There are now two possibilities. The first of those is that Trump really was some “manchurian candidate” placed in the Oval Office by Russia and controlled from afar by Vladimir Putin. Many are unlikely to ever accept any other possibility, though the New York Times story does not suggest that this counterintelligence operation found any basis for the original allegation....
Now to the more intriguing theory that is more consistent with known facts.... Trump started to counterpunch against what he saw as a deep state conspiracy....
Trump had just won an unwinnable election against the establishment. He had expected much of the government to be hostile to his administration. He soon learned that the FBI secretly investigated some of his aides. Then the dossier story hit. The Clinton campaign first denied funding the dossier but later admitted that it funded the effort at a considerable expense, with the money hidden as legal costs by its lawyer and his firm....
The result is two separate narratives that fed off the actions of each other. There likely was bias in the initial assumptions, with a willingness at the FBI to believe Trump would be a tool of the Russians, and a willingness by Trump to believe the FBI would be a tool of the Clintons. Every move and countermove confirmed each bias....
[T]his could all prove to be the greatest, most costly example of cognitive bias in history, and now no one in this story wants to admit it.
January 13, 2019
"What if there were no collusion or conspiracy but simple cognitive bias on both sides, where the actions of one seemed to confirm precisely the suspicions of the other?"
Asks Jonathan Turley (at The Hill).
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199 comments:
It ain't cognitive bias when they are actually out to get you.
There is no evidence of Trump colluding with the Russians. There is clear evidence that the accusation was manufactured (e.g., in the book "Shattered"). There certainly is evidence (e.g., text messages) that it was and is a conspiracy. Turley may be correct in thinking it boils down to cognitive bias, but there is pretty good evidence for a conspiracy.
Oh... the establishment hasn't been colluding against Trump? It was just Trump's cognitive dissonance that Washington was out to get him? They're in trouble. If not now, history will get them.
Thinking more about it, perhaps Turley's inability to connect the dots of the conspiracy is his own cognitive bias.
"a willingness at the FBI to believe Trump would be a tool of the Russians"
No. This is not a matter of cognitive bias but of active subversion and delegitimation by any means necessary.
The Clinton campaign and the FBI eagerly used Russian disinformation via the Steele dossier and had no difficulty serving as "tools of the Russians" in their efforts. Fusion GPS was itself a "tool of Russians," which obviously did not prevent the U.S. deep state from using it.
Besides the dossier, the CIA ran an entrapment scheme abroad, trying to ensnare Trump hangers-on. Both the CIA and the FBI used the Russia narrative in part to justify complete intelligence access to Trump campaign info, including the unprecedented unmasking.
One of the questions still to be answered is whether John Brennan is the instigator of both the spy-ops and the dossier, who also connected the dots across government agencies--and who then became unhinged as Trump began to fight back.
Cognitive bias is the least of it. What we have here is severe political bias and abuse of power.
This sounds a little bit like a way for the FBI/DOJ/CIA conspirators to weasel out of the whole thing by saying oops, we just got a little carried away with our cognitive bias. Which is fine. Let them go. Better than civil war.
So now it was all just a big misunderstanding. Nothing further to learn nothing further to investigate.
There is not that much new under the sun.
George Washington's presidency was also one continuous battle with the "republicans" led by Thomas Jefferson, who were convinced Washington and his followers were plotting to install Washington as king of the United States and name Hamilton as his successor.
And Washington on his side kept a close watch on Jefferson et al. without telling them he was doing so.
He had expected much of the government to be hostile to his administration. He soon learned that the FBI secretly investigated some of his aides. Then the dossier story hit. The Clinton campaign first denied funding the dossier but later admitted that it funded the effort at a considerable expense, with the money hidden as legal costs by its lawyer and his firm....
All criminal behavior by the Deep state and Clinton Inc., will be ignored by the Deep State itself - including our corrupt Democratic press.
Confirmation bias is an interesting construct-and I would suggest that Professor Turley include vast swaths of the media into that construct; but the more compelling analysis is what are the facts the underlie the biases-and in this case, was there actually evidence so compelling that for the first time in American history an outgoing administration undertook an investigation of one of the two candidates of a major political party-an investigation that continued into that administration and led by an acting director of the FBI, charged with lying eventually, and whose wife received $700,000 in campaign contributions from a pro-Clinton PA.
So far, the evidence does not support the underlying rationale for the launch, but does more strongly suggest that a huge political scandal is hiding in plain sight because of the confirmation bias of the MSM that has invested all of its reputational capital in the anti-Trump bias.
The panic with RBG will get the Deep State Hack Democratic Press to re-up the bogus allegations against Trump that he is Putin's poodle.
Loyal hivemind leftists will eat it with a hope filled spoon.
I guess I'd have to go with the first three commenters here. Like a parent of years gone by would say, "who started this?" Who "whispered" into whose ears? The Clinton/Obama crime network has done this country in.
Team Deep State Mueller-Hillary-Maddow-CNN will never admit defeat.
The Anti-Federalists also continued to charge the Federalists of plotting with the British government to subvert the American Revolution, while they themselves most certainly did plot with the French revolutionaries to subvert the U.S. Government.
Trump’s belief in a deep state conspiracy is a lot closer to the truth.
Clinton’s and Obama’s people were/ are all involved, plus the cia and fbi, with assists from U.K., Australia, and Russia (disinformation). Unbelievable.
And mueller continuing cover up of this.
Not to mention 97% of justice department employee political donations went to Clinton? Newt Gingrich mentioned this in a column.
I cannot imagine what the hysteria would have been like if the FBI had investigated Bill Clinton after the then FBI director Louis Freeh was dismissed. There would have been innumerable stories along the lines of how dare they, the President was elected and these lower level bureaucrats are sabotaging him and defying the people's electoral choice. Now, it's a Republican being "investigated" and it's no problem.
> The Clinton/Obama crime network has done this country in.
Everything touched by the Clintons rots.
The Arkansas Mafia has had 30 years to metastacize. Holder, Comey, Lynch et al are a deep, dark passage in America's history that may well prevail. A couple more young SC justices would surely help.
And yet, Trump is not calling for mass firings and arrests of FBI and DOJ employees, which would surely be the correct course, if there really were a deep state conspiracy. Trump has really only been calling them out for cognitive bias all along, and explaining where the bias comes from - the "deep state's" preference for Clinton. No actual conspiracy needed. This looks like vindication for Trump.
The hack press:
Two years of narrative: "All hell is about to break loose!!!! Soon!!!!"
The hive-mind needs some action, baby.
If you expect cognitive bias, you see it everywhere.
Trump had...expected much of the government to be hostile to his administration.
He soon learned that the FBI secretly investigated some of his aides.
the New York Times story does not suggest that this counterintelligence operation found any basis for the original allegation
The Clinton campaign first denied funding the dossier but later admitted that it funded the effort at a considerable expense, with the money hidden as legal costs by its lawyer and his firm....
The result is two separate narratives that fed off the actions of each other. There likely was bias in the initial assumptions, with a willingness at the FBI to believe Trump would be a tool of the Russians, and a willingness by Trump to believe the FBI would be a tool of the Clintons.
If Turley had been writing in 1977, he could have described how New Yorkers had the irrational fear of being murdered and David Berkowitz had the irrational belief that he was compelled to shoot people by the demon who lived in his neighbor's dog, and so there were mistakes made on both sides.
Plow back in the history of appointments by the Clinton/Obama admin. Meade would recognize them as quack grass in our government. Gotta pull some by the roots.
The actual cause, he didn't mention, was the business needs of the news business.
You've got to have viewers, and soap opera women are the only loyal group.
It's soap opera or nothing.
oops, we just got a little carried away with our cognitive bias.
I suspect it's all been fake from the start, and everyone knows it. Fobbed up by the Clinton campaign on Nov. 8 as Crimso says.
It was just a matter of, let's run it up the flagpole, let's say it over and over...all in bad faith.
It is all a joke.
It's not both sides at fault but news business at fault.
Interesting theory, but it doesn't explain the creation and dissemination of the dossier or the misuse of it to get FISA warrants. It doesn't take in to account the FBI/DOJ giving Clinton a pass and their need to protect that cover up after her surprising defeat.
