April 3, 2019

"I’m reluctant to comment on another person’s faith, but I would say it is hard to look at this president’s actions and believe that they’re the actions of somebody who believes in God."

"I just don’t understand how you can be as worshipful of your own self as he is and be prepared to humble yourself before God. I’ve never seen him humble himself before anyone. And the exaltation of yourself, especially a self that’s about wealth and power, could not be more at odds with at least my understanding of the teachings of the Christian faith."

Said Buttigieg, giving us an interesting look at his idea of reluctance.

I'm not reluctant to ask: Is Buttigieg's commentary humble or arrogant? Does it seem like something that would be said by somebody who believes in God? And would you like to rate everything any politician does or says according to how closely it accords with a belief in God or your understanding of whatever religion the politician professes?

I'll suggest a scale from 1 to 5:

1 — That's the sort of thing that you'd probably only do/say if you believed in God/the religion you profess.

2 — That's something that might arise from a belief in God/religion or from ethics or good motivations of a non-religious sort.

3 — That's something that you could do/say without obvious conflict with a belief in God/religion.

4 — If you claim to believe in God or follow the Christian religion (or whatever other religion), then you ought to know that you are doing something hypocritical and wrong.

5— If you claim to believe in God or follow the Christian religion (or whatever other religion), but you do this, you're just lying to us and perhaps also to yourself.

347 comments:

1 – 200 of 347   Newer›   Newest»
MadisonMan said...

The old "I'm reluctant to do this but I'm gonna go ahead and do it anyway" phrasing.

gahrie said...

How humble is/were Obama? The Clintons?

Humble people don't run for president.

mikee said...

This is the very definition of casting the first stone, when you aren't without sin yourself.

gahrie said...

And the exaltation of yourself, especially a self that’s about wealth and power, could not be more at odds with at least my understanding of the teachings of the Christian faith."

I wonder if he understands that Christian teachings oppose homosexual behavior and single sex marriage?

Phidippus said...

Speaking as a nonbeliever who grew up in the RC Church, I can say without fear of contradiction that (4) is the correct answer, at least as far as Christianity is concerned.

Let's not forget about what Saint Peter said (repeatedly) on that fateful night in the garden (annual remembrance coming soon to a church near you). He got to be the first pope, just the same.

The promise of Christianity is forgiveness to sinners, who acknowledge their sinfulness. Petey hasn't quite gotten to that point yet, it seems.

BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

Leftwingers place themselves above it all, and therefore feel they are entitled to judge all Christians as being "good enough or not."

Yeah - and do tell us about how godly The Clintons and the Obama's really are.

Robert Cook said...

Of course Trump has no belief in God. If he professes to, he's lying.

Rob said...

I have a number of woke friends who accepted Obama's profession of Christianity as political window dressing, believing in their hearts that he was too intelligent to buy into the whole God thing. I'm having the opposite reaction to Pete Buttigieg's comment: you mean he really believes in God? What a disappointment.

robother said...

SJW after Obergefell: All your religion are belong to us.

Robert Cook said...

Not that there's anything wrong with having no believe in a God. I'm just one of many people who, rationally, do not.

Quaestor said...

4 — If you claim to believe in God or follow the Christian religion (or whatever other religion), then you ought to know that you are doing something hypocritical and wrong.

I was about to list the Biblical injunctions against homosexuality, but I see that's unnecessary.

Robert Cook said...

"I wonder if he understands that Christian teachings oppose homosexual behavior and single sex marriage?"

Do they? The Old Testament aside, did Jesus ever speak on the subject of homosexuality?

Robert Cook said...

"Yeah - and do tell us about how godly The Clintons and the Obama's really are."

They're not.

Howard said...

Mayor Pete smells blood and goes for the jugular. Deplorables hardest hit. This isn't about G_d, it's 100% political calculation

madAsHell said...

Is number 5 the same as psychological projection??

I dunno. An openly gay man taking the religious high ground. I don't think that's gonna put butts in seats in Bettendorf.

The homosexual wants to draw battle lines with the Bible. What happened to inclusive-ness, and diversity? Intersectionality?? Yeah.....it's not a good look for him.

hombre said...

His comment is neither “humble” nor “arrogant”, it’s political theater - another of the ongoing attempts of godless, relativist lefties to shame Christians to roll over in the face of Democrat insanity.

It’s probably also an effort to get Christian voters to offset his own sinful lifestyle against Trump’s unChristian behavior.

madAsHell said...

Of course Trump has no belief in God.

You don't have any kids!!

BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

OK - why is it *wink and nod* if we all know Obama is a bogus Christian, but Trump doesn't get the same ?

gspencer said...

"I'm reluctant to comment on another person's faith"

Then don't!

Romans 3:23, "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God"

No one - no one - has the right to pick up the first stone.

gahrie said...

"I wonder if he understands that Christian teachings oppose homosexual behavior and single sex marriage?"

Do they? The Old Testament aside, did Jesus ever speak on the subject of homosexuality?


First of all, how do you set the Old Testament aside when discussing Christianity? Secondly, Jesus condemned sexual immorality when homosexual acts were considered sinful and immoral.

Achilles said...

So Buttigieg is a hypocrite.

JaimeRoberto said...

I could say the same about Obama or any other politician for that matter.

Quaestor said...

Cookie wrote: Of course [sic] Trump has no belief in God. If he professes to, he's lying.

Followed by: Not that there's anything wrong with having no believe [sic] in a God. I'm just one of many people who, rationally, do not.

I hereby declare Robert Cook to be a liar. He professes "no believe", but using the Cook Mind-Reading Machine™, I know he is a believer and therefore has lied to the commentariat when he declared himself an atheist.

traditionalguy said...

His Marxist tactics are exposed. He is calling good evil and saying evil is a good.The gospel of Paul rediscovered and explained by Calvin values born again free men justified by Faith alone. The religious piety scam enslaves the self hating sinners like selling mar an to opioid addicts.

This petty guilt pusher Buttigeig is a slimy snake who hates all strong Christians who live as victorious free men like President Trump.

Bob Boyd said...

What difference at this point does it make?

Henry said...

He sees the beam in Trump's eye and neglects the mote in his own.

(inversion intentional)

Larry J said...

From time to time during his administration, some people accused Obama of being a devout Muslim. I replied that I didn't believe it. To be devout in any religion is to believe in something greater than yourself, a characteristic Obama never once demonstrated. So no, I don't think he was a devout Muslim, Christian, or any other religion. If he worships anything, he worships himself.

As for Trump, humility isn't his strong suit but that in and of itself doesn't mean he has no religious belief. That's something between him and God.

Kevin said...

Of course Trump has no belief in God. If he professes to, he's lying.

But if he professes not to, he's also lying and thus does believe.

So you're left believing of Trump only what he wants you to believe.

Which is very, very good for Trump.

Achilles said...

gahrie said...

I wonder if he understands that Christian teachings oppose homosexual behavior and single sex marriage?

You might find something in the old testament.

There is nothing in the new testament. I don't think Jesus cared at all.

I will be glad when this hatred disappears from the world. You people need to let god do the judging on that.

traditionalguy said...

Auto correct replaced Narcan.

Kevin said...

Any serious Democrat knows the path to victory requires separation between Trump and the Christian right.

Unfortunately for Dems they just went out and passed their "kill your baby whenever you like" law.

And then they celebrated like they'd won the Super Bowl.

So yes, keep quoting scripture and see what Trump's tweets do with that.

DarkHelmet said...

Apparently Bootgig isn't reluctant to comment on another's faith since he just did it without any particular need.

Everybody knows Trump is not a Christian exemplar. Nobody cares. The Dems would hate him just as much if he were. Evidence: Pence.

