Trump tweets.
As the Shutdown was going on, Nancy Pelosi asked me to give the State of the Union Address. I agreed. She then changed her mind because of the Shutdown, suggesting a later date. This is her prerogative - I will do the Address when the Shutdown is over. I am not looking for an....
....alternative venue for the SOTU Address because there is no venue that can compete with the history, tradition and importance of the House Chamber. I look forward to giving a “great” State of the Union Address in the near future!
The NYT's Sheryl Gay Stolberg calls this "seeming capitulation":
The president’s seeming capitulation came even as House Democratic leaders said they were prepared to give him a substantial sum of money for border security — perhaps even the $5.7 billion he has requested — but not for a wall and not until he agreed to reopen the government. That figure is roughly double what Democrats had previously approved.
Is it "capitulation" or maintaining pressure?
Posts
85 comments:
Trump is playing the adult in the room. Amazing the Dems and LLR have given him this opening.
It seems to me to be a responsible attempt at de-escalation, which of course gets immediately branded as "capitulation" by opponents.
I'm more interested in what's happening in the new Venezuelan proxy-cold-war, Battle of the Presidents Edition.
If House leadership is prepared to approve $5.7 B for border security “but not the wall”, isn’t that capitulation? They can’t argue the amount or the need for border security, they can only argue that they’ve got better ideas how to spend the money. Is that issue worth pauperizing thousands of federal employees?
Trump's doing all he can to show he is working. And he is demonstrating Pelosi to be interested in autocratic control instead of working on a amicable solution. The shutdown is far from over, but each extra day now is going to be on Pelosi. After all, if Trump has capitulated, why isn't the government open? Oh yeah, he hasn't gotten a bill to sign with his funding.
B. Maintaining Pressure
AKA being the adult in the room.
Trump is the adult in the room. Nancy is delusional, and it is more and more obvious every day.
Accepting anything other than a physical structure just opens the door for more bad faith on the part of Congress. Hopefully this signals Trump's willingness to keep the government in partial shutdown. I'd really love to see some RIFs of the non-essentials begin on 1/29 in place of the SOTU.
Is it "capitulation" or maintaining pressure?
It is whatever the media decides it is. That is, it is whatever advances the narrative.
B. Maintains pressure by acting Presidential, and shifting the ownership / responsibility onto the Democrats. Trumps wins this round, and Pelosi comes off as petty.
And whats interesting, is the economy, Wall Street, and most people are not noticing the shutdown. This is a huge blow to the perceived need for an ever increasing government presence. And since most government employees are Democrats, it hurts the Democratic Party. I never would have imagined this result of a shutdown.
President Trump acknowledges where separation of powers apply. The Speaker of the house has some absolute powers.
I wonder if the Speaker of the House knows that the President of he United States has absolute powers also?
Now that the Speaker has defined the shutdown as a trigger to exercise power that has never before been invoked, the CiC has a whole new array of actions at his disposal, and Pelosi will be forced to agree that those actions do not endanger the Republic, as demonstrated in her chosen actions.
Wow! Maintaining pressure? Really?
SanFranNan just grabbed CounterPuncher by the pussy and it looks like maintaining pressure to you?
Probably just a coincidence that DJT insulted Schumer’s manhood just before he became the “adult” in the room.
The Fifth Ave Trumplicans are all in on The Donald.
It is a little early for the famous groundhog, but I’m seeing six more weeks of shutdown.
Seeming capitulation is a Tom Swifty.
I'm more interested in what's happening in the new Venezuelan proxy-cold-war, Battle of the Presidents Edition.
Yes, South American countries are now all recognizing Guaido as president so it is not just the "Yankees."
I agree with iowan that Trump is also testing boundaries, and Pelosi is doing a great job of showing that it is fine to exercise Constitutional powers. When the time comes, he won't have to say he has a pen and a phone; he'll just use them.
China, Russia and Turkey are backing Maduro- why am I not surprised.
I don't know if it's capitulation or added pressure. I can say it's the classy thing to do, and maintains respect for an American tradition in a way that Pelosi's action in barring him from the House chamber does not.
