May 29, 2019

"John Cleese was hit with a deluge of criticism online after accusing London of not being an 'English city any more.'"

The Evening Standard reports.

I read that after seeing on Twitter that "John Cleese" was trending.

84 comments:

gahrie said...

Stupid? He's entirely correct.

The England I grew up in and loved began to die the day the Chunnel was opened.

Michael K said...

He's right, of course.

I think it predated the Chunnel. It was Blair's plan to import Pakistan.

Leland said...

Glad to see he is alive. I agree with others that he is correct about London. I'm even thought that was a goal for English progressives.

clint said...

Is "something stupid" the new euphemism for an inconvenient truth?

Amadeus 48 said...

Londonistan, baby. You thought Blade Runner was set in LA? Nah. It was London.

fivewheels said...

He most definitely did not say anything stupid. He gave an opinion, which he framed as merely an opinion, and further gave the opinion that there might be some truth in it.

It's a sign of the intellectual bankruptcy of the left that they truly believe it's self-evidently "stupid" to have any opinion that is not in lock-step with a woke 14-year-old dipshit.

Big Mike said...

I suspect Cleese really is wrong — because the whole damned country isn’t particular English anymore.

Roy Jacobsen said...

Well, what he said wasn't "stupid" in the sense of it being wrong.

It was stupid in that he pointed out something that is completely true, and the outrage about him pointing out the obvious truth was entirely predictable. "He spoke the truth! Burn him!"

Lewis Wetzel said...

So, you self-congratulate when London becomes a less English city, then you condemn people for saying "London isn't an English city anymore"?
I grew up in the city of Minneapolis in the 1970s. It has since changed beyond recognition. Its industrial base has vanished. Its middle class is long gone. there have been influxes of Vietnamese, Hmong, Somalian, and of course central American immigrants. It doesn't seem like a Minnesota city anymore.

n.n said...

The immigration reform, social progress, and planned parenthood triad.

readering said...

Plan to visit next month. The guidebooks I garnered don't say that. Will it change the dress code?

zipity said...


I like to try and imagine how a city in South America or Africa would react if tens or hundreds of thousands of poor, unskilled whites from America poured over their borders and settled down to completely change their existing culture and customs.

I'm sure they would be thrilled with the new "diversity" and welcome them with open arms. And would be thrilled to have their tax dollars spent supporting the new immigrants.

*SNORT*

traditionalguy said...

The new Londonistan dangers arise from a Muslim social order that declares everyone to be equal, provided they are equally submissive to religious legalisms the enforcement of which enslave everyone. Islam is like Marxism with a GOD that approves or disapproves of you for stupid rules. Except the one about the women being the property of the men, which is tempting.

stlcdr said...

To paraphrase the London mayor (sic) “terrorism is the new normal”.

So, Cleese is correct.

Curious George said...

41% of London's population was foreign born. The #1 name for boys is now Muhammad in all it's variations. So it's going to get worse John. And even Brexit won't save England.

Bay Area Guy said...

Saw John Cleese give a talk at college 33 years ago.

He was smart and funny then: he's smart and funny now.

Narr said...

A Toynbeean (ah-hmm) would point out that what is happening in London (and elsewhere) is the inevitable working out of Imperial-Subject relations (my terms). To dominate an area far away is also to bring to the center, sometimes the people, but more often and more profoundly the cultures of the dominated, which don't always or easily stay subordinate or coralled. The Conquerors become the Colonized.

Paris (the one in France) in late 2017 was packed with people of all races, religions, ethnicities, and animosities from the once (and still, on the downlow and when possible) imperial territories.

Narr
I want to see as much of Europe as possible, while it's still Europe

Yancey Ward said...

The city is likely to be majority foreign-born by the middle of the next decade. It is already majority non-Christian. Also, almost 2/3 of the children born in the city have at least one parent who is foreign-born (and vast majority of those have both parents foreign-born. When you compare the demographics of the city with the rest of the UK, the city is definitely outlier.

n.n said...

Tibet is a working model for Western immigration reform.

buwaya said...