The Dems hate everybody who stands between them and power. It's who they are.

narciso said...

well paul was particular on it, in 1 Romans, as part of a catalogue of other sins,

gilbar said...

I’m reluctant to comment on another person’s faith...

I’m reluctant to judge another's morality, but I would say it is hard to look at this mayor’s actions and believe that they’re the actions of somebody who believes in God.

gahrie said...

There is nothing in the new testament. I don't think Jesus cared at all.

Jesus condemned sexual immorality. At the time homosexuality was considered sexual immorality.

Bushman of the Kohlrabi said...

I voted for President of the United States, not Pope.

And what were/are the options? Morally superior hypocrites who advocate for post-birth abortion?

Do the religious AGW zealots on the left reject their jet-setting / celebrity cruising heroes as they traverse the globe? Hardly.

Buttigieg seems better versed in bad faith arguments than he is in Christianity.

When it comes to Trump, I'm just living in the world as it is.


mockturtle said...

So his understanding of the Christian faith means it's OK for men to fuck each other in the ass? Maybe his understanding needs a little help.

gilbar said...

sorry, forgot to vote: number 5. It's ALL Bullshit

rhhardin said...

Charity for Augustine was thinking the best of somebody rather than the worst.

That's how it came to be soul-saving.

Centuries later it meant money.

Rick said...

I'm so old I remember when Democrats / the left pretended to be offended by those applying religious standards in politics.

FullMoon said...

Is Buttigieg a believer? Is he saying he is better than Trump because he is more devout. Or is he better than rump because he does not pretend to believe at all?

hombre said...

Robert Cook said...
‘"I wonder if he understands that Christian teachings oppose homosexual behavior and single sex marriage?"

Do they? The Old Testament aside, did Jesus ever speak on the subject of homosexuality?’

Cook being cute in the manner of liberal, cafeteria Christians. Here’s a question: Are Christian teachings limited to the spoken words of Jesus? Here’s an answer: No.

Michael K said...

"I wonder if he understands that Christian teachings oppose homosexual behavior and single sex marriage?"

There was something about Sodom, but that was Old Testament.

Buttgig learned his religion at his Marxist father's knee,.

Earnest Prole said...

Mr. Mote, meet Mr. Beam: I'm sure you two will have plenty to talk about.

Achilles said...

Robert Cook said...
Not that there's anything wrong with having no believe in a God. I'm just one of many people who, rationally, do not.

I love the claim to rationality by Atheists. You people have zero self awareness.

The only people who have any claim to rationality are Agnostics and we are the saddest creatures on earth.

Until you can take a random soup of phospahtes and sugars with an extra adenine and thymine and guanine and cytosine hanging around and pop out a strand of DNA that could somehow form into any sort of living object you believe in a religion.

It is entirely irrational knowing the complexity of even the simplest single cell organism to think it just randomly happened.

Michael K said...

Blogger is doing double posts today.

stlcdr said...

As gspencer noted:

"I'm reluctant to comment on another person's faith"

...and then goes on to bash Trump and his faith.

It seems like he has something interesting to say, but just uses it as an excuse to bash Trump, again and again. Maybe that's why the lefties like him. To quote "a breath of fresh air".

The irony is that he has used the 'divisiveness' ploy blaming Trump: but this is the kind of commentary that divides people.

I guess at this point, all he has to do is get through a primary election, as if republicans don't care. But, unfortunately for him, they will remember his negative, divisive and deriding comments.

Achilles said...

gahrie said...
There is nothing in the new testament. I don't think Jesus cared at all.

Jesus condemned sexual immorality. At the time homosexuality was considered sexual immorality.

Now there is a stretchy stretch.

Even you must know how thin that one is.

Fernandistein said...

But[tigieg]! No religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.

mockturtle said...

There is plenty of New Testament condemnation of homosexuality. There is no ambiguity there. But it is also true that we all sin and fall short of the glory of God. But Christ died for our sins and by grace we are saved through faith.

I don't know if Trump is a Christian. Probably not, though he seems to believe [as do a lot of people] in God. But, as Christ has said, "No one comes to the Father but by me".

gahrie said...

Even you must know how thin that one is.


Why? Because he said sexual immorality instead of specifically mentioning homosexuality? Does that mean that when he condemns sin, he's obligated to list every sin or we can assume he didn't mean all sin?

exhelodrvr1 said...

Implication being that he would be a better President because he is "more Christian?"

See Carter, James Earl, 1 ea.

AJ Lynch said...

I find it hard to believe far left Dems believe in God.

Christopher said...

Nobody genuinely believes Trump is religious and none of the religious voters who supported him are operating under this delusion. They didn't vote for him because they thought he was a practicing Christian, they voted for him because the Democrats had all but declared war on them.

The previous administration literally sued nuns because they didn't want to fund abortions. Their spokesman refused to rule out going after the tax exempt status of religious organizations that opposed gay marriage. The Democrats were targeting Christian businesses in order to put them out of business. The mayor of Houston subpoenaed sermons because she didn't like that they spoke out against something she supported. California issued BS criminal charges against the filmmakers showing PP selling the organs of dead children.

You could go on and on but simply put the writing is on the wall and voters know where the left is heading. This inability to understand how they could support someone like Trump is either feigned or a sign of genuine stupidity.

narciso said...

he really was a student of the west wing, if it wasn't for the bible, this country would not be around, it took those pilgrims and other people of faith to embark here, like I say along with all the other sins, 'there is no one good, no not one' but one tries,

Jonathan Graehl said...

What does Buttigieg know about others' actual religious feeling? It's easy to take a contradictory set of 'absolute truths' and play games with them, but we should take people at their word when they say they're praying to God etc. - just know that it means something different to everyone and sometimes means very little.

BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

Religious tests are administered from the left.

gahrie said...

Jesus condemned all sexual acts except those between a man and his wife as sinful.

Henry said...

Jesus condemned sexual immorality.

Jesus also condemned the condemners. Original guy, Jesus. Not a fan of pharisees.

Darcy said...

Spot on. This is a frequent knock on Trump from non-believers, but Buttigieg is a Christian, so it is doubly offensive to me (as a Christian - or more particularly, a follower of Christ).

Dude. Lead with your own sin.

rehajm said...

Two years into a Trump presidency and we still have to explain it: The pomposity, the bombast, the blowhard- it’s an act, tongue in cheek, cultivated over the decades that he uses to great effect.

He’s also been self deprecating.

Your creative writing about why you hate Trump doesn’t disguise that you just don’t like it when Republicans are in charge, Trump or anyone else. It’s exposing your insincerity and it’s boring.

bagoh20 said...

Holding yourself equal to or above other men says nothing about your humility to GOD.

GOD is not equal to other assholes who you must defend yourself against 24/7 becuase they assume they are better than you on virtually everything.

As to humility and arrogance, how does that fit with deciding which children are worthy or not of life?

bagoh20 said...

Hey Butthead,
He does it becuase it always makes people like you expose your hatred and hypocrisy. Stop being a sucker.

Trumpit said...

"He is a faker," she said of the presumptive Republican presidential nominee, going point by point, as if presenting a legal brief. "He has no consistency about him. He says whatever comes into his head at the moment. He really has an ego. ... How has he gotten away with not turning over his tax returns? The press seems to be very gentle with him on that." - Ruth Bader Ginsburg on Trump

Now, that's a take down I can agree with. Religion is personal, or should be. It is also "fake news" since it's inception. You're not going to heaven or hell, you're going to cease to exist. I prefer not to call someone a hypocrite when it has to do with religion that is based on bogus tenets in the first place.

narciso said...

whereas the left, in broad strokes, celebrates sin as the way to go, jesus met with sinner, to show them the error of their ways, but 2 timothy illustrates the world we would see,

rehajm said...

