January 24, 2019

"At the time of Jesus... striking with the back of the hand a person, who was deemed to be of a lower socioeconomic class, was used as a means to assert authority and dominance."

"If the persecuted person 'turned the other cheek,' the discipliner was faced with a dilemma: The left hand was used for unclean purposes, so a back-hand strike on the opposite cheek would not be performed. An alternative would be a slap with the open hand as a challenge or to punch the person, but this was seen as a statement of equality. Thus, by turning the other cheek, the persecuted was demanding equality. [Walter Wink, in Engaging the Powers: Discernment and Resistance in a World of Domination] continues with an interpretation of handing over one's cloak in addition to one's tunic. The debtor has given the shirt off his back, a situation forbidden by Hebrew law as stated in Deuteronomy (24:10–13). By giving the lender the cloak as well, the debtor was reduced to nakedness. Wink notes, that public nudity was viewed as bringing shame on the viewer, and not just the naked, as seen in Noah's case (Genesis 9:20–23). Wink interprets the succeeding verse from the Sermon on the Mount as a method for making the oppressor break the law. The commonly invoked Roman law of Angaria allowed the Roman authorities to demand that inhabitants of occupied territories carry messages and equipment the distance of one mile post, but prohibited forcing an individual to go further than a single mile, at the risk of suffering disciplinary actions. In this example, the nonviolent interpretation sees Jesus as placing criticism on an unjust and hated Roman law, as well as clarifying the teaching to extend beyond Jewish law."

From the Wikipedia article "Turning the other cheek," which I'm reading this morning after seeing a comment from Char Char Binks said...in last night's Sly Rat Café:
What was Nick Sandmann supposed to do when approached by the snuggle-toothed Elder? Run away? Give him money? Offer to suck his dick? Seriously, we need to know in case it happens again.
My first-pass answer, written over there in the comments, was:
As Sandmann himself said to Savannah Guthrie, it would have been better to turn and walk away.
Then I wanted to read about turning the other cheek. I was surprised by Wink's interpretations, and I wonder if one's whole life and manner of thinking is affected by having a name that denotes a facial expression.

127 comments:

narayanan said...

I had lately come to think of "turning the other cheek" as a dare to repeat the first action.

Nice to know my gut feelings match history.

narayanan said...

Also nice to know Jesus was not a wuss that Christians have made him out to be.

Fake news

narayanan said...

but is he in the same league as Mohammed?

gilbar said...

narayanan said... but is he in the same league as Mohammed?

well, Mary Magdalene wasn't 8, so NO

Leland said...

I agree that the media wanted him to walk away. The same media that wants Trump to just resign. The same media that has no problems with deplatforming conservative voices. The same Democrats that wanted Rosa Parks to just sit in the back of the bus.

Bill, Republic of Texas said...

The left hand was used for unclean purposes, so a back-hand strike on the opposite cheek would not be performed.

Why? If this is all about dominance why not use the shitty hand. That would be even more degrading to the person being slapped.

Quaestor said...

Turning and walking away is like removing the cheese from the rat trap.

Ray - SoCal said...

Thanks Althouse - great information I did not know.

Jesus did say something about sell your cloak and buy a sword...
Luke 22:36

Interesting how interpretations change.

And how many so called Christian religious leaders gone with a secular humanism understanding of Christianity, including the leadership of the Covington Parish.

Susan said...

Really? Walking away would have helped? Helped what? Standing in a completely nonthreatening way and letting an "elder" drum his piece was not good enough why does anyone thinks lies couldn't be told about walking away?

iowan2 said...

Leland, I love the Rosa Parks reference. Capitulate. That is the only way to peace! If only Rosa Parks would have given in to those attempting to force her to move.

alanc709 said...

I expect most people know that dexter and sinister were the Latin for right and left hand. Would you rather be dexterous or sinister?

Quaestor said...

The left hand was used for unclean purposes so a back-hand strike on the opposite cheek would not be performed.

Rationalizing myths with newly minted myths is not progress.

Henry said...

As Sandmann himself said to Savannah Guthrie, it would have been better to turn and walk away.

Or he could have washed his hands before the multitude.

Henry said...

And the governor said, Why, what evil hath he done? But they cried out the more, saying, Let him be crucified.

Tommy Duncan said...

Casually ignoring the drum beater would have been appropriate, perhaps by turning 90 degrees and engaging in conversation with a friend. Pretend the drum beater is not there, since what he seeks is attention while the media seeks conflict.

alanc709 said...

Ignoring the drum beater would have gotten the same place we are now- they surrounded and disrespected him, remember? Do you really think saying there and ignoring him would have been interpreted differently? The agenda is all that matters, the physical facts are ancillary.

wild chicken said...

I think Sandmann was being a bit cheeky. Why not? Boys that age are at their most honest, most irreverent. God bless 'em. If this guy is going to charge us, why must I back down?