Last night there was an Instadundit link to a review of a Jordan Peterson talk. One topic was the "mammalian" need for play, speaking of rats:
You see, if Rat A is a big guy and Rat B is a little guy, Rat A will quickly pin Rat B and the play ends. The Leftist, seeing this, will say, “Foucault was right. All that matters is raw power.” However, if the Leftist had the patience to watch the process repeatedly, what he would see is that, despite that first loss in play, little Rat B still wants to play again. And so does big Rat A. Here’s the amazing thing: If Rat A really wants to play, he must abandon his power at least 30% of the time and let Rat B win. If he does not do so, Rat B will refuse to play and Rat A will no longer be able to play.
By the way, if the above reminds you of something, it’s because you have children or have worked with children. When they’re little, you must periodically let them win Candy Land or catch or T-Ball, or whatever else you’re playing with them or they too will refuse to play. Our inherent sense of both fairness and playfulness demands occasional victories for the little guys if everyone else is going to continue to play. This doesn’t mean “trophies for everyone.” It means socializing people in an age-appropriate way.
If Trump were smart, and I think he is, he'd be working right now (through Kushner or others) on cultivating a group of centrist Democrats, letting them know if they play ball they will win a certain amount of the time.
Just like Rats.
Pelosi left herself nowhere to go and needed a win.
So Trump gave her one knowing the subsequent SOTU will be a victory speech.
The Dems who didn’t run on border security are now talking about border security.
Which only shows the crisis was not “manufactured”, and undercuts Pelosi’s rhetoric.
Who will bet that once the shutdown ends, Pelosi will have another excuse for why Trump shouldn't give the SOTU in the House chamber?
RAT of the Deal.
Based on past experience I'm inclined to quot Admiral Ackbar; "It's a trap!".
Let's wait and see what comes next. It's not like Trump to be such a pussy.
One thing might be that any bill passed in the House might have to be "reconciled" with a Senate bill, and Pelosi may not have such an absolute tight grip over the resulting final language.
Moderate freshmen and other members in Speaker Pelosi's side are agitating for an end to include some measure of border security, which has a 2/3rds approval rating in a recent public poll. Majority leader Hoyer has admitted that physical barriers may need to be a part of the border, and the border patrol wants it.
She called the President on the STOU address, he grounded her flights.
The Buzzfeed thing blew up in the left's face, the Covington boy's thing not only has embarrassed those few on the left who are embarrassable, but has united the right, led to potential ongoing legal expense which will be reportable for up to several years, and has deeply undercut what little residual trust exists in the press (interestingly, Fox seems to be the one major outlet which did not fall for either story, political blinders or journalistic skepticism?).
With the Democrats bringing forward a proposed funding scheme, Mr. Trump now has an opening for negotiation, his specialty, so he backs off the fight and lets discussion proceed. If he cannot get what he needs he still has the bully pulpit.
As others said. Trump is being the adult and keeping the pressure on.
Trump is "showing" respect for the "institution" of Congress, the traditions and history of previous Presidents.
What this does is highlight the the disrespect that Nancy (Queen of the House) is showing the office of the President by creating this manufactured crisis over the STOU.
One person is playing petty games with the Offices and the other is showing restraint.
And "It's a trap". Trump is the Roadrunner and Nancy is Wiley Coyote.
We wouldn't need a wall if the law was changed to allow border patrol to immediately push people back over the border when caught. Want asylum? Go to US Consulate and apply.
We know from all the insider accounts being published that you POTUS is playing 3 dimensional chess with his opponents.
Trump isn't caving to Nancy.
He is just giving her more rope (to hang herself with).
I am glad he held out for a "smart fence" as offered now let us open up the government before we have a major air accident.
Maybe Trump should have turned and walked away. Then the media would treat him fairly.
Call it the Althouse rule.
Let the left devour Pelosi and friends.
The SOTU is usually lame theater.
Haha, “smart fence”, a far cry from that big beautiful Trump Wall. He’ll take it and either love it or lump it, who cares? He’ll also wait for Pelosi to allow him to speak in the House.
Haha, “smart fence”, a far cry from that big beautiful Trump Wall.