Give him credit: That’s some quality tight rope walking to try and garner religious swing state midwesterners into your flock.

Roy Jacobsen said...

Achilles said...
There is nothing in the new testament. I don't think Jesus cared at all.

Paul's epistles aren't part of the New Testament? Who knew?

I will be glad when this hatred disappears from the world. You people need to let god do the judging on that.

Believing that something is morally wrong IS NOT THE SAME THING as hatred. Saying that they are the same thing is a lie. (And for the record, I do not hate people who lie.)

By the way, should we also let God do the judging on murder and theft?

R.J. Chatt said...

The guy Buttigieg gets more irritating all the time. First I was annoyed by his evasive double talk defending the ridiculous protest of Harvard students towards a law professor defending Weinstein. Then I was irritated by his pc pandering comment about transgender students having bathroom facilities (Bill Maher interview). Either B., is completely ignorant about all the complex problems involved with transgenders -- how political forces are pushing very young children into indentifying as transgender, or how transwomen are unfairly competing in sports, etc., or he's being deliberately deceptive. And now he presumes to judge Trump's spirituality. I know there are plenty of religious people who believe that God created male and female and intends people to be fruitful and multiply. That's pretty basic ("Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve") so how can you say you believe in God, Pete? I don't personally believe that but it's a perfectly reasonable to challenge his beliefs as well.

The thing about Christianity is that no one is expected to be perfect. Buttigieg should know better. He's turning out to be an arrogant ahole.

Not Sure said...

A classic humblebrag

wendybar said...

Is there anything left for the Democrats to bash President Trump about?? We get it. You hate him. It gets old.

Greg Q said...

5.

Pete is subordinating his religious beliefs, if any to his political desires.

Rather pathetic, that he doesn't have any actual policy differences on which he can attack Trump, so he has to go after his religion.

Fernandistein said...

Trump is colluding with Jesus.

traditionalguy said...

Will Buttigieg be the first to break the butt fucker glass ceiling? Progress progresses.

AlbertAnonymous said...

I used to teach 8th graders on the faith. I tried to make the sexual morality discussion simple and not focused on the hot button of homosexual acts. (Catholic haters often claim we are anti-homosexual rather than anti-homosexual sex - but that’s a topic for a different thread).

In a nutshell: God made us male and female, and intended sex to be shared only between one man and one woman, married, for life, and open to the possibility that the act will create life. It is both unitive and procreative. It unites the couple and leads to procreation. In that context, if a child results, it is reared by the (united) married couple who are committed to God, committed to each other, and committed to the child.

All sex outside that construct is sinful, whether you are married, single, straight, gay, or anything else.

Plenty of people (everyone?) have sexual desires/sexual proclivities (myself included) outside that limited rubric. God wants us to be better than that and not act on them.

I don’t care if Pete is gay, but if he is engaging in homosexual acts, then he is sinning against his God and he might take his own advice and humble himself (ie, quit throwing religious stones).

m stone said...

I think you need to pay attention to what Trump does out of the spotlight, rather than public displays often edited by the networks. Re: humility.

I recall his late-night visit to that airfield to be in solemn attendance as a soldier's body arrived. He also greeted each of the West Point graduates last year, standing in the hot sun for over two or three hours.

He does more than he's given credit for.

m

mockturtle said...

rehajm observes: Two years into a Trump presidency and we still have to explain it: The pomposity, the bombast, the blowhard- it’s an act, tongue in cheek, cultivated over the decades that he uses to great effect.

Exactly! It's hard to believe people really don't get it. It's easier to believe they are being disingenuous.

Achilles said...

By the way, should we also let God do the judging on murder and theft?

Oh where to begin.

1. 10 commandments. Look them up.

2. We don’t (yet) throw sinners in jail for sin.

At some points in the past things did happen though. I really hope you aren’t suggesting we throw gay people in jail.

hombre said...

Achilles: “There is nothing in the new testament. I don't think Jesus cared at all.”

Funny, in his Epistles, Paul, a former Pharisee who understood that “adultery” does not encompass all sexual immorality, preached abstention from “sexual immorality” a dozen or so times. His meaning is not unclear, particularly given his schooling on the Old Testament.

Refusing to embrace behavior that is anthetical to Christian beliefs has nothing to do with hatred except in the eyes of LGBTQs and Democrats.

robother said...

I can only pray that Gay Jesus and Beat-o Jesus are in the same Democrat debate bracket. This kind of "reluctant to cast the first stone" rope-a-dope should be fun to watch.

mockturtle said...

Per Albert Anonymous: I don’t care if Pete is gay, but if he is engaging in homosexual acts, then he is sinning against his God and he might take his own advice and humble himself (ie, quit throwing religious stones).

Amen to that!!! If anyone lives in a glass house, he does.

FIDO said...

This is a move to gather the semi woke religious and Conservative Trump haters into his fold.

Or he has seriously deluded himself that a person who stridently worked to destroy the sacred bonds of marriage and. In their minds, ATTACKED Christianity is preferable to a serial adulterer for many Christians.

Not happening. Trumps grandiosity and adultery is a personal problem, not a threat of a Party who forces Churches, bakers, etc to violate their beliefs by threat of jail.

Obama and his Obamacare lies has cost the party a huge block of Christian voters for decades if not forever. Not the black community...yet. But some Hispanics and soon, these groups will make some ballot choices too.

Butting is not getting the black vote. He won't get much of the Hispanic vote either. He would get a lot of Woke Legal professor types if only he was straight and handsome like Beto.

Francisco D said...


I am offended by people bringing their religious attitudes and beliefs into the public sphere because it is a deeply personal and often uncertain matter.

Intelligent people always struggle with belief and with how to define God's presence. It does not help when politicians try to manipulate that struggle.

Skeptical Voter said...

Buttigieg is an interesting case--religion wise. His parents taught at Notre Dame. He graduated from a Catholic high school, and is apparently a devout Episcopalian. So high church all the way. I won't throw shade on the Episcopalians--they've simply led the way in the deviation of mainline Protestant churches from the old time religion.

But I don't think one should stand on a high church altar and denigrate (that's a word that some of our dumber Congress critters would equate with the dreaded "N" word) another person's religion. Who the heck anointed Buttigieg as the Apostle Paul or Pope Francis whatever?

In a good low church Baptist congregation in the South, Pete's same sex marriage might indicate that he had no religion at all. But they wouldn't cast stones at him for it. Now down in Brunei they might stone him to death for his gay conduct, but in Birmingham, he'd be okay.

mockturtle said...

One of my favorite lessons from Scripture from Luke 18:

"Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted."

Achilles said...

Roy Jacobsen said...
Achilles said...
There is nothing in the new testament. I don't think Jesus cared at all.

Paul's epistles aren't part of the New Testament? Who knew?

Fine. Let us amend that.

Not with a single word or deed did Jesus Christ ever condemn or mention homosexuality.

But lots of imputations by people exist.

I will go with his words, not yours or anyone else’s.

Sebastian said...

"I just don’t understand"

See, this is why Brooks told us that "all sides" are "comfortable" with Pete. I mean, who wouldn't want to be lectured about true Christianity by a prog in the anti-Christian party?

Char Char Binks said...

It's something someone would only say as a stab at a political opponent.

"I’ve never seen him humble himself before anyone."

Why should he? Are they gods? Besides, don't all good leftists see Trump humble himself constantly before Putin?

"I have said, 'You are gods; you are all sons of the Most High. But like mortals you will die, and like rulers you will fall", so maybe Trump, Putin, and Bootyjig are that kind of god.

mockturtle said...