IMO, this whole story and investigation is about tying the Trump administration's hands. There are plenty of Republicans who want to keep those hands tied as well.
Having said all that, this opinion piece does seem like a crack in the dam.
Sometimes Turley is very naive, but then again remember he taught avenatti.
James Comey and Robert Mueller--the leading candidates for Worst Pubic Servant of His/Her* Generation.
Leaders of the FBI are supposed to see through this BS, not foment it.
*Hillary Clinton would also be in the running, except she never served the public.
The only possible explanation for Hillary!! not being elected when s->he was the most qualified candidate ever has to be manipulation of gullible rubes by those mean Russians. It just has to be. It cannot cannot be h->er fault!! Woman are not to blame.
Carol-I agree except that it wasn't just Clinton and her gang. It was the Obama administration that relaxed the rules on unmasking AND the approving of a larger group that could receive unvetted intelligence information. They were all In it together.
I still believe Obama and his gang worked very hard to get Fylnn fired. They needed him to NOT spill the crap that he knew about because he was part of their administration. They accomplished that goal. He's been silenced for YEARS and he still can't talk because his sentencing is still to happen. How much longer is that crazy judge going to allow this to go on?
In summary, the Clintons and the Obamas have screwed our country over mightily. It will take decades to recover, if ever.
As Secretary of State Hillary Clinton demonstrated her unfitness foray public office, as she attempted to blame the murders of our Embassy people in Libya on an innocent American. That she went on to receive the nomination revealed a deep and troubling problem in our country which the majority of patriots recognized by voting for Donald Trump as did. I have not voted often since voting for JFK in 1960. The last time voyaged was in 2004 n NYC when voted for MYSELF 2X at the same polling station. I voted and went back in to see if I could because there had been reports of voting corruption in Brooklyn. Is there ever.
The difficulty is that it is not a crime for an American presidential candidate to be "controlled from afar by Vladimir Putin". It is something the voters might wish to be aware of, but it is not something the FBI has any business investigating. The investigation was based upon lies cooked up by the Clinton campaign. Some at the FBI may not have known this when it started, but they all knew it soon enough, and they continued. This is an ongoing coup attempt. No less, no more.
That people were out to get Trump has been shown time and again.
That Trump was a tool of the Russians has yet to be shown after one of the most intensive investigations in history.
For anyone interested in the truth, that’s all that should matter.
Mueller-Hillary revenge.
The leftwing democratics are all about REVENGE.
Rather than say that the FBI was the Clintons' tool, I would say that the FBI has become the Democrat Party's opposition-research organization.
The whole investigation is like the Vietnam War: Long and costly, ill-conceived, badly conducted and impossible to extract ourselves from without someone losing face.
Maybe Turley would like to explain how these ever-vigilant protectors of the common weal came to gave immunity to all of Clinton's co-conspirators in return for absolutely nothing. Just a little over-zealous in their determination to protect the nation's largest security leak? James Comey has already helpfully explained why they didn't prosecute Clinton. He got on national TV, gave a long and comprehensive account of the damning evidence against her, and then said that "no reasonable prosecutor" would indict her. Which of Comey's little cognitive disabilities led to that egregious malpractice?
Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...
"The leftwing democratics are all about REVENGE."
I just wish that were true. What they are all about is stealing our country. Washington doesn't have lampposts high enough to hang these bastards from.
Which of these suspects voted for a communist for president? Maybe all of them, except, of course, Trump. Non citizens voting, felons too! Can't blame the brown acid for this one.
I have suggested this before here. My reading of the Lisa Page testimony is that she, and much of the rest of the top tier at the FBI were rabidly Russianphobic. Their agency had spent better than half a century chasing Soviet spies, and it overlayed everything they did, esp in their Counterintelligence Division. So, there was fertile ground there when the CIA and Steele came to them with totally fabricated stories about Trump/Russian collusion. They knew that this was exactly the sort of thing that those evil Ruskies would be doing. And that is where the confirmation bias came in - Brennan at the CIA and Steele at Fusion GPS played the FBI like a fiddle. They knew exactly what buttons to push to get them on the case. The Russian fear seemed almost palpable to me in Page's testimony. They had to drop everything, just in case Brennan and Steele were right, that the Russians were coming, and only the FBI could protect us from them, as they had been doing for the much of the previous century. The Confirmation Bias was why the FBI never looked carefully at all at the evidence against Trump and his campaign. Multiple parties, including Page there, have admitted that the FBI tried to confirm the allegations in the Steele Dossier, but no matter how hard they tried, they couldn't. Almost always, that would mean that they wouldn't use that information. But the Russians Are Coming!!! So they assumed that if they just tried a little harder, that the information could be confirmed, so ran with it anyway. Again, this isn't how the FBI normally operates. Normally, they wouldn't run with incriminating information until and unless it could be verified. But the Russians Are Coming!!! And then didn't back down after some of it was debunked and discredited, after they learned about the funding of tge information, etc. But the Russians Are Coming!!! So they persist.
This is a good example of the Limited Choice Fallacy. Either Trump was colluding or both sides were guilty of cognitive bias. Several commentators here have correctly identified another valid choice: that the FBI and other members of the government were trying to undermine Trump.
Donald Trump's campaign adviser George Papadopoulos was framed.
* MI-6 agent Joseph Mifsud summoned Papadopoulos from London to Rome, where Mifsud told Papadopoulos that Russian Intelligence had dirt on Hillary Clinton.
* Back in London, MI-6 agent Alexander Downer summoned Papadopoulos to a restaurant and asked Papadopoulos whether he had heard anything about Russian Intelligence having dirt on Hillary Clinton.
* Then CIA agent Stefan Halper likewise summoned Papadopoulos to ask whether he had heard anything about Russian Intelligence having dirt on Hillary Clinton.
* Based on this frame-up, the FBI initiated its Hurricane Crossfire investigation about supposed collusion between Trump's campaign staff and Russian Intelligence.
This was a frame-up of a Trump-campaign adviser -- not "cognitive bias"
=====
Then another campaign adviser, Carter Page, was framed as an active agent of Russian Intelligence. The FBI declared to a FISA judge that Page was an active agent of Russian Intelligence, based on a dossier written by a British dude, Christopher Steele, who obtained the incriminating information from Russian Intelligence insiders, identified as ...
* Source A
* Source B
* Source C
* Source D
* Source E
In other words, the FBI decided that it was reasonable to seize and search all of Page's communications -- past, present and future -- based on the British dude's say-so.
That was a deliberate frame-up of an innocent campaign adviser -- not "cognitive bias".
"The Russian fear seemed almost palpable to me in Page's testimony."
Bruce, how do you know she's not faking it, to provide a "patriotic" excuse for their actions?
The bloom is off the rose for never trumpers who still cling to this RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA fiction. Andy McCarthy spells it out plainly. THe swamp was out to get Trump from the get go. I want to see these assholes in jail now. At first I was willing to shrug and see them fired. Now i want them criminally prosecuted for malfeasance.
https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/andrew-mccarthy-fbi-russia-investigation-was-always-about-trump?fbclid=IwAR1cMasJxoPO5XNKGwIK339IMXYE6a1TiW38zMwKYt6dRRwBElpH9OaPzO4
If this were simply a big understanding, then DOJ/FBI would have issued an explanatory report to the public long ago.
1) Tell the public how this "investigation" began and developed.
2) Punish the culprits
3) Improve policies and procedures
4) Put the matter to rest and move on.
Instead, though, DOJ/FBI has been stonewalling tenaciously for the past two years. Furthermore, the stonewalling has no end in sight. The future report issued by Robert "The FBI Whitewasher" Mueller will be the ultimate cover-up.
The stonewalling is the proof that DOJ/FBI officials conspired actively to bring down Donald Trump as a political candidate and then as the President.
"The Russian fear seemed almost palpable to me in Page's testimony."
After reading the detailed article on her testimony, it is obvious that the FBI leadership was obsessed with Russia and would believe absolutely anything negative, regardless of how far fetched, about Russia. It is also clear that they would believe absolutely anything negative, regardless of how far fetched, about Trump. Made their decision nice and easy -- it affirmed their fanciful narrative about their two worst enemies collaborating.