But he probably should have, only because it was this lame toothless dried up old man.

M Jordan said...

I like to interpret turning the other cheek in this way: the first strike you didn’t anticipate, didn’t see coming, and have to allow it could have been a mistake. You offer cheek two. If strike two happens, game on. We only have two cheeks.

Ann Althouse said...

"Really? Walking away would have helped? Helped what? Standing in a completely nonthreatening way and letting an "elder" drum his piece was not good enough why does anyone thinks lies couldn't be told about walking away?"

I'm not saying he was wrong and deserves to be trashed for what he did. I'm reading the question asked as what would have been the best response, and I think turning and walking away would be best. I think that is something we do all the time when we encounter people doing weird things at us in a public space. I haven't always done that myself, but it is my standard approach. I have also stood my ground and I have been hit with a vuvuzela.

Hagar said...

Has anyone thought of calling Mr. Phillips' tribe to ask if they recognize any such designation as "elder of the tribe" and is Mr. Phillips in any way speaking for them?

Henry said...

Sandmann being the center of the video was complete accident. All the drummer needed was one person to engage him that that's where the cameras would have focused.

It would never have been enough for Sandmann to just walk away. Every single student would have had to walk away.

AllenS said...

“If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun.” -- Barack Hussein Obama

Yeah, sure, turn the other cheek, motherfuckers.

Jason said...

Stwike him, Centuwion, vewwy woughly!

Henry said...

And then they would have missed their buses.

Browndog said...

Liberals are certain Christians are not allowed to defend themselves.

The initial attack that invokes the 2nd Cheek Doctrine? Never an issue.

AllenS said...

Walk away to where? It's my understanding that the boys were waiting for a bus to show up.

Hagar said...

There is an old story about the priest Peter Dass. He went into a dramshop to remonstrate with the roughs therein, and one of them struck him across the cheek. Dass drew back his fist to respond, and the rough waggled his finger at him and said, "No, no; remember the Bible and 'turn the other cheek!'" So Peter Dass did, and the rough struck him across the other cheek. The priest then said, "Now the Bible does not say any more!" and proceeded to clean house.

Shouting Thomas said...

Nathan Phillips is a character right out of Woodstock, my former home town.

The lefties fetishize Indians and veterans turned commies. There are always of few of these resident in town milking an odd sort of celebrity status.

Supposedly, these individuals embody unanswerably high moral authority.

The Phillips type characters in Woodstock are all half mad and hear voices in their heads. If they fix on you as a target, God help you.

Howard said...

Milking Cuck Tears for Bezos Bucks

M Jordan said...

I also think Jesus’ words to Peter that he must forgive, not just seven times, but seven times seventy times is misunderstood. Everyone thinks it means infinite forgiving but 7x70 is a finite number and not even that large a one (490). I had students that were past the 490 level by Thursday. So Jesus’s demand is tough but limited.

Gahrie said...

As Sandmann himself said to Savannah Guthrie, it would have been better to turn and walk away.

As I wrote on another thread: Well that's certainly what the GOP Establishment would have done. Surrender as usual. The Indian guy would have probably just followed, or the narrative would have become " White boy disrespects Indian elder by turning away from him dismissively".

But more importantly, why are we even discussing what Sandmann should have done? He's the only one who behaved appropriately in this incident. Why aren't we asking why Phillips didn't create the controversy by marching aggressively up to the kids? Why aren't we asking why Phillips didn't tell the truth instead of lying? Why aren't we asking why the Black Hebrews didn't behave more responsibly and maturely? Why aren't we asking why the media and the blue checks on Twitter didn't behave more responsibly?

Why do we always excuse or ignore the bad actions of the Left and expect the Right to roll over and show their bellies? The soft bigotry of low expectations?

Until you condemn the Black Hebrews and Phillips and recognize that Sandmann was the innocent victim that did everything right, you are part of the problem and not the solution.

Sebastian said...

"it would have been better to turn and walk away"

Sandmann is showing some wisdom in trying to tone things down for the MSM and their female audience. He is a nice boy, after all, isn't he, realizing now that it would have been better.

But in the moment, we saw a boy turning into a man, standing his ground, calmly.

Paul said...

While I am a Christian and I would turn the other 'cheek'.. ONCE, I'm also a free man with 2nd Amendment rights... the slapper might get something in return if they keep it up.

Lucid-Ideas said...

The Gospel of Slickback indicates that Jesus's pimphand was legendary. Kept money lenders (and bitches like Mary Magdalene) in their place.

Sadly this Gospel has been lost to time.

Unknown said...

I was waiting for someone to notice that Sandmann was turning the other cheek, but I'm not sure he thought of it that way. Turning the other cheek is an act of defiance.

roesch/voltaire said...

