Hilts said...

I'm not sure you can categorize someone like Moby as a beta-male. He's too successful. He had to have a lot of drive and assertiveness to get as far as he did. Back when I really liked Moby I remember reading a interview where he described how excited he was (he reached stardom at age of 30) because he had just slept with his first groupie following a concert. He thought it was an important sign that he had finally made it.

JPS said...

A lot of the analysis of nice guys and how women do or do not go for them is third-variable stuff.

Fen: "Nice guys are not respected by women" for being nice.

They may be respected by women for other reasons, but nice does not engender respect. Appreciation or relief, maybe; not respect or attraction.

I used to be one of those nice guys who thought being nice was a weakness. I was also good-looking, socially awkward, and off-putting. Women would come my way, chat a bit, then say, Aaaah - no thanks.

My best friend in those days was a big, handsome guy who exuded relaxed confidence. He was also remarkably nice to women, very gentlemanly. And he had absolutely no problems. (Except his girlfriends developed mild crushes on me, because I had no agenda toward them and could just relax.)

Ann Althouse said...

"From what I understand, a lot of news outlets now-a-days will release articles with 2-4 slightly different headlines. After seeing which of the headlines gets the most clicks all the headlines are then changed."

But the line "a masterclass in beta-male misogyny" appeared in the article (and got changed along with the headline change). And "nice" and "beta" have different meaning. This is not the normal headline change that you are describing. I see that a lot and I know what you mean, but I think something else happened here.

BUMBLE BEE said...

There is a leftist quota system wherein racism, misogyny etc. are graded on a scale for purposes of career advancement. Highest scoring in journalistic category advances. Your middle class Red Guard demand it! Substantiation of charge not required.

Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...

is there a leftist-ish style guide out there to be followed so that these mistakes can be avoided in the future?

traditionalguy said...

The word police has showed up. Run quick, run.

themightypuck said...

Beta Male feels like it is intrinsic and unchangeable. Nice guy implies some activity/perspective on the man's part that he could work on. Leftist orthodoxy is that nothing about a person is intrinsic except those things along the LGBT axis. Intrinsic leads to the incel/mgtow claim that there are males naturally below the attention of attractive women and that women's rights raises this cutoff. Every word is political and a memo was got.

SDaly said...

I heard recently that one of the more famous pick-up artist on the Internet, Roosh, who wholeheartedly endorsed and lived the theory that women are more attracted to me who treat them poorly, has re-embraced Christianity and renounces his past. (Like St. Augustine)

Bay Area Guy said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Bay Area Guy said...

I see two problems currently vexing both Moby and Ms. Portman.

First, there is a problem with semantics. Moby says they were "dating," Ms. Portman says they were not "dating." Both could clarify this by affirming or denying whether Ms. Portman actually sucked his cock in the dorm room. If so, the semantic dispute over "dating" would recede into unimportance.

Second, there is a problem with Moby's alleged status as a "Beta Male." The first headline editor says, "Beta-Male," while the second says "Nice-Guy." Both could clarify this by affirming or denying whether Ms. Portman actually sucked his cock in the dorm room. If so, the semantic dispute over "Beta Male" would recede into unimportance.

I am not Laslo.

Gunner said...

SJW on SJW fighting is hilarious.

walter said...

Virgil Hilts said...he described how excited he was (he reached stardom at age of 30) because he had just slept with his first groupie following a concert. He thought it was an important sign that he had finally made it.
--
If he has one, he should frame a picture of her and hang on wall like a biz's first dollar.

tim maguire said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Fen said...

They may be respected by women for other reasons, but nice does not engender respect.

You are trusted, someone they can confide in. Not like those other guys. I still remember sitting on the couch with a girl I was in love with, comforting her as she relayed how her Dick Boyfriend had been too rough and tore her upper labia. And she had to get it stitched back up. Fucking gut punch.

That may have been the moment I went dark on women.

tim maguire said...