"The new Londonistan dangers arise from a Muslim social order that declares everyone to be equal, provided they are equally submissive to religious legalisms the enforcement of which enslave everyone."

This is sort of true, to a point. But it is in its weird way an unrealistic, legalistic ideal.

The actual frictions in these places are, mostly, not due to the religio-legal system.
The real problems are with the cultural baggage Islam draws with it, that is not (usually) explicit in its laws or jurisprudence. This is that predatory attitude, a hostile, opportunistic reflex against all others. This is a thread running through many if not all Muslim subcultures. Some worse than others, and some are totally unaffected.

Lets take that business of spraying acid on people, mainly women, out of jealousy, resentment, or family vengeance. This is most certainly illegal in Islam, no matter the flavor. This is the result of cultural baggage actual Muslim populations bring with them, notably Pakistani Sunnis.

That Rotherham business was also Islamically haram. It certainly isn't legal to addict young infidel girls to drugs and pimp them out. They do not come under the Islamic laws on captives, because they are not legally captives, taken on raids in a land in war (dar ul harb). But it was socially acceptable culturally, within that Pakistani culture, as an opportunistic predatory act on a foreign population.

Real Muslims are not exactly like theoretical ones. With these people you are getting a package where the specifications are not all written out in the documentation.

Jupiter said...

"Mayor of London Sadiq Khan responded in a tweet..."

Ah, those quaint English names.

Caligula said...

The statement is scandalous. Doesn't Cleese know that the meaning of "English" has been redefined?

dreams said...

Multiculturalism destroys a shared heritage which causes all kinds of problems. Just another way for liberals to be wrong, they never learn.

Achilles said...

It will be interesting to see how Nigel Farage will shake things up as prime minister.

Michael K said...

The English are tending to move to the south east, south of Southhampton. The "Doc Martin" TV series is filmed in Port Isaac in Cornwall. A similar town is Port St Ives, also in Cornwall.

My English friends live in Chichester, another small city in Sussex.

These towns are still English and some serve as commuter suburbs of London. The others are tourist attractions or, in the case of Port Isaac, the setting of an enormously popular TV series.

Jeff Brokaw said...

They used to say “the Sun never sets on the British Empire”.

Now you’d have to say it has already set, several years (or decades) ago.

For what, exactly? So the Brits could assuage their imperialist guilt? Guilt is the worst reason to do *anything*.

Michael K said...

With these people you are getting a package where the specifications are not all written out in the documentation.

A worse problem, in my opinion, is the attitude of the police and the judges. They have been overcome by the BS of "Islamophobia"

The American left has demon iced him as "Far Right" when he is merely drawing attention to the Rotherham scandal.

Since Friday, the case of British far-right activist Tommy Robinson has spread across the globe, with the hashtag #FreeTommy gaining traction among his followers from Australia to the U.S.

The right-wing campaigner was arrested and jailed on Friday outside a controversial trial in northern England. Hundreds have since taken to London’s streets, thousands have signed a petition calling for his release, and several high-profile Americans, including actor Roseanne Barr, have tweeted their support for him.

Here’s what you need to know about the case:


The rest is leftist bullshit.

If you want to hear him explain, He addressed the Oxford Union

He was arrested and imprisoned without trial for videoing outside the trial of a Rotherham defendant.

The suspicion is that the authorities expected him to be killed by Muslim prisoners.,

Michael K said...

Autocorrect is an interesting phenomena. Demonized became "Demon iced."

TJM said...

Churchill would weep if he saw modern Londonistan - a metropolis full of surrender monkeys

Ralph L said...

The long time producer of "Midsomer Murders", Brian Truemay, was sacked for saying (paraphrasing) nearly all of his actors were white because nearly all English villagers are white. Then they started pouring in the actors of color. In the other British crime shows, if the main detective isn't female, his boss is.

I think it predated the Chunnel. It was Blair's plan to import Pakistan.

I read recently they deliberately brought in foreigners for the NHS beginning in the 60's. To the tune of over 30% of new doctors and nurses. Looks like the Commonwealth would have objected to the brain drain.

