That's what I misread just now and — very interested — clicked on. But it was just that article I already blogged yesterday, "The Unstoppable Snowplow Parent/Helicopter parents are so 20th century. Snowplow parents keep their children’s futures obstacle-free — even if it means crossing ethical and legal boundaries" (NYT).
The article is re-titled as "How Parents Are Robbing Their Children of Adulthood/Today’s ‘snowplow parents’ keep their children’s futures obstacle-free — even when it means crossing ethical and legal boundaries," teased on the front page as "How Parents Are Robbing Their Children of Adulthood."
I don't need to read that again. But I am totally up for exposition of the concept that children are robbing their parents of adulthood. The root problem isn't the failure of children to be adults. It's that the actual adults aren't being adult.
ADDED: This subject has me thinking about the documentary "Leaving Neverland," which I finished watching yesterday. Michael Jackson used children in a twisted effort to keep himself in childhood. As a very rich adult and with no one near him who would stop him, he could buy all the toys and candy a real child might demand and throw tantrums about. Jackson would take the child shopping and encourage him to pile up the cart with everything the child wanted. At Neverland, there was a theater and it had the kind of lit-up glass case that commercial theaters have to entice kids to beg their parents to buy them one box of candy. But with Michael as your adult-kid friend, you just took all the candy you wanted.
How did Michael Jackson get away with the many years of sexual abuse he almost certainly engaged in? The kids' parents were involved, and they bought into this grown-up person's vision of childhood — childhood with no limits on making childish fantasy real. They thought their child was getting something great — better than the calmer, restricted childhood that is the ordinary child's lot in life. The parents could have removed their children from the sexual abuse at any point, but they didn't see it. My question here is: Why didn't they see the lavish candy-and-toys fantasy world itself as detrimental to their child?
March 17, 2019
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standard woman line: "My Daughter is my BEST FRIEND!"
if your 'best friend' is Literally young enough to be your daughter...
It's that the adults aren't letting the children be children
Just marry your child, adopted or not, like Woody. It's all healthy.
How Children Are Robbing Their Parents of Adulthood.
Wasn't the old saying "children robbed me of my youth"?
Parents too weak minded to go against the herd equals children being used by others to rob parents of their adulthood.
Snowplow parents are just a variation of "keeping up with the Joneses".
I guess if being an adult means trying to make mature, thoughtful decisions and trying to live according to a certain set of principles where decency and integrity have some value, a child can rob his parents of that if the parent is so intent on delivering whatever the child wants --or what they parent thinks he or she should want-- that the parent behaves in an immature and ultimately destructive way, for both the parent and the child.
Not really being robbed, more like a willing surrender of the adult role in the relationship.
Saw a survey that had the percentage parents that made appts for their adult children. Hint, it needs to be zero. We didn't even wake the kids up to go to school.
Best parenting advice I ever saw, was say no to your kid on a regular basis. Just to train them (by that he really meant the parent).
it is a ridiculous pretzel of a headline, the original is much better.
maybe the unattractive "unstoppable snow plow" image hit too close to home for NYT hometeam readers, so editors used a "blame the kids" angle as a kindness, to ease many of their favorite readers into reading about themselves.
It's not so much that the parents are being childish as that they're being adolescent. That out-of-proportion desire for fame, notoriety and status that they imagine will be conferred by a big name school is very teenage. It reminds me of a friend I had as a teenager who said she had just three dreams -- to write a best-selling book, to sing on Broadway, and -- aw, crap, I can't remember what the third one was, but it was equally ridiculous.
An adult understands that a child who can take care of themselves and their family with at least a little extra to spare is going to be all right, whether they go to USC or Yale or the community college. An adolescent just doesn't think that's SPECIAL enough. They have to be IMPORTANT to be happy.
Also, see the rise in superhero movies/tv shows. Can we not as a culture admit that it's wonderful to be an accountant (or a salesperson or mechanic or garbage collector or plumber or...) who pays his or her own bills and takes care of the front yard and nurtures quality relationships? I guess it would make boring television if we had more of that kind of hero on TV.
But I'm for boring, too.
My contribution to the adultification of my children is that I finally stopped picking them up at the bus stop. All of the other parents -- even one that only has a third grader -- pick their kids up at the bus stop and walk them home, or drive them if the weather is inclement. The bus stop is probably 600 feet down the road.
I liked to go to the bus stop at first, especially with my kindergartener. But now I have a 2nd grader and a kindergartener and two others at home, and the toddler is always just BARELY waking up from his nap when the bus comes, and it feels cruel to haul him out of bed and hustle down there before he can properly wake up. So I just let it go one day and trusted that my kids would get home on their own steam. And they did, and they have ever since. They're much happier to have a little time to decompress before they have to face me and their siblings, and I'm much happier to have the flexibility to do what needs to be done in the afternoon without worrying about whether I'll be at the bus stop exactly at 3:25.
It is a little absurd how long I let myself just go along with the other parents, though. It felt weird to be the only one to make them walk! But I do feel like there are so many dumb parent things we do only because all the other parents seem to care about it.
