The police said that four people, including three men and one woman, had been taken into custody....ADDED: Why would a right-wing fascist want to "to stir discord in the United States over the Second Amendment’s provision on the right to bear arms"? I understand that the man is (he says) Australian and may not understand American ideology and politics and there may be something wrong with trying to make sense of the thinking of a mass murderer, but it seems to me that discord over the Second Amendment boosts the cause of limiting the right to bear arms. When Americans are not under stress, our resting state is to accept widespread gun possession.
A 17-minute video posted to social media appears to show part of the attack. The clip, ... may have been taken from a helmet camera worn by a gunman.... “There wasn’t even time to aim, there was so many targets,” he says at one point...
Before the shooting, someone appearing to be the gunman posted links to a white-nationalist manifesto on Twitter and 8chan, an online forum known for extremist right-wing discussions. The 8chan post included a link to what appeared to be the gunman’s Facebook page, where he said he would also broadcast live video of the attack.....
In his manifesto, he identified himself as a 28-year-old man born in Australia and listed his white nationalist heroes. Writing that he had purposely used guns to stir discord in the United States over the Second Amendment’s provision on the right to bear arms, he also declared himself a fascist. “For once, the person that will be called a fascist, is an actual fascist,” he wrote.
IN THE COMMENTS: MayBee said:
Someone posted the video he took of his own shootings on a thread in Twitter. I didn't want to see it. It just started playing.Twitter should disable autoplay.
ALSO: Daily Mail reports:
The gunman, who identified himself as Brenton Tarrant from Grafton, New South Wales, Australia, named [Candace Owens] as his biggest influence in his 74-page manifesto [posted on Twitter]. [He] said that Owens helped 'push me further and further into the belief of violence over meekness' - but claimed some of the 'extreme actions' she calls for are 'too much, even for my tastes'.Owens is getting attacked for reacting to that tweet with a laughing emoji. She also reacted in words (including "LOL"):
'I’ve never created any content espousing my views on the 2nd Amendment or Islam. The Left pretending I inspired a mosque massacre in...New Zealand because I believe black America can do it without government hand outs is the reachiest reach of all reaches!! LOL!' she said.It's a mistake to use laughter as opposed to straight outrage.
She continued to tweet over the next several hours that she refused to be blamed for the massacre. When followers pointed out the impropriety of her response, she was indignant.
'Laughter is not the response one would expect after these murders,' one follower said.
Owens shot back: 'No. But a bunch of racist white liberals flooding my mentions is almost exactly what one would expect. You guys will never de-platform me.'
MORE IN THE COMMENTS: Freeman Hunt said:
I actually read his screed. He's not a right winger. He's an eco-fascist. He's not a fan of capitalism or conservatives or Marxists. He wants the United States to have a civil war and thinks that will come about by provoking people to fight over the Second Amendment.
Posts
358 comments:
1 – 200 of 358 Newer› Newest»He has Left-Wing ideologies, so it is not going to be a simple classification. We all know there are Left-Wing fascists. Those that say there are not know it, too.
Awful.
Someone posted the video he took of his own shootings on a thread in Twitter. I didn't want to see it. It just started playing.
Just trying to get US Second Amendment gun rights taken away makes that point quite well.
If it were a Muslim committing mass murder he be a lone wolf. If it's a white person it's all white people
This will be tied to President Trump, somehow someway.
This incident is complicated. Rather than rush to judgement I'll wait 30 seconds and let CNN and MSNBC sort this out for me. Also, what does Joy Behar think about this?
Pretty graphic...all 16 some odd minutes of it. Right up there with anything ISIL produced or that I saw in Iraq. His calmness throughout (for a first-timer) was also disturbing.
ISIL really set a precedent with the production of these kinds of go-pro 'snuff' films. Really a bummer but expect to see more of this live-action-first-person-shooter stuff moving forward.
The police said that four people, including three men and one woman, had been taken into custody....
I'm hearing radio reports that there is only one shooter, and that the earlier reports of multiple participants are wrong.
What's the truth of it, I don't know, but that's what I'm hearing.
Never accept early reports. Wait. The story will evolve.
Great. Now we're going to hear Trump blamed because of his "Islamaphobic" rhetoric. Trump will be accused of spreading hate around the world. It's all so sick and predictable.
RIP to the victims. Grace, peace, and comfort to their families.
Fascism is Mussolini's term for his system which, being an intellectual, he wrote about extensively. Hitler was not all that interested in political theories other than as tools for getting his way - whatever sounded good at the time and place.
"but it seems to me that discord over the Second Amendment boosts the cause of limiting the right to bear arms. "
I think the point he is making is that (in his opinion) trying to limit the right to bear arms will lead to conflict with the end result being the victory of the white race.
It is one thing to say "The persons responsible for these acts will be caught and dealt with under the laws of our country."
It is another thing to say, as the NS Prime Minister did {paraphrasing]: "There is no place in our society for people like this."
The second position is divisive. It speaks of a "them" and "us." It morphs easily in some minds into (e.g.) "Those who do not believe in the global warming crisis must be put down, shunned, extirpated."
His manifesto makes no sense. I can't believe he got 3 people to follow him.
And yes, bless the victims and survivors. What a terrible tragedy in their lives.
Zero fucks given. You reap what you sew.
So this guy, British parents, born in Australia, comes to New Zealand and inveighs on the cover of his screed against "Imperialism" and in favor of preserving cultural heritage and ethnic purity.