After reading her testimony, I am forming a theory that Brennan and the CIA viewed the FBI leadership as useful idiots, that Brennan was the source of the dossier working with the Clinton campaign (according to Page, no one knows how the CIA had the dossier more than a month before the FBI to brief Reid), and the CIA exploited Comey's narcissism.
Russians coming leaked to presstitutes is the oldest FBI coup d’etat in K Edgar’s bag on tricks. But it is also
The highest crime of Treason known.
From the petty corruptions of the local government guys and gals to the grif and graft of the big hitters, from cheap help with “benefits” to the major graft of the Clintons, from the free stuff for the customs guy to the cash for letting the truckloads of dope in the deep staters had (and continue to have) a lot to protect. They saw the Tea Party as a threat and set the IRS on them. Then came Trump. Now he probably isn’t any different from any of the others but he is another mouth to feed. Maybe it’s as simple as that.
@Bruce: "My reading of the Lisa Page testimony is that she, and much of the rest of the top tier at the FBI were rabidly Russianphobic."
I have the greatest respect for Bruce Hayden, but, with apologies for repeating a point made previously, partisanship weighed more heavily than Russiaphobia.
The FBI did nothing against Obama and his minions as they pursued pro-Russian policies, they took no action against Hill and her minions after it became clear they used Russian operatives in their opposition research, they did nothing against Hill and her foundation after they promoted Russian interests in exchange for $millions, they took no action agent Fusion GPS as it was obviously working for Russians, and they kept up the campaign against Trump even when they had good reason to think the the basis for it was not some real Russia collusion but entirely phony allegations.
Somehow, Russiaphobia only came into play against Trump, when it suited Democratic interests.
The other question I have is did none of these fuckheads every worry about the prospect of what they would do if they were wrong? How do we allow people like that to hold this kind of power? If we were going to give them the benefit of the doubt, that this was some sort of understandable blind spot, we are saying it was fine that no one at the DOJ or FBI could see the down side if they investigated a president elect, potentially oust him, about to assume power and they were blind wrong? Fuck these people. I want to see jail time now. I want Comey and Brennan to have sleepless nights and spent lots and lots of money trying to stay out of jail. That would be a fair resolution to this.
isn't it about time in this post, for someone to
smear
[smir]
VERB
damage the reputation of (someone) by false accusations; slander.
our President?
I mean, i'll bet there's someone out that would Gladly, damage the reputation of (Trump) by false accusations; you know, slander?
So for 30 or so years that Trump was in NY, they loved him, had his own show, hobbed around with celebrities, was invited everywhere , had great parties, begged him to run for president, so one day, when he was running for peresident, he woke up and called Putin and said I want to be a spy, a really bad spy novel, insanity at it's best.
"There are now two possibilities. The first of those is that Trump really was some “manchurian candidate” placed in the Oval Office by Russia and controlled from afar by Vladimir Putin... Now to the more intriguing theory that is more consistent with known facts.... Trump started to counterpunch against what he saw as a deep state conspiracy...."
Huh. What about a third possibility - there was a deep state conspiracy? The deep state had cognitive bias, but how does that say that Trump wasn't right?
"Bruce, how do you know she's not faking it, to provide a "patriotic" excuse for their actions?"
I don't. It was my gut feeling reading her testimony. Sure, she could have been faking it, but she seems to have been one of the straighter shooters of those who have testified.
What is interesting to me is that so many of these people seem to really believe that they are patriotic, and did what they did because of their patriotism, even when it involved violating their oaths of office to support and protect our Constitution. Definitely some serious Cognitive Dissonance going on there. My hypothesis right now is that it is a result of deep seated institutional Russiaphobia on the part of tge National Security people at the FBI. But with all hypotheses, I could be proven wrong. Indeed, up until recently I thought, esp from the early Page/Strzok text messages, that they, along with the rest of the top tier at the FBI that had been involved here were rank partisans. But Page seemed to have had no love for Crooked Hillary, and claims to have only begrudgingly supported her as tge lesser of two evils.
I would say to Turley that it is paranoia to believe someone is out to get you, or is spying on you, when they aren't. But is realism when they actually are out to get you, or to spy on you. The reason that this isn't two sided Confirmation Bias is because, starting about the time that Trump sewed up the Republican nomination, the Deep State started working against him (with, for example, Misfud approaching Carter Page). They were trying to infiltrate the Trump campaign by the time he was formally nominated, and we're working on justifying formally spying on him at least as early as August, and instituted fraudulently acquired FISA warrants to spy on him and his campaign in August. It was only when Adm Rogers informed the newly elected Trump that the FBI had acquired those FISA warrants did Trump first find out that the FBI was spying on him, and the Deep State was out to take him down. Instead of Confirmation Bias all the way around, what we have here, in this article, is a classic case of False Equivalents, another favorite tactic of the Dems and the left.
My "cognitive bias" is that Schlump is NOT Putin's puppet; okay maybe his sock puppet. He also would not stoup to waste level to give Putin a blowjob. Rather, he is a mere Cocksack of Putin's "Make Russia Great Again" grand douchey endeavor. Stephen Colbert suddenly found himself in hot water for inventing the term "cock holster" to describe Schlump. The Russian words for that can be found here: https://translate.google.com/#view=home&op=translate&sl=it&tl=ru&text=cock%20holster
I like the French best: étui à coq
The FBI knew Hillary took 145$ million dollars from Russia and made favorable decisions for them handing them control of 20% of our uranium.
They decided it was trump colluding with information they knew was fake and knew came from the Clinton campaign.
This is not bias.
This is active conspiracy and sedition.
The argument in the Hill piece is plausible only if one limits the scope of the question to the very narrow matter of the investigation of and the spying on Trump and his administration. This is that which naturally attracts the most immediate attention. However, this all exists within a larger context.
The corruption of the DOJ and the FBI did not begin in 2016, nor that of the entire US political system and MSM in 2015, nor indeed that of the entire US leadership class, and of the majority of US civic institutions and educational systems. That all has been a matter of decades of ongoing collapse into decadence.
With attention to perspective and understanding of context it all fits comfortably into, say, Angelo Codevilla's analysis, which long predates the Trump phenomenon. This is not a matter of "mistakes were made", but of the entirely predictable reactions of a corrupt ruling class to a serious challenge from below. Its certainly not the only case of such a reaction.
"I want to see jail time now. I want Comey and Brennan to have sleepless nights and spent lots and lots of money trying to stay out of jail. That would be a fair resolution to this."
Besides fair, it is the only outcome that has any chance of keeping this from happening again. But I am beyond hope that it will happen
Bruce Hayden at 10:34 AM
... Misfud approaching Carter Page ...
MI-6 agent Joseph Mifsud approached George Papadopoulos (not Carter Page).
Although Mifsud is an agent of MI-6, the FBI has been insinuating, to this day, the nonsense that he is an agent of Russian Intelligence.
I'm believe this is more likely.
"It is increasingly obvious that there is a pony in the heap of Mueller Trump-Russia dung, and the pony is a corrupt FBI and CIA covering up their unlawful conduct. Even the best efforts by the wrongdoers' media mouthpieces are not sufficient to keep us from seeing that."
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2019/01/there_is_a_pony_in_the_mueller_heap_of_dung.html?fbclid=IwAR3GkAU3kTweMMMRK27g6Y6Xx1NDjtmxr0yiDD2dqSTkbOpvb8rNEfpWe_8#ixzz5cV4vjBs3&f
Trumpet blared: Stephen Colbert suddenly found himself in hot water for inventing the term "cock holster" to describe Schlump.
Stephen Colbert invented no such thing. He did invent new ways of animal cruelty like forcing camels to walk slip and fall on slippery ice. I'm surprised you give that corn hole the time of day.
hey, buwaya is back....
Bruce said..."But Page seemed to have had no love for Crooked Hillary, and claims to have only begrudgingly supported her as tge lesser of two evils."
Is this from her testimony or is there evidence of this in her texts with Strzok?