A good parent doesn't remove obstacles from their children's paths. A good parent gives their children the tools to overcome obstacles, and the resilience to persevere.
"Robbed" implies involuntary or coerced action. In my experience, the parent wants to relive his childhood through his kid, only with all the benefit of (his or her own) adult knowledge and influence. Sports camps, college acceptance hacks, posh birthday and spring break experiences (designed to make sure your kid is seen as cool).
The initial urge is to relive your youth through your kid universal. But most parents prior to the 00s had more important things to do, as well as some common sense.
Redneck lower middle class parents who hoped that some of that thrill of non stop games and animals and fantasy would rub off on them in the form of cash. They would have sold the kids outright for the correct price.
Children are not robbing the adults.....the snowplow and helicopter adults are robbing the children.
Robbing them of a childhood where children play with each other, learn who they are, use their imaginations and are given the gift of failure. Mommy and Daddy will fix it. If you don't fail, you never learn.
Robbing them of adulthood. The children who age into adults have never learned how to BE adults. How to cope with life. Deal with adversity. Succeed ON THEIR OWN without the "help" of mom and dad. They are just aged children....not adults.
The snowplow and helicopter adults have no place from which to complain. They have created this nightmare life for themselves and for their children.
Thinking back on my childhood and the relationship to my parents, I would describe it as benign neglect. We knew our parents cared for us, loved us. BUT...they didn't hover or intrude. We were fed, clothed, housed, disciplined when necessary, encouraged and praised when we did well. We were given chores and obligations and expected to contribute to the household. We did family vacations or activities once in a while....special trips to Disneyland or picnics.
It was unthinkable that our parents would be more involved in our day to day activities or micromanage our lives. They had their OWN adult lives, their own friends and adult activities that we were expected to find occupations of our own. Their lives were not exclusively centered around the children.
It was a healthy balance. What we have today is a sick dynamic.
The headline was changed to imply that the parents—the NYT readers—are victims, which as we know is the most desired status in 21st century left-wing America.
The parents got gifts and trips and the cachet of knowing Michael Jackson. They weren't thinking about whether the lavish candy-and-toys fantasy world was detrimental to their child, they were thinking about keeping their own lavish trips-and-gifts fantasy world going.
One of the symptoms of this "failure to adult" in many of the college students in these elite arenas is their total lack of any type of skills or knowledge that non-elite or Deplorable types have.
They won't do or don't know how to:
Do laundry
Go grocery shopping
Cook a basic meal
Clean up after themselves
Understand finance, budgeting, checking accounts, credit cards, insurance
Basic mechanical things like oil in your car. plunging the toilet.
How to treat other people... especially service workers.
That you need to be on time for a job or class in school
That you are expected to do your actual job duties or your OWN homework.
That you are not the boss at the job.
That other people could give a shit about you. You aren't special.
Mommy and Daddy have done all these things for them. Why should they bother learning.
Questions?
Is there a Person in our country (under the age of 50?) that has made it out of adolescence?
We are a nation of teenagers, worried about who they'll meet up with at the mall
oh, by the way; i'm spending my life trout fishing, so count me as a kid
"How Parents Are Robbing Their Children of Adulthood"
'Twas a silly article which did not actually support the thesis of the new title. If anything, actual statistics (crime, drugs, pregnancy) show the opposite: "youth" are behaving more responsibly than they did previously.
The old title "The Unstoppable Snowplow Parent/Helicopter parents are so 20th century" was less incorrect: some parents act silly. How many parents? It didn't say. The article also didn't provide any evidence that the behavior of the parents "robs children of their adulthood" or that it has a negative effect on the kids in any way, or even that "Helicopter parents are so 20th century" since it didn't mention any other century.
It sure seems like a lot of people fall for the NYT's fake news when it reinforces their beliefs.
One of the symptoms of this "failure to adult" in many
How many? Five? Five million? A couple of kids you happen to know?
of the college students in these elite arenas is their total lack of any type of skills or knowledge that non-elite or Deplorable types have.
College graduates live much healthier lives than those with less education, but research has yet to document with certainty the sources of this disparity.
My question here is: Why didn't they see the lavish candy-and-toys fantasy world itself as detrimental to their child? >>>
Excellent question. I was thinking something similar; that this story raises a lot of issues/questions/facets of human nature, one of which is, what is the good life? What is meaningful in life? As a parent, are you doing your best for your child to immerse him in a glitzy shallow world? What kind of values does that inculcate?
My question here is: Why didn't they see the lavish candy-and-toys fantasy world itself as detrimental to their child?
I think they were seduced by the fame and lifestyle that MJ had. Part of their seduction was to promote their son's career, which was probably a mix of what was for their benefit and what they may have thought was for their son's benefit.
I also think that there is a significant portion of the adult population that would gladly regress to childhood if they could. Oodles of money can free you from obligations and chores and allow you to indulge in childish things.
It's that the actual adults aren't being adult.
—-AbFab was ahead of its time.
I’m not your friend. I’m your parent. When you hit 30 or have children, then we will be on more equal footing.