Oh my stepping aside for a man with poor teeth and possiblely mad is such a difficult gesture in these times.

Bill, Republic of Texas said...

I'm always amazed at how powerful the narrative is. the media is desperate to show the kids did some, anything, wrong.

Why are they not out asking the tribal leaders and Dem politicians if they approve of this guy's antics.

Ask Pvt. Awol Maytag if he is ashamed if himself for lying about children.

M Jordan said...

Nick Sandmann is a hero. Compare his stance with Jeff Flake’s in the elevator. Both were ambushed by people seeking a reaction, cameras ready. Flake stood there like a lamb being led to slaughter, head hung, silent. Sandmann stood his ground, challenged the stare, and smiled. A manly act in a cowardly time.

Browndog said...

As Sandmann himself said to Savannah Guthrie, it would have been better to turn and walk away.

It's called "duty to retreat" on a personal level--capitulate, withdraw, surrender, on a national level.

'Give way to the aggressors, and the world will be at peace' is a favorite liberal doctrine.

Why?

Because they are the aggressors.

Bill, Republic of Texas said...

We'll said Gahrie.

Gahrie said...

A bunch of Leftwing, grown, "men of color" behave inappropriately towards a 16 year old, apparently Rightwing, White boy who behaved appropriately, and Althouse ignores the grown men and suggests the boy could have behaved better.

That's called being part of the problem.

Jason said...

Walking away would not have done any good. Phillips would have just turned to someone else. And then someone else. And then someone else. So either the narrative would be "These racist MAGA kids are treating this brave Indian elder Vietnam veteran like a leper!" or he would have gotten a reaction from someone less mature and controlled than Sandmann.

Besides... Sandmann had no duty to retreat. Phillips walked up to HIM, not the other way around.

NorthOfTheOneOhOne said...

Gahrie said...

Until you condemn the Black Hebrews and Phillips and recognize that Sandmann was the innocent victim that did everything right, you are part of the problem and not the solution.

Exactly. You've got to ask yourself; who are the real racists here? The Covington boys or the pundits/activists who condemn them because they don't expect the Black Hebrews or Nathan Phillips to behave in a reasonable adult manner.

Shouting Thomas said...

This avalanche of jealous hatred of white hetero Cathoilic men is really kind of flattering.

Yeah... we really are that good!

Eat your hearts out!

Shouting Thomas said...

My late wife always said: "If you've got it, flaunt it,"

We're hot, baby!

NorthOfTheOneOhOne said...

Hagar said...

Has anyone thought of calling Mr. Phillips' tribe to ask if they recognize any such designation as "elder of the tribe" and is Mr. Phillips in any way speaking for them?

They did and unfortunately I can't find a link. The gist was that in their view Phillips was dealing with the ramifications of a troubled childhood and that his brand of activism is not the sort that the Omaha tribe engages in.

NorthOfTheOneOhOne said...

Sorry, should read; "They did issue a statment...." in the above post.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

It is interesting how distorted these types of sayings or passages from long ago become over time. Mistranslated from the original language? or just the gradual changing as in that kids game of Gossip we used to play.

Nevertheless, these distortions cause us to have ideas that are often diametrically opposed to the original meaning. We then predicate our thoughts, arguments and actions on those misconceptions.

A prime example being: Blood is thicker than water. Which people quote the Bible to say that you should stick with your family. Be loyal to your "blood" relatives.

When the real quote is The blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb Which means "that blood shed in battle bonds soldiers more strongly than simple genetics." Or that the bonds forged by association/friendship/common hardships are stronger than those of 'blood' relatives.

Or you can't pick your family but you CAN pick your friends.

We are so wrong on so many things :-)

joshbraid said...

Since Phillips only assaulted Sandmann and did not hit him, I applaud his staying put. Not from a perspective of power but relationship. Christianity is based on relationship, even non-verbal, and Sandmann gave witness to doing so despite the cost. The tragic part is that Phillips is unable to do so. One important part of this whole mess is that people are pretending to enter into relationship with Sandmann through criticism or other vitriol. They are simply expressing their own self-hatred that comes from their isolation, their own lack of relationship with others. If Phillips wanted something positive he would talk to Sandmann, not assault him. Same with the others.

Susan said...

"I'm not saying he was wrong and deserves to be trashed for what he did. I'm reading the question asked as what would have been the best response, and I think turning and walking away would be best. I think that is something we do all the time when we encounter people doing weird things at us in a public space. I haven't always done that myself, but it is my standard approach. I have also stood my ground and I have been hit with a vuvuzela."

And I'm saying that it doesn't matter what we "do all the time" when we are being videoed by activists looking to cause trouble and who are willing to lie to make appearances fit their narrative. Remember, they were at the March for Life. It's a highly charged venue where pro-lifers are constantly harrassed and mocked. These boys had been targeted for over an hour by the Black Israelites. None of that would even be known if the "elder" hadn't created the controversy by lying in the first place.