Russophobia, or Putin-phobia, more accurately, was a very new and deliberately created propaganda line. Pre-Trump Putin and his antics were viewed as a minor annoyance at best. The EU and NATO and the US certainly weren't taking him seriously, no matter how much the Poles complained. Indeed, the trend was to play along with Russian interests, to the extent these even mattered. In this modern world Russia is simply not important.
This is why there is still no NATO frontline force worth the name permanently deployed in Poland or the Baltics, and no US antimissile systems in Poland.
The NATO states still don't take Putin seriously. The US, under Trump, has had to repeatedly kick them on the backside to get anything moving, with little success.
Bruce: "My hypothesis right now is that it is a result of deep seated institutional Russiaphobia on the part of tge National Security people at the FBI."
This is demonstrably incorrect.
Mueller,as FBI dir, and this gang at the FBI and obambi DOJ covered up and hid from congressional oversight the existence of an on-going corruption investigation involving bribery and other violations on the part of individuals and entities involved in the Uranium One deal.
That investigation should have stopped the deal in its tracks, but all of LLR Chucks hero dems and obama leftists hid it....and the deal went through...
...and lots and lots of dems got richer.
Including the Clintons, directly and thru their slush fund foundation, and the Podestas.
Mueller and Comey both had to personally approve the use of democrat opposition research firms FusionGPS and Crowdstrike (dossier and hillary server-wipe respectively) in use of the FISA databases!!
Full access to the raw intercept data of every citizen...by the worst of the worst democrat oppo firms...which was used earlier to spy on congress (Brennan admitted under oath) and opponents if the corrupt Obama Iran deal.
There is no innocent explanation for any of this.
Now toss in Lois Lerners IRS hand delivering 25 CD-ROMs to obamas DOJ, bypassing traceable electronic transfer oversight, then pleading the 5th.
This is all precisely what it appears to be.
Quit sugar coating it. They were all absolutely corrupted.
" Both the CIA and the FBI used the Russia narrative in part to justify complete intelligence access to Trump campaign info, including the unprecedented unmasking."
-- The unmasking part is the most bewildering to me. We have a good chunk of this investigation based on unmasking orders allegedly given by Samantha Power... who claims she never gave the order and other people falsely used her name to do it.
Can you imagine any private organization where a VP or other bigwig says, "Whoa, I didn't give the greenlight on that. Someone impersonated me to do that," and everyone just shrug and say, "Well, que sera, sera."
You aren't going to solve anything by jailing Comey et al., even if that were a likely outcome, which it isn't.
The context of this fight is enormously larger, and systemic.
A better start to solving your cultural-social malaise, which drives your politics and institutional corruption, would have to start with burning down Harvard.
Bruce Hayden said...
What is interesting to me is that so many of these people seem to really believe that they are patriotic, and did what they did because of their patriotism, even when it involved violating their oaths of office to support and protect our Constitution
The road to hell is paved with good intentions
True Believers aren't Part of the Problem: They ARE the Problem
If you truly believe in what you are doing; you'll do it By Any Means Necessary. What's bending a few rules (or killing a few million Untermenschen) if it gets you closer to your final solution?
Disinfectant made the cockroaches scatter.
No words of wisdom from the usual suspects.
I like Jonathan Turley, but his essay is the perfect example of a false dilemma. This isn't an either/or situation. Indeed, we literally know with certainty that the FBI and DoJ in the Obama Administration, and afterwards, was out to take Trump down. You can ask yourself a revealing question- given the exact same facts except it was Clinton's and not Trump's campaign, would "Crossfire Hurricane" have been started by the Obama FBI/DoJ?
buwaya said...
“You aren't going to solve anything by jailing Comey et al., even if that were a likely outcome, which it isn't.
The context of this fight is enormously larger, and systemic.
A better start to solving your cultural-social malaise, which drives your politics and institutional corruption, would have to start with burning down Harvard.“
The key to accomplishing a goal is to take positive steps forward.
Start with throwing the weasels in jail.
"My reading of the Lisa Page testimony is that she, and much of the rest of the top tier at the FBI were rabidly Russianphobic."
-- Eh, I don't know about that. Remember: They knew how much Russia was actually spending. They knew that Trump's policies would weaken Russia more than help them, while Clinton was willing to work with Putin despite a personal loathing of each other.
Not only that, but even the Russian lawyer they just indicted was someone they approved to work in America during the Obama-era. It seems more that "The Russians" were a convenient excuse to do what they wanted; we know this because when given a chance to actually try one of the Russian companies, Mueller took a powder instead of taking the case.
When is this Mueller Russia/Trump crap going to end?
Two years and counting and no hard evidence against Trump.
Endless.
Also, why does firing Comey imply "Russian agent?" Were all of the people on all sides of the political spectrum who called for Comey to be fired ALSO investigated as possible Russian agents?
It seems that Clinton's Water Closet was either a minor component or a rationalizing cause of eight trimesters of warlock hunts and trials since inauguration, but there was only original collusion... between the DNC, British agents, factions in post-coup Kiev, and domestic and foreign special and peculiar interests. This progressed as a purely domestic conspiracy to color and influence Americans and elections, apparently for purposes of "academic" research, press profits, and democratic leverage.
On Twitter, people still say that Trump urged the Russians to hack Hillary's email. Now we learn that the FBI interpreted things the same way. America will never unite on an interpretation of simple facts, let alone complex patterns. It is all one screen/two movies from here.
When Americans failed to vote for the correct candidate, Russians were colored to take their place in the mine. Where before this kind of action was justified by beliefs in Jew privilege, today there is White privilege, and for Soviet-era expatriates, Russian privilege.
Lemme boil it down. A whole bunch of grifters are trying to keep the grift going. Because money.
Buwaya is correct- it does look like the beginning of the "mistakes were made" phase of the retreat. How else do you explain how the entire false investigation was, after all, the fault of the man being investigated?
But... didn't Russia have the emails BEFORE Trump urged them to do so?
I thought that was the problem; no one knows exactly when Russia got access to stuff, because her private email was so thoroughly borked security wise.
"When is this Mueller Russia/Trump crap going to end?
Two years and counting and no hard evidence against Trump."
When you've got a tiger by the tail, you can't let go.
You can watch Obama collude with Russia on video. Where were the Russophobes then?
Remember shortly after Obama's inauguration, a ring of Russian spies were arrested? They had been operating in the US for 20 years. A week later, they were all back in Russia. None of them were interrogated. That seemed very odd to me at the time. The media were spectacularly incurious about the whole thing and it has largely been memory-holed.
Where were the FBI's legendary Russophobes?
And here is the first shot in the Democrat civil war. The Republican's war is finished and settled, the Weekly Standard closed down. The country club Republicans have gone back to their country clubs.
Two years of resistance, concerted and organized press attacks, a full Justice department offensive with backup by the judiciary has birthed, a drumroll please, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.
Obama was ok. Black, educated and on a short leash. Clinton was supposed to be the anti Obama, a centrist like her hubby but without the dick. But the extremists have taken over the party, with the energy of the resistance being expressed as openly socialist.
So Turley shows up, likely after perusing some of the subscription and financial numbers of the media, saying it was all a mistake. We are the adults in the room. Listen to us. Please. Pretty please!!
Now to find some Democrat who isn't a raving lunatic to run for president.
The FBI was/is run by partisan criminals who abused their offices unsuccessfully to influence the outcome of the Presidential election by indisputably whitewashing Clinton, the more likely Russian collaborator, and smearing Trump without evidence or probable cause. Mueller is an extension of that abuse with the further motivation of covering up the criminality in the Obama/Holder/Lynch/Mueller/Comey DOJ cabal.
The left sucks up the propaganda promulgated by the criminals through the leftmedia and other useful idiots because 45 years of Soviet “active measures” primarily in our education system has deprived them of the ability to think critically. (See: Yuri Besmenov.)
There is nothing “cognitive” about the bias of the left.
Re the Democrats -
We have to realize that Ocasio-Cortez was not the predictable creature of minority politics, but of the New York media-money machine.
There was a fascinating article a few months ago that pointed out her white-Irish Democrat opponent, a traditional Democrat machine politician, actually campaigned in and took the lead among OC’s own Puerto Rican constituents. HE was the “grassroots” ethnic politician.
