Althouse: Old guys generally shouldn't be singing about how attracted they are to girls who are just 17...

February 18, 2019

Old guys generally shouldn't be singing about how attracted they are to girls who are just 17...

... but this is okay:

That took place in 2017, when Paul was 74 and Little Steven was 66.

64 comments:

gilbar said...: according to the Official RULES, you'd need to be no more than 20 for it not to be creepy
20/2 + 7 = 17; 2/18/19, 5:37 AM
gilbar said...: on The Other Hand,
the Age of Consent in Iowa is 16; which means it's TOTALLY LEGAL; 2/18/19, 5:38 AM
stevew said...: Yes, and a great rendition too. The fact that they are well known, accomplished musicians makes it clear that they are singing a song rather than lusting after underage girls?; 2/18/19, 5:41 AM
David Begley said...: 1. It’s just a song.

2. The continued popularity of music from that era only highlights how miserable most of today’s music is ex country music.; 2/18/19, 5:58 AM
Clyde said...: Has creepy uncle Joe Biden found his campaign song? Or perhaps You're Sixteen or Sweet Little Sixteen?; 2/18/19, 5:59 AM
Shouting Thomas said...: I watched 20 seconds, got bored and bailed.

Same old shit, right down to the predictable staging and the girl backup singers on the wings.

I pass by the clubs I used to play in and it's the same old story. Cover bands. Same old shit.

What an incredibly dead and dull era this is for popular music.; 2/18/19, 6:01 AM
rhhardin said...: Song of young lady forced into convent
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKmNTtgPauI

500 years ago they put some counterpoint in.; 2/18/19, 6:06 AM
Mark said...: "She was just 17, you know what I mean"

I am guessing that he means she was even younger than 17.; 2/18/19, 6:06 AM
rhhardin said...: Viols are guitars, but with the g string tuned down to f#.; 2/18/19, 6:11 AM
Leland said...: It was just a dance. It's not like he mixed her a micky while she had another cigarette wondering how she would get home in the cold.; 2/18/19, 6:18 AM
Ann Althouse said...: "the Age of Consent in Iowa is 16; which means it's TOTALLY LEGAL"

It's totally legal to look at a person and think about how beautiful they are. Also to dance, which is what the rest of the song is about.

Also, the line is "My heart went boom." No further-down body parts are mentioned.; 2/18/19, 6:21 AM
rhhardin said...: There should be a song about a table of young girls sitting down next to you at burger king and your moving away to avoid hearing them talk.; 2/18/19, 6:24 AM
Earnest Prole said...: And for our next number, "Stray Cat Blues"; 2/18/19, 6:24 AM
dustbunny said...: That song is why the Beatles became so popular, it was like an explosion of youth in a very controlled era. They were exuberant and bursting with life. If Paul can still sing it good for him.; 2/18/19, 6:40 AM
Laslo Spatula said...: From the Bygone Years of the Hair Metal Era, there was the Wisdom of Winger:

And just when I thought she was comin' to my door
She whispered sweet and brought me to the floor, she said
I'm only seventeen (seventeen)
But I'll show you love like you've never seen
She's only seventeen (seventeen)
Daddy says she's too young, but she's old enough for me

Seventeen-year-old girls are tricky that way.

I am Laslo.; 2/18/19, 6:42 AM
Darrell said...: What about 13?; 2/18/19, 6:44 AM
Hamlet's Fool said...: meh - maybe it's two old guys reminiscing about some 17 year old girl from when they were younger. Like, maybe, when they were 17 and at a dance.

Don't old guys like to talk about the good old days? When I get with old college buddies (something I do only every few years) that's what we tend to do.

#howcanIbeoffended; 2/18/19, 6:45 AM
Darrell said...: Nasty nasty nasty umm umm umm umm. Only thirteen and she knows how to nasty.; 2/18/19, 6:46 AM
Big Mike said...: Maybe Agnetha, Björn, Benny and Anni-Frid can re-release “ Dancing Queen.”; 2/18/19, 6:47 AM
Earnest Prole said...: And on keyboards tonight, special guest Roman Polanski.; 2/18/19, 6:56 AM
Ann Althouse said...: "There should be a song about a table of young girls sitting down next to you at burger king and your moving away to avoid hearing them talk."

The life of rhhardin.

Write your own song. Could be good as an emo plaint of some sort. I'm imagining something in this mode.; 2/18/19, 6:56 AM
Ann Althouse said...: @Hamlet's Fool

I agree. When an old person is inside their own dream, they can be young too.

I have 2 pictures of young Meade on my desk that I look at often. That guy is too young for me, so am I being creepy?; 2/18/19, 7:02 AM
Meade said...: Also, the line is "My heart went boom." No further-down body parts are mentioned.

He: Didn't need to be mentioned. We understood.
She: I know. That's because you are People Of the Boner.; 2/18/19, 7:04 AM
Meade said...: "I have 2 pictures of young Meade on my desk that I look at often. That guy is too young for me, so am I being creepy?"