Someone doesn't understand negotiating.
You always start with asking for more, much more, than what you really want.
The other side is incredulous and offers you much much less than they might be actually willing to give.
You go back and forth. Upping your demands. The other side goes the other direction lowering.
Until the offering side (Trump) decides to give and inch. Lower the opening bid. Other side(Dims especially the Blue Dogs) decides that maybe a deal might not be "such" a bad thing and gives a bit too.
Eventually, you (or Trump) in this case gets what he really wanted all along and the other side (Dims) get to feel that they got some of their demands as well. Although they didn't really because none of their offers were ever really on the table except as tools for the winner (Trump) to use to get the deal he wants.
Everyone thinks that they got a good deal, when really you (Trump) got what you wanted in the first place.
Have you NEVER bought or sold a used car? I have one to offer you.....let's discuss price and condition :-D
Actually Inga, I think a lot of Americans do care. They care about their country and the rule of law. What the Dems want will not stop anyone from coming over and that mean a whole lot more of illegals in the country. I am all for legal immigrants, they do help our economy. But a lot of Hispanics now see that the illegals undercut their earning power. Not good for the Dems.
@TheGodfather - they're not being pauperized, there's plenty of support up to and including interest-free loans. Most whining about this is agitprop.
Here's an example, and I can just about guarantee all other Federal Employee connected credit unions have similar programs:
https://www.navyfederal.org/about/government-shutdown.php?intcmp=hp|cont|4|clns|shutdown|govshutdown|12/22/2018|||
Wait, Trump thinks other human beings have prerogatives?
Trump’s approval rating continue to fall. The country deserves Nancy Pelosi and her minions.
I really thought he could ride out the malice of the fake news mediaswine. I no longer think that. The country is toast.
4352443 4am
Folding like a cheap suit.
Vicki from Pasadena
Trump isn't caving to Nancy.
It was a smart move on his part. He foreclosed her ability to say she didn't really uninvite him, just suggested he move the date.
She's now on record as having told him in no uncertain terms not to come. Litigators do this stuff all the time.
The government shutdown continues. The government shutdown now includes the SOTU being delayed.
Pelosi can no longe say the current dysfunction is all Trump's fault. Trump has once again allowed himself to be restrained by the other branches of government, demonstrating he's not a dictator.
Moderate Democrats and swing voters are taking note.
Blogger Laurel Lowrey said...
4352443 4am
1/24/19, 10:19 AM
Coded message?
Althouse, you are the new Times of London!
Beat me to it Kevin. Exactly how it appears to me.
Who will congratulate Trump on being statesman-like in this situation, for acting in the interest of political comity, of elevating the discussion & interaction?
Hahahahaha, none of the Dems, that's for sure!
Here's what a majority of Democrats care about: depriving Trump of a perceived victory. If there were some way to give trump wall funding, and have it perceived as a Trump defeat, they would take it; if there some way to keep the government workers furloughed for an extended period and have that perceived as a Trump defeat, they would take it. So the number one by-a-huge-degree priority is not "help federal workers" or "open borders" or "path to citizenship", it is "deprive Trump of a victory".
The State of Union has the House, the Senate, and the Chief Justice. All the essential elements to impeach and try the President per the Constitution. Could they do it by acclamation as he walks down the aisle to deliver his speech? New President Pence will be there to take the oath. It could all be over in 5 minutes.
They're coming after pence, were you not paying attention.
Its refreshing to see a republican who won't get rolled with a "grand bargain" which usually means caving on everything so the media will reward them with praise but things are different now. I think Trump is actually repelled by the idea of being lauded by the washington press. The longer this drags on the more people are wondering if we really need 800k federal employees at all. Maybe 1/2? The lefties are left praying for a disaster to pin on Trump. That is what their "strategy" has been reduced to.
Does Trump really have the power to lay off workers after 30 days or whatever? Does anyone know how this works? It seems like a certainty that it will go to court.