The bigots on the left were gleefully on board with having their worst thoughts about MAGA hat wearing white boys confirmed. Walking, standing, drumming in solidarity, nothing would have appeased the mob.

Big Mike said...

As Sandmann himself said to Savannah Guthrie, it would have been better to turn and walk away.

So tell me, Althouse, what happens if they walk away and their bus shows up? How do they connect with it?

I do have an advantage over you; I have driven on Constitution Avenue when a large demonstration was breaking up. It’s nothing you want to do twice in a lifetime. The likelihood that they would be able to find their bus if they left their designated pickup point is really small.

The above is what I wrote on the cafe thread. Let me add that I suspect your reference is something ok the order of a footballweekend, but an hour after game and the area around the stadium is empty except for a handful of vehicles that want to be there. By contrast the aftermath of a large demonstration on the Mall is totally chaotic, with buses inching forward, caught behind other buses trying to load people, cars from out of town lost and blocking intersections as they try to figure out the twisty maze of streets at the west end of the Mall, and pedestrians exercising their “right” to impede traffic, and so forth.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Note: I don't mean that the blood is thicker than water is actually IN the Bible. It might be. I have no idea.

But. Those who quote it seem to think so.

Browndog said...

I'm always amazed at how powerful the narrative is. the media is desperate to show the kids did some, anything, wrong.

Indeed.

Let's remember how this started. It was a one minute video of a kid smiling, posted on twitter. There was nothing in the video that would cause any uproar.

It was the description of the video in the tweet. You are told what to see in the video that was not actually in the video.

The power of suggestion over-rode what you saw with your own two eyes. To this day, many will never believe the video. They believe the (bogus) description that accompanied the original video.

Fernandinande said...

At the time of Jesus...

It's more like - since before the time of chimpness (ToC)... striking another was used as a means to assert authority and dominance.

From "Making Simple Stuff Sound Complicated and Subtle by Engaging in Intellectual Posturing and Using Biggish Words like Discernment and Resistance in a World of Domination."

William said...

Sad kind of life. The black Israelites in winter weather stand around on street corners hurling insults at random pedestrians. That's how they pass the days of their only life on earth. Well, they're off dugs and booze, and they're not plagued with self doubt. I suppose there are worse lives,

Big Mike said...

in last night's Sly Rat Café

So it was a cafe that serves rats? May I ask in which sense?

Jamie said...

Gahrie, thanks for pointing out the collective error of... I'm going to say "society," because it's so widespread. I've seen nothing, whether in the mainstream press or in any "informal" or partisan outlet, suggesting that either Phillips or the BHI be brought before cameras to answer whether they "see their fault" or have rethought their actions that led to this manufactured controversy. Why the bleep not? Why does all the burden fall on the kids - and particularly this ONE kid, who - it would appear - may just possibly be the embodiment of what a 15-year-old boy needs to be in order to grow up to be a proper man*? He keeps his head when all about him are losing theirs, e.g.

*Yup, I absolutely said that. He was there in the first place - in D.C., not in that particular spot - to stand up for the principle that the weak should be protected by the strong ("Right To Choose" people sometimes claim that the principle is "women should be barefoot, pregnant, and in the kitchen," but I have to wonder if even they believe that; I am very very tentatively against the criminalization of early abortion but I do understand the principle that brings Right To Life people out for this march); he acted with calm leadership toward his peers; he showed an elder the respect of not mocking him or ignoring him even though that elder was behaving very oddly at best; he maintained his place because he had been told by properly recognized authority that it was necessary to do so; he has responded to all the sh*t since then with grace and has continued to espouse and to live out publicly his religious principles. If he were my daughter's boyfriend, I'd be happy with her choice. (Except he's a little too young for her.)

Henry said...

I was surprised by Wink's interpretations, and I wonder if one's whole life and manner of thinking is affected by having a name that denotes a facial expression.

Student Joe McSmirk missed the bus.

William said...

That explanation about turning the other cheek seems kind of fanciful. What's to keep the aggressor from taking a half step to the right and then striking again?.......I've read that the Biblical word for craftsman and scholar were the same. Joseph was more likely a scholar than a carpenter, but the carpenter story had more appeal. The secret identities of super heroes are always kind of humble and unimpressive. Scholar doesn't quite fit the bill. Carpenter is both more humble and more manly than scholar.......When you stop to think about it, the overt life of Bruce Wayne is both more powerful and more glamorous than his secret identity.Tony Stark, too.

M Jordan said...

“I was surprised by Wink's interpretations, and I wonder if one's whole life and manner of thinking is affected by having a name that denotes a facial expression ...”