Temujin said...

What John Cleese said was a statement based on the evidence of his senses. He told the truth as is evident in daily life in London, England, and greater Europe. Why do so many have such a hard time facing the fact that entire cultures and histories are being wiped out, not by rampaging invaders, but by invited invaders. Invited by our Elite, for purposes, no one can really be sure.

As has been pointed out, Melanie Phillips great 2007 book, Londonistan foretold this. And that was followed up in greater detail in the 2018 book by Douglas Murray, "The Strange Death of Europe". Read them both and weep.

And as recent (last week) elections in Europe shows, the greater masses, the stupid, the unwashed, the pitiful citizens- do not want this direction. They have started shoving aside their Intellectual & Moral Superiors in Italy, England, Germany, Austria, Greece, and elsewhere throughout Europe. The world is about to change again, but how...I am not sure. Though one thing is for certain: Mohammed is the most popular name in Europe for newborn boys these days.

The Drill SGT said...

gahrie said...
Stupid? He's entirely correct.


A bit more accurate would be:

London is not longer an Anglo-Saxon city anymore.

The Drill SGT said...

Michael K said...
He's right, of course.

I think it predated the Chunnel. It was Blair's plan to import Pakistan.


Why Pakistan? India might have gotten him the same votes, with less strife...

Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...

"We shall never surrender..."--

never say never, Winny

Achilles said...

The Drill SGT said...
Michael K said...
He's right, of course.

I think it predated the Chunnel. It was Blair's plan to import Pakistan.

Why Pakistan? India might have gotten him the same votes, with less strife...


My Masters program has a lot of people in it from India. They are educated and intelligent. It doesn't take them long to see through the globalist's crap.

People from Pakistan not so much.

Angle-Dyne, Samurai Buzzard said...

As the article itself points out, Cleese made the same statement several years ago; I distinctly recall seeing reports of it in several news venues. True then, true now.

Guess it's inevitable that stale outrage is going to get regularly recycled by the "precocious Alzheimer's" sufferers writing all the news these days. (How very "green".)

Angle-Dyne, Samurai Buzzard said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Gahrie said...

And as recent (last week) elections in Europe shows, the greater masses, the stupid, the unwashed, the pitiful citizens- do not want this direction. They have started shoving aside their Intellectual & Moral Superiors in Italy, England, Germany, Austria, Greece, and elsewhere throughout Europe

To be honest I have expected mass anti-immigrant violence throughout Europe long before now.

Achilles said...

Gahrie said...


To be honest I have expected mass anti-immigrant violence throughout Europe long before now.


The immigrants are a result. A side issue. They are just reacting to the world and trying to do better for themselves.

Violence towards them is misdirected.

The violence needs to be directed at the people who are trying to replace populations of countries with poor uneducated foreigners to harvest votes and drive down wages.

William said...

You can bitch about Yank tourists, but God help you if you ever let slip an unkind word about immigrants.....British cricket umpires were notoriously undemonstrative in affection toward their children, especially the sons. That's why it was said that the son never sits on the British umpire.

Angle-Dyne, Samurai Buzzard said...

Ralph L: The long time producer of "Midsomer Murders", Brian Truemay, was sacked for saying (paraphrasing) nearly all of his actors were white because nearly all English villagers are white. Then they started pouring in the actors of color. In the other British crime shows, if the main detective isn't female, his boss is.

The funny thing is, those series are probably popular precisely because they're "hideously white" nostalgia pieces for a vanishing Britain. Despite the current, comically ham-handed efforts in so many programs to diversify and "presentise" the past, the writers and producers of BBC et al are no doubt perfectly well aware of what the audience (including the hordes of American PBS-loving catladies) really wants in its "britbox".

Dave Begley said...

He's a native Englishman. He has the right to his opinion. What made England, England, is now gone. How can that be disputed?

Dave Begley said...

And now the Left is doing the same thing here. Think "Camp of the Saints."

How does it help American voters if the countries of Guatemala and Honduras move here?

And note well that Costa Ricans aren't leaving.

mockturtle said...