I actually believe Trump is willing to leave the government partially shut down for the rest of this term in office. The question is whether the Senate Republicans are willing to, and whether or not there are enough votes in the House to override a veto of a bill without a wall and the funding for it. Trump isn't a politician, and I think the Democrats and the media are working on the assumption that he is a politician, and that may be a big mistake.
Trump isn't a politician, and I think the Democrats and the media are working on the assumption that he is a politician, and that may be a big mistake.
Most politicians are trying to parlay their power into wealth.
Trump parlayed his wealth into power.
They just don't understand why the stuff from the Acme Politics Company keeps blowing up in their faces.
Left Bank,
Please wash the sock when you are finished with your masturbatory fantasy.
johns,
Trump is able to order a "Reduction in Force" after 30 days of a shutdown.
All the details are here:
https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/workforce-restructuring/reductions-in-force/
That is for The Office of Personnel Management.
Note that one of the conditions is "lack of funding" and the president's power is clear.
I had just read a historical analysis on how the Japanese leadership in W.W.II failed to challenge the military war lord on the fundamental weakness of their surprise attack at Pearl Harbor. It was all based on the concept that the Americans would sue of peace but no one in the room had the guts to mention "What if they don't give up?". I think that is Pelosi's and the democrats dilemma, what if Trump doesn't quit? Hope is not a plan.
Blogger johns said...
Does Trump really have the power to lay off workers after 30 days or whatever? Does anyone know how this works? It seems like a certainty that it will go to court.
No
Blogger EDH said...
If Trump were smart, and I think he is, he'd be working right now (through Kushner or others) on cultivating a group of centrist Democrats, letting them know if they play ball they will win a certain amount of the time.
So in other words, after Trump has built “The Wall” into a do-or-die issue for himself, we Republicans will sooner or later have to give up something consequential and perhaps even several consequential things, in order for Trump to get what he can claim as a victory with His Wall.
We all know that Democrats are being dishonest when they say that they are morally opposed to any border wall. In the past, we have seen bipartisan Congressional support for hundreds of miles of border walls. Democrats supported that on almost all occasions. But they are opposing it now, because “Trump.”
Trump, stupidly, promised a Great Wall that Mexico would pay for. A small plurality of Republican primary voters believed that shit.
Trump, stupidly, said that he would take the mantle of a shutdown.
Trump, stupidly, blew up the CR that passed the Senate in 2018, and walked himself into having to deal with the 2019 Dem majority in the House.
Trump’s stupidity now forces him into dealing with the Dems on things like DACA amnesty in order to not look completely foolish on all of the stupid things he’s said about The Wall.
If Trump was as smart as Chuck, he would be negotiating with Mexico instead of the democrats.
Seriously, must be a way to get five or six billion from Mexico if they want to avoid getting MAGATIZED.
Obligatory repost for casual/new readers unfamiliar with titty twister Chuck. Apologies to regulars
Chuck said...
"I am afraid you are mistaking me for someone who has an interest in fair treatment of Donald Trump. I'm not your guy. I am interested in smearing him, hurting him and prejudicing people against him."
3/4/16, 4:46 PM
well trump was able to reach agreement with lopez obrador, then with Trudeau, it's like talking to a block of wood, and miss freeland fmrly of the financial times, is just another useless apparatchik,
Not Sure,
Your link is "won't be" not "cannot be" so you are incorrect.
well yamamoto, having taken courses at Harvard, and served as naval attache, told them exactly this, they underestimated the will of the American fighting man, and it's prodigious industrial capacity,
Chuck said...
We all know that Democrats are being dishonest when they say that they are morally opposed to any border wall. In the past, we have seen bipartisan Congressional support for hundreds of miles of border walls. Democrats supported that on almost all occasions. But they are opposing it now, because “Trump.”
No. They are being dishonest when they say they are for effective border security. As are establishment Republicans. If you doubt this, look at all they have done for border security since IRCA was signed into law 32 years ago.
Their real interest is in amnesty. If they have to pretend to be tough on the border for a little while in order to get amnesty through, they will. Later, they'll gradually abandon whatever plans were made (see: implementation of the Secure Fence Act) but will never stop pushing amnesty proposals.