Or body part. Think Anthony Weiner.

sdharms said...

no Ann -- he didn't say he wished he at walked away. He said it might have been better if.. or would have turned out differently if.
I think he said, he stood his ground because he thought at the time it would have been disrespectful to perpetrator.
I think if he had turned to walk away, the perp would have advanced.

Bill Peschel said...

Hindsight is 20/20.

William said...

I'd bet hard currency that Phillips has been part of a 12-Step program. His higher power is not the Great Spirit he was drumming to but rather his activism. He found someone to hate besides himself.I hope that what with all this negative crap coming to light that he doesn't have a relapse.

stevew said...

I'm wondering how the narrative would have been spun had he looked at Phillips when he first arrived with surprise and confusion, and then turned his back to him. Guessing here that the reaction would have been outrage at the disrespect this young one had shown a noble native american tribal elder.

Kid couldn't win either way, but turning his back would have disproved the notion that he confronted Phillips.

TestTube said...

What the Sandmann family should have done is to engage a really good lawyer and a really good PR firm, and then follow very closely the advice of that lawyer and PR firm.

Which is what they appeared to have done.

The really really interesting part of this whole drama will take place out of the public eye, over the next few years or even decades, and the juicy details will not come out for decades, if ever.

However, strange things will happen. Celebrities and journalists will mysteriously disappear from social media for long stretches of time. People will suddenly "retire" or otherwise become unemployed for unspecified reasons. News companies will quietly implement cost cutting measures and layoffs, or even go out of business. Politicians will decline to run for election. Properties in prosperous Northeastern communities will come onto the market, often at very reasonable prices. And so on.

Char Char Binks, Esq. said...

Maybe I'll bang a drum and "sing" in Guthrie's face and see if she stands there aggressively taking it, or commits some other offense.

Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...

as for turning the other cheek--Sandmann should have mooned him

Char Char Binks, Esq. said...

"As Sandmann himself said to Savannah Guthrie, it would have been better to turn and walk away."

I didn't ask what the Nazi MAGA boy said he should have done instead of his genocidal hate crime against Phillips. I should have specified that I wanted to know what the GOOD people think he should have done. Would going back to Europe have been enough?

Greg P said...

Phillips picked him out and walked up to him. If he turned his back on him and walked away, that would be "showing disrespect" too.

You want a better world? Then you, Ann Althouse, need to attack Phillips and all his enablers and supporters, because they did evil.

When people do evil, do not blame the victim, do not blame the target.

It is good when someone is carrying a weapon, and uses it to defend themselves from a criminal attacker.

It is good when people stand their ground, and do not run away.

Celebrate the good, and attack the evil.

hombre said...

“It would have been better to turn and walk away” because the media and the lefties would have merely called him a disrespectful coward. Right?

The correct message here is that the mediaswine and the lefties control the narrative, usually dishonestly, not that any behavior by “the enemy” can avoid their malevolence. These are, after all, the people seeking to assasinate a President with vituperation.

Fritz said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Fritz said...

It might have been better for Sandmann had he walked away. I'm sure by now he's unofficially blacklisted from all the good elite colleges, and will have to go to some disputable right-wing school.

But it was better for all of us that he stayed, and we had this "conversation" that the left is pretty clearly losing.

MayBee said...

Oliver Darcy from CNN says this:

Oliver Darcy

Verified account

@oliverdarcy
57m57 minutes ago
More

There was speculation the mysterious Twitter account that helped send the Covington video viral was part of a disinfo campaign. But a Twitter source tells @donie the account appears based in the US & an analysis of it suggests it was run by a real person


Which is ridiculous.
Of course, Americans can create disinformation campaigns.
And of course, there is a real person behind every account. Even bots, eventually.
But real people run PR agencies and Political Black Ops and everything, even in America. Real Americans try to smear other Americans, even using fake names. How far us CNN's narrative is Oliver Darcy stuck?

dreams said...

"Until you condemn the Black Hebrews and Phillips and recognize that Sandmann was the innocent victim that did everything right, you are part of the problem and not the solution."

Yeah, that's the way I see it.

Big Mike said...

I'm with Gahrie and the rest who agree that people who fail to recognize that Sandmann was an innocent victim are part of the problem.

tim in vermont said...

He admitted he had everything coming to him! It would have been better if Althouse walked away during the Wisconsin protests, why did she keep blogging about it when she deserved everything she got? Like the Catholics say, it's a mystery.

Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...

why is mature, wise and experienced behavior expected from the kids

but not of the adult 'professional' agitators?

walter said...

From Today Show:
“In hindsight, I wish we could’ve walked away and avoided the whole thing.”

From Wapo:
Catholic school teen in viral video: ‘Now I wish I would have walked away’

Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...

the soft bigotry of low expectations?

wildswan said...

"The likelihood that they would be able to find their bus if they left their designated pickup point is really small."