OC won through the votes of the liberal-bourgeois upscale whites, the gentrifiers of her district.
OC is a vehicle for the New York media-money complex. Someone held an audition for that role, and she got the part.
So the FBI'a excuse is that they really did think Trump was a Russian agent, but were wrong. Good luck with that.
Chickenlittle said...
“hey, buwaya is back..”
And Michael K commented recently too.
Both these developments make me happy.
Missed you, buwaya!!! :-)
Dreams' link to American Thinker , worth reading
I suspect Trump may have gotten suspicious when intercepts, tightly edited, kept showing up in The New York Times and the Washington Post of conversations his aides had as part of the transition.
Why does the tag say "Rick" Turley?
Imagine
Imagine no collusion, I wonder if you can.
Nothing but cognitive bias, suspicion of the other man.
You may say I’m a Trumper.
But I’m not the only one.
I hope some day you’ll join us.
And the deep state will be gone.
Suppose Turley recognizes what the evidence indicates, but is horrified by the idea that the FBI might be ideologically corrupt. Then his column is easily understandable as an attempt to resolve his own cognitive dissonance.
You are not dealing with individuals.
This personalization is a huge waste of time, distraction upon distraction.
Comey and co. are just disposable components of a much greater whole.
What you have here is an integrated politico-cultural-economic system, and indeed a caste that inhabits and owns it.
It’s decadence has made it insular and stupid, and generated hatred from those they rule.
Their opponents are a poorly organized mass with, for the moment, a figurehead.
Figureheads attract attacks, they are obvious hate-symbols, standing in for the masses they represent.
Turley makes a lot of sense--but, i would say that since it is what i have thought all along.
But my main takeaway is that I looked at the comments on Turley,s piece, and The Hill's commenters remain utterly in the sewer, where they have been since late 2016.
A better start to solving your cultural-social malaise, which drives your politics and institutional corruption, would have to start with burning down Harvard.
And then we send Harvard's professors and administrators on forced marches to rural work projects, right?
Meanwhile, Trump never leaves the white house, and continues to do the country's work.
Not to mention the whole Trump Tower to Alpha Bank fake news attack. Then when he dumped his ISP for leaking his private comms, complete with a misleading interpretation, news stories came out that he had "taken steps to avoid surveillance." Surveillance that hadn't even met the low bar of being authorized by a FISA court, but was done by name "activist" with access to DNS logs.
Turley's column is too stupid to be 'cognitive' - so that leaves deliberate , intentional 'bias' on his part and those who paid him for such garbage.
The corruptocrats From Mueller to Hillary to the hack pres to the corrupt FBi better manufacture some Russian collusion crimes fast.
Yes, yes..it's all been an unfortunate misunderstanding.
Channeling Emily Litella..
"But my main takeaway is that I looked at the comments on Turley,s piece, and The Hill's commenters remain utterly in the sewer, where they have been since late 2016."
Being pro-life, I hate to pick on unborn babies, but Schlump has been in the sewer since his perverse conception at negative nine months before hatching. It was one rotten egg.
Trump's comment was meant to have the Russians "help" find the missing HRC emails. In a humorous way. Not to spy on her. That anyone can speak that his quip was meant to be a plea to Putin is just un-effing-believable. The Left saw it as a chance to blame Trump and lay groundwork that Trump was behind the so-called Russian hack.
THEOLDMAN
It ain't cognitive bias when they are actually out to get you.
Interesting, chuck is first and I agree with his statement. Alas the FBI presented evidence that it could not vet as sufficient grounds to spy on an American citizen and, by extension, a rival campaign. The attempt to pass this off as "cognitive dissonance" rather than "conspiracy" is equivalent to suggesting something is "extremely careless" rather than "grossly negligent".
Blogger Not Sure said...
Suppose Turley recognizes what the evidence indicates, but is horrified by the idea that the FBI might be ideologically corrupt. Then his column is easily understandable as an attempt to resolve his own cognitive dissonance.
--
I've read and heard numerous times the irreparable damage the involved agencies would suffer if they were held to account.
As if leaving them unchecked isn't.
It's like some sort of battered spouse syndrome.
Crimso said...
Thinking more about it, perhaps Turley's inability to connect the dots of the conspiracy is his own cognitive bias.
Yep.
These stories are making me think we are close to the end game of the Mueller investigation. The final narrative piece was to inoculate the members of the CI community against allegations they were partisan.
The solution to that is to establish the Narrative that they were just patriots responding to statements made by Trump.
They know that in any impeachment trial or even response to a Mueller report Trump has the ability to declassify a lot of material that will make the CI community (FBI/CIA) look like crooks.
They need an alternative narrative to fill the octoboxes on CNN during a roundtable.
Note, the argument that they worried that Trump's desire for Russia to come forward with Hillary's emails means that Trump asked them to hack Hillary's server is silly on it's face. The server had been shutdown and disconnected for years at the time he made those comments.
Unfortunately, if the "deep-state" exists. They are likely to get away with it. And it will happen again. This time without members being as silly as texting about it!
"Note, the argument that they worried that Trump's desire for Russia to come forward with Hillary's emails means that Trump asked them to hack Hillary's server is silly on it's face. The server had been shutdown and disconnected for years at the time he made those comments."
That'll be news to Inga.
Re Harvard -
Yes, this is going to come to that type of policy. By someone.
The people who will be marched off - that depends on who wins.
Who exterminates the other is the question.
There is no reconciliation possible, that I can see.
This is in effect an impending war of religion, moreover compounded by mutually irreconcilable material interests, and besides that the leadership caste is decadent and unable to think creatively. They are incapable of coming up with a modus vivendi.
Note, the argument that they worried that Trump's desire for Russia to come forward with Hillary's emails means that Trump asked them to hack Hillary's server is silly on it's face. The server had been shutdown and disconnected for years at the time he made those comments."
Any thread-lie-BS strand they can use to keep the hivemind in a state of frenzy, the hacks will use it.
Trump's joke is the biggest joke of all.
Where is the part where Trump was wrong?
There was also collusion between the President and executive staff to spy on reporters, Americans citizens, and the Republican presidential candidate. There has been a progressive (exceeding eight trimesters) collusion (without borders) between certain left-of-center interests and the press to influence elections and violate civil rights.
Summary:
a. The left establishment was out to get Trump.
b. Trump thought the left establishment was out to get him.
c. Both sides were wrong.
???
At what point will Trump finally lower the boom and unclassify this entire shitshow? Wasn't it 2 months ago we were getting assurances from some of the swamp creatures that Mueller was going to wrap this thing up and that Trump should hold his fire lest he be accused of "tampering" with the Muller probe? Well FUCK THESE PEOPLE! Let it fly Mr.President. There is no reason to believe Mueller will ever stop his investigation. Its obvious at this point these shitheels have way more to worry about than you do so let er' rip!
The left hated Comey for investigating Hillary AT ALL. Is there any doubt if Hillary had managed to win the election that she would have also fired Comey?
Of course she would have, and the hivemind would have cheered.
Bruce Hayden said...
"The reason that this isn't two sided Confirmation Bias is because, starting about the time that Trump sewed up the Republican nomination, the Deep State started working against him (with, for example, Misfud approaching Carter Page)."
Likewise, reportage regarding Trump during the primary was neutral to mildly favorable ("historic, unprecedented"). Then, after he had the nomination, out cane the oppo research which included the Billy Bush tape. So my observation is that the Deep State, with the cooperation of nearly all media outlets, wanted Trump to be a Todd Akin type of candidate. Instead they got Archie Bunker and to this day they can't explain his appeal.
Even in defeat the hivemind wanted Comey fired (for losing the election for Hillary) until Trump actually did it.
"Is this from her testimony or is there evidence of this in her texts with Strzok?"
It was in Page's closed Congressional hearing testimony. Definitely not in her text messages with Strzok, where she looked more partisan. Of everyone involved, she seems a bit brighter in appearing to have detected much more quickly that she and the rest of the cabal at the FBI had crossed ethical and legal lines. My guess is that she cooperated with the OIG somewhat voluntarily, seeing which way the wind was blowing, as contrasted with her buddy Strzok, who was still in significant denial when he finally showed up to testify before Congress, and was making stupid facial expressions for the camera. The absurdity is that at his peak, he was the #2 in the Counterintelligence Division at the FBI, and was put in charge of both Midyear Exam and Crosswind Hurricane investigations. My expectation is that thousands of hard working FBI agents were mortified at that behavior before Congress. Page, on the other hand, seemed to open up a lot in her closed hearing, and sounded almost candid and honest.