The longer it takes, the more success Trump will have to crow about. Today they announced unemployment claims were the lowest since 1969 (200,000) - 50 years since that happened. Since the population was so much smaller in 1969, 200,000 now must be an incredible record by percentage.
Birkel--What part of this:
While federal statute typically instructs agencies to RIF targeted groups of employees who have been placed on furlough status for 30 days or more, the regulations don’t apply to emergency furlough situations, the Office of Management and Budget confirmed
do you find difficult understand?
It won't happen because the rules governing "administrative" furloughs don't apply. Which is to say, it can't happen under the current rules just because of a budget impasse.
How does Pelosi get out of this box? She has taken an absolutist position, one that no one on her side really supports, namely walls are "immoral" and not one dime of money will be spent on security that requires a wall/fence/badminton net etc. Trump has all sorts of fall back positions like using the Corp of Engineers to build more walls under national security etc. What does she have? All or nothing? Seems like shes in a more precarious bargaining position.
Blogger Hunter said...
...
...
Their real interest is in amnesty. If they have to pretend to be tough on the border for a little while in order to get amnesty through, they will. Later, they'll gradually abandon whatever plans were made (see: implementation of the Secure Fence Act) but will never stop pushing amnesty proposals.
And as Ann Coulter rightly points out, giving away significant concessions on amnesty for a paltry piddling $5 billion to build 150 miles of wall is some of the shittiest dealmaking anybody ever heard of.
Trump is now talking about deals and concessions because he was such a jackass; talking so proudly about how he’d take the heat for any government shutdown. Well, now he’s got it. He wouldn’t, if Trump had more wisely let McConnell run the show in Congress.
"Here’s the amazing thing: If Rat A really wants to play, he must abandon his power at least 30% of the time and let Rat B win."
Yup. I was on an elite team. We had a 97 game win streak. Near the last third of that we had trouble finding games. No one wanted to play against us.
So we subtly dialed down our aggression. 13-0 blowouts became 7-6 nailbitters. Always in our favor because we had control of the game tbe whole time. But letting the rest of the league believe they had a chance got us those extra 30+ games.
And it was no longer fun for us near the end, essentially occupying barren terrain. Once you get the undefeated streak out of your system, you would almost rather lose a tight game 11-10 than run up a 21-0 win. Because the Challenge becomes more important than winning.
(although we are not yet tired of winning, President Trump)
WHY CHUCK favors impeachment: Chuck is very invested in being proven right. We all know this type of person. As long as he can say "I told you so", nothing else matters.
You see it in the leftist commenters here.
Employment up , unemployment down. They don't care about that. Why should they? Middle and upper middle class, have nothing to lose. More important to gloat than to actually care about what is best for the country and it's citizens.
Chuck said in 2015:
My point, and my question to all of the Trump fans is this: Trump as the Republican nominee will result in Hillary Clinton winning the Presidency of the United States and holding that office until Justice Scalia is 85 years old. Hillary could nominate replacements for Ginsburg, Breyer, and one or two Republicans. We could end her term with a Supreme Court comprised of six young liberals who might serve for 25 years.
Climate change is a joke, compared to those prospects.
If Trump is the Republican nominee, Hillary Clinton wins by 350 electoral votes.
If Trump runs as a third party candidate, Hillary might win by 300 electoral votes.
What do you say, fans of Trump? Is that what you want? I don't want to hear you gripe that the Republican establishment would be to blame, or that a biased media would derail a Trump campaign. I don't want to hear that Republican money would be denied to a Trump campaign. None of those excuses will stand up to scrutiny. Trump has done nothing to win over the Republican Party. We all know that the media hates Republicans, and it is generally worth 3 to 6%, having the media on the Democrats' side. That has always been the case. This is no different. Trump has sneered at the thought of raising money for a campaign. He's said frankly stupid things about Super PACs and campaign finance laws. Mitch McConnell -- the target of so much hatred from the Tea Party -- has done more for campaign finance law freedom (and, frankly for Tea Party Republicans vis-Ã -vis the Party) than Trump will ever know. McConnell has forgotten more law than Trump will ever understand.
So, Trump fans; what say you?
