She's distinguishing herself, and she needs to — having languished at the bottom of polls.
She's also the only presidential candidate calling for the impeachment of Trump, as far as I've been able to see. From "How 2020 Democrats Are Gaming Out Trump Impeachment Quandary" (NYT):
Senator Elizabeth Warren, who has worked for months to find traction in a crowded Democratic presidential primary, stepped forward on Friday with a call to arms: President Trump must be impeached.So they're being super-bland but promising to thwack Trump with a blunt instrument later. Noted. He thwacks back, though, you know. Bigly.
What followed, generally, was conspicuous silence.... After sidestepping the explosive issue of impeachment for months by citing the inquiry by the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, most of the other 17 Democratic presidential candidates have responded to the special counsel’s report with tentative remarks about impeaching Mr. Trump, demands for the unredacted Mueller findings, calls for further hearings or attempts to simply change the subject.
Anything, that is, to avoid clearly answering the question of whether lawmakers should remove the president from office....
The Democratic contenders see the Mueller report mostly as a way to build their fund-raising and supporter lists and, ultimately, as a 448-page blunt instrument best used for thwacking the president in next year’s campaign for his behavior.
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218 comments:
1 – 200 of 218 Newer› Newest»Why stop there? Shouldn't everyone get a mansion and a sports car too? Shouldn't everyone live forever? Shouldn't everyone never have to feel bad?
Fuck student loan debt...I want my golden unicorn!!
Free Stuff!!!!
I would support this, if the universities who got paid all this high tuition had to pay it back to the taxpayer.
TANSTAAFL
Warren is pathetic. Everyone knows she's just saying whatever she can to get elected and doesn't mean any of it.
I want a pony Liz! Where's my pony?
She's also the only presidential candidate calling for the impeachment of Trump, as far as I've been able to see.
And that will help her with the extremists. But if she wins the nomination it will help Trump beat her like a tom-tom in the general.
Heap bilagáana she.
I want a new white steel roof put on my barn, and I want one NOW!
Is any legislation needed to make her dream of forgiving college loans a reality? Asking for my ex-wife.
"That’s why I’m calling for something truly transformational — the cancellation of up to $50,000 in student loan debt for 42 million Americans."
Just wave a magic wand and make it disappear? Bad idea. VERY bad idea. The piper must be paid. Who's going to do it?
(Hint: it's not going to be the government. The government doesn't pay for anything.)
Democrats Platform:
1) Open Borders - Invite the world. 40 million Zulus? Why not?
2) Free college for everyone!
3) Medicare for All!
4) No Tariffs. If American Industry dies, it dies.
5) Taxes? Taxes? We don't need no stinking taxes.
Make the loans dischargable in bankruptcy, with the schools underwriting.
Problem solved!
She should just get to peak giveaway and offer free long life with lots of money & sex. I get the feeling that's what Dem voters are really holding out for.
Transformational, indeed...
What a wearisome wielder of worn-out words is Warren.
75% of the country will never attend college but they are supposed to pay in full for the other 25%? And take a trillion dollar hit on the national debt?
...the 2020 reboot will star Elizabeth Warren in the role of Stormy Daniels, thwacking Trump with a rolled-up copy of the Mueller Report...
What if I just spent the last three years working 6 jobs to pay off my student loans. Is EW going to refund me?
The Left is hysterical.
They give all this free money to students to go to college, encouraging all this debt, teaching them all these worthless leftwing garbage, that makes them unemployable in the real world, so they get barrista jobs with Howie Schultz at Starbucks, and live either at home in the parents basement or in cramped studio apartments, with roommates, supporting Bernie Sanders, and now......NO MORE DEBT!
We are freeing you from the indentured servitude shackles that we placed on you!
The DNA thing was fatal for her,. She is rapidly approaching ambient temperature.
Forget beer. She needs to smoke some weed on camera.
She is not likable. She never has a positive message; everything is negative. She consistently focuses on what is wrong with this country, what is bad. Never the good. She will never overcome the Native American ethnicity fiasco.
And, she will never be president.
Warren's best shot would have been 2016, but that horse's head in her bed probably made her rethink.
Make the loans dischargable in bankruptcy, with the schools underwriting.
@Carol, that's how it originally was for student loans, but it was abused. It was common practice back in the day for med school and law school students to take on large amounts of student loan debt, declare bankruptcy back when they were starting out on their careers and not yet making much money, then sit back and rake in large incomes with their student loan debt discharged via their bankruptcy. All perfectly legal.
The best idea I have seen is that you can pay off your student load debt via national service -- be a park ranger, join the military, work at clinics on Indian reservations, something like that -- with some fixed amount debt discharged ($30,000 was the figure I saw but there's lots of room for debate) per year of service. Four years of being a soldier discharges $120,000 of student loan debt. The devil's in the details but it seems promising.
This at a time when what we really need to do is stop tells young people that going to college is the key to happiness and wealth. Convert half the colleges to community colleges that teach marketable skills. As for the ones that are left, they’re principally used for indoctrination in left-wing ideology, let the wingers pay for them.
And yes allow student debt to be discharged in bankruptcy, with the losses to be covered by a charge against the college that failed to provide value for the tuition dollars.
Sure, and you and Darth Soros pay for it out of your own pockets--right, Sacagawea?
"work at clinics on Indian reservations"
She'll want to stay away from that one.