Bruce, I don't really believe Lisa Page to be honest. She's a greasy, weasley liar just like her lover Peter Strzok. A couple of skanky adulterers don't make the most compelling witnesses to be honest. Would it really surprise us after all the dust clears and things are unclassified that she lied during her testimony to congress? Not me. So far this is just an alibi to help them explain a soft coup that failed, that somehow it was just a honest mistake because they were so gosh darn worried about the Russians. Give me a friggin' break.
"It was in Page's closed Congressional hearing testimony."
So, again, we don't have independent evidence. Only Page's self-serving testimony.
The first of those is that Trump really was some “manchurian candidate” placed in the Oval Office by Russia and controlled from afar by Vladimir Putin.
If you truly believe this - and I know there are many who do - you are messed in the head and there is no reasoning with you.
In short, you're insane.
"The FBI was/is run by partisan criminals who abused their offices unsuccessfully to influence the outcome of the Presidential election by indisputably whitewashing Clinton, the more likely Russian collaborator, and smearing Trump without evidence or probable cause. Mueller is an extension of that abuse with the further motivation of covering up the criminality in the Obama/Holder/Lynch/Mueller/Comey DOJ cabal."
I commented on the whitewashing of Clinton earlier. In the recently leaked Lisa Page testimony, she laid the blame for the Clinton whitewash clearly at the feet of the DoJ. According to her, they are the ones who refused to prosecute Clinton for gross negligence (and ignored that the Official Records Act is strict liability) on the basis that there was no cases where they had successfully prosecuted Espionage Act violations based on the gross negligence standard, so the statute would be deemed by the courts as today vague to survive a Due Process challenge. They, of course, ignored that the DoJ has routinely prosecuted other criminal statutes under that standard, that it is routinely litigated in civil court, that Clinton is a Yale trained attorney, and two of her closest aides, who were up to their elbows in setting up the illegal email server are also attorneys too. And refused to consider trying to impute intent from the frequency of violations, which they routinely do in other cases. That wasn't Comey making that decision - it was DoJ management. When Comey told the public that no prosecutor would try a Gross Negligence Espionage Act violation case, he was literally correct, but highly misleading. No prosecutor would do so because they were under specific orders by AG Lynch and DAG Yates not to, likely originating in the Obama WH. Moreover, the DoJ refused to provide the FBI with prosecutors, which meant no subpoenas, no search warrants, and no grand jury. According to Page, this meddling and intervention in one of their investigations, for purely political reasons was resented greatly (of course) by the FBI. Much of this has long been suspected, but Page confirmed it with her responses to specific questions asked for just that reason, confirming that it was mostly the Obama/Lynch/Yates DoJ that was mandating and effectuating the whitewash of Crooked Hillary's thousands of Espionage and Official Records Acts violations.
Something else - the Mueller investigation appears to be a direct, and almost immediate, response by the FBI and DoJ for Trump having had FBI Dir Comey fired for cause. Revenge, in short, by the Deep State.
What Turley is doing is a time-honored (time-dishonored?) Washington practice called "floating a trial balloon." Probably the heaviest use of the practice came during the time of Bill Clinton's impeachment as the Democrat establishment floated trial balloon after trial balloon to try to get the public on the side of their guy. They tried pushing "oral sex isn't really sex," but not many folks bit on that one (accidental pun). Finally they found "it was only a little bit of lying about sex," which resonated with women (other than my wife, of course) who tell their husbands that the sex was great, and with guys who say "of course I'll pull out."
Unfortunately for Turley his little trial balloon, however well it tested with focus groups, seems to have ignited something akin to a preference cascade. Judging from the comments upthread a large majority of us think that (1) the FBI perhaps should have investigated whether Russians had people inside the Trump campaign, but that (2) the FBI was wildly out of line because (3) it should have investigated the Clinton campaign just as hard, and (4) the FISA requests, electronic surveillance of Trump campaign offices, and the unmasking of Americans involved with the Trump campaign were even further out of line.
Turley is trying to make the case that "it was all one big mistake" and "both sides were at fault." Judging from the comments, neither of those is going to fly. The whole mess has gone on too long from the side of the FBI and DOJ, they have stonewalled too hard, and have been too far out of line, and a massive conspiracy on the part of key people in the DOJ and FBI is not just some wacky misinterpretation of the facts.
Marcus observes: Trump's comment was meant to have the Russians "help" find the missing HRC emails. In a humorous way. Not to spy on her. That anyone can speak that his quip was meant to be a plea to Putin is just un-effing-believable. The Left saw it as a chance to blame Trump and lay groundwork that Trump was behind the so-called Russian hack.
Indeed. The Left [including the MSM] always takes Trump seriously when he's being facetious but never when he's being serious.
(eaglebeak)
Turley's argument is ridiculous.
Before Trump was inaugurated, he had Comey telling him basically we got the goods on you and pissing prostitutes (famous trip to Trump Tower by Comey, Clapper, et al.) -- followed immediately by leak of existence of Steele Dossier to the press -- and then he has Mike Rogers arriving in New York City (without having informed Obama or anyone in Intel Community), apparently to tell him he's being wiretapped, whereupon -- on the same day --Trump moves Transition Team ops to Bedminster.
Cognitive bias is a profoundly stupid theory which fails to explain anything on the FBI side--Nellie Ohr, Strzok-Page exchanges, Andrew McCabe, insurance policy, Clinton/Fusion GPS ops, Christopher "I hate Trump" Steele's involvement, etc.
Oh--also doesn't explain Comey-Susan Rice-Obama meeting right before Inauguration to discuss Things, followed by Susan Rice's Inauguration Day memo to file.
Don't ever hire Turley for your lawyer.
So good to have Buwaya back and his macro view of what is going on culturally with this mess. I have to ask how do our oh so clever swamp creatures get themselves out of this jam? The whole soft coup is so monstrous its going to take many more DOJ & FBI scalps and scapegoats to make right. If the Oklahoma City bombing was seen as payback for Ruby Ridge and Waco what sort of blow back can we expect if the swamp tried and failed at a soft coup removal of a president and half of the country is denied seeing these pricks frog marched to Leavenworth, KS? Did they really think this far? If not god help us.
Turley is ignoring a few salient facts about Hillary Clinton.
She is now, and always has been, a power-mad climber, marrying Bill as a convenience on her way to the destination given her by the gods, the Presidency. Her activities during Bill's campaign(s) and Presidency consisted of lying and inventing conspiracies which invariably were "against" her--and Bill.
She and her husband worked what is arguably the most lucrative world-wide con job ever pulled off, playing Red China against Russia for ultra-large dollars: China during the ascendancy and rule of Bill, and Russia during her ascendancy. True to form, she then lied about Russia and reversed it into a conspiracy against HER.
Now, were her history one as pure as the driven snow, or even as relatively clean as that of Paul Ryan, Turley's vapid droolings may have some traction. But she's not, and not even close. This woman makes Lady MacBeth look like Snow White.
The top people realized they needed to get the goods on Trump in case he actually won and their other nefarious stuff would be revealed. That's how Hoover stayed in power for decades.
People need to go to prison and lose their pensions, or this will happen to every Republican candidate.
How many other candidates were spied on before Trump sewed up the nomination? Looks like they would be curious, but they're AWOL.
Turley reminds me of Andrew McCarthy, who couldn't bring himself to believe in FBI/DOJ corruption.
Jnseward@8:50AM All ready to just let Democrat party members get away with treason because prosecuting their crimes and treachery would be bad for the country.
Sure, pal. We'll just look the other way, because Democrat party members shouldn't have to pay for their crimes. Just let them go... NO! Fucking kill them!
FOOD FOR THOUGHT:
Mueller announces he will or has delivered his report to AG Barr.
No active investigation.
Trump immediately releases the classified documents, searchable, online.