This is so true. And who would propose that a group of teenagers should scatter and run away into the city? from a few harsh words? And since they had to stay where they were, who would tell a group of teenagers to stand still in the cold, silent while foul-mouthed adults abused them? On the other side, maybe Nathan Phillips was reliving his days on Parris Island. Maybe he was testing Nick Sandmann. If so, Mr. Sandmann behaved well.

Gillette could do a new ad celebrating the young men who are Catholic prolifers and Trump supporters, especially conservative high school and college students. They are the ones with the most courage facing the worst attacks.

narciso said...

Oliver Darcy is chief speech zampolit, he is Parsons from 1984.

JML said...

I was told by my favorite priest that to turn the other cheek was an insult - it was indicating the slap was weak and ineffective.

walter said...

wildswan,
Now's the time to lock in brand loyalty..before they start shaving.

JML said...

"On the other side, maybe Nathan Phillips was reliving his days on Parris Island."

Or he was trying to makeup for the fact that he went AWOL two to three times in his four year enlistment and he wasn't going to run anymore, and was going to confront his enemies head on...the guy is a fraud.

Susan said...

Considering that the Today Show interviewed the "Tribal Elder" with no pushback on his lies or his set-up of the whole incident, I think it is pretty clear that they are bent on destroying the kid. As a warning to others.

AllenS said...

How in the fuck does Nathan Phillips get money to be a professional pain in the ass? What is his work record? Has he ever worked?

reader said...

Be young. Be outnumbered. Be hectored. Be confronted. Don’t stand for your rights and when you are old enough to shave be a Gillette man. Remember when you turn the other cheek make sure it’s clean shaven.

walter said...

On the basilica steps, Mr. Phillips read a statement which said: “We demand that the students of Covington Catholic High School be reprimanded not just by their school officials but, as seniors, by their upcoming universities.”

Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...

Double A,
if the confrontation had happened during the march vs waiting on the steps,
should they have "walked away"?
Wouldnt this have a chilling effect on free speech, if it is required of targets to remove themselves from agitators?
How easy is that then to silence others-- get in their face, and now it is incumbent upon them to remove themselves from the public forum.
(please dont: they can just go to another area to voice their position)

The Meek Shall Inherit Their Disenfranchisement?

narciso said...

He is an adjunct of Daniel Sheehan's marxist clique the Christic institute and Sharptons national action network, that's who sponsored his daughter who spoke at the Michigan women's march.

William said...

I saw Savannah Guthrie's latest interview with Nathan Phillips. She was solicitous of his feelings. She did not ask any hostile or even skeptical questions about the inconsistencies in his past statements. Rather, it seemed to me that she gave him an opportunity to explain them away. I didn't not think Phillips came out of this looking good, but Guthrie looked worse. Her bias was showing.

Trumpit said...

"Seriously, we need to know in case it happens again."

Carry pepper spray with you. Next time a drum-beating Injun Joe gets close enough to damage your eardrums, blast him with oleoresin capsicum spray!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pepper_spray

William said...

Those Catholic priests got away with it for so long partially because the media treated the spokesmen for the Church with such respect and unblinking acceptance of their spin. Something similar seems to be going on with these activists. It's just about impossible for the media to report negatively on the words and deeds of this sad activist.

narayanan said...

gilbar said...

narayanan said... but is he in the same league as Mohammed?

well, Mary Magdalene wasn't 8, so NO

Thanks - good to know Jesus was not 30+year old virgin.

Hagar said...

AllenS said...
How in the fuck does Nathan Phillips get money to be a professional pain in the ass? What is his work record? Has he ever worked?


Phillips is a camp follower. Scavenging in the wake of "the movement" is how he makes a living.

Fritz said...

Hagar said...
AllenS said...
How in the fuck does Nathan Phillips get money to be a professional pain in the ass? What is his work record? Has he ever worked?

Phillips is a camp follower. Scavenging in the wake of "the movement" is how he makes a living.


But their dental plan sucks.

Yancey Ward said...

Walking away would not have worked here- it would have just put some other teenager in Phillips' crosshairs. Sandmann took one for the team.

Rabel said...

"As Sandmann himself said to Savannah Guthrie, it would have been better to turn and walk away."

Not exactly. I found two statements from the Guthrie video with Sandmann related to this:

"In hindsight I wish we could have walked away and avoided the whole thing."

"I wish we could have walked away."

He may have also said what you say he did but I didn't see it.

Yancey Ward said...

Rabel is correct, there is difference in the two statements, and I have only seen the one Rabel cited, not the other one.

Yancey Ward said...

I can see the media, though, have regrouped to continue to fight this. It is clear that Sandmann's courage is annoying them, so they attack that and try to imply it was stupid to stand his ground. I guess courage is toxic, too.

Trumpit said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Trumpit said...

It was effrontery not courage.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/effrontery

bagoh20 said...