Make the colleges guarantee the student debt. If the kid doesn't repay it, make the college repay it.
She should come out in favor of reparations for Native Americans.
Far be it for anyone to question why paying your own way was quite doable not so long ago.
Nah...go to an expensive brick and mortar so you can "learn to code" (if women's studies ain't up yer alley).
No disconnect there..nosirreee.
That's very appealing to the 420 and Doritos crowd.
Big voters that they are.
Ya, we can just wait her out at this point. No need to debate the proposal...
"If I offer more wampum then I will be more popular among the dirty people whose votes I need."
You want transformational? Transform the cost of college, not who pays for it.
Any college that wants federal grants or loans must offer online classes for at least 3/4 of the needed undergrad courses, at no more than $200 per course.
The technology already exists to do this, and if done at a large scale the fixed costs are trivial per student, and the biggest marginal cost is the cost of grading things which must be graded by hand. Most of which can be done by TAs making $15 per hour
I have an acquaintance that worked 5years on the res for a school loan forgiveness. He was a primary care doctor so that was the only way to get out from under the loans affordably.
DEFINITION
election: an advance auction of stolen goods
She has the "hot mess" thing going on.
If she were 40 years younger, guys would love her.
Wait! I have another idea
give everyone $1000 month
Illegal aliens too
"Universal" is code for "The Tax payer, you are fucked."
BTW, I'd be all for raiding the endowments of the wealthiest top few hundred colleges to underwrite some of the 1.whatever trillion in student loan debt. I realize that it may only pay off perhaps a 3rd of it, but it's a start.
And really this give away does nothing to help the lower classes of society. This is upper and upper middle class cat nip.
I hope there's money in the Universal Kitty to pay for all Illegal Entrants to Have a FREE life of Free everything. It's only fair.
Notice that this is NOT a plan for a free college education.
It is a plan for government monopoly on college educations, that is, even more intense government indoctrination.
Wait, another idea just hit!
reparations and UBI
give $1000 month average
but $500 to whites and asians
and $1500 to blacks and latinos
and then tear down the existing border walls
give driver license to illegals
and have motor voter, mail in ballots picked up by party members, and same day registration
felons and 16 year olds vote
heck, do away with election judges - just TTP - Trust The People
California Uber Alles
This is transformation in the same way Venezuela was transformed by socialism.
In Europe, where college is "free", it is far from universal. It's rationed pretty tightly. That's the side of free you never hear about.
"And yes allow student debt to be discharged in bankruptcy, with the losses to be covered by a charge against the college that failed to provide value for the tuition dollars."
"Indian givers!" cry the schools.
Big Mike:
The nonsense story you read in the papers about doctors and lawyers declaring bankruptcy all the time was a lie.
Fewer than 1% actually did that.
The press... get this!... lies to you.
It's revealing the so called moderate Dems are appealing to the extreme left. It's almost like they know where the votes are.
The hit on the Treasury is here, and we need to think about ow to handle it.
Many, if not most, students have no intention of paying off their loans - even if they could, and I suspect that many can't - victims of the public school system, they had no idea of what numbers mean, especially with compound interest and stuff, and just what they theoretically had signed up for.
So, Elizabeth Warren demands a massive subsidy to America's elite at the (implicit) expense of the working class.
And, just you watch, she'll still get called a "progressive" and "populist".
He didn't collude with Russia - Hillary did. But please, we must hand it all to Hillary anyway.
ARe you willing to step aside for Hillary, white Indian Lizzy?
In Europe, where college is "free", it is far from universal. It's rationed pretty tightly. That's the side of free you never hear about.
Step two is to call rationing racist.
Europe has a more effective bureaucracy than we do because they are willing to accept these types of restrictions. Largely because of our racial history we cannot and eventually, because of their mass immigration, they will devolve to our level on that.
Free Universal Tesla's for rich white liberals!
Liquidate her entire estate to make the first contribution to the program's budget.
Warren's a squirrel to distract you people
That word "free." It's so outrageous because it's so untrue.
There's always a cost. The only issue is: who bears the cost.
So now the other candidates must distinguish themselves.
This one has it down.
"The entire cost of my broad debt cancellation plan and universal free college is more than covered by my Ultra-Millionaire Tax — a 2% annual tax on the 75,000 families with $50 million or more in wealth."
So kick in an extra $1M for every $50M in wealth, sounds fair. Since the dividend yield on the S&P 500 is 1.9%, Warren's wealth tax at first seems equivalent to a 105% income tax rate for Ultra-Millionaire families with their wealth in the stock market. But on the basis of the 10% total return to be expected from stocks, it's only a 20% rate, comparable to the capital gains tax rate.
When looked at that way, might it be a more sensible tax policy to tax wealth instead of capital gains? That is how real estate taxes work. And why not extend the full public disclosure of real estate taxes to property taxes.
You went to trade school? SUCKER! Gonna tax you to pay the poetry major's 135K debt. And you are still deplorable you uneducated hick.
This sort of proposal will get her literally nothing- it will just push the other candidates to one-up her. The Democrat nominee will have a hard time veering back to the center come November 2020.
If I could have my business debt paid by the taxpayers, I could give a lot of young poor people badly needed jobs and training. Isn't that more important than forgiving some well off young person so they can buy more weed for the fraternity party this week?