Achilles: “There is nothing in the new testament. I don't think Jesus cared at all.”

Romans 1: 26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

I Corinthians 6: “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God”

AlbertAnonymous said...

Mockturtle gets it.

That’s a great reference.

And another that’ll be replayed again shortly: The “good thief”.

To whom Jesus said: “Today, you shall be with me in paradise.”

Thanks for an uplifting discussion today!

Yancey Ward said...

I sense no actual reluctance.

I give this 4 Pinocchios.

Tommy Duncan said...

Is the Mayor baiting us? Is he seeking public attention in the form of religious condemnation for his sexuality? That condemnation would, of course, be met with bitter outrage in the liberal media and help propel his candidacy.

FleetUSA said...

Yep, the mayor is trying to separate Trump from his Christian backers. It won't work as he reveals all the socialist baggage he's trying to import.

Nobody said...

Christianity is to liberals the same as the Constitution and the Geneva Convention is. They all mean to TRUE [fill in the blank] whatever liberals believe.

Buttwhatever is proving himself a shallow thinker.

FullMoon said...

One thing we might all agree on:

No, we ain't makin' jews like jesus anymore,
We don't turn the other cheek the way they done before.
Well, the whole damn place was singin' as I strolled right out the door
Lord, they ain't makin' jews like jesus anymore!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESNCWrks6vQ

chuck said...

Well, there's the feet of clay peeking out from under the cassock. I think silent Cal Coolidge was onto something.

Trumpit said...

"I don’t care if Pete is gay, but if he is engaging in homosexual acts, then he is sinning against his God."

Bullpucky! You do care if he is gay. Do you expect a gay man to engage in heterosexual acts? Don't be ridiculous.

Yancey Ward said...

It is fascinating watching Democrats trying to drive a wedge between church goers and the Republican candidate for any office. It never works, but they never stop trying either.

Fernandistein said...

"I’ve never seen him humble himself before anyone."

"It takes a big man to humble himself before anyone, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man."

Butt seriously folks, I think Buttglue was referring to Obama humbling himself before those Arabs.

Yancey Ward said...

I have to give credit to Trumpit- that card was beautifully played!

eric said...

gahrie said...
Even you must know how thin that one is.


Why? Because he said sexual immorality instead of specifically mentioning homosexuality? Does that mean that when he condemns sin, he's obligated to list every sin or we can assume he didn't mean all sin?

4/3/19, 11:55 AM


I've never really understood this line of thinking.

Paul clearly calls out homosexuality. If one believes the Bible, or is at least pretending to read the scripture in context, Christ Himself picked Paul to serve Him on the road to Damascus.

But Paul doesn't really know what he's talking about?

Ok then. How about this. Christ never specifically called out homosexuality therefore homosexuality is not a sin?

Let's apply this to pedophilia then. Christ never called out pedophilia either, therefore pedophilia is also not sinful?

The only answer I've ever heard to this is a non sequitur: "OMG! You just compared homosexuals to pedophiles! They aren't the same!"

hombre said...

@Achilles regarding 12:16 post: Your arguments are biblically unsound and you are not distinguishing between moral and legal judging. Christians do not advocate for Sharia Law-like consequences merely by identifying what we believe is sinful and characterizing it as such.

Our opposition to gay marriage, for example, was intended to prevent the defiling of a Christian sacrament when civil unions could accomplish the same purpose. It was not an endorsement of throwing people in jail for being gay. (There was also the secular notion that same sex marriage is absurd, but that’s not on us.)

Hunter said...

There's more than one way to be arrogant.

"We all have a standard and we are either proud because we are living up to that standard, or decimated because we are not."
-- Tim Keller

"Think you're really righteous? Think you're pure in heart?
Well, I know I'm a million times as humble as thou art!"
-- Weird Al Yankovic

Darcy said...

Christ never called out pedophilia either, therefore pedophilia is also not sinful?

Timely. Liberals are working this angle as well. Their concept of sin is not biblical. The question is where the authority for their concept of sin comes from.

Greg Q said...

Blogger Achilles said...
Roy Jacobsen said...
Achilles said...
There is nothing in the new testament. I don't think Jesus cared at all.

Paul's epistles aren't part of the New Testament? Who knew?

Fine. Let us amend that.

Not with a single word or deed did Jesus Christ ever condemn or mention homosexuality.

But lots of imputations by people exist.

I will go with his words, not yours or anyone else’s.



So, let's go with his words and actions.

Did Jesus ever sup with homosexuals? Did Jesus tell any parables about the "Good Homosexual"?

Prostitutes, thieves, lepers, tax collectors, thieves (but I repeat myself), even Samaritans and Romans, they ALL got "dont' worry, you're going to Heaven."

But no homosexuals.

I guess they just slipped his mind, yeah?

What sinners did Jesus actually attack?
The rich, the powerful, the well respected and well connected.

Did Jesus ever even condemn robbery, rape, or murder? Do you seriously try to claim "well, Jesus didn't explicitly condemn this action, so it's no longer a sin" for all the crimes of humanity where that's true?

You do you, but your "argument" is utter garbage.

narayanan said...

I'm not reluctant to ask: Is Buttigieg's commentary humble or arrogant?

HUMBLEBRAG combines and covers the overlap

you need a tag for "humility bullshit"

Char Char Binks said...

I am by far, bar none, the undisputed, all-time meekest motherfucker ever to walk the face of the planet.

William said...

I can believe that Buttigieg is more modest and humble than Trump. Who isn't? Being modest and humble is part of Mayor Pete's schtick, and being outsized is part of Trump's......I don't know much about Trump's religious beliefs. I suspect that they're pretty malleable, but I do know that Trump submits to a higher power--namely that of capitalism and market forces. I have my doubts about Buttigieg in this regard. There is some reason to believe that the invisible hand of the market is, in fact, the hand of God. Buttigieg' s disbelief in market forces disqualifies him from membership in the community of the blessed. He should be shunned by the faithful......... The best statement I heard about Trump and the evangelicals is that the evangelicals are looking for a bodyguard and not a prophet. They're getting what they want out of Trump......I wonder if Buttigieg will have a metoo moment. Perhaps he truly is a dutiful spouse who never strays. It's my understanding that dutiful vows are more malleable in gay couples than in straight couples. There might be some interesting developments. Gay men shouldn't brag about how proper their sex lives are and, outside of Buttigieg, rarely do.

Wa St Blogger said...

Man's sexual desires run a very wide gamut. The Christian teaching is that the only valid expression of sex was in the context of monogamous heterosexual marriage. People in the LGBQT community and those who sympathize with their plight under this moral restriction take offense when homosexuality is counted as sin by the more traditional Christians.

But the teaching has not changed, just the objection to the restrictions. ALL other expressions outside of marriage are considered invalid by Christian teaching, but only some are considered valid modern morality.

Gay sex is the primary one

Others that are quasi frowned upon:
Orgies
fornication
adultery
multiple partners

And then there is the list of things not yet allowed in polite (western society*)
Necrophilia
Pedophilia
bestiality

*Apparently in some cultures buggering boys (as long as they are still boys) is not considered homosexual activity.

These outliers hold the same revulsion that gay sex once did. Nothing changed in Christian teaching, just society has changed. And it will change more. Maybe other types of sexual activity will become acceptable. Christianity should still be the same.

I can bet that there are millions of men who would prefer the social restriction against multiple (serially or simultaneously) female partners was a little less strong. But you don't see these people calling Christians evil or hateful for their teaching.