What must the Aboriginies and Maoris be thinking? Guy maybe took too many steroids.
Lucid Ideas said:
"Pretty graphic...all 16 some odd minutes of it. Right up there with anything ISIL produced or that I saw in Iraq. His calmness throughout (for a first-timer) was also disturbing.
"ISIL really set a precedent with the production of these kinds of go-pro 'snuff' films. Really a bummer but expect to see more of this live-action-first-person-shooter stuff moving forward."
Someone (I forget who) put forth a theory of the recent wave of school shootings is a form of slow-motion riot. Riots start with a small group that break the legal and social barriers against theft, vandalism and assault and spread as others with similar inclinations but stronger inhibitions see the initiators getting away with these acts and decide to follow suit. This draws others in, and the riot spreads. Each school shooting makes the idea of a school massacre more acceptable to those with the inclination to carry out such a hideous act.
My prediction: this incident will inspire future maniacs who engage in mass-shootings to post the video or stream it live in a sick attempt to gather more attention, which will in turn inspire even more maniacs. I think things will get a lot worse.
You guys will never de-platform me.'
Twitter will, though.
OMG! 42 people dead? That's like a weekends worth from Chicago, St Louis, Baltimore and Philadelphia.
I forgot to add: why isn't anyone talking about those murdered in this country by just 4 cities.
AOC has ALREADY used this opportunity to state that if bad things happen to good people; Religion (and GOD himself) Must be a sham.
"“What good are your thoughts & prayers when they don’t even keep the pews safe?”
May GOD Bless the victims and the survivors
A true fascist would be against the 2nd Amendment, right?
I'll cut Owens some slack. I wouldn't have a rational first response if I were blamed for a mass murder.
"right wing fascist" is an oxymoron and you should know better.
John Henry
Any minute now tolerant, thoughtful people will be pouring out of the woodwork to remind us that "not all...". And furthermore to explain why it's somebody else's (somebody related to the victims) fault that the murderer was "radicalized". And that we as a society must stop stereotyping and marginalizing the people who share an identity with the murderer...
Right?
AllenS said.. That's like a weekends worth from Chicago, St Louis, Baltimore and Philadelphia
But ALLEN! These were proper White People; liberals don't care what happens to ghetto folk
Normally I'd let it slide because he may well be right wing under Australian or New Zealand definitions, but there is nothing right wing about this guy as the term is used in the US and, since this is a Times story...
He is solid left-wing. Except the NYT doesn't like him. That, of course, is enough to make him "right wing" in their paper.
But a bunch of racist white liberals...
It's not lost on me how similar left and right can be, like opposite ends of the Mobius strip.
Australia passed some very strict gun laws in the last few years, but the voluntary surrenders of weapons wasn't successful, IIRC. I don't know about NZ's, but they're probably worse. The victims were unarmed. Why did he stop?
"Owens shot back: 'No. But a bunch of racist white liberals flooding my mentions is almost exactly what one would expect. You guys will never de-platform me."
She "shot back"?
Um.
I am Laslo.
Damn. I know that area of Christchurch well. I stay at a place on the other side of Hagley Park.
Geraldo said that the killers credited Trump for renewing white identity.
You are correct, gilbar, and it should have been the top thing for Obama to address, but I always thought that when his grandparents sent him to school in the lower 48, they paid big dollars to get him in, and that's why the schools hid his records, for he was just as dumb as these children of the stars, who are in the news now.
I don't know who Candace Owens is, but I can understand her desire to use mocking as a defense against these stupid charges. But under the circumstances, that just gives more ammunition to her enemies. Straight outrage would have been better.
I do have a feeling this will be one of the tragedies where fellow citizens don't brag about just continuing to eat their dinner.
AOC has ALREADY used this opportunity to state that if bad things happen to good people; Religion (and GOD himself) Must be a sham.
"“What good are your thoughts & prayers when they don’t even keep the pews safe?”
Don't think her statement is intended to be a direct put down of religion; it sets the stage more for the "we need to take your guns because prayers and thoughts don't prevent gun violence - not having guns keeps you safe wherever" crowd.
It's a mistake to use laughter as opposed to straight outrage.
Bitter laughter works fine here.
from wikipeadia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_New_Zealand ...
Gun licences are issued at the discretion of the police in New Zealand provided the police consider the person to be of good standing[citation needed] and without criminal, psychiatric or drug issues as well as meeting other conditions such as having suitable storage facilities. They must be issued for a valid reason
Why would a right-wing fascist want to "to stir discord in the United States over the Second Amendment’s provision on the right to bear arms"?
I would assume it is like the people who try to start a race war, on the assumption that people ( or at least the right people ) will rally to their side, and they will win.
This reminds me of the massacres in Copt churches in Egypt.
Owens is getting attacked for reacting to that tweet with a laughing emoji. She also reacted in words (including "LOL")
It's a mistake to use laughter as opposed to straight outrage.
sounds like What We Need is a sneering emoji so that people will quit misusing the laughing one.
sneering
[ˈsniriNG]
NOUN
the action of smiling or speaking in a contemptuous or mocking manner.
Andrew@6:45am/
Bullseye, Andrew!! That's been the exact theme of all the talking heads at MSNBC and CNN all morning..
Right wing extremism. Lets hear agian how it’s the left who are violent. Our own idiot President talks about violence by his police, his military, his motorcycle thugs against his political enemies. 11 are murdered in a Synagogue here in our own country because of some alt right nut got triggered by the anti migrant rhetoric, which is yelled from the bully pulpit.