Despite the current, comically ham-handed efforts in so many programs to diversify and "presentise" the past

This was painfully apparent in the recent series, Les Miserables. Maybe if one had never read the novel one might just imagine Javert was black. But I doubt it.

Daniel Jackson said...

Mister Monty Python made a comment that is socially offensive, but spot on? I'm shocked! This is serious business, Mister. Humo(u)r is no longer allowed and satire (even when correct) is too hurtful and, like dissent, must be stopped.

You go, John Boy; you go.

mockturtle said...

Mayor London Sadiq Khan decried Cleese’s claim in a statement to the Daily Mail, saying,”These comments make John Cleese sound like he’s in character as Basil Fawlty.”

“Londoners know that our diversity is our greatest strength,” Khan added. “We are proudly the English capital, a European city and a global hub.”
[from TDC]

I keep hearing how 'diversity is our greatest strength' while it is really a house divided. The powers-that-be know that a divided nation isn't likely to be a real threat to their position. To me, the real division, however, is not ethnic but political. I'd rather live among Conservatives of any race, color or creed than among the yammering Progressive types who want to bring our country down.

reader said...

He’s not dead yet

Achilles said...

Dave Begley said...
And now the Left is doing the same thing here. Think "Camp of the Saints."

How does it help American voters if the countries of Guatemala and Honduras move here?


Democrats need voters.

The COC needs lower wages.

Nobody on that side cares about American voters. Not even the people who vote for democrats.

The entire democrat party from top to bottom is driven by hate.

Angle-Dyne, Samurai Buzzard said...

Achilles: The immigrants are a result. A side issue. They are just reacting to the world and trying to do better for themselves.

Violence towards them is misdirected.

The violence needs to be directed at the people who are trying to replace populations of countries with poor uneducated foreigners to harvest votes and drive down wages.


If you hanged all the ruling-caste perps from lampposts tomorrow, the problems consequent to contemporary mass immigration into incompatible cultures would still be there and would keep on getting worse. That there is an ultimate cause to a problem doesn't mean that the proximate manifestation of it isn't real, and isn't a bugger. (Recognizing that is not "advocating violence" against foreigners, poor and uneducated or otherwise.)

It's entirely irrelevant that the newcomers "are just reacting to the world and trying to do better for themselves". No part of the problem has to do with "natives" not understanding its ultimate cause, or not understanding that the newcomers are for the most part decent people who just want a better life.

Known Unknown said...

Just think if he were dead, he couldn't say stupid things.

Patrick said...

Call me Loretta.

Just wait'll thet see that one...

narciso said...

say it was poorly translated from hungarian,

Achilles said...

Angle-Dyne, Samurai Buzzard said...


If you hanged all the ruling-caste perps from lampposts tomorrow, the problems consequent to contemporary mass immigration into incompatible cultures would still be there and would keep on getting worse.

I am not saying let them stay. They need to go to their homes.

I am just saying they are not the root problem just like the COC cuck wing of the republican party and the democrat party and the media are not the root problem.

The root problem are the wealthy globalists that are funding and directing these efforts. They have completely corrupted numerous institutions. Anything we do or build will just be corrupted by their money and wealth in the long run. If we burn the FBI to the ground they will just install their minions in the next manifestation.

NorthOfTheOneOhOne said...

The Drill SGT said...

Why Pakistan? India might have gotten him the same votes, with less strife...

The vast majority of Indians who emigrate to the UK are higher caste than what you see in the US. They tend to be middle or upper middle class, better educated, professional, etc. They're not at all inclined to become reliant on the Labour teat like the largely working class Pakistanis are.

PM said...

The number of Pakistanis and Indians in London is astonishing. I mean, during the Raj, it only took about 20,000 Brits to rule a land of 300 million Indians.

readering said...

Have bought his memoir. Expect he does not pull punches.

stevew said...

Just the latest bunch to be offended not so much by the facts, but by the gall of the person to say them out loud.

sean said...