Yeah, it might not make you happy that you are not supposed to have sex with that cute blonde over there since you are not married to her. And maybe you may never get married, so having a proper relationship might never happen, but the rules are still the same. And yes, it is worse for the homosexuals. They don't even have at a happy relationship but again, don't blame the modern Christian for believing the scriptures.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

Considering Trump panders to evangelicals and pretends he’s a practicing Christian to get votes, what Buttigeig said is right on the mark. It’s time to open your Trumpist eyes because there are going to be people like Buttigeig who will point out the truth and people who aren’t blinded by Trump Cultism will recognize it as truth. Good for him, keep it up Buttigeig!

readering said...

I think it's the kind of thing you can say in private conversation. Interesting concept. But foolish for a politician to talk about other people's faith in US political system.

Leland said...

Since he is in the Democrat primary, this will be red meat devoured by supporters and quickly forgotten by the general election.

To answer the poll, 2.

As for Trump, he was hired to perform a secular job and is performing beyond expectations.

William said...

Jesus chased the money changers out of the temple but said nothing about the slave dealers. Mohammed preached against usury but said nothing against slave dealing. Socrates had a fairly tolerant attitude towards both homosexuality and slave owning.......A lot of self evident truths aren't.

Nonapod said...

gahrie said...Humble people don't run for president.

This.

Personally I don't find it particularly "humble" to wonder aloud or question the humility and/or faith of another person in general, but especially about a political advisary. Especially if you couch it in phrase like "I'm reluctant to [say this but I'm gonna say it anyway]". It comes off as sanctimonious, self serving and not at all persuasive to people outside your immediate bubble.

Hunter said...

It really shouldn't be hard to understand how someone who believes in God can act in almost any way, within reason. People who believe in God aren't necessarily pious and don't necessarily look better than people who don't. We can hope they're better people than they would be if they didn't believe in God, but that's about it.

A Christian should not question anyone's salvation. It's fair to question their theology. For instance it is, let's say, problematic for any self-professed Christian to state that he's never asked God for forgiveness. Even if, as is possible, he was just being prickly at the question.

What we can say for sure is he is no spiritual leader, and to the extent he has any spiritual life, it's not evident. That's the same thing I would say about Barack Obama, who strikes me as (if I was forced to guess) an agnostic. But who knows? We aren't privy to the innermost thoughts and spiritual turmoil of public figures. Also, Donald Trump is a man who knows how to project whatever image of himself he wishes, be it true or false.

Fernandistein said...

Necrophilia
Pedophilia
bestiality


So no more sex with dead puppies? Asking for a friend, of course.

Wa St Blogger said...

onsidering Trump panders to evangelicals and pretends he’s a practicing Christian to get votes

Same as Obama. Same as the Clintons and other Dems who pander to women's issues. But as others said, your would hate Pence more for his actual adherence to his values, so your argument is worthless. You have no consistent standard other than (R) person bad.

As for Trump pandering to evangelicals. Yes, there are LIV evangelicals, but almost no one I know in any forum has ever been swayed by Trump's evangelical bona-fides. Only the LEFT thinks the evangelicals think Trump is righteous. The right only thinks his policies are more in line with their values, not the man himself.

The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...

What a load of dogshit. I'm not even going to read the comments. Believers are totally hip to the bad faith and hypocrisy of nonbelievers trying to hold them to a standard that the nonbelievers couldn't care less about in their own lives. Far from telling with believers, Buttigeig's comment merely confirms that he's a bullshitter in their eyes. Why does the Left think this stuff works?

Francisco D said...

So-called "evangelicals" are not a monolithic political force.

Some are mainstream liberals, some are woke liberals, some are mainstream conservatives and some are religiously conservative. Only the last group looks for politicians who validate their religious views.

It is a mistake to think that conservative evangelicals don't know who Trump is. They made rational decisions to vote for him despite his personal life. They are very likely to do so again in 2020.

Wa St Blogger said...

So no more sex with dead puppies? Asking for a friend, of course.

Maybe if Xe got zhe's positive consent it might be ok in some circles.

AJ Lynch said...

What does Mayor Pete, son of a Marxist, think the Bible says about the Dem party's insatiable lust for power over everything including the type of energy we use, cars we drive, meat we eat, the things we teach in school, the re-defining of words, the re-distribution of wealth by the state, etc?

Bob Boyd said...

Who is Buttigieg directing this at? Does he imagine Christians who support Trump will see this and slap their foreheads?

tim maguire said...

I am aware of no godly person who would presume to judge whether another person is a believer. A sinner, sure. But a bliever? Never.

Roy Jacobsen said...

Fine. Let us amend that.

Not with a single word or deed did Jesus Christ ever condemn or mention homosexuality.


"For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished." Matthew 5:18.

Jesus was affirming the OT's take on moral and immoral acts, therefore saying "Jesus never mentioned [x]" doesn't carry much weight.

Hunter said...

Christian moral ethics do preclude homosexuality since the original design was male and female united as one. Jesus did affirm that, in Matthew 19.

Now of course, anyone who has had premarital sex, extramarital sex, or a divorce has committed the same sin as a homosexual person under that model. The point isn't to hold it over anyone's head. But all the same, there is one ideal, and anything else by definition falls short of it.

EDH said...

Just when I thought he might be a decent person despite his politics.

A flawed, desperate attempt a triangulation.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“The 2016 presidential exit polling reveals little change in the political alignments of U.S. religious groups. Those who supported Republican candidates in recent elections, such as white born-again or evangelical Christians and white Catholics, strongly supported Donald Trump as well. Groups that traditionally backed Democratic candidates, including religious “nones,” Hispanic Catholics and Jews, were firmly in Hillary Clinton’s corner.”

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/11/09/how-the-faithful-voted-a-preliminary-2016-analysis/

“The right only thinks his policies are more in line with their values, not the man himself.”

If evangelical Christians think Trump’s policies are more in line with their values, I’d have to question their “values”. I say this as a non evangelical Christian.

Jeff said...

In a nutshell: God made us male and female, and intended sex to be shared only between one man and one woman, married, for life, and open to the possibility that the act will create life. It is both unitive and procreative. It unites the couple and leads to procreation. In that context, if a child results, it is reared by the (united) married couple who are committed to God, committed to each other, and committed to the child.

All sex outside that construct is sinful, whether you are married, single, straight, gay, or anything else.


And in an even smaller nutshell: Fuck off.

EAB said...

He shouldn’t just be reluctant to opine on whether or not Trump (or anyone) is a Christian, he should flatly refuse to do so. Because that is peering into another’s heart, and only God can do that and truly know who belongs to Him. It’s especially inappropriate within the context of a political battle. (So I think that puts us in 4 or 5 territory)

My attitude is B is fully allowed to state his view of scripture and how he applies it to his life and where he thinks the church has been or is hypocritical or misguided. I don’t disagree with everything he said in his interview. But, he criticizes Christians on the right for cherry picking scripture to fit their views, yet he seems to be doing the same thing to fit his views. (And please don’t talk to me about being on the “right side of history” - I don’t care. I need to be right with God.)

My biggest issue is trying to bend scripture to fit politics. I’m done with Christians...on the right and left...telling me scripture dictates votes or policy. If we are going down the [silly] path of where Jesus was silent, it was certainly on governmental policies.

Above all, I find it odd that, for the media, faith is legitimate in politics on the Left if it forms the basis for progressive agendas, but on the Right, it is illegitimate because it takes us into theocracy.

Kevin said...

I find it hard to believe far left Dems believe in God.

The next JFK is the one to which they bow down.

Fernandistein said...

World’s first jaguar born by artificial insemination is eaten by mom

mockturtle said...