My God, this is what right wing extremism has wrought. We have enough of them right here on these comments sections.
My wife and I visited Christchurch in 2009. Beautiful city, or at least it was before suffering heavy damage in more or more powerful earthquakes. Nice people.
"My wife and I visited Christchurch in 2009. Beautiful city, or at least it was before suffering heavy damage in more or more powerful earthquakes. Nice people."
Yeah, the downtown (which is just a few blocks east of this mosque) is a mess.
LOL means lots of love.
Laughter is always more appropriate than faux outrage.
“Trump will be accused of spreading hate around the world. It's all so sick and predictable.”
Predictable because it’s obvious that is exactly what he’s doing.
Yes indeed it’s sick. Trump and how he’s going to sic his police, his military and his bikers on his political enemies.
Gross, disgusting, embarrassing that the US has such a President.
Yes indeed it’s sick. Trump and how he’s going to sic his police, his military and his bikers on his political enemies.
Well isn't that kind of what we want people to do to the white nationalists now?
Sadly we will never know the shooters real motive.
The ideology seems to be an amalgam, with a leftist tilt to its platform. Is this nationalism or extreme identity politics?
"Toward a New Society: We March Ever Forwards"
Worker's Rights, Anti-Imperialism, Environmentalism, Responsible Markets, Protection of Heritage & Culture, Ethnic Autonomy, Law & Order Addiction-Free Community
It looks like false flag to me.
White supremacists roaming around is a leftist fantasy. It turns up in movies as terrorists instead of muslims, a PC terrorism anxiety plot.
It's time for a "Why do they hate us?" muslim moment.
Still think it's false flag.
What else is missing. Lone wolf.
“Well isn't that kind of what we want people to do to the white nationalists now?”
No, because we are better than that. People want the right to open their eyes.
Maybe it's youths.
Democrats/Leftists are spreading lies around the world. Australian TV entertainment shows are full of them--even more than American TV. This year's Rake started off with the US Sec. of Defense having a nervous breakdown because Trump wanted to nuke everybody. They gave him fake launch codes, just in case. Every comedy show has a section of Trump jokes--following the Democrat narrative, of course.
Whatever else it is, it's a comparative news biz meme exercise.
No, because we are better than that. People want the right to open their eyes.
How does the "right" opening their eyes keep racist militants from killing people in New Zealand? You don't want the FBI to do anything about them?
“White supremacists roaming around is a leftist fantasy. It turns up in movies as terrorists instead of muslims, a PC terrorism anxiety plot.”
Just idiotic. The Sikh Temple massacre in Wisconsin wasn’t a figment of anyone’s imagination.
We want our white nationalists to have voted for Obama twice and to still have a trail linking with the Democrats a couple of weeks before the big rally.
“You don't want the FBI to do anything about them?”
This doesn’t even make sense.
“How does the "right" opening their eyes keep racist militants from killing people in New Zealand.”
Jesus woman, connect the dots. Rightism is a rising fascism. Open your eyes and back away from it.
Inga...Allie Oop said...
People want the right to open their eyes.
You have the right. What you lack, apparently, is the ability.
Sadly we will never know the shooters real motive.
Good one, Bill!
This is from a NYT Tech writer:
Kevin Roose
Verified account
@kevinroose
9h9 hours ago
More
Media: be careful with the NZ shooter's apparent manifesto. It's thick with irony and meta-text and very easy to misinterpret if you're not steeped in this stuff all the time (and even if you are).
A 'white supremacist' inspired by a black conservative. You can't make these things up.
He was ex special forces had been to Pakistan, recently, where China had been running interference for jaish Mohammed
Lotta the usual predictable reactions does; smell false flaggy.
I'm not sure if rhhardin is right, but this villain does seem to have been sent up from central casting. I will await further developments.......Just how big an "influencer" is Candace Owens in New Zealand?
googles sikh temple massacre
That was a lone wolf.
Greatly outnumbered by even just lone gunman shootings of the garden variety not interpretable as political.
The right is rather wondering what the fuck is wrong with muslims that they accept violence, for, for instance, drawing mohammad. They're mostly peaceful but if you ask in large percentages say that the cartoonist got what he deserved. Is that weird or what.
Jesus woman, connect the dots. Rightism is a rising fascism. Open your eyes and back away from it.
No. Connect the dots for me.
First of all, how does asking if you don't want the FBI to do anything about white nationalists not make any sense?
Second...how does not being a liberal mean rising fascism? You are trying to eliminate your political opponents!
I actually read his screed. He's not a right winger. He's an eco-fascist. He's not a fan of capitalism or conservatives or Marxists. He wants the United States to have a civil war and thinks that will come about by provoking people to fight over the Second Amendment.
Did auto correct move my semicolon?
I'm ignoring this. I'll check back next week sometime and examine the real facts as they become public.
Governments and Media, have a long history of shaping opinion instead of reporting facts.
This guy posted oh 8chan, super alt right site. The synagogue shooter posted on 4chan, alt right site.
“I'm ignoring this. I'll check back next week sometime and examine the real facts as they become public.
Governments and Media, have a long history of shaping opinion instead of reporting facts.”
Yes stick your head where the sun don’t shine, as usual.
He's still lone wolf. It's not an organization.
It's very hard to get a legal firearm in New Zealand and impossible in Australia since port arthur.
I read his explanation of his motives. I don't care where he hung out online, the guy is not on the right by the American definition of right.