I don't know why everyone is interpreting this statement racially. Cleese didn't mention racial issues. It's like saying that New York isn't really part of America, which many have said over the years, to which we New Yorkers respond, "So much the worse for you." Recall the famous Saul Steinberg New Yorker cover.

Michael K said...

The vast majority of Indians who emigrate to the UK are higher caste than what you see in the US

Have you looked at the mean incomes of Indians who come here ? Highest income by ethnic group.

Fernandistein said...

Isn't John Cleese's mother a hamster? And she's probably a "Syrian hamster", which is the PC term for a Muslim hamster. So he doesn't have much to complain about.

Humperdink said...

The sun never sets on the British Empire, so the saying goes. Referring, of course, to the vast empire of days, now gone by.

Who would have thought London, and by extension England, is now being colonized.

The Godfather said...

I'm sure that when my Irish and German ancestors came to the US some of my Yankee ancestors who'd been here for 200 years thought, There goes the neighborhood! But it wasn't so. The immigrants assimilated and became Americans in a generation. I don't know if that's possible in England. The US was founded, as Lincoln put it, on the basis of a "proposition"; if you embraced the proposition, and you or your children learned the language, you became Americans, as American as those who's ancestors had been here for centuries. England has lots of history, lots of traditions, but I don't know if an immigrant can "become English" the way my ancestors became Americans. And, more troubling, I don't know if we in America still have the commitment to the "proposition" to assure that foreigners who come here "become Americans".

CWJ said...


"Have bought his memoir. Expect he does not pull punches."

Readering, Which one? The one I read stops when he joins the Pythons.

Oso Negro said...

The British were ruined by the World Wars of the past century. Their culture was broken. They traded a proud heritage for cheap kebabs and curry. Their ruling class is even more ghastly than ours. I suspect Brexit is gonna happen one way or another. The heritage people have had quite enough.

Narr said...

I don't buy James Webb's broadest theses entirely, but I think he's on to something in positing that the USofA's cultural substrate is not British-English but Scots-Irish, so more libertarian and successful in assimilating with and to other groups than the more elitist Anglos.

In Europe, assimilation isn't really a serious goal of either natives or newcomers for the most part, so sooner or later the newcomers will go too far* and the Europeans will revert to type, and there will be more History.

Narr
*Reports of self-appointed Sharia-police trying to set up Sharia Zones in Wuppertal

readering said...

CWJ: Same one: 'So, Anyway . . .' Hope he writes more. Still think Fawlty Towers best sitcom of all time.

rcocean said...

"I'm sure that when my Irish and German ancestors came to the US some of my Yankee ancestors who'd been here for 200 years thought, There goes the neighborhood! But it wasn't so."

Dumbest statement ever. More of Boomer "magic dirt theory". Yeah, lets invite 40 million Iranians, Zulus, and Bangladeshi's here, and they'll all become Americans because of "Magic Dirt". In case, you haven't noticed, voting patterns are based on Demographics. If Jews, Swedes, and Germans in the USA had "assimilated" then Hispanics, Swedes and Jews would vote like their native American counterparts. They don't. The USA Is not a "proposition". Its a country - or used to be.

rcocean said...

Who cares if John Cleese gets mobbed by some SJW? *Cleese* is a SJW. He didn't do a single thing to PREVENT London from becoming non-English. In fact, he thought everyone who WAS trying to prevent it, was a nasty racist/bigot/homophobe.

William said...

I lived in England many years ago. The class system then was rigid and had barbed borders. Maybe a bit of racism will help to blur those borders. Probably not. The Brits enjoy their snobbery far more than their racism. It defines who they are.

Narr said...

rcocean@705: Please untangle the second paragraph for me, after Demographics.

I don't know whether I agree or not, because I can't figure it out. Thanks.

Narr
Sincerely!

Limited Perspective said...

Screw John Cleese. He moved to a nice quite nothing Caribbean Island. He doesn't give a damn about his country. Just another El Salvador victim who, rather than work to reform his country runs away like a ballerina with rip in her tights. Same to all the middle class wimps who left California to the wolves.

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The Godfather said...