EAB observes: My biggest issue is trying to bend scripture to fit politics. I’m done with Christians...on the right and left...telling me scripture dictates votes or policy. If we are going down the [silly] path of where Jesus was silent, it was certainly on governmental policies.

Other than, “And he said unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which be Caesar's, and unto God the things which be God's.”

Achilles said...

Wa St Blogger said...

But the teaching has not changed, just the objection to the restrictions. ALL other expressions outside of marriage are considered invalid by Christian teaching, but only some are considered valid modern morality.

They are considered sin.

We are talking about government policy.

It is really odd watching Christians try to ban sin with the government.

AlbertAnonymous said...

Hunter,

Just a minor quibble (because I've seen people confused by this for a long time), divorce is not sinful. Sex thereafter would be, but the divorce itself is not.

I've heard/read lots of Catholics who thought they couldn't receive communion (being outside a state of grace), because they were divorced. They are universally gladdened to hear that they are not excluded simply because of the divorce.

policraticus said...

Judge not, lest ye be judged.

Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Matthew 7:1,15-23

Lots of meat here to digest. The question for us, and for Mr Buttigieg, in light of Matthew's standard and warning, is "What sort of fruit are we judging?" And, "Are we so very sure that we are truly workers of wonders or will it turn out that Christ didn't know us at all?"

We are all made of the same crooked timber of humanity, we are all fallen creatures who are struggling (hopefully) to produce something good and true and straight. Donald Trump is many things, many of them less than credible, a serial philanderer, voluptuary, egomaniac, etc. On the other hand, he has never advocated for late term abortion, nor has he, as a candidate, punted on the question of whether abortion is a moral evil. Pete Buttigieg has many credible qualities, he is honest and humble, a faithful man and a public servant. On the other hand, if someone wants to abort a baby after the point of viability, he thinks that is really none of his business.

So, how to we understand the fruits of #45 and Mayor Pete? How are we to judge an evil man who stands for a good thing, or a good man who will countenance an evil thing?

AlbertAnonymous said...

Love you anyway, Jeff. In a nutshell.

Achilles said...

Inga...Allie Oop said...

If evangelical Christians think Trump’s policies are more in line with their values, I’d have to question their “values”. I say this as a non evangelical Christian.

Republican voters want :

3+% growth.
Low unemployment.
Manufacturing Jobs here in the US.
Borders.
Rule of Law.

Democrat voters want:

Open borders.
All manufacturing moved to China.
Crony trade.
under 2% growth.
record numbers of people on food stamps.
Government sponsored racism.
Infantacide.
High unemployment.
One set of laws for democrats and another for enemies.
Spying on political opponents.

I will take the values of republican voters.

Lou M said...

#5.

Wa St Blogger said...

It is really odd watching Christians try to ban sin with the government.

It's not limited to Christians, everyone tries to get the government to enforce the morality they hold to. It's just Christians are the only ones derided for it.

I lean libertarian and do think we should enforce morality in the strict sense, though I do think the government has a role in enforcing laws to protect the vulnerable from the powerful or to protect life, liberty and property.

Henry said...

I think Trump demanding that Mexico pay for his golden calf was the giveaway.

Morkoth4682 said...

Do they? The Old Testament aside, did Jesus ever speak on the subject of homosexuality?

-------------

Matthew 5:18

For verily I say unto you, Till
heaven and earth pass, one jot or one
tittle shall in no wise pass from
the law, till all be fulfilled.

Rick said...

Considering Trump panders to evangelicals and pretends he’s a practicing Christian to get votes, what Buttigeig said is right on the mark. It’s time to open your Trumpist eyes because there are going to be people like Buttigeig who will point out the truth and people who aren’t blinded by Trump Cultism will recognize it as truth. Good for him, keep it up Buttigeig!

It's revealing that while this is no different from Obama the court fool believes this proves all kinds of things about Trump supporters but nothing about Obama supporters. Why it's almost like everything she says is driven by partisan hate and facts are irrelevant.

bagoh20 said...

"World’s first jaguar born by artificial insemination is eaten by mom."

Another Democrat sticking to their religion and policies.

Hunter said...

Agreed, Albert. I should have been more precise.

MacMacConnell said...

Is Buttigieg this fagilious Ivy League marxist's real name or a gay nick name from junior high? Asking for a friend.

He seems to be a jag off like my Pope.

Bilwick said...

Isn't Red Diaper Buttsky, like Inga, primarily a member of the Cult of the State, which supersedes all other loyalties? He sounds like one of those "liberal Christian" theocrats, who want to use the coercive powers of Der Staat to force their stupid version of Christianity on the rest of society. If Jesus instructed us to "Help the poor," these geniuses interpret that to mean, "Pick your neighbor's pockets and give the loot to the poor." I'm non-religious, but that's not the Jesus I've read about.

RBE said...

My first thought after reading Buttigieg's comment was "Well isn't he special". In a weird way that I can't fully describe...sorry...but I think Trump has been humble since becoming President. Few people could take the amount of grief he has and not buckled. I see him fighting for his country and his constituents more than for himself. I haven't seen any other political leader like him in my lifetime. Hate him or like him, that's impressive and humble.

Achilles said...

Roy Jacobsen said...
Fine. Let us amend that.

Not with a single word or deed did Jesus Christ ever condemn or mention homosexuality.

"For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished." Matthew 5:18.

Jesus was affirming the OT's take on moral and immoral acts, therefore saying "Jesus never mentioned [x]" doesn't carry much weight.

Sure.

The central point Jesus wanted to make is Christians need to hate gay people and ban gay marriage using the government. Some oblique quote proves it.

He said nothing else useful.

Cling to your hate. Keep demanding government ban gay marriage. Keep calling people immoral.

Jesus really really wanted you all to bash gay people.

Super a lot.

SDaly said...

Jesus never mentioned that kidnapping was wrong, so that means he thought it was okay, right Achilles?

Henry said...

On the other hand, Jesus did say to pluck out your eye if you look on a woman with lust.

Hunter said...

Achilles said...
The central point Jesus wanted to make is Christians need to hate gay people and ban gay marriage using the government. Some oblique quote proves it.

Jesus wouldn't have been making either of those points regardless. In the same way, the point of what he said to the rich young ruler wasn't that rich people are wicked, or that we should take their stuff and redistribute it.

Achilles said...

SDaly said...
Jesus never mentioned that kidnapping was wrong, so that means he thought it was okay, right Achilles?

That is stupid.

I appreciate the tenacity of the hate. Just be honest people.

Stop using christianity to justify it.

Henry said...

Mathew 9:21 fails to mention any government involvement, but Jesus does advise the rich to lose the wealth.

Greg Q said...

Blogger Achilles said...

They are considered sin.

We are talking about government policy.

It is really odd watching Christians try to ban sin with the government.


Really? Here, let me help you:

"Sin" == "bad behavior"

Everyone, everywhere, tries to use government to ban, block, and / or decrease "bad behavior". Their definitions of what qualifies as "bad behavior" differ, but their desire to use gov't against it does not.

Murder, rape, homosexuality, transphobia, racism, deadbeat dads, sexism, bigotry, hatred, everyone has things they want gov't to stop other people from doing. When you pretend otherwise, what you're saying is that a: you're a liar, and b: your position is so pathetically bad that you have no legitimate way to defend it

Robert Cook said...

"First of all, how do you set the Old Testament aside when discussing Christianity? Secondly, Jesus condemned sexual immorality when homosexual acts were considered sinful and immoral."

What, specifically, did he say about sexual immorality? And, to the extent he did, did he distinguish homosexuality as being different from or worse than sexual immorality in general? As he said, all are sinners, so homosexuals are no worse than heterosexual fornicators. He advised his disciples not to condemn anyone, given their own personal failings.