I must have a dozen "action" movies that have a right wing camp that's planning a massive attack on something or another.
You need a very large suspension of disbelief to enjoy them if you're not a leftist.
I don't recall any islamic groups in a similar position in a movie.
The point about suspension of disbelief is that the movies cater to the left wing fantasy of right wing camps.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/new-zealand-mosque-terrorist-may-have-targeted-country-because-it-n983601k
“The main suspect accused of carrying out a massacre in two New Zealand mosques Friday was described by officials as a "right-wing extremist terrorist," and appeared to post a lengthy manifesto before the attack detailing his white-supremacist worldview.
Although not confirmed by authorities, a 74-page manifesto titled "The Great Replacement" was posted online beforehand and matched several known details about the suspect and the attack.
It contains a sprawling array of anti-immigrant, anti-Muslim and white-supremacist references, repeating common far-right talking points. It also condemns attempts to restrict firearms in the U.S. and pledges to start an American race war.
“I don't care where he hung out online, the guy is not on the right by the American definition of right.”
This is what I mean by “open your eyes”.
Yes stick your head where the sun don’t shine, as usual.
That's how us fascist roll. Patiently waiting for facts.
Progressives are more proactive. They scout out Republican Congressmen, to target for assassination. It's the Democrat Party way.
All the world 's a stage. New Zealand is as connected a sound stage as any for an obvious theatrically produced play of The White Nationalists WITH GUNS playing the role written for them to play in the Globalist's mega push to confiscate the guns in the USA. CNN has already carefully explained a long scenario in which President Trump has done this deed by use of propaganda to incite the crazy deplorables.
What's a white supremacist?
https://www.johnderbyshire.com/Opinions/RadioDerb/2016-12-02.html#05
Inga, what do you think of it? Narrow down the category. It's not long.
The underpants gnome strategy to civil war, recall there was an Australian imam who inspired the pulse shooter.
“I don't care where he hung out online, the guy is not on the right by the American definition of right.”
This is what I mean by “open your eyes”. He has plenty of ideas that fall squarely in the far right camp. He didn’t kill 40 + Muslim immigrants and residents of Christchurch because of global warming.
From the killer's screed:
"Were/are you a conservative?
No, conservatism is corporatism in disguise, I want no part of it. ...
"Were/are you a fascist?
Yes. For once, the person that will be called a fascist, is an actual fascist. I am sure the journalists will love that.
I mostly agree with Sir Oswald Mosley’s views and consider myself an Eco-fascist by nature.
The nation with the closest political and social values to my own is the People’s Republic of China."
Iowan2, you're right to be patient. In any case, this even is horrific and tragic. And AOC aside, prayers are in order.
described by officials as a "right-wing extremist terrorist,"
Officials are 100% PC line. It's not impossible that they're in on it, if there's a conspiracy involved. More power for them.
You can say it's bad to shoot people in mosques without saying it's terrorism. Why do they say it?
Oh and he had recently been in North Korea zo square that circle.
"He didn’t kill 40 + Muslim immigrants and residents of Christchurch because of global warming."
Ha!
"Why focus on immigration and birth rates when climate change is such a huge issue?
Because they are the same issue, the environment is being destroyed by over population, we Europeans are one of the groups that are not over populating the world. The invaders are the ones over populating the world. Kill the invaders, kill the overpopulation and by doing so save the environment."
Why would a right-wing fascist want to "to stir discord in the United States over the Second Amendment’s provision on the right to bear arms"?
Well first of all, he's not a Rightwing fascist, he's a Leftwing fascist like most fascists are.
Maybe the officials are afraid of muslims. You know how those people are.
Look look nobody loves muslims more than we do!
And thank you, Freeman, for shedding some light on the shooter. I've known some eco-terrorists and they are armed and dangerous.
Inga,
You're the one that needs to open your eyes.
“Patiently waiting for facts.”
Yeah, that’s what you want to call running away from any possible blame the right deserves. You’d be talking out of the other side of your mouth had a left wing shooter killed 40+ people. Your response to Trump’s violent rhetoric about siccing his military, his police and his bikers on his enemies was very revealing.
“You're the one that needs to open your eyes.”
Sez the blind guy.
“And thank you, Freeman, for shedding some light on the shooter. I've known some eco-terrorists and they are armed and dangerous.”
So what were these Muslims in these mosques doing? Dumping garbage in the creek or something?
Trump did not say he would "sic" those groups on his enemies. He was, accurately, noting that the left resorts to violence much sooner than the right (which should be obvious even to you, if you at follow the news at all), and opining that if/when the right does turn to violence, it will be at a greater level.
He falsely said he was influenced by Candace Owns because he wants to destroy her because she is an obstacle to his goal of provoking a race war. He expressly said he made the attack to provoke a move toward gun confiscation, to cause a civil war in the USA, which he wanted to be a race war. He is clever enough to know what would happen in response to the attacks.
"He is clever enough to know what would happen in response to the attacks."
Yes. Unfortunately, there are plenty like Inga who will carry his water for him.
This sudden strange staged for publicity event in a British country has eaten up all world media coverage thus silencing all news on the Brexit crisis and reveals of the crushing Criminal Conspiracy against President Trump that's been going on in DC since early 2015 with the British Monarchy's fingerprints all over it.
"Never accept early reports. Wait. The story will evolve."
I would replace 'evolve' with 'become known'.
"I'll check back next week sometime and examine the real facts as they become public.