I heard that Stormfront is supporting Warren and Butt-egg-egg.
I think it has something to do with Warren producing a video showing her beating young women who look like they live on the track in a "marathon" type foot race. They must think she has superior genes.
Butt-egg-egg, I can't guess.
tax on the 75,000 families with $50 million or more in wealth
Which of course is a direct tax, a per capita tax, imposed on the person and not on any activity, such as income.
And which, of course, is unconstitutional.
"No capitation tax shall be laid, unless in proportion to the census or enumerations herein before directed to be taken." -- Art. I, Section 9.
Unhappy cat wants you in debt forever.
@Birkel, I would like to see proof of your assertion about only 1% abusing student loans. (I believe your assertion that the press lies.)
Less easy to determine: what is the level of abuse we should be willing to accept? 1%? 10%? If we accept 1% can we stop the abuse below 20%?
Shouldn't paying off student debt come out of the pockets of the people who benefited from defrauding those students, i.e., educators' and administrators' pensions and school endowments?
Has any of these 'free college' proposals indicated how they will deal with your first amendment?
That is, will it be only government or 'secular' colleges which will be free, as per 'progressive' reading of "shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion", or will all colleges be included as per "prohibiting the free exercise thereof".
In other words, will there be 'choice' or will it just be 'progressives' imposing themselves even more and in the process stealing some more, or better, a lot more tax-money.
A great way to reduce College costs is to start firing all the administrative bureaucrats who work for big mega-bucks inside the colleges themselves. They are all democratics, so it's never going to happen. - That's why the tax payer fool must pay.
Current out of pocket estimates for California public colleges, with no financial assistance.
Cal State Universities - @$24K, of which >50% is room&board
UC System - @$36K, of which <50% is room&board, though this varies a lot.
(and UC costs are a subject dear to my heart)
What this would do in CA is create enormously more demand for State U. It is free room&board for four years, at least. Welfare for 18-23-year-olds.
Since getting into (most) State U's requires nothing much more than breathing, this will do nothing to improve education.
How badly is Warren doing?
Seth Moulton decided to get into the race.
He wouldn't do that if he thought Liz had a real shot.
Heck, let's pay off all the mortgages and car notes too!
Next up: Reparations for Cherokees!
" So they're being super-bland but promising to thwack Trump with a blunt instrument later. Noted. He thwacks back, though, you know. Bigly." He also uses sharp instruments.
Reaching back into her cultural history, Warren's plan mandates colleges and universities only charge the government-determined rate in beads, beaver pelts and buffalo meat.
Elite high schools respond with AP Beaver Trapping and Rodent Identification courses to boost their ability to pay.
Inner city youth, least able to trap beaver due to removal of native species by white urban planners, lobby extensively for a squirrel equivalent.
On June 9, 2023, after extended Congressional debate, the rate is set at two squirrels and one pigeon per beaver.
The woman is just a common whore.
@Buwaya,
Current out of pocket estimates for California public colleges, with no financial assistance.
Cal State Universities - @$24K, of which >50% is room&board
UC System - @$36K, of which <50% is room&board, though this varies a lot.
(and UC costs are a subject dear to my heart)
Ahh, memories, from the corners of my mind.....
Yeah, when I went to un-named famous UC school, tuition was $1,300/year. Most of my pals and I earned it (easily) during the summer.
Rent was cheap too -- we usually had 2 guys to a room (Maybe, $300/month for room/board). Books were $100/Quarter.
Also, the girls were real pretty and smart. And most of them were either apolitical or conservative in nature. And they'd loved to dance, dine, drink and party on weekends. Very few hippie chicks.
Did I mention that the econ department was filled with Reaganites? I can honestly say that the professors were 50-50 (liberal/conservatives). The liberal ones were in classes that didn't matter, so I mostly ignored them. Only a few got overly political.
To recap what college was 35 years ago:
1. Inexpensive
2. Good education
3. Hot smart chicks
I am not joking here - that's the truth, Ruth.
@Left Bank of the Charles -- Excellent response. However...
One complication is that a great deal of wealth, especially for well off, is in assets.
Let's assume a 2% tax on wealth on everyone, not just the super wealthy. If you are an average upper-income American -- one with a 401K and a house -- most of your wealth isn't fungible. If you have, for example, $300,000 of equity in your house and $700,000 in retirement funds, that 2% tax is $20,000. Every single year.
How is that cash going to be realized?
The first order of business will be to tailor the tax law so it only applies to non-retirement assets, and second homes, etc. And that, of course, will mean the rebirth of tax shelters.
I would be embarrassed by her if I was a supporter. You are telling me that I should vote for you so that you can steal money from other Americans and give it to me? And you think I'm OK with that? Man, you really don't think much of me do you?
Would Lori Loughlin get a refund?
How badly is Warren doing?
It depends on what her goal is. Consider reparations. It's been rejected thousands of times over 150 years but if the issue is kept alive long enough it will become a standard demand of the party and from that point it's just a matter of time.
Similarly Warren advocates "free" tuition which will eventually become a serious legislative effort for Dems. If it gets through it's a financial windfall for university faculty and administrators who just happen to be overwhelmingly left wing.
In either case the goal is to fund left wing constituencies with taxpayer money.
gspencer, 11:04:
"That word 'free.' It's so outrageous because it's so untrue."