Sandman addressed this. He said he thought about walking away, but thought that would be disrespectful to the elder man. Knowing what we do about Sandman now, that seems entirely within his character. But we still need to find a way to blame the 16 year old. We just have to. The lying aggressive Indian cannot be held responsible for himself. Soft bigotry, is just white supremacy in blackface.

JML said...

Blogger Trumpit said...
It was effrontery not courage.

Oh bullshit. Do you get paid to be this much of a trolling hole? Or is a natural character flaw?

bagoh20 said...

I'm sure lots of people once said that MLK should have just walked away when faced with bigots. It would have avoided so many conflicts. The bigots back then called the adult MLK "boy", Now they call a boy every slur available. It's really very touching.

Yancey Ward said...

The unedited videos clearly show Phillips was a bully- his entire act was a display of dominance. The thing about bullies every boy learns early on in life is that you can't keep running from them and maintain any sort of dignity, or even self-respect. Even getting your ass kicked is preferable in the long run. Sandmann's refusal to back away was impressive, as is his refusal to apologize now.

William said...

Some embarrassing news has come to light about Phillips past, and I bet that there will be more to come. He's got a criminal record of assault and drunkenness and telling outright, video taped lies about his service record, Apparently the crack investigative team at NBC News was unable to unearth these facts, but there they are. Guthrie has got to stop resting on her laurels for the fine work she did in exposing Matt Lauer (/s) and get on top of this story........The media reports on this story in such a patently biased way, how do they expect us to believe anything they say about Russia/Trump collusion.

RobinGoodfellow said...

Pvt. Awol Maytag

You guys are cracking me up today!0

mikesixes said...

"..it would have been better to turn and walk away". No, it wouldn't. It might have produced somewhat less manufactured outrage, but the fact is that Sandmann and his friends did nothing wrong, and even if they had walked away they would have been castigated for the disrespectful act of turning their backs on this "Native American elder". The fact is they were chosen to be the villains in a piece of victimization theater and the video would have been shot and edited to show them as such. Better to face their attacker with dignity. Kudos to them for their grace under pressure. Their church and school should be proud of them.

Nonapod said...

So it turns out that not only did Nathan Phillips lie about being a Vietnam Vet, he also has a criminal past. Boy, this narrative hasn't just collapsed, it's practically imploded into a black hole.

Phil 314 said...

I also wondered why Sandman didn't just turn his back to Phillips. but I have to keep reminding myself "He's a 16 year old kid!"

It wasn't till I read this piece that I heard that the initial targets of the Black Hebrew Israelites were the Indians but apparently one Indian woman began to frustrate them with her counter arguments so they then chose to pick on a mutual enemy "the white boys"

Phil 314 said...

I didn't know there were so many bible scholars here at Althouse.

Jim at said...

Oh my stepping aside for a man with poor teeth and possiblely mad is such a difficult gesture in these times. - R/V

Or maybe - just maybe - you assholes could stay out of other people's space for a change.

Big Mike said...

On the basilica steps, Mr. Phillips read a statement which said: “We demand that the students of Covington Catholic High School be reprimanded not just by their school officials but, as seniors, by their upcoming universities.”

And I demand that any university that fails to offer admission to any Covington student, whether involved in that incident or not, should immediately have all federal grants cancelled, including research grants.

YoungHegelian said...

@RG,

Pvt. Awol Maytag

You guys are cracking me up today!


My personal favorite that I saw over at Ace Of Spades is:

"Before the White Man came, we used every part of the refrigerator".

Trumpit said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Trumpit said...

I think that Schlump will be the last president of United States. He will declare martial law and rule with an iron fist. Heads will roll starting with Killary and Pelosi. Schlump is carefully following (while eating ice cream) the rocky road situation in Turkey because he wants to jail and kill his enemies like Erdogan is doing. Schlump will call on the Vast (a) Redneck (mi) Nation (t) aka VARMINT to come out of their trailer parks to save the country from "liberals." The war will be ostensibly over the 2nd Amendment that liberals want revoked. The reality is that Schlump wants to rule as a Roman Emperor because he greatly admired Caligula. Accounts about Caligula’s reign by ancient historians are so biased against him that the truth is almost impossible to disentangle. The bias was due to Caligula Derangement Syndrome. All industries will become come part of the Trump empire and renamed in his honor. Even this blog will be renamed the Trump-Althouse Handshake. You know why his name goes first. In reality, Emperor Trump won't shake your hand because he is germophobic like Howard Hughes, another freaky billionaire from the past.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recep_Tayyip_Erdoğan

Big Mike said...

@Trumpit, and the downside is???

narciso said...

Be creative I've been pushing the Fujimori option, since they are already closed.

Chris of Rights said...

BTW, I don't buy that it would have been better to turn and walk away. The same people that accuse him of smirking now would have said that turning and walking away is rude and disrespectful.