Governments and Media, have a long history of shaping opinion instead of reporting facts.”
Indeed. Might take more than a week though, especially if the initial narrative - Right-Wing Fascist - doesn't pan out.
So I am to understand an Australian, in a land of VERY STRICT GUN CONTROL, got guns anyway, went to New Zealand, killed a bunch of people, and then thinks this will promote gun control and a civil war in AMERICA?
He is nuts!
“The invaders are the ones over populating the world. Kill the invaders, kill the overpopulation and by doing so save the environment."
Oh so he killed all those Muslim immigrants because they procreate and he wants only white to have babies? Only Muslims pollute?
He wants the United States to have a civil war and thinks that will come about by provoking people to fight over the Second Amendment.
The last guy called it "Helter Skelter."
He's a total ethno nationalist. That's his thing. But he's not coming from the right or left. Sort of a hodgepodge of strange, racist fantasies. He wants everyone live with people of their own ancestry,and somehow this is going to save culture and the environment.
Gavrilo Princip
"Oh so he killed all those Muslim immigrants because they procreate and he wants only white to have babies? Only Muslims pollute?"
I'm just posting what he wrote. I didn't say it made sense!
Armstrong and Getty don't mention it was a mosque, just that the media once again are doing the one thing everybody agrees makes it worse, putting out a picture of the shooter looking cool, and printing his manifesto.
Give us blood and we'll publicize your grievance.
Ratings rule. Crazy people of the world, unite.
“we Europeans are one of the groups that are not over populating the world.”
Oh he’s happy they aren’t having babies, but doesn’t think for a minute that Europeans pollute too? Again why focus on only Muslim polluters? It’s far more than any eco terrorism. Right wing ideology is deeply enmeshed in that mess that was his mindset.
It's a mistake to use laughter as opposed to straight outrage.
I find it abhorrent that a person not involved in the attack is being judged for how they respond to people trying to conflate them with it.
The idea one must follow a particular script in this situation is to give the mob control over you.
Oh so he killed all those Muslim immigrants because they procreate and he wants only white to have babies? Only Muslims pollute?
Not quite, Inga. I think he sees it as a numbers scenario. Muslims have more kids therefore they are contributing to the overpopulation zeitgeist of more people use and abuse more of Mother Gaia's resources. Whites are stuck on the 1.5 non replacement number.
Trying to locate this guy on the US left-right political spectrum is about as edifying as planning global circumnavigation with a flat-earth map.
Another win for the dominant proggie media, with ratings and virtue signs and hatred of Trump galore. Without this what purpose would good lil proggies have? Russia is boredom defined after all this time.
What's not to like? Terrorism kills fewer people than falling coconuts each afternoon and is simply not a problem. Those folks would still be dead from Richard Mellon Scaife poisoning the world's air, land, and sea in just a mere decade so maybe the killer acted out of mercy?
Once again we fight over which side owns the crazy guy.
Sad.
Eagle vs Shark (2007) has a New Zealander telling an Australian dialect joke, so I gather there's some tension between the two nations.
Hammond X. Gritzkofe said...
So this guy, British parents, born in Australia, comes to New Zealand and inveighs on the cover of his screed against "Imperialism" and in favor of preserving cultural heritage and ethnic purity."
Yeah, and he's a white supremacist who says a black conservative inspired him although Owens never talks about guns or environmental issues. Yeah, right.
It's really pretty clear what his twisted game plan was: to start a hot civil war in the US. He knew the left would rush to blame conservatives and Trump and would attack gun rights once again. He hoped that the leftist gun grabbers would be met by violence from gun owners.
Congrats, Inga, you and the other dimwit assholes on the left are doing exactly what this murderous scumbag wanted you to do. He certainly read you correctly.
He's a total ethno nationalist. That's his thing. But he's not coming from the right or left. Sort of a hodgepodge of strange, racist fantasies. He wants everyone live with people of their own ancestry,and somehow this is going to save culture and the environment.
Fascists and Communists are totalitarian. They want to control how people live, speak and think. Conservative America is really all about freedom.
Oh he’s happy they aren’t having babies, but doesn’t think for a minute that Europeans pollute too? Again why focus on only Muslim polluters?
You know, someone who decides the way to solve anything is to shoot innocent people is just not going to make a lot of sense.
Guns have been heavily restricted since the aramoana massacre in 1990.
“He's a total ethno nationalist.”
Trump proudly proclaimed that he was a nationalist.
Trump is a nationalist meaning he negotiates for Americans.
Freeman Hunt said...
He's a total ethno nationalist. That's his thing. But he's not coming from the right or left. Sort of a hodgepodge of strange, racist fantasies. He wants everyone live with people of their own ancestry, and somehow this is going to save culture and the environment.
That's why it struck me as extreme identity politics, the inevitable conclusion really to playing the intersectionality card.
Somebody should remind Donkey Choppers that if a gun man walked into a Texas church with a rifle and mischief on his mind - he'd be full of lead and dead before he hit the ground. That exact scenario played out at a church picnic awhile back - some failed liberal social experiment showed up with a duffel full of guns and mags, got a couple shots off - and then got plugged twice in the chest by a lady with a revolver and that was that for that! Funnily enough the event barely made the local papers.
It has all the usual lefty boxes checked: racism!!! Gun violence!!! Clearly we need to round up all the guns!!!!
Keep your eyes on the people in the background on this one. I'm not saying it's a false flag. I'm just sayin'...
The first black president negotiated for blacks.