Yes. I keep trying to differentiate "free" from "paid for at enormous expense by someone else," but it's a rear-guard action.
"If there had been any formidable body of cannibals in the country [Truman] would have promised to provide them with free missionaries, fattened at the taxpayers’ expense."
- H. L. Mencken
I paid full price for three private college tuitions. Close to three quarters of a million dollars. Can I call it a loan? And get repaid?
Or, we can address the diverse causes of progressive prices, return to education on a student budget, and stop passing the green-back.
It's insulting that all the democratics are essentially attempting to buy votes. Is it any wonder they want 16 year olds to vote.
I don’t know why Liz is trying to outdo Bernie.
This is his schtick. Free college. That way administrators like his wife can collect six-figure paychecks for running a college into the ground and out of business.
College for Sanders and Warren and the Left are patronage jobs for those who run the re-education camps.
The government-university complex.
If we have to pay reparations for black folks, and then repay college debt for college folks, that would be a pretty big number.
But it's also unfair to gays, transgenders, women, hispanics and other groups.
The next Dem proposal will be more inclusive, and less discriminatory: Pay everyone $100,000 for a government job. Then, they will have plenty of money to buy Starbucks coffees, ITunes, Uber rides and other stuff.
What's wrong with that?!!?
LOL,
This will go over well with the Blue Collar guys and the unions. She is one, dumb, looney
Well, that would be another $1,300,000,000,000 down the drain.
We can't afford NOT to do it. It's free!
Big Mike,
I am confident in the claim that fewer than 1% of doctors and lawyers were declaring bankruptcy.
I generally avoid homework assignments, on kinda sorta principle.
Maybe college nowadays should be free. After all, you're supposed to get what you pay for...
I knew if I ignored those collection notices from 1971 on, this would all turn out right. Thank you, Senator Warren and thank you, America! It's free!
It is in the Bible. It's called the Year of Jubilee. I knew Leviticus was good for SOMETHING!
Who knew Warren was a Bible scholar as well as a sachem?
I bet she has some good ideas from the Koran, too.
2019 and 2020 will be full of blessings with this crowd on display. I want Biden and Buttigieg go into the back room and see what emerges.
Not really a giveaway to upper middle class people. I think I read that it would be for households making under $100,000. That’s not that much money, particularly on the coasts.
This will go over well with the Blue Collar guys and the unions. She is one, dumb, looney
They are no longer of any concern to Democrats. Ask Howard.
Can I get the money back that my Dad spent for my education? After all it was only 50 plus yrs ago. Or the money I spent for my advanced degrees? I did borrow some money as did my wife, but we paid it back. Can we get that back? Why not?
I know college is outlandishly expensive, but why should taxpayers pay for their stupidity, especially if they take more than four yrs to get their degree? Sounds more like reparations.
Low-income families who produce students capable of college don’t pay anything anyway so who is this actually for?
How about a lottery like this:
We currently let in about 1 Million legal immigrants a year. They pay virtually nothing to get in.
Let's put one half of those immigration slots into a lottery in which 500,000 college students win one slot each which they can sell to help pay for their college.
I estimate they could get at least $50,000 each from the highest bidders.
Of course, this would screw up the diversity lottery and chain migration fubar but at least it would help a bunch of our college students pay for college.
And it would not cost the taxpayers anything - hell Amazon would probably offer to auction off the immigration slots for a small cut of thew action.
If the Dems were a wedding band, they'd have a two-song repertoire:
1. "More Free Stuff!"; and
2. "You're a Racist!"
And it would be a really long wedding -- and you'd have to listen to it, over and over and over and over again.
Bernie's encore: "Billionaires are Bad!" might be a refreshing change of pace.
Man, as usual I did it all wrong and got my graduate degrees (and an extra degree's-worth of grad courses 'cause it was fun) by using the employee discount program at my ESU alma mater/employer.
A former colleague, on the other hand, got his MLS and PhD with loans, and is resigned to never buying a house, never having a decent car . . . etc, until he pays off the mortgage-sized debt, which may take him past retirement.
I believe it was Socrates who noted that once knowledge becomes a commodity, there is a never-ending spiral of incentives to keep it hidden and expensive.
Narr
Our universities are good at hiding--especially from themselves--the knowledge that most of what they do is nonsense
I knew that if a hung in there that gender studies degree and the time in the feminist drum circle and dance klatch would come right. I was only $150,000 down. It's free! Now I can use my right name again.
I'm tossing my hat in the ring. My platform: Whatever Elizabeth Warren promises, plus a pony.
If I ever try to rob a bank, my note will say: " I'm trying something truely transformational, and I have a gun."
They'll know what I mean.
College administrators exist to collect data.
The data they collect is mostly meaningless.
But it is required by federal and state bureaucrats.
Therefore, the answer is to eliminate the bureaucrats.
BTW, the Democratics created those agencies to keep a lot of Democratic constituents employed.
Getting rid of them will improve the universities, reduce government spending, cut institutional donations to Democratics, and reallocate wasted resources to productive ends.
Mitt Romney would never vote to get rid of the Department of Education.
Fuck Mitt Romney.
Pants is absolutely right and this applies to health care, too. Earning money is evil and people who earn money must be penalized. To the Max!
If Warren gets her way, professors can tell their students: "If not for the Democrats, you couldn't afford to be here in this class, and would have to be out there looking for a job against the worst unemployment since back before Trump."