12/11/15, 9:46 PM
Chuck said...
So in other words, after Trump has built “The Wall” into a do-or-die issue for himself, we Republicans will sooner or later have to give up something consequential and perhaps even several consequential things, in order for Trump to get what he can claim as a victory with His Wall.
No, Trump would be offering a lifeline to select Dems who were elected as moderates; potentially a centrist governing coalition, owing him for delivering more than, and providing a refuge from, Pelosi and the Dem crazies.
Back when everyone was asking whether the Republicans could splinter in 2016, this is why instead I thought it was much more likely the Democrats would tear themselves apart.
Chuck said...
"I am afraid you are mistaking me for someone who has an interest in fair treatment of Donald Trump. I'm not your guy. I am interested in smearing him, hurting him and prejudicing people against him."
When we defeat an Enemy, we tend to their wounded and treat captives humanely. But traitors? Traitors we hang.
CNN reports that the Trump administration is preparing a draft proclamation to declare a national emergency on the southern border that identifies $7+ billion for the border wall.
Folded like a cheap suit, right Vicki?
Lumping it, right Inga?
CNN reports that the Trump administration is preparing a draft proclamation to declare a national emergency on the southern border that identifies $7+ billion for the border wall.
Hope so, but wait for confirmation. Might be Trump trolling CNN, again.
Blogger Fen said...
Chuck said...
"I am afraid you are mistaking me for someone who has an interest in fair treatment of Donald Trump. I'm not your guy. I am interested in smearing him, hurting him and prejudicing people against him."
When we defeat an Enemy, we tend to their wounded and treat captives humanely. But traitors? Traitors we hang.
I’m okay. I don’t have three or four dozen federal prosecutors investigating me. My personal attorney and my accountant are not cooperating federal witnesses.
Senate Minority Leader Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.) blocked a request to pay the Coast Guard on Thursday after Republicans refused to also open the rest of the federal government. Sen. John Kennedy (R-La.) tried to take up legislation to pay the Coast Guard, which is part of the Department of Homeland Security.
#DurbinCuckhoster Chuck: "I’m okay. I don’t have three or four dozen federal prosecutors investigating me. My personal attorney and my accountant are not cooperating federal witnesses."
Why would the democrat coup-meisters go to trouble of framing a strong ally of the dems/left like Chuck?
The dems never look a cuck-surrender-monkey in the mouth.
LLR Chuck: "...we republicans..."
LOLOLOL
LLR Chuck, going to bat once again for the honor of his beloved dems is now literally asserting that we could have a wall if Trump would just get out of the way of those honorable strong-border enforcement dems and their eastablishment republican housepets!!
Next up for Chuck: McCain really wanted to get rid of obamacare, Anna Navarro is the truest of the trucon conservatives, and Lawrence O'Donnell is "masterful"!!!
LOLOLOL
I like how the president is appropriating $2 billion more than he originally asked for, just to make sure that it is able to withstand the next Democrat party funded migrant caravan. That money will have to come out of the fund to pay for abortions in other countries, the fund to allow Democrat party members to use US military aircraft as their own private air taxi, and the fund that pays off the mistresses and whores of our elected representatives.
Chuck is playing Banquo's Ghost to Meade's Macbeth, as the uninvited guest. But I would not dream of casting Althouse as Lady Macbeth.
Yes the 4.6 million slap handed to skadden arps, so far no action. Against mercury partners or podesta.
Some reddit guy said:
Great Moments in Trump History: Trump put up a 50ft flag pole at Mir-a-Lago even though 30 foot is the max allowed. Trump donated the total fines, $120,000, to veterans orgs and agreed to a 30ft pole. The city agreed. Trump built a 20ft high grassy hill and put a 30ft pole on top of it! MADMAN!!
I’m okay. I don’t have three or four dozen federal prosecutors investigating me. My personal attorney and my accountant are not cooperating federal witnesses.
Yet.
Why is Chuck still here?
And you're right.(not chuck. who is almost always wrong) By delaying the SOTU until after the shutdown is over Trump is placing th onus of ending the shutdown right in Pelosis' lap. The dems now own the shutdown.
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