The Old Testament and the New are two entirely separate pieces of literature. Yes, Jesus says he "came to fulfill the law," but what does that mean? If he did not specifically mention or condemn homosexuality, then we cannot assume he considered it a sin greater than other sins.

In short, Trump is no better than homosexuals--or homosexuals are no worse than Trump--in terms of their sexual "immorality."

Jeff said...

Progressives are the modern Puritans. That's been painfully obvious for a long time.

Michael said...

It did not take long for Butt to clarify that he is an asshole, deeply rooted turd.

Henry said...

Jeff said...
Progressives are the modern Puritans.

That's a rather surreal statement for the direction this thread went in.

Angle-Dyne, Samurai Buzzard said...

Christopher: Nobody genuinely believes Trump is religious and none of the religious voters who supported him are operating under this delusion. They didn't vote for him because they thought he was a practicing Christian, they voted for him because the Democrats had all but declared war on them.
[...]

You could go on and on but simply put the writing is on the wall and voters know where the left is heading. This inability to understand how they could support someone like Trump is either feigned or a sign of genuine stupidity.


The devotion of these people to the phantasmagoric "Trump supporters" in their heads is a continuing wonder. I don't think it's either dishonesty or simple stupidity, but it is a very good illustration of Haidt's finding that conservatives are significantly more likely than liberals to understand and to be able to accurately describe their opponents' views. (The "NeverTrumpers" have the same handicap as liberals, but neocon-ery and conservativism(tm) are really just sub-branches of liberalism.)

*Why* they are so desperately attached to beliefs about "the Other" that are obvious nonsense, I don't know, either. (E.g., as in this case, "evangelicals voted for Trump because they think he's a choir boy".) My guess is that it arises from a certain fundie mindset wherein a rigid and counter-to-reality worldview can only be maintained by completely closing out any diversity (ha) of viewpoint. So dissenters are dealt with by making them into mental cartoons whose imagined views can be "slotted in" without disrupting anything in what is a very fragile system.

Pianoman said...

"Are Christian teachings limited to the spoken words of Jesus? Here’s an answer: No."

I'd get even more specific:

Are Christian teachings limited to the recorded words of Jesus?

There's plenty that Jesus said that was not written down.

I don't recall anything explicit in the Gospels where Jesus condemned bestiality, so I guess by this reasoning, "Christianity is ok with bestiality".

Roy Jacobsen said...

Achilles said...
The central point Jesus wanted to make is Christians need to hate gay people and ban gay marriage using the government. Some oblique quote proves it.

Once again, believing that [fill in the blank] is immoral IS NOT THE SAME THING AS "hating" people who do [fill in the blank.]

But it would appear that, since you keep repeating it, that lie is all you have.

Greg Q said...

Achilles said...
The central point Jesus wanted to make is Christians need to hate gay people and ban gay marriage using the government. Some oblique quote proves it.


Um, you have an amazing ability to get things exactly backwards.

Nothing every stopped to men, or two women, from "marrying" each other.

What we, rightly, prevented was those two people demanding that the gov't celebrate and regularize their "marriage".

What we, rightly, prevented was governments forcing decent human beings to participate in those fake "marriages". See Masterpiece Cakeshop. See Arlene's Flowers. See Memories Pizza

You want to talk about hatred? The, if you're honest, what you'll talk about is the hatred the Left has for anyone who denies the Left's dogmas.

Obergefell wasn't about allowing two men to "marry" each other. It was about forcing the rest of society to pretend it's a real marriage, and to give them all the benefits that society gives real marriages.

Otto said...

How silly to hear atheists talk about religion
"Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?
The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,
"Let's cut the ropes and set ourselves free!"
From his throne in heaven the Lord laughs and mocks their feeble plans."




Robert Cook said...

"His Marxist tactics are exposed. He is calling good evil and saying evil is a good.The gospel of Paul rediscovered and explained by Calvin values born again free men justified by Faith alone."

Your unclear pronouns aside, a person who truly has faith does not persistently behave badly. A person who excuses his persistent sinful ways by saying his "faith" saves him is lying to others, and possibly to himself. "Faith" is not simply holding a fancy "belief" that one does not act on, but is something one is committed to, and is the basis for behavior in life. That is, someone with true faith behaves such that his or her faith is apparent. Many claim to have faith who show--and have--none.

The only doctrine that can be ascribed to Jesus is that which he said himself. Paul the Apostle is just another person interpreting and using doctrine according to his own understanding and/or motives.

Pianoman said...

Jesus also taught in the Temple, and many people referred to him as "Rabbi". So he was well versed in the Law.

"He advised his disciples not to condemn anyone, given their own personal failings."

Not exactly. What he said was (paraphrasing): "Don't judge others unless you're willing to be judged yourself."

In other words: Don't be a hypocrite.

Matt. 7:1-6

Robert Cook said...

""Are Christian teachings limited to the spoken words of Jesus? Here’s an answer: No."

Here's the right answer: Yes.

stevew said...

I'm going with #5, am open to being convinced he is #4.

My religion teaches me not to judge and question the religious beliefs of others.

Achilles said...

Greg Q said...

Um, you have an amazing ability to get things exactly backwards.

Nothing every stopped to men, or two women, from "marrying" each other.

What we, rightly, prevented was those two people demanding that the gov't celebrate and regularize their "marriage".

What we, rightly, prevented was governments forcing decent human beings to participate in those fake "marriages". See Masterpiece Cakeshop. See Arlene's Flowers. See Memories Pizza

You want to talk about hatred? The, if you're honest, what you'll talk about is the hatred the Left has for anyone who denies the Left's dogmas.

Obergefell wasn't about allowing two men to "marry" each other. It was about forcing the rest of society to pretend it's a real marriage, and to give them all the benefits that society gives real marriages.



It is hard to sum up conservative stupidity on gay marriage any better than this.

You want government to define marriage based on results of democracy.

Then you get mad when the government defines it differently than you want it defined because democracy didn't go your way.

You want government to enforce your morality on others.

Then you get all huffy when someone else uses government to force their morality on you.

Jesus never said anything about government. err what...

SDaly said...

Mayor Pete casts the first stone. Potemkin new civility campaign theme hardest hit.

Robert Cook said...

"'He advised his disciples not to condemn anyone, given their own personal failings.'

"Not exactly. What he said was (paraphrasing): 'Don't judge others unless you're willing to be judged yourself.'

"In other words: Don't be a hypocrite."


Same thing. Because everyone is a hypocrite.

stevew said...

May I suggest a "No True Scotsman" tag for this post?

Achilles said...

Roy Jacobsen said...
Achilles said...
The central point Jesus wanted to make is Christians need to hate gay people and ban gay marriage using the government. Some oblique quote proves it.

Once again, believing that [fill in the blank] is immoral IS NOT THE SAME THING AS "hating" people who do [fill in the blank.]

But it would appear that, since you keep repeating it, that lie is all you have.


It is fine to think something is immoral.

It becomes hate when you want to justify the use of the government as a weapon against said activity because it is immoral.

Pianoman said...

"Same thing. Because everyone is a hypocrite."

Jesus DIDN'T say that.

I guess that means it's not true. Right?

Achilles said...

Jeff said...
Progressives are the modern Puritans. That's been painfully obvious for a long time.

Progressives and Conservatives take turns using the government to push their morality on other people.

It has never been different.

Pianoman said...

"Progressives and Conservatives take turns using the government to push their morality on other people."

Control freaks are on both sides of the political aisle. There's just more of them on the Prog side these days.

Robert Cook said...

"In the same way, the point of what he said to the rich young ruler wasn't that rich people are wicked, or that we should take their stuff and redistribute it."