The bidding war for handouts heats up! A Mercedes in every pot!
A friend of mine just paid off his son's last college tuition payment. He said he will go Full Rambo if they forgive college debt. And he's got the weapons to do it too.
Carol said...
Make the loans dischargable in bankruptcy, with the schools underwriting.
Problem solved!
4/22/19, 10:03 AM
Bullshit. Under Obama, the federal government nationalized the student loan program. The federal government is already on the hook for these loans. There is absolutely no reason to forgive or ameliorate these loans. And with the continued death of the middle class, especially in the well-below replacement rate of children of the middle class, colleges will be falling like leaves in the not-distant future. Who will you hold accountable then?
"Warren's a squirrel to distract you people"
From which other squirrel? Squirrels and nuts are all the Donks have left...
As I've went through life, I've wanted a lot of things. I've always told myself, if you can't afford it, don't buy it.
Well she is an expert in bankruptcy.
From which other squirrel?
LOL. From a haystack of squirrels.
A trillion dollars here, a trillion dollars there...pretty soon, you're talking real money...!
A chicken in every pot. Worked for Hoover.
I think desperate is the right word to describe Warren's campaign. If the flagging continues her calls for, whatever, will become more shrill and frantic, furthering the erosion of her support.
It's over Liz, go back to your cushy Senator job (though as a MA resident I wish she wouldn't).
Before forgiving existing debt shouldn't Warren move to curtail new student debt going forward?
Big Mike
The best idea I have seen is that you can pay off your student load debt via national service -- be a park ranger, join the military, work at clinics on Indian reservations, something like that.
Bad idea. If you perform national service without incurring student debt you loose? Same equity and moral hazard problems as with blanket forgiveness.
Pay a competitive, taxable wage to everyone who qualifies for a job and let them spend it how they wish.
Firewater.
Several years after the ex-wife and I split, the first of three children were about to enter college. Thankfully, back in those days, the supporting ex-husband (me) was not obligated to underwrite a college education.
I told each child regarding college costs: I will pay 1/3, your mom would a 1/3 and you will pay 1/3. I wanted them to have skin in the game. The kids all worked their butts off every summer. Worked out pretty well. It certainly helped this occurred before college costs went into orbit.
When we have a lot of people who think that the parents should pay for their adult offspring's college education, to the extent of shelling out hundreds of thousands of dollars, it is only one small (and natural) step for that paternalistic attitude to be transferred to government.
Would-be Rambos who have themselves infantilized their adult progeny need to look in the mirror.
How long until we start hearing calls for free retirement homes/hospice care?
I suspect CNN's viewership works as a proxy for Warren voters.
As I've went through life, I've wanted a lot of things. I've always told myself, if you can't afford it, don't buy it.
Me too. Apparently, we're suckers.
Dischargeable debt through bankruptcy is one option. The creditors and consumers should assume the risk of the loans. A triage system to increase availability and reduce costs is another. Then address the diverse forcings of progressive prices (PP). Perhaps a free education to professionals with tangible benefits (e.g. doctor) and a requirement that they they serve the People in their respective occupation for some period. And, or, we can resolve PP, to the benefit of the People, our Posterity, and mitigation of progressive corruption.
@Henry
"Let's assume a 2% tax on wealth on everyone, not just the super wealthy."
Why subject everyone to the wealth tax? It's not wealth if you're not wealthy.
"If you are an average upper-income American -- one with a 401K and a house -- most of your wealth isn't fungible. If you have, for example, $300,000 of equity in your house and $700,000 in retirement funds, that 2% tax is $20,000. Every single year. How is that cash going to be realized?"
It should be observed that real estate taxes are 1% to 2% every single year in most parts of the United States. Ordinary people, including relatively poor people, come up with the cash to pay those taxes. Why not the super wealthy on their other assets?
Perhaps, in the interests of federalism, we might consider some type of credit for state and local real estate taxes against the wealth tax, if the super wealthy really need that to make ends meet.
When my late husband had to go into a skilled nursing facility, we had to pay out of pocket [$8K/month] because we had--gasp!--assets. Those who didn't have assets got Medicaid to pay the whole thing. So, yeah, maybe we are suckers to work hard, stay out of debt and save money.
@LBOFTC -- People love to gripe about real estate taxes. I think a "first home exemption" is probably a necessity for such a tax, even for the super wealthy.
I personally don't like the idea of funding a hugely costly program on a narrow tax base, which is why I threw the ordinarily wealthy into the mix.
Mark asserts: When we have a lot of people who think that the parents should pay for their adult offspring's college education, to the extent of shelling out hundreds of thousands of dollars, it is only one small (and natural) step for that paternalistic attitude to be transferred to government.
Would-be Rambos who have themselves infantilized their adult progeny need to look in the mirror.
Mark, I agree. It pains me to hear working class parents tell of spending their retirement funds on their kids' college fees.
Why subject everyone to the wealth tax?
"No capitation tax shall be laid, unless in proportion to the census or enumerations herein before directed to be taken." -- Art. I, Section 9.
'Wealthy' is anyone who has more assets than you and I do. Amiright?
People love to gripe about real estate taxes.
That's because with taxes on real estate, there is no such thing as private ownership of property. Instead, we are all tenants of the government under a quasi-feudalistic system. And if you fail to pay your annual rent, i.e. "taxes," the government as true owner will seize that property and eject you from the premises.