This is what feminism helped cause. Divorce doesn’t help with a child’s security and stability.
Neverland Ranch was not Neverland from Peter Pan. It was Pleasure Island from Pinocchio.
The parents were disgusting. Hollywood parents. Are we surprised?
It is a little absurd how long I let myself just go along with the other parents, though. It felt weird to be the only one to make them walk!>>>
Seems like a fine idea to me. School policies are also very anti-kid independence. Our kids' elementary school, which is located in a very safe, walkable neighborhood, wouldn't give us permission to let our kids (prior to age 13) leave school at the end of day and walk to another location. They had to take the bus or be picked up in car-line. I hated having to spend a long time waiting in car-line when my kids were plenty old enough to walk to the library or pizza shop 4 blocks away from the school, where I could have swung by and picked them up easily. Meanwhile I walked myself to and from school since I was in first grade.
In a way this post qualifies for the “I'm for boring” tag. Adult responsibility and judgment can be mundane, boring, a step back from what's exciting and new.
Jonathan Haidt has a wonderful phrase about an important cultural shift. The new culture, to which these people belong, believe that anything that doesn’t kill you makes you weaker.
"The kids' parents were involved"
Were they? Which man looked at MJ and thought, that's the kind of guy I want my son to hang out with? I didn't see the documentary, but got the impression that dads were AWOL and moms did this.
And how much of parents-robbing-kids is just moms helicoptering?
As offensive as parents promoting themselves by taking insane risks with their own children, it is even uglier when parents attack the children and families of those they perceive as competitors. It occasionally gets physical (like the cheerleader's mother hiring a hit man to kill a rival's mother to compromise her ability to compete), and sometimes by grading fake news about a perceived rival to make them less attractive to colleges, coaches, etc.). Real Game of Thrones stuff.
I guess the parents could justify it as a trip to Disneyland sort of thing. I just don't see how you could justify the sleepovers. You're beyond slippery slopes and into quantum jumps. The parents of Michael Jackson's victims were very special parents. I think I have more sympathy for Michael Jackson than for those parents......The Varsity Blues parents are like lots of other parents, just richer.
The child made me do it is the refrain from parent hoods.
One of the myriad reasons I won't use the public schools is that parents are treated like children. For example, if your child is sick, you are expected to produce a doctor's note to "prove" that the child was sick for an excused absence. What nonsense! Forget it. No way. How about the child is excused because the PARENT, otherwise known as the adult in charge, says so. Why do people put up with that?
I feel Trump is to blame.
Good lord - I walked to *kindergarten* by myself in San Diego in 1967. Distance probably 3/4 of a mile. One day I said hello to a young boy. He said "Don't say another word" - I said "OK" - he then punched me in the face! I recall crying all the rest of the way to school, telling the teacher etc. However...still walked to kindergarten by myself afterwards. I lived through it. Probably didn't engage in conversation with boys I didn't know for a while...
“For example, if your child is sick, you are expected to produce a doctor's note to "prove" that the child was sick for an excused absence. What nonsense! Forget it. No way.”
When did this start? That wasn’t the case when my children were in elementary and high school. Maybe it’s just your school district? I’ll have to ask my daughters if my grandkids schools require a doctors note.
Freeman: One of the myriad reasons I won't use the public schools is that parents are treated like children. For example, if your child is sick, you are expected to produce a doctor's note to "prove" that the child was sick for an excused absence.
***********
I call those environments: Lowest Common Denominator Arenas. All rules are informed by the worst, the dumbest, the least ethical, etc. Jury Duty is another. My possessions are not fondled every morning that I enter the building for work every morning. But every damn time I enter that courthouse my makeup bag gets a going through, the guard seizes my metal nail file, glaring at me as if to say "Aha you were going to assault the attorney for the defense with this nail file!" Yeah right, 59 3/4" me is gonna assault an attorney. And that is after examining each mundane object, considering its impact as a weapon.
At every appointment for the doctor, dentist, or orthodontist, parents are asked, "Do you need a school excuse?" It's obnoxious. Parents complain that they must pay doctor visit co-payments for unnecessary appointments every time their children miss school.
Good lord - I walked to *kindergarten* by myself in San Diego in 1967. Distance probably 3/4 of a mile.
Same here, about a year before you on Long Island. All the kids walked to elementary school in my neighborhood, can't ever remember being driven to elementary school.
I was flabbergasted the first time I heard of the concept of a play date (sometime in the 80's?). I think all this is unique to the US. Haven't heard of play dates in Europe and all the elementary school kids in my neighborhood in central Oslo walk to school. The younger ones seem to walk with an older sibling or kid on the block.
For many adults, there's no more thought of cultivating personal virtue.
People are blinded by celebrity. Jackson was no less obvious than a middle-aged nobody with "free candy" painted on the side of his panel van, but the parents didn't want to see it, and wanting to see or not see things has a powerful effect on what you actually do see.
@Freeman
It isn't common everywhere. We were never asked about this anywhere out West, but since moving to the South, I'm asked. Institutions in general are less trusting out here. For instance, my children had to have physicals before they registered for school. That's weird to me.
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