Robert Cook said...
"Interestingly, in this cropped photo, there is a suggestion that they are both topless."

The uncropped photo is posted a couple of posts down on this blog; Portman is clothed.


Yes, I know. And I think it's funny that they cropped the photo to remove his nipples, but in doing so they also removed her shirt.

gilbar said...

remember that one time? when there was that young actress that was famous for
making movies about being a 12 or 13 year old, involved with much older hitmen/pianomen?

And then she stalked that one old rock 'star' dude?
and then bitched about it?

hombre said...

Ridiculous isn’t it? Hollywood soft core porn queen makes a big deal about whether she dated the guy presumably because “dating” him implies that she was a groupie or a celeb fucker or both. (Is there any other likely reason?)

As far as I have seen, his response has been kind and gentlemanly given the circumstances. Yet he is pummeled as a misogynist.

In this world women, particularly feminists, are not required to take responsibility for their behavior, particularly their sexual behavior. So who you gonna believe?

gilbar said...

...says they were not "dating." Both could clarify this by affirming or denying whether Ms. Portman actually sucked his cock in the dorm room. If so, the semantic dispute over "dating" would recede into unimportance.

back in the '90's my 'friend' would always deny that we were (or ever had been) dating. According to her; She wasn't my girlfriend, we weren't dating. She just slept over Every night, and had mail delivered to my place; oh! and had sexual relations with me on a regular basis. What I learned from this is; women are weird.

Howard said...

maybe the logic is a beta is not enuf powerful to be effective mysogynocologist

Unknown said...

No, somebody at The Guardian saw that post and did a quick dash to their "internet operations centre" and reminded the idiots on duty that beta males were some of their core constituency and that beta males didn't like being called beta males.

Correction quietly made.

Same for angry cat ladies and green haired dikes. It's "concerned citizen" and "womyn's studies major".

walter said...

"I know a lot of men complain that women don't value the "nice guy," and that's a topic for feminist analysis"
Yeah..well positioned to sort that out.
https://muckrack.com/arwa-mahdawi/articles

The Vault Dweller said...

Feminists need to abandon using the word misogyny. It automatically turns off probably 70% of their audience. And those that remain already believe in the message they are preaching. Unless of course the whole reason they post the message is to meet a bi-weekly 800 word count article requirement, that will generate a lot of clicks. Then I guess, keep calm and carry on.

mccullough said...

Nobody hates women as much as other women. They are the misogynists.

The Vault Dweller said...

Something tells me that in the gay community, a 34 year old man romantically pursuing an 18 year old man, is a lot more common than a 34 year old straight man, romantically pursuing an 18 year old woman. And if that happens to a gay couple or erstwhile couple, no one accuses anyone of having misandry. Why do some feminists always much it up with their inflammatory language.

The Vault Dweller said...

As far as Beta-male being edited out, I can see that. Beta-male is very frequently used on right-wing websites to insult or make fun of left-wing men or any man that displays effeminate qualities. The other big insult used is cuck, which is short for cuckold. Again it is largely used to slander left-wing men. I can see the editors wanting to change the word choice because them using that slur, while not associating themselves with the right directly, does give support to the right's language. And the left is very instinctively good at managing language.

Gahrie said...

Splooge-stooge didn't fit?

AlbertAnonymous said...

As I said on the earlier thread, they really do a disservice to their argument that he’s a misogynist by referring to him as a “beta-male”. It just reads hypocrisy in neon.

Narr said...

I'm with BAG: BJ vids or we all shut about it.

Narr
Have some respect, people!

rcocean said...

Seems like everyone is misogyny. Aka "hates Women". Really. Why doesn't everyone tell the Left to take the extremist rhetoric and go fuck themselves.

rcocean said...

Moby isn't a beta he's a gamma. That's why he pulled his passive-aggressive "Moby" crap on the right-wing websites.

Narr said...

Shut -up- about it.