There were 7 young-ins [28-39 years old] at my Easter gathering yesterday. Each of the 7 had at least a masters degree: 1 in nursing who is also getting herself a degree in Nurse Practitioner, 4 in teaching, 1 in finance and 1 in bio-medical engineering who graduates from med school next month.
None of them squawk about college debt, a few have paid their debts off completely and I know all would be furious if the govt forgave all college debts.
I know of more than a few people who, despite owning their home outright, cannot afford to live in it.
Real estate taxes have the effect of preventing a large proportion of lower/working class people from owning their own homes, with only the wealthy being able to own, because of the need to large sums of liquid assets to pay the taxes.
The first round of federal college subsidies, the guaranteed student loan programs, ignited the stratospheric inflation of the cost of college.
Those programs created a slush fund for administrators. So, of course, the admins looted the slush fund and dumped the bill on kids.
Clearly, another round of federal college subsidies is what is needed. (Do I need to attach a sarcasm tag?)
Why should tradesmen and shop clerks subsidize degrees in Feminist Dance Therapy at Evergreen State?
(1)Loans contingent on marketable degrees(think of a business plan).
(2)Loans dischargeable in bankruptcy.
(3)Schools extending the loans co-sign the loans.
(4)Schools with pattern/excessive defaults face penalties/debarment.
///
alanc709 is the only one who dug up the buried lede:
Under Obama, the federal government nationalized the student loan program. The federal government is already on the hook for these loans. There is absolutely no reason to forgive or ameliorate these loans.
There are no other guaranteed student loans since July 2010. So WHO is burdening people with debt bondage in order to go to college? The same people claiming they will protect us from it, currently own the entire problem and have for nine years.
As of 2015 the entire portfolio of direct loans was $1 trillion.
That wealth was transferred from the taxpayer by the government to the higher education industry.
By "canceling" them Warren is just leaving the taxpayer on the hook for them. It's not just free college, but retroactively free college, for anyone who took out student loans in the last 9 years.
Universal Free College: So far nobody's mentioned the Service Academies or ROTC. Great way to earn one's MD without 8 years of loans piling up. Learn a trade, become a 90-Day Wonder. Skills for life!
I paid full freight for my kids' educations, meaning that I paid their actual tuition plus 100% of some other kid's and about 12% of a third kids (freshmen got grants that covered an average of 56% of their tuition, while only 12% pay full sticker price -http://money.com/money/4777909/private-college-scholarships-2017/).
Virtually all of that was paid in after-tax dollars. Now Warren wants me to pay for everyone else's tuition?
It's just like the black student whose high grades and intelligence got him/her into college or into a good career and then--boom!--the government gives every black person the same reward. Everybody gets a trophy. That sucks!
Fernandistein: Is that critter in your avatar the Green Nude Eel? It's kind of cute.
But not a cute as the lamb you had last week.
I hope the lamb wasn't eaten by the Green Nude Eel... come to think of it now, it has a green and hungry look.
The obvious solution to student debt is to have the colleges fund and collect it. That will burst the bubble right quick.
I Have Misplaced My Pants said...
Low-income families who produce students capable of college don’t pay anything anyway so who is this actually for?
Teachers and administrators. The benefits always go to those hired to manage the programs.
Not sure if it's been mentioned, but apparently parents are co-signing for school loans. A customer of mine did that for her son. Degree in hand, he cannot find a job.
It took me 7 years to get a Bachelors degree because I waited tables and sold shoes to pay my way, including an apartment in the city. Then I worked for a few years so that I could buy decent clothes and a car. My employer paid for a third of my Master's degree and the State of Illinois gave me an academic scholarship for a PhD program. I also worked as a TA at $7k per year to pay rent.
My ex-wife has the same story. We came from families that were not willing and able to help us gain academic credentials. We worked our asses off and lived extremely frugally to achieve our dreams.
I doubt if kids today can replicate what we did unless they get a great scholarship like my stepson or join the military. If the latter was my only option other than ruinous debt, that is what I would have done. When you are am adult, you make adult decisions and live with the consequences.
It is time to grow up kids!
How is this fair to someone who doesn't go to college? Should they be given the cash value that is paid to college grads for their loans in the interest of fairness. After all, they can expect to earn less over the course of their lifetime and as a bonus get to finance the college grads education. Unfair!
@Mark
That's a feature of the Blue State model. We've only lived in Red where even a minimum wage job could pay real estate taxes.
The biggest mistake I ever made in my whole misspent life was to cosign a college loan. I do not recommend it.
The biggest mistake I ever made in my whole misspent life was to cosign a college loan. I do not recommend it.
I don't recommend cosigning anything.
Most kids shouldn't be attending college right out of high school, anyway. They are too immature. They should work and/or join the military for a few years first.
Looks like Warren has decided her best play is to get to the left of everybody else.
And after she wins the nomination, hope for a miracle because she will be WAYYYY out there to the left of 70%+ of the electorate.
Fauxcohontas goes big! Now maybe she'll go home.
Narr
Hope springs eternal
Make the taxpayers pay for the indoctrination of the Red Guard that will destroy them.
Such a Marxist solution, like billing the family for the bullet used to execute their son.
Throw in a Cooper Mini and it's a deal!