No, he was saying they (rich people) should take their wealth and give it away to to others. If "we" (others) took it away, it would not demonstrate that the wealthy were willing to follow and love Christ and enter the kingdom of Heaven. That burden lies with with the wealthy who claim their love for Christ.

Robert Cook said...

"'Same thing. Because everyone is a hypocrite.'

"Jesus DIDN'T say that."


Sure he did. It's implicit in his admonishment.

MayBee said...

> BleachBit-and-Hammers said...
OK - why is it *wink and nod* if we all know Obama is a bogus Christian, but Trump doesn't get the same ?


Ha! No kidding! Do you remember how people would be hounded to answer that they agreed that Obama was Christian? Joe Lieberman got chased down by him on the floor of the Senate for saying something like, "Obama says he is Christian and that's enough for me".
If aGOP candidate had said this about Obama, every single GOP candidate would be made to refute it. And that isn't hypothetical. That happened.
THe press in this country is so awful.

Pianoman said...

@Cook: "No, he was saying they (rich people) should take their wealth and give it away to to others."

At last -- something we agree on.

I'll go further and say: People should take their wealth and VOLUNTARILY give it away to others.

THAT is true charity.

Andrew Carnegie said you should spend the first third of your life getting a much education as you can, the second third of your life making as much money as you can, and then the last third of your life giving it all away.

mockturtle said...

No, he was saying they (rich people) should take their wealth and give it away to to others.

Actually, no, he was saying it to that particular young man "because he had great wealth' which he esteemed more than God.

Pianoman said...

"Jesus DIDN'T say that."

Sure he did. It's implicit in his admonishment.

Bible scholars will disagree with you here. What's "implicit" is that Jesus is calling out the hypocrites, not that he's accusing EVERYONE of hypocrisy.

It's interesting that you interpret this scripture in such a horrible manner.

Paul Zrimsek said...

Since these are politicians, we need to add:

6-- You're mistaking yourself for God.

Achilles said...

Pianoman said...
"Progressives and Conservatives take turns using the government to push their morality on other people."

Control freaks are on both sides of the political aisle. There's just more of them on the Prog side these days.

Truth.

One of the great things about Trump leading the Republican Party is he has supported gay marriage for as long as I have.

The republican party finally has to recognize that there are things more important than banning gay people and pushing morality on others.

One of the biggest blocks of Trumps support are the evangelicals. There has been a sea change in the protestant community and the importance of morality in government.

Policies matter most now.

This post has been a rear guard action. It is time to put a stake through the heart of the government morality crusade. A steak would work too.

SDaly said...

He advised his disciples not to condemn anyone, given their own personal failings.

And after the resurrection, Jesus gave the apostles the power and authority to grant or withhold forgiveness for sins, which would seem to involve some measure of judging and/or condemning.

Francisco D said...

Cookie,

Do you see any difference between ridiculing people's religious beliefs and attacking their sexual preferences?

I don't.

Henry said...

Jesus said different things at different times.

"The devil can cite scripture for his purposes."

William Shakespeare said that.

Rick said...

You want government to define marriage based on results of democracy.

Then you get mad when the government defines it differently than you want it defined because democracy didn't go your way.


Democracy didn't change the definition of marriage, the courts did against the will of Americans. An interesting comparison for Dems / lefties who claim we should eliminate the Electoral College because it can produce results different from pure Democracy.

mockturtle said...

Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who turn darkness to light and light to darkness, who replace bitter with sweet and sweet with bitter. Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes and clever in their own sight.… Isaiah 5:20,21.

Henry said...

Pianoman said...
It's interesting that you interpret this scripture in such a horrible manner.

This thread is the worst bible school ever.

Pianoman said...

@Henry: LMAO

you owe me a new keyboard ..

Achilles said...

SDaly said...
He advised his disciples not to condemn anyone, given their own personal failings.

And after the resurrection, Jesus gave the apostles the power and authority to grant or withhold forgiveness for sins, which would seem to involve some measure of judging and/or condemning.

This was absolutely not in character. Was he saying the apostles were not sinners and should start casting stones?

It is really hard to sort the truth in a 2000+ year old historical account. All we have are the words and writings of people in the end.

Granting this power seems completely opposite of everything else Jesus said.

Revelations is another suspect bunch of words.

Everything the Catholic Church has done has been humans twisting the words of Jesus.

mockturtle said...

Cookie: Did you know that nearly everything Jesus said is from the Old Testament? And he wasn't plagiarizing. He was demonstrating its fulfillment.

Henry said...

mockturtle -- that's probably the verse Pete should have quoted when asked about Trump.

It's a catch-22. Anyone who uses scripture against someone else condemns themselves.

Bob Boyd said...

Shorter Buttigieg: I'm just the guy our party needs to win back the stupid hypocrites who voted for Trump.

gahrie said...

In short, Trump is no better than homosexuals--or homosexuals are no worse than Trump--in terms of their sexual "immorality."

No one said they were. In fact the converse was precisely my point.

Wa St Blogger said...

Actually, no, he was saying it to that particular young man "because he had great wealth' which he esteemed more than God.

Mockturtle captures it correctly. Beware of taking individual snippets of the Bible too literally. As I see throughout this thread, people are quoting texts, often out of local context and generally out of context with the whole Biblical narrative to suit their own view. They start with a position and then find the passages that support that presupposition. Or, in some cases use the argument from silence to bolster their position.

The short parable about the rich young ruler can be more generally seen in context with other such lessons. To enter the kingdom of God, you must put God ahead of all other things. you must put your life on a difficult path where you put God's way ahead of your own, even to denying yourself those things which you desire. Where your treasure is, there will be your heart. It means that when you put something above God you are committing sin (sin being defined as rebellion against God.) So it is not the act, it is the heart that matters. Following all the commandments was not enough. Putting God second was the failure.

What saves one is not one's sin or lack of sin, but one's realization that God is supreme and giving up all your treasures to Him.

So, is Trump saved? Only God knows. His sins do not define his salvation, only his willingness to attempt to follow God's will. We can only guess at his actions to determine if he is sinning out of personal failure as all of us do, or if he simply pays lip service.

But we can't see into his heart and we are wrong to say we can.

Oso Negro said...

I would like to see someone interview "Mayor Pete" on his practice of homosexuality, as it seems to be a main feature of his attraction for Democrats.

Mayor Pete -
"At what age did you first have sex with another man?"
"Did you save your anus for marriage? or have pre-marital sex?"
"Are you a top or a bottom?"
"When did you suck your first dick?"
"What do you think about the issue of hebephilia in the gay community?"
"Have you ever visited a bath house?"
"Have you ever been treated for an STD?"

His answers could be inspirational.


Robert Cook said...

"It's interesting that you interpret this scripture in such a horrible manner."

Horrible? Not at all. Simply a recognition of reality.

Do you think we can infer Jesus meant, "Those of you who are without sin are free to condemn others for their sins"? No, as he knew we are all sinners and therefore, any of us who renders a judgement about others is a hypocrite. He was saying no one is in a position to judge others.

Robert Cook said...

"So, is Trump saved?"

I'll own my hypocrisy and say, unquestionably, no.

SGT Ted said...

Democrats criticizing the religious sincerity of anybody else is simply bullshit on stilts.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

I would like to see someone interview Trump on his promiscuity and sexual proclivities, as it seems to be a main feature of his attraction for Republicans.

How many times did you cheat on your wives?
How many times did you have unprotected sex and then go home to your wife?
How many times did you say inappropriate things about your own daughter?

Just a few for starters.

«Oldest ‹Older   1 – 200 of 347   Newer› Newest»