Hey rocean (7:05 pm), can you read? What I said (4:52 pm) about my foreign-born ancestors becoming Americans is true. It is also true that many other immigrant groups came to the US, assimilated, and became Americans. I didn't say that "40 million Iranians, Zulus, and Bangladeshi's [sic]" could/would assimilate. Maybe they could, maybe they couldn't, but we don't seem to have been doing too well on the assimilation business lately.

As for this country being founded on a "proposition" -- you ever hear of a guy named Lincoln? If you haven't, you don't seem to have assimilated real well yourself.

Ralph L said...

Cleese obviously needs some Dr. Unity to get with the Diversity programme.

MountainMan said...

Cleese is correct. My wife and I were staying at the Grosvenor House last August and decided to take a walk down Oxford Street and Bond Street one evening. We might as well have been in Cairo, Baghdad, Damascus, or Islamabad. Never saw an Englishman.

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Michael K said...

Same to all the middle class wimps who left California to the wolves.

When outnumbered by wolves, it is acceptable to retreat. Arizona is closer to my general sentiments anyway. I don't sail anymore.

Limited Perspective said...

"When outnumbered by wolves, it is acceptable to retreat. Arizona is closer to my general sentiments anyway. I don't sail anymore."

Don't blame you a bit Michael. I'm eyeing the good folks of Arkansas which was a great experience in my travels. Still, I'm here in California and miss my old Republican party, and even the sane Democrats from my youth, when the State was well managed.

GRW3 said...

I’ve been going to the UK on the average of two nice a year since 1983. In that 36 years, I’ve seen the city change a lot. I used to feel safe in a London, not so much any more. I used to take the tube, not any more. i still like going to London, just not as much as I used to.

PhilD said...

"I think it predated the Chunnel. It was Blair's plan to import Pakistan."

Enoch Powell's "Rivers of blood" speech is dated 20 April 1968.

Btw, much as I consider the EU to have become a suicide pact it isn't the EU that is responsible for this situation. The British did that to themselves. I'm all for the British to have their Brexit (mainly because I want the present day EU to be terminated with prejudice) but unless they have an 'exit' of their own present day culture it wont help them. Of course, the same goes for my own country and, dare I say it, the USA.

Angle-Dyne, Samurai Buzzard said...

rcocean: Dumbest statement ever. More of Boomer "magic dirt theory"[...]The USA Is not a "proposition". Its a country - or used to be.

There's no such thing as a "proposition nation", but as national mythos, it can work pretty well under a certain limited set of conditions - i.e., a confident dominant culture taking in people who come from the same general civilizational roots. As you point out, the earlier newcomers didn't assimilate to the existing culture to the degree the myth proclaims (the "neighborhood" did, as a matter of fact, go), but it all worked well enough and "close enough" to make a country.

Until it didn't, when the great and good among us decided that obliterating the "mystic chords of memory" and replacing them entirely with a universalist, resentment-based, flimsy "nation of immigrants" mythos was a swell idea.

The Godfather: As for this country being founded on a "proposition" -- you ever hear of a guy named Lincoln? If you haven't, you don't seem to have assimilated real well yourself.

It's great rhetoric, but reading Lincoln it's also obvious that he understood that Americans were bound together by a deeper shared history and culture. That history and culture created the propositions, not the other way 'round, and those propositions mean anything or nothing once those bonds are gone.

TJM said...

Jeesh, criticized for pointing out the obvious

The Godfather said...

@Angel-Dyne: Lincoln was a deeper thinker than anyone commenting here, myself included. In his debates with Douglas, he refuted Douglas’s argument that the rights referred to in the Declaration belonged only to the English settlers and their descendants — if that were so, Lincoln said to his audience, that would mean not only that Negroes would have no rights, neither would “you Germans” (Illinois had a large German immigrant and second-generation population). 19th Century immigrants WANTED to be accepted as Americans, and wise Americans like Lincoln wanted to welcome them. I criticize immigrants who want to live here without becoming Americans, and, with Lincoln, I criticize Americans who say that immigrants can’t become Americans if they don’t come from the “right” homelands.

funsize said...

Love your analysis, buwaya.