Teach 'em all to code... wait H1Bs get the good jobs. Ummmm want fries with that?
Benefits, like taxation, are a means of control. There will be requirements. Americorps, Democrat Youth, who knows what else.
It's Warren's bid to tie up the barista vote. There must be millions of them.
By all measures, Cherokees (real or imagined) have succumbed to S-O-C-I-A-L-I-S-M!
Any plan that makes suckers of the responsible people who didn't take on extra debt and paid it off aggressively instead of letting it sit there and grow should be a non starter.
I like Q’s new game.
What a wacky, walleyed, wishy-washy, waxen, wearying, whiny witch.
Long ago there was an SNL skit written by and featuring Michael O'Donoghue as a radio call-in host. (Couldn't find it on Google) The skit was essentially O'Donoghue making a statement/declaration to generates calls with each statement more outrageous and eventually to something like "killing puppies". And still nothing.
That's Fauxcahontis in 2019.
SOMEONE PLEASE PAY ATTENTION TO ME!!!
Or how about this Far Side cartoon
TANSTAAFL.
"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch."
Or "free" universal college, either. SOMEONE has to pay for it, and Warren's pander-proposal would only shift the costs from the people who would benefit from it to the rest of the taxpayers, who would not. And what about technical schools, etc.? Shouldn't they also be "free"? What about apprenticeship programs and other forms of educational job training? Shouldn't they also be "free." And what if I, as a seasoned citizen, decide that I want to go back to school for some of this "free" college education? Would anyone who wanted to get in the wagon and let someone else pull it be eligible?
What mushy unprofessional language- ‘calling for’. I’m calling for free college. I’m calling for the House to impeach. Not only doesn’t she understand US taxation she doesn’t know about divided powers in the US system of government either.
Hundreds of thousands in subsidies for kids with rich parents to become doctors and lawyers. Bupkis for apprentice carpenters. Well, less than bupkis, taxes.
“We are going to build a class wall, and the deplorables are going to pay for it!”
Are the universities still going to be paid?
If so, instead of overcharging future protesters and Socialist voters
at rate increasing X rate of inflation
they can charge you...
With free college, higher ed would become the DMV. All classes would be taught by Adjuncts and be taught in 300 seat caverns. Research would slowly disappear. All admission standards and letter grades wold disappear. Like going to public universities in Mexico. Perhaps Warren proposes this because it would raise the amount Harvard could charge if it remained elite.
Oh, gee ... Warren's promising goodies using other people's money.
No one has ever done THAT before .....
We would need to take all the casinos away from the Indians to pay for this, why did blacks not get casinos?
Oh, gee ... Warren's promising goodies using other people's money.
No one has ever done THAT before .....
Understand this for what it is, beyond a bribe to the student and student loan debtor population . . . .
It's also a payoff to a favored constituency, namely, "Academia" - if College is "free," meaning "students don't pay," then academia is freed from any obligation to earn its keep - they become a "government program," and we all know a government program is the nearest thing to a perpetual motion machine / eternal life as will ever exist upon this earth.
OF COURSE the lefties in academia will love this - if college is "free," they're all permanently in all of our pockets, with no accountability.
The preferred locution is not "free" but "at no cost to you". Th term gets used a lot here in Vegas.
"'That’s why I’m calling for something truly transformational — the cancellation of up to $50,000 in student loan debt for 42 million Americans.'
"Just wave a magic wand and make it disappear? Bad idea. VERY bad idea. The piper must be paid. Who's going to do it?"
Why is it necessarily a bad idea? Tax Jubilees--in which governments erased debts to allow debtors to start over with a fresh slate--are common throughout history. Student loans are issued by the government, so the government would, in Warren's plan, would simply write down everything to "0".
Or, what might be preferable, simply transfer the required sum of money needed to pay off the loans from the War Department's budget. This allows people burdened with debt they cannot discharge in bankruptcy to get on with their lives, and we're wasting that much less money enriching arms pimps.
forget Warren-- Vote for Moe!
MOE FRIESHITT 2020 !!
Tax Jubilees--in which governments erased debts to allow debtors to start over with a fresh slate--are common throughout history
So are governments going bankrupt.
"'Tax Jubilees--in which governments erased debts to allow debtors to start over with a fresh slate--are common throughout history'
"So are governments going bankrupt."
One does not necessarily follow the other. Again, if Americans can't stomach the idea of simply writing off bad loan debts--something businesses do all the time--then simply take the needed funds from the War Department's budget to actually pay off the outstanding loans. Our War Department has orders of magnitude more funds than it needs or should have.
Our War Department has orders of magnitude more funds than it needs or should have.
Cookie, it hasn't been the "War Department" since 1943. Try to keep up. I know you want to surrender but about a quarter is pay and pensions.
The student loan fiasco needs to have colleges take a high haircut. Maybe half,.
Here’s an idea. Stop imposing so many useless regulations on colleges. Each regulation requires more administrators to ensure compliance, driving up tuition and putting students in debt for what seems like life.
Here’s another idea, put colleges on the hook for worthless degrees like sociology.
Unless people are donating the land, the buildings, professors their time, etc they shouldn’t be allowed to call it free college. It should be called something like we’re going to make someone else pay for your college so that you have just as much incentive to do well as you did in high school.
I hope that all of the people who paid for their own college are going to be made whole. I paid my tuition by working and took extra time for that reason.