Without an investigation there cannot be a problem with obstruction.
And for the few days before Mueller's report leaks, the truth will out.
hey, buwaya is back....
The paranoid who thinks, er, believes, the devil is a real creature, out to getcha.
And Michael K commented recently too.
LOL. Oops, I meant "hurrah."
For what it's worth, my limited anecdotal experience with the FBI, Secret Service, & NSA.
Over my years in IT in the DC area, I've had a TS FBI clearance, worked with SS at the Executive Office complex for 8 years, & worked onsite as a contractor at NSA at Fort Meade. I've had many opportunities to go permanent with the various Intelligence agencies, & I always turned them down. Why? Well, I'm not a good fit for Intelligence because I have a big mouth & an active conscience. But, mostly, I really didn't like the corporate culture of the Intelligence agencies. It was always "Us vs Them", and they were always snarly & nasty to "Them", while far too understanding of the incompetence & abuses of "Us". Everything that I have seen from Federal Law enforcement & Intelligence sadly fits this pattern (e.g. how the hell did Edward Snowden smuggle out all those NSA documents, when supposedly no media is permitted in or out of those SCIFs?).
Jeezus.
Dad29 said: "Turley is ignoring a few salient facts about Hillary Clinton."
As the "Pied Piper Memo" demonstrated, the Clinton campaign and the DNC planned to "elevate" Trump to credibility as a presidential candidate. It only stands to reason that there would be a follow-up plan to bring him down. Clinton was pushing the line that Trump was owned by Russia financially no later than Labor Day 2016.
The people who will be marched off - that depends on who wins. Who exterminates the other is the question. There is no reconciliation possible.
It’s fine with me if you fancy yourself a neoconservative Maoist, but at least have the courage of your convictions.
"Putin didn’t pick Trump because he thought Trump was a great man - just the opposite. Russia profiled Trump and realized he would sell out our country for his own self-interests. He was a pliable contact who could easily be bought and blackmailed."
Hillary Clinton, meanwhile, was beyond reproach and could never be bribed.
Ajnal is an idiot.
Is Ajnal's post a quote from somebody else?
Best news analysis on the web right here. And yes, Ajnal has some serious cognitive issues to be sure! Trumpit must've tagged out.
and yet not a very creative one, on her watch, Ukraine was invaded, Poland and czechoslavakia were dereft of missile interceptors, they lost at least one cabinet, oh and an airliner was shot down over international airspace,
But suppose it was just about all those revenue streams, legal and otherwise. “Andy’s” wife got $700k from various Dem interests to run for stats office. My guess, a pile of that went unspent and the McCabes kept it.
Ajnal: "He was a pliable contact who could easily be bought and blackmailed."
So, let me get this straight.
Putin wants:
- Increased US defense spending
- Increased NATO defense spending
- US missiles in Poland
- US offensive weapons provided to the anti-Russian Ukrainians
- Increased sanctions on Russia client Iran
- Increased sanctions on Putin associates
- US forces obliteratibg a battalion of Russian mercenaries in Syria
- A much much stronger US economy
- The US becoming the worlds largest energy producer
- The US increasing energy exports to Europe, undermining Russian energy sales to Europe
- Trump publicly opposing the new Russia-Germany undersea natural gas pipeline
All of these things Putin must want because he supposedly controls Trump....
LOL
The idea that this is only cognitive dissonance seems dependent on the belief the charge is a conspiracy and since no individual is in charge and directing everyone that is clearly false.
But this is a strawman. There is no effective difference between coordinated attacks and multiple attacks by independent actors according to their own ideological motivations. And every time we get an explanation of left wing motivation the ideology is clear. Ultimately this is happening because the left has successfully convinced their adherents that furthering their ideology is appropriately part of their responsibility.
The left has spent decades normalizing "activism" and this is what activism is: doing your part to advance the left's interests.
"...I think the key to general Republican complicity in this scandal is going to be the fact that a lot of them got laundered Russian money in 2016, a lot of which got washed by the NRA."
A two-fer.
Ajnal goes after Trump and the NRA without a single fact.
Solid work.
Marcus said...
Trump's comment was meant to have the Russians "help" find the missing HRC emails. In a humorous way. Not to spy on her. That anyone can speak that his quip was meant to be a plea to Putin is just un-effing-believable. The Left saw it as a chance to blame Trump and lay groundwork that Trump was behind the so-called Russian hack.
******************
That's a point the progs want you to forget. It was Comey who revealed that thousands of Hillary's illegal private emails were missing, not that Trump asked the Russkis to hack her private email. It was far too late for that. They were long gone by then, most likely erased by the Shit Queen's minions.
As Trump said (para), "Maybe the Russians can find them."
As for the DNC email hacks, there's no **evidence** that the Russians did it, just unsupported assertion, and Wikileaks has denied that country's involvement.
When you are as dumb as John Podesta, who used "password" as his password, you don't need a foreign entity's tech wizards to do any sophisticated hacking.
Then there's this:
https://www.thenation.com/article/a-new-report-raises-big-questions-about-last-years-dnc-hack/
That's from "The Nation", hardly a right-wing source.
Seth Rich could not be reached for comment.
Drago, stop making sense!!!
"Is there any doubt if Hillary had managed to win the election that she would have also fired Comey?"
-- I doubt it. He minimized damage to her as much as possible, including not having the FBI aggressively pursue perjury cases against her aids.
well they depended upon crowdstrike, which is another bureau-dnc appendage, this is why they have tried to shut down discovery in the concord catering case, so proper analytics of the evidence is examined,
Suppose for example this story isn’t about good guys vs bad guys but about a fight over spoils.
https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-huizar-warrant-20190112-story.html
I asked a lefty friend who was telling me the Clinton Foundation was on the up and up and that there were no real concerns regarding Russian energy oligarch "donations" of 142 million dollars. I said if that were really true, why did the Clinton Foundation donations plunge after the election? If they are doing the lords good work why would countries and energy entities be less likely to "donate"?https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2018/12/clinton-foundation-revenue-low/ He got super defensive and brought up Michael Cohen being in Vienna again (he didn't understand that story had imploded again)
Ajnal... Don't comment here again until you get your mother's permission, OK?.
“Sure, pal. We'll just look the other way, because Democrat party members shouldn't have to pay for their crimes. Just let them go... NO! Fucking kill them!”
This is a Trump supporter/Cultist.
After reading this thread, I think you nutbags are are going to lose whatever marbles you still have left when the Mueller report is made public. I think whoever ends up in the role of President before 2020 might need to declare martial law, until you Cultists get yourselves deprogrammed. Have hope, there might still be a normal life after Trump for you poor souls.
"Nobody knows what Mueller knows."©️
“Nobody knows what Mueller knows."©️
Exactly. And won’t you feel foolish when you come to realize it?
I might only say “I told you so” a few times. I’m not without pity.
Behold, Inga The Golden Dossier Girl appears to warn you not to believe things that arent true!
LOL
If you happen to think Ingas admonitions are hilarious because she literally told us that Trump wouldnt get the nomination, wouldnt make it to the general election, wouldnt win, wouldnt make it to the inauguration, wouldnt last 3/6/9/12/15/18/21/24 months into his term, was actually exposed by the all too obvious hoax dossier, etc etc etc...
Well then, join the crowd!
LOL
Inga is what happens when the LLR's come to grips with who they really are.
Drago will be hardest hit, poor creature. I’ll be gentle with him, but I suspect we won’t see hide nor hair of Drago after the Mueller report becomes public.
Drago is what happens when you mix Trump Cultism and mania.
I love how Inga always waits until the party's over to make an appearance. Such conviction.
Sorry Mike, I had other obligations today. You know...life?
Sorry your dossier didnt work out Inga.
Better luck next time your dems collude with Putins pals to create the fake means to spy on domestic political opponents.
Btw, you have taken the cues from your lefty betters that the talking points have changed, dramatically, once again, havent you?
Or are you hoping for a 3rd bite at the "OMG Michael Cohen really was in Prague!!" apple?
LOL
Inga, waiting to make an appearance in the Russia threads until they peter out is your M.O.