Only whenever you suggest I grow my hair long again and ask if I still have that hippie peasant shirt.; 2/18/19, 7:19 AM
Earnest Prole said...: Young teacher, the subject
Of schoolgirl fantasy
She wants him so badly
Knows what she wants to be
Inside her there's longing
This girl's an open page
Book marking, she's so close now
This girl is half his age

Her friends are so jealous
You know how bad girls get
Sometimes it's not so easy
To be the teacher's pet
Temptation, frustration
So bad it makes him cry
Wet bus stop, she's waiting
His car is warm and dry

Loose talk in the classroom
To hurt they try and try
Strong words in the staffroom
The accusations fly
It's no use, he sees her
He starts to shake and cough
Just like the old man in
That book by Nabokov

Please don’t stand so close to me; 2/18/19, 7:19 AM
Ann Althouse said...: "Only whenever you suggest I grow my hair long again and ask if I still have that hippie peasant shirt."

Which is, like, every day.; 2/18/19, 7:21 AM
Oso Negro said...: Althouse for Minister of Sexual Attraction Authorization for Older Men! Really, without guidance from older American women, how would I POSSIBLY be able to direct my sex life to my own satisfaction? Honestly, I have always thought it was NO ONE'S business who I was fucking, but me and the party (parties) of the second part. Sure, in any given culture you may impose arbitrary limits to be enforced with guns. But some of us have flown your coop. It is ridiculous to think that our society has become so perverse to think that a 60-something man wanting to buttfuck another 60-something man is more fundamentally decent than a 60-something man being interested in a 17-year old girl. But go ahead! Believe what you want.; 2/18/19, 7:32 AM
gilbar said...: Ann Althouse said...
It's totally legal to look at a person and think about how beautiful they are. Also to dance, which is what the rest of the song is about.

Please tell that to Judge Moore?; 2/18/19, 7:33 AM
Tank said...: Mark said...

"She was just 17, you know what I mean"

I am guessing that he means she was even younger than 17.

I always thought this meant that, at 17, she was at her absolute most f***able prime.

============================================

Years ago when Billy Joel played a couple of concerts to close out Shea Stadium in NYC, he had a number of guests. McCartney came out near the end and, as he was walking on stage, they launched into this song, so, same thing, two old guys, and it was glorious. Probably the highlight of a really good show. 60,000 people rose as one screaming and dancing like we were all 17 (a lot of the audience, ironically, was 17 or thereabouts).

All that old Beatles music is just great to hear live by McCartney or even cover bands (contra ST's opinion). It reminds you how much FUN the Beatles were as you listen to one great, fun, song after another for a couple of hours.; 2/18/19, 7:35 AM
tcrosse said...: Also, the line is "My heart went boom." No further-down body parts are mentioned.

This refers to the great Charles Trenet hit "Boum", which was much more popular in the UK than in America, in which notre coeur fait «Boum».; 2/18/19, 7:38 AM
Big Mike said...: Hey! You two! Get a room.; 2/18/19, 7:41 AM
Wince said...: Given how often he sings into a single mic with true A-List rock icons, I have to believe Little Steven has to maintain excellent oral hygiene.; 2/18/19, 7:43 AM
alanc709 said...: McCartney was 20 when he wrote that song. But I'm sure that he's no longer entitled to sing his own songs about young love, because the modern left makes arbitrary rules as to what is or isn't appropriate.; 2/18/19, 7:50 AM
Daniel Jackson said...: On the other hand, there is always 19 (which is completely acceptable at any age).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91KMotxx81U; 2/18/19, 7:52 AM
Amexpat said...: A very innocuous song - not creepy like another 60's song, "Girl You'll Be a Woman Soon".

There are a couple of early John Lennon songs that couldn't be sung today. "Run for Your Life" is one example:

Well, I'd rather see you dead, little girl
Than to be with another man
You better keep your head, little girl
Or you won't know where I am

You better run for your life if you can, little girl
Hide your head in the sand, little girl
Catch you with another man
That's the end little girl

Well, you know that I'm a wicked guy
And I was born with a jealous mind
And I can't spend my whole life
Trying just to make you toe the line....; 2/18/19, 7:56 AM
Eleanor said...: When Simon and Garfunkel did their reunion tour, my daughter and I went to one of their concerts. While my daughter thoroughly enjoyed the concert, she said Paul Simon on the stage shaking his hips was like watching her grandfather, and it was hysterically funny. I suspect younger people than the majority of us who read Althouse are would have a different perspective on Sir Paul and Little Steven and falling in love with a 17 year old they saw at a dance. It's not that they wouldn't enjoy watching and hearing them. Just that it would be like Grandpa telling stories about his youth. Quaint.; 2/18/19, 8:05 AM
Ajnal said...: Unless you are the President.; 2/18/19, 8:09 AM
Heartless Aztec said...: What in the hell are 17 year old girls for to us dirty old men if not for lustful but unfulfillable desires? That's a heart attack waiting to happen. Best worshipped from afar I say.; 2/18/19, 8:09 AM
Bob R said...: Not the same without the countoff, "one, two, three, far.." Alos, good example of why Paul, John, and George always stood where they did. Lefties have to adapt.