Different colleges and universities charge different amounts. So if someone wants to go to an expensive college, is that allowed? I say, yes. But do it like Medicare. The student applies to the government for reimbursement and the government ... gives the student 50% or 40 or 30 % of what they asked for. Because all university fees everywhere should be the same. Calculus is calculus and so is poetry.
Or the gov could sometimes give nothing. They do that in medicine where they say the procedure isn't necessary. So the gov could say that Wisconsin only needs ten new journalists and disallow payments for everyone else after the first ten. The education the others want is not necessary since there will be no jobs here or elsewhere. CNN is dying even faster than local print media. Or the student could get on a list and get in journalism school in 5 years when his name works its way to the top.
So in this way the gov could reduce the cost of a university education, and also get rid of unneeded - or possibly unwanted - departments. Great stuff.
What could go wrong?
Most of our budget pays for entitlements - not the "war department".
Most of our budget pays for entitlements - not the "war department".
Indeed! Government pensions and health care are by far the two largest categories.
tcrosse @3:25 PM: Neither a sine'er nor a cosine'er be.
Else, you will find yourself triangulated, sooner or later.
We have a freshman in college now and planning to cover cost from our contributions, his work earnings, scholarships, and co-op jobs. Had not planned on taking loans. Now thinking that we’d be hedging our bets if we took out max loans for the next three years and banked the money in the event that there is loan forgiveness. If there isn’t, we would just pay off loans when he graduates. I sure that would be acceptable in the proposed programs. I am sure there is a flaw in there somewhere......
The term 'universal' is intriguing. Do other galaxies have any say in this?
Give them the following option: debt forgiveness in return for forfeiting the right to vote for thirty years. Or pay your freely incurred debt.
I see a compromise! Maybe we can agree to write off 1/1064 of the debt?
The term 'universal' is intriguing. Do other galaxies have any say in this?
NO! All other galaxies must obey and submit.. to the force.
She should name her VP running mate next. I think that could work.
Phidippus said...
tcrosse @3:25 PM: Neither a sine'er nor a cosine'er be.
Else, you will find yourself triangulated, sooner or later.
He cosine'd for her loan and she sine'd up for a nudist colony. All he got back was tangenitals.
Blogger The Vault Dweller said...
She should name her VP running mate next. I think that could work.
--
Nathan Phillips (Uncle Nate)
Robert Cook,
"Our War Department has orders of magnitude more funds than it needs or should have."
Orders of magnitude? Do you actually mean we could be kept safe on ≤1% of what we have, or am I taking you too literally?
Personally, I think trying to defend a country this rich, with this much land, on ~$6.8 billion per year would get a lot more expensive in a hurry. I'm open to the idea that the military budget is larger than it needs to be, but I dispute the idea, common on your side of the fence, that it is uniquely, or even unusually, inflated or wasteful relative to other federal spending.
I also think when our military budget is only as large as it needs to be, major wars become more likely. We seem to differ on this point. I am curious what you think of General Marshall's Nobel address.
Michael K, 7:05:
"it hasn't been the "War Department" since 1943."
No, but I'm all for changing it back. "Defense" feels euphemistic.
Democrat Platform 2020
1. Cancel college debt!
2, Impeach Trump!
3. Medicare for all!
4. Open Borders
5. Post birth abortion
6. Mandatory Same Sex marriage (just kidding)
7. Higher taxes
8. Green New Deal!
9. Abolish fossil fuels
10. Cut off aid to Israel
11, Increase Minimum Wage to $30/hour
12, Abolish Electoral College
13. Ban Hate Speech
14. All Transgender Military
15. Reparations!
16. Emoluments!
Democrat Platform 2020
0. Redistributive change
...
17. Progressive prices
18. Immigration reform
19. Diversity
20. Anti-nativism
21. Sexism
22. Genderism and corruption
23. Political congruence
24. Social justice and adventurism
25. Gerrymandered voting
26. Inferred crimes
27. Prophecy and Green Blight
28. Planned/Selective-child
29. Witch hunts and warlock trials
30. #HateLovesAbortion
Here's to monotonic divergence.
Reparations
It would have to include the native Americans, and their Posterity, who stood their ground and sacrificed blood and treasure to defeat slavery, involuntary exploitation and redistributive change, and have stood against diversity and other brands of bigotry.
Cook: "Our War Department has orders of magnitude more funds than it needs or should have."
Cook has no idea what he's talking about (like most Lefties). He thinks a C-1 unit comes battle-ready out of the box. He once called our troops "parasites" when serving in peacetime.
For that, I have made him my chew toy.
"Our War Department has orders of magnitude more funds than it needs or should have."
Clueless about the cost for the stability that is provided by the American military. "Orders of magnitude" - what - a factor of 10? 100? Picture a world where the U.S. military has a budget 10% of what it currently has.
wildswan,
"So if someone wants to go to an expensive college, is that allowed? I say, yes. But do it like Medicare. The student applies to the government for reimbursement and the government ... gives the student 50% or 40 or 30 % of what they asked for. Because all university fees everywhere should be the same."
Or just force the colleges to take the students, at the government-determined Educare rate.
So, if it’s free, how much is it going to cost?
Oh, and how is this ‘truly transformational’? Democrats have been on this platform for what feels like years.
Of course, you must never do it; it’s just to garner the yoof vote.
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