✔ I'm not a robot

liza moon said...

the deer in the headlights rarely stops the car. nick sandmann stopped the car and kept his group from harm.

William said...

Some here have questioned the wisdom of Sandmann appearing with Guthrie. The same question can be asked of Guthrie appearing with Phillips. She asked him the gentlest questions in the most considerate way possible. She wasn't particularly hard on Sandmann, but she was noticeably softer with Phillips. It's not a good look for the Today show. They certainly made no effort to reveal or question Phillips' criminal past or willful misstatements..........The people at Penn State got into a lot of trouble for looking the other way when that perv coach was carrying on. Matt Lauer didn't commit any crimes as horrendous as the perv coach, but his coworkers were certainly just as guilty of looking the other way. If I had the computer skills, I would post a picture of Savannah Guthrie with a quizzical half smile (sometimes known as a smirk) and under that picture I would post a caption saying "Savannah learns that Lauer is a rapist".

narciso said...

some hacks aren't created or treated equally:

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/01/24/elliott-broidy-republican-fundraiser-hacked-emails-1124067

Ken B said...

On my blog I note that under Jim Crow blacks on sidewalks were expected to step aside for whites. That was his offense: he didn’t step aside. Doing so might have saved him grief. That doesn’t make it “best”.

Rory said...

"like Erdogan is doing"

Erdogan has been in government office since he waz in his 30s, and was a party hack stretching back to college. That's the sort of resume you have to beware.

Gospace said...

Cadet James T Kirk was able to beat The Kobayashi Maru no win scenario because he cheated. The Kobayashi Maru is a simulation, Nick Sandmann was faced with a real life no win situation- you can't cheat. And there's another factor involved- it's a no win scenario only because liberals are allowed to lie and not be held to account for their lies. And the mainstream media amplifies their lies, and never prints large type front page headline stories about how they lied and manufactured false narratives.

So let's examine what happened in brief. The fake Vietnam vet, the poseur, walked right up into Nick Sandmann's face beating a drum. Whether he touched him or not- he committed assault and should be arrested for that. He won't be. A loud drum at close range can cause permanent hearing loss.

So let's examine why he did it. Well, he's an old bully who knows that confronting a white teenager is likely safe, especially one with a church group. Realistically, we all know that if he had done that to a peaceful black teenager just standing there he's be crippled right now, if still alive. He's trying to provoke a reaction. He doesn't get one. This is, for him, the worst possible outcome- Nick Sandmann stands his ground, and just stands there smiling. Now, Ann Althouse thinks the better option would have been to retreat. Retreat from a bully? Absolutely the wrong thing to do under any circumstance. If he had done so, Nick Sandmann would have been showing cowardice, and the old bully and fake Vietnam vet would have either followed him forcing a confrontation or assaulted another student in the same manner. Nick Sandmann isn't cued in on the fakery being generated. He doesn't know he's playing out The Kobayashi Maru scenario in real life. He's got this obviously deranged old man in front of him, with no clue that he's a fake Vietnam vet creating a scene for the media. In any aftermath analysis, standing his ground like he did appears to be the best possible outcome. Nick didn't know he was a bit player in a made for TV scenario, but under the circumstances, performed the best possible move he could. At age 16.

Liberals are still sticking to their lies. Still insisting that Nick Sandmann was disrespectful to an old bully fake Vietnam vet, arguing that he deserves respect because he's a "tribal elder"- an unproved assertion, that doesn't overcome the fact that the fake Vietnam vet assaulted Nick Sandmann, and deserves no respect from anyone, much less the young man he assaulted. The fake Vietnam vet lied about the entire encounter, and the lies were spread by tweets and replicated in the media. A lying fake Vietnam vet who's probably also lying about his status as a "tribal elder" (Quick- what tribe does he belong to? Do they have recognized tribal elders- and is he one?) deserves no respect; he deserves scorn by every decent person he encounters. He's certainly got mine. But yet- every liberal is now cheering him as some kind of hero, proving there are no decent people who are liberal.

Looking at the attacks on Nick Sandmann, and the attacks on the Knights of Columbus in the halls of Congress, any Christian of any type who votes for a Democrat of any stripe is signing their own death warrant. It's becoming painfully obvious even to the oblivious that the Democrats have declared an enemy, and that the #1 enemy is Christianity, followed closely by the #2 enemy Judaism. Their newfound love of muslims show they truly believe that the enemy of my enemy is my friend. You know who else was closely allied with muslims? Hitler and the National Socialists of Germany. You know who else was hostile to Christians and Jews? Hitler and the National Socialists of Germany. History repeats itself.

Aussie Pundit said...

Thus, by turning the other cheek, the persecuted was demanding equality.

That sounds like bullshit.
And it's clearly not the meaning of the phrase in its famous biblical context.