No leopards, no NP breastules, nobody gives a damn about chest-hair and my local pretty-good symphony orchestra is featuring music by STYX . . . no Moby AFAIK, thanks for small mercies.

Narr
O tempora! O mores!

rcocean said...

"Feminists need to abandon using the word misogyny."

No, they're leftists and Left-wingers ALWAYS engage in rhetorical overkill. Everyone who opposes them is a "fascist" or a "Racist" or "Just like Hitler" or "Hates Foreigners". And the meek little people on the center-right ALWAYS put up with it. And when someone on the Right tries to give the Left a taste of their own medicine, what happens? The same Center-right types have a fainting spell.

Not an oldster. said...

Moby is a white guy! Who knew? Confused him w/Seal...

Mark said...

"Beta male" and "nice guy" are not interchangeable.

stlcdr said...

"beta male" and "nice guy" are not equiv... oh it's been said already (probably a gazillion times).

Kirk Parker said...

"The other big insult used is cuck, which is short for cuckold. Again it is largely used to slander left-wing men. "

WTF? This is the sort of error a person makes when they don't actually have any experience in a subject area, but are just repeating words they've heard elsewhere w/o understanding their significance.

"Cuck", rather, is used to slander conservatives and wannabe-conservatives who don't actually conserve anything.... Mitt Romney is their patron saint, and a great examplar.

Jupiter said...

"Beta males are in the down position, ..."

No, that's bottom males.

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Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...

She lies and says she's in love with him,
can't find a beta-man
She dreams in colour, she dreams in red,
Can't find a beta-man
Can't find a beta-man

Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...

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Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...

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Nobody said...

Beta males do fine, it’s the gamma males on down who have the problems.

I think that grade inflation in male dominance comes from people who want to be alphas, but when an actual alpha male walks into the room, it’s pretty obvious that he’s not running game.

Nobody said...

Or maybe we need another name for genuine alpha males that distinguishes them from the vast cohort of men who don’t identify as beta, but who are not genuine alphas either. I think alpha males are a lot rarer than “better than betas."

Nobody said...

WTF? This is the sort of error a person makes when they don't actually have any experience in a subject area,

l am taking a shot in the dark here, as I read the comments from the bottom, and saying that Howard is in the house.

Nobody said...

I lose.

Anyway, the actual definition of misogyny is a man who disagrees with radical feminists about women.

Gabriel said...

@Ann:Or maybe it's a little too close to homophobia.

Why? To the people nowadays who talk about beta males, beta males are not necessarily weak men or effeminate men, and very few would be gay men. They are men who are suckers for women, men who believe what women say instead of observing revealed preferences. Plenty of tough guys are betas.

Nobody said...

That may have been the moment I went dark on women.

We can’t expect them to understand us. They don’t really live in the pre-frontal cortex, the way men do, they use it like a pocket calculator, but they mostly just feel stuff in a selfish way, kind of like a poorly trained dog. But we all pretend it isn’t true because they were all born with that magic purse. Plus our moms were women.

Nobody said...

They are men who are suckers for women, men who believe what women say instead of observing revealed preferences.

That’s what I mean, ‘alpha' and ‘beta’ male have become terms of art for people running game, and the original meaning has been lost. Put the average guy who has mastered ‘game’ in the same room as Hugh Jackman, for example, and see if they are both “alphas."

Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...

Moms Mabley.

maybe that's who would name their kid 'Moby'.

-- yowza what a life she had. Who knew about the 'Chitlin Circuit'.

Narr said...

Shorter than Nobody's: a misogynist is a man who disagrees with radical feminists full stop.

Alpha, beta, gamma so far; cucks (short for cuckolds even in the political sense because they like to watch while others get the action); whatever happened to good old all-American sissy?

Women assess men (and of course other women) into grades and bins with the discernment of an 80 year old Front Street cotton classer separating strict-low from strict-low-middling on a gloomy day.

Narr
I know they have a system, but I can't figure it out

Nobody said...