And while it's still hard to sing it while playing that bass line, the melody is designed for it..all the emphasis on the downbeats. Written for a bass player, by a bass played.; 2/18/19, 8:11 AM
Fernandinande said...: Old guys generally shouldn't be singing about how attracted they are to girls who are just 17

Sure they should.

but this is okay:

"Okay" was a fairly accurate description of the performance.; 2/18/19, 8:34 AM
Ann Althouse said...: I saw Dion in concert in the 1990s. He had a very nice way of handling "Why must I be a teenager in love?"

He was great, by the way.; 2/18/19, 8:41 AM
Charlie said...: Has Paul been forced to apologize yet?; 2/18/19, 8:45 AM
Ann Althouse said...: @tcrosse

Thanks for that link. I only knew that song from its use — really nice use — in the movie "Toto the Hero."; 2/18/19, 8:49 AM
James K said...: Weird, I heard him singing, "She was just seven-ty."; 2/18/19, 9:07 AM
Stu Grimshaw said...: James K wins the thread.; 2/18/19, 9:37 AM
Meade said...: "She was just seven-ty."

And I know what you mean!; 2/18/19, 9:39 AM
Mary Beth said...: "...and ask if I still have that hippie peasant shirt."

If he doesn't have it, find a new one. You can probably find something close on eBay.; 2/18/19, 9:39 AM
Meade said...: 68, to be exact.

Next year...

NICE!; 2/18/19, 9:40 AM
Charlie Currie said...: A high school friend on FB was riffing on how bored he was being snowed in, being a SoCal surfer boy in his youth. He posted pic of the old movies he was watching and friends started giving suggestions. On my list i put, Help! and A Hard Days Night - because they make you feel young again.

Sunday Morning with the Beatles is one of my favorite radio programs.

My school mate and often dance partner is Olivia Arias Harrison.; 2/18/19, 10:08 AM
NorthOfTheOneOhOne said...: It probably needs to be pointed out that at the time McCartney wrote the song the British "left school" at 16. After that, depending on how you did on your O(rdinary)-Level exams and whether or not you sat for any A(cademic)-Level exams, you either went to university, art college*, technical college**, or you went to work, preferably in an apprenticeship***. Therefore it would not have been unusual for a 17 year old girl to be fair game for all sorts of shenanigans, including marriage.

*Like John Lennon, Pete Townshend, and Eric Clapton.
**The original members of Pink Floyd were all architecture students.
***Ringo was an apprentice metal fabricator, George Harrison and apprentice electrician, and Roger Daltrey was an apprentice sheet metal worker.; 2/18/19, 10:45 AM
Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...: didnt RBG want the AOC* lowered to 12?

*not that one-- she's already 12; 2/18/19, 10:56 AM
Meade said...: Hey oh!; 2/18/19, 11:09 AM
Mark said...: Maybe Agnetha, Björn, Benny and Anni-Frid can re-release “ Dancing Queen.”

I read a report a couple of months ago that ABBA is back in the studio.; 2/18/19, 11:17 AM
Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...: this song is considered haram in Muslim countries--

they dont like songs about older women; 2/18/19, 11:19 AM
n.n said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 2/18/19, 12:09 PM
Yancey Ward said...: Perhaps Joe Biden can weigh in.; 2/18/19, 12:13 PM
DavidD said...: The way I heard it was that the line “if you know what I mean” referred to the fact that, since the age of consent was 16, being 17 meant she was experienced—if you know what I mean.; 2/18/19, 12:23 PM
Zach said...: The way I heard it was that the line “if you know what I mean” referred to the fact that, since the age of consent was 16, being 17 meant she was experienced—if you know what I mean.

The way I heard it, the original line was "and no beauty queen," which they didn't like for obvious reasons. "You know what I mean" fits the meter, rhymes with the most important line, and is vague enough to let you fill in your own meaning.

In Tune In, Mark Lewisohn actually interviews the then-17 year old McCartney was with when he thought of the tune. It was a fairly tame date at the park, for what it's worth.; 2/18/19, 12:42 PM
wsw said...: The greatest "Side 1, Track 1, Album 1" song of all time. -WSW; 2/18/19, 3:40 PM
GRW3 said...: What I want to know is if Steve van Zandt's character in the Sopranos survived. When the revive the series and daddy's girl, and actual heir to the business, Meadow is in charge, it'd be great if at least of characters survived.; 2/18/19, 4:07 PM
rcocean said...: In the olden Times Grandma listened to Lawrence Welk. Now, they rock'n roll. Hint: Nobody wants to hear about old people sex. Even if you're Boomers.; 2/18/19, 5:18 PM
rcocean said...: 17 y/o girls - yes, how lovely they are. Then they open their mouths. Like RH, if want to get rid of men over 40 - just play a recording of teen-age girls chirping away with each other.; 2/18/19, 5:20 PM
Meade said...: Oh don’t be such a prude. Besides, obviously, 70 is the new 17.; 2/18/19, 8:12 PM
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