"Eagle vs Shark (2007) has a New Zealander telling an Australian dialect joke, so I gather there's some tension between the two nations."
Yeah, there's a lot, though I can't tell if it's good-natured competitiveness or actual animus. Probably a bit of both.
Nationalism is a huge problem world wide. Extremism is flourishing under the moniker of nationalism...again.
Nationalism is a right wing ideology. Open your eyes.
Nationalism means deals where both sides come out ahead.
If both sides don't come out ahead, no deal.
Ethnic nationalism means each race has its own country. Nothing about deals.
Historical footnote: Oswald Mosley, the British Fascist, was not a Conservative. He was a member of the Labour Party before becoming a Fascist.......Fascism is not especially pro capitalism. They've never pushed for lower taxes on capital gains or balanced budgets.
Inga...Allie Oop said...
“He's a total ethno nationalist.”
Trump proudly proclaimed that he was a nationalist.
3/15/19, 8:29 AM
nationalism (năshˈə-nÉ™-lÄzˌəm, năshˈnÉ™-)►
n. Devotion to the interests or culture of one's nation.
n. The belief that nations will benefit from acting independently rather than collectively, emphasizing national rather than international goals.
n. Aspirations for national independence in a country under foreign domination.
People who love and support America don't assert other people's love and support of America is some sort of problem.
This is handy!
From the scumbag's manifesto:
Mr. Tarrant also has a U.S. goal in mind in committing the attack — fomenting a second American Civil War.
“Finally, to create conflict between the two ideologies within the United States on the ownership of firearms in order to further the social, cultural, political and racial divide within the United States. This conflict over the 2nd amendment and the attempted removal of firearms rights will ultimately result in a civil war that will eventually balkanize the US [that] will not only result in the the racial separation of people within the United States ensuring the future of the White race on the North American continent but also ensuring the death of the ‘melting pot’ pipe dream,” he writes."
Inga is working hard to ensure that Tarrant's dream comes true.
@Tom Ault
Without a doubt. What's worse is he knew precisely how to ensure the video spread like wildfire which means - once again - big tech is a slave to its algorithm, not the other way around.
It puts real sadness in my heart that it's only a matter of time before a US school shooter decides to 'go-pro' his massacre in a similar way. This is yet another of the downsides to our pics-or-it-didn't happen culture that big tech is additionally responsible for.
I want to make it clear that I don't blame big tech for his or others actions, but it is a partially human-designed by-product of the very product they were trying to sell. Evil exists and its going to be impossible to stop things like this anymore than you can stop cute cat videos.
A lot of my buddies wore go-pros overseas and while I never did, I understood to a degree why. It allows proof of a rare experience (yes...violence is still rare) as well as a less appealing factor, the ability to relive or have someone else you know relive the experience with you. I've never thought that was psychologically very healthy.
Regarding go-pro first-person-shooter innovators, the blame belongs squarely on the shoulders of ISIL. They were the true innovators in providing first-person carnage and like all innovations, its impact being replicated was only a matter of time...
...Peoples' exhibit A.
Nationalism isn't racism. America is not only a mix of races but I'd wager we have more racially mixed people than does any other country in the world. I am a racial minority in my county in AZ. The point is that we are Americans and love our country.
Never accept the initial reports. The media has been so awful on details in initial reports that the details should be considered completely unreliable. It will take some time to sort out the facts from the rumors from the misinformation. Yet somehow we always end up here, trying to figure out what we should be outraged about, relying on the same sources that got it mostly wrong the last dozen times.
Typical US identitarians e.g. "left-wing" social justice grievance types are tribalist in mindset, not nationalist. They typically abhor the nation-state as a primitive form of organization compared to the global form which our civilization demands. This guy idolizes China. He's a nazi-type fascist, not a politically conservative/classically liberal US style "fascist."
The bright side is there were no beheadings.
Inga...Allie Oop said...
Nationalism is a right wing ideology. Open your eyes.
This is true, along with individuality and freedom.
A wheel just flew off that car wreck and hit Candace Owens.
Is the eco-terrorist part of this making the news? The guy hates global trade but loves the Chinese state. He is against overpopulation. Carl Sagan, call your office. Go figure.
The bottom line is that the perp is crazy.
The nation that seems closest to this guy's ideal is: The People's Republic of China.
Yeah, that sure sounds conservative to me!
White Nationalism. Let’s call it what it really is. Don’t play games.
Trump isn't white nationalist. He's nationalist.
Let's call Inga what is she really is: a vicious, stupid hag who is delighted this happened. Don't play games.
What is the impetus reason people have for saying "provided the reason for slaughtering...". Nut job is gonna cook off when and if they're gonna cook off. You folks channelling Popeye's "that's all I can stands..." rant? False flag operation by the shooter? First 48 hours reporting is notoriously far off the facts. Give the news time, like we all have for Las Vegas. Ahem. I'm surprised the shooter didn't say that Inga pissed him off!
Never accept the initial reports.
The initial reports are used to create the narrative. Once that narrative is established, it's pretty much impossible to change people's minds regardless what new information or clarifying facts may emerge.
“Robert bowers wanted everyone to know why he did it.
“I can’t sit by and watch my people get slaughtered,” he posted on the social-media network Gab shortly before allegedly entering the Tree of Life synagogue in Pittsburgh on October 27 and gunning down 11 worshippers. He “wanted all Jews to die,” he declared while he was being treated for his wounds. Invoking the specter of white Americans facing “genocide,” he singled out HIAS, a Jewish American refugee-support group, and accused it of bringing “invaders in that kill our people.” Then–Attorney General Jeff Sessions, announcing that Bowers would face federal charges, was unequivocal in his condemnation: “These alleged crimes are incomprehensibly evil and utterly repugnant to the values of this nation.””
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/04/adam-serwer-madison-grant-white-nationalism/583258/
Inga's okay. He/she just supplies the left wing talking points. I doubt they're even serious.
Anybody who knows the party line that well will also know what to avoid saying. It's a pretty arm's length composition problem at that level.
Robert Bowers hated Trump, you stupid, vicious hag.
Inga...Allie Oop said...
White Nationalism. Let’s call it what it really is. Don’t play games.
Now you're just lying. But recall just yesterday you were crying about people smearing Dems with Antifa. But today there's a new circumstance so you've jettisoned that principle and are asserting as obviously true what was so obviously false yesterday.
You really are a disgusting person.
“The president’s rhetoric about “shithole countries” invites dismissal as crude talk, but behind it lie ideas whose power should not be underestimated.
Warnings from conservative pundits on Fox News about the existential threat facing a country overrun by immigrants meet with a similar response. “Massive demographic changes,” Laura Ingraham has proclaimed, mean that “the America we know and love doesn’t exist anymore” in much of the country: Surely this kind of rhetoric reflects mere ignorance. Or it’s just a symptom of partisan anxiety about what those changes may portend for Republicans’ electoral prospects. As for the views and utterances of someone like Congressman Steve King (“We can’t restore our civilization with somebody else’s babies”), such sentiments are treated as outlandish extremism, best ignored as much as possible.”
What's that bumper sticker I see at the Farmer's Market?
"Think globally, Act locally"
“You really are a disgusting person.”
You are a disgusting idiot.
With all forms of nationalism being abhorrent to identitarians, they're not always so deft at distinguishing between the different flavors: why bother when it's all poison? It's also useful to conflate the popular form of nationalism with more threatening ethno-nationalism and ethnonationalist extremists. Sometimes this conflation is owed to a lack of sophistication in the face of antinationalist propaganda, and sometimes it's people who know better crafting effective propaganda.
“King’s recent question, posed in a New York Times interview, may be appalling: “White nationalist, white supremacist, Western civilization—how did that language become offensive?” But it is apt. “That language” has an American past in need of excavation. Without such an effort, we may fail to appreciate the tenacity of the dogma it expresses, and the difficulty of eradicating it. The president’s rhetoric about “shithole countries” and “invasion” by immigrants invites dismissal as crude talk, but behind it lie ideas whose power should not be underestimated.”
"Warnings from conservative pundits on Fox News about the existential threat facing a country overrun by immigrants meet with a similar response. “
Illegal immigrants, you stupid, vicious hag.
How many orgasms have you had over this mass murder this morning, Inga? You don't give a shit about the victims - you are just delighted and happy to have something you think you can blame on conservatives.
You are a piece of filth.
I blame this attack on religious frauds and fanatics, which means all religions and all adherents. That means you, mockturtle. No mosques, no mosque shootings. No Musks, then no Teslas. I also blame Schlump and the NRA for promoting gun violence. I see a connection between guns and gun violence. No guns, no gun violence. Duh! Outlaw hunting and trapping. No traps, no animals caught in them. Arrest Don Jr. and Eric Schlump on schlumped up charges. They're up to no good. Just look at their beady eyes.
It's curious that might makes right and right makes might are near opposites.
Almost left vs right, politically speaking.
Inga...Allie Oop said...
“You really are a disgusting person.”
You are a disgusting idiot.
3/15/19, 8:48 AM
The opinions of idiots mean precisely dick to me. Continue arguing what what made people extremist yesterday is imply fact today.
Show everybody what you are.
Why is it curious that switching the order of the words creates the opposite meaning of the phrase?
“Show everybody what you are.”
You do daily and it isn’t admirable.
BUMBLE BEE suggests: Give the news time, like we all have for Las Vegas.
We're still waiting...
You could say it might is right and right is might and get the same effect.
If I may offer some advice it is this: it is prudent to ignore the ravings of those that seek to blame an entire group of people for the abhorrent actions of a single person in that group. Their efforts to do this are despicable, but they will not be deterred by argument or facts so don't waste your time. Unless you enjoy it.
I don't see a good outcome for this generation.
Will Farmer, self-described 'ethno-nationalist' weigh in here?
Some people are an embarrassment and should be completely ignored for the rest of this thread. Don't respond.
Were you taught violence and extremism by video
games,music,literature,cinema?
Yes, Spyro the dragon 3 taught me ethno-nationalism. Fortnite trained me
to be a killer and to floss on the corpses of my enemies.
No.
Did you always hold these views?
No, when I was young I was a communist, then an anarchist and finally a
libertarian before coming to be an eco-fascist.
And I'm not talking about Trumpit. He's easy to ignore already.
There are ethnonationalists who bemoan the decline of the ethnostate because they're skeptical about civilization's prospects in the multiethnic state. Then there are the ones who take action.
"Their efforts to do this are despicable, but they will not be deterred by argument or facts so don't waste your time. "
This is true. You are correct. Vicious fools like Inga will continue to be vicious fools no matter what.
Freeman: I'm just posting what he wrote. I didn't say it made sense!
Like quoting Inga, then.
Internet/msm reaction to these things is utterly predictable by now. The usual suspects are no doubt out there in their tireless hysteria on the quote-unquote news, twitter, etc., trying to work that exhausted "white supremacy", "right-wing extremism", "rising fascism" vein once again. Don't even have to look. Alleged "intellectuals" will be tapping out the same ignorant fantasies about what's going on out there, that they furiously tap out in response to anything.
It's what they do. It clarifies nothing, accomplishes nothing, any more than arguing with them clarifies or accomplishes anything. Ahab has once again sighted the great Great White Supremacist, and he's off.
He's a "spyrochete".
That bit about videogames was irony.
NEWS FLASH there's a danger of the video being spliced into youtube videos aimed at children, so you might want to keep your kids off the computer.
The children angle.
Scott Adams: if the NZ shooter believes that Trump is a white supremacist, where did he get that belief? Not Fox, not Brietbart.
Nonsensical rants of a man that is insane.
Go ahead, pick out the parts you'd like to use as a club on your political opponents. Dress them up as if they're undeniable truths resulting from decades of scientific research.
So hes a kook like Breivik, who grabs from a pouparri of crazy,
You do daily and it isn’t admirable.
Only to those who evaluate everything according to how it benefits Team Blue. Rational people feel otherwise, but how could you know that?
Some people come to threads like this one trolling for the attention. Do not give them what they want.
So video games, but I though he was whatever kiwi special forces are.
Throw the shooter to the surviving women.
"Trying to locate this guy on the US left-right political spectrum is about as edifying as planning global circumnavigation with a flat-earth map." - daskol
Thank you for that. Even with just run-of-the-mill European left/right, the American left and right bear only a passing resemblance. And this guy's screed would certainly suggest that he's emphatically not run-of-the-mill.
Inga, for heaven's sake, do you really equate the "political" beliefs of what sounds like a dangerous loon with the political beliefs of half of the United States? Or believe that our beliefs are a stepping stone to his? How would a desire for smaller, constitutionally limited government, support for individual rights (my right to swing my arm stops where your nose begins), promoting and preserving those values and traditions of our culture - our multiethnic culture - that have been shown to result in overall better outcomes rather than rushing to tear down fences the purpose of which we don't understand, and a fervent wish for everyone to be left alone as much as possible to live lives without interference, entice us into mass murder - the ultimate interference in others' lives?
"Open your eyes" indeed; if you think the American conservative is on a path to become a wild-eyed self-appointed inquisitor and executioner, it seems to me you're squinching your eyes tight, sticking fingers into your ears, and chanting, "The boogeyman is coming! The boogeyman is coming!"
One final note:
If this 'manifesto' could not be used to hurt Trump in some way, the media would not have published it.
Perhaps this shooting will cause Muslims to reflect on violent ideologies.
8chan must be banned because it promotes hate and violence but the Koran is The Word of Allah.
Allah is a violent thug.
What if they threw a False Flag show and no one attended? We are close to the point that British propaganda no longer works. I blame Trump.
Candace Owens cause this.
But Islam is not responsible for the more than 30,000 killings in the name of Allah each year.
Hes for worker rights, anti imperialism and environmentalism hes also probably a vegan.
It was only a matter of time before White Nationalists took up Jihad.
Live-streaming the killings seems inspired by those guys who record themselves beheading infidels.
This is what happens to those who slander Pepe the Frog
This is precisely the sort of manifestation I was expecting in the US.
The general hatred and anxiety is piling up very quickly, and its inevitable that it will break out. The big surprise is that this one broke in New Zealand. Well, at least among the English-speaking it is one media world now.
The manifesto is explicit about the purpose, and historically this is a sound approach, if your purpose is to start revolutions and civil wars. Its the old anarchist "propaganda of the deed", but of course it goes back before that. Its the same reasoning that Charles Manson used. Indeed, its the same reasoning the Russian Social Revolutionaries used in the 19th century, to force a reaction by the state, to enhance the contradictions. Lenins brother became a revolutionary martyr as a result of one such incident. This sort of thing succeeds, or doesn't, depending on the perceived legitimacy and effectiveness of the state.
Ultimately the US in Mansons day was still sound, and his conspiracy was simply evil futility. In Russia the same thing was eventually effective in driving large factions of the intelligentsia and the state apart, as it exploited inherent weaknesses. What now, in this culture? We will see.
The manifesto is perceptive and clever. It anticipates a reaction, it perhaps deliberately invites suspicions of false flags, etc. And the fact that the lot of them let themselves be captured alive means that the whole thing will remain prominent for a long time. These people will remain available to speak for years.
When things crack, the cracks start at weak points, with insane or eccentric or demon-driven people. That doesn't mean they can't be extremely clever.
Buwaya,
Good stuff as usual.
This does enhance the contradictions. Like Manson but much more clever
Did anyone call the Ted Kaczynksi a 'right-wing extremist'?
The Inga reaction is precisely what the manifesto-writer anticipated.
The point is to begin or increase persecution, in order to speed up the social -cultural-political split, and to create incentives for avengers or copycats to amplify the effect.
The victims in this case are in a strange way quite incidental. There had to be victims of such deeds, but the selection can be quite random and opportunistic.
Anders Breivik had a much more specific target, that of removing the next generation of left-wing political figures when he fixed on the socialist youth camp. This was intended for a particular political effect. That was not like this, which is meant for a more traditional terrorist purpose, that of creating a reaction.
Anders Breivik was mostly concerned with Norway, while this guy thinks globally--his murder comes after several years bouncing around the world.
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