Game works in the same way that cognitive behavioral therapy works. The point of CBT is to use your prefrontal cortex to stay one step ahead of our cerebellum, your more primitive brain, which is easy to do because your cerebellum is incapable of planning, gauging consequences. This is what Fen’s girlfriend couldn’t do. She couldn’t see how hurtful her words were, she just didn’t have the mental capacity to do it. You might as well expect your horse to do calculus as expect a woman to empathize with a man in any deep way.

“My wife doesn’t understand me.” LOL, let me know when somebody’s wife DOES understand them.

Laslo Spatula said...

A quick look on the internet shows:

Natalie Portman: 5′3″ (160 cm),118 pounds (53.5 kg).

Moby: 5ft 7 ¼, approx. 140 pounds.

It's obvious: he was small and unthreatening.

She was eighteen and tiny and in fear of a giant cock.

She is probably over that by now.

But probably still draws the line at Double Anal.

I am Laslo.

walter said...

It's just not lady-like.

Gunner said...

Natalie, 20 years ago you were associated with much worse things than Moby.

Ambrose said...

They look perfect for a remake of "Manhattan"

DavidUW97 said...

Agree that nice, but confident is also a winning strategy. perhaps not as often as confident with an edge, but confidence is necessary.

Chicks dig winners. Always have, always will.


Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...

another in-depth analysis from the LazMeister !

Michael K said...

What in the world is the matter with George Conway ? He must be jealous of the attention his wife receives.

Talk about Beta Male !

wwww said...

The internets seems to have popularized terms like beta, cuck, alpha. Seems like Jr. High school level slang. Humans are not a wolf pack. But there are 2 different types of people in the world: Those women and men who are attracted to stability and those who are attracted to DRAMA in their personal life.

Some people choose stable spouses. Other people choose drama and messy personal lives. Moby is attracted to drama. Portman let herself get drawn into his mess of a book. Better to ignore and keep one's life less dramatic.

"What in the world is the matter with George Conway"
I don't know but another good example of a man who is attracted to drama. His tweets are passive aggressive/aggressive towards his wife and he's making things public that should be between him and his wife. The whole thing is strange. Are they putting on a performance? Or are we seeing a marriage break up? It's uncomfortable.

Narr said...

But a remake of "Manhattan" would take actual talent.

Like some others here, I find her pretty, quite, but I see her equal and better every time I go to the store, or out to eat.

Narr
She's no Ava Gardner

readering said...

I was not a fan of George Conway in the Clinton years, but now I find him delightful. But I agree the marriage from the outside seems untenable.

Nobody said...

I was not a fan of George Conway in the Clinton years

Let me guess, he was critical of your forcible rapist boy king?

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RMc said...

Clean-up in aisle ten!

Bob Boyd said...

Did "beta male" become taboo just this morning?

Yup. Beta males as a group have agreed to vote Democrat and applied for protection.

LGBTQBM

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readering said...

I thought boy king was the name for George W. Bush. Clinton lost his dad while his mom was pregnant, then after four years was cursed with an alcoholic step dad.

FIDO said...

It is very simple: most of the men of the Left would be called 'beta' and just the assumption of that title designates the male Leftists as 'lesser'. Moby is definitely a Lefty. No Enemies on the Left, don't you know.

So they sought a 'soft landing' term for them: 'Nice Guy' misogynists. Since they are men, they can never get anything correct but they don't want to wholesale neuter their 'allies'.

Feminists have very few friends these days. They can't afford to lose even homosexual killing Muslim 'friends'...or especially much nicer 'friends' like Moby.

Fen said...

Who is stupid enough to believe that one can get an atm card that will give you limitless withdrawals of money for free (referring to a spam post that will likely be gone soon)?

I saw a funny TED talk about this kind of thing. Turns out the stupidity is deliberate, designed to weed out folks who would be skeptical, make a fuss and waste time, only to slip off the hook.

So they craft their hook to only snag very dumb or very naive people.