After reading the detailed article on her testimony, it is obvious that the FBI leadership was obsessed with Russia and would believe absolutely anything negative, regardless of how far fetched, about Russia.
No, this is not even remotely possible. If the FBI leadership was really peopled by folk with an obsessive fear of Putin's rotting corpse of a state, whose main export is herpes, then they would have run a 24/7 counter-intelligence operation on President "I can be more flexible after the election" Obama, and on everyone associated with the Uranium One deal. But they didn't. Ergo, they are not really scared of Russia at all. What the are scared of is Trump, and the grubby deplorables who vote for him..
We are at the stage in the game - as evidenced by Turley's article - where the FBI and DoJ need to prepare the media battlefield for the disappointment that Mueller has found nothing in the nature of actual evidence of traitorous plotting by Trump, with the Russians. Consequently the public needs to be massaged into believing that there was a tremendous amount of smoke that Trump was giving off, and so it was totally reasonable for the FBI to investigate him and his campaign, and all his troops.
Mueller's ridiculous indictments of Russians who are never going to put a toe on US turf, and the desperate attempts to convict some Trump associates of something are all in the cause of justifying the investigation of Candidate and then President Trump, in the absence of any actual evidence.
Left Wing hack Jonathon Karl of ABC just today re the dems collusion lies: "But it is not added up to anything of the central question, again, was there anybody – was the Trump campaign aware of or coordinating with the Russians in their effort to meddle with the election. So far there’s been nothing on that and I’m led to believe don’t expect there’s going to be any."
Dont worry Inga. You'll still have LLR Chuck on Team Dem.
So you'll have that going for you.
Which is nice.
Lee: "We are at the stage in the game - as evidenced by Turley's article - where the FBI and DoJ need to prepare the media battlefield for the disappointment that Mueller has found nothing in the nature of actual evidence of traitorous plotting by Trump, with the Russians. Consequently the public needs to be massaged into believing that there was a tremendous amount of smoke that Trump was giving off, and so it was totally reasonable for the FBI to investigate him and his campaign, and all his troops."
Not that it will matter to Inga and LLR Chuck.
Why, it will just that the lack of "evidence" is due to an even MORE diabolical plot between Trump and Putin which Congress must continue to investigate!!
LOL
The dems are ALREADY saying that!
Blogger Inga...Allie Oop said...
“Sure, pal. We'll just look the other way, because Democrat party members shouldn't have to pay for their crimes. Just let them go... NO! Fucking kill them!”
This is a Trump supporter/Cultist.
After reading this thread, I think you nutbags are are going to lose whatever marbles you still have left when the Mueller report is made public. I think whoever ends up in the role of President before 2020 might need to declare martial law, until you Cultists get yourselves deprogrammed. Have hope, there might still be a normal life after Trump for you poor souls.
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Sure, Inga: with we cultists holding over 300 million firearms, a declaration of national martial law (something the Constitution does not allow, by the way) will be met passively.
Molon labe, baby. Molon labe.
Inga keeps forgetting the majority of active military and retirees as well as even larger percentages of the combat arms professions who vote, vote republican.
Further, the "nazi" (Inga term) "Deplorables" (Hillary and Inga term) are statistically over-represented in the combat arms.
Yeah, they are really going to listen to a bunch of UN following socialists/communists ordering them to go after their own people!
LOL
There's the tag! Inga comes out of the corner babbling incoherently only to be body slammed by Drago. Oh the humanity! That's entertainment.
There's the tag! Inga comes out of the corner babbling incoherently only to be body slammed by Drago. Oh the humanity! That's entertainment.
Mean Gene, from above...
Nobody knows what Mueller knows."©️
Exactly. And won’t you feel foolish when you come to realize it?
Actually we all know what Mueller knows since he leaked anything he found remotely suspicious. After three years of Russia investigations the left has discovered one person who lobbied for Turkey and another who advised the Ukraine, neither of which occurred during their involvement with Trump. Maybe they're just not that good at geography.
On the other hand we've discovered quite a bit of corruption here at home including lying to the FISA court and violating their own evidentiary standards.
Amusingly but predictably they support this corruption.
It's very weak tea, but it fits the pattern of the previous special prosecutor pat Fitzgerald who knew who leaked the info yet continued digging who lost key evidence, (the interview transcripts) who pledged big game but ended up with small fry
Tom T. said...
“Why does the tag say "Rick" Turley?”
Beats me! Probably because I have a tag and it’s not a common last name.
I do blame trump in part for this, if he had stood his ground and not betrayed one of his top supporters much of this would not have hapoened.
When will Trump declassify the documents?
After AG Barr is confirmed, most likely.
I might only say “I told you so” a few times. I’m not without pity.
Yes, miss “Keep hope alive” who threw away her vote in a state Trump narrowly won.
Conversely, we do know what Inga knows.
Trying to figure out why Chuck, Inga and that peepe person hate President Trump and the deplorables so much, really odd. Why are they here?
Why are they here?
It is well known that Tom Steyer and George Soros, and probably other shadowy billionaires fund people to get on the comments sections of right of center web sites and hijack threads, troll the readership and commentators. It is theorized by many of us the at least Chuck is a paid troll. The "peepe person" is merely a fool and a nut job, too stupid to get paid to do what he does. Inga might be in either camp.
chuck said... "It ain't cognitive bias when they are actually out to get you."
Trump has every right to think they are cause it is obvious the MSM and democrats REALLY ARE out to get him.
Crazy World said...
"Trying to figure out why Chuck, Inga and that peepe person hate President Trump and the deplorables so much, really odd. Why are they here?"
Why did the Nazis hate Jews? Cause they need a scapegoat for all the problems they have caused.
This Turley guy seems to be offering a face saving solution to both sides.
While the anti-Trump coalition, whom I believe did horrible and illegal things, probably deeply believe that Trump is some Manchurian candidate, they can't prove it and will never be able to prove it because Putin will certainly use 'Clintonian' tactics in shutting up the inconvenient and any evidence that exists is in Russia.
Trump has an uphill fight to prove his conspiracy theory as well. It is not that I believe he is wrong; it is that the FBI has turtled up and getting any evidence is impossible.
But this is, as one poster noted, getting close to civil war. Civil war is very bad for fat comfortable assholes who are visible and on the side without all the guns. Ask Cicero about that.
Alas (my repetitive phrase but I don't care a whit (1st use) he can ask Trump et. al. to stand down, but he can offer no such assurances that ANYONE would believe from the Left because Clinton/Obama will refuse to step back, and frankly, the Left is very fragmented. I believe Pelosi is TRYING to keep things together over there, but she has AOC, Maxine Waters, and Habib Baba cursing out the president roundly. And bitches be bitches: emotional and out of control.
So while I don't want to be a defeatist, the MEDIA needs to turn off the click bait and start speaking objectively to force the hands of the politicians. Obama, if faced with a media backlash on Obamacare, wouldn't have had any choice faced by the PUBLIC, the REPUBLICANS AND the Media attacking him.
They will not because they can not. They are out of business if the Feminist UMC shrews start cancelling their subscriptions.
So I applaud the sentiment (even if it means giving the Dems a pass) but doubt its efficacy and his sincerity.
"Let's call it draw?"
Blogger rhhardin said...
The actual cause, he didn't mention, was the business needs of the news business.
You've got to have viewers, and soap opera women are the only loyal group.
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Consider airport hostages...
Seems like Turkey is the front edge of laying out a predicate for Dems to channel Rodney King, when Mueller comes out shooting blanks. Pox on both their houses for having cognitive bias.
I don't believe the FBI ever thought Trump was a "tool of the Russians". The Steele dossier was literally unbelievable and falls apart with the most cursory investigation, and the FBI, which deals with actual conspiracies sponsored by foreign governments on a regular basis, could not have been unaware the dossier was manufactured from whole cloth.
If the willfully blind lead the willfully blind, both will fall into a pit.
Speaking of conspiracy and collusion, how do we know RBG is still alive?
The trouble with the c-words pushing to convict Trump and his cronies of complicity, collusion, and conspiracy is that these accusations are missing the crucial second part. They need to prove, or even allege, complicity or collusion in, some crime, or conspiracy to commit some crime, but all they have is ORANGE